Latest / The Book Deal / Literary festivals, pitching yourself for events (and podcasts!), new books and the special art of a timeline

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Literary festivals, pitching yourself for events (and podcasts!), new books and the special art of a timeline · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Tina Strachan: This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories, the authors behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Tina Strachan: No matter what stage of writing you are at, we've got you covered.
• 0:19
  Tina Strachan: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:20
  Tina Strachan: And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:21
  Tina Strachan: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors one deal at a time.
• 0:29
  Madeleine Cleary: The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Happy Sunday, Tina.
• 0:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Happy Sunday, Madeleine.
• 0:47
  Madeleine Cleary: You're like, wait, what's your name?
• 0:48
  Madeleine Cleary: You're deep in edits.
• 0:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh
• 0:51
  Tina Strachan: no.
• 0:51
  Tina Strachan: I was, I was gonna start off with, um, good day to you, lady Madeleine.
• 0:56
  Tina Strachan: Um, because your last message to me was very 19th century and I was really hoping that you were gonna bring the 19th century talk with you.
• 1:08
  Madeleine Cleary: How do you do, Tina?
• 1:09
  Madeleine Cleary: I hope that, uh, you are fairing well.
• 1:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Today indeed explore and stay.
• 1:17
  Madeleine Cleary: But why do you have 19th century vocab at the moment?
• 1:20
  Madeleine Cleary: Made?
• 1:21
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm, oh, I'm just so deep.
• 1:22
  Madeleine Cleary: I can't, what was the message I sent you again?
• 1:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I should read it out.
• 1:26
  Madeleine Cleary: You, you were trying to schedule, uh, our session today and I said I have rolled out of bed this morning and I've just been hitting the writing without care for my appearance.
• 1:36
  Madeleine Cleary: So.
• 1:38
  Tina Strachan: Very proper.
• 1:40
  Tina Strachan: Um, and I love that, that it's that your write your, your writing is seeping into your everyday words.
• 1:46
  Madeleine Cleary: Does, does middle grade writing seep into your everyday words when you're deep into in the writing?
• 1:52
  Tina Strachan: Um, not really because, um, yes, mine's quite.
• 1:57
  Tina Strachan: Prob, my words have seeped into it, I think quite a lot.
• 2:01
  Tina Strachan: But I do have a funny story in that, um, there is a character in book two, in book three mm-hmm.
• 2:08
  Tina Strachan: Of the Wilder Zoo Series that I'm writing.
• 2:10
  Tina Strachan: And, uh, there's a Scottish character, oh, I have to say.
• 2:19
  Tina Strachan: At the time when I was writing book two, I was binge watching Outlander.
• 2:25
  Tina Strachan: I dunno if you've seen Outlander.
• 2:28
  Tina Strachan: But it's Scottish, it's in Scotland and there's these Strachan accents and um, to the point.
• 2:34
  Tina Strachan: So I was binge watching it to the point like where in my head my thoughts were even a little bit in Scottish.
• 2:40
  Tina Strachan: Like that's all that I could hear.
• 2:42
  Tina Strachan: And so when I started writing I was like, this created this new character and he just had to be Scottish'cause I
• 2:48
  Madeleine Cleary: cause of Outlander.
• 2:49
  Madeleine Cleary: So there is a character in your book that is Scottish because of Outlander?
• 2:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 2:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, that is the best.
• 2:54
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 2:54
  Madeleine Cleary: I just
• 2:54
  Tina Strachan: wanted to write that.
• 2:56
  Madeleine Cleary: That's when your everyday life seeps into your writing, which is common, isn't it?
• 3:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 3:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Anyway.
• 3:03
  Madeleine Cleary: That's fantastic.
• 3:03
  Madeleine Cleary: Even in middle grade.
• 3:04
  Madeleine Cleary: I love that.
• 3:05
  Madeleine Cleary: But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm deep in, um, 19th century Melbourne at the moment, which is a fun place to be really.
• 3:13
  Madeleine Cleary: It's a nice escapism.
• 3:14
  Madeleine Cleary: I think that's why I enjoy historical fiction.
• 3:16
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause it is, it is a bit of an escape.
• 3:18
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 3:19
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, not sure of times were simpler back then, but certainly very interesting for some, maybe.
• 3:24
  Madeleine Cleary: For others, not so much.
• 3:26
  Madeleine Cleary: No, that's right.
• 3:27
  Madeleine Cleary: That's right.
• 3:27
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's been good.
• 3:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, um, progress tracker, oh gosh.
• 3:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Should I say it then?
• 3:32
  Madeleine Cleary: I'll have to be kept to account.
• 3:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, do
• 3:35
  Tina Strachan: it.
• 3:35
  Tina Strachan: But I was gonna say this is, um, this might be some exciting news for fans of Madeleine Clery and the Butterfly Women.
• 3:41
  Madeleine Cleary: Are you
• 3:41
  Tina Strachan: talking, are you sort of, are we hearing it here first?
• 3:45
  Tina Strachan: Madeleine?
• 3:45
  Tina Strachan: Is this.
• 3:46
  Tina Strachan: Is this a new book that you're writing?
• 3:48
  Madeleine Cleary: It it perhaps this is the first, well I have spoken about it in a couple of other record things, but this might be the first one that goes to Eric about it.
• 3:54
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 3:54
  Madeleine Cleary: So I am writing a new book.
• 3:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, it's set 15 years after the Butterfly Women.
• 3:59
  Madeleine Cleary: It is set in Melbourne again.
• 4:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, it definitely expands out of Little Lawn.
• 4:05
  Madeleine Cleary: So for those who've read The Butterfly Women, it's.
• 4:07
  Madeleine Cleary: There's lots of very familiar locations in Melbourne that my, I'm taking my characters on to.
• 4:14
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's expanding that love letter to the city that people have described it as.
• 4:18
  Madeleine Cleary: And it's a lot of fun.
• 4:19
  Madeleine Cleary: So I am up to, as of today, 25,000 words a down.
• 4:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Wow.
• 4:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Which that's a good place to be, isn't it?
• 4:27
  Madeleine Cleary: It is, it is.
• 4:28
  Madeleine Cleary: It's a really good place to be.
• 4:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, 30,000 I think is the point where generally for me.
• 4:36
  Madeleine Cleary: I'll either stop or keep going.
• 4:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 4:38
  Madeleine Cleary: So I'm almost at that point, and I thi but this one, this story's feeling really good and, and just like I get, I'm getting the same feelings, it's feeling special and important to me.
• 4:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 4:49
  Madeleine Cleary: And I've got a lot of momentum behind it.
• 4:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 4:52
  Madeleine Cleary: So I'm hoping that continues.
• 4:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 4:54
  Madeleine Cleary: And you're excited to sit down and keep going.
• 4:56
  Madeleine Cleary: So excited.
• 4:57
  Madeleine Cleary: I love that feeling.
• 4:58
  Madeleine Cleary: I love it.
• 4:59
  Madeleine Cleary: My brain, I'm just completely absorbed right now.
• 5:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, so good.
• 5:03
  Madeleine Cleary: I've also, it's coincided with a bit of a quieter period for me in terms of events.
• 5:07
  Madeleine Cleary: So for the last couple of weeks I've just been, and it's also really cold in Melbourne, so I literally have just been huddling down and writing and that's been really fun.
• 5:16
  Madeleine Cleary: So that's nice.
• 5:17
  Madeleine Cleary: What about you?
• 5:18
  Madeleine Cleary: You are deep in edits.
• 5:20
  Tina Strachan: I'm deep in edits.
• 5:21
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 5:21
  Tina Strachan: Speaking of writing, I'm deep in edits for book three.
• 5:23
  Tina Strachan: Which doesn't come out until next year.
• 5:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, but it's, you've got a bit of a break then after you've got, uh, book two coming out in July and then, uh, next week, Madeleine?
• 5:33
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't, is it next week?
• 5:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Next week, is it?
• 5:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, no, it's the
• 5:36
  Tina Strachan: week after next.
• 5:36
  Tina Strachan: Sorry.
• 5:37
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 5:37
  Tina Strachan: Oh my gosh.
• 5:37
  Tina Strachan: Week after next.
• 5:38
  Tina Strachan: I, I don't feel very prepared for it.
• 5:40
  Tina Strachan: It's just, it's, it is very, I can say it's very different.
• 5:44
  Tina Strachan: July is literally, yeah, I know.
• 5:47
  Tina Strachan: In 10 days,
• 5:48
  Madeleine Cleary: so I know it's scary.
• 5:48
  Madeleine Cleary: What date does it come out on the, the 1st of July.
• 5:51
  Madeleine Cleary: July 2nd.
• 5:52
  Madeleine Cleary: July 2nd.
• 5:53
  Madeleine Cleary: We'll mark that date in your calendars, everybody.
• 5:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 5:56
  Madeleine Cleary: July 2nd.
• 5:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Sneak from the storm.
• 5:57
  Madeleine Cleary: We'll hit the
• 5:58
  Tina Strachan: shells July 2nd.
• 6:00
  Tina Strachan: And yes, I, everything is so busy.
• 6:02
  Tina Strachan: Like I've got so many workshops, uh, coming up and it's, yeah, there's just a lot to do and edits.
• 6:08
  Tina Strachan: Edits always just seem to come in at the.
• 6:11
  Tina Strachan: They're really busy times, doesn't it?
• 6:13
  Tina Strachan: Is it a structural edit or is it a copy edit?
• 6:15
  Tina Strachan: Oh, well it's the type set edit.
• 6:17
  Tina Strachan: Oh, so you know what it looks, looks when they send you what it looks like.
• 6:21
  Tina Strachan: Printed on a page.
• 6:23
  Tina Strachan: So it hasn't got the illustrations in there yet, so they're still gonna have to do some fiddling around and moving things around, um, to fit the illustrations in.
• 6:30
  Tina Strachan: Which is good because I've, um, ma made quite a few additional sort of edits and changes.
• 6:35
  Tina Strachan: 'cause it's been a while since I've seen it.
• 6:37
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 6:37
  Madeleine Cleary: Um,
• 6:37
  Tina Strachan: I think it's probably been like six months.
• 6:39
  Tina Strachan: So that's a good break.
• 6:40
  Tina Strachan: That's Yeah.
• 6:41
  Tina Strachan: To then look at it and go with a fresh pair of eyes.
• 6:45
  Tina Strachan: Um, the biggest thing that I found.
• 6:47
  Tina Strachan: Actually, and I, I had this issue when I was writing it, it as a bit of a timeline situation.
• 6:52
  Tina Strachan: I dunno if you've like Yeah.
• 6:55
  Tina Strachan: I think'cause the timelines are quite tight in this book and it's, you know, one of the main issues is that something's due at a particular date, you know?
• 7:05
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 7:05
  Tina Strachan: So I sort of have to almost work back from that.
• 7:07
  Tina Strachan: And there's a few things that happened in that time that has to happen on particular days.
• 7:11
  Tina Strachan: And I think at one point.
• 7:14
  Tina Strachan: It kind of happens over about the space of a week, and at one point, you know, I had to change the timeline, change the days, and so I, I can see a little bit of that sung over and, you know, in this, um, type set copy that I've got now, which I'm glad to have caught.
• 7:30
  Tina Strachan: Oh,
• 7:30
  Madeleine Cleary: that's good.
• 7:31
  Madeleine Cleary: That's also frightening, isn't it, when you Also
• 7:33
  Tina Strachan: frightening.
• 7:34
  Madeleine Cleary: But I, how do you map out your timeline?
• 7:37
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm so
• 7:38
  Tina Strachan: glad you asked.
• 7:44
  Tina Strachan: If you have time, and this is why, once you've done, once you've done it and it is really important okay.
• 7:50
  Tina Strachan: To map your timeline.
• 7:51
  Tina Strachan: I didn't know this, so I read my, my first manuscript that I wrote, I just completely wrote the whole thing and it was fine and, and timewise, timeline wise.
• 8:00
  Tina Strachan: There was no other major issues except so I just naturally just had it.
• 8:04
  Sarah Lane: Mm-hmm.
• 8:04
  Tina Strachan: Fine.
• 8:05
  Tina Strachan: Like it was just working fine.
• 8:06
  Tina Strachan: But I don't think the particular days mattered.
• 8:07
  Tina Strachan: It probably didn't matter if it was in, you know, a couple of days here or there, but when I started mapping it out and using story grid, the story grid, we go, okay, story grid, as we know, everyone knows how we, how I love this.
• 8:21
  Tina Strachan: Um, at the end.
• 8:23
  Tina Strachan: So it had like even when I first saw story good, I was like, this is outta control.
• 8:27
  Tina Strachan: This is so full on.
• 8:29
  Tina Strachan: I'm like, I'm not gonna map each the time of each scene and how long it starts and when it finished, it ended.
• 8:34
  Tina Strachan: But I can tell you now when you do that, you do realize that silly, some kind of like silly mistakes get through.
• 8:40
  Tina Strachan: Like at one point I realize that they had been driving in a car nonstop for 26 hours, which can ever happen.
• 8:46
  Tina Strachan: You do have to stop.
• 8:48
  Tina Strachan: No one's got 26 hours worth of fuel in the tank.
• 8:52
  Tina Strachan: You know, just one of those, just one of those things that you just sort of don't really think about and they, yeah, so I just, so it was really handy to pick that up and admittedly I didn't, um, I did, I had to actually do just the, I had to sort of map out the time for each.
• 9:07
  Tina Strachan: Chapter again now, not as, not like start and fish, but at least the days and if it was the morning or the afternoon, because it really does make a difference when you're looking at such a tight timeframe.
• 9:17
  Tina Strachan: So,
• 9:17
  Madeleine Cleary: yeah, and also like external things, like where the sun's positioned in the sky and all that kind of stuff.
• 9:22
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 9:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh.
• 9:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Morning, afternoon, or what season it is.
• 9:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Maybe it's not as necessary.
• 9:27
  Madeleine Cleary: In Queensland seasons don't mean this much.
• 9:30
  Madeleine Cleary: There's storm season and there's storm season.
• 9:33
  Madeleine Cleary: That's right.
• 9:33
  Madeleine Cleary: Wild season.
• 9:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, there you could be.
• 9:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, that's true.
• 9:36
  Madeleine Cleary: So I guess that, that, that's
• 9:37
  Tina Strachan: interesting.
• 9:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 9:39
  Madeleine Cleary: So you would recommend it,
• 9:41
  Tina Strachan: um, I think if you have time after you've written a manuscript, even just a, your zero draft to position yourself.
• 9:46
  Tina Strachan: 'cause sometimes you can get yourself like in a really tight or a really.
• 9:53
  Tina Strachan: You can create a really big issue, I think with your timelines
• 9:56
  Madeleine Cleary: you can.
• 9:56
  Madeleine Cleary: And um, so when I submitted the Butterfly Women and it was accepted, Ruby then asked me for my timeline.
• 10:07
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, oh really?
• 10:09
  Madeleine Cleary: They asked me to send through.
• 10:11
  Madeleine Cleary: The timeline for her, her next structural way to read.
• 10:14
  Madeleine Cleary: And I was like, eek, I don't, I, I'm a chaos writer.
• 10:20
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't have any timeline.
• 10:22
  Madeleine Cleary: And she says, it's, and I sort of went, oh, I'll have to put one together for you.
• 10:25
  Madeleine Cleary: And she said it's really helpful, particularly in historical fiction, to have timelines.
• 10:29
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 10:30
  Tina Strachan: Um,
• 10:30
  Madeleine Cleary: I think any, any anything partic and crime and all sorts.
• 10:33
  Madeleine Cleary: And so I yeah.
• 10:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Had to retrospectively go back and create a timeline.
• 10:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 10:39
  Madeleine Cleary: The other useful thing that Ruby did was put together, um, kind of a map of the chapters for me and the parts to see, you know, a summary of which of each chapter, where the clues come in, and the points that she did up this amazing wow shape.
• 10:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, which, you know, because she just obviously knew that I didn't have anything.
• 11:01
  Madeleine Cleary: She's like, oh, I'm gonna have to do this.
• 11:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 11:03
  Madeleine Cleary: So I guess for emerging writers, it, it, I think it's now I do timelines ahead.
• 11:07
  Madeleine Cleary: Like I've actually done timeline now, or every time I come across something where I go, oh, this happened on this date, or This person was born in this year, so that would make them this, this age.
• 11:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 11:18
  Madeleine Cleary: Because that's a thing.
• 11:19
  Madeleine Cleary: They would've had this person at this age.
• 11:21
  Madeleine Cleary: And I now just, I have a table.
• 11:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Randomly in some random Word document that I just add to.
• 11:29
  Madeleine Cleary: And so that way Ruby, I can just give it to Ruby in the future.
• 11:33
  Tina Strachan: She's gonna be
• 11:33
  Madeleine Cleary: so
• 11:33
  Tina Strachan: happy with that.
• 11:34
  Madeleine Cleary: I know, I know.
• 11:35
  Madeleine Cleary: I think
• 11:36
  Tina Strachan: I feel really good doing that.
• 11:37
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 11:37
  Tina Strachan: You're such a star pupil.
• 11:39
  Tina Strachan: Um, now that is a really good, that is a top tip too.
• 11:42
  Tina Strachan: Go through and check your timelines.
• 11:44
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 11:45
  Tina Strachan: Uh.
• 11:46
  Tina Strachan: Maybe after you've finished, perhaps, or at the same time if you like.
• 11:49
  Tina Strachan: But yeah, it is really helpful, especially if you do have an actual ticking clock kind of thing.
• 11:54
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 11:54
  Tina Strachan: As your storyline.
• 11:55
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 11:56
  Tina Strachan: Um, you can't, yeah.
• 11:57
  Tina Strachan: You need to know when to apply the kind of the pressure and everything, and you can't do that too far out and you can't.
• 12:03
  Tina Strachan: Build it up and then, you know, drop it back down.
• 12:05
  Tina Strachan: You've gotta keep that pressure on and the momentum going.
• 12:08
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 12:08
  Tina Strachan: So
• 12:09
  Madeleine Cleary: really
• 12:09
  Tina Strachan: important.
• 12:09
  Tina Strachan: So, uh, timelines
• 12:11
  Madeleine Cleary: and your publisher might ask if for emerging writers who are Yes, they may ask you for your timeline.
• 12:15
  Madeleine Cleary: So be prepared based our people,
• 12:19
  Tina Strachan: we both said the same thing.
• 12:22
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, hilarious.
• 12:23
  Madeleine Cleary: But you, yeah.
• 12:24
  Madeleine Cleary: So I'm deep in edit, so that's kind of, yes.
• 12:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay.
• 12:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Tell us about your events though.
• 12:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Like what, what, what have you got upcoming for book two?
• 12:30
  Madeleine Cleary: I think I did last time actually.
• 12:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Did you?
• 12:32
  Madeleine Cleary: I think,
• 12:33
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 12:33
  Tina Strachan: How about, do you wanna just remind everybody?
• 12:35
  Tina Strachan: I did.
• 12:35
  Tina Strachan: And then, and I said I'm gonna put it all up on, um, on Inster and I, you know what?
• 12:40
  Tina Strachan: I have been so busy that I haven't totally got round to it, but I've started and um, so I have a couple of library events mm-hmm.
• 12:47
  Tina Strachan: Up here.
• 12:47
  Tina Strachan: Gold Coast Libraries.
• 12:48
  Tina Strachan: Uh, in the school holidays I have an event at Quip Brown Fox, which is a, um.
• 12:55
  Tina Strachan: Writing workshop.
• 12:56
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 12:57
  Tina Strachan: Um, which is all about writing wild characters.
• 13:01
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 13:01
  Tina Strachan: And settings.
• 13:03
  Tina Strachan: Um, and I also have an event at where the Wild Things are in West End, in Brisbane, and that is a, uh, Wilder Zoo Crew workshop.
• 13:15
  Tina Strachan: So kids come along and test your skills and see if you can make it as a Wilder Zoo Crew member.
• 13:21
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna, we've got some little.
• 13:23
  Tina Strachan: You know, wildlife trivia and we're gonna do a little mock vet exam on, on a rescued, I'm doing bunny ears.
• 13:30
  Tina Strachan: It's a stuffed animal, um, rescued animal.
• 13:34
  Tina Strachan: And, um, yeah, I've got a few more things and I'm just getting the final details on, um, for August.
• 13:39
  Tina Strachan: So, yeah.
• 13:39
  Tina Strachan: And
• 13:39
  Madeleine Cleary: so where can people find all these events and booking links?
• 13:43
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, on uh, my Instagram at the moment.
• 13:45
  Tina Strachan: So yes, just at, um, Tina, just search Tina Strachan.
• 13:49
  Tina Strachan: And, um, you shall find me in your link.
• 13:53
  Tina Strachan: You link in
• 13:53
  Madeleine Cleary: your bio or is that where
• 13:55
  Tina Strachan: Oh, yes, the, so the link is on in the bio there.
• 13:57
  Tina Strachan: That's probably the best place and.
• 14:00
  Tina Strachan: Very soon.
• 14:00
  Tina Strachan: I should have them on the website as well.
• 14:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Brilliant.
• 14:03
  Madeleine Cleary: Keep an eye out for that.
• 14:04
  Madeleine Cleary: That's exciting.
• 14:05
  Madeleine Cleary: And all in Queensland.
• 14:06
  Madeleine Cleary: And then you'll be down in Melbourne as well.
• 14:08
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, end of August.
• 14:09
  Tina Strachan: Uh, book launch for Nika in the store.
• 14:12
  Tina Strachan: Book two at Melbourne Zoo.
• 14:14
  Tina Strachan: So, okay.
• 14:15
  Tina Strachan: Tickets will be so it's gonna be super fun, but tickets will be quite limited, um, for that.
• 14:20
  Tina Strachan: Unless you've got a pass to the zoo, which I know lots of people do who have kids.
• 14:23
  Tina Strachan: And then you could just come in and
• 14:24
  Madeleine Cleary: wait.
• 14:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Am I.
• 14:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:27
  Madeleine Cleary: You're on VIP list, so I get, I'm one of the VIPs.
• 14:29
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 14:29
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 14:30
  Tina Strachan: You got an automatic ticket.
• 14:31
  Tina Strachan: Fantastic.
• 14:33
  Tina Strachan: Uh, no, but that's gonna be super fun.
• 14:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Who's, who's, who's in your in convo partner in Melbourne, Catherine Collette.
• 14:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, you should have asked me.
• 14:41
  Madeleine Cleary: Tina.
• 14:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Jealous Bloody clack, Catherine.
• 14:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Always getting the good, the good gigs.
• 14:50
  Tina Strachan: Well when you write your middle grade, um, hey, I've been a
• 14:56
  Madeleine Cleary: middle grade reader before I've read.
• 15:05
  Sarah Lane: Hi, my name's Sarah Lane and I'm here to tell you all about my debut picture book Surprise Shark Illustrated by the super talented Patrick Corrigan and published by the beautiful team at Affirm Press.
• 15:18
  Sarah Lane: It's hard to make friends when you're a shark, but this shark has a foolproof plan for winning people over if only they'd stop running away.
• 15:27
  Sarah Lane: A surprising story about finding friendship in the most unlikely places.
• 15:33
  Sarah Lane: Surprise Shark came about after my son had to rewrite the ending to Whitney and Britney Chicken Divas during COVID Home Learning.
• 15:40
  Sarah Lane: And he put a shark in.
• 15:42
  Sarah Lane: And I thought, how wonderful that in his mind, a shark could just show up anywhere.
• 15:47
  Sarah Lane: Kids' brains are the best.
• 15:50
  Sarah Lane: And that got me thinking about the most awkward, unlikely scenarios in which a shark could arrive and surprise shark was born.
• 15:58
  Sarah Lane: Surprise shark has been described as delightfully, energetic, and a joy to read aloud with fun, rhyme and cheeky dialogue.
• 16:06
  Sarah Lane: Shark defies stereotypes and is full of humor and heart.
• 16:11
  Sarah Lane: Thank you to Tina and the book Deal podcast for the opportunity to share Surprise Shark with you today.
• 16:17
  Sarah Lane: Surprise Shark is out now and I can't wait to share it with you.
• 16:21
  Sarah Lane: Bye for now.
• 16:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, so I've had lots of friends.
• 16:28
  Tina Strachan: I haven't attended too many events myself, but you've had a busy weekend.
• 16:33
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 16:34
  Madeleine Cleary: At a festival.
• 16:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Fun.
• 16:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 16:35
  Madeleine Cleary: So yesterday was, um, well it's over this whole weekend actually, the Williamstown Literary Festival in Victoria, Willy Lit.
• 16:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and yeah, it was super fun.
• 16:44
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I did an event yesterday afternoon.
• 16:47
  Madeleine Cleary: It actually was a so solid out event as well, which is very, very cool.
• 16:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, that's very cool.
• 16:52
  Madeleine Cleary: So it was a packed room.
• 16:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, yeah, it was in conversation with.
• 16:56
  Madeleine Cleary: An author called Rochelle Siemienowicz, and she wrote a book called Double Happiness.
• 17:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and the, the topic was Sex, love and Taboo, which is, oh, that sounds so exciting, isn't her?
• 17:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 17:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Topic.
• 17:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Our books are entirely different, but Charlotte, so Charlotte Guest, she's, um, an incredible book seller.
• 17:15
  Madeleine Cleary: She's the store manager at Book Bird in Geelong, and she, we, we had met at STR to Writers Festival.
• 17:21
  Madeleine Cleary: She's brilliant and she's a brilliant moderator.
• 17:24
  Madeleine Cleary: I've heard this.
• 17:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, she's incredible.
• 17:26
  Madeleine Cleary: And so she facilitated the conversation and, um, her questions just really, she found all these amazing synergies mm-hmm.
• 17:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Between the books.
• 17:35
  Madeleine Cleary: And I love that, that, you know, when your book is deeply read in that way.
• 17:39
  Madeleine Cleary: Um.
• 17:40
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's a privilege, I think.
• 17:42
  Madeleine Cleary: So we had a fantastic event and then afterwards, um, so as signing books, um, had a fan of the podcast come up, which is so lovely.
• 17:52
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, Georgie Foster, who's an emerging writer herself.
• 17:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, so we had a good chat about that.
• 17:59
  Madeleine Cleary: And, um, yeah, had some like, just nice chats with readers, which was really, really lovely.
• 18:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, so.
• 18:06
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, is there something very energetic and heartwarming about writers festivals?
• 18:11
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm not sure.
• 18:11
  Madeleine Cleary: And it's, it's just, yeah, a little bit different, I think, because.
• 18:16
  Madeleine Cleary: It just attracts a whole different type of audience and people can just float between events and it's really cool.
• 18:22
  Madeleine Cleary: And as a writer attending, it's, it's fun.
• 18:25
  Madeleine Cleary: You get to go into the green room, which is really cool.
• 18:28
  Madeleine Cleary: That sounds very exciting.
• 18:30
  Madeleine Cleary: I was in there and I, I was too nervous, of course, um, to approach them, but.
• 18:34
  Madeleine Cleary: The first person I saw was Claire Wright.
• 18:36
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 18:37
  Madeleine Cleary: Who wrote The Forgotten Rebels of Eureka.
• 18:39
  Madeleine Cleary: And I'm a massive fan and I just like Star at her from the corner for a while.
• 18:44
  Madeleine Cleary: Really awkwardly.
• 18:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Go and talk to her though.
• 18:46
  Madeleine Cleary: No, I was too embarrassed.
• 18:47
  Madeleine Cleary: I was like, oh, what am I?
• 18:49
  Madeleine Cleary: And she's so smart and intelligent as well.
• 18:51
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't even know how I would engage with someone like Claire Wright.
• 18:53
  Madeleine Cleary: And then the next person that came into the Green room was, um, Kate Granville.
• 18:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Again, and she was like, she's so cute looking.
• 19:02
  Madeleine Cleary: And I was like, I can't, I just don't know what I could say to someone as amazing and, and smart as Kate Granville.
• 19:08
  Madeleine Cleary: So I just, um, I hung out with my crew.
• 19:11
  Madeleine Cleary: So,
• 19:12
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 19:12
  Tina Strachan: Experience though.
• 19:13
  Tina Strachan: Sure
• 19:15
  Madeleine Cleary: there was people like,
• 19:15
  Tina Strachan: oh, that's Madeleine Cleary.
• 19:17
  Tina Strachan: No, no.
• 19:19
  Tina Strachan: May.
• 19:19
  Tina Strachan: Okay, well maybe next year.
• 19:20
  Tina Strachan: But that's an incredible experience.
• 19:22
  Tina Strachan: All of it, like the green room and especially, you know, having, um, people come up and chat fans off the podcast, fans off your book.
• 19:29
  Tina Strachan: So you can see why festivals are highly sought after for.
• 19:35
  Tina Strachan: Authors.
• 19:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, it's a great opportunity.
• 19:36
  Madeleine Cleary: Emerging authors are very
• 19:37
  Tina Strachan: interested.
• 19:38
  Madeleine Cleary: It's, it is a good opportunity.
• 19:39
  Madeleine Cleary: And if, and yeah, probably I should have gone up, but I was hanging out, I was having great chats with, um, Ali Parker, so we got to hang out.
• 19:46
  Madeleine Cleary: She's another fan of the podcast.
• 19:47
  Madeleine Cleary: And of course, um, I saw, um, Marion Taf was there, so she was in conversation with Gail Holmes.
• 19:54
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, so it was nice to see some of our debut crew there.
• 19:56
  Madeleine Cleary: I was gonna say,
• 19:57
  Tina Strachan: I saw lots of debut crew photos coming up all over the socials.
• 20:00
  Tina Strachan: I was feeling very jealous.
• 20:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 20:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, I'm sorry.
• 20:02
  Madeleine Cleary: But she could have you here, Tina.
• 20:04
  Madeleine Cleary: But no, it was good.
• 20:05
  Madeleine Cleary: It was so I was having lots of engaged conversations with lots of different people and, um, yeah, it, it is, it is fun.
• 20:12
  Madeleine Cleary: They're diff it's difficult to get festivals and I think as a debut writer, you can't really expect to get any, like, if you get one or two, like that's pretty amazing.
• 20:21
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, because, you know, there's, there's so many amazing writers out there and festivals.
• 20:29
  Madeleine Cleary: Need to be able to draw a crowd and as an unknown quantity, you are taking a risk on, on people like us, I suppose.
• 20:38
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's great that festivals are taking the chances on debut writers.
• 20:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, but yeah, often it is, um, you know, the people who I've met, I suppose in.
• 20:50
  Madeleine Cleary: The two years that I've been part of this community and networking and build, it's not really networking, it's just like community building, isn't it?
• 20:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 20:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, that's helped.
• 20:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 20:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Networking
• 20:59
  Tina Strachan: sounds like you're trying to sell something, doesn't it?
• 21:02
  Tina Strachan: I know, but it sounds it's not like that at all, is it?
• 21:04
  Tina Strachan: It's just, uh.
• 21:07
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, it is building community, I think is a much better word for it.
• 21:11
  Tina Strachan: That's
• 21:11
  Madeleine Cleary: right, that's right.
• 21:12
  Madeleine Cleary: And like for example, um, I, I don't mind saying this.
• 21:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I met, um, Emily Westmoreland, who's the director of Willie Lip Festival at an event that I attended with, um, so Barbara Minton, who's the historian, she was in conversation at.
• 21:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, a, a, an event.
• 21:30
  Madeleine Cleary: That book and paper in Williamstown where the festivals had organized like over a year ago, we got chatting at that event.
• 21:37
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, she asked about my book.
• 21:38
  Madeleine Cleary: So I talked to her about that and then, you know, that's how I think I.
• 21:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Having that connection with the director, she then remembers you and your face and then, you know, the invitation came along.
• 21:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and I've since found out too, like she's sort of, you know, recommended to another festival, a few of bus day booths and said, you know, take a chance on these ones.
• 21:58
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's amazing how.
• 22:00
  Madeleine Cleary: When you put yourself out there, go to these events to meet these people and hey, I should have listened to my own vice and probably gone up to Claire Wright and Kate Bel and introduce myself.
• 22:08
  Madeleine Cleary: But what it shows is that it is part of this, you know, putting you out there, out yourself out there is important.
• 22:14
  Madeleine Cleary: You get these kinds of opportunities.
• 22:16
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 22:17
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 22:19
  Tina Strachan: Um, which, which.
• 22:21
  Tina Strachan: Is true for lots of other things.
• 22:22
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 22:22
  Tina Strachan: Not just festival invites.
• 22:24
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 22:24
  Tina Strachan: You don't have to go and seek out all the festival directors, but there's lots of different things, appearances, um, you know, school visits, lots of things.
• 22:32
  Tina Strachan: 'cause there's, you know, a lot of authors and there's only so many spaces.
• 22:35
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 22:35
  Tina Strachan: And like you said, for debuts, you are an unknown quantity.
• 22:39
  Sarah Lane: Yes.
• 22:39
  Tina Strachan: Um, you, so I can imagine as, as a festival director, I wanna fill the room, you know, and I That's right.
• 22:45
  Tina Strachan: Also want the people who I invite to talk.
• 22:48
  Tina Strachan: To feel like they can fill a room as well.
• 22:50
  Tina Strachan: Um, so, and there would be so many authors that put their hand up to do it, who, um, have uh, really Strachan backgrounds and can absolutely fill a room and sell out.
• 23:03
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 23:04
  Tina Strachan: And so it is so that is the people that you're, that you're up against.
• 23:07
  Tina Strachan: That's right.
• 23:08
  Tina Strachan: But there's probably a few different, um, maybe angles that you can take in that some, a lot of festivals do like to do debut panels.
• 23:15
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 23:15
  Tina Strachan: Or do like, you know, new books or new faces in the military community, which is nice.
• 23:22
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 23:22
  Tina Strachan: Or if you have some kind of angle so you could, you know, you could definitely go, uh, for, you know, historical.
• 23:30
  Tina Strachan: Panels.
• 23:30
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 23:31
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 23:31
  Tina Strachan: Like, you'd still be very relevant for that and people would still definitely be very interested.
• 23:35
  Tina Strachan: So just about finding your niche, I guess, that you could Yeah, that's right.
• 23:38
  Tina Strachan: That you could play on that.
• 23:39
  Tina Strachan: Have you ever pitched yourself to festivals?
• 23:42
  Tina Strachan: I haven't
• 23:43
  Madeleine Cleary: neither.
• 23:44
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 23:45
  Tina Strachan: Um, I will though.
• 23:47
  Tina Strachan: It's my plan.
• 23:48
  Tina Strachan: Um, it is my plan on my list, and I know that you have to do it very early for those people who do wanna pitch themselves.
• 23:55
  Tina Strachan: Um, you have to get in really early, I think.
• 23:58
  Tina Strachan: Literally, by the time the festival's over, they're thinking about the next one.
• 24:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 24:01
  Tina Strachan: And it's, I'd say maybe at least nine months outright.
• 24:06
  Tina Strachan: They're, they're trying to start putting out feelers for names.
• 24:10
  Tina Strachan: They are of, um, yeah.
• 24:12
  Tina Strachan: People for the next festival.
• 24:13
  Tina Strachan: So don't leave it too late either.
• 24:15
  Tina Strachan: If you, uh, do you wanna get to a festival soon?
• 24:18
  Tina Strachan: Um, it's not always, you don't always have to pitch yourself though.
• 24:21
  Tina Strachan: Publishers do pitch for you.
• 24:23
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 24:24
  Madeleine Cleary: That's what
• 24:24
  Tina Strachan: I've,
• 24:24
  Madeleine Cleary: yeah.
• 24:25
  Madeleine Cleary: At least I think some publishers do there.
• 24:27
  Madeleine Cleary: I think there are perhaps some of the smaller presses that might not have that capacity to do.
• 24:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 24:32
  Madeleine Cleary: To do so and so they rely on an external freelancer or perhaps the author to represent themselves.
• 24:38
  Madeleine Cleary: That can also be better sometimes because.
• 24:42
  Madeleine Cleary: The author approaching a pub, like a Fed Festival director can be, you know, more, perhaps more tailored, um, and more likely to receive a response.
• 24:54
  Madeleine Cleary: You know, you're making that connection.
• 24:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, and we're not suggesting that, obviously people just go start hounding um, festival directors over Instagram and saying, why can I be on your festival?
• 25:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Think about your pitch.
• 25:05
  Madeleine Cleary: And there's
• 25:06
  Tina Strachan: usually a formal method for this, isn't there?
• 25:08
  Tina Strachan: I think it's, um.
• 25:10
  Tina Strachan: I think you can find it on their website.
• 25:11
  Tina Strachan: If there's a festival that you really want and you, and with pictures, I think it's the same for everything, right?
• 25:16
  Tina Strachan: For PO people who wanna pitch podcasts, we get a lot of them as well, don't we, Madeleine?
• 25:20
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 25:21
  Tina Strachan: Um, most certainly.
• 25:24
  Tina Strachan: I.
• 25:24
  Tina Strachan: Um, pictures where people can tell you what they're going to talk about or what they can talk about or what the difference is for them.
• 25:33
  Tina Strachan: Um, certainly can make a difference when you, when you're pitching anything, festivals, school visits, all those sorts of things.
• 25:39
  Tina Strachan: Give an example of what you're gonna talk about.
• 25:41
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 25:42
  Tina Strachan: Um, example of times.
• 25:43
  Tina Strachan: When you've done it before, even, um, is handy or all of that help is extremely helpful.
• 25:48
  Madeleine Cleary: I agree.
• 25:49
  Madeleine Cleary: I agree.
• 25:49
  Madeleine Cleary: And, um, I guess we've kind of been surprised at, um, the amount of pictures that we get from authors who want to come onto the podcast and it's, it's.
• 25:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Very, uh, flattering to, to receive those pictures.
• 26:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 26:02
  Madeleine Cleary: It's also quite difficult for us, isn't it though, Tina?
• 26:05
  Madeleine Cleary: Because we wanna have as many people as we can on the show, but we only conduct, you know, limited number of interviews.
• 26:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and so we've got a bit of a backlog, I think, at the moment.
• 26:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and I agree it's the ones that, um, also I think take, and this is the same for when you're pitching to anybody, any like a library or a festival.
• 26:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Um.
• 26:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Show that you are engaged with that individual entity.
• 26:32
  Madeleine Cleary: So the best pictures that I've seen to the podcast said, oh, I really love this episode where you talked about this like this.
• 26:38
  Madeleine Cleary: I took away this.
• 26:39
  Madeleine Cleary: I've noticed there's a gap.
• 26:41
  Madeleine Cleary: You haven't actually spoken about this.
• 26:43
  Madeleine Cleary: I can feel that gap for you.
• 26:44
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 26:44
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah,
• 26:44
  Tina Strachan: definitely.
• 26:46
  Tina Strachan: Because everyone's looking for something a little bit different, or they're looking for an angle that they can.
• 26:50
  Tina Strachan: Push and promote.
• 26:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 26:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 26:52
  Madeleine Cleary: And um, and I think that's the same with libraries as well.
• 26:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Like you can look at, well, who some of the authors that they have taken and done events with in the past or bookshops and then said, well, you know, I, I'm similar.
• 27:05
  Madeleine Cleary: I can do this, I can talk about this.
• 27:07
  Madeleine Cleary: I think your, your community would really appreciate this.
• 27:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, I think there's ways that you can kind of.
• 27:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Make it different rather than just a stock standard.
• 27:15
  Madeleine Cleary: This is my book, this is who I am, please have me on.
• 27:18
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 27:19
  Tina Strachan: 'cause you have to think there's a lot of, they're getting a lot of these pictures.
• 27:22
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 27:22
  Tina Strachan: So you really need to make yourself stand out.
• 27:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 27:25
  Madeleine Cleary: And I guess, because this is just interesting as well, we do get pictures from publicists as well.
• 27:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 27:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, from publishing houses and sometimes the pitches that we get, um, you know, there's 10 authors in one pitch.
• 27:39
  Madeleine Cleary: And so I guess that's useful for us to know that.
• 27:42
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause I didn't know that mm-hmm.
• 27:43
  Madeleine Cleary: When, before we started the podcast that publicists are very busy
• 27:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:50
  Madeleine Cleary: People and they might not be able to do an individual, you know, everything's tailored, everything's beautiful.
• 27:56
  Madeleine Cleary: It's all lovely.
• 27:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 27:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, but often, sometimes one of many bundle
• 28:01
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 28:02
  Tina Strachan: You're bundled up.
• 28:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 28:03
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 28:03
  Tina Strachan: Which is, which is fine.
• 28:05
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 28:05
  Tina Strachan: Um.
• 28:06
  Tina Strachan: Now with festivals back to festival.
• 28:12
  Tina Strachan: Are we expecting to get paid
• 28:14
  Madeleine Cleary: for festivals?
• 28:14
  Madeleine Cleary: Madeleine?
• 28:15
  Madeleine Cleary: I think yes.
• 28:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 28:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 28:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, all the festivals I've done so far have been paid for that time.
• 28:22
  Madeleine Cleary: And I think actually authors on a panel get an easier ride than the moderators do.
• 28:27
  Madeleine Cleary: There's a lot of work that goes into moderator.
• 28:29
  Madeleine Cleary: I agree.
• 28:31
  Madeleine Cleary: I agree.
• 28:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 28:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Because you have to read the books at least.
• 28:33
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 28:33
  Madeleine Cleary: At least the books that they've been published and yeah.
• 28:36
  Madeleine Cleary: Not the back list of those authors as well.
• 28:39
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 28:39
  Madeleine Cleary: And then you.
• 28:41
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, yeah, prepare so much.
• 28:42
  Madeleine Cleary: I know Charlotte has had done so much preparation, so, um, but we do for love as well.
• 28:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, but yes, authors should absolutely be paid for festivals, don't you think?
• 28:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, I
• 28:53
  Tina Strachan: agree.
• 28:54
  Tina Strachan: I agree and I think they, I.
• 28:56
  Tina Strachan: Uh, a lot of festivals, the good festivals are, are go to a lot of, um, effort to make sure that the guests, all the guests are fairly paid.
• 29:07
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 29:07
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 29:07
  Tina Strachan: Um, and you know what that means?
• 29:09
  Tina Strachan: That they'll get big.
• 29:11
  Tina Strachan: Um, reputable names coming to their festivals again as well, because they, uh, know how much time it takes.
• 29:17
  Tina Strachan: It takes time.
• 29:18
  Tina Strachan: It's not just turning up for that, you know, 45 minute, half an hour panel for you.
• 29:23
  Tina Strachan: It's, you do have to think about what you might say.
• 29:27
  Tina Strachan: You've gotta probably take the time off.
• 29:28
  Tina Strachan: You gotta travel there.
• 29:29
  Tina Strachan: It is work.
• 29:30
  Tina Strachan: It's probably on your, on your weekend if it's a weekday.
• 29:33
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 29:33
  Tina Strachan: A sometimes take time off of work to do it.
• 29:36
  Tina Strachan: Like it's, um, and it's taking away from writing time.
• 29:38
  Tina Strachan: That's right.
• 29:39
  Tina Strachan: That's right.
• 29:40
  Tina Strachan: But yeah, it, it is important.
• 29:42
  Tina Strachan: Um, and of course, uh, a SA Australian Society of Authors would have all those, um, rates of pace, which would include festivals, I believe they have like mm-hmm.
• 29:51
  Tina Strachan: Different, um, appearances.
• 29:53
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 29:53
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 29:53
  Tina Strachan: Rates of pays Yep.
• 29:54
  Tina Strachan: For panels and all those sorts of things.
• 29:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, for sure.
• 29:58
  Madeleine Cleary: It's, it's, it, it's, yeah.
• 29:59
  Madeleine Cleary: I think we've just got discussed this on the, um, the podcast before.
• 30:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Even if there's no indication of pay, it's still important for authors to ask the question.
• 30:10
  Madeleine Cleary: And even if you're happy to do it for free, it's also still important to say, well, I'm waiving my fee for this case for you.
• 30:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, yeah,
• 30:17
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 30:18
  Tina Strachan: That's fair.
• 30:18
  Tina Strachan: And I think always send a link to the ASSA rates of pay so people know where it's coming from.
• 30:22
  Tina Strachan: Yes, exactly.
• 30:23
  Tina Strachan: That's what I think.
• 30:23
  Tina Strachan: Exactly.
• 30:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 30:25
  Tina Strachan: Hey, speaking of festivals, can I plug the MB and Crime Writers Festival?
• 30:30
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 30:32
  Tina Strachan: So the Rom Crime Crime Writers Festival is, it's the first one this year and it's being held.
• 30:37
  Tina Strachan: That's a tongue
• 30:37
  Madeleine Cleary: tied is, is it?
• 30:39
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh no it wasn't Little bit for me.
• 30:39
  Madeleine Cleary: Rum, the
• 30:39
  Tina Strachan: Crime Writers Currumbin and Crime Writers, Currumbin Crime Writers Festival the 15th to 16th of August.
• 30:46
  Tina Strachan: So two days in August, and the beautiful bin, um, up here on the Gold Coast, or an incredible venue.
• 30:53
  Tina Strachan: Uh, the guest of honor this year is Fiona Macintosh, and she is, I, I think maybe there might only be a couple of tickets left if that, for her workshop.
• 31:03
  Tina Strachan: So she's holding a workshop, which is gonna be incredible.
• 31:06
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, get to spend, um, some time with her and work on your crime writing.
• 31:09
  Tina Strachan: Um, also Hailey Scrivener, January Gilchrist and Ali Lowe.
• 31:13
  Tina Strachan: So some really big names.
• 31:15
  Tina Strachan: Uh, so if you're a crime writer, I'm sure everybody would know who they are and, uh, very.
• 31:21
  Tina Strachan: But also Alex ett will be there, the literary agent, Alex ett giving, uh, people advice on their manuscripts.
• 31:27
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 31:28
  Tina Strachan: And Rebecca Saunders from her, she will also be there giving some feedback.
• 31:32
  Tina Strachan: Um, so yeah, workshops, panels, uh, networking sessions as well.
• 31:36
  Tina Strachan: We're just talking about how important networking sessions are.
• 31:39
  Tina Strachan: Um, and, uh, it's gonna be an incredible event in such a beautiful spot.
• 31:43
  Tina Strachan: So.
• 31:44
  Tina Strachan: Know, maybe, uh, pitch them for next year.
• 31:46
  Tina Strachan: Everybody, if you wanna go and pitch them.
• 31:48
  Tina Strachan: But yeah, I go along, uh, rum, K Brothers Festival, check them out on their website.
• 31:52
  Tina Strachan: You can buy tickets on the website.
• 31:54
  Tina Strachan: Um, and it's a good excuse, excuse to spend two beautiful days, um, up here on the Gold Coast.
• 32:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, look, August in Melbourne is not great, so I think Sounds wonderful.
• 32:06
  Tina Strachan: It's, it's gorgeous
• 32:07
  Madeleine Cleary: that that could be a tax write off as well, right?
• 32:10
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely, absolutely could.
• 32:13
  Tina Strachan: So that's actually gonna be my top tip and recommendation for this episode, Madeleine, is to go and check out the Currumbin Crime Writers Festival books on tickets and um, yeah, spend winter
• 32:21
  Madeleine Cleary: up here on the Gold Coast.
• 32:23
  Madeleine Cleary: What about you, Madeleine?
• 32:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Beautiful.
• 32:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, I'm gonna go back on an old top tip and reiterate it, which I remember Natasha, our catch up chat saying that she, during a festival has solved.
• 32:36
  Madeleine Cleary: Some terrible complex problem in her plot.
• 32:39
  Madeleine Cleary: In her book during a festival, just sitting in the audience, listening, talking about writing.
• 32:46
  Madeleine Cleary: And sometimes it's nice.
• 32:48
  Madeleine Cleary: So if you are feeling stuck in your, in your manuscript, go up to Rumba in August or go to, there are so many incredible festivals in Australia and there's more and more every day you can actually go to literary listings.
• 33:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, so Jill runs that amazing website and her Instagram, and she has.
• 33:09
  Madeleine Cleary: All the incredible writers festivals on there, so check out literary listings.
• 33:14
  Madeleine Cleary: That's my top tip.
• 33:16
  Madeleine Cleary: That's great.
• 33:17
  Madeleine Cleary: That's awesome.
• 33:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, hopefully I get to see you at a festival soon, Madeleine.
• 33:20
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, I know.
• 33:21
  Madeleine Cleary: One day we'll be, uh, invited together doing the book deal podcast episode.
• 33:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Why?
• 33:26
  Madeleine Cleary: How fun would that be?
• 33:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Did you hear that festival directors
• 33:30
  Tina Strachan: we're available
• 33:31
  Madeleine Cleary: for gigs?
• 33:33
  Madeleine Cleary: That's right.
• 33:34
  Madeleine Cleary: We should pitch that.
• 33:36
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, that's something we could do.
• 33:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Let's, let's put that on our vision board, Tina.
• 33:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 33:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay, let's do it.
• 33:41
  Madeleine Cleary: I love it.
• 33:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Alright, talk soon.
• 33:45
  Madeleine Cleary: See you.
• 33:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Bye.
• 33:50
  Tina Strachan: Thank you for listening to the Book Deal podcast.
• 33:53
  Tina Strachan: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the pod so you can receive updates as soon as our new EPS drop and to keep up to date with what the pod is doing.
• 34:01
  Tina Strachan: You can also find us on Instagram.