Latest / Coffee In The Park with Jennifer and Cam / A Coffee with Heather MacCallum Former CEO of NCSG/Barnhart

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A Coffee with Heather MacCallum Former CEO of NCSG/Barnhart · Coffee In The Park with Jennifer and Cam

• 0:12
  Well, good morning, everybody, and welcome to another edition of the ABA Coffee In The Park.
• 0:16
  My name is Cam Milliken, and I am here with my co-host extraordinaire, Jennifer Herrick, the Executive Director of the Acheson Business Association.
• 0:24
  Hi, Jennifer.
• 0:25
  Good morning, Cam.
• 0:26
  How are you this morning?
• 0:27
  It's a great day.
• 0:29
  The snow's melting.
• 0:30
  That's what's got me really excited.
• 0:32
  I know, eh?
• 0:33
  We thought spring was here.
• 0:35
  Now, in all fairness to everybody, we should tell you, we are recording this episode on April Fools.
• 0:40
  It's April 1st.
• 0:42
  It is April 1st.
• 0:42
  So I was thinking of something I could tell you that would be really good April Fools joke.
• 0:46
  But I wouldn't have believed you.
• 0:47
  You wouldn't have believed me anyways because you don't believe when I tell you the truth. It's true, this is the truth.
• 0:49
  So it's like, yeah, that wouldn't have gone over very well.
• 0:53
  Anyway, we want to tell everybody that we are coming to you live from the Wall Coffee Roasters in the heart of beautiful downtown Acheson.
• 1:03
  So hey, if you hear some noises in the background, some machines whirring, some people talking, some kids screaming, it's because we're live right here in the coffee shop.
• 1:11
  So don't mind that, and if you've never been to the Wall Coffee Roasters, you need to get in your car and you need to drive to the Wall Coffee Roasters for some amazing coffee and just the great environment to hang out.
• 1:22
  Jennifer, tell us about some amazing people.
• 1:25
  We would like to thank our gold corporate sponsors, which include the Myshak Group of Companies, Genics, Parkland County, and Bow Valley Credit Union.
• 1:33
  That's right.
• 1:33
  Without them, we would not be able to do what we do.
• 1:37
  And I am very excited for today.
• 1:40
  So, Jennifer, I think we should just get right into it.
• 1:42
  So do I.
• 1:42
  All right.
• 1:43
  So why don't you introduce our guests to us?
• 1:45
  As we talk about, and we've had some amazing female business leaders on our podcast.
• 1:52
  Yes, we have.
• 1:53
  This is another one.
• 1:55
  And I'm so excited she said yes.
• 1:56
  Oh, it's great.
• 1:58
  So our guest today is Heather MacCallum.
• 2:01
  So welcome, Heather.
• 2:02
  Hey, Heather.
• 2:03
  Good to have you here.
• 2:03
  Thank you! Excited to be here.
• 2:04
  Yeah.
• 2:05
  Glad you're here.
• 2:05
  It's awesome.
• 2:06
  Okay, Heather, we're kicking it off.
• 2:08
  The question we always start out with.
• 2:10
  Ask everything.
• 2:11
  Yeah, everybody gets this question.
• 2:13
  They do.
• 2:13
  Heather, where were you born and where did you grow up?
• 2:17
  Yeah, so not too far from here.
• 2:18
  I was born in Edmonton and raised in Spruce Grove.
• 2:22
  So my family's been in Spruce Grove their entire life.
• 2:26
  So Acheson has been kind of a steady Eddie, in how I grew up.
• 2:31
  I passed it every time I went to my grandparents.
• 2:33
  What high school did you go to?
• 2:34
  Spruce Grove Comp.
• 2:35
  Spruce Grove Comp.
• 2:37
  Yes.
• 2:37
  I asked this question of everybody.
• 2:40
  She laughs, but it's okay.
• 2:41
  What was the mascot at Spruce Grove Comp?
• 2:44
  A panther?
• 2:45
  A panther.
• 2:46
  She got it. I think?
• 2:47
  She got it.
• 2:48
  Go Panthers.
• 2:49
  I mean, I played sports, but we never had a mascot.
• 2:52
  You didn't have a mascot.
• 2:53
  I know.
• 2:54
  Okay.
• 2:54
  But go Panthers.
• 2:55
  Go Grove Comp.
• 2:56
  Yeah, that's awesome.
• 2:57
  Cool.
• 2:57
  All right.
• 2:58
  So and what happened after high school?
• 3:01
  Where you graduated and what happened to you then?
• 3:04
  I immediately went to university or college, I guess.
• 3:08
  I started at Grant MacEwan.
• 3:09
  Oh.
• 3:09
  Thought I was going to be a high school teacher.
• 3:12
  Yeah.
• 3:12
  Math.
• 3:13
  Love the math.
• 3:14
  Okay.
• 3:14
  And then I got out of high school and realized, why would I ever go back there?
• 3:20
  So immediately changed.
• 3:24
  You loved math.
• 3:25
  Because that amazes me.
• 3:26
  You love it.
• 3:26
  Like, were you a math geek?
• 3:28
  Yes.
• 3:29
  You were.
• 3:29
  I was.
• 3:30
  I did Math 31.
• 3:31
  I loved it.
• 3:31
  Math 31.
• 3:32
  I only dreamed of Math 31.
• 3:35
  I saw all my friends go to Math 31.
• 3:37
  I was still in like Math 11.
• 3:39
  So that's pretty amazing.
• 3:40
  So, okay.
• 3:41
  So you're a math geek.
• 3:42
  I was a math geek.
• 3:43
  I took Calculus, realized I'm not a math geek.
• 3:47
  Oh, okay.
• 3:47
  It was also at eight o'clock in the morning.
• 3:49
  Yeah.
• 3:50
  Not a good time to do math.
• 3:52
  So I pivoted and I had spoken to my dad's friend.
• 3:56
  He was an accountant and he just basically said, if you become an accountant, you can do anything.
• 4:01
  You can be a teacher if you want, you can work anywhere, do anything.
• 4:06
  So I didn't like the idea of having to make a choice.
• 4:09
  Okay.
• 4:10
  So I pivoted and went into accounting.
• 4:13
  Oh.
• 4:14
  Did you become a full-blown accountant?
• 4:16
  Like a 100% account?
• 4:17
  100% nerd.
• 4:19
  I reconciled my budget yesterday.
• 4:22
  So yeah, it's very true to who I am.
• 4:25
  Yeah.
• 4:25
  No, they're the best.
• 4:26
  We couldn't live without them, that's for sure.
• 4:28
  We need them, but they're kind of, and I'm just saying, they're kind of unique sometimes.
• 4:32
  But I watched that movie, The Accountant, and that was, have you seen that?
• 4:32
  I haven't even see it, I know.
• 4:37
  Maybe don't watch it, it's like, anyways.
• 4:40
  Okay, so that's kind of cool.
• 4:41
  So did you graduate getting your accounting degree from MacEwan then?
• 4:45
  Or did you go to?
• 4:46
  At that time, you had to go to U of A.
• 4:48
  So I did two years at Grant Mac and then transferred to the U of A.
• 4:53
  Okay.
• 4:53
  And then I started working at Ernst & Young as an auditor, as kind of most accountants do at that age.
• 4:58
  And then there was two paths.
• 5:00
  There was an at night evening program called CASB at the time, or there was a master's program at the University of Saskatchewan, where you took two summers off and went and studied there.
• 5:10
  And that's what I did.
• 5:11
  So I got my master's there.
• 5:12
  So I just want to ask this question, because I know people who have become accountants.
• 5:16
  And it's tough.
• 5:18
  Like when you first start out, right?
• 5:20
  Like you're working like 30 hours a day, right?
• 5:23
  It can be very challenging depending on the firm.
• 5:25
  When I started, for sure, there was expectations of minimum hours, very busy, kind of pushing you all the time.
• 5:33
  You have to have your billable hours, right?
• 5:36
  And you're tracking your life in six-minute increments.
• 5:38
  I don't miss that at all.
• 5:40
  I was going to say after all that, you still wanted to be an accountant.
• 5:43
  Like, wow, that's incredible.
• 5:45
  And your first two to three years, you're studying on the side while working.
• 5:49
  So it can be a lot.
• 5:50
  Yeah, a lot going on.
• 5:51
  That's incredible.
• 5:52
  Yeah.
• 5:53
  All right.
• 5:53
  Yeah.
• 5:54
  Okay.
• 5:54
  So you were at Ernst & Young?
• 5:56
  Yes.
• 5:56
  And then so how long were you there?
• 5:58
  You said a couple of years?
• 5:59
  Yeah, I stayed until I was a manager and I'd kind of moved into more of the project consulting space and then being a very kind of cocky, arrogant, 20-something year old.
• 6:11
  I thought I could do this myself.
• 6:13
  Yeah.
• 6:14
  I love that.
• 6:15
  So I left and I started my own consulting practice.
• 6:19
  Yeah.
• 6:20
  And I did that for a couple of years and it was great, except I worked way more than I ever were.
• 6:29
  It was a lot.
• 6:30
  And I ended up covering a maternity leave for Jacqui Konlup at NCSG/Barnhart and then traveling for about six months after.
• 6:40
  And when I came back, I realized I wanted to be integrated into the team and the team part was the best part of the job, not the... constant working.
• 6:50
  So where did you travel to unwind?
• 6:53
  South America and Antarctica.
• 6:54
  Did you? Whoa whoa whoa....
• 6:56
  Antarctica.
• 6:57
  Yes.
• 6:58
  Come on.
• 6:59
  Yes.
• 6:59
  Serious.
• 7:00
  Serious.
• 7:00
  Okay, tell us about that.
• 7:01
  You walked with the penguins.
• 7:04
  I had penguins, baby penguins trying to feed me.
• 7:06
  They were regurgitating their lunch up for me.
• 7:09
  Because they...
• 7:11
  Okay.
• 7:12
  Well, that's another podcast we'll talk about.
• 7:16
  Are you serious?
• 7:17
  Yes.
• 7:18
  Yeah.
• 7:18
  Wow.
• 7:18
  Yeah.
• 7:19
  So my husband and I...
• 7:20
  Why the Antarctica?
• 7:22
  We were traveling a couple of years previous doing the Machu Picchu hike.
• 7:26
  And a couple of Australians really put us on to it.
• 7:29
  And it was amazing.
• 7:30
  So it's about seven days.
• 7:32
  It takes a couple of days to cross the Drake Passage.
• 7:35
  And then you do kind of an iceberg tour and you do a landing every day.
• 7:41
  And you see seals and whales.
• 7:43
  And like, we went to one colony that had half a million penguins at it.
• 7:47
  The sound was incredible.
• 7:49
  Unbelievable.
• 7:50
  Yeah.
• 7:50
  Because the only penguins I know, oh, the movie, the animated movie.
• 7:54
  I was going to say.
• 7:55
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:56
  And then at West Edmonton Mall, they have a penguin who walks around sometimes.
• 7:59
  But this is incredible.
• 8:01
  So they say, this is what they say.
• 8:03
  I've heard this.
• 8:04
  If you go to Antarctica, the next stop honestly is the moon.
• 8:08
  Because there's really, where else are you going to go, right?
• 8:10
  So how long were you in Antarctica?
• 8:13
  Just for that cruise.
• 8:14
  Just like a week.
• 8:15
  Really?
• 8:16
  Yeah.
• 8:16
  Wow.
• 8:17
  That's fascinating.
• 8:18
  Is crossing the Drake as scary as they say sometimes?
• 8:22
  Did you have those huge waves in rough seas?
• 8:25
  Yes, but they have a candy bowl of seasickness pills that make you pretty drowsy.
• 8:30
  So it's mostly just a bunch of zombies kind of like waddling around on the boat.
• 8:35
  So those days are a bit of a blur because you mostly sleep.
• 8:41
  Better that than hanging over the rail.
• 8:44
  But nonetheless, that's incredible.
• 8:46
  In South America, you said?
• 8:48
  Yes.
• 8:49
  So where in South America did you go?
• 8:50
  We covered a lot of ground.
• 8:52
  So we did Argentina, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, Uruguay, Bolivia.
• 9:01
  I'm sure I missed something in this. Brazil.
• 9:02
  You did the whole thing from top to bottom.
• 9:05
  All the way down to Antarctica.
• 9:06
  Yeah.
• 9:06
  We just avoided the countries when we weren't allowed in.
• 9:08
  Right.
• 9:09
  Yeah.
• 9:09
  Other than that.
• 9:10
  No, that was a good move.
• 9:11
  Yeah.
• 9:11
  That was a wise choice.
• 9:13
  Yeah.
• 9:13
  You wouldn't probably be here today telling us this story.
• 9:16
  But anyway.
• 9:16
  Wow.
• 9:17
  And how long did you spend in South America?
• 9:19
  About four or five months, something like that.
• 9:21
  Just traveling and seeing things and hanging out.
• 9:25
  My husband and I have a pattern of doing a travel reset.
• 9:29
  So we like to do big long trips and just reset our lives, figure things out and then come back with clear heads.
• 9:36
  I think that's fascinating.
• 9:37
  So do I.
• 9:38
  I love that.
• 9:40
  Let's just go away and reconfigure and do all that.
• 9:45
  So where's the next big one then?
• 9:46
  Well, I just got back from four months.
• 9:48
  Three months in Europe and 45 days in Vietnam.
• 9:52
  In Vietnam?
• 9:53
  Come on.
• 9:55
  That's incredible.
• 9:56
  How was Vietnam?
• 9:57
  Amazing.
• 9:58
  People are so incredible.
• 10:00
  It's super easy to get around.
• 10:02
  It's an affordable place to travel still.
• 10:04
  The food is amazing.
• 10:05
  The culture is amazing.
• 10:08
  I highly recommend it.
• 10:09
  Are the Vietnamese spring rolls better in Vietnam than they are here?
• 10:12
  Yes.
• 10:15
  I was going to say.
• 10:16
  We ate them everywhere.
• 10:19
  And the Vietnamese eat them too.
• 10:20
  So it's not just like a weird Canadianism.
• 10:23
  I know.
• 10:23
  My hairdresser, she's Vietnamese.
• 10:25
  Mimi, she's wonderful.
• 10:26
  Anyway, she gets mad at me because I ask her those questions.
• 10:31
  In Vietnam, are the spring rolls different and better?
• 10:34
  And she's just like, oh, you're so stupid.
• 10:35
  She says, of course, they are.
• 10:37
  They're better there.
• 10:38
  Yeah, they're not frozen and then fried.
• 10:40
  They're made fresh on the spot.
• 10:41
  Fresh on the spot.
• 10:42
  Wow.
• 10:42
  And so Vietnam was a great experience or?
• 10:45
  Absolutely.
• 10:46
  Yeah.
• 10:46
  We met amazing people while traveling.
• 10:48
  We met amazing Vietnamese.
• 10:50
  The country is it's such a tiny little country.
• 10:53
  Yeah.
• 10:54
  And it has so much diversity between North and South.
• 10:57
  We learned a lot about the Vietnam War.
• 10:59
  I was going to say the history.
• 11:01
  It took us a while to get all of our facts and some of the old propaganda straight.
• 11:06
  And once we left, we really had a good understanding.
• 11:10
  And it's an interesting time to be in Vietnam when things were getting quite political in Canada.
• 11:16
  And so it just added a different dimension to that, for sure.
• 11:21
  You should have stayed in Vietnam.
• 11:23
  The way things are right now, you should have stayed.
• 11:26
  Yeah.
• 11:27
  And where did you go in Europe?
• 11:28
  We were in France.
• 11:30
  So we lived in Paris for a month, and then we lived in a few different spots in Italy for just over two months.
• 11:35
  Yeah.
• 11:37
  This is making me so jealous right now.
• 11:39
  I know.
• 11:39
  It's like I'm sitting here going like, last week I went to like, Leduc.
• 11:43
  It's like, you know, big deal, like, who cares?
• 11:46
  We tried to skip winter, but we came back.
• 11:49
  And then two days later was the first March snowfall.
• 11:53
  And then now we just had this snowfall.
• 11:55
  All the snowbirds are like what we came back to early.
• 11:57
  You were just talking about the geese even came back too early.
• 12:00
  They're all looking around going, I should have stayed in Palm Springs.
• 12:03
  But yeah, well, that's fascinating.
• 12:05
  That's amazing.
• 12:05
  That's incredible.
• 12:06
  Oh, yeah.
• 12:07
  Yeah.
• 12:08
  So you did your travel reset.
• 12:10
  You were doing a coverage over at NCSG.
• 12:15
  So then you came back from your travel reset.
• 12:17
  Then what?
• 12:18
  So I came back and it was perfect timing because that's really the point in time when NCSG.
• 12:24
  So this is 2013.
• 12:26
  NCSG is just kind of starting down their next path with their private equity group.
• 12:31
  Okay so sorry to interrupt though. We should tell people what NCSG is.
• 12:34
  So NCSG is a?
• 12:37
  Crane and Heavy Haul Business.
• 12:38
  Crane and Heavy Haul Business.
• 12:39
  Industrial space.
• 12:40
  Right.
• 12:40
  We do a lot of work in Western Canada.
• 12:42
  At the time, we had operations in the US.
• 12:46
  And so at that point, it was just really kind of kicking off with all the great stuff that was happening in 2012.
• 12:51
  NCSG is literally two minutes from where we are.
• 12:55
  Down Acheson Road.
• 12:56
  Absolutely.
• 12:56
  Yeah.
• 12:56
  Just on the outskirts of beautiful downtown.
• 12:58
  In Zone 3.
• 12:59
  In Zone 3.
• 13:00
  The best zone.
• 13:00
  That's the best zone there is.
• 13:01
  Okay.
• 13:02
  So yeah.
• 13:02
  So you went, yeah.
• 13:04
  So now you're immersed in NCSG.
• 13:06
  Yeah.
• 13:06
  So there was an opportunity to join the team.
• 13:08
  And like I said, teaming was really kind of what I was looking for.
• 13:12
  Mentorship, developing people and really being connected.
• 13:16
  I started as VP Finance and then over the next 10 years, I just progressed to ultimately be the CEO at the time that I left.
• 13:24
  Yeah.
• 13:25
  Okay.
• 13:25
  Now I'm going to, you don't have to answer this.
• 13:27
  You can just, you can fudge it.
• 13:29
  Because you look like you're like 18.
• 13:32
  So how, yeah, that's right.
• 13:35
  So you became CEO.
• 13:36
  How old were you when you became CEO?
• 13:39
  Okay.
• 13:40
  That's a math question.
• 13:41
  So circling back, I should be good at it.
• 13:43
  Sorry.
• 13:44
  I could ask it in a calculus way, I guess.
• 13:47
  I was in my mid-30s.
• 13:48
  Your mid-30s? I think I was about 35.
• 13:49
  Wow.
• 13:50
  That's incredible.
• 13:51
  That really is incredible.
• 13:52
  That really is.
• 13:53
  You must have been, especially not only here in Acheson, but in the industry, I would think one of the youngest.
• 13:59
  CEOs.
• 14:00
  Female or just plain youngest CEOs in that field.
• 14:05
  Yeah.
• 14:05
  What I was told at the time was that I was the first female CEO that wasn't a family member.
• 14:12
  Right.
• 14:12
  Yes.
• 14:12
  So not to discredit the women who come up through family businesses, but just as an outsider, I would say coming in, I was one of the first.
• 14:20
  To be the youngest, I have no idea.
• 14:22
  But certainly, I got the data on the first non-family member leader of a crane business in Canada.
• 14:27
  I think that's incredible.
• 14:29
  Because I think that's a rarity.
• 14:31
  Yeah.
• 14:32
  It is a rarity for sure.
• 14:34
  I think there's lots of heavy industrial businesses where it's still fairly male, dominated, but there's lots of great talent.
• 14:44
  And I think we're seeing it shift over time for sure.
• 14:47
  So without going too deeply into it, but tell us about that.
• 14:51
  What was your experience as a female CEO of a large company in that particular heavy machinery industry field?
• 15:02
  How did people, how did the men respond to you?
• 15:05
  How did that go?
• 15:06
  So I would say it's a couple of things.
• 15:08
  So because I had been there for so long before, and kind of was always engaged or trying to connect with the people that were there, I wasn't new or fresh, like I wasn't a fresh face, they kind of knew me, knew my style.
• 15:24
  So I already had really great buy-in and support, not only from the leadership team that I was taking over, but from a lot of the branch managers, supervisors that were familiar with me from my other roles at the company.
• 15:37
  And so I would say within the company, there was generally just a lot of excitement and support and really great, like a really great feeling going into that.
• 15:47
  I would say I joined the, there's a National Crane Association and I joined that.
• 15:55
  And everyone was incredibly kind and supportive.
• 15:59
  There were, you know, Mike Myshak called me to say, you know, congratulations, took me out for lunch.
• 16:06
  You know, Mike Myshak Senior, I should, I guess, clarify.
• 16:09
  Yeah, no, yeah.
• 16:09
  But like there was a lot of support and I think that, you know, there are challenges being a female leading in a male dominated space, but there's also a lot of really great support, excitement.
• 16:22
  People like the breath of fresh air.
• 16:24
  I have a pretty, you know, compatible style with people.
• 16:29
  Like, I'm not so posh and, you know, I show up for toolbox with lipstick on.
• 16:35
  That doesn't change regardless.
• 16:38
  But I still have dirty work boots and I'm in coveralls.
• 16:42
  Are they pink work boots?
• 16:43
  No.
• 16:43
  They are not pink work boots.
• 16:46
  They're not, but they are covered in mud.
• 16:48
  So that's the main thing.
• 16:49
  If they're covered in mud, doesn't matter what color they are.
• 16:52
  If your work boots got mud, you're a worker.
• 16:54
  Yeah.
• 16:55
  And what I would say is, you know, at the level that I was operating at, either the men are actually supportive and engaged and kind and smart enough, or they're smart enough to hide it and keep it somewhere else.
• 17:09
  What I found leading in a male-dominated industry was dealing with and speaking with the women that worked in the field.
• 17:16
  That's where there's still a lot of challenges, a lot of sexual, you know, commentary.
• 17:22
  Are there a lot of women working out in the fields?
• 17:24
  There's less than 5% of crane operators are female.
• 17:27
  Is that right?
• 17:28
  Yeah.
• 17:28
  So, fair to say, fairly male-dominated.
• 17:31
  Still very male-dominated.
• 17:33
  There's a lot of reasons why.
• 17:34
  Is that changing?
• 17:35
  Is it trending?
• 17:36
  Is it not really?
• 17:39
  It really depends on the women, whether they want to enter that space.
• 17:43
  I think there's a lot of education.
• 17:45
  I think the spaces are becoming safer.
• 17:47
  But I think the way that the kind of shifts work, the out-of-town work, some of the unpredictability makes it harder to incorporate into a life where maybe you have a family or share.
• 18:00
  Even some of our dads, right?
• 18:02
  They are now co-parenting at 50-50 levels.
• 18:06
  And this career is hard for that, for them too, not just for the women.
• 18:10
  But it's not an obvious sell for family oriented people, I would say, male or female.
• 18:18
  Yeah.
• 18:19
  So Heather, one of the things that I think was so great about your time at NCSG and your leadership style was you really had built a fantastic executive team over there and a lot of them were female.
• 18:32
  Yes.
• 18:32
  So tell us about that.
• 18:35
  Is that something that you drew in or was that kind of automatically there?
• 18:40
  It wasn't automatically there.
• 18:42
  So when I was given the promotion to president at the time, I needed to backfill the CFO role.
• 18:50
  Right.
• 18:51
  Jacqui Konlup had moved on to another role and I asked her if she wanted to come back and she said yes.
• 18:56
  So that was the first win because she's the most incredible CFO and leader that I could be partnered with and she's a very good balance to what I had or what I brought to the table.
• 19:09
  But then as we were interviewing for other key leadership roles, these very strong, intelligent women are getting to interview with a woman where maybe every other job that they've interviewed with before was with a man.
• 19:24
  That's right.
• 19:25
  So that changes the dynamic.
• 19:26
  I think it makes it interesting.
• 19:28
  I think they are like, well, let's maybe see.
• 19:30
  So for some of the top talent in the engineering space, some of our leadership, they were excited to come to a female CEO, CFO team and try that out and see what that really looked like.
• 19:44
  I love that.
• 19:44
  Yeah.
• 19:45
  I think that's great.
• 19:46
  We also have, I just want to shout out Bonnie Smith.
• 19:48
  She's our VP of HR.
• 19:50
  She's an OG.
• 19:51
  I can't take any credit for her as a hire, but I think that we've had a couple, maybe more than a couple of tough years at NCSG since both her and I have started there.
• 20:03
  And I think I've always viewed her as a teammate and I think the same back.
• 20:08
  And we've supported each other through that, where maybe a different leadership style might have led to somebody leaving because it was just too much.
• 20:16
  But you created your team.
• 20:17
  Yeah.
• 20:17
  You fed off each other, weaknesses and strengths.
• 20:20
  You built an awesome team and moved forward with it.
• 20:23
  That's incredible.
• 20:24
  Yes.
• 20:24
  Yeah.
• 20:25
  And you were accepted and people saw what you were doing and saw the successes of it.
• 20:30
  So it made it all that more credible.
• 20:31
  It's amazing.
• 20:32
  Yes.
• 20:33
  That's phenomenal.
• 20:34
  Yeah.
• 20:34
  It was a really incredible and positive experience for sure.
• 20:38
  Yeah.
• 20:40
  Incredible and positive.
• 20:41
  But like you said, sometimes there are tough times.
• 20:43
  And in that industry, there had to have been some tough times you went through as well.
• 20:48
  How did you deal with that?
• 20:50
  Yeah.
• 20:51
  So I would say probably one of the biggest challenges, two of the challenges that I kind of think of are, one, moving into the CEO role and the imposter syndrome that comes with that.
• 21:04
  And then the second is just the mental burden of being the single throat to choke in an incredibly safety sensitive.
• 21:14
  We had a lot of financial pressures being private equity owned and kind of taking on some risk that way.
• 21:21
  And so what I would say about the imposter syndrome was it was kind of two pronged.
• 21:27
  One, I wasn't a subject matter expert and so trying to decipher the BS from like somebody trying to pull something over.
• 21:37
  Part of that is building a good team that doesn't try to pull things over on you.
• 21:41
  And part of it is I have a good memory and so I circle back and I call people out.
• 21:46
  And so they can only do it a couple of times and then we're all good.
• 21:49
  And then realizing...
• 21:50
  I'd be in trouble.
• 21:52
  I'd get big trouble all the time.
• 21:54
  Anyway, sorry.
• 21:55
  No problem.
• 21:55
  Yeah, and realizing you don't need to be...
• 21:58
  Again, the team at NCSG is an incredible team and letting them do what they do.
• 22:02
  And I kind of figured out what my role was, which was around strategy and culture, vision, leadership.
• 22:09
  So that kind of took that part of it out.
• 22:11
  But the other part of the imposter syndrome that I really feel I suffered from was nobody was leading.
• 22:18
  I'd never seen a leader lead like I led.
• 22:21
  Right.
• 22:21
  And so you question whether or not that's good leadership.
• 22:26
  Is that executive-level leadership?
• 22:28
  That's right.
• 22:29
  And what I would just say to that is that female leaders generally have a different leadership style.
• 22:35
  Men have different leadership styles.
• 22:37
  But the spin that female leaders bring.
• 22:41
  So a lot of women will talk about imposter syndrome in these situations.
• 22:47
  And to me, I really want to change the language around that because I'm not an imposter, I'm just doing things differently.
• 22:53
  So it's like a path-finder's dilemma.
• 22:55
  It's like you're questioning what you're doing because you've never seen it before.
• 22:59
  That doesn't mean you're not the right person for it.
• 23:02
  No, that's fantastic.
• 23:02
  So it took a while to get there.
• 23:04
  No, that's fantastic.
• 23:05
  And I think those words are amazing.
• 23:07
  So I have a question in all of that.
• 23:09
  I love talking to you.
• 23:10
  This is just amazing.
• 23:11
  It's blowing my mind.
• 23:12
  I love this kind of conversation.
• 23:15
  Little bit of vulnerability here for you.
• 23:17
  Were there ever those moments where you just sat back and thought, I can't do this?
• 23:23
  I mean, do you ever have had those?
• 23:25
  Did you have any of those times when you thought, I don't know if I'm doing this the right way.
• 23:30
  I mean, I don't know if this is going the way it should.
• 23:32
  Like, did you ever, and how did you deal with those if you did?
• 23:36
  Well, I would say like that mental burden piece was huge.
• 23:40
  Yeah.
• 23:41
  I had a great team and I felt like the business was always in the right spot, but where I thought I might have been out of my depth sometimes was around the safety issues.
• 23:52
  We had a couple of very serious safety incidents and responding to that and being there in the way that the people need a leader to be there.
• 24:04
  That was probably one of the biggest challenges for me.
• 24:08
  And again, surrounded by great people, but I really, I started going to therapy in 2015 and regularly going and it was a space where I could just kind of talk about my fears and things and really just have that support.
• 24:25
  Yeah, 100%.
• 24:27
  I'm really happy you said that because I think, when we've talked about this so much, about the podcast, it's lonely at the top.
• 24:34
  It is.
• 24:35
  Right, and sometimes you can't share it with your team.
• 24:38
  No.
• 24:39
  You can't share it with your team, you can't share it with your spouse.
• 24:41
  They're like, just quit, just quit.
• 24:45
  You'll get over it, it'll pass.
• 24:46
  No, it won't.
• 24:47
  But you need a space to let that out and find coping mechanisms, because if not, wow.
• 24:53
  Yeah, we talk about that a lot.
• 24:55
  We do, because we find in doing not only our podcast, because it's the story behind the story, but just as you get to know business people, it's lonely at the top sometimes.
• 25:04
  And you're right, who do you go to?
• 25:06
  Who do you talk to?
• 25:07
  And we got to work and we talk a lot about finding mechanisms to try and make that happen for people, that they can find that safe space to be able to talk.
• 25:17
  Yeah, so I had my therapist, who, she was amazing.
• 25:20
  But then I also had a CEO peer group of leaders in totally different businesses.
• 25:26
  And that was a great place to bring real business challenges or board member challenges or other things of that nature and kind of talk it through in a confidential space.
• 25:38
  Oh, I think that's fabulous.
• 25:40
  And I just, Jennifer, I want to stop here for a second and say this, because if you're listening to this today and you find yourself in that space, and you don't know where to go, just contact us.
• 25:50
  Just get in touch with the Acheson Business Association.
• 25:52
  Go to our website, give Jennifer a call.
• 25:55
  Just get in touch with us and let us walk you through that, because I think that's really key.
• 25:59
  Our time is winding down.
• 26:01
  Do we want to talk?
• 26:02
  I hear philanthropy is a huge part of who you are.
• 26:07
  Tell us about that.
• 26:07
  It is very much a core of what I do.
• 26:10
  So, between volunteering and advocating.
• 26:14
  So, I have the pleasure of being the co-chair of Women United for the Capital Region, which includes Acheson and Parkland and all this great space.
• 26:24
  And we do a lot of work in trying to amplify women's voices and bring people together, find allies, get everybody talking and having a great conversation.
• 26:34
  I'm super involved with the food bank in the city.
• 26:37
  And food is my passion.
• 26:39
  I love to eat a delicious meal.
• 26:41
  And every time I do, I come to it with gratitude, because not everyone can just go to the grocery store and get the ingredients that they need.
• 26:49
  So, I just, one of my personal core values is gratitude and really kind of making sure that you're paying success and luck for me in some cases forward.
• 27:01
  And I just think there's so much you get out of that by being involved in the community.
• 27:06
  So, amazing.
• 27:08
  Wow.
• 27:08
  I know.
• 27:09
  We could do this for an hour.
• 27:11
  I told you she's great.
• 27:12
  She is.
• 27:13
  This is phenomenal.
• 27:13
  I could just have this conversation for an hour.
• 27:16
  This is fantastic.
• 27:17
  The final question, because time flies.
• 27:20
  We're almost done.
• 27:21
  Heather, what's the best piece of advice you've been given either personally or professionally that you carry with you to this day?
• 27:28
  Yeah.
• 27:28
  So it was, I was a young auditor at EY.
• 27:31
  My manager, Karen Fisher, told me I was struggling.
• 27:34
  I was upset.
• 27:36
  Work was driving me crazy.
• 27:37
  I wanted to quit.
• 27:38
  But I was like, what will happen to the audit team if I leave?
• 27:43
  And she says, Heather, just remember, you are always replaceable.
• 27:47
  Yes.
• 27:48
  And business will continue within days of you leaving, if not hours.
• 27:53
  And so whatever you're doing, you're doing it because you're choosing to be there.
• 27:58
  And knowing that you're there because it's your choice and not because you're irreplaceable and the world will fall apart, it really changes, I think, how you show up.
• 28:08
  And it applies not only in your career and the jobs that you work for, but also in your marriage.
• 28:15
  I'm easily replaceable there too, but if I put the effort in and I'm there and I show up and I'm present, all of that matters.
• 28:21
  So for me, it's knowing that you are completely replaceable and coming at something from a humble point of view.
• 28:27
  Amazing.
• 28:28
  I love it.
• 28:29
  For me, I call it the Savior Syndrome.
• 28:31
  I feel like I have to be the Savior of it all.
• 28:34
  And you don't.
• 28:34
  That's just not a reality.
• 28:36
  It's unreal.
• 28:37
  It's an unreal expectation, actually.
• 28:39
  So, yeah.
• 28:39
  Well, we've all watched leaders leave and keep people at organizations and the organizations keep going and that's it.
• 28:47
  When Jobs was gone, Apple still went on, right?
• 28:50
  When Gates was gone, Microsoft still went on.
• 28:53
  So what great words of advice.
• 28:55
  Fantastic.
• 28:55
  Amazing.
• 28:56
  This has been amazing.
• 28:57
  This has been amazing.
• 28:57
  I want to do it for another half hour.
• 28:59
  This is incredible.
• 28:59
  Heather, thank you so much for coming back to beautiful downtown Acheson.
• 29:04
  Thank you.
• 29:04
  Thanks for having me.
• 29:05
  When we build our condos, if you're ever interested.
• 29:07
  No, just kidding.
• 29:08
  But anyways, it's great.
• 29:09
  This is really fascinating.
• 29:10
  Thank you so much.
• 29:11
  Thank you.
• 29:13
  That was amazing.
• 29:15
  You know, her words of advice about being a leader, and I love that she shared so openly about, you know, going to therapy and the struggles and needing somebody to talk to.
• 29:29
  I think for anybody listening to this podcast in business right now, just know you aren't alone.
• 29:34
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:36
  And I know, Jennifer, you and I talk about this.
• 29:39
  Again, we talk about this a lot because I think deep down inside, a lot of business people, they don't know where to turn, they don't know who to talk to.
• 29:48
  And you got to talk it out somewhere.
• 29:50
  And so again, if we can be of any help in any of that, please don't hesitate to call us.
• 29:56
  It'll all be anonymous.
• 29:57
  It'll all be confidential.
• 29:58
  But I just loved that she's willing to say, yeah, this is what I did to get through some of those times.
• 30:04
  Absolutely.
• 30:05
  And to me, she has been such an inspiration to me since, even before starting this role at the Acheson Business Association.
• 30:15
  I knew about Heather.
• 30:16
  I knew about what she did.
• 30:17
  And just a great role model for females in the industry.
• 30:21
  That's what I love about our podcast.
• 30:23
  We have some really, really amazing women leaders on our podcast.
• 30:27
  So go back and listen to some of their stories.
• 30:30
  It's incredible.
• 30:31
  And so thanks everybody for listening.
• 30:34
  Make sure you tell somebody about the podcast.
• 30:37
  Just found out this morning, we're at 7,000 listeners.
• 30:41
  And that's incredible. So Thank You! Thank you very much.
• 30:43
  Tell your friends, tell your neighbors, tell your business associates, tell your enemies.
• 30:47
  If you don't have any friends, make one just so you can tell them about the podcast.
• 30:51
  Wherever you get your podcasts or at www.Achesonbusiness.com.
• 30:58
  Thanks everyone.
• 30:59
  Thanks.
• 30:59
  Don't forget to subscribe.
• 31:01
  Subscribe.
• 31:02
  Thanks everyone.
• 31:03
  See you next week.