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What's New(s): Doomsday and The Odyssey · Systematic Geekology

• 1:14
  Is the Odyssey the last movie in the let's get Matt Damon Home cinematic universe.
• 1:20
  And what are our thoughts on that doomsday trailer, which finally dropped this week?
• 1:24
  Hello, this is systematic geekology.
• 1:27
  We are the priest of the geeks.
• 1:28
  And I am one of your geekologists, Kevin Schaefer here with Evan and Jill.
• 1:33
  How are y' all doing tonight?
• 1:34
  I'm so good.
• 1:36
  So happy to be here and talk about this movie.
• 1:39
  Oh, this is one I've been anticipating all year.
• 1:41
  Like, I think even so the discussion than.
• 1:44
  Well, maybe not like the movie itself was like my most in failure, but I was so.
• 1:47
  I knew, like, I was gonna be so excited just to do the Aftermath podcast on this and to have the Doomsday trailer drop in the same week.
• 1:54
  You know, this is exciting, but.
• 1:56
  Yeah, but Evan, how.
• 1:58
  How are you tonight?
• 1:59
  Just, just.
• 2:00
  I'm just rocking along.
• 2:02
  Not gonna like it.
• 2:04
  Did you have an odyssey of yourself this week?
• 2:07
  Yes.
• 2:08
  Yes.
• 2:08
  Okay.
• 2:09
  Okay.
• 2:09
  I wish I saw it for these.
• 2:11
  The.
• 2:11
  For the second time, but I haven't it.
• 2:15
  I have seen it twice, so I'm.
• 2:16
  Yeah, I'll definitely talk about that.
• 2:17
  But yeah, but yeah.
• 2:19
  Awesome.
• 2:19
  Well, thank you all for joining us tonight.
• 2:21
  This is our what's News episode where we talk about all the latest things in geek culture.
• 2:26
  And of course, tonight we're going to be talking.
• 2:28
  We're going to be doing a spoiler discussion review of the Odyssey.
• 2:32
  Granted, I mean, you've had 3,000 years to read the book and, you know, you've had a week to see the movie, so I'm not really too worried about spoilers there.
• 2:41
  But we're also going to talk about the Avengers Doomsday trailer, which finally dropped this week after a lot of anticipation and wondering when that was going to come out.
• 2:49
  So be talking about those and we'll be talking about other geek stuff.
• 2:52
  Very excited.
• 2:53
  And if you are new to systematic ecology, welcome.
• 2:57
  Whether you're watching here on YouTube or you're listening to this later.
• 3:01
  Hey, thank you so much for joining us.
• 3:03
  And if you click on the link in the description, wherever you're watching or listening, you can find out ways to support us.
• 3:10
  You can subscribe, Support us on 4th wall and check out some cool merchandise there.
• 3:15
  And yeah, if you like this episode, check out the rest.
• 3:19
  We've got a lot of good discussions on all things geek and we have a great team of hosts here, so check us out.
• 3:26
  And I want to give a shout out to Daniel Sigman, one of our supporters here.
• 3:32
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• 3:36
  And if you become a supporter, you get a shout out on the show as well.
• 3:39
  So definitely click on those links and like, rate, review all those things, but awesome.
• 3:47
  Well, Evan and Jill, before we get into our main topics, let us get into our classic lightning round and talk about some of the other things we're geeking out on.
• 3:56
  Jill, we'll start with you.
• 3:58
  I am geeking out over the trailer for I Play Rocky.
• 4:02
  I just saw it last this week and I'm so excited.
• 4:06
  Rocky is maybe my favorite movie, like, of all time.
• 4:11
  I love Sylvester Stallone.
• 4:13
  I love this whole universe.
• 4:14
  This is a Peter Farrelli movie.
• 4:19
  He is awesome.
• 4:21
  And it's the same actor that played Al Pacino in the Offer, which was also a biopic about making a movie about Italian Americans.
• 4:29
  So I'm, I'm just very excited to see it.
• 4:31
  Can't wait.
• 4:32
  He's gonna be like the go to person.
• 4:33
  Like, oh, they need a biopic.
• 4:35
  Like, you know, like, I'm trying to think what they would do next, but, but it is uncanny how much he looks and sounds like Stallone.
• 4:44
  Like, I, I, I almost thought, I'm like, did they do like a de aging?
• 4:48
  Like, that's how like, like right on point it was.
• 4:51
  But that does look really good.
• 4:53
  I mean, I, I know you're a huge Rocky fan.
• 4:55
  Like, I mean, I love Rocky too, but, but like, we, we did our Ryan Coogler episode and you had infinitely more knowledge about the Rocky universe than I did.
• 5:03
  So it was fascinating.
• 5:05
  But yeah, but I, It's a weird obsession.
• 5:08
  Hey, it's.
• 5:08
  I mean, we all have, like, I think it's fascinating, but it is a fascinating franchise in terms of, like, you know, they made all the original ones they made then rebooting with Creed and, you know, like, going from
• 5:21
  this, like, whoever thought that it would go from this one, you know, underdog movie to one of the biggest franchises of all time.
• 5:28
  So, yes, like, that one does look good.
• 5:30
  I do love how not subtle the title is, but, you know, it'll be fun though, right?
• 5:37
  I was just like, I was just trying to think of, like, alternate.
• 5:40
  I don't think, like some kind of underdog thing, but they're like, nope, I play Rocky.
• 5:44
  That's the movie, but that's it.
• 5:46
  Yeah.
• 5:46
  Oh, my God.
• 5:47
  When I saw the trailer for it, I was reminded of the shame because I've never seen not one of the films really.
• 5:56
  I think I saw some of the first one at some point when I was a kid, and then I saw some of the.
• 6:02
  The Creed, but nope, I don't have any knowledge of it.
• 6:07
  Shame.
• 6:08
  Shame on the number.
• 6:09
  Well, this can be your introduction, and then you'll be very interested and want to go.
• 6:13
  Enjoyment.
• 6:15
  Bingo.
• 6:15
  Bingo.
• 6:16
  There you go.
• 6:18
  And you.
• 6:18
  The Creed movies are excellent.
• 6:20
  That's one of those, like.
• 6:21
  I mean, in terms of, like, legacy sequels.
• 6:23
  It's also like, reboot.
• 6:24
  I mean, they're.
• 6:25
  They're great.
• 6:26
  Oh, I didn't think about that.
• 6:28
  Yeah, a Legacy sequel.
• 6:30
  Yeah.
• 6:30
  Yeah.
• 6:31
  Sweet.
• 6:32
  Excellent picture.
• 6:33
  Evan, what about you?
• 6:34
  What else are you kicking out on?
• 6:35
  I'm doing the Clayface trailer that.
• 6:38
  Just.
• 6:39
  That.
• 6:39
  That.
• 6:40
  That literally just dropped a couple hours ago.
• 6:42
  Yeah, I've seen that a few times, and my first thing was I'm going to be watching it like this because that's how I watch the pig scene in the Odyssey.
• 6:52
  And that's exactly what's going on, too.
• 6:54
  And I was like, oh, dear Lord, I don't want to sit through this.
• 6:57
  But, yeah, that and I'm watching the neighborhood friendly Spider man on.
• 7:03
  Oh, great chase.
• 7:04
  Yeah, it's fun.
• 7:05
  It's super fun.
• 7:06
  Like, I like all the little twists on the characters and stuff, and the animation is super fun.
• 7:14
  It's really cool.
• 7:15
  That was one series.
• 7:16
  Like, when I remember when they originally announced it, they said it was gonna be like the Tom Holland Spider Man Year one kind of thing, and then they pivoted and made it its own thing.
• 7:25
  But I'm actually really glad they did it because they're less tied to continuity.
• 7:30
  And I mean, I.
• 7:31
  Colman Domingo as Norman Osborne is fantastic.
• 7:35
  I mean, they're, like, a lot of great voice talents in it, and.
• 7:37
  But, yeah, I like that.
• 7:38
  It's its own thing.
• 7:39
  And it's still.
• 7:39
  I mean, it can still kind of fit within the mcu, but it's also not in the same Earth.
• 7:44
  And, yeah, I just like that.
• 7:46
  It's a great show.
• 7:47
  Yeah.
• 7:47
  Yeah.
• 7:48
  I'm very excited.
• 7:49
  Is this on Disney plus?
• 7:50
  Oh, that's right.
• 7:51
  It is.
• 7:51
  Yeah.
• 7:51
  So it dropped, I want to say, like, two years ago, maybe, like, yeah, like year two, like, around the same time as X Men.
• 7:59
  97.
• 7:59
  And now season two is coming out.
• 8:02
  What is it like?
• 8:02
  Is that next month or two months something.
• 8:04
  It's coming up.
• 8:05
  This is coming soon.
• 8:06
  Yeah, yeah.
• 8:06
  Because.
• 8:07
  Because 97, season two has, like, a couple more episodes, and then friendly neighborhood comes up after that.
• 8:13
  But yeah, so it's a.
• 8:15
  It's only.
• 8:15
  I mean, the only disappointing thing is we, me and Christian have had this conversation multiple times of like TV today, even animation, they're like 10 episode seasons, so it flies by and it should be longer, but it's still
• 8:29
  really good.
• 8:30
  Yeah, so I definitely recommend that one, but excellent choice for me.
• 8:35
  So this weekend I'm going to Galaxy Con here in Raleigh and a Noah Khan concert.
• 8:41
  So I've been geeking out on like both very different things.
• 8:44
  But yeah, I mean, like, I've been playing Noah Khan nonstop along with like Olivia Rodrigo and Gracie Abrams, like all the, all the, like, pretty, like sad music, but also pop and all that, you know, like, that's kind
• 8:57
  of my jam lately.
• 8:59
  Oh, yes.
• 9:00
  Yeah.
• 9:01
  J.J.
• 9:01
  abrams daughter.
• 9:02
  Yeah.
• 9:02
  Yep.
• 9:03
  Yeah.
• 9:03
  Yep.
• 9:03
  What?
• 9:04
  I didn't know that.
• 9:05
  Yeah, no way.
• 9:06
  Cool.
• 9:07
  Uh huh.
• 9:07
  Yeah, yeah, so like that.
• 9:10
  So yeah, I got that concert on Saturday and then I'm going to Galaxy Con Friday and Sunday.
• 9:14
  So very excited for all that.
• 9:16
  There's some really good creators that'll be there and celebrities as well.
• 9:21
  So I'll talk more about it in the, like Post Con the next episode, but very excited for that.
• 9:28
  So it'll be good weekend, but yeah, cool.
• 9:30
  Awesome.
• 9:31
  Well, let's get into this.
• 9:32
  I know we have some big topics too, Dr.
• 9:34
  Knight.
• 9:35
  First, we're gonna start with the much anticipated trailer for Avengers Doomsday, which finally dropped this week.
• 9:42
  Now, of course, like, I don't know whose marketing team thought like, oh, let's just drop it online a week after the biggest movie of the year, like, instead of putting it in theaters.
• 9:53
  But you know, decisions are made, you know, because I'm sure Nolan would have been, I mean, yeah, Disney stuff.
• 10:00
  Like, especially with, you know, Downey in it and all that.
• 10:02
  Is it, like, he would have been fine having it come in with the Odyssey or something else.
• 10:08
  But, but anyway, it dropped on Monday,.
• 10:10
  So I would have preferred it more than the mother that.
• 10:14
  That I'm the freaking mother.
• 10:15
  Oh, that other mommy movie.
• 10:17
  Yeah.
• 10:17
  Did you, Jill, did you see that trailer when you saw Odyssey, that Jessica.
• 10:21
  No, because I got there right as.
• 10:23
  The movie was starting it.
• 10:26
  She could dodge the bullet.
• 10:27
  Like, it was like this, like, like this movie with Jessica Chastain where she plays like a mom and then she has like a.
• 10:36
  Some kind of demon clone and so who's terrorizing her family and it's just called the Other Mommy.
• 10:42
  But I mean, it doesn't.
• 10:43
  I mean, it looks like very difficult to find an October horror kind of movie, but it was a very weird one to place within the Odyssey.
• 10:51
  Yeah.
• 10:51
  Other than, I mean, yeah, Jessica Chastain has worked with Nolan before.
• 10:55
  In interstellar, but still it was just, it felt weird alongside like Dune and some of the others.
• 11:02
  But yeah, that was.
• 11:03
  Yeah, it made my dad jump because like I saw it within the second time and we saw it in IMAX and he's not a horror guy.
• 11:10
  And so like he was like, oh man, that looks creepy.
• 11:12
  I was like, yeah, I don't know.
• 11:14
  But it was, it was an odd one.
• 11:15
  But yeah, I think.
• 11:17
  I agree.
• 11:17
  I think this one would have been better.
• 11:20
  Evan, you and I have talked about Doomsday, but Jill, I don't know if you've.
• 11:23
  We've talked about much.
• 11:24
  So, like what, like where do you kind of stand in terms of your anticipation or lack thereof?
• 11:31
  I don't know, like for Doomsday and your just thoughts on the trailer as well.
• 11:37
  So I am so excited and I'm actually mad that we keep getting these little bits dropped every couple months.
• 11:44
  Like, just give us the movie.
• 11:46
  And honestly, I don't care if this movie is six hours long.
• 11:49
  I'm so excited to see all of these characters, all these storylines come together, like, thrilled.
• 11:56
  This trailer I loved is a super Thor heavy.
• 12:01
  And then I think I've talked about this with both of you guys before.
• 12:04
  My introduction to Marvel Comics and the MCU was through my kids and started, you know, so many years ago when they were little kids.
• 12:14
  And I just.
• 12:15
  Jack and I watched the trailer together.
• 12:17
  That's my almost 20 year old.
• 12:19
  And I'm like, wait, why is Dr.
• 12:22
  Doom so strong?
• 12:24
  This doesn't make any sense.
• 12:26
  And he goes, oh no, mom, you just didn't read those comics.
• 12:28
  Like he's actually kills Thanos in one of the comics.
• 12:31
  Like he's super strong.
• 12:32
  I'm like, oh, I gotta like reorient my whole brain around this Dr.
• 12:37
  Doom that like can stop Thor's hammer with two fingers.
• 12:40
  That's wild.
• 12:41
  And actually I.
• 12:42
  Well, I'm glad you brought that up because I.
• 12:44
  That's my big concern with like, I mean, I'm still excited for Doomsday, but like, that's my biggest concern is for the general public that isn't familiar with the character because in the movies he's only appeared in the.
• 12:56
  The 2005 and as if war movies where I thought, I mean, the actor was good, but you know, it wasn't, you know, like the powerful Doctor, he was a cheesy villain.
• 13:04
  And then we're not acknowledging the existence of the 2015 one that.
• 13:07
  That doesn't exist.
• 13:08
  So for the, for general audiences, they really don't know a lot about Doom as a character and how powerful he is.
• 13:14
  Because I, when I went with a friend last year to the Fantastic Four, like he also did, he thought like Doom was gonna.
• 13:22
  Was like a B villain that they were just like reinventing.
• 13:25
  Because RDJ's play, he's like, like he was surprised that he's like more powerful than Galactus.
• 13:31
  He's like that Galactus, like eats planets.
• 13:33
  Like, what's that?
• 13:33
  I was like, yes, he does.
• 13:35
  But there is, you know, this rich history with Doom and you know, like, they definitely highlighted in the trailer here.
• 13:42
  But that is my.
• 13:43
  While I'm excited for the movie, that's my biggest reservation is they have done no build up to him whatsoever.
• 13:49
  Because, you know, Thanos, yes, like, he did not have his own movie before Infinity War, but there was the momentum built up with all the post credit scenes, all the lore surrounding the Infinity Stones, like they were building
• 14:02
  up to this character.
• 14:03
  And then all of the storylines with all the Avengers, Guardians galaxy, all of that had been set up and established.
• 14:10
  And so you could have the movie with Infinity War from Thanos's perspective and have him as the protagonist.
• 14:16
  And it worked.
• 14:17
  And in that movie you got exactly, you understood exactly who he was, what his motivation was, what he wanted to do.
• 14:25
  And that's my biggest thing with like, I mean, because I mean, you know, I'm still, I've still seen every MCU movie in theaters, but I cannot deny that it's been rocky the past few years and there's been a
• 14:38
  lot of like, you know, back and forth and you know, characters I love, like Shang Chi, I love that movie has not shown up since then and you know, he's in this one.
• 14:47
  But you know, for how much, I don't know, because it's going to be a massive juggling act to both introduce an iconic villain and you know, have all of these characters play out, introduce the concept of incursions and
• 15:05
  the multiverse imploding.
• 15:07
  So, yeah, that's my biggest concern.
• 15:09
  I did like the trailer, but.
• 15:11
  Sorry, I'll shut up for a sec.
• 15:12
  Evan, what are your thoughts on both like doomsday in general and what you thought of the trailer?
• 15:18
  I.
• 15:20
  You guys said what I was gonna say.
• 15:22
  Yeah, it's great trailer.
• 15:24
  I can't wait for Doom.
• 15:26
  He's crazy powerful.
• 15:27
  And that a visual.
• 15:28
  That's a great visual of just him stopping the.
• 15:32
  With the, with the, with the two fingers.
• 15:35
  Great visual.
• 15:37
  Instantly tells the audience, boom.
• 15:39
  He's.
• 15:40
  He's.
• 15:41
  He's a menace.
• 15:43
  He's.
• 15:43
  He's yeah, he's.
• 15:45
  He is a problem.
• 15:47
  But then again, I also feel the same way as you, Kevin.
• 15:50
  Like, this is coming out of nowhere, pretty much.
• 15:54
  And I, and, and, and.
• 15:58
  But I also, I, I.
• 16:02
  I don't know how, how to say this, but it's also a reality that we live in because of the shift from Kane.
• 16:10
  Yeah.
• 16:11
  Unless they do some kind of retconning that, oh, we were planning this the whole time, and that kind of works then.
• 16:21
  Okay, cool.
• 16:22
  But I'm going to keep my judgment until I see the film, because I am crazy excited for this film.
• 16:31
  But I'm not gonna lie.
• 16:33
  I felt when I saw it, I was like, yeah, cool, but it's still the same thing.
• 16:38
  It's still.
• 16:40
  I.
• 16:41
  It still feels like Avengers.
• 16:43
  And I'm like, I think I have, I think I.
• 16:46
  I think I have superhero fatigue.
• 16:48
  And then, and then what?
• 16:50
  And then, and then what gave me hope was, nah, dude, I can't wait for a brand new day.
• 16:56
  Like, that is.
• 16:58
  I'm more.
• 17:00
  I am more excited about that than, Than, than, Than what I am for Doomsday, if I'm honest.
• 17:10
  So.
• 17:10
  Yeah.
• 17:11
  Yeah.
• 17:11
  Oh, I'm stoked for Spider Man.
• 17:12
  I mean, that's one where that storyline has been established.
• 17:16
  Like, they built a character and granted, I, you know, I know.
• 17:20
  I was just saying, like, oh, this doesn't compare to how well done the Infinity Saga was.
• 17:25
  That said, the Infinity Saga was not nearly as meticulously planned out as people think.
• 17:30
  Like it would.
• 17:30
  They were making it up as they went along as well.
• 17:32
  Like, they were constantly shifting plans.
• 17:35
  Like, I know I mentioned before the YouTube channel breakdowns and blockbusters, but the host there goes through all of those.
• 17:42
  Like, you know, what almost was the Avengers, what almost was civil war, etc.
• 17:46
  Like, they were constantly rewriting as well, and they made it work.
• 17:50
  But I think this, it is a little different because.
• 17:53
  Exactly.
• 17:54
  With the Kang thing and, you know, shifting.
• 17:56
  Like, I think it was always in the plan to bring Doom in, but I don't think they anticipated to do it first.
• 18:04
  Like, they wanted to do Kang, and then they had to pivot away from that.
• 18:07
  And so I think Doom would have been in like, Secret wars, but, but, you know, not right away.
• 18:13
  And, you know, and, and my.
• 18:15
  This is just my pr.
• 18:16
  I know I don't write for Marvel and they're, you know, Kevin Feige is not listening to this podcast, but maybe we can hope.
• 18:22
  But, but my, like, it just.
• 18:24
  I think of how cool it would have been if they had done an entire Doom movie before this, that was an adaptation of the Ed Brubaker books of Doom miniseries, which is one of the best, like, village and
• 18:37
  origin story comics of all time.
• 18:39
  And you could have it entirely from his perspective.
• 18:41
  You don't even need the Fantastic Four hardly in it.
• 18:45
  Like, that would have been a great story.
• 18:47
  And then do the big Avengers crossover with Doom to build them up.
• 18:51
  But that said, they do a great job in this trailer of establishing.
• 18:53
  No, this is, like you said, a terrifying villain.
• 18:56
  Not only that, but it's when they're talking about the threats here and Thor saying, like, we need a miracle.
• 19:02
  I think he's referring more to the fact that incursions are coming and the multiverse is about to die.
• 19:08
  Even, you know, Doom is more an instigator, and he's going to try to, like, take over.
• 19:12
  So I think there are multiple threats here.
• 19:16
  Jill.
• 19:17
  Also.
• 19:17
  Okay.
• 19:18
  Because I'm wearing my X Men shirt.
• 19:19
  Like, that was my biggest, like, you know, like, delight here, seeing them all in their glorious 90s costumes.
• 19:24
  But.
• 19:25
  Yes.
• 19:26
  Y.
• 19:26
  Yes.
• 19:26
  Oh, my gosh.
• 19:28
  So good.
• 19:28
  Because, like, I.
• 19:29
  Because I, like.
• 19:30
  Because were you, like, were there, other than Doom, like, were there any particular characters or teams here?
• 19:37
  You were just like, yes.
• 19:38
  Like, I mean, so excited to see.
• 19:41
  Well, I think everyone knows in the group that I'm, like, a big Magneto fan.
• 19:47
  So seeing him and Professor X, like, old.
• 19:50
  That those are my favorite characters.
• 19:52
  I'm very excited to see what happens there.
• 19:56
  Although I just.
• 19:57
  I need timeline.
• 19:59
  I'm gonna need someone to lay it out for me because I thought Professor X was dead in this world.
• 20:03
  We grieved for him and Logan, same here.
• 20:06
  It's a little confusing for me.
• 20:08
  That's okay.
• 20:10
  I dropped the trailer in a work channel the other day, and my boss was like, I haven't watched all the X Men movies by any kids.
• 20:16
  And I just said.
• 20:17
  I was like, okay.
• 20:18
  I love the X Men movies, but it is the most confusing, convoluted timeline in, I think, any movie franchise.
• 20:25
  Like, maybe even more so than Terminator.
• 20:28
  So I, like.
• 20:29
  They're like.
• 20:30
  I don't even know if you need to try to.
• 20:33
  If you try to wrap your mind around the logic of, like, Xavier dies when he comes back, but then, like, your head's going to hurt.
• 20:40
  Like, I've tried before, too.
• 20:42
  And there.
• 20:43
  And there's, like.
• 20:44
  With the.
• 20:45
  Yes.
• 20:46
  I mean, because they're like.
• 20:47
  That was the whole point of Days of Future Past was they were trying to, like, you know, bridge everything, like, create a new timeline there.
• 20:53
  But Then they still had inconsistencies with going forward with Apocalypse and then with Logan.
• 21:00
  Like, none of it lines up.
• 21:01
  I just kind of almost view them as individual.
• 21:04
  And there are theories, too, that the reason incursions are happening in the multiverse is, like, colliding here, is that the X Men started it all and, like, their Earth was the original one.
• 21:16
  And, and they've done the most time travel and screwing with the timeline.
• 21:20
  That's a theory.
• 21:21
  That's gonna be the instigator.
• 21:23
  Yeah.
• 21:23
  Okay, that makes sense.
• 21:24
  Okay, I'll take that.
• 21:25
  And then, notably absent were Wolverine and Storm, and they have both been super cryptic when people ask them in interviews if they're gonna be in this movie.
• 21:36
  So I do kind of still think we're gonna get those X Men that show up, even if it's not a big part.
• 21:41
  Oh, yeah, that makes me excited.
• 21:42
  Halle Berry coming back will be.
• 21:44
  That would be awesome.
• 21:45
  Perfect.
• 23:33
  Wild, right?
• 23:34
  That'll be perfect.
• 23:36
  I, Because Wolverine, I definitely think he's gonna be in sequel.
• 23:39
  I don't like.
• 23:40
  Yeah, I think Jackman, like, old Man.
• 23:43
  Like, like, I mean, there, I mean, I do have mixed feelings about, like, I think they eventually need to retire Hugh for the rebooted X Men, like, which is the other thing.
• 23:52
  They're supposed to announce the new X Men cast this weekend at Comic Con for the Mutant Saga.
• 23:59
  But, like, I don't even know if they'll adapt Wolverine there because I think they, they, they do need time with that.
• 24:04
  Like, I love Wolverine, but they, they need time to focus on some of the other mutants.
• 24:09
  But I think we'll still have him in Secret wars and then maybe be around as, like, Old Man Logan.
• 24:14
  But they need a new one, you know, post Secret wars, just to, like, pass on the mantle.
• 24:19
  I, I love Hugh Jackman, but he can't do it forever.
• 24:22
  And something tells me I don't have any knowledge, but I have a vibe that they're gonna, they're gonna spin something.
• 24:31
  They're gonna surprise us all.
• 24:32
  And Miles Morales is gonna.
• 24:35
  I mean, that would be awesome.
• 24:36
  Like, who do you think it's gonna be?
• 24:39
  Who would be a live action Miles Morales?
• 24:41
  Right.
• 24:41
  I know.
• 24:42
  I thought about that too.
• 24:43
  Like, like, well, they.
• 24:46
  Because they talked about Lucas from Stranger Things, but I think he would be better Static Shock.
• 24:51
  I like, I want that too.
• 24:52
  I, like, I, I want DC to make static as soon as possible.
• 24:56
  That's one they're just sitting on, and he would be perfect for that.
• 24:59
  So, like, I, I, I kind of.
• 25:00
  Miles, honestly, I think they should go with the lesser known, like, I mean, maybe like someone from TV or something like that.
• 25:06
  But I kind of want it to be not an instantly recognizable name.
• 25:12
  I could see him make it.
• 25:13
  Yeah, I.
• 25:13
  I could.
• 25:14
  I think Miles, if not definitely in Secret Wars, I just think, I mean, because.
• 25:20
  Because they're also saying Secret wars is going to focus heavily on the young Avengers and, and those characters.
• 25:28
  So, like, I think that would be the perfect opportunity there.
• 25:31
  I mean, because this one is going to be a massacre.
• 25:33
  We're going to see a lot die and universe implode, so we'll see who's left and also who makes it to Battle World.
• 25:44
  But yeah, yeah.
• 25:45
  Again, well, then I was having this conversation too at my Star Wars RPG last night, which I know, I mean like, like the, the one nerdy thing to the next, but we were talking about this and we were
• 25:54
  just like, I'm like, how.
• 25:56
  This is my.
• 25:57
  Again, my biggest concern about this movie.
• 25:59
  As excited as I am for it, I'm like, how do you convey concepts like this to quote unquote, like citizens out there who don't live and breathe this stuff like we do.
• 26:10
  Like, I mean, like I just.
• 26:12
  And, and you have to make.
• 26:13
  I mean, and this movie especially, it needs to make a billion dollars to like, for Marvel to go forward.
• 26:19
  Like, they've put too much money into it.
• 26:21
  They have, you know, like, like every actor in the MCU who's ever been there who is like ridiculous salaries, everything, they brought RDJ back and all the Avengers, like, it needs to do extremely well.
• 26:35
  And that's my.
• 26:36
  I know it did.
• 26:37
  It already made a huge amount in pre ticket sales.
• 26:40
  I got my tickets the other night too.
• 26:41
  But like opening weekend, like beyond opening weekend, it has to really sustain itself after that.
• 26:48
  So that's my only thing is like for people who are more casual moviegoers or casual fans of the mcu, will they really respond well to it?
• 26:56
  That's.
• 26:56
  Yeah, I think that's the biggest question mark right now.
• 26:59
  Yeah, but that said.
• 27:02
  So.
• 27:03
  Yeah.
• 27:04
  Yeah.
• 27:04
  Kevin.
• 27:05
  So hopefully as a cool segue, what cyclops do you mean in your description there?
• 27:13
  Yes.
• 27:14
  Okay.
• 27:14
  So excellent segue.
• 27:16
  I think that actually goes right into our next topic.
• 27:19
  So no, I did not play Scott Summers in any play.
• 27:24
  Would have been kind of cool actually.
• 27:26
  But Beast is my favorite X Men anyway, so I would rather.
• 27:29
  But no.
• 27:31
  So I actually, the night before Odyssey came out, Joe commented on my story here.
• 27:38
  I put on my Instagram story story that I was in a play of the Odyssey in high School.
• 27:42
  Oh, yeah.
• 27:43
  I was the voice of the cyclops Polyphemus.
• 27:46
  So, so I.
• 27:47
  Which that said I should know the text and everything going like better going into this.
• 27:53
  But it had been a long time since I'd done that play and since I've read.
• 27:57
  But nonetheless, you know, that goes perfectly into our next topic.
• 28:02
  So, yes, let's get into it.
• 28:04
  The big Christopher Nolan epic adaptation of Homer's the Odyssey.
• 28:09
  Wow.
• 28:09
  Whatever.
• 28:09
  I mean, you know, when I saw the first.
• 28:12
  I have seen it twice when I saw it the first time, we were friends and I were coming out of it, we were just like, I mean, what do we say?
• 28:17
  We're like, oh, yeah, that was, that was good.
• 28:19
  Like, I mean like we were just like.
• 28:20
  I mean we were just breathless in terms of how.
• 28:25
  What a spectacle it was, what an experience.
• 28:28
  I want to hear from y' all for.
• 28:29
  Okay, so I have a two part question to start this conversation.
• 28:32
  So talk about.
• 28:34
  What was your background with Homer's the Odyssey?
• 28:37
  Like I said with mine, it was the play and I had read the.
• 28:41
  In high school the year before that.
• 28:43
  But what was your background to that and also what's kind of your background with Christopher Nolan films in general?
• 28:49
  Are you a fan?
• 28:50
  Because as big a director is, I know, you know, there are still critics of his too, people who aren't as big super fans.
• 28:56
  And you know, that's totally valid.
• 28:59
  So, Joe, we'll start with you.
• 29:00
  Like, what was your background with the Odyssey and then with Christopher Nolan?
• 29:05
  So I read the Odyssey fairly recently because my daughter was reading it in high school.
• 29:11
  And I try to just like, you know, if they're interested in something, I'll get interested too.
• 29:16
  So I read it, I guess three years ago.
• 29:18
  And then she went on a whole Greek mythology, nice phase of her life.
• 29:24
  And so she's read all of these.
• 29:25
  They're kind of like, I don't know, they're like romance fantasy books.
• 29:32
  Circe has been her favorite one.
• 29:34
  There's Achilles.
• 29:35
  Anyway, she loves them and fills me in.
• 29:36
  But Odyssey is the only one I read with her.
• 29:38
  And I enjoy good Greek mythology.
• 29:41
  I think that's what the Avengers are, after all, is our modern day mythology.
• 29:47
  And I am not a huge Christopher Nolan.
• 29:51
  Stan, like, I enjoy his movies.
• 29:54
  Tenet is one of my favorites.
• 29:55
  But I think, Kevin, I told you before, I've seen it three times and every time I'm more confused than the last.
• 30:02
  It's just very hard to follow.
• 30:03
  But I enjoy that.
• 30:05
  I don't mind getting lost in something.
• 30:08
  And I have Some critiques of Nolan overall, though, he's a fantastic movie maker.
• 30:13
  And when I saw that you had seen this movie, Kevin, and enjoyed it so much and called it a masterpiece, I was like, that's it.
• 30:20
  I gotta go.
• 30:21
  So I went and took myself to the movies all alone, and I was so, so happy.
• 30:25
  I did.
• 30:25
  I loved it.
• 30:26
  Loved it.
• 30:27
  Did you get to see it on imax?
• 30:29
  Nope, but my husband wants to see it and so we'll go back and watch it on imax.
• 30:34
  Yeah, that's what I did the second time.
• 30:36
  The first one, it was still a big screen, but it was like.
• 30:40
  It was like the premium format at my theater.
• 30:44
  And then I saw imax.
• 30:45
  Oh, oh, and I forgot to mention, with Doomsday, we forgot to mention that you can see Avengers Doomsday in Infinity Vision, which is definitely not made up by Disney and Marvel.
• 30:54
  As a marketing employee, like, I don't know if you know, but yeah, for those of you don't know.
• 30:58
  That's right quick aside.
• 30:59
  But those of you who don't know, that is because Dune Part 3 is coming out the same day, same weekend, and they got all the IMAX screens.
• 31:07
  So in order to have like some kind of marketing prestige there, like, Disney just made up a new type of theater basically experience and called it Infinity Vision, which again, I think that's bs but they could have just
• 31:21
  shared the IMAX screens or had the weeks that said, yeah, but, but yeah, Odyssey.
• 31:27
  I did.
• 31:27
  So I guess I didn't like, not IMAX the first night.
• 31:30
  And then I went with my dad on Sunday and saw it on IMAX there and oh, what a.
• 31:34
  Yeah, you're in for a treat there, even having seen the movie already.
• 31:37
  Yeah, but yeah, Evan, about.
• 31:39
  What about you?
• 31:40
  So background with the Odyssey text and then with Nolan.
• 31:44
  So yeah, I.
• 31:48
  With.
• 31:49
  With the.
• 31:50
  With the text of the Odyssey.
• 31:54
  I.
• 31:55
  I read it in middle school, I think, but I didn't read it, if you know what I mean.
• 32:02
  Like, I couldn't comprehend it, so I pretended I did to a pass.
• 32:08
  And that's how I left it as one does.
• 32:12
  Yeah.
• 32:13
  So I didn't get it.
• 32:16
  However, the.
• 32:17
  A wishbone episode of the Odyssey.
• 32:20
  Live with me forever.
• 32:21
  And watching this film, I had so many memories, fond memories of.
• 32:26
  Of, of.
• 32:27
  Of.
• 32:28
  They just flooded.
• 32:29
  And I was like.
• 32:31
  I remember like my old house and the floor that was so weird and kind of broken and just.
• 32:39
  I was like, it kind of overwhelmed me for a second.
• 32:42
  I'm like, wow, completely.
• 32:44
  Just so I have that experience and like a lot of People, to be honest, if I'm honest.
• 32:57
  Kind of like the Bible.
• 32:59
  I thought this stuff happened in real life.
• 33:02
  Like, I thought this was literal truth.
• 33:07
  So it was.
• 33:08
  So I had to break away from that and have a little bit of a deconstruction.
• 33:16
  Was it the cyclops that you were like, maybe this isn't real.
• 33:22
  There's a whole episode here with this.
• 33:25
  Like, I can get into it, but we don't got the time.
• 33:29
  Okay.
• 33:30
  So.
• 33:30
  Yeah, no, trust me.
• 33:32
  Like, I'm very.
• 33:34
  I'm very gullible.
• 33:35
  I'm very gullible.
• 33:37
  If I see something, I believe it.
• 33:39
  I don't think that's.
• 33:40
  Although, like, that's the fascinating thing about mythology and I hope the power.
• 33:44
  Sorry, go ahead.
• 33:45
  No, I was just gonna say there are grown men on the Internet right now arguing with professors, PhDs in Greek mythology saying Helen of Troy was real and how dare she be played by a black woman.
• 34:00
  Yep.
• 34:00
  Well, she hatched out of an egg.
• 34:03
  Yeah.
• 34:03
  And that's not real.
• 34:04
  And her dad was a swan.
• 34:06
  And so that is what I'm talking about.
• 34:09
  I used to be that person.
• 34:12
  And then I realized I was like, oh, hold on.
• 34:17
  So I went back and I kind of.
• 34:20
  I did my legwork and I would love.
• 34:24
  Hey, I would love to read it again and see how my adult brain will, Will, will process it.
• 34:33
  Because, yeah, when I was just like.
• 34:37
  I was like, oh, hold up.
• 34:40
  Like, the according to dissonance was massive.
• 34:43
  I was like, wait a minute.
• 34:45
  So that's cool.
• 34:47
  So, yeah, so, yeah, but see, that's fascinating.
• 34:50
  Oh, and my comment was not to justify.
• 34:52
  Oh, gosh, those people that are like, like, racist.
• 34:55
  Like, I have NPC form, but it's so much.
• 34:58
  It's just.
• 34:59
  Wait, it's way overboard, like guys.
• 35:03
  Well, I also don't know.
• 35:04
  Oh, no, Evan, I know you posted earlier, but I saw that.
• 35:07
  Jill, I don't know if you saw this, but, like, Elon Musk is apparently going to make an AI adaptation of the Odyssey by end of year that is, quote, unquote, more accurate to historically accurate.
• 35:21
  Historically.
• 35:22
  Yep.
• 35:22
  To.
• 35:23
  I wish I had more empathy because that just sent me.
• 35:27
  That sent me.
• 35:27
  I was just like, oh, my goodness.
• 35:29
  Well, I think one of the things too, that people don't, like, often discuss is that the Odyssey was in existence for probably 600 years before it was ever even written down.
• 35:41
  The way that history was told.
• 35:43
  Even the books of the Bible, the way history was told was oral history.
• 35:47
  And it's meant to be interpreted by the culture that's telling the story, like, of course narrative is going to shift.
• 35:55
  The words, the language people use is going to shift as it moves into a different culture.
• 35:59
  It's actually one of the coolest parts about being a Christian.
• 36:03
  Like, my big awakening, or I guess, like, I don't really use the word deconstruction, but that's the simplest way to say it.
• 36:09
  The beginning of my deconstruction, talking to Christians in South America.
• 36:14
  And first, like, hearing how they read the Bible from the bottom up, and being an American that has always read the Bible from the top down, like, blew my mind.
• 36:25
  And that's great description.
• 36:27
  Yeah, yeah.
• 36:28
  Like, these historical pieces like the Iliad and the Odyssey and, you know, Norse mythology and Christian mythology.
• 36:38
  Some people will be upset that I use that phrase, but I do.
• 36:41
  It's meant to be interpreted by the culture that's interpreting it.
• 36:44
  It's silly.
• 36:45
  Historically accurate.
• 36:47
  Come on.
• 36:48
  One, one.
• 36:50
  One example of this, which I learned in my research, as you pointed out, I could be wrong because I'm.
• 36:58
  I just been doing this since I heard of the film.
• 37:01
  But that fact that she was born from an egg, that was from a version of a.
• 37:08
  That came from an interpretation that came a lot later, which I was like, oh, okay, cool.
• 37:16
  Like, very cool.
• 37:18
  That's very cool.
• 37:19
  Right?
• 37:19
  Like, I love that.
• 37:22
  That is how these stories, they will survive because they inspire the creativity after they are gone.
• 37:34
  I think.
• 37:35
  I think that's just so beautiful.
• 37:36
  And that goes into the experience that I had because me.
• 37:41
  Because me and my wife, we were like, should we take my son?
• 37:46
  He is 8.
• 37:47
  He seems kind of interested, but I don't want him to be bored, and I don't want him to have a.
• 37:53
  It wasn't the violence and stuff like that.
• 37:55
  We were just kind of worried that it was gonna go over his head and he wasn't gonna have a good time.
• 38:01
  But no, like, I'm tearing up thinking about it now.
• 38:05
  He freaking loved this movie.
• 38:07
  Oh, that's so cool.
• 38:09
  He laughed when he was supposed to laugh.
• 38:11
  He hated the.
• 38:13
  The Josh Pattinson character.
• 38:15
  He hated him with all his guts.
• 38:17
  I was just like, just.
• 38:20
  Yes, he gets it.
• 38:21
  He get it.
• 38:22
  His.
• 38:23
  His attention was held the whole time.
• 38:26
  Like, all three hours.
• 38:28
  He was just glued and like.
• 38:29
  Yeah.
• 38:29
  Oh.
• 38:30
  And.
• 38:31
  And he.
• 38:32
  And he had questions, and we had to go back and be like, okay, this is called a flashback.
• 38:37
  And this and that.
• 38:38
  But he was just.
• 38:39
  I was just.
• 38:40
  Oh, so glad that he got it.
• 38:42
  That he got it.
• 38:43
  That's so cool.
• 38:45
  And that's a long time to hold an eight year old's attention.
• 38:47
  Right.
• 38:48
  I was just like, here we go, here we go.
• 38:50
  And was he terrified or was he terrified during the CRC scene?
• 38:54
  Because that's one of my 100 and all the Samantha Morton, totally brilliant.
• 38:58
  But I was too.
• 38:59
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 39:01
  I was like, yes, I'm watching this now.
• 39:03
  Yeah.
• 39:03
  I'm like, ah.
• 39:06
  But to answer your Christopher Nolan one.
• 39:10
  And that kind of goes into it.
• 39:11
  He's.
• 39:12
  He's our modern day.
• 39:15
  I don't know how to call him.
• 39:17
  He's just one of the greats.
• 39:19
  He just one of the greats.
• 39:22
  I blame Star wars for.
• 39:27
  I blame Star wars and George Lucas for like, you know, just kind of putting words to my fandom is.
• 39:37
  Yeah.
• 39:37
  And then I blame Memento and Christopher Nolan in kind of, kind of, kind of funneling that kind of into a trade that I could go and become a filmmaker and.
• 39:52
  Yeah.
• 39:53
  So that, that Memento is a huge part in my life.
• 39:58
  It was.
• 39:59
  It's one of those kind of like, kind of like BC and AD kind of things.
• 40:06
  Yeah.
• 40:07
  Oh, that's cool.
• 40:07
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:09
  Oh, it's similar for me.
• 40:10
  I mean, I think Nolan had a profound impact on me as a storyteller.
• 40:13
  Like, you know, seeing, of course, the Dark Knight trilogy, you know, at the perfect time when I was a kid and in high school.
• 40:20
  And then also the Prestige had, you know, a huge impact on me.
• 40:24
  And it's still one of my favorites by him.
• 40:26
  Yeah, I love that movie.
• 40:28
  I mean, I did.
• 40:28
  That is one of the best films ever made.
• 41:31
  It really is.
• 41:32
  Oh, my gosh.
• 41:33
  I was rewatching it recently and it just, it still holds up.
• 41:38
  Like, not just like how the twist is done, but the performances, the energy, the execution.
• 40:42
  Yeah, that's.
• 41:44
  It's just one.
• 41:46
  Yeah.
• 41:47
  So I, I also, I've always been a huge NOLA fan.
• 41:49
  That said, like, I.
• 41:50
  As I've gotten older, I've come to understand some of the criticisms as well.
• 41:54
  Like that particularly mischaracterization of women characters has, you know, not always been stellar.
• 42:01
  Hugely cast amazing actresses.
• 42:03
  But I saw a meme the other day where it was like, going through Nolan's filmography is like, the wife is dead, the wife is missing, the wife is gone.
• 42:11
  You know, like, and.
• 42:12
  And kind of like.
• 42:12
  And I was like, yeah, that's pretty accurate.
• 42:15
  But, you know, and I.
• 42:17
  And I do want to talk about that too, how.
• 42:19
  Because I think this movie, not only is it, I mean, obviously an epic portrayal of, you know, an epic adaptation of the text and like, we were talking about the ways that Homer has influenced comic books and modern
• 42:32
  mythology.
• 42:32
  All of that is there, but I think this is also an excellent depiction of ptsd and it really zeroes in on the emotional impact of the character.
• 42:41
  And it's not portraying Odysseus as an unflinching hero in any way.
• 42:46
  It's a really complex portrayal there.
• 42:49
  But I do want to talk about how it portrays some of the other characters as well and what we thought of that.
• 42:55
  We can get into that first because so what.
• 42:59
  Who were y'?
• 42:59
  All?
• 43:00
  Some of your favorite characters.
• 43:01
  I mean, other than Odysseus, like, and even ones you hated, like, I mean, Pattinson's.
• 43:06
  I mean, I hated the character, but he was brilliant in the role.
• 43:10
  But like the surprise, the ones that were really stood out to me were, um.
• 43:16
  John Leguizamo was incredible as, um.
• 43:19
  As like the BO they like.
• 43:20
  And his character, I feel like, kind of emulated Homer in a way.
• 43:23
  Like he was kind of like the storyteller in the background, like the kind of all knowing one.
• 43:28
  He was incredible.
• 43:30
  I love Samantha Martin in the role of Seriously.
• 43:33
  And how that that entire scene done as this like, mini body horror film is brilliant.
• 43:39
  But Jill, who were like, what did you think of the portrayal of some of the other characters like Penelope, Telemachus, any of the myriad of supporting characters?
• 43:49
  Yeah, I think give Anne Hathaway the Oscar right now.
• 43:52
  She got snubbed for Les Mis, so just give it to her for this and that's fine.
• 43:58
  Brilliant portrayal.
• 43:59
  I think that character was written really well and I just think she knocked it out of the park.
• 44:04
  I loved Penelope.
• 44:07
  The surprise one for me was Himesh Patel.
• 44:10
  I loved his character.
• 44:13
  I didn't know that he was the main character in that movie yesterday.
• 44:17
  Do you know that film?
• 44:18
  I know that was him.
• 44:20
  I was like, whoa.
• 44:21
  Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry.
• 44:23
  No, no.
• 44:24
  That's a great pick.
• 44:25
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I loved it.
• 44:27
  And like, I really liked the Travis Scott character.
• 44:31
  Not that it stood out, like, oh, that was such a great acting performance.
• 44:34
  But I think like the brilliance of having the storyteller because as I said, this is a story that's meant to be orated and having like a popular rapper and then kind of tying in that rap is takes its
• 44:47
  history from this oral storytelling tradition that is African, specifically West African.
• 44:54
  Like, it just was really cool.
• 44:56
  I loved his character and seeing him, definitely.
• 44:58
  And then it opened with him.
• 45:00
  Yeah, I mean, it opened and it closed with him because he did that, the closing credit song too.
• 45:06
  And then Agamemnon I didn't see, like, you didn't see his face hardly at all.
• 45:11
  But that was the most badass costume I have ever seen.
• 45:15
  Like from the back with the spine, you know, coming down off of the helmet.
• 45:20
  That was so cool.
• 45:21
  Like, that actually is the visual that's gonna stick with me the most.
• 45:24
  Benny Safdie.
• 45:25
  And that roll, like, that was like, that was pretty great.
• 45:29
  Evan, I love your meme there of the like.
• 45:31
  Like, I knew who this was before he even took off the mask and like, yeah, had the Squidward meme there, but.
• 45:36
  Yeah, like, exactly.
• 45:37
  Yep, yep, yep, yep.
• 45:39
  I.
• 45:39
  I was thinking too, it's like all rise to the presence of dark Helmet.
• 45:42
  You know, like, as soon as he comes out, like, well, that too.
• 45:46
  Yeah, yeah, but it was.
• 45:47
  But all jokes aside, that was a terrifying portrayal.
• 45:51
  And.
• 45:51
  And also, like, the way they did the Hades scene when him and.
• 45:56
  And Sinan and the others, like, resurrect.
• 45:58
  And climb out of that dark sand.
• 46:02
  Oh, my God, so cool.
• 46:05
  And with Lupita and Yong' O not just playing Helen, but also her twin sister.
• 46:11
  And that when they do the flashback image of how Agamemnon is killed, like, that was.
• 46:17
  I mean, again, she.
• 46:18
  Even though she doesn't have a ton of screen time, like, the way she did that performance there when.
• 46:24
  When she betrays Agamemnon and kills him.
• 46:27
  Like, I was like, jumping out of my seat.
• 46:29
  There's a whole.
• 46:30
  There's a whole spin off series right there.
• 46:33
  That's.
• 46:34
  I could watch a show with that.
• 46:35
  I could watch a show.
• 46:36
  Absolutely.
• 46:37
  And that.
• 46:38
  And that brings me to.
• 46:40
  To John Bernthal.
• 46:43
  Like, I love how he was just John Bernthal and that still kind of works.
• 46:49
  I know.
• 46:49
  Cool.
• 46:50
  I know.
• 46:51
  Yeah.
• 46:51
  He's the Punisher in everything.
• 46:53
  And that's fine.
• 46:54
  Yes.
• 46:54
  Yeah.
• 46:54
  I was like, okay, cool.
• 46:57
  My pick.
• 46:57
  My picture of meeting him is up on my wall there.
• 46:59
  But like, yes, I will go to bat for Bernthal every chance I get because he was also like, the nicest guy when I met him.
• 47:05
  So.
• 47:05
  Yeah, no, my.
• 47:07
  My friend saw, as soon as he came on screen, he's like, oh, that's your boy there.
• 47:10
  I was like, yep.
• 47:11
  Yeah.
• 47:11
  Like, oh, yeah, he's okay.
• 47:13
  But yeah, but that brings an interesting point too, because there was definitely a fusion of, I would say, like, modern sensibilities and classic, like, in very much of the performances.
• 47:24
  So I like, I'm thinking like Anne Hathaway and Robert Pattinson, for instance.
• 47:30
  You could have had them in, like, a classic Shakespeare play in this like, they had that kind of.
• 47:34
  Like, even their dialogue was a little more like classic histrionic.
• 47:38
  Like, it was great there.
• 47:39
  And then something like Bernthal's felt more modern, but it didn't feel like it was in another movie at the same time.
• 47:46
  Like, it was this.
• 47:48
  It was a perfect, like, blend of all these styles and influences.
• 47:54
  And it all worked, you know?
• 47:55
  Yep.
• 47:56
  It was not out of place.
• 47:58
  No, Holland was great.
• 47:59
  Tom.
• 48:00
  Yeah, Holland, he was.
• 48:03
  I thought he was just gonna be like, oh, yeah, he's just there, like to bring in the younger kids.
• 48:08
  But no.
• 48:09
  Right.
• 48:09
  Oh, man.
• 48:10
  The scene with the dog where he finally dies at the end, when.
• 48:19
  I'm never gonna forget that scene.
• 48:20
  I'm never.
• 48:21
  That.
• 48:22
  That scene is so the.
• 48:26
  I can't put to words, but the way they have the restraint.
• 48:30
  Because if he went in.
• 48:33
  If he went in the guns blazing, so to speak, like he did with the war and the Trojan horse, he probably wouldn't have the.
• 48:43
  He probably wouldn't be the king or the song wouldn't be there.
• 48:47
  So he had to restrain himself.
• 48:49
  And he learned the lesson to not.
• 48:53
  To not do that Trojan horse again.
• 48:56
  And to me, a film is its ending, but to me, that is right.
• 49:04
  There was.
• 49:05
  When half the movie, like in Oppenheimer, there.
• 49:10
  There's a clear a division of.
• 49:13
  Of before the bomb and after the bomb.
• 49:17
  And here was before the war is over and after the war is over and then the two.
• 49:25
  Like the.
• 49:27
  The two kind of lessons that the.
• 49:30
  That the protagonist was trying to learn.
• 49:32
  And I just thought it was so freaking effective.
• 49:35
  I.
• 49:36
  Yeah, it was.
• 49:37
  And I love that you use the word restraint because it's also.
• 49:42
  How do you say, Tom Holland's character?
• 49:45
  Telemachulus.
• 49:45
  Telemachus.
• 49:47
  Telemachus.
• 49:47
  I always.
• 49:48
  Yeah, I always get those two.
• 49:49
  Telemachus, his restraint.
• 49:52
  Because the second the dog dies, I.
• 49:54
  Can see it in his eyes.
• 49:56
  That's his dad.
• 49:57
  But he wasn't going to blow the COVID because he had just spent that time with Jon Bernthal.
• 50:01
  And he said, you know, if you do see your dad, tell him come in the back door.
• 50:04
  Don't come in like Agamemnon, because that doesn't work out.
• 50:08
  I just like.
• 50:10
  Yeah, it was so beautiful, that restraint.
• 50:13
  It's the perfect word and played so well on both of their faces.
• 50:16
  Perfect.
• 50:18
  And the first thing that I thought of when I was experiencing that scene, it's.
• 50:23
  This is the lesson that they were trying to teach with.
• 50:29
  With Luke Skywalker.
• 50:31
  That's kind of what I was thinking with.
• 50:34
  With the grumpy.
• 50:35
  Old Luke Skywalker.
• 50:37
  I think they were trying to.
• 50:39
  In their own way, they were trying to teach that.
• 50:42
  That a restraint, you know.
• 50:45
  Yeah.
• 50:45
  Which is a strong suit.
• 50:48
  Right, right.
• 50:49
  It's about comparison because again, like, I just love the.
• 50:52
  Especially the non linear storytelling which no one is famous for.
• 50:56
  And of course that Homer is.
• 50:57
  And like, it worked so well here to really show the complexity of Odysseus from, you know, like, again, not this like, oh, perfect hero.
• 51:08
  There was.
• 51:08
  There was the image that Telemachus had of his father because he never knew him.
• 51:14
  And then there is, like, the man himself and all his flaws and all his strengths and the way he wrestles with that.
• 51:21
  And I love what it does at the.
• 51:23
  I mean, that.
• 51:23
  That speech he gives to Penelope at the end was so powerful because he's saying, you know, no, I'm.
• 51:30
  I can never really condone what I did.
• 51:34
  And I know, like, we, you know, committed basically genocide in the name of, you know, like, you know, our kingdom, whatnot, our own glory.
• 51:45
  I can never, you know, let go of that.
• 51:48
  But I have to move on at some point and, like, recognize that, you know, how flat I am.
• 51:52
  I mean, that's a really just watered down version of what he actually says.
• 51:56
  But.
• 51:56
  But he said, oh, that scene is just going to stick with me for so long.
• 52:00
  And I love that they don't overshadow on that and they linger on that image of the Trojan horse and not as like a symbol of victory, but as a symbol of like, oh, we gave up souls here, like
• 52:13
  betrayal.
• 52:14
  He was the one that brought the death of an age.
• 52:18
  And there's some weight to that.
• 52:20
  There's a way to that.
• 52:21
  That how as a human, do you process that?
• 52:26
  Yeah, sure, this is a fictional character, but.
• 52:29
  Yeah, that's heavy.
• 52:31
  That's heavy.
• 52:32
  And that's what.
• 52:33
  And this is like a kind of a Nolan thing.
• 52:35
  It's what every woman in the film is trying to get him to realize all along his journey is to, like, actually come to face that and admit it.
• 52:45
  And then he does admit it at the end.
• 52:47
  Right?
• 52:48
  Yeah.
• 52:49
  Every woman is pointing to truth.
• 52:51
  Charlize Theron is clearly doing it.
• 52:54
  Yes.
• 52:55
  Whoa.
• 52:57
  And that was it makes it even more fitting.
• 53:00
  Yeah.
• 53:01
  Mic drop right there.
• 53:04
  But it does fit.
• 53:04
  Like, that's perfect.
• 53:06
  Why Zendaya's Athena was the only God goddess actually depicted.
• 53:12
  And like.
• 53:12
  And the way she was tied in perfectly there.
• 53:14
  Yeah.
• 53:15
  Mm.
• 53:16
  Like, very few words, but just this lingering presence, a reminder of what he did and destroyed all that was sacred.
• 53:24
  And she does it in human form and not as a, you know, this is what you did, but, you know, like bits and pieces that brings him to it himself.
• 53:33
  Yeah.
• 53:33
  Yep.
• 53:34
  Yeah.
• 53:34
  So good.
• 53:35
  I know we're just gushing over this, but this is like, we need another podcast to really dissect all the, like, myriad of themes in this movie because, I mean, yeah, I know it's like there's so much to unpack,
• 53:46
  but needless to say, we loved it.
• 53:49
  Yeah.
• 53:49
  Can I give my one critique?
• 53:51
  Yes, absolutely.
• 53:52
  Not at all.
• 53:53
  And it's.
• 53:54
  I mean, I probably have more than one, but this is the, the biggest is I went to Greece three years ago.
• 53:59
  It was.
• 53:59
  I had the time of my life.
• 54:01
  Loved it.
• 54:01
  I have some friends that are Greek and so we spent about three weeks there.
• 54:05
  And the Aegean Sea and the Ionian Sea are a color of blue that I didn't know existed until I went there.
• 54:14
  The contrast of the sand and the sea and the buildings, even the super ancient churches that were built by like the very first Christians are so gorgeous and so colorful.
• 54:25
  And I felt that Christopher Nolan took all of that and turned it into the dark night.
• 54:32
  The cinematography was beautiful, but that's not Greece.
• 54:35
  Like, Greece is so vibrant and beautiful.
• 54:38
  And I'm sure it was 3,000 years ago too.
• 54:40
  And that I didn't love that.
• 54:42
  I'm sure that's an IMAX problem.
• 54:45
  Yes, but no, hey, my one critique is they left out.
• 54:50
  They.
• 54:51
  They left out the classic pun from the cyclops scene.
• 54:54
  Yes.
• 54:54
  Yeah, which I, I quoted that line all the time when I did the play.
• 54:58
  But for those of you who don't know, when, after Odysseus, like, blinds the cyclops and cyclops asks who he is, he answers, nobody.
• 55:10
  So that when the other cyclops come to Polyphemus and they ask, like, who did this to you?
• 55:14
  He says, nobody.
• 55:15
  Nobody.
• 55:16
  And like, and it's a brilliant pun there, they left out.
• 55:19
  I still loved what they did with the cyclops, this portrayal of this sympathetic creature, not just a vicious monster.
• 55:26
  But.
• 55:27
  And Nolan talked specifically about how he was influenced by.
• 55:29
  By Guillermo del Toro in that regard and how he portrayed him and worked with Bill Irwin, the actor.
• 55:35
  So I loved all that.
• 55:36
  But the pun is pretty classic.
• 55:38
  I do wish they had included that.
• 55:41
  But.
• 55:41
  Yeah, but still, I mean, one critique that I had, and it's not a critique of the narrative or it's kind of a critique about the, the marketing and, and it started.
• 55:55
  And I blame, with, and, and I blame the, The Force Awakens for this, but they said, oh, there's a.
• 56:03
  There's, there's, there's zero special effects in this.
• 56:06
  And I hate when they say that because that is, that is erasing the work of a whole industry of people.
• 56:14
  Yes.
• 56:15
  And I just hate that we've gotten to a point where that, that's the case.
• 56:20
  And it's like, that's.
• 56:21
  We.
• 56:22
  You cannot make a modern day film without at least a thousand scenes of cgi.
• 56:29
  Sure, you can go film in the sea and you can film with a giant puppet, but that needs to be replaced with probably CGI and stuff.
• 56:38
  It's.
• 56:38
  Yeah, I just don't like that.
• 56:40
  I don't like that.
• 56:41
  That's fair.
• 56:42
  That's a no.
• 56:43
  That's.
• 56:43
  I mean, I know Christopher Nolan is super gung ho about shooting on film one, this case on IMAX and like making everything practical.
• 56:50
  But that said, like, I think CG and AI are two very different things.
• 56:55
  Like, I know that's a whole other conversation, but no, CG is why it's like, come on.
• 57:02
  It's led to some of the best movies ever in the last 20 years.
• 57:07
  So it, it should be respect.
• 57:09
  It can be overused and like a lot.
• 57:11
  There's actually a video recently about like, why is like CG like look bad in a lot of movies today?
• 57:19
  Yeah.
• 57:19
  That was actually on Breakdowns.
• 57:20
  Blockbuster.
• 57:21
  So that's worth checking out.
• 57:24
  Yeah.
• 57:25
  Yeah.
• 57:25
  But.
• 57:26
  But nonetheless, I agree.
• 57:27
  Writing it off as like this whole it.
• 57:29
  Yeah, I have a problem with that too.
• 57:31
  So I agree.
• 57:32
  But cool.
• 57:33
  All in all.
• 57:34
  Well, I know we're wrapping up here.
• 57:36
  We'll definitely be discussing Odyssey more because there's way too much discuss real quick before we go.
• 57:41
  Anyone want to have a quick recommendation?
• 57:44
  Either you can, you know, say Odyssey or something else.
• 57:48
  I'll shout out really quick.
• 57:49
  In light of doomsday, read Books of Doom.
• 57:52
  That was the Ed Brubaker comic I mentioned earlier.
• 57:55
  That's a.
• 57:56
  The best Dr.
• 57:57
  Doom origin book out there.
• 58:00
  Jill, do you have any.
• 58:01
  You want to shout out?
• 58:03
  I'm definitely gonna check that out.
• 58:06
  Yeah, our.
• 58:07
  Let's keep the John Bernthal love going.
• 58:09
  And this is a little bit late, but Gary, which was a one off episode.
• 58:13
  Episode.
• 58:13
  That's right.
• 58:14
  Spin off from the bear.
• 58:16
  I think that's some of his best work.
• 58:18
  So I suggest that.
• 58:20
  Excellent.
• 58:21
  Evan, what about you?
• 58:22
  I would say go watch the Wishbone episode of this.
• 58:26
  You know, that's a fun.
• 58:28
  Yes, fun nostalgic trip if you grew up with it.
• 58:33
  I love it.
• 58:34
  Well, Joe, Evan, this has been fantastic.
• 58:38
  I know we can keep going on and on, but we got to be nice to Joshua, who is our wonderful editor, producer, and leader of the show.
• 58:46
  So we're gonna bow out.
• 58:47
  But we will be discussing all this in more detail.
• 58:50
  There's plenty more to discuss on Doomsday Odyssey, so stick around.
• 58:54
  Thank you all for joining us.
• 58:55
  And remember, we are all a chosen people.
• 58:58
  A kingdom of priests.
• 58:59
  Take care by.
• 59:04
  Sam.