Latest / Drive with John Perlman / How will the Democratic Alliance fix issues in 702 land ?

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How will the Democratic Alliance fix issues in 702 land ? · Drive with John Perlman

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  Speaker 1: Your rates, your services, your reality.
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  Speaker 2: Follow the local government elections on 702 Cape Talk and EWN.co.za.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: 702 Drive, it's 19 minutes past four over this week,
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  Speaker 2: and next we will be engaging with various political parties
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  Speaker 2: seeking to get your vote in the local government elections
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  Speaker 2: coming up in the first week of November. Focusing in
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  Speaker 2: particular on what their thoughts are about how we can
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  Speaker 2: fix metropolitan governments, three metros right here in Gauteng, and
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  Speaker 2: of course the metros in other parts of South Africa
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  Speaker 2: as well. To take this conversation forward, we're now joined
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  Speaker 2: on behalf of the Democratic Alliance by the DA's mayoral
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  Speaker 2: candidates in Johannesburg. Helen Ziller, good afternoon to you and
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  Speaker 2: thank you for your time.
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  Speaker 1: Good afternoon, Papa John. That's what I hear they call
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  Speaker 1: you at the radio station, so I had to have
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  Speaker 1: a laugh at that. I'm a go-go and now you're
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  Speaker 1: a papa.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, entate, John, actually is what they call me, but
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  Speaker 2: close enough. Miss Zilla, one of the things that you highlight,
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  Speaker 2: and I thought we would start with the money, and
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  Speaker 2: you believe this could make a huge difference, is what
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  Speaker 2: you call ending catered deployment in local government. It's an
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  Speaker 2: issue the DA has dealt with before. How difficult, though,
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  Speaker 2: would that be to implement if you don't have an
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  Speaker 2: absolute majority? If you're in a coalition, I would have
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  Speaker 2: thought that delivering that kind of shake-up would be a
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  Speaker 2: lot more difficult. And the numbers are suggesting that coalitions
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  Speaker 2: are where you're heading in a number of places.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the most difficult thing is going to be to
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  Speaker 1: stabilize the finances of Joburg. Joburg is owed 81 billion rand.
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  Speaker 1: And it owes its creditors 25 billion rand. And currently,
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  Speaker 1: there isn't enough money to put fuel into vehicles, to
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  Speaker 1: buy any spare parts for substations. I can go on.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, there is no money. And even worse than
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  Speaker 1: cable deployment, although the two things are closely linked, is
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  Speaker 1: the rampant corruption in Joburg. So.
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  Speaker 2: Dealing with that would take some time, but just to
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  Speaker 2: return to where I started with the first question, if
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  Speaker 2: you don't have an absolute majority and invariably in a coalition,
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  Speaker 2: you would have to accommodate not just the policies, but
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  Speaker 2: also the people of whoever help you to govern. How
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  Speaker 2: much do you expect that would tie your hands to
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  Speaker 2: take some of the bolder steps that your manifesto outlines?
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  Speaker 1: Well, a coalition always ties your hands. A coalition is
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  Speaker 1: never good. If you want to implement a clear turnaround strategy,
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  Speaker 1: which we have, we've got a financial recovery plan. We've
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  Speaker 1: got a water recovery plan. We've got a range of
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  Speaker 1: different strategies that we would like to implement. And a
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  Speaker 1: coalition always makes that terribly difficult. And these large coalitions
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  Speaker 1: with nine parties attached in which parties of one or
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  Speaker 1: two people can bring down the government are it is
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  Speaker 1: so inherently unstable and so driven by factors that have
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  Speaker 1: actually nothing to do with good governance that it makes
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  Speaker 1: it extremely difficult.
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  Speaker 2: I want to start looking at some of the areas
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  Speaker 2: of particular interest. For example, in regard to water, and
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  Speaker 2: you've got some maintenance plans that I'll talk about in
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  Speaker 2: a moment, but you talk about cutting off services, and
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  Speaker 2: this would apply to electricity as well, I would think,
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  Speaker 2: for those who refuse to pay. How are you going
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  Speaker 2: to assess that? I mean, there are obviously some people
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  Speaker 2: who can and won't. There are some people who would
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  Speaker 2: but can't. And then I would think, particularly in tough
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  Speaker 2: economic times, there's a whole gray area where there's a
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  Speaker 2: struggling business or a family where someone was earning well
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  Speaker 2: but has now lost that job. I mean, do you
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  Speaker 2: have a sense of how you could nuance that? Because
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  Speaker 2: my sense is if you don't, you may struggle to
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  Speaker 2: actually get support for the measure.
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  Speaker 1: Well, in Cape Town, we have a free basic services package.
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  Speaker 1: And ironically, even though Cape Town is a lot smaller
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  Speaker 1: than Jo'burg, we have about double the number of people
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  Speaker 1: on the extended social package in Cape Town. So we
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  Speaker 1: would start finding people who genuinely deserve a proper free
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  Speaker 1: basic services package and make sure they apply and make
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  Speaker 1: sure they get on us. There'll be a big drive
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  Speaker 1: to achieve that. There are lots of people who can
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  Speaker 1: pay but won't or don't. And if there is a problem,
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  Speaker 1: people must come in. The trouble is the billing system
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  Speaker 1: is so chaotic. And often people who don't pay, don't
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  Speaker 1: pay because they just can't believe the bills they're getting.
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  Speaker 1: And if they come in and want to make arrangements,
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  Speaker 1: they're told to pay an acknowledgement of debt And they
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  Speaker 1: don't want to do that because, you know, sometimes their
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  Speaker 1: bills are one and a half million rand. I've seen
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  Speaker 1: that with my own eyes. And so that is why
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  Speaker 1: people say, you know, I can't go into this. This
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  Speaker 1: is not my bill and it's a major problem for me.
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  Speaker 1: So we have to fix the billing system. That is
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  Speaker 1: really a number one priority. And make sure that the
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  Speaker 1: system is adequately applied so that the indigent get support
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  Speaker 1: and those who can afford to pay do pay.
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  Speaker 2: I'm looking at, and this is an idea that's come
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  Speaker 2: from many, many different quarters. It's pushed strongly at a
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  Speaker 2: national level, ensuring that the money paid for water and
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  Speaker 2: electricity is spent on water and electricity. What I wanted
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  Speaker 2: to ask you about, though, is when you talk about
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  Speaker 2: this not being done, you say that this is because
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  Speaker 2: it's being diverted to pay salaries, plug budget holes, or
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  Speaker 2: simply stolen by corrupt officials. Most people would support this.
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  Speaker 2: your remedy, if indeed it was to avoid doing those things.
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  Speaker 2: But isn't this just merely a reflection of the cash-strapped
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  Speaker 2: nature of metro municipalities in general, that people are getting
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  Speaker 2: money from wherever they can? And yes, if you do
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  Speaker 2: ring-fence that money, you will have severe problems in other areas, like,
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  Speaker 2: for example, fixing roads where there is no direct user payment.
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  Speaker 1: John, there is one metro municipality that is not cash-strapped
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  Speaker 1: at all. In fact, over the next three years, it's
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  Speaker 1: spending 42 billion rand of its own money on infrastructure
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  Speaker 1: primarily for the poor. And that is the one city
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  Speaker 1: that hasn't stolen the money, and that is Cape Town, obviously.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, in Joburg, tenders are so inflated that it
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  Speaker 1: beggars belief. You may remember that we, for example, gave
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  Speaker 1: an entire water system to a place called Water Wax.
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  Speaker 1: When I went there, the people that had no water
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  Speaker 1: for 15 years, Joburg Water, came last September, said they
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  Speaker 1: were going to drill a borehole. They worked on the
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  Speaker 1: project for about two weeks and then abandoned the project,
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  Speaker 1: as always happens. And when I saw that, I said, no,
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  Speaker 1: we have to finish that project. And I got engineers
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  Speaker 1: in and I got various people in. And we did
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  Speaker 1: the whole thing with water purifiers, with sun panels, with manifolds,
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  Speaker 1: with pipes, with JoJo tanks, the whole lot for 2.6
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  Speaker 1: million rand.
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  Speaker 2: But just to come back to the question, and I
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  Speaker 2: think your point in regard to Cape Town is made,
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  Speaker 2: but if you are going to ring fence water revenue
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  Speaker 2: and electricity revenue, do you accept that that may well
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  Speaker 2: leave you short of money to, for example, fix roads
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  Speaker 2: until you've managed to address all the other things? It's
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  Speaker 2: not as if all the money that comes, for example,
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  Speaker 2: out of water revenue is simply being wasted. It's being
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  Speaker 2: used for genuine needs, right?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'll just quickly finish the point that I was making.
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  Speaker 1: Just for the taps and the manifolds, the city was
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  Speaker 1: going to pay 37 million rand.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: For 7% of that, we've delivered the whole project. Now,
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  Speaker 1: that is why people end up being cash strapped. And
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  Speaker 1: huge amounts of that money is diverted and spent on
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  Speaker 1: all sorts of things. So, obviously, we won't ring-fence the
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  Speaker 1: whole amount, but it'll be substantially ring-fenced to at least 70%
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  Speaker 1: of the money that comes in for water. Because that
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  Speaker 1: is a primary number one responsibility of local government. There
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  Speaker 1: are lots of things that are nice to have in
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  Speaker 1: local government that are not fundamental constitutional rights, as water is.
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  Speaker 1: And so we're going to have to have a hierarchy
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  Speaker 1: of needs, I'm afraid. We're going to say, what are
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  Speaker 1: the most important things? Water, electricity, roads, refuse removal, all
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  Speaker 1: that stuff.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Helen Ziller, DA Mayoral Candidates. Part two
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  Speaker 2: of what we will do as at least a ten-part
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  Speaker 2: engagement with political parties, looking at their comments on crucial
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  Speaker 2: issues affecting our metros, and we're focusing in on water, electricity,
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  Speaker 2: the management of finance, and roads and potholes. That's pretty
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  Speaker 2: much the menu that we'll put to each of them,
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  Speaker 2: as I said, tomorrow, the United Democratic Movement, the UDM.
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  Speaker 2: 28 minutes past four.