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DEFEND The Mario Galaxy Movie AT ALL COSTS · Critical Error

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  The Super Mario Galaxy movie is thin,
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  boring, and that Yoshi voice isn't even
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  good. It doesn't even sound like Yoshi.
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  It sounds like a guy just Yoshi. That's
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  all. That's that's
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  >> not trying to be a good movie.
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  >> A critical error is an error which the
• 0:15
  OS cannot reasonably ignore. Sh. Jake
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  Steinberg is a streamer, writer, and
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  certified yapper. Complimentary. Peter
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  Hunt
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  tech is a YouTuber, journalist, and
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  certified yapper. Derogatory. These are
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  the things they cannot reasonably
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  ignore.
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  >> The day before the Super Mario Galaxy
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  movie is released unto theaters. Reviews
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  hit the internet. We've got The
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  Guardian, The Times, all of these
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  outlets are weighing in on the Mario
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  Galaxy movie and they all agree it is
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  bad. They say
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  >> yes. Really, really bad. And I think
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  there was a there was this immediate
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  defensive response from video game
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  players, from Nintendo YouTubers, from
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  anyone who was really invested in this
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  movie, fans of the first one that
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  immediately started to cry. The critics
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  don't get it. This is a movie for the
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  fans. This is a movie for me. I am not
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  worried. I am going to very dramatically
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  tweet about these reviews and how not
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  worried I am about them. Uh, but I am I
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  the the the movie is definitely this
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  movie that I have not seen yet is
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  definitely actually good. The critics
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  don't get it. What is going on? What is
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  going on in this relationship between
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  the defender of the Mario movie online
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  and the critic who is just who is just
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  doing their job and saying that they
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  don't think this movie is is very good.
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  So, something interesting here is that
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  like I think uh what a lot of people who
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  maybe enjoy video games are experiencing
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  right now is what it's like for uh I
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  can't believe I'm defending the
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  integrity of film reviews, but like of
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  of what it's like when maybe a more
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  serious industry uh reckons with uh
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  something that's mid, something that's
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  not very good. Uh whereas in the games
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  industry, in games media, like if
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  Mario's in it, it's getting a seven out
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  of ten minimum. Do you know what I mean?
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  Like seven out of ten minimum. Even with
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  games that people like [ __ ] hated.
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  Like I think about the Mario Tennis
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  Fever like kind of got eviscerated in
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  reviews. Seven out of 10. But that's the
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  worst it could possibly be despite the
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  fact. Yeah. Go ahead. What's it?
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  >> No, that's I think that's a really
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  strong point. You're right. because
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  there is this level of buyin that is
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  present from the video game player by
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  virtue of it being Mario. And I think
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  that when people say things like it's
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  for the fans and the critics don't get
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  it, it's like don't you you don't have
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  the same level of buyin that I have. And
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  that is so critical to um to enjoying
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  the movie. So, I kind of thought I mean
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  I really like that point, but I kind of
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  I kind of thought that we could just
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  kind of um go through and address the
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  language and the argumentation that
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  people online are using to defend this
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  movie that by and large people um have
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  not seen and just kind of uh in a in a
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  in a close reading way break down what's
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  going on here. Yeah, you've got one.
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  Yeah. I will I would like to interrupt
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  you and say uh if you all are worried
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  that we haven't seen the Mario movie, uh
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  I would like to to uh uh assu I want I
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  want to quell your fears. All right,
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  Jake and I did the [ __ ] homework. I
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  wasn't going to see this garbage ass
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  [ __ ] movie. Uh but I did it for you. I
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  stayed up until 12:01 in the morning and
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  I went to my local AMC to see the movie.
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  I saw it. Jake saw it this morning. Uh,
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  we actually have a full spoiler
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  discussion on our Patreon for members of
• 3:40
  the critical error nation. That's
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  patreon.com/critical
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  error if you're interested in that. Uh,
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  we got done recording it and I looked at
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  Jake and I was like honestly maybe one
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  of the best discussions we've ever had
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  and I think we've had quite a few of
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  them.
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  >> Um, yeah. So, if you're interested in
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  like more of our like our like actual
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  thoughts about the movie, that's all
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  there. But I want to just say we've seen
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  it. We've seen it. We know. We know. We
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  know the answer.
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  >> I was there. I had the perfect viewing
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  experience. So, it was 8:00 in the
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  morning. The theater was mine and mine
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  alone.
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  So, I was I was focused. Um,
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  >> and I saw it in a pack in a pack theater
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  at midnight next to my wife, someone who
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  does not give a [ __ ]
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  >> Uh, yeah. And we both saw this
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  absolutely terrible movie. Uh, so, but
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  again, patreon.com/critical error to um
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  listen to our full spoiler cast about
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  the movie itself.
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  >> Um, okay. So,
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  >> right from the top, we kind of we kind
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  of brought this up earlier, but the um
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  the critics just don't get it. It's
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  funny. We were talking about a very
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  similar thing on the podcast last week
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  in regards to the Crimson Desert video
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  game, The Critics Don't Get It. And now
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  I think I loved how you set this up
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  already, the having to face the music in
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  terms of we are talking about people who
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  have long and storied careers being film
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  critics and know exactly what they are
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  doing. Yes, there is a there is a form
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  and a structure. There is confidence
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  here and they are not at all afraid of
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  these nerds complaining on the internet.
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  So you found these incredibly powerful
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  and scathing reviews get posted online
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  that were truly hilarious. You know what
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  I mean? There were there were people
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  were not afraid to look at this big
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  budget Mario product with Shagarro
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  Miiamoto at the helm and say, you know,
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  the Guardian said, "I think this is
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  worse than AI." Another outlet said, "Is
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  this the end of cinema?" I think that
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  was the Times. uh just like very like
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  funny bold statements that you could
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  never see in the games.
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  >> I was going to say could you imagine if
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  Mario Wonder was like really bad? I
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  didn't like it. But like let's say that
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  was the general consensus of like of
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  like this is not a very good video game.
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  >> Wow. You didn't like Mario Wonder? I
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  liked Mario Wonder.
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  >> Uh I played these games with my wife and
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  the two of us were like nah.
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  >> Easy then. Easy.
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  >> So we like let's say let's say like the
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  game was bad and like that was the
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  general consensus.
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  >> Okay. No [ __ ] shot
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  are the reviews coming out for Mario
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  Wonder the same way that these reviews
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  for this movie have come out.
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  >> Of course not. And I think it is because
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  exactly what you said like uh uh film
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  critics are not afraid of their
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  audiences and and there like that's a
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  whole other discussion but like and
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  there's there's multiple layers to it as
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  well but like I I just don't think that
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  the culture surrounding film criticism
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  and and film reviews is the same at all
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  with the culture surrounding video game
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  reviews. And it's it's very easy to see
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  how this happens just because the the
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  film critic is of course judging the
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  movie in front of them. Whereas almost
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  every positive review from a gamer has
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  this this level of I Mario is so
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  important to me. So to see Mario in the
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  movie theater as a legitimate like this
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  filled me with emotion because of my
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  pre-existing relationship with Mario
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  like a positive review of this movie
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  doesn't exist without that I don't
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  think. So
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  >> no no
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  >> just just to kind of Yeah. Please,
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  >> if you if you swapped it, right, and and
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  like if you swapped it for something
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  that uh is a generic uh new IP,
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  >> right? If you watched this movie, you
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  would be like, "This was nothing."
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  >> This was absolutely nothing.
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  >> Yes.
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  >> Um early on in the movie, just to use
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  something from the text as an example,
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  just so in case somebody listening to
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  this is, I don't I don't want to know
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  anything about the Mario movie, I'm
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  sorry. It's happening right now. Very
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  early on in the movie, Mario gives
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  Princess Peach a gift. She opens it and
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  it is of course her signature parasol.
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  And now it's like none of us watching
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  the movie questions why that is the gift
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  because we know this is something that
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  Peach has. So when she uses it, how she
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  uses it, all of this stuff is um feeding
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  a level of buyin and understanding that
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  was created outside of the movie. So
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  like why did Mario choose to get
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  Princess Peach and Umbrella? That is not
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  a question that should occur to us. But
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  like you said, if this was not an IP, if
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  this was something new and this
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  character got Princess Peach a
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  stopwatch, we would all be going,
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  >> it's like, sure, how come? Like, what?
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  Why?
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  >> You you know, but we don't we don't
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  question even even though it is just as
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  random, we do not question the
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  deployment of the umbrella here. So, um,
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  so to to kind of bring things back, so
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  when when I see and I saw this a lot
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  yesterday, critics just don't get it. I
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  think what's happening there is that the
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  the the gamer is saying these reviews
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  don't match my experience because I
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  think that people in video games don't
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  understand what reviews are for because
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  largely a lot of people in video games
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  who are writing reviews maybe don't even
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  know what reviews are for. So it is this
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  muddied message. But I think that when
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  when fans look at look at the reviews
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  and why they have to have a reaction to
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  the the reviews being negative. They
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  have to have an explanation for why that
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  is. But the misalignment I think is in
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  that fans are answering this question of
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  did I enjoy watching Mario do the tasks
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  in front of him whereas the critics are
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  asking what does each scene do beyond
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  completing a task. What I found what I
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  found really interesting was um you know
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  most of most of the reviews that went up
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  were from you know uh traditional
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  publications that do film reviews but
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  reading the uh reviews of the movie from
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  more traditional games media sites has
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  been kind of interesting um where to
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  like what you're talking about like it
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  seems like a lot of these games media
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  reviewers like these video game
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  reviewers reviewed this movie in a way
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  that you would review a video game which
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  is really bizarre because like there's
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  just a lot of stuff that doesn't
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  translate, right? It's exactly what you
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  said. Like a film critic is like looking
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  at these the this movie and being like,
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  "Okay, the characters, do these
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  characters have meaningful arcs? Okay,
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  like the these scenes, is there like the
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  is there momentum between them? Is there
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  a cohesion to all of this?" Whereas like
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  some of these publications that are, you
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  know, traditional games media sites are
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  are saying like, "I liked it because
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  Mario was in it and we all know Mario
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  and it's like
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  >> and the joy of seeing Mario simply do,
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  >> right? and the and the the the joy of
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  seeing references. I know who Fox Mloud
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  is. I know who, you know, other
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  references are. And it's like because
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  that's that's my that's where I come
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  from. This is this is like something
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  I've been playing since I was a kid, you
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  know, and and I think film critics just
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  don't give a [ __ ]
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  >> Oh, no. Of course. But it's also the the
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  like there is a way to reveal Fox being
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  in this movie that has integrity to the
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  movie itself that makes the reveal
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  important. But the movie the movie
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  doesn't invest in kind of like
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  >> you needing a character, building up who
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  this person might be and then revealing
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  them. Instead, it wants the meta stuff
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  to do all of the work.
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  >> Yes. That's how all of the all of the
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  like additional characters are uh like
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  like Yoshi and Fox and and all these
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  people like have nothing to do like
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  Luigi have anything to do in this movie.
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  like like there's there's it is all
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  reliant on you looking at it and going
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  like, "Oh my gosh, Yoshi's on the big
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  screen.
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  >> Yoshi's here." And it's like,
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  >> so you can we need
• 11:02
  >> you can look at the um the utility that
• 11:05
  each character provides as like literal
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  utility as opposed to a new perspective
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  or like new meaning that they add. So
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  like Fox's character, who he is, is not
• 11:15
  important to the movie at all. It
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  doesn't change anything. He doesn't
• 11:19
  offer anything to the group. All he
• 11:21
  offers is functionality. The the ability
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  to pilot a spacecraft. That is it. That
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  it is. You could replace him with
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  anyone, anything, any attitude, any
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  perspective. Nothing changes. Yeah.
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  >> So, is it just that people are seeing
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  this and being like, I know what this
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  is, and I already know that I'm going to
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  like this because I'm just a fan. And
• 11:40
  that's okay to just be a fan of things,
• 11:42
  right? Like, I could say pretty
• 11:44
  reasonably, I haven't played it yet, but
• 11:46
  I'm probably going to like Resident Evil
• 11:48
  Reququum cuz I'm just a fan. I just am a
• 11:50
  big fan of Resident Evil games. So, but
• 11:52
  what like what is it though about this
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  movie specifically that is causing such
• 11:56
  a uh uh
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  push back to all these reviews online?
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  Is it is this just really the onetwo
• 12:03
  punch, the culmination of the last two
• 12:04
  episodes we've done of it's Nintendo
• 12:06
  adults and it's people saying like and
• 12:08
  they just don't get why we love this.
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  >> Well, yes. And I think it's also just a
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  complete misunderstanding of what
• 12:14
  reviews are because people I saw this
• 12:16
  comment a lot online which was um the
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  reviews are going to be proven wrong
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  because this movie is going to make so
• 12:23
  much money that and I saw a lot of
• 12:25
  people so like reviews went up and like
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  the you know the review aggregate
• 12:29
  Twitter posters or whatever are saying
• 12:30
  like okay the Guardian gave it zero out
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  of five you know the times whatever
• 12:34
  whatever whatever and you see it all
• 12:36
  like in in the way that we normally see
• 12:37
  like you know game review scores. and
• 12:40
  everything. And then there was like a
• 12:42
  bunch of people, even these aggregate
• 12:43
  reviewers as well, not reviewers, but
• 12:45
  these like aggregate posters as well
• 12:46
  were being like, "But you got to
• 12:48
  remember
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  the Mario Bros. movie, the first one,
• 12:52
  also scored like this." But look at that
• 12:55
  audience score, baby.
• 12:56
  >> Exactly.
• 12:57
  >> Look at that audience. And what is going
• 12:58
  on there is that um the content creators
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  and the YouTubers and all of these
• 13:02
  people, they think that a that reviews
• 13:06
  are a verdict on enjoyment whereas
• 13:08
  reviews are actually an analysis of
• 13:10
  construction and they're not thinking
• 13:13
  about the construction of like if they
• 13:15
  enjoyed something there is no me there
• 13:18
  is no like could you imagine it being
• 13:21
  done better. It's like, well, no, that's
• 13:23
  I'm not interested in that because I I
• 13:26
  got something out of this because I like
• 13:27
  Mario and I want to see him jump. A real
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  thing I saw people tweeting yesterday.
• 13:31
  >> Um
• 13:32
  >> and that's and that's enough. And it's
• 13:34
  like the the kind of um
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  >> being able to criticize it and imagine
• 13:39
  how something maybe would have been more
• 13:41
  effective or more powerful is just a
• 13:43
  completely lost practice on these people
• 13:45
  even though that's what the job is.
• 13:47
  Because what's so what's so frustrating
• 13:48
  about having this sort of conversation
• 13:49
  though too is it's like no no you can
• 13:51
  like the movie and and you can enjoy it
• 13:54
  like like there's nothing wrong with
• 13:55
  enjoying this movie and liking seeing
• 13:57
  Mario Jump and like hearing the music
• 13:59
  and getting hit with all that nostalgia
• 14:00
  being like oh this is the underwater
• 14:02
  theme from Mario 2 or whatever. I don't
• 14:04
  know. Uh, like you can have all of those
• 14:06
  reactions and stuff, but I think what it
• 14:07
  is important to recognize is like to
• 14:10
  have this moment of like, okay, but like
• 14:13
  is it is this just happening because I
• 14:15
  have nostalgia for this and because I am
• 14:16
  a fan of Mario or am I are there other
• 14:20
  reasons why I'm liking this movie? And
• 14:21
  can we identify why the movie is good?
• 14:23
  And I think largely, if I had to guess,
• 14:25
  if you were to sit down and have like a
• 14:27
  real like completely honest conversation
• 14:28
  with someone like this, I think that
• 14:30
  identifying like what works about the
• 14:32
  movie is is incredibly thin and shallow
• 14:35
  because the the movie is incredibly thin
• 14:36
  and shallow, you know? So like you I
• 14:37
  don't think that uh uh
• 14:40
  I think that these conversations are are
• 14:42
  maybe not coming from the the same
• 14:44
  place, you know what I mean?
• 14:46
  >> No, of course. because it's it's this
• 14:47
  thing where you you often see this
• 14:49
  refrain online from fans where it's like
• 14:51
  oh um hearing this song made me feel a
• 14:54
  certain way and I'm like okay but is
• 14:57
  that a compliment to the movie right
• 14:59
  it's like that's the thing is is like
• 15:01
  hearing the orchestral versions of these
• 15:03
  songs is like wow like I we we said this
• 15:06
  in the the bonus episode you know
• 15:07
  patreon.com/critical error like hearing
• 15:09
  the music I was like damn Mario's got
• 15:11
  some good tracks in there but also like
• 15:14
  that's not a testament to the movie
• 15:16
  that's a testament into Super Mario
• 15:17
  World, you know what I mean? In the same
• 15:18
  way where if it was like uh if all the
• 15:20
  music was done by Fallout Boy, I'd be
• 15:22
  like, "Dang, Fall Boyy's got some
• 15:23
  bangers." But it's not like it's not
• 15:25
  like the movie did that. It's it's like
• 15:26
  this is just, you know, from something
• 15:28
  that I like already. Is there a version
• 15:31
  of the movie that could deploy a song in
• 15:34
  a way that is more or less effective? Or
• 15:37
  is the effectiveness of the song always
• 15:40
  the same? I I have to imagine that there
• 15:43
  is a spectrum there that the sequencing
• 15:46
  of the movie can pull more out of you
• 15:48
  depending on how uh emotionally resolute
• 15:51
  it is. Yes. And it's it's kind of like a
• 15:54
  it's kind of like a just kind of a this
• 15:57
  like this weird conversation I guess
• 15:59
  because now I'm thinking about um
• 16:02
  another I think one of the the more
• 16:04
  common refrains about this movie too is
• 16:06
  like why are you looking for this to be
• 16:09
  good?
• 16:09
  >> Yes. It is a
• 16:11
  >> it's a it's a kids movie. It's a kids
• 16:13
  movie.
• 16:14
  >> And um I think like the second you
• 16:17
  >> This is such a persistent bad argument
• 16:20
  because I just think if you look at any
• 16:22
  kids movie
• 16:23
  >> that's good. Why can't this also be
• 16:27
  good? Is it worse? Because here's the
• 16:29
  thing and this this comes up a lot in
• 16:31
  video game stories as well. Um uh where
• 16:34
  people are like, "Well, it's a video
• 16:35
  game so it's not it's not going to have
• 16:36
  a good story." And it's like correct. uh
• 16:38
  not correct, but it's it's like, okay,
• 16:40
  by that logic though, if it had a great
• 16:42
  story, would you be like, well, the
• 16:44
  story doesn't matter? No, of course not.
• 16:46
  Of course not. So, it's it's the same
• 16:48
  thing where it's like, why are you
• 16:49
  expecting this children's movie to be
• 16:50
  good? What were you expecting from this?
• 16:52
  I'm not saying it needed to be, you
• 16:54
  know, Shakespeare,
• 16:56
  but like
• 16:58
  The Iron Giant,
• 17:01
  Tangled.
• 17:02
  There's great children's movies, you
• 17:04
  know what I mean? That that have like
• 17:06
  incredible characters and incredible
• 17:08
  narratives and stuff like that that mean
• 17:09
  something that you can watch as a kid
• 17:12
  and get something out of and also be
• 17:14
  able to analyze and discuss and talk
• 17:15
  about.
• 17:16
  >> And we talk about this at length in our
• 17:17
  spoiler discussion, but I actually think
• 17:18
  that Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
• 17:20
  is such a good counter example. 100%
• 17:22
  >> because you're you're dealing with a
• 17:23
  movie that is just outright it's for
• 17:27
  kids, it's for the fans, and it is also
• 17:30
  just kind of like a a general audience
• 17:32
  pop movie. And yet it still very clearly
• 17:36
  builds um an internal conflict, a
• 17:39
  thematic argument and a finale that
• 17:42
  resolves both um mechanically and
• 17:44
  emotionally. It has the the kind of uh
• 17:48
  materially sequenced elements of film
• 17:52
  that you don't get to excuse weak
• 17:55
  construction because the target audience
• 17:57
  is children. Instead, when you are
• 18:00
  writing a movie for younger audiences,
• 18:03
  all that really is demanding of you is
• 18:05
  that you raise the bar for clarity.
• 18:07
  >> Yes.
• 18:08
  >> Um it doesn't mean that you make
• 18:09
  something illeible and stupid,
• 18:12
  >> right? cuz it's like like okay, Finding
• 18:14
  Nemo. Finding Nemo is a great movie and
• 18:16
  it's a great children's movie and it
• 18:18
  also holds up if you watch it as an
• 18:19
  adult. Like it's great. It's really
• 18:21
  really good, but like
• 18:23
  >> it it is not
• 18:25
  you just you wouldn't be like, "Oh,
• 18:27
  well, like it didn't like none of that
• 18:28
  mattered because it's a kids movie." Cuz
• 18:30
  it it like kids are able to discern what
• 18:32
  is good and what is not good. You know
• 18:34
  what I'm saying? Like I have I have a
• 18:35
  nephew who uh like locks in for some
• 18:38
  stuff and just doesn't give a [ __ ] about
• 18:40
  other stuff, you know? And I think it
• 18:42
  all comes down to like
• 18:44
  >> is this resonating? And I don't know if
• 18:46
  kids necessarily if it resonates for
• 18:47
  them in the same way, right? Um but I I
• 18:52
  think that they are able to tell a a
• 18:53
  difference in in quality.
• 18:55
  >> No, of course. And I think like even
• 18:57
  comparing these movies to something like
• 18:59
  the Sonic the Hedgehog movies.
• 19:00
  >> Sure.
• 19:01
  >> I think that Mario objectively as a
• 19:04
  character simply has more motion than
• 19:06
  Sonic.
• 19:07
  >> Oh yeah. Like outside of outside of
• 19:09
  these movies, is that what you mean?
• 19:11
  100%.
• 19:11
  >> Yeah. So, I think when you look at a
• 19:14
  Mario movie and you look at a Sonic
• 19:15
  movie and you go, "Oh, the Mario movie
• 19:17
  is much bigger than the Sonic movies,"
• 19:19
  that's not surprising. But I do think
• 19:22
  that what the Sonic movies have done
• 19:24
  relative to their characters popularity
• 19:26
  and success maybe outsizes the
• 19:29
  expectation of we all expected the Mario
• 19:31
  movie to be the biggest thing in the
• 19:32
  world. And I think the Sonic movies have
• 19:35
  actually done something for that
• 19:37
  character to bring that character to a
• 19:40
  new young audience that maybe was not
• 19:42
  previously super attached to him. And I
• 19:44
  think the reason for that is is because
• 19:47
  the those films largely to varying
• 19:50
  degrees of success earn their moments
• 19:52
  and are not just borrowing them from you
• 19:55
  already caring about Mario and Peach and
• 19:57
  Donkey Kong.
• 19:58
  >> I I think what you're saying here uh
• 20:01
  correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying
• 20:03
  that like the Sonic movies made kids
• 20:05
  Sonic fans? The Mario movie is not going
• 20:08
  to make a kid a Mario fan. They have to
• 20:10
  already be a Mario fan.
• 20:12
  >> Kind of, right? I mean,
• 20:14
  >> pretty pretty much. And I think like um
• 20:18
  you know, being attached to a sweet
• 20:21
  cartoon character like Mario I think is
• 20:24
  very easy to do. I I I like
• 20:28
  >> I think grading this movie on the scale
• 20:32
  of if I bring in a six-year-old and the
• 20:35
  six-year-old goes then that means it's
• 20:38
  good is maybe not like what are we doing
• 20:40
  at that point?
• 20:41
  >> Well, cuz right and then it's it's just
• 20:42
  like okay well if that's the metric
• 20:45
  guys.
• 20:46
  >> Yeah.
• 20:47
  >> Like then I think I think maybe we've
• 20:50
  we've found our answer right.
• 20:52
  >> And it's okay. It's okay if you simply
• 20:54
  do not care about
• 20:57
  film criticism. That's okay. That's also
• 20:59
  an option.
• 21:00
  >> I think I think the the the my takeaway
• 21:02
  from this and like the thing that like I
• 21:04
  want to like really stress and emphasize
• 21:05
  is like you don't have to care about
• 21:09
  what critics say.
• 21:10
  >> In fact, like more power to you if you
• 21:13
  don't like like the things you like,
• 21:15
  don't like the things you don't. Like
• 21:16
  it's all good. Um, I don't really like
• 21:20
  caviar and that's supposed to be like
• 21:21
  one of the most like highbrow foods
• 21:23
  ever, right? Like whatever. I don't
• 21:25
  care. Um, but like who cares? You know
• 21:27
  what I'm saying? Like like just if you
• 21:29
  like the thing you like, it's fine. But
• 21:30
  it's interesting that like there is just
• 21:32
  this push back about like the critics
• 21:33
  actually don't get it. But I get it. And
• 21:36
  what this movie actually is is secretly
• 21:40
  an incredible film. And it's like I
• 21:42
  think it's okay for us to recognize that
• 21:44
  like you can like something and
• 21:45
  understand at the same time that it is
• 21:47
  not this like uh incredible like high
• 21:50
  piece of art. You know, something we
• 21:52
  talked about in the bonus episode is um
• 21:55
  I love Taco Bell and I also love
• 21:57
  authentic Mexican cuisine. And I think
• 21:59
  it's important for me to recognize that
• 22:01
  when I'm eating Taco Bell, I'm not
• 22:03
  having authentic Mexican cuisine.
• 22:06
  >> But I can still like them both and like
• 22:08
  that they do different things,
• 22:09
  >> right? It's the idea of like media diet
• 22:11
  that you you've talked about a lot.
• 22:13
  >> Of course. Of course. But I I think like
• 22:17
  let's let's really cut in here.
• 22:20
  This kind of person just just like
• 22:22
  losing it over the Mario movie critic
• 22:26
  reviews online.
• 22:29
  How much of this is a grift for? Because
• 22:32
  >> Yeah. You know, that's actually an
• 22:34
  interesting
• 22:35
  thing to bring up because we, you know,
• 22:37
  we talk about like the idea of like
• 22:39
  YouTube grifters and I think when we
• 22:40
  think about that, we see a very specific
• 22:42
  type of of like uh content creator,
• 22:46
  right? Um pedalling outrage just to be
• 22:49
  outraged. And usually like when we think
• 22:51
  about like grifters, we're thinking
• 22:52
  about people who are mad about you
• 22:54
  pronouns in RPGs and and whatever um and
• 22:58
  black people existing in video games,
• 23:00
  which obviously these people are
• 23:01
  completely unserious and and should not
• 23:03
  be [ __ ] thought about at all. But
• 23:06
  there is this other sort of grift,
• 23:08
  right, where it's like
• 23:10
  something we talked a little bit about
• 23:11
  last week is like, "No, no, don't listen
• 23:13
  to anyone else. You got to listen to me.
• 23:14
  You got to listen to me about all this.
• 23:16
  Don't listen to the [ __ ] film
• 23:17
  critics. Mario's back, baby, and this
• 23:20
  movie is better than ever. Like, what
• 23:23
  are you like, but what are why what is
• 23:24
  the position that you're coming from?
• 23:26
  And why are you saying this?
• 23:28
  >> And you have to wonder when I say it's a
• 23:30
  grift, I don't mean that there's
• 23:31
  somebody kind of like behind the scenes
• 23:33
  being like, "Oh, I'm lying to manipulate
• 23:36
  all of these people." Well, I think
• 23:37
  maybe it's it's simply you are rewarded
• 23:41
  for having this perspective that is um
• 23:45
  incurious and undefined and completely
• 23:48
  governed by whatever vibes and whims uh
• 23:52
  you decide are going to you know you
• 23:54
  have a you have a captive audience of um
• 23:57
  hardcore Nintendo fans or Mario fans or
• 24:00
  whatever it is and you're just kind of
• 24:01
  telling them what they want to hear.
• 24:03
  >> Yeah. Yes. So,
• 24:05
  >> cuz I think in like to think about the
• 24:07
  idea of what Nintendo fans want to hear,
• 24:09
  I think they are looking for more of
• 24:10
  that like uh unwavering positivity about
• 24:13
  like the product about the brand, you
• 24:16
  know? Um, and so I think that instead of
• 24:20
  pedalling like outrage or whatever like
• 24:22
  we would associate with like other weird
• 24:25
  like conservative grifters, I think they
• 24:27
  are pedalling like uh unflinching brand
• 24:31
  loyalty, you know, which I think is an
• 24:34
  interesting sort of like uh opposite
• 24:37
  side of of the idea of like the grifter,
• 24:41
  you know.
• 24:41
  >> Right. Right. So I don't know. No, I
• 24:44
  think sometimes it's um
• 24:46
  it just once again it is these these
• 24:49
  content creators find themselves kind of
• 24:52
  cosplaying or pretending to be these
• 24:55
  like truth to power figures in the
• 24:58
  community who are saying the truth and
• 25:01
  who are who are bucking the conservative
• 25:04
  tradition of what all of these um
• 25:07
  outofouch film critics are saying and
• 25:10
  it's like no I get you get me but um I
• 25:13
  don't No, I I think it's just kind of
• 25:14
  clear to me that these people are less
• 25:16
  and less even in conversation with um
• 25:20
  critics, particularly film critics to
• 25:22
  begin with. It's just like you are
• 25:24
  >> not Yeah. not you're just not performing
• 25:26
  the same function. And um you can nobody
• 25:30
  can take away your enjoyment of going to
• 25:34
  the Mario movie and having a good time.
• 25:37
  But again, I just like does is that
• 25:40
  enough evidence that
• 25:43
  it was it was well constructed? You know
• 25:45
  what I mean? Is that like is that all it
• 25:47
  takes? And I think a lot of people
• 25:49
  simply do believe that. It's like, oh my
• 25:51
  god, I was I was made to feel empathy
• 25:54
  because I was made to feel empathy
• 25:56
  because I saw a dog get hurt. That means
• 25:59
  it's that means it is well constructed
• 26:01
  because I had I had the feeling.
• 26:03
  >> So, I must attest to having had that
• 26:06
  feeling. and complement the work that it
• 26:08
  came from because the first act of
• 26:11
  expedition 33 made me feel something
• 26:13
  that means it must be well constructed
• 26:18
  and there's just like no like
• 26:20
  examination of well why did I feel that
• 26:22
  way
• 26:22
  >> and what is it doing because it's it's
• 26:25
  like uh what's interesting is you are
• 26:28
  beginning to identify when you're having
• 26:30
  that feeling and being like oh like this
• 26:31
  made me feel something so it's well
• 26:33
  constructed you're beginning to have the
• 26:35
  the like origin of critical analysis,
• 26:38
  >> right? Because I think critical analysis
• 26:40
  comes from um explaining a feeling and
• 26:43
  trying to uh get to the bottom of why
• 26:46
  did I feel this way
• 26:47
  >> and to begin that journey and that that
• 26:51
  dissection you have to feel something
• 26:54
  >> but you can't that's not the end goal
• 26:57
  right the end I think the end for a lot
• 26:58
  of people uh uh who sort of like
• 27:00
  subscribe to this is just like I felt
• 27:02
  something so it is good but it's it's
• 27:04
  not quite there it's like well why did I
• 27:06
  feel that and and am Am I able to be
• 27:09
  manipulated into feeling something good?
• 27:11
  And is, if I'm a if I'm a lifelong Mario
• 27:13
  fan, is hearing the like Mario Odyssey
• 27:16
  theme or whatever the [ __ ] was going on
• 27:18
  in that movie enough to make me feel
• 27:21
  something? And if that's true, then like
• 27:23
  what is going on here?
• 27:25
  >> And I I really find that the kind of uh
• 27:28
  compliments that are paid to the movie
• 27:30
  or things like this from this crowd are
• 27:33
  so focused on uh like screenshots.
• 27:37
  They're focused on these individual
• 27:39
  moments this thing and it's and it's
• 27:41
  never focused on how an idea builds or
• 27:44
  like this happened then this happened
• 27:45
  then this happened and that made me that
• 27:48
  boom like I was there right you know
• 27:50
  what else I I find to be kind of
• 27:51
  interesting is like so much of this
• 27:53
  argument is also based on like the
• 27:54
  legitimacy of film of becoming a big
• 27:58
  budget movie like uh I was reading a
• 28:00
  review that was saying something to the
• 28:02
  effect of like I just couldn't believe
• 28:04
  that Fox Mloud was in this big budget
• 28:07
  production production and it's like who
• 28:10
  like that's not even the movie. You know
• 28:11
  what I mean? Like like this is just like
• 28:13
  fully not related to looking at this
• 28:16
  piece of art. This is just like this
• 28:18
  outside feeling of like I know what this
• 28:20
  character is and he's now somehow more
• 28:23
  legitimate because he has graced the
• 28:25
  silver screen.
• 28:26
  >> Is he used well in the movie or is he
• 28:28
  used poorly in the movie? It actually
• 28:29
  doesn't matter. The fact that he's the
• 28:31
  fact that he's in the movie has the
• 28:32
  intended effect. And um and it's funny.
• 28:34
  It's like, you know, I'm surprised we
• 28:37
  haven't even brought this up yet, but uh
• 28:40
  you have to judge the movie by what it's
• 28:42
  trying to be.
• 28:44
  It's not trying to be the kind of movie
• 28:46
  that you guys want it to be. It's trying
• 28:49
  to be something else. And I don't
• 28:50
  >> Yeah, go ahead.
• 28:52
  >> What What is this saying? What is this?
• 28:55
  >> You know what's so funny?
• 28:57
  >> What? No one expected this to be like
• 29:01
  like a like a an art house film. You
• 29:04
  know what I mean? Like like when people
• 29:05
  say like well like it's not trying to be
• 29:07
  this. It's like no no no. Like the
• 29:10
  person who was reviewing this thing for
• 29:12
  the times was not like m yes time to go
• 29:15
  see the next winner from the Ken's Film
• 29:18
  Festival. Like of course they weren't.
• 29:19
  They were like I'm going to go see that
• 29:21
  animated kids movie, right? The the new
• 29:23
  Mario movie. And then like they just sat
• 29:25
  there and had to watch everything I had
• 29:26
  to watch like and uh at least they had
• 29:30
  the the distraction where they were able
• 29:31
  to take notes. I had to just sit there
• 29:33
  and [ __ ] watch it.
• 29:34
  >> Let me let me tell you this was just
• 29:36
  this was just a random version. So
• 29:37
  apologies, but let me give you an actual
• 29:40
  from the horse's mouth response on this.
• 29:42
  >> Oh my gosh. Okay.
• 29:43
  >> Okay. My only problem is people
• 29:45
  expecting Pixar level storytelling from
• 29:47
  the franchise known for having no story.
• 29:50
  Like you can not like it, sure, but
• 29:51
  don't judge it for what it clearly has
• 29:53
  no interest in be in in being. Like
• 29:58
  that's like evaluating 21 Jump Street as
• 30:00
  a drama.
• 30:03
  >> Uh it's not it's not it's not there
• 30:06
  because what's interesting about that is
• 30:07
  uh you wouldn't evaluate 21 Jump Street
• 30:09
  as a drama. You could, I suppose. Um and
• 30:12
  if but if it holds up to like having
• 30:14
  solid characters with well-acted scenes,
• 30:16
  then hey, congratulations. you have a
• 30:17
  good drama regardless of if there's
• 30:19
  comedy in it or not. But also, it's like
• 30:21
  that's it's just like not not the
• 30:22
  argument. But also, the reason that we
• 30:24
  don't judge 21 Jump Street as a drama is
• 30:27
  not because before the movie somebody
• 30:28
  takes you aside and goes,
• 30:30
  >> "Hey, this is a comedy, so put your
• 30:32
  comedy review hat on." The reason why we
• 30:34
  judge it as as such is because the movie
• 30:38
  teaches you what it is and what the tone
• 30:40
  is and remains consistent.
• 30:41
  >> Yeah. Can you read that again? Sorry.
• 30:43
  just the beginning of a the it trying to
• 30:45
  be not be a Pixar cuz it's an
• 30:46
  Illumination movie which
• 30:49
  >> is going for Pixar. I mean, it's going
• 30:51
  for it's like the same. It's like a
• 30:52
  similar
• 30:53
  >> My only problem is people expecting
• 30:55
  Pixar level storytelling from the
• 30:57
  franchise known for having no story. So
• 31:02
  again, I find this to be a little
• 31:03
  strange just because the movie does have
• 31:05
  the word movie in the title.
• 31:06
  >> It does. It does. And also when you go
• 31:08
  to uh watch it, it's at a movie theater
• 31:11
  and it's not a video game that you play.
• 31:13
  So that's kind of an interesting
• 31:14
  >> an interesting point.
• 31:15
  >> It's that's kind of an interesting sort
• 31:17
  of uh twist in this this uh tweet here.
• 31:22
  >> So it it truly does feel like this
• 31:24
  response of that that like simple, you
• 31:27
  know, shaved down into its simplest
• 31:29
  terms does very much sound like, yeah,
• 31:31
  it simply has no interest in being a
• 31:33
  good movie. Why would anyone say it was
• 31:36
  bad? They just don't get it.
• 31:38
  >> So,
• 31:39
  >> yeah, cuz it it gosh, I mean, you were
• 31:41
  just saying like, yeah, it's called the
• 31:42
  Mario Galaxy movie. It has the word in
• 31:44
  the title and it's like, yeah, it's not
• 31:46
  trying to be a good movie. Well, then
• 31:47
  what is it? Because then I think also
• 31:48
  the the followup to that is like, okay,
• 31:50
  well then what is it trying to be?
• 31:52
  >> Well, it's trying to be a video game.
• 31:53
  Well,
• 31:54
  >> then it's it's not a video game,
• 31:55
  interestingly enough. You know,
• 31:56
  >> what is this? What is this completely
• 31:58
  imagined what it is trying to be
• 32:00
  perspective?
• 32:02
  What what is this? It's not trying to be
• 32:04
  a Pixar movie. So, what does that mean?
• 32:05
  It's not trying to be an animated movie.
• 32:07
  Well, it is. It is.
• 32:08
  >> Yes. Yes. Something interesting, too.
• 32:10
  It's like, it's like, okay, if I pushed
• 32:12
  you down the stairs, and I said, "Well,
• 32:14
  I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to do that."
• 32:15
  Well, at the end of the day, you're in a
• 32:16
  crumpled mess at the bottom of the of
• 32:18
  the stairs, right? Like, unfortunately,
• 32:20
  we've found ourselves in a predicament
• 32:21
  where I pushed you down the stairs. And
• 32:23
  like, we can talk about intent of
• 32:25
  whatever, but at the end of the day, for
• 32:26
  you at the bottom of the stairs, it
• 32:28
  doesn't matter what I was thinking. If I
• 32:30
  find a quote from Chagarro Miiamoto that
• 32:32
  states that states, "Our intention with
• 32:34
  the Super Mario Galaxy movie was to make
• 32:37
  a fantastic movie, can then I then then
• 32:40
  can I tell him that it is, oh, look,
• 32:42
  they tried to make a fantastic movie.
• 32:44
  Now I can address it and tell him that
• 32:46
  he is wrong and it is bad."
• 32:48
  >> When is that allowed?
• 32:49
  >> It's also such an interesting position
• 32:50
  and and I'm not we're not obviously
• 32:52
  we're talking about this one specific
• 32:53
  tweet here or whatever, but it's not
• 32:55
  like
• 32:55
  >> I SEE THIS EVERYWHERE. NO, NO, BUT IT'S
• 32:57
  indicative of like this point that is
• 32:58
  made across the board. Uh uh something
• 33:01
  that I saw in the comments of of a
• 33:03
  review for this movie. Uh this idea of
• 33:06
  like you're trying to tell me that they
• 33:09
  put millions and millions and millions
• 33:12
  of dollars into this film
• 33:15
  to not make a good movie.
• 33:18
  >> So, let's talk about that.
• 33:19
  >> Was everyone on board? Was Chris Pratt
• 33:21
  on board with not making a good movie
• 33:23
  here? So as a film viewer, I do not have
• 33:26
  access to their intentions.
• 33:29
  >> Of course not.
• 33:30
  >> I have access to um you know, if you
• 33:32
  think about the kinds of things that
• 33:34
  anybody seeing a movie or when you
• 33:37
  criticize a movie, the kind of things
• 33:39
  that we judge, you will you will hear
• 33:41
  things about uh performances. Their
• 33:44
  performance was really good. We've heard
• 33:46
  this before. That's not foreign to us.
• 33:48
  Um the the structure, the pacing, things
• 33:51
  like oh the the payoffs. Uh, if you try
• 33:55
  to take any of these elements and force
• 33:58
  a compliment of the Super Mario Galaxy
• 34:00
  movie focused on sequencing, structure,
• 34:04
  performance, or payoff, could you even
• 34:06
  force anything out of your mouth?
• 34:08
  >> No. No. I read a review that said Chris
• 34:10
  Pratt and the rest of the cast do
• 34:12
  incredible jobs. And I'm just like I
• 34:14
  would say service. Like I was like I
• 34:16
  mean like
• 34:17
  >> they read their lines and I could
• 34:18
  understand what they were saying so they
• 34:20
  didn't mumble their way through it I
• 34:21
  guess. But like uh do we not should we
• 34:24
  not expect more?
• 34:26
  >> I think I think even fans of the movie
• 34:28
  even diehard fans would not go to the
• 34:30
  paint and tell you like oh yeah no
• 34:32
  there's like a really good performance
• 34:34
  in this movie. I don't think they would.
• 34:35
  >> No. And what's interesting too is is
• 34:37
  like again this is the day the movie
• 34:39
  comes out so like we have not seen what
• 34:41
  the general like public response to it
• 34:44
  has been. So, I'm just going off of like
• 34:45
  positive reviews of this movie that I've
• 34:47
  read from from critics um who you know
• 34:51
  uh one of the reviews I read we were
• 34:54
  talking about before we started was just
• 34:55
  like they kept saying like yeah well
• 34:56
  okay the plot is a little thin and
• 34:58
  disjointed but it's like okay so like we
• 35:00
  we all agree here that the plot isn't
• 35:02
  even good in the movie you know and
• 35:04
  these car like so if the plot isn't good
• 35:06
  if the characters aren't good and if
• 35:08
  these reference characters or cameo
• 35:10
  characters whatever you want to call
• 35:11
  them are misused like we're starting to
• 35:14
  shave off the bits of what create what
• 35:16
  makes a good movie, right? And it's
• 35:17
  like, okay, the plot's not good, the
• 35:19
  characters aren't very good. Uh, it had
• 35:21
  nice visuals, I suppose, is what we're
• 35:24
  saying here. But even then, I'm like, I
• 35:25
  don't care.
• 35:26
  >> Well, and there's a there's like an
• 35:27
  incredible rhetorical trap in this
• 35:29
  because I could for any movie, for any
• 35:32
  game, for anything. Um, here we go.
• 35:35
  >> There are flat characters in this movie.
• 35:37
  No, no, no, no, no. It's supposed to be
• 35:39
  simple.
• 35:40
  >> Oh, there are no stakes in this movie.
• 35:42
  Well, that's because it's just supposed
• 35:44
  to be light fun,
• 35:46
  >> right?
• 35:47
  >> There's no there's no whatever you could
• 35:49
  just to anything you could just say it's
• 35:51
  not that kind of movie and at that point
• 35:53
  you have made the movie um you know
• 35:58
  >> as art. Yeah.
• 35:59
  >> There there's no a condition under which
• 36:02
  this movie could fail and once something
• 36:05
  uh can't fail you have just completely
• 36:07
  exited from criticism.
• 36:09
  >> Yes.
• 36:10
  >> Yes. And it's also it's this thing where
• 36:12
  like you can like the movie if you like
• 36:14
  the movie and you can even if you wanted
• 36:16
  to make an argument that the movie is
• 36:18
  good for sure but you do have to see it
• 36:22
  first I think is the is my sort of like
• 36:25
  big caveat. I don't think it's good. I
• 36:26
  think it's it's quite bad but like you
• 36:29
  know we we do have a a framework for and
• 36:32
  we we have a I should have a critical
• 36:34
  landscape for opinions all across the
• 36:36
  board for interpreting art and enjoying
• 36:38
  art and things like that. But at the end
• 36:40
  of the day, it's like that's not what
• 36:42
  we're talking about here because the the
• 36:44
  arguments that are being made are are
• 36:45
  coming from a place of just like uh
• 36:48
  brand recognition and um enjoying art as
• 36:52
  in in form of like just reference and
• 36:54
  just saying like you know this, right?
• 36:55
  You you know the Nintendo 64 logo,
• 36:58
  right? I'm I think I'm just really
• 37:00
  disappointed with like some of our peers
• 37:02
  though that like in their kind of
• 37:04
  professional assessments of this movie
• 37:06
  would say stuff like I got emotional
• 37:08
  hearing the music in a theater because I
• 37:10
  I do feel that that is kind of an
• 37:12
  abdication of critical responsibility
• 37:14
  and is largely responsible for creating
• 37:17
  an audience member who thinks that this
• 37:18
  is what reviews are because it is your
• 37:21
  job to ask yourself did the scene create
• 37:23
  that emotion or did the association with
• 37:25
  the music create it% and when people
• 37:28
  talk about, you know, this is a big
• 37:29
  thing for me. It's like whether an
• 37:30
  emotion was evoked is not as important
• 37:33
  to me when I'm criticizing a piece of
• 37:35
  art as as um if an emotion was earned.
• 37:38
  So if like if I say, "Oh, I know this
• 37:40
  theme. I love this series. This is
• 37:42
  making me in kind of like an egocentric
• 37:44
  way feel a certain way, then that is
• 37:47
  different from when I say something is
• 37:48
  earned because the film is uh in its
• 37:50
  construction developing stakes,
• 37:52
  relationships, and payoff that make this
• 37:54
  moment land." And you can absolutely in
• 37:56
  any movie use music to enhance a moment,
• 37:59
  but it cannot substitute for building
• 38:02
  one. And a and music alone is not a
• 38:04
  moment in a movie. It is not. It's this
• 38:07
  interesting thing, too. It's like we all
• 38:08
  recognize that uh jump scares do not
• 38:11
  make a good horror movie or game or or
• 38:14
  like horror at all. Right? Like jump
• 38:15
  scares are um can be used well as a
• 38:18
  tool, but uh jump scares are not
• 38:21
  terrifying, right? It's it is a it's a
• 38:24
  gut reaction. It's a manipulation
• 38:27
  really. And again, that's not to say
• 38:30
  they cannot be effective and they can't
• 38:31
  be used in a way that um you know points
• 38:34
  to a larger experience and a larger
• 38:36
  feeling and whatever, but it's like none
• 38:38
  of us would say like, oh yeah, yeah, a
• 38:40
  movie that is just purely jump scares is
• 38:42
  like really terrifying because it's like
• 38:44
  no, I'm just startled. And it's a
• 38:46
  similar thing here where it's like if
• 38:47
  you were just like being jump scared
• 38:49
  with Mario references, is that good? Is
• 38:51
  that is that you know what I mean? Like
• 38:53
  like you get jump scared, right? But
• 38:54
  it's like
• 38:55
  >> No, I think that's a good comparison.
• 38:56
  >> Do you see where I'm going with that?
• 38:58
  >> I do. I do. Yeah. Because it's it's just
• 39:00
  because like it evoked a response does
• 39:04
  not mean that it is um using the
• 39:06
  construction of the movie to do anything
• 39:09
  particularly notable. And I think like
• 39:11
  if you to kind of like silo something
• 39:14
  out like the music is so weird to me
• 39:17
  because it's like if you replace the
• 39:18
  track with something neutral, does the
• 39:21
  moment still land? And if the answer is
• 39:23
  no, then that means that the character
• 39:24
  arc is not carrying it and um the payoff
• 39:27
  wasn't constructed right. So I think the
• 39:29
  music should always be used to enhance
• 39:32
  whatever is happening in the story. They
• 39:34
  are related to each other. They're not
• 39:35
  these completely separate things. So, I
• 39:37
  think about this uh as well when we were
• 39:39
  talking about like Fox uh Mloud being
• 39:43
  being in this movie because I was
• 39:44
  thinking about like like okay, did he
• 39:46
  need to be here? Like what was the point
• 39:48
  of this being this character?
• 39:50
  >> Um and the answer is uh I think very
• 39:52
  obviously like no, he didn't need to be
• 39:54
  there. Like this is a this is a um like
• 39:57
  pandering fan service thing that is
• 40:00
  either here to set up something in
• 40:01
  another movie or um just to make people
• 40:03
  excited that um Fox is here. And I was
• 40:06
  like thinking to myself like, okay, if
• 40:08
  you if you swapped this character out
• 40:09
  for someone else, if if this was just uh
• 40:13
  some random toad stool or whoever, you
• 40:15
  know what I mean?
• 40:16
  >> Any any other character, literally any
• 40:17
  other character that's already in the
• 40:18
  movie is going to fly them there. Um it
• 40:21
  would be a non-moment and I think people
• 40:23
  would say if it was a brand new
• 40:24
  character that was being introduced or
• 40:25
  whatever that wasn't Fox, it would be
• 40:27
  like, "Oh, this character kind of didn't
• 40:29
  really add anything. Didn't really do
• 40:31
  anything." The value of it being Fox is
• 40:34
  entirely contained within the poster
• 40:37
  they released of Fox Mloud. There is to
• 40:41
  this point, it's like people being
• 40:42
  really mad that they spo like spoiled
• 40:44
  this character being here. Um, I think
• 40:48
  shows the fact that this like the only
• 40:51
  thing this character existed to do is
• 40:52
  for you to be like that's Fox from Star
• 40:55
  Fox and also Smash. I know what that is.
• 40:58
  and and like the rest of his character
• 40:59
  is completely meaningless and worthless
• 41:02
  and not invested.
• 41:03
  >> They don't even they don't even use him.
• 41:04
  Well, they don't even use
• 41:06
  >> That's what I'm saying. It's like
• 41:07
  >> it's not even fun. I would say I would
• 41:09
  say it's not even fun.
• 41:09
  >> He drops everyone off where they're
• 41:11
  going. He's like a mom dropping their
• 41:13
  their kids off at soccer practice. It's
• 41:15
  like, "All right, see you guys later."
• 41:16
  >> I completely agree. And um you would you
• 41:19
  would hope that like oh the reason we
• 41:21
  chose Fox the character for this role is
• 41:24
  because of his point of view in the
• 41:26
  world his relationship to other
• 41:28
  characters. His the attitude that we can
• 41:30
  give this character that's going to
• 41:32
  create friction or create some kind of
• 41:33
  meaning within the story. But none of
• 41:34
  that is important. He is he is simply um
• 41:38
  we needed somebody to drive the car.
• 41:40
  >> Yes. Exactly.
• 41:42
  >> And and we couldn't figure out someone
• 41:44
  who would could drive the car that would
• 41:45
  make this more interesting. and he
• 41:47
  doesn't add or subtract anything by
• 41:49
  being in the room. Nothing.
• 41:50
  >> What I think is kind of fascinating here
• 41:52
  too is I think that we might come across
• 41:54
  an argument uh to say like, well, in the
• 41:57
  similar vein of like, well, it's not
• 41:58
  trying to be a good movie. It's not
• 41:59
  trying to do these things. It's like,
• 42:00
  well, what he's there for is to set up
• 42:03
  the next movie. What something that
• 42:05
  happens in the third one or if they're
• 42:07
  doing a Smash Bros. one or whatever. And
• 42:09
  I think the very obvious and easy
• 42:11
  response to that is just like, "Yeah,
• 42:13
  but it's in this mo we're talking about
• 42:15
  this movie." You know what I'm saying?
• 42:17
  And you're making the face that I feel
• 42:18
  in my heart when this sort of stuff
• 42:19
  comes up. When I read these tweets, when
• 42:21
  I'm when I'm like s like like looking
• 42:23
  through comments, I'm like like, "Guys,
• 42:26
  I need you to take one second.
• 42:28
  >> Jake, you like this movie more because
• 42:30
  it's giving you an opportunity in the
• 42:32
  future to buy something another movie."
• 42:34
  >> Yeah. Like I don't
• 42:35
  >> That should make that should make this
• 42:37
  movie better. It's just it's like,
• 42:41
  you know, like I I think Marvel broke
• 42:43
  our brains a little bit with what we
• 42:44
  should expect with movies. We saw some a
• 42:46
  tweet that was also from a from someone
• 42:48
  who had seen it earlier that was like um
• 42:50
  yeah, you know, make sure you temper
• 42:51
  your expectations for the postredit
• 42:52
  scene and um I was like I didn't even
• 42:56
  know there was a was there supposed am I
• 42:58
  supposed to wait around? I guess I'll
• 42:59
  wait around. And then I I did temper my
• 43:02
  expectations and they were not even
• 43:03
  thoroughly tempered enough. It's like
• 43:07
  >> entirely underwhelmed.
• 43:09
  >> Um, man, it's it's so tough. I think uh
• 43:12
  just to kind of close out this
• 43:13
  conversation about the um replacements
• 43:16
  happening for storytelling. I think
• 43:17
  again if you think of like really iconic
• 43:20
  um moments that are infused with music
• 43:22
  in animated movies, I want to go I want
• 43:24
  to go to Spiderverse again. You brought
• 43:25
  this up during our spoiler discussion,
• 43:27
  but the um that that the big leap that
• 43:30
  Miles
• 43:31
  >> Yeah. And I think like
• 43:34
  is is that moment good because they
• 43:37
  picked the right song if they if they
• 43:40
  used a different song. Exactly. It's so
• 43:42
  obvious the nobody is writing about that
• 43:44
  movie going oh when that song plays and
• 43:47
  then they just kind of wax poetic about
• 43:49
  the music. Like that's not what it is.
• 43:51
  It's that it is there is a there is an
• 43:52
  internal conflict that we have tracked
• 43:54
  and we understand what this moment means
• 43:56
  and the action is resolving a character
• 43:59
  problem and the music is amplifying
• 44:00
  something that is already there.
• 44:02
  >> I think I feel a similar way about uh
• 44:04
  K-pop Demon Hunters which is obviously a
• 44:05
  very musicheavy uh thing. I think of
• 44:09
  course that I movie I think is elevated
• 44:11
  by the fact that those tracks are um
• 44:13
  hits and bangers. Um but I also think
• 44:16
  that like a lot of those moments are
• 44:18
  earned for the most part. You know what
• 44:19
  I mean? because it's like okay we have
• 44:20
  characters who have this drama and this
• 44:22
  is all set up and whatever and what I
• 44:24
  think is most interesting in comparing
• 44:25
  that to the Mario movie is that it does
• 44:27
  not have IP to lean on it it does not
• 44:30
  have like it can't just like point you
• 44:31
  can go like you know what this is right
• 44:32
  we all have an understanding of who this
• 44:34
  character already is and it's like no no
• 44:36
  because we have to establish them in
• 44:37
  this movie
• 44:38
  >> right and I think like the
• 44:42
  I don't know I just I I don't know what
• 44:43
  the responses are going to be like to
• 44:44
  this episode to be honest with you but
• 44:46
  I'm just like thinking about it
• 44:46
  >> bad I think it's this is not going to be
• 44:48
  received But I but also I'm like like
• 44:51
  I'm not saying you're a bad person. I'm
• 44:53
  just saying like think about this. Be a
• 44:54
  little bit more curious.
• 44:55
  >> Yeah. And and like again if if you're
• 44:57
  just trying to approach something as a
• 44:59
  fan, you can't weaponize your fan
• 45:01
  perspective to argue with the critical
• 45:03
  perspective. That's like those are
• 45:05
  they're not they're not equal things,
• 45:06
  you know, and it's like you can't use
• 45:08
  your emotional fervor to attack
• 45:11
  somebody's criticism of construction.
• 45:14
  Um, and I would just I would just hope
• 45:15
  that if that if anybody is going to tell
• 45:17
  me about some some powerful effect that
• 45:20
  the Mario movie, the Mario Galaxy movie
• 45:23
  had on them, I would hope that the most
• 45:25
  emotional part of the movie, the thing
• 45:26
  that they are invoking is something that
• 45:29
  um the movie created.
• 45:32
  >> Yes, dude. [ __ ] yes.
• 45:33
  >> That's it.
• 45:34
  >> Yes.
• 45:34
  >> That's it.
• 45:36
  >> I love pizza rolls. You I'm not They're
• 45:38
  not It's not a gourmet meal.
• 45:42
  You know what is a gourmet meal though,
• 45:44
  Jake?
• 45:44
  >> Tell me.
• 45:45
  >> The members of the Critical Error
• 45:46
  Nation.
• 45:47
  >> People who've joined us. Yes. Who've
• 45:49
  joined us over at patreon.com/critical
• 45:52
  error. And um the members are are, you
• 45:55
  know, $5 and up supporters on on
• 45:57
  Patreon. They get additional bonus
• 45:59
  episodes every single week. Our bonus
• 46:00
  pod this week again we we mentioned is a
• 46:03
  uh more general like discussion of the
• 46:06
  Mario movie that doesn't maybe have the
• 46:07
  same exact framing to it. Um, that again
• 46:10
  I think is is a solid conversation. But
• 46:12
  I want to give a special shout out to
• 46:13
  the members of the Jake and Peter tier
• 46:15
  on our Patreon. These are the people who
• 46:17
  are donating uh $20 a month and up to
• 46:20
  us. These are people like Andrew Bulkar,
• 46:23
  Evan Snee, and Robert K. Sada. Thank you
• 46:27
  so much to the JP computer tier. Truly
• 46:30
  couldn't happen without you all.
• 46:32
  And this week, of course, I think we
• 46:34
  have to thank our $10 and up
• 46:36
  subscribers, the members of Critical
• 46:37
  Error Royalty with a unique sound that I
• 46:40
  think will fill them with emotion that I
• 46:44
  completely earned myself.
• 46:46
  >> Is it going to be Is it going to be
• 46:47
  Mario themed, you think?
• 46:48
  >> I mean, I think I think if that's if
• 46:49
  that's how I need to I got to I got to
• 46:51
  get emotion out of them as fast as
• 46:53
  possible.
• 46:53
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really cut.
• 46:55
  >> Exactly. So, I think that's the strategy
• 46:56
  I'm going to take. Let's listen to that
• 46:57
  sound.
• 46:58
  >> Woohoo! Kchow, Connor, true love, Pinky
• 47:01
  Oats, Andrew Bulgar, Cole Shin, Evan
• 47:06
  Snee, Thick Dick, Mystic, Jared Keno,
• 47:10
  Danny Disaster, Mero, Jacob Richter,
• 47:15
  Mitch Dyer, Sam Woods, Anel Trait,
• 47:18
  Robert Quesada, James Pierre Reed.
• 47:21
  Woohoo.
• 47:22
  >> Excellent. Take it away.
• 47:24
  >> All right. I've got a uh pre-written
• 47:26
  piece as we bring to the table every
• 47:30
  single week here. Um I wrote this
• 47:34
  and I'm curious what you think of it.
• 47:36
  Here we go.
• 47:39
  My father couldn't push the car but
• 47:41
  wouldn't let me push it for him. The
• 47:44
  engine was dead or something. My car was
• 47:46
  spewing out a white mist from under the
• 47:48
  hood. But it was past midnight, so we'd
• 47:50
  have to leave it in the back of a
• 47:51
  Jewelco parking lot overnight and have
• 47:53
  it towed in the morning.
• 47:55
  I know I can push the car. And before he
• 47:58
  even tries, I know that my dad can't.
• 48:01
  The man has had both of his hips
• 48:03
  replaced. He's stiff stepping up over
• 48:05
  the curb. He's stiff sitting down in the
• 48:07
  driver's seat to try the keys. He's
• 48:09
  stiff leaning over the open hood to
• 48:11
  check the engine. It's hard to imagine
• 48:13
  him pushing a car, but it's harder to
• 48:16
  imagine him not pushing a car.
• 48:20
  You watch your parents grow old in front
• 48:22
  of your own eyes. When I play my
• 48:24
  memories back, I see them slowly wilt
• 48:26
  like a time lapse of my house plants
• 48:28
  gone unwatered.
• 48:30
  It's easy to remember them young and
• 48:31
  slender. My father puts me over his head
• 48:33
  and onto his shoulders. I am three years
• 48:36
  away from being the age my mother was
• 48:38
  when she had me.
• 48:40
  Three years away from coming to the
• 48:43
  cyclical start of my own time lapse that
• 48:45
  can be superimposed over hers. I
• 48:48
  remember every moment from now to then
• 48:51
  and it felt like no time at all. Of
• 48:54
  course, my father can't push a car
• 48:56
  anymore. I remember taking care of him
• 48:58
  on my 19th birthday. I was fresh off a
• 49:00
  breakup. He was fresh off his first hip
• 49:02
  replacement. We went and saw a terrible
• 49:04
  Matt Damon movie. I think he was high
• 49:06
  off the painkillers.
• 49:08
  Smash cut to summer and he's having his
• 49:11
  second hip replaced. My mom is out of
• 49:12
  town again and I'm kneeling next to my
• 49:14
  dad helping him get his shoes on. I look
• 49:16
  up and he's asleep. I think he was high
• 49:19
  off the painkillers.
• 49:22
  I try to tell my dad that I can push the
• 49:24
  car, that if he sits down in steers, we
• 49:26
  can take it around back, but he's not
• 49:27
  listening. I still think of my dad as
• 49:30
  being 40, and he still thinks of me as
• 49:32
  being eight. If he can't push the car,
• 49:35
  then it's not going to budge. I didn't
• 49:37
  grow up and he didn't grow old. He's
• 49:39
  trying to push this car with me on his
• 49:41
  shoulders, and I don't have it in me to
• 49:43
  force him to reckon with the fact that
• 49:45
  one day he lifted me over his head and
• 49:47
  put me on the ground, never to lift me
• 49:49
  back up over his head again.
• 49:54
  So, I let him call my mother and wife
• 49:55
  outside to help me push to help push
• 49:58
  because if he can't do it, then he knows
• 50:00
  it's not possible for a single set of
• 50:01
  hands to get this thing rolling. My wife
• 50:04
  sits in the driver's seat. I stand
• 50:06
  between my parents, ready to push. My
• 50:07
  dad tells us to push on three, but I
• 50:09
  disobey and I push on one. The car
• 50:12
  begins to roll before my mother or
• 50:14
  father lay their hands on it.
• 50:17
  Our bodies aren't machines.
• 50:19
  It cost me $760 to replace the hoses
• 50:22
  that rotted away, leaking transmission
• 50:24
  fluid onto the pavement. It's good as
• 50:26
  new. A flawless transplant.
• 50:29
  My car drives fine like it never
• 50:31
  happened. Like no time has passed at
• 50:33
  all. There is no stiffness when I turn
• 50:36
  the wheel.
• 50:38
  Thank you.
• 50:40
  >> Bravo. Bravo.
• 50:42
  >> Thank you very much.
• 50:43
  >> The um Yeah, I think that that's such a
• 50:46
  such a natural companion. The the kind
• 50:50
  of um looking at your parents and I
• 50:54
  don't know, man. There's something so
• 50:55
  easy to me about like the body and the
• 50:58
  car and I'm like, damn. It's Yeah, it's
• 51:01
  the second you brought it up, I was
• 51:02
  like, damn, it's all there.
• 51:03
  >> Yeah,
• 51:04
  >> it's all there, actually. And it was
• 51:05
  like it's so funny because this happened
• 51:07
  like two weeks ago or a week and a half
• 51:09
  ago at this point and like I remember
• 51:11
  like this rarely happens to me where I
• 51:13
  was like
• 51:14
  >> this is what that critical error piece
• 51:15
  is going to be about. Huh. Cuz again
• 51:17
  again it's it's easy to like you know
• 51:18
  you said like the connection between
• 51:20
  like you can replace parts of a car and
• 51:22
  it for the most part drives about the
• 51:23
  same, right?
• 51:24
  >> Uh but it's like we're kind of not we
• 51:26
  don't work like that. Um, and you know,
• 51:29
  it's always difficult like uh how you
• 51:33
  trying to navigate like the
• 51:34
  conversations with your parents about
• 51:36
  like, hey, I I don't think you can do
• 51:37
  that anymore, you know, and it's and
• 51:40
  like I don't know how to I don't know if
• 51:42
  I can even be the one to tell you that
• 51:44
  you can't.
• 51:45
  >> O,
• 51:46
  >> you know.
• 51:46
  >> Yeah.
• 51:47
  >> Um I don't know. It's it's difficult. Or
• 51:49
  like I think about how you know at a
• 51:51
  certain point my parents probably you
• 51:53
  know not now they're fine but it's like
• 51:55
  at a certain point my parents shouldn't
• 51:57
  drive
• 51:58
  >> right and it's like how do you reckon
• 52:00
  with the fact that like hey this thing
• 52:02
  that you used to do and whatever uh you
• 52:04
  just can't do anymore. I think too,
• 52:06
  maybe our our younger listeners won't
• 52:08
  won't resonate with this as much as
• 52:10
  maybe you or I do, but just the the kind
• 52:13
  of like immediate
• 52:15
  material weight of having to
• 52:19
  fix your car or get a new car or like
• 52:22
  that whatever that is is it hits you in
• 52:26
  a way that is like, oh my god, talk
• 52:29
  about something I don't want to deal
• 52:30
  with.
• 52:30
  >> Yes. And so then I think when you bring
• 52:32
  in the the parent stuff of that kind of
• 52:34
  these kinds of conversations there there
• 52:36
  is something that you can latch on to
• 52:38
  there that is emotionally res resonant
• 52:41
  in terms of like dear god do I not want
• 52:44
  to deal with this you know
• 52:45
  >> yes it's it's like uh so much of like I
• 52:50
  really don't want to think about this or
• 52:52
  or take care of this in this moment and
• 52:53
  like that is that okay if we don't and
• 52:55
  it's like with a car you're like hey
• 52:57
  you're stranded right now at a pizza
• 52:58
  restaurant you're like [ __ ] Yeah.
• 53:01
  >> Okay, cool. Time to take care of this
• 53:03
  right now. Huh?
• 53:04
  >> Oh god. And it's like
• 53:06
  how that tendrils out and it's like,
• 53:08
  okay, now that's it's not just something
• 53:10
  that you have to deal with. It's a
• 53:12
  little confrontational. It's maybe like
• 53:14
  and now you've got your wife with you
• 53:16
  and it's like, okay, the relationship
• 53:17
  she has with your parents.
• 53:19
  You do now she's brought into this.
• 53:21
  >> Yeah. And and like I'm not trying to
• 53:23
  have a confrontation in this moment in
• 53:24
  this jewel parking lot, but it's like
• 53:28
  >> cuz I also understand like what the
• 53:30
  confrontation actually is, right? Cuz
• 53:31
  like I think my dad knew he couldn't
• 53:33
  push it and I think he knew that I
• 53:35
  probably could,
• 53:36
  >> but it's that thing about like, you
• 53:38
  know, there's a pride to it and and I
• 53:41
  understand that because one day that
• 53:42
  will be me and that was the sort of
• 53:43
  thing I was sort of like
• 53:44
  >> really thinking about. I was like, damn,
• 53:46
  there will be a day, huh? when I can't.
• 53:49
  In the same way that like I don't know,
• 53:52
  should I be climbing a tree right now?
• 53:53
  I'm 28 years old. Like, not that not
• 53:56
  that I can't, but I'm like thinking
• 53:58
  about that fall. When you're a kid and
• 53:59
  you fall, you're fine. You get up and
• 54:00
  you're like whatever. But it's like
• 54:02
  maybe my maybe my risky fall days are
• 54:06
  over. You know what I mean?
• 54:07
  >> This reminds me so much of
• 54:11
  Star Fox and the Rwing.
• 54:12
  >> Please.
• 54:18
  Yeah. No, no. Uh, go right ahead. Uh,
• 54:21
  elaborate, Jake.
• 54:23
  >> You know, I just think he looks at that
• 54:25
  Arwing as an extension of not only his
• 54:28
  own humanity, but his masculinity.
• 54:30
  >> Mhm.
• 54:30
  >> And I think um, you know, you're you're
• 54:34
  young, you think you can do anything.
• 54:35
  You've got this sweet ship. A barrel
• 54:38
  roll, no problem.
• 54:40
  >> They do the bar they say do a barrel
• 54:42
  roll two times in the movie. And
• 54:44
  >> wait, there was a second one. What was
• 54:45
  the second one?
• 54:46
  >> Well, there there there's the big one
• 54:47
  where to where Toad says it, but then
• 54:49
  when um Fox is is like
• 54:53
  recall like he's like explaining like
• 54:55
  where he comes from. Uh
• 54:56
  >> there's one in there.
• 54:57
  >> Yeah, someone says it. I think it's the
• 54:58
  toad cuz the toad's the guy who says
• 55:00
  right. Slippy, is that his name?
• 55:03
  >> You know, I love slip slip. Yeah.
• 55:06
  >> Yeah. They had a full screen zoom of
• 55:09
  like N64 Slippy and I and I was like,
• 55:12
  damn, that was for me. And it didn't
• 55:14
  even hit.
• 55:15
  >> That's the thing is it's like I I saw it
• 55:18
  with um you know midnight uh pretty much
• 55:20
  a packed theater uh full of you know
• 55:24
  people who are there to see the Mario
• 55:25
  movie at midnight. So like fans, right?
• 55:27
  And this movie did not really land. So I
• 55:29
  really do wonder like if if this is
• 55:31
  going to be received the same way as the
• 55:32
  first one was. I think it will be.
• 55:33
  >> I encourage people if they're if they're
• 55:35
  curious to sign up at
• 55:36
  patreon.com/critical and listen to our
• 55:39
  uh spoiler episode of the bonus podcast.
• 55:42
  But I guess something that I just want
• 55:43
  to kind of like make clear too is that I
• 55:46
  kind of liked the first movie.
• 55:48
  >> Yeah, you you I know that about you.
• 55:51
  >> I kind of like the first one. I think
• 55:52
  it's I think it's I think it's like
• 55:54
  thin, but I think that there is enough
• 55:58
  um there are enough ideas at play that
• 56:00
  I'm like, okay, I think that this was at
• 56:02
  least memorable. I had mentioned to you
• 56:04
  like Bowser doing the Peaches song. Um
• 56:08
  Mario fighting Donkey Kong with the
• 56:10
  catsuit. I'm like, yeah, okay. like I'm
• 56:11
  I'm I'm with them on some of this stuff.
• 56:14
  >> Um I don't have that feeling about this
• 56:16
  one. I don't I I come out of this and
• 56:19
  I'm like what was the best scene of this
• 56:20
  movie? I don't know.
• 56:21
  >> No, I'm like even like struggling. And
• 56:23
  you know what's so funny too? Like I
• 56:24
  think this is a like indicative of a
• 56:26
  plot that doesn't go anywhere that like
• 56:27
  doesn't have any real momentum. It's
• 56:29
  like I couldn't even tell you the order
• 56:30
  of events.
• 56:32
  >> Very hard. Very hard
• 56:33
  >> cuz they're at the they're at the
• 56:34
  spaceport and then they go
• 56:36
  I think to the place where the
• 56:39
  >> That spaceport is so boring. They don't
• 56:40
  do anything with that place.
• 56:41
  >> Yeah. And like that's the thing too is
• 56:42
  like I was expecting there to be like
• 56:44
  any kind of like charm to it, but it's
• 56:46
  just like it's just like a boring place.
• 56:48
  >> I swear they in in the first one I think
• 56:50
  they hit that cuz when you go to the
• 56:52
  Mushroom Kingdom they're since they're
• 56:53
  from Brooklyn they do that whole and
• 56:56
  then then when they go to the Donkey
• 56:57
  Kong world it's like oh my god and then
• 56:59
  remember they're they're they're driving
• 57:00
  in the car by the big the big Kong and
• 57:02
  then that one Kong spins out and
• 57:04
  explodes. It's like that's that was that
• 57:06
  was fun. That's not in this. when they
• 57:08
  go to the Mushroom Kingdom for the first
• 57:09
  time, they're like looking at like, oh,
• 57:10
  they have like a vending machine that
• 57:11
  does like this or whatever. You know
• 57:12
  what I mean? And it's it's like silly
• 57:15
  because it's like leaning into the Mario
• 57:16
  stuff of this and they're just like at
• 57:17
  like a bus station. Like it's just it's
• 57:19
  just it's nothing. I will say I did like
• 57:22
  uh the one little background detail that
• 57:23
  I I thought was kind of charming was um
• 57:25
  the penguins don't have backpacks. They
• 57:26
  just have all of their items in encased
• 57:29
  in a in a block of ice, which I thought
• 57:30
  was kind of funny. That's fun. You know,
• 57:32
  >> that's good. Sure. Um, but you know
• 57:34
  that's not it doesn't make Can I ask
• 57:37
  were those bunnies from Mario? They were
• 57:38
  like bunny like colored bunnies.
• 57:39
  >> Of course.
• 57:40
  >> Yeah, I assume so. But like
• 57:42
  >> Yeah, Mario Galaxy. You run around, you
• 57:43
  catch those bunnies. Okay. Calling
• 57:45
  calling back of course to the Mario 64
• 57:46
  bunny that you got to catch.
• 57:48
  >> Can I Is this a safe place?
• 57:49
  >> You're not even You're not even Yeah, I
• 57:51
  think if somebody made it this far,
• 57:52
  they're not they're not going to be mean
• 57:54
  to you. Yeah.
• 57:54
  >> Yeah. I've not played Mario 64
• 57:57
  >> ever.
• 57:58
  >> Never.
• 57:59
  >> Okay.
• 58:00
  Maybe an N64 kiosk in like a McDonald's
• 58:02
  when I was like a child. Remember when
• 58:04
  those existed? But
• 58:07
  it doesn't.
• 58:07
  >> Yeah, it's it's tough, right? Because
• 58:08
  neither neither you nor me really is
• 58:10
  willing to go hard in the paint for
• 58:12
  these Mario games.
• 58:13
  >> Um
• 58:14
  >> No.
• 58:14
  >> Yeah. Just not fun.
• 58:17
  >> I I would say that Mario 64 is actually
• 58:19
  one that holds up and has the juice. I
• 58:20
  think Mario 64 is is is good.
• 58:23
  >> Interesting.
• 58:24
  >> But Mario, Dude, those those Mario these
• 58:25
  Mario Galaxy games, God, I can't believe
• 58:27
  I'm even admitting this.
• 58:28
  >> Oh, I remember this. You have Yeah, cuz
• 58:30
  these are like [ __ ] beloved video
• 58:33
  games and you played them when they
• 58:34
  re-released them last year, right?
• 58:36
  >> Dude, I have tried to play these games
• 58:38
  so many times.
• 58:39
  >> I think shees, they're so boring. I
• 58:42
  literally am trying so hard to see what
• 58:44
  everybody else sees, but it's like it's
• 58:47
  like to me it's like the worst version
• 58:49
  of Mario because it's like
• 58:51
  >> every sing in Galaxy, dude, you're on
• 58:53
  these like stupid [ __ ] planettoids
• 58:56
  that don't make any sense. It's not a
• 58:58
  planet. You're just on this thing that's
• 58:59
  like, "Oh, congratulations on reaching
• 59:01
  this arrangement of a boring video game
• 59:03
  level." And it's not fun. It's not fun.
• 59:06
  But
• 59:06
  >> yeah,
• 59:07
  >> I gota just to
• 59:08
  >> Mario Odyssey, one of the greatest of
• 59:10
  all time.
• 59:10
  >> Okay. So So there you go. You're back on
• 59:12
  with with with the heads.
• 59:14
  >> Mario Odyssey, one of the Yep. There you
• 59:15
  go. One of the greatest.
• 59:16
  >> I played like three hours of Mario
• 59:17
  Odyssey and I was like, I'm out. I'm
• 59:19
  okay.
• 59:19
  >> Mario Odyssey is good. Every every
• 59:21
  >> listen, you get to a new you get to a
• 59:23
  new little planet or I guess it's not a
• 59:25
  planet. I don't want to get confused
• 59:26
  with galaxy. a different country, let's
• 59:28
  say a different continent on the old
• 59:30
  Mario planet, and you see all those
• 59:32
  little enemies, you see all this stuff
• 59:34
  running around, and every single one of
• 59:35
  them is an opportunity for you to
• 59:37
  explore and discover what they can do.
• 59:39
  And it's like, oh my god, how are they
• 59:41
  going to transform my ability to explore
• 59:43
  this area and collect my sweet, sweet
• 59:45
  moons that I can't wait to suck on at
• 59:47
  night? Oh,
• 59:48
  >> you know what's interesting is to my
• 59:50
  understanding, Mario Odyssey does a good
• 59:52
  job of making all of those different
• 59:55
  >> like characters or enemies or whatever
• 59:57
  that you can possess like have uh truly
• 1:00:00
  unique and different sort of skills and
• 1:00:02
  and things that do change the way that
• 1:00:03
  you interact with the world. But when I
• 1:00:05
  think about something like um what was
• 1:00:07
  that game? Legend of Zelda Echoes of
• 1:00:08
  Wisdom where you plays uh what's her
• 1:00:11
  name? Zelda, excuse me. Sorry. The the
• 1:00:14
  titular Zelda.
• 1:00:15
  >> You're getting cancelled for this
• 1:00:16
  actually. That was crazy. That was
• 1:00:18
  insane.
• 1:00:19
  >> I'm sorry. It was so It was so boring
• 1:00:21
  that I couldn't remember the name of of
• 1:00:23
  Zelda.
• 1:00:24
  >> Echolina. Yeah.
• 1:00:25
  >> Echolina. Yeah. Cuz when you play as
• 1:00:27
  Echolina, like her like anytime you find
• 1:00:29
  a new enemy, it's just like, oh, it's
• 1:00:30
  just the same as the bat. So I just keep
• 1:00:32
  using the bat. Huh?
• 1:00:33
  >> Keep summoning nine bats.
• 1:00:35
  >> Yeah. All this all the stuff in Echoes
• 1:00:37
  of Wisdom is just like, oh, this is just
• 1:00:38
  a port manto of something that Link
• 1:00:40
  could do in that other game. Yeah.
• 1:00:41
  >> So So it's not exciting. But no. Yeah.
• 1:00:43
  In Odyssey, it's like not only is it
• 1:00:45
  like, oh, this is actually like a new
• 1:00:47
  ability that I've never had in a Mario
• 1:00:48
  game before, it also feels true to the
• 1:00:51
  Mario enemies that you are possessing in
• 1:00:53
  a way that makes it feel like it was all
• 1:00:54
  thought of from the start. So that so
• 1:00:57
  that part of it is really cool. And I
• 1:00:58
  think like Mario Odyssey was so well
• 1:01:00
  articulated that you like couldn't do a
• 1:01:03
  second Mario Odyssey with Kappy because
• 1:01:05
  you would have to go through kind of
• 1:01:07
  capturing the glmbbas and the Koopas and
• 1:01:09
  the the all these things that you've
• 1:01:11
  already done. they've already kind of
• 1:01:13
  taught you these things and starting
• 1:01:14
  over from the they it's it was too
• 1:01:17
  successful like you you Yeah. I don't
• 1:01:19
  know. Yeah.
• 1:01:19
  >> Is um now you obviously are much more
• 1:01:22
  plugged into the Nintendo side of the
• 1:01:24
  industry I think than I am.
• 1:01:25
  >> Uh is are they doing another is like
• 1:01:28
  should we expect a new mainline Mario
• 1:01:30
  game this year?
• 1:01:32
  Word on the street is from the prominent
• 1:01:34
  um leaker out there is that the big game
• 1:01:39
  this fall is that Legend of Zelda
• 1:01:41
  Ocarina of Time remake and then 2027 is
• 1:01:46
  Mario.
• 1:01:48
  >> Okay. I would I would play Ocarina of
• 1:01:50
  Time remake.
• 1:01:54
  >> I'm a I'm a fan of the franchise.
• 1:01:57
  >> Oh yeah, that's right. That's right. I
• 1:01:59
  just don't think Ocarina of Time is um
• 1:02:02
  >> I would I would hope that they change it
• 1:02:03
  a lot. I would hope that they really
• 1:02:06
  like
• 1:02:06
  >> the thing.
• 1:02:07
  >> Can I tell you my Can I give you a
• 1:02:08
  little prediction about this?
• 1:02:09
  >> Yeah.
• 1:02:09
  >> Okay. I think everybody imagines this
• 1:02:11
  game
• 1:02:12
  >> and they are seeing like that GameCube
• 1:02:14
  tech demo where everything looks
• 1:02:15
  realistic and it all looks like mature
• 1:02:18
  and I dude I don't know why I have this
• 1:02:19
  vision for the Ocarina of Time remake
• 1:02:21
  where it's going to be if I could say
• 1:02:23
  one thing about it much more cartoony
• 1:02:25
  than anyone expects it to be.
• 1:02:27
  >> Yeah. I would love it if it was like if
• 1:02:28
  they did it kind of like a Wind Waker or
• 1:02:30
  like what if they made it look like
• 1:02:31
  Okami or something like that. You know
• 1:02:32
  what I mean? Like they kind of like
• 1:02:33
  visually really really change it up. Um
• 1:02:36
  but I wonder like I imagine it'll just
• 1:02:38
  be like a refreshed version of the 3DS
• 1:02:41
  remake, right? I mean like No, you don't
• 1:02:43
  think so? You think it'll actually be
• 1:02:44
  quite different?
• 1:02:45
  >> I think it's going to be like a new
• 1:02:46
  game. I think it's going to be like like
• 1:02:48
  a weird new game. They're going to tell
• 1:02:49
  us that the the Xenolade studio made it.
• 1:02:52
  It's going to be like whoa weird.
• 1:02:54
  >> Oh, see now now that actually has me
• 1:02:55
  interested. Yeah, they're going to tell
• 1:02:57
  us something that's like going to be
• 1:02:58
  like, "Oh, this is not at all what I was
• 1:03:00
  picturing." And my one the thing that
• 1:03:02
  would really like immediately turn me
• 1:03:04
  off is if we see the graphic style for
• 1:03:06
  it and it just looks like Breath of the
• 1:03:08
  Wild Tears of the Kingdom. If they're
• 1:03:09
  like, "This is what Zelda games look
• 1:03:11
  like now." Oh, I'd be so sad.
• 1:03:12
  >> Yeah.
• 1:03:13
  >> And I could see that happening.
• 1:03:14
  >> Yeah, I can see that happening. And
• 1:03:16
  what's interesting is like obviously
• 1:03:17
  that style works for those games, but
• 1:03:19
  it's like, can you just transplant that
• 1:03:20
  into another another game? I don't know.
• 1:03:23
  >> It wouldn't it wouldn't be fun, but
• 1:03:25
  yeah. I don't know. So, I'm I
• 1:03:28
  yeah, I I just Ocarine of Time I think
• 1:03:30
  is a hard game for for me personally to
• 1:03:33
  go back to. I don't have that attachment
• 1:03:34
  to it like other people do. But, um
• 1:03:37
  listen, whatever gets me closer to
• 1:03:40
  hearing that Skull Kid laugh.
• 1:03:42
  >> Yeah, right. That's the thing. It's
• 1:03:44
  like, hey, if you're remaking them,
• 1:03:46
  maybe if we if we get back to uh
• 1:03:48
  Majora's Mask
• 1:03:49
  >> now, I mean, it doesn't whatever
• 1:03:50
  whatever it takes to get there, I'm in.
• 1:03:52
  Don't worry about it.
• 1:03:53
  >> Don't worry about it.
• 1:03:54
  >> 100%.
• 1:03:56
  I think that's it, right?
• 1:03:58
  >> Do you have any um having having seen
• 1:04:02
  Fox Mloud in the Mario Galaxy movie,
• 1:04:05
  does that
• 1:04:06
  >> what what vigor has this inspired in you
• 1:04:09
  for when this Star Fox game is revealed,
• 1:04:13
  knowing what you know of Fox Mloud now
• 1:04:15
  from this movie, what do you what do you
• 1:04:16
  want that game to be like? What's what's
• 1:04:18
  like a hope you have for that game?
• 1:04:20
  Well, I think one of the most
• 1:04:21
  embarrassing things you can do if you're
• 1:04:22
  Fox Mloud is appear in this movie. Uh
• 1:04:25
  because it wasn't very good, everyone.
• 1:04:27
  Um so it doesn't instill a lot of hope
• 1:04:30
  in me. I don't know. I've never played a
• 1:04:31
  Star Fox game. Um they
• 1:04:35
  I know. I'm sorry. I missed them, I
• 1:04:37
  guess. Um I don't know. They they none.
• 1:04:40
  My expectations are none. I probably
• 1:04:41
  wouldn't play it to be I mean, unless it
• 1:04:43
  was like unless it was You've mentioned
• 1:04:45
  that there's a Star Fox game that's
• 1:04:47
  basically just Star Wars Battlefront.
• 1:04:48
  I'm like, "Okay, now that's interesting.
• 1:04:49
  Now I could be I could be and if on Game
• 1:04:52
  Chat
• 1:04:55
  little Gamecube Star Fox Assault, you
• 1:04:56
  could run around. You go into you jump
• 1:04:58
  into the tank. Your friend is has jumped
• 1:04:59
  into an Rwing. They're they're flying
• 1:05:01
  out there. You're shooting them with a
• 1:05:02
  tank. That's a That's a good time.
• 1:05:03
  That's a good time. If they could do
• 1:05:04
  something like that, that'd be fun. But
• 1:05:05
  >> I could be convinced by that, but other
• 1:05:06
  than that, nothing. Nothing.
• 1:05:08
  >> I want a trailer for this new Star Fox
• 1:05:10
  game to come out." Okay.
• 1:05:11
  >> And they go, "Hey, this is super tied
• 1:05:13
  into the movie. Star Fox Mloud himself
• 1:05:17
  will be voiced by Glenn Pal. No [ __ ]
• 1:05:21
  shot.
• 1:05:22
  No shot.
• 1:05:24
  >> This is what I want.
• 1:05:26
  >> Did he do a good job?
• 1:05:27
  >> No.
• 1:05:28
  >> I didn't think so. I was interested cuz
• 1:05:30
  like
• 1:05:30
  >> like Glenn Powell already has the like
• 1:05:32
  schmarmy kind of like I mean he was in
• 1:05:34
  top he's the character in Top Gun is
• 1:05:36
  what I'm thinking about and that's kind
• 1:05:37
  of like the vibe you get from Fox in the
• 1:05:39
  movie and then he doesn't do that. He's
• 1:05:40
  just like
• 1:05:41
  >> I would have to go back and watch the
• 1:05:42
  movie again. But my take off of that one
• 1:05:44
  viewing was that I actually, this is so
• 1:05:46
  weird, but I actually thought like the
• 1:05:48
  first few lines he had, he kind of did
• 1:05:50
  well and then the rest of the movie
• 1:05:51
  >> Yeah. No, he like stumbled. It was It
• 1:05:52
  was like, "Oh, sure. That's that's
• 1:05:53
  Glimpa's is Star Fox." And then it's
• 1:05:55
  like
• 1:05:56
  >> it got watered down or something. It was
• 1:05:57
  something changed. Yeah. So that was
• 1:05:58
  that was my take on that. But
• 1:05:59
  >> are you going to watch this again?
• 1:06:00
  Sorry. You said I'd have to watch this
• 1:06:02
  movie again. Like are you is this
• 1:06:03
  >> not anytime soon?
• 1:06:05
  >> Yeah, I guess.
• 1:06:06
  >> But but I would just if if I were to
• 1:06:08
  test that and and want to investigate
• 1:06:10
  that further. I think um I think what I
• 1:06:12
  want is I want that new far Star Fox
• 1:06:14
  game trailer to come out and we're we're
• 1:06:15
  doing cut scenes. We're showing Star
• 1:06:16
  Fox. Look at this. Look at the style.
• 1:06:18
  It's just like that that memory, that
• 1:06:19
  story he told from the movie. Oh my god,
• 1:06:21
  it looks so cool. Um I would want Fox to
• 1:06:24
  be way way hornier.
• 1:06:27
  >> What? What?
• 1:06:29
  >> Wait, wait. What do you mean?
• 1:06:30
  >> That's what he was missing. That's what
• 1:06:32
  he was missing in this movie. He needed
• 1:06:33
  to be hornier.
• 1:06:34
  >> Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay,
• 1:06:35
  sure. Yeah, that's the thing is is and
• 1:06:36
  we talked about this in our episode that
• 1:06:38
  we did on Patreon, but like yeah, like
• 1:06:40
  feel like they were setting up him and
• 1:06:42
  him and Peach to have something they
• 1:06:43
  just didn't.
• 1:06:43
  >> Just imagine how much more you're
• 1:06:46
  watching the Star Fox game trailer and
• 1:06:48
  Fox is he's that that little window pops
• 1:06:50
  up. It's his face and he's calling he's
• 1:06:52
  talking to the other people on the on
• 1:06:53
  the team and you just see Fox staring
• 1:06:55
  right at you going, "Crystal,
• 1:06:58
  Crystal, baby."
• 1:07:00
  >> Cuz Crystal's the crystal star Fox.
• 1:07:04
  We're touching down on planet Zebzo.
• 1:07:07
  That's right, Crystal voiced by Sydney
• 1:07:09
  Sweeney.
• 1:07:11
  Crystal, you want to go check out Planet
• 1:07:13
  Zebzo?
• 1:07:14
  >> Okay, everyone. Uh, you know, thanks for
• 1:07:17
  subscribing. Like, subscribe.
• 1:07:19
  Patreon.comair.
• 1:07:21
  Krista.