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Episode 401: Making a Living, Making a Life with Nick Campbell and Lauren Luneckas · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  what you all do is. So it just is so applicable to, to every side of, of not only sports but work, but family life.
• 0:08
  And it's just made a huge impact on me.
• 0:13
  Welcome to the Growth project. This is Doctor Miller. Louder and excited about today's episode. Before we dive in there, just a little bit, if this is your first time tuning into the podcast, the Growth Project is, a podcast produced by employees that is now powered by Elliot Davis.
• 0:27
  And employees really exist to help optimize who you are and what you do. Our primary goal was to help you be better for the things and people that matter most of your life, and help you pursue better for the things you really want to accomplish in your life. And this byproduct is an extension of our work. So excited today for our guest on the podcast,
• 0:45
  we have Lauren Marcus, who is a CEO of The Chosen Museum in Greenville. And I've been there for how long, know, five and a half years on this. Unbelievable. Five and a half years.
• 0:55
  And Nick Campbell from
• 0:56
  GBS Building Supply, the president. Yeah. And, so glad to have you. We have a 2023 graduate of ten for 12 and a 2025 graduate of.
• 1:05
  I'm sure you have a diploma is absolutely. Hey, we give you a lot of credit, Mel. It's good stuff. And and so today's episode is really highlighting, two of the people who invested so much in the process was the old saying, you only get out of something what you put into it and just wanted to kind of give our listeners a glimpse of the ten for 12 experience.
• 1:27
  The cohort experience had a millpond offsite, and I just learned a little bit about what that experience was like. What motivated you to join? What were some of the key takeaways and lessons? Hopefully a little bit of how they've influenced your life now as a mother of a two year old, now as a father and husband, as Anthony and a father of four, is that right?
• 1:49
  That's right. Yeah. Yeah. A couple of ballots and a couple at home. Yeah. And and just want to really think about how maybe some of these lessons and what we sell all the time. It doesn't happen through your loss at first. Everything you. Yeah. How you try to carry some of those forward. And so Lauren let's start with you a little bit.
• 2:04
  If you could remember back 2023, you were at the Children's Museum there for a couple of years and, and so what motivated you or take us back how you got to that point in your career, and what were you thinking at the time or whatever 12 would be relevant or helpful for you? Well, at that point, I had been at the museum about ten years, and it was a really kind of non-linear career path.
• 2:28
  I took a big departure out of a long career in corporate communications to work at a nonprofit, and that was fulfilling in a lot of ways, and wild and a little bit unpredictable in a lot of ways. And so what I realized is that at children's museums, while there are quite a lot in the country, there are not many nearby.
• 2:46
  So I was seeking a cohort group, Tempe Leadership Feel Less lonely, and I think it can be difficult at the top of any organization, in any industry to find people, to hold you accountable, to find people to cheer you on and encourage you and challenge you, when you need that. And I was really seeking a group having to do that.
• 3:05
  What hooked me about ten for 12 at that point in my career, in my life, was the fact that it was professional development, but also personal development, and I've not really experienced both of those things in one setting. And that means that really grooming personally or really grooming professionally, but not at the same time. And I'm sure we'll talk more about this, but I have been one of the biggest gifts in the program for me.
• 3:26
  I appreciate you saying that. You know, the loneliness piece. And, Nick, I'm sure you experienced that as well. One article I read not too long ago and said, the biggest problem that most of the youths complain about is loneliness. Yeah. And Andrew likes to talk a lot about the course of leadership. And one of the biggest also, if it's lonely at the top.
• 3:43
  Yeah. So great. So Nick, how about you. So you just you went through it last year. Yeah. And you, you know, as I've got to know, you are just seems to be hungry for growth mentally and physically. Your challenge. And you're still grappling. Yeah. Yeah. I'm young guy. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit about your career and a little bit of maybe even about GPS and yeah, motivated you to do a different 12 at the time.
• 4:04
  Yeah. No. You know, one thing for me is I try to think about being better, you know, kind of the goal of AMP was and really challenged myself every year. And our team how can we get better. And it was neat a young man that, I helped coach a Presbyterian wrestling, my volunteer coach there, he needed some sports psychology, and, and we stumbled on, you know, your group meal, and I just reached out on his behalf.
• 4:29
  But as I started looking into it, I was like, wow. This performance psychology is something that would really help me. And I know, and it's not just about helping me, but if it if it helps me, it helps our team, it helps our family, it helps every front that we're on. And and that's what the kind of results that you guys are delivering meal.
• 4:47
  And it's it's been very impactful not just at work but at home. And the teams that I coach, I really enjoy coaching and, you know, I've loved it. It's been fantastic. So, shout out to Trent Donahue, PC wrestling. He just graduated. But that's that's kind of how the journey started for me. And so now you're coaching baseball?
• 5:04
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. High school baseball. Back at it. I started I had a very on a lustrous career at the Citadel. But it taught me some lessons. Failure can can be one of the best teachers.
• 5:15
  when I got out of the Citadel, I started coaching high school baseball for about a eight year run.
• 5:20
  Maybe 7 or 8 years. And, family got a little bigger, so I had to had to tell back on that. But this year was the first, first year back in the seat at Hillcrest and started in J.D. got elevated to varsity quick. Hey, hey, we won the region. So it was good. So 12 we get you promoted from that's it from David, a varsity baseball coach.
• 5:39
  Real quick a big pay raise. Yeah, absolutely. The pay was unbelievable. So it was great man. But I just love being able to make an impact for the kids. And, you know, what we do is and
• 5:50
  what you all do is. So it just is so applicable to, to every side of, of not only sports but work, but family life.
• 5:58
  And it's just made a huge impact on me.
• 6:00
  Yeah. Well I appreciate that. Yeah. So it's fun for us. Again, the energy you guys both bring in, the excitement about it inspires us. I think that's that's what we talk about, the work we do. We want to inspire us. And if you're inspired, you're going to inspire anybody else.
• 6:13
  And so if you kind of look, it's been a couple of years for you and just kind of big picture, you talked about the loneliness. You talked about a connection. You talked about getting better personally and professionally now in a new role as a mom as well in what ways do you think you grew the most in that process?
• 6:30
  You know, I was really excited by the fact that our cohort was pretty diverse, especially in terms of professional experience. And I've done some things with my industry which I think has value and importance in any way, but to come to a group with a lot of different perspectives was really valuable and encouraged me to continue to pursue that after ten for 12.
• 6:52
  So if I'm up against a particularly unique challenge or stepping into a new role like motherhood, which is new for me, finding a group of folks that may not always be that obvious, that go to the group to provide some insight, that has been hugely valuable, especially professionally, to be honest. Good for grappling with something amazing.
• 7:12
  That's really good term facilities. I'm going to find a friend in the construction industry who will help me look at it and think through maybe what the solution might be differently. And I found so much value in that cohort model. And in our group in particular, being, you know, from across the spectrum of industries in our, in the upstate.
• 7:29
  And, I can reference this a little bit, but there was the commonality that everyone there was curious and was excited to learn. And I also think it helped me find that again. Post ten for 12. Find the people, even outside that kind of work, who have that same kind of curiosity and that same desire for continual improvement, even if it's incremental.
• 7:52
  It's just helped me build a better team, a better life team, and probably a better team at the museum. That hadn't really thought about it in that perspective. Lauren, as you're talking about the flashback to one of our meetings at mealtime, we almost had that exact same thing, that this is part of that curiosity. This is allowed you to dream.
• 8:09
  I don't want to put any words in your mouth, but I can almost visualize, that moment of awareness and that light bulb clicking and you could see that energy taking place. So I love that. That's still resonate. I think that's just a good lesson for all of us. It's so easy to, get in the same rhythm, the same routine.
• 8:27
  I can imagine the nonprofit world, it's so easy to get in a world where we are all facing the same challenges and you see the same problems, and they're difficult solutions to kind of open up outside of that and have a different lens from a for profit or a different industry with significant challenges, or somebody in a different state of life.
• 8:46
  I think that's a great perspective and something I think we all should do more. I totally agree. And I think a lot of what I find very interesting, having a few years removed from my experience, is also thinking about ways I'm applying what we talked about in that moment. I think I had a real moment around vision for our family.
• 9:03
  And no, that's not yeah, yeah, that's good. So much time on core values and brand and vision for the organization that hadn't really thought about it for us. And at that point children were not on our radar. We now have a daughter and and to adapt but not overhaul the vision that I created with the guidance of the employees team to apply to this new phase of life, which was a significant shift for us.
• 9:28
  Has also been really useful, and they'll be big professional chefs to come in for their personal chefs. But the principles and that foundation which that that I got so excited about, I'm still referencing, I told no earlier today. I keep my influence binder. It's been three and a half years, but it's right there on the walls.
• 9:46
  Yeah, it gets brushed off every now and then, and I think that's the really spirit of what we do with Dunwoody is that we can get so busy making a living, we forget about making a life. And and you wouldn't believe how many people we work with, just like you just referenced, that they know the vision of their company, they know the values.
• 10:02
  You know everything. It's such a professional base that they forget about what's really important and to kind of integrate both. And I love and I think one of the parts of the vision we don't ever just write. And so we don't have to kind of have to have a whole shake up. We just have to adapt to a new member of the family.
• 10:19
  That's right. Yeah, yeah. So we make how about you in terms of you just kind of recent graduate. Yeah. It took you four and a half. Yeah. No extra football season. No. Yeah. Yeah. Extra football season. If you think about how you really grew in terms of kind of where you where you came in and what you were hungry for, and you look at some of the growth and evolution.
• 10:38
  Yeah. What stood out to you the most? Yeah, I think the biggest thing that stood out to me was what I call the success formula that you instilled really in month one that I still use today. I ran a meeting in North Carolina today, and we and we worked on awareness action and accountability. And really I think about awareness a lot.
• 10:57
  And I think about creating awareness no matter what it is. You know, at work in, in different situations at home, you could be on a ball field. But, you know, many times I think of awareness and going to a mindset, do we have a growth mindset? Do we have a fixed mindset? And I just really follow that formula in a lot of things we do.
• 11:20
  And we really try to if we're going to make really good actions, we need to create great awareness and, you know, and that and that's something that that I think all of our team has gotten better at. We were better at being curious. We're better at asking questions. We're better at, you know, the five whys. We're big into continuous improvement.
• 11:39
  You know, we are we've gotten better at becoming aware and and I think that's given us a new perspective. And, you know, Lauren, I like what you said. Getting diversity of thought, opinion, having a group of people you can lean on. And and that's really been impactful for our team because especially in our industry, a lot of people think the way we've done it is, is the right way, and it's the way we're always going to do it.
• 12:02
  And that's kind of the there's not been a lot of innovation in the lumber world. We're actually a part of a bigger company. And we did a market integration. So we integrated some people into our market, if you would. And, we've got Jennings Building Supply for professional building supply, GBS, and we've got great companies, and it's been fantastic to see that divergence of thought.
• 12:24
  And then again, creating awareness that, hey, there's different ways to to have success. And that's been impactful for us. Been huge. Yeah. Well of course I'm biased to that. So I love hearing that. So I'm gonna put a question that you that you don't have to answer, but you can. So what what's something you've become more aware of in that program.
• 12:43
  And are you going to get the same question. Yeah. Right. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. No I can I think about yourself as a leader. Yeah. Yourself as a husband, but yourself as a father. What's something you become more aware of? I've become more aware that I'm unaware in a lot of areas. And and that's, that's impacted me to to ask more questions, to do more digging, to do a little more homework, you know, to reach out to other people.
• 13:09
  There, there. I think there's times where we move and we, we've we've made an assumption that this is the right thing and, and just, you know, and, and I go back to mindset to is it a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. And I think about a lot of times I think on a growth mindset, is this happening to me or is it happening for me.
• 13:28
  And I try to think about things when things aren't going my way. I say, you know what? This is not happening to me. This is happening for me, and I'm going to grow from this. I'm going to learn from this, whatever it is. And I've seen our team adapt that same idea, that same culture. And that's been huge.
• 13:42
  So, you know, I don't have all the answers, you know, and I and I know that and it takes a team. But when we work together, and when we do work together, we create something that I buy in, and, and when we get buy in, the actions really flow. And then we make it to the final part.
• 13:59
  Accountability. So, you know, it's just something that we're working on every day. We're never conquering it. It's something that we have to, you know, rents do every day. We don't own it. So you know, that's that's really been my I think I could really relate to that. I'm aware that I'm really unaware, in so many areas. And I think that's part of the program is how do you narrow the gap between who you are and who you want to be, right?
• 14:21
  Or who you are and your family to be, or who you are and who your company need you to be. Yeah. And I appreciate that. So I will throw it to you, Lauren. You know, as you look back and coming in, what did you become more aware about yourself as a leader, as a person, mother, spouse? I think I got a greater sense of the fact that I can be hyper focused and very competitive.
• 14:45
  That's a trait that comes up in any name. The personality test. And I will fixate and and often that leads to really great results and lots of productivity. And that can be value in that. But it can also be really detrimental. It balance is a word that is tricky to use, but yeah, it can throw a balance and life out.
• 15:00
  If I am just dogmatically pursuing this problem at work and probably not being the best spouse, the best friend these days, the best mother. And so there was a kind of web grid that we use. And that's one of the things that comes out of the binder often to check in and say, okay, have I had a glass of water today?
• 15:17
  Have I been on a walk? You know, sure, I have solved this problem and achieved X, Y, and Z, but have I done my have I had my Bible time in my spiritual fulfillment today and I needed some real prodding to recognize that I would have probably said everything was in balance, and I needed to be a lot more aware of when it wasn't.
• 15:38
  And the areas that are most prone to falling out of the priority list, and who that impacts. Sometimes it's impacting me personally. Sometimes it's impacting other people, my team or my family. And it's a really good reminder to check in with myself, trying to be as honest as I can with myself, and occasionally asking some other people to help on that accountability journey.
• 15:59
  I feel like I still have the blinders on and weren't being aware that I might be unaware. And so calling on people I trust and respect and love to say no, you really are a little out of sync and in this area I think you would really benefit for, you know, a break or time in the gym or a little bit more time with your devotionals and, and having the awareness that I need that accountability.
• 16:24
  But it's also a really great takeaway for me. Yeah. I think especially being a CEO and president, you know, it's easy to kind of help hold others accountable. It's harder to invite that in. Yeah. And and you're talking about that wellness. We always just say, where am I mentally and physically and spiritually and emotionally, religiously and behaviorally. And and I think part of it is there's areas of all of our lives.
• 16:44
  We do some of that really well at times. We do some of it poorly. And I think the balance comes from that. We'll okay, how do I how do I kind of make sure these areas of and important dimensions are taken care of, like a word that I've, I've stumbled upon. John Zoellick, I want to make sure I got his name right from IBS that he talked to me about Work-Life Harmony.
• 17:04
  I think that's where I heard a lot about that, that, that that that harmony between our work and our life creates a rhythm and a cadence because work life balance, even though we have that wellness wheel, I think just applies to me. I'm someone always out of balance. Yeah, but the harmony is just trying to find the rhythm and the cadence of what does that really feel like?
• 17:22
  How can I engage and disengage? Yeah, I think that's so true. That resonates with me at least, because, you know, I feel like there there's ebbs and flows and there are times when work is getting 80% of my attention. And I don't think that makes me a failure as a mother and spouse. But there are times that my child is getting 90% of my attention.
• 17:39
  I don't think that makes me a failure as a CEO. So that word balance can almost feel guilt ridden to me. Yeah, I love the thought of harmony within that on my desk. Let's go. But what I also hear in both of your we talked about shame and guilt being poor motivators. What I hear is a healthy sense of reflection and a sense of humility.
• 17:57
  You talk about curiosity. Yeah. Which are traits we love? Humility. Yeah. And giving yourself permission to be human. Yeah. I heard both. Did you kind of say that? It's like, hey, I don't have all the answers. I've gotten better at asking questions, and I'm not aware of that. Or, you know, I don't lack in it. I'm just human.
• 18:14
  Yeah. And I think, especially as a leader, when you give yourself permission to be human. Yeah. You give other people permission to be human as well. Yeah I agree. So when we look back, I love In the Grove and I love your honesty in the process. You know, we cover a lot of ground. We you know, we had you already mentioned the growth mindset and vision of values.
• 18:30
  One of my favorite grit and mental toughness. What else. Emotional intelligence. Gratitude is one. Yeah. Self-talk and primary beliefs. Yeah, it is another. When you think about all the ground that we call habits is one that really doesn't seem too exciting, but one that we talked about the that 40% of what we do want to do it like the basis we do without thinking.
• 18:52
  Yeah. We talked about success. Yeah. You know, how do you define success? Yeah. How do you truly define it and how do you live up to that. So, so when you think about all those topics, which one kind of resonated with you the most and what kind of still stays with you? Yeah, that's a tough question. I know.
• 19:13
  Lauren I got one. So every morning, I know I think about the habits. All right. The habits are huge.
• 19:20
  So we talk about habits and I think about if I want favorable outcomes, there's got to be good habits to it. So one habit I have every day is right on the side of my frigerator in the basement. I'll take my vitamins, do my, devotion.
• 19:35
  And then I've got the letter to myself that you got to write. I read the letter to myself. I try not to beat myself up too much. I try to go back to the vision and value in that, and it gives me some encouragement throughout the day. And if you would have told me that five years ago, write a letter to yourself and read it every day, I would have said that.
• 19:54
  That may sound a little hokey, but, you know, I and it's not a long letter. It's only about five lines, but it's a great reminder of when I'm in my way. You know, what I'm striving to do? And the vision, of, hey, this is what I'm chasing every day. It's not about me. It's about being better.
• 20:12
  It's about making other people better. It's about being a, you know, being great in the community, whichever community I'm in. So, you know, that's something that's really helped me. And I see it every day. I see the letter melt. So, you know, it's cool. I want to. Oh, you sleep in in the basement or just, you know, I, I'm down there early in the morning that they don't they don't want they don't want me to wake them up every morning.
• 20:30
  So I doing my jujitsu stuff in the morning a lot of times the constant reminders. Yeah. You know, and the lesson there, Nikki, if we don't paint a picture of who we want to be. Yeah. Your brain really wants to paint a picture of who you don't want to be. Right? And it's so easy to have that negative self-image, that negative identity that unfortunately, we develop that picture.
• 20:48
  Yeah. And the reason we paint a vision, the reason we paint the values of painters of what they are, here's what they look like. And here's this letter as a reminder, this is what's really important to me. Yeah. And it's not looking that with, guilt and shame. I think how we look at our rough at a vision is just a rough draft.
• 21:05
  Yeah, right. We're all a work in progress. Yeah, but I think I love how you've created a habit that sets the day for you. Yeah, yeah. And then the reflection inside is really okay. How did I do? Yeah, yeah, what I do. Well, today. What didn't go well? What did I learn in that process. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. How about you learn what kind of resonates with you?
• 21:24
  Thank you. For me, I have time again for you, I don't know. Good. We come back to you. Yeah. You know, well, just following that. Yeah. Something I think about often are when we talked about habits and goal setting, talking about being, you know, challenging yourself to be realistic. So I'm going to take liberties because it was the metaphor we used in class now, but not a lot in my life.
• 21:44
  But I'm going to pick up running shoes tomorrow. Maybe I shouldn't that the goal to run the marathon next month, but can I do five consistent days of running and and I've thought about applying that again. I'm not a runner, but to other parts of my life and being more measured, as I mentioned earlier, my personality would be I'm going to run a marathon in two months and I'm going to beat half the field and, and, and and it just sets up a level of pressure that doesn't allow the journey to be enjoyed, which I know we talked about so much.
• 22:13
  So I try to be aware I'm not, to check myself as I'm setting new targets and also be involved. But let me interrupt just there for a second, because what you're really coming back to is that lens of a growth mindset. When it's so easy to set a goal in comparison to others or in competition with others, that that that creates that performance based mindset that fixed mindset which increases anxiety and decreases confidence and adds pressure.
• 22:40
  You said it right? Yeah, those and goals should inspire you and motivate you and not add pressure. They should be aggressive, but still achievable. That's right. And and I think I would have a tendency to air into, you know, towards the unattainable just kind of inherently. And so the real coaching to come back to what can be achieved in finding lots of pride in that and setting goal 2.0 when I'm ready to go further.
• 23:04
  But but making it a much, much easier for me to enjoy the process, which is not always been the gift I have. Yeah. And then another thing I've really thought about is at different points over the past few years, who's serving the various roles we've talked about who's your who's your cheerleader, who's your accountability body, who's your challenger, who's your young enthusiasm in your life, and making sure that wherever possible, I keep that balance and and the names assigned to all of those roles have varied somewhat.
• 23:35
  But the fact that, again, kind of building that life team, but my board of directors in my world, has been a really consistent thought of mine and a great takeaway from that love. Who are you inviting? Yeah. And and what role are they playing? Yeah. And it does change over time. Yeah. And I think that's another thing.
• 23:52
  The older you get you just try to hold on and not we don't enjoy the process and we don't experience the opportunities right in front of us, or it's just happening, you know, for me or to me. Yeah. As life throws us, different challenges. Yeah, yeah. I'll come back to you if you have another one. Yeah. I mean, I could.
• 24:11
  Yeah. You know, I don't know this thinking about some other things. Like, one of the biggest things that hit me was, and I'm going to go back to our formula again, accountability at the end. And you and you mentioned it to like end of the day, like checking back in. I think that's our biggest challenge. And somebody in the cohort said it like, if you really want success, if there's one word that I could give you, it's accountability.
• 24:35
  Stay accountable. And that's the constant challenge that I think for, for all of us. And and it's something that I see it with my kids a lot. They do so many great things. And I think about, can you stay accountable? When I think about a continuous improvement, thing that we do call the to make process, the last thing is control.
• 24:55
  That's the hardest part that everyone can come up with. We can define it where it's going good. We can measure it, we can analyze, but can we control it? Can we do this for a long time? And I think about that accountability and how, you know, if we can drive accountability, if I can drive accountability within myself, within my teams, then we're going to be in such a better position.
• 25:14
  But that is a that's a constant pursuit. So, you know, I mean that's one that I'm it's always on my mind really. And it's the one we need is the one we don't like. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. You mentioned earlier it's harder to find. Yeah a lot of intentionality to seek it out. Yeah. It's easy to kind of get doing your thing.
• 25:33
  And so so let's talk about the mechanics a little bit. We try to be intentional with meal plan of creating 10 or 12 hours. We want to feel different. We want you to get you away from your day. It's a little bit of a drive from Greenville. We've had people come from Atlanta and Charlotte and Columbia. Yeah, and make the effort.
• 25:50
  Getting in with a cohort and having to be you know, you mentioned curious and humility, but you got to be vulnerable pretty quick. Yeah. They want is hey, tell us why you're here a little bit about your story. What do you hope to get out of this? Talk to me a little bit about maybe the experience going all side to millpond.
• 26:08
  Trying to build a connection with a group of strangers. What? What was comfortable about that? What was uncomfortable about that?
• 26:15
  I would say it was incredibly important for me personally. And I think my peers would say this to to get offsite to be a way, not to mention more so peaceful and beautiful, which was kind of icing on the cake.
• 26:27
  But our teams, we talked about this often. Our teams knew from nine to noon, can't get me. And our senior leadership team is still three years later putting phones in an Orange County. Oh, also. That's great. Oh, I love it. I love that meeting. Yes, I forgot about that mechanism of, you know, like we take the phone. Yeah.
• 26:45
  And that's essentially having the office with you. So when we really want time of focus strategy and and collaboration, those things go away. And that was really, really valuable. And I think the ability to be vulnerable, we shall not compare cohorts but mindset I love it, I love it, I love it okay. Team 2023 I love it.
• 27:06
  But I think it was something, something to the fact that we all knew we were there voluntarily. This wasn't some kind of industry licensure to check off. We were there because we wanted to be, because we wanted to learn, because we wanted to get better. And Nana, to the best of my memory, none of us were really working together.
• 27:24
  So there was also this ability to kind of just speak openly and know that it was a safe space and a trusted space, and that everyone was there to do the same thing. And I think that while our employers were very supportive of us being there, it wasn't a requirement. It was voluntary, and it was a group of people who wanted to grow and learn, just like I did.
• 27:45
  And so from the first second of Shaking hands when we walked in millpond, we knew there was something in common, which was our desire to get better and to help each other get better. And that made it really disarming for me. And I would say anyone who would know me, I think would agree with that. Vulnerability is not my strong I mean, I want I have a PR background, I want a polished presence and what are my talking points?
• 28:08
  And let's go and so I, I think that it speaks a lot. And I tell people this often, if it can be a place I can be vulnerable, I feel like truly anybody could get to a level of vulnerability and and I think what, what that creates would use that kind of chemistry connection and I think freedom of choice.
• 28:25
  I had thought about that the world to sort of be there, there, there becomes you can watch it develop in the cohort, a sense of accountability to each other. Yeah. And a sense of connection to each other. Yeah. We're checking in on what you said, but I want to be there. Not as much only for me, but I really am there for you.
• 28:43
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's something that continues on. I hope you'll get to see this and experience it. It's not quite something we can announce yet, but I'm working on a project at the museum with a member of our ten for 12 cohort as an advisor also. And still, when the phone rings and one of those names is on the screen, or an email pings in and at someone from ten for 12, we respond and react to each other and are every bit as supportive, three years removed as we were right in the middle of the process.
• 29:10
  Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I get what you're. So it's an experience, man, I love that. No, I mean, when we walk in the gate or when we go in the gate, not walk and we drive in, I mean, it takes you to a different place. I mean, we think, you know, here we are today in downtown Greenville, but we get to millpond.
• 29:25
  It's just like the stress fades a little bit. And that was, you know, a great start to the session because I think it, it backs everybody down a level. And then we get there and learn. To your point, when we put the phones in the bucket, it made me realize how much of life we miss sometimes because of the little phone in our pocket and how guilty I can be of of staying on email all the time, or text messages or feel like that.
• 29:51
  I've got to be on call, you know, 24 seven. It just it took me to a different place and it was a great reminder of what we can accomplish in three hours, because if we were distracted the whole time, we really wouldn't have gotten much out of it. But we were really locked in. We're really focused on, you know, the lesson for that month.
• 30:10
  And, and I would always enjoy just like you, I've got the binder. So I mean, I keep the binder with me. Yeah. I've got the binder that I wrote into. So I've got all my notes, you know, interact with the people in our cohort. So it's, it's something that's carried on and, you know, Mill Pines, a special place.
• 30:28
  It just, and I like to go bird hunt at Mill Pond, too, you know? I mean, I would love to come bird hunting there. So right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I it's a peaceful place to me. And I think that's what we want. And we know the brain is more open to experiences and possibilities in a new environment.
• 30:44
  Yeah. And part of we think how do we engineer that in an environment? I love that you took a little bit of mill Pond home with your Home Depot bucket that. Yeah, I hope you took one from Mill Pond, if not at all. $4. Yeah. And you put the phone in there, but I think you just we missed so much alive.
• 30:58
  Yeah, because we're so distracted. Yeah. In that I just did a podcast in the show with my daughter Emerson. Yeah. One of the challenges for me growing up, and she felt at times I was distracted. Yeah. When I was home. Yeah. And I don't have a Home Depot bucket at home. Yeah. Okay. You missed a little bit earlier that this is maybe different than what you would experience in terms of there's some personal development in your lives, which is how we first met, 8 or 10 years ago.
• 31:22
  There's some professional development that that this kind of integrated both in what ways was maybe this different than previous developmental opportunities that you guys had both experienced?
• 31:33
  For me, no, it was it was just that that they were integrated their outlets in my life where I feel like there was a lot of personal development that can happen.
• 31:41
  I find a lot of that through my faith. We we met because your wife was my wonderful Bible study for her, and that was a great outlet for personal growth. And, and, you know, challenges of getting married, starting a family. Those are all really great times to stretch. And I have good mentors on that side of life. And professionally, I feel like especially when an organization was investing in me, and this is across sectors and not specific to the museum, but there were very specific, measurable outcomes that were hoped for for the organization, for my growth.
• 32:10
  And I don't mean that as a slight, but it was just a very clear angle. I've learned this skill to improve whichever KPI we were working on improving at the time, and it was all for my betterment. But I never thought about how all of those pieces were clicking together until we were put in an environment where we thought about all of those pieces clicking together, and it gave me a little bit of freedom to think about how pursuing a hobby makes me a better CEO, or how better understanding my team and becoming a more thoughtful communicator and better leader influences my spiritual life.
• 32:51
  I have just never been guided through thinking about myself holistically and how all of those things are connected. And I don't know that I would have gotten there on my own. I have pursued other personal and professional development that I love and has been valuable, but still, I'm not finding it very common that all of those pieces are talked about at one time.
• 33:13
  But I appreciate you saying that. I think very simple philosophy better people have better leaders and better parents and better spouses and better partners and and putting those two together is really important. Yeah. In our work, I mean, I think people know me. The comment I've told our football team and concert for years, if all we do is make you a better football player, we failed you.
• 33:30
  Yeah. And I don't know what this says about me in a moment of honesty, but I think a lot of the other perceived personal and professional had have been focused on what the external impact was going to be. And I do you want to be a servant hearted leader and my own growth to translate to others and to be a better spouse and daughter and mom.
• 33:51
  But I have to say some of it was self-serving. I mean, I left feeling like I'm much more whole and content and equipped human. So I was benefiting personally through that. And of course there was external benefit, but I have not often again been through programs where it was okay to say, what are you going to get out of this?
• 34:12
  And how are you going to feel better and more whole and more equipped and restored? And so while a lot of what we learned translates to how we serve others better, it also helped me serve myself better. And that's hard has been hard for me to find any way. Well, especially in, in especially, you know, president, CEO husband, my wife, mother, father, coach, all those different roles.
• 34:38
  I there's been ample time for you. Yeah. And it takes a lot of courage because it seems selfish to flip the paradigm and say it's okay to give myself or to take care of me, to lead myself. Because it takes energy to lead. Yeah. And it's hard to give something you don't have. Yeah. And and it seems self-serving, you know, even, you know, is there any such thing as true altruism?
• 35:01
  Right, right. Because it's, it is better to give them, you know, there's there's some great benefit for that. But unlike with the pressure, all that we all chose to be there is what you're saying. And it gave you a chance to say, hey, this is how can I grow that? Who I am becoming in this incident is more important than what I am accomplishing, right?
• 35:20
  How about how about you? Well, one thing that was really different. And, you know, Lauren, I'm sure you've been through different cohorts, different things. When you go to ten for 12, it is an amazing experience. Content's fantastic. You all could read us like a book. You knew and you never said it and you never. You're y'all are so humble.
• 35:41
  But like, I knew that when I walked in the door, man, it doesn't take long for me to figure out exactly MC Campbell who he is, what he's doing. I mean, this is this is the this is the top of the shelf psych psychology. This psychology degree is coming in. And man, you all knew everybody in the room and you knew how to get more out of us.
• 36:03
  And that's a skill that you don't see in other learning environments. So a lot of times they're going to give you information, you, you all have a 3D dimension where you not only are fantastic at giving the information and helping us sort through it, you know, us and you could read us like a book, and you never said that.
• 36:23
  But I could tell. And I'm like, this is you're taking us down a path and we call it at work. We call it the Invisible Hand. How, you know, we want to influence people. We want buy in. We want we want to do those things. You all were fantastic at it, and it was better than any other program that I've ever seen.
• 36:40
  So thank you so much. You killed it when they got online. How much of that amount of psychology? I see a lot of me and you and a lot of you. And so I read it was easy to record. There's there's some strings there and there's some things we probably got to. Yeah. Work on the edges. So your badge is one that sticks out.
• 36:56
  Yeah. So so I didn't think about asking this question, but I appreciate what you said. What can make it better. Like what what can we do to make the experience better. We need a part two. I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, I think we just got to keep, keep, keep the fire running. And, and we're doing it like we've got a, I've got a team member from, from my workplace.
• 37:16
  It's in ten for 12. Hopefully we'll have one next year. You know, I'm going to we're definitely going to submit some people, you know, and there may be another program, you know, ten for 12, part two. You know, you know, I mean, there's I think we just keep going on the track, we keep building on the foundation that we've already got.
• 37:34
  I think that's the key. So for me anyway, I think,
• 37:37
  A big tip for your listeners is to have your spouse go through another cohort. Yeah. That's good. Forgot about that. That's good. Just forgot about it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So my husband I think it's important not to do it together. I'll say that it's really important that we be in different cohorts.
• 37:52
  But what that brought to mind was I have a real desire to meet the folks who have been in other cohorts. I've already taken two notes from Nick today on things I'm going to do with my team when I get back to the office. So to be able to learn from more than just the 12 we were or ten we were with for those 12 months, and and whether it's an informal happy hour or once a year reunion, I would love to connect better with the folks who are outside of my cohort who still share the same values and desire to learn and grow because, like I said, put us together for four
• 38:25
  minutes and I think in each other's brains and growing and learning, even shared experience, not at the shared time. Yeah, still has a lot of value. Yeah, yeah. I think you went through first and then I think you said and then he's got to go through. If I remember correctly, I did. He was so he was inspired by what he saw me doing and what he heard.
• 38:43
  I have to say, it's also a great way to get accountability because we both know what each other have done and been challenged to do, and can keep each other accountable that way. That's cool. Yeah. What, you know, one of the things that and I and I can't remember that some courts have done it really well, some of not.
• 38:59
  It's kind of fun times in between. Yeah. And and I don't know if you guys had that with your cohorts or not. I think you did. Yeah. What was it. What was that like the kind of meet when we weren't meeting kind of all side. Maybe going to grab coffee or or getting together or somebody say, how's your both experience?
• 39:17
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, we I mean, it was great. I mean, we would meet for great at Grateful Brew Pleasant Burg. Hang out for a little bit, get to know somebody you know, a little bit better. Tackle some maybe some work problems that people have. And, you know, it just it deepen the relationships. And we would get to the cohort, you know, we knew each other a little bit better.
• 39:35
  We were able to you talk through some things. I think that's an important piece of the, you know, you know, piece of the puzzle there. And John was amazing just so that because he was great at it, I mean, he got he was like, I yeah, yeah, he's our ringleader, man. Yeah. He drove it well. And and it was great, you know.
• 39:53
  And he's got a gift for that. You know, he's in commercial real estate, great networker. And, you know, it just showed up in our cohort. So, you know, he did a did a great job with it. And, well, we wouldn't stop meeting, so I think we might be the one and only ten for 16 or for 20.
• 40:10
  We just kept on going. Not always for three hours after our our session ended, but we pretty consistently for the next 6 or 8 months got together. Whoever was available, you know, that day and then it's been, you know, a little bit more informal since then, but I think it speaks highly to the relationships that you want to be with people beyond that set and structured time, and you want to keep the conversations going.
• 40:33
  And in our case, a few years later, new opportunities and challenges and life happenings are taking place for everyone. And we didn't want it to stop. So ten for 20 might be like, yeah, yeah, part two. We are looking at different ways of kind of teaching in cohorts, different levels, different populations, different industries, to bring that, that cohort experience to life.
• 40:55
  One of the things that I think I'm so encouraged by and inspired by both of you is, you know, we have a lot of ideas and we've we've taught these things for a long time. But to watch a group of people come together and really work on integrating these thoughts and ideas to make them your own, and how do I implement them in my life?
• 41:12
  You know, you're living my life. Thank goodness you were you were trying to do that. But but putting it to work for you. And then I think that's the beauty of getting together without us. Okay. What's this look like? What's it mean? What are these challenges that we're facing and how do we address that in different areas?
• 41:28
  And I'm curious, like what you found, but I found that we were, we were often calling on each other for professional support, but also gotten a sense of who was really strong in different personal areas, who had different characteristics or personalities to kind of help us tackle how to be a little bit more extroverted in certain settings or, yeah, great communicators who could help us think through having a challenging conversation that we needed to have.
• 41:52
  And so it was a great resource beyond work. And I think often networking or kind of development experiences do really center around, hey, let's solve this business problem together. But we really pretty committed to helping each other solve life problems too, and recognizing where each had value, but gaps that we needed some help filling. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's like some of the hidden value in this is the life part of it and how impactful it is just outside of work.
• 42:24
  I mean, it's fantastic at work, but the life part is sometimes to me, a little more challenging to to get the four children I have to, you know, try to impart some wisdom on their great kids. But, you know, there's just, the I don't know I don't know what it is. They don't they don't buy some of that stuff like some other people did.
• 42:43
  Yeah. I know, to be honest with my son. 1013 like you didn't go to the first time like last year I listened to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good. Yeah, yeah. That's a that's a good point. Yeah. So kind of one final question. Any college or question you have for me, but you know, we're getting ready to kind of kind of start, developing and put together this next cohort for next year.
• 43:03
  If you had somebody kind of sitting on the fence or somebody came to you and said, hey, should I really do this or not do this, what what advice or what would you communicate to them? Very simply, just do it. I think there's, there can be a lot it can be easy to find a reason not to.
• 43:20
  And you just have to stop yourself from doing that. We are all busy. We all have multiple commitments and a lot of places we can invest time, financial resource. You just have to pull the trigger on it. And I think that that's going to pay dividends, some of which we've talked about today. From a leadership perspective, especially if it is someone who is running their organization.
• 43:42
  We don't get some of those employee engagement buckets filled the way we are filling them for others. And even maybe short of being an owner or founder, we are all employees of the organizations that we run. It's kind of some of the same things that Gallup tells us to do for our employees. We need them for ourselves.
• 44:00
  And I find that it's really worth the investment to do that. And you have to look outside your organization often to get that, get that done. And, so much of what we said today is proof of the return on the investment. But it's just do it because we can all find a million reasons not to. Yeah.
• 44:21
  You know, for me, it's like, you know, I reflect and melt. We both have a freshman at Clemson this year, and we look back at pictures of those girls and they're, you know, if we look back ten years ago and they're, they're they're small, you know, children and you think, man, this happened so quick. And I think about life happens so quick.
• 44:41
  And why not be the best version of yourself? Why not give yourself a chance to be great and you've got an opportunity to to go now. And I would say if you get to do ten for 12, you need to do it because it's going to change your life. It's going to change your work situation. But more importantly, it's going to change things outside of work.
• 45:00
  And and really, I think that's where the winning takes place. I think about the teams that I coach, whether it's wrestling, whether it's baseball, grappling, whatever. If you really want to make a difference, make a difference in somebody's life. And I think that that's your mission at Clemson is to not just make them a good football player, but but make them a great person.
• 45:18
  And that's what ten for 12 gives you. It gives you an opportunity to be a great person and just to help someone else. Always think about it at the planes going down, you know, I've got to put them oxygen mask on me first. I can't help anybody else if I'm if I'm laying on the floor passed out, I'm done.
• 45:35
  So, you know, ten for 12, we'll give you the oxygen you need to help other people. Awesome. Well, I can't thank you enough. This has been a great little reunion. You guys had never met before, so. Yeah. Great. Each need you here to share language in the common experience. And and and I love, you know, there's no greater gift than people give us.
• 45:54
  Is one who trust us enough to invite us into their life. And let us be a witness to their growth and hopefully a partner in that process. So thank you guys for sharing your story, sharing your experience. Just really appreciate your coming here today. And for our listeners, I hope you're encouraged and inspired by people like you that have a sense of curiosity, a sense of humility, and a passion for being better and pursuing better in their life.
• 46:18
  And we hope you can say the same. And until next time, do just that. Thank you.