Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / When Male Fertility Factors Matter: One Couple's Path Through Loss to Parenthood

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When Male Fertility Factors Matter: One Couple's Path Through Loss to Parenthood · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:04
  Liz Walton: Welcome to the home of fertility, a space for real conversations and expert insights about fertility, healing and creating family.
• 0:14
  Liz Walton: I'm Liz Walton.
• 0:17
  Helen Zee: And I'm Helen Z.
• 0:18
  Helen Zee: We are two mums who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey emotionally, physically and spiritually.
• 0:28
  Liz Walton: We talk about it all fertility treatments, holistic support, relationships, mindset and the emotional highs and lows.
• 0:38
  Helen Zee: Because sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body or in a breakthrough that's finally made for you we are so glad you are here.
• 0:52
  Liz Walton: Let's dive in.
• 1:03
  Helen Zee: Welcome to a very special episode today, which is close to my heart, because I'm going to get to share one of my past clients, natasha, who is now a doting and loving mother to Onyx.
• 1:16
  Helen Zee: A wife, and in the journey that we have spent together on the path to parenthood, there was an opening and a treasure cove of wisdom that was gained, and it happened from conscious conception to healthy lifestyle choices, to IVF, multiple losses, male fertility factor, a marriage in amongst it all, and then a natural pregnancy to this beautiful child, onyx, that has united them as a family.
• 1:48
  Helen Zee: I look forward to exploring this.
• 1:52
  Helen Zee: There are a lot of gems to extract through all the different iterations of how this precious child was conceived.
• 2:04
  Helen Zee: And let's dive in Amazing Welcome.
• 2:14
  Natasha: How are you feeling, my friend?
• 2:15
  Natasha: I know we can hear Ronix in the background.
• 2:16
  Natasha: Yes, thank you.
• 2:16
  Natasha: Thank you for having me.
• 2:17
  Natasha: I'm good, I'm good, very well, very well.
• 2:18
  Natasha: Yeah, postpartum has been great and, yeah, moving into this, this next stage of motherhood has been even more beautiful than I anticipated it to be.
• 2:29
  Helen Zee: I remember one of the first things, like we were seeing each other for a little while and if I'm going to go into a little bit of a backstory, because our listeners will want to uh, get to know, know part of what we spoke about, from where you started to where you ended up now, yeah, and I remember saying to you through the journey that once your child is in your arms, it's going to feel like a distant memory, because the bridge that is created from the despair, the longing, the loss of what you're not experiencing but also what you know your future self wants to experience it can feel like a really big gap, like a really big chasm, feel like a really big gap, like a really big chasm.
• 3:29
  Helen Zee: And then, for many people, I know that when that unity and that union happens and you've got your child in your arms and you're doing all the things that you wanted to do, even before this child was conceived, even before you felt him moving in your belly, you knew that you wanted to have these moments of sharing a father's day, or reading a book, or getting a footprint on a card to celebrate your birthday, like these are all the things that we long for.
• 4:03
  Natasha: Eventually this gap is bridged, agree, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, even though you probably didn't believe me at the time there was always a little bit of faith, but I definitely had to lean on you a lot to maintain that through the journey.
• 4:24
  Helen Zee: We'll talk about that.
• 4:25
  Helen Zee: I remember coming up with what we call roadside assistance, where, yeah, being on tap and being available for you and for you both, because this is the unwavering support to lean into, because when we feel like hope is dwindling and the flame is, you know, just dancing in the wind, we need someone else to be able to lend that shoulder, lend the hand to go.
• 5:03
  Helen Zee: I've got you, we're going to go.
• 5:04
  Helen Zee: I've got you, we're going to go through this next phase and this next iteration.
• 5:08
  Natasha: Yes, yeah, absolutely yeah.
• 5:11
  Helen Zee: Well, I got to meet you after I met your now husband.
• 5:16
  Helen Zee: Yes, that is correct.
• 5:19
  Helen Zee: Yes, so this was a story of your hubby, Ryan, finding out about me through someone else, and I'd written the book Consciously Conceive your Baby.
• 5:30
  Helen Zee: It's like this is what I want to do and I'm going to buy a present for my partner and I'm like whoa.
• 5:39
  Helen Zee: So he contacts me saying this is what I want to do, and I'm like, wow, this is amazing, like this essence of conscious conception.
• 5:47
  Helen Zee: I mean, I know what all the spectrum of the definition means to me.
• 5:53
  Helen Zee: What does conscious conception mean for you, natasha?
• 5:59
  Natasha: yeah, yeah.
• 5:59
  Natasha: So I guess I guess what kind of led us to that and led us to even getting an understanding of what conscious conception was I had.
• 6:13
  Natasha: Prior to meeting my husband, I had frozen some eggs because I had reached 33, I wasn't in a relationship and I thought, let me just pop some aside as an insurance policy type of thing.
• 6:28
  Natasha: But at the time there wasn't too much thinking or feeling that was going into it.
• 6:35
  Natasha: It was just kind of going through the motions of what was involved in that process.
• 6:40
  Natasha: And then when I did meet Ryan, we, we decided that we wanted to try um.
• 6:47
  Natasha: We wanted to try naturally first and without um, utilizing those eggs, and see how we went um.
• 6:54
  Natasha: And we again we're just kind of going through those motions, you know, just doing the ovulation tracking and then having this kind of routine, scheduled intimacy rather than it, you know, having any kind of emotion behind it which then starts to take a toll on the relationship, right, like it was taking months for us to be able to conceive, we weren't getting a positive pregnancy test and it started to impact the relationship a little bit there as well.
• 7:27
  Natasha: You know, he felt like he was under pressure to perform and I was starting to feel like, oh, don't you desire me and you know all of these things that start to come with that.
• 7:37
  Natasha: And then we started having some conversations around it and just how kind of scheduled the whole process was and we were losing that essence of the intimacy between us and we were losing the essence of the fact that we were trying to create new life.
• 7:54
  Natasha: You know, it wasn't a job that we were just trying to tap in and tap out of at the start of each day or I guess during those key dates during the month, at the start of each day or I guess during those key dates during the month, and with both of us we'd we were both quite spiritual but had sort of lost that in this process because we were just trying to go through those motions.
• 8:16
  Natasha: And when we started having these conversations, ryan had heard about you, as you mentioned, and he'd had a read of your book as well, which was amazing.
• 8:26
  Natasha: And I guess for us it was about just really moving away from just trying to hit those ovulation dates and just trying to get a positive pregnancy test and instead really trying to connect in our relationship again and really trying to create new life from that love and that that relationship that we have, um, and making sure that that continued to be the the cornerstone of what we were trying to achieve beautiful, beautiful.
• 9:00
  Helen Zee: I loved meeting you both when you first came in and I remember opening the door and go wow, this is.
• 9:08
  Helen Zee: This is the couple that is wanting to spark their relationship and wanting to create life out of the love that the two of you have for one another.
• 9:19
  Helen Zee: And I know, because I see it regularly, what happens with the relationship and the intimacy, with delayed fertility and losing trust in your body, and also when we take on the journey through assisted reproductive technology and medical intervention.
• 9:40
  Helen Zee: The matter is you actually don't need to have sex anymore to be able to have a baby, so it's not uncommon to hear women say taking sex off the table.
• 9:53
  Helen Zee: Both of us meant that the pressure is taken off.
• 9:57
  Helen Zee: Yes, and this is what happens for some people.
• 10:00
  Helen Zee: But I also know that when I met the two of you and started following the relationship dynamic and also the relationship that you had prior to this point, it's medicine?
• 10:13
  Helen Zee: yes, yes, it is medicine.
• 10:15
  Helen Zee: It is a really, really big, nurturing part of your lives, and so to deprive yourself of that it's, you're going into starvation, yes, yes, and you are.
• 10:26
  Helen Zee: You're feeling like you're running on an empty cylinder, and I know the other thing that we got to explore is, if this continues on this path, then what is the clawback?
• 10:39
  Helen Zee: How much effort is it going to take to come back and re-establish what was lost and what you had beforehand?
• 10:49
  Helen Zee: Yes, exactly yeah, and I know that the two of you did this.
• 10:53
  Helen Zee: So, even though you went through your journey and the timeframe that it took to hold your beautiful baby in your arms, this postpartum phase that you're in now, because onyx, from memory, is seven months old now he's nine months, so you've just gone through that nine months, the nine month cycle of earth side, as well as him, you know, occupying this beautiful environment of your body.
• 11:28
  Helen Zee: Yes, actually, yeah, there's a beautiful little milestone there as well, and I see you together as a family and the absolute spark in that loving kindness and the support that you all have for one another.
• 11:47
  Helen Zee: Your child is thriving and you are thriving Like seeing you here today on a video screen, and I know some people will be listening, but it is just an essence of I was made for this and I finally walked into my future right.
• 12:06
  Natasha: Yes, yes, yes, correct, yeah, and I do remember you mentioning, you know, during um some of our sessions today as a couple, prior to us conceiving um, the importance of the relationship cylinder, um, and I feel like that really helped to it.
• 12:24
  Natasha: It kind of provided that um imagery for us around.
• 12:27
  Natasha: You know, us creating this, this sacred, safe and loving space around us as a couple.
• 12:33
  Natasha: Because I mean, as you mentioned, postpartum, you know we've still been able to maintain that and I'm not sure we would have if we didn't do that work earlier on, because postpartum is wild and hormone changes is wild and it's you know, it's difficult, you're sleep deprived, all of this stuff, and if you don't have that relationship, that strong relationship cylinder, prior to moving into it, I can see how things can become quite difficult.
• 13:00
  Natasha: Yeah.
• 13:05
  Helen Zee: Let's speak to the journey, with your journey to parenthood, from conscious conception to holding a baby in your arm, was over two years.
• 13:18
  Helen Zee: Yes, correct, yeah, yeah.
• 13:19
  Helen Zee: And in that, the iteration of if I can sort of stamp the name, sort of stamp the main, it's the natural conception.
• 13:38
  Helen Zee: Yeah, I do an in-depth look at eating habits, sleeping habits, um, low tox, yeah, a lot of the lifestyle factors for both of you and you were studying Ayurveda at the time, so it was.
• 13:51
  Helen Zee: You couldn't fault anything that you weren't doing or were doing.
• 14:00
  Helen Zee: I know how frustrating that can get, because just tell me what I need to eat or what I need to do, and if I do it, it needs to happen, right, yeah, yeah, and the frustration of that and I'll preface the conversation where I would like what I would like us to explore and that is the part that was missing was male fertility factor.
• 14:24
  Helen Zee: It was that part of the equation and it was so interesting because ryan was the one that reached out to me.
• 14:33
  Helen Zee: He's, yes, that bought the book, yeah, one that brought you along for the ride, but it took quite a while for one your professionals to recognize, as well as ryan himself, to be able to go okay, we're going to shift the focus now.
• 14:51
  Natasha: Yeah.
• 14:53
  Helen Zee: Yeah absolutely.
• 14:54
  Helen Zee: Talk to us about that, yeah.
• 14:59
  Natasha: So, as you mentioned, you know, we were doing all the right things.
• 15:02
  Natasha: We had a couple of failed rounds of IVF and we were getting our embryos tested.
• 15:12
  Natasha: They were coming through as apparently genetically normal and well graded, all of these things, but when we were putting those embryos in it just wasn't sticking and we later on went to have a miscarriage at eight weeks along, but that was from a natural conception.
• 15:34
  Natasha: So it kind of made me think that, you know, it seems like some bits and bobs are working, but something is just not allowing us to kind of carry on that pregnancy there.
• 15:48
  Natasha: And we asked a lot of questions.
• 15:51
  Natasha: You know, we went through a few different obstetricians and it just felt like the focus was very much so focused on me as the female, which I understand, but there was very little investigations into Ryan's health and even from my end the investigations were really kind of your general checks, nothing too in-depth, and I kind of had to research myself and lean on yourself as well to find out what else there could be that we should be checking here.
• 16:31
  Natasha: Because unfortunately, it did kind of feel like we were just kind of going through cycle after cycle with IVF as well, without, yeah, really seeing what was happening there and I think I particularly, really desperately wanted some kind of answer around.
• 16:50
  Natasha: Well, why isn't this working?
• 16:52
  Natasha: You know, and as you mentioned earlier, you do start to lose trust in your body and I guess, as we kind of had those conversations you know, particularly the conversations that I had with you were a real eye-opener to well, maybe there's this piece that's missing that the doctors are just not paying much interest to, and at the time the OB was only kind of keen at looking at just the quantity of sperm and whether it was relatively mobile.
• 17:26
  Natasha: But that was really it.
• 17:29
  Natasha: And we'd had some conversations that there was the importance at looking at dna fragmentation, um, with sperm.
• 17:35
  Natasha: Um, you know, and even though we were both on an array of supplements at the time and that wasn't something that that we had investigated, and we were told, oh, you know, don't, don worry about it, it's not a big deal, you know, even if you do get the results, there's maybe just some lifestyle changes you can make, but that's about it.
• 17:57
  Natasha: You know, let's just keep putting Natasha through more and more amounts of hormones and IVF.
• 18:02
  Natasha: But eventually we did continue to advocate for ourselves and getting that DNA fragmentation test done and we found that there was, you know, quite a percentage of sperm that did have that DNA fragmentation which could very well have been contributing to those miscarriages happening there and the placenta health as well.
• 18:26
  Natasha: So once we found that out, we were able to.
• 18:31
  Natasha: You know, ryan really took it on board quite seriously and he was, you know, heavy on the supplements again and was really trying to make some lifestyle changes in terms of exercise as well, meditation, all of that type of thing.
• 18:44
  Natasha: And we made the decision not to try again until we repeated that test to check that his levels were looking good.
• 18:55
  Natasha: And, yeah, we definitely saw an improvement there.
• 19:00
  Helen Zee: Amazing.
• 19:00
  Helen Zee: I thank you so much, one, not for going through it, because I know that it's very, very difficult, but the fact that you did go through it, because I know that it's very, very difficult, but the fact that you did go through it.
• 19:17
  Helen Zee: You are a treasure cove and a wise woman as well as a wise woman as well to share your story, and in your story, someone else might just find a pathway forward for themselves that they didn't realise story someone else might just find a pathway forward for them, and this is the important of having these conversations absolutely, the person listening to this today oh, my goodness, this is the bit that I'm now going to start to advocate for myself myself as well.
• 19:46
  Helen Zee: Yes, yeah, and I know, yeah, we know, that it made a difference in yeah, because here we are, you've got this beautiful, healthy, healthy baby that, um, you're now raising as a family.
• 20:00
  Helen Zee: Uh, you mentioned a couple of times about loss and losses.
• 20:08
  Helen Zee: Uh, through the journey holding you and and supporting you and both of you through that is is tender, it's, it's close to my heart because it is a lot of my people people were clients, not clients, not patients, people that I work with as well, and I do remember that part of it.
• 20:36
  Helen Zee: That advocacy as well was ask your fertility specialist for progesterone, yes, yes, to get tested and advocate for yourself as well.
• 20:52
  Helen Zee: Many times and I haven't heard it from people for a while I know that it has been spoken and it's one of my big, big, big fears when a fertility professional looking around and say to a person and a patient oh, you've only had two or three miscarriages, you don't need to worry about yet.
• 21:18
  Helen Zee: Yeah, or you're an irregular cycle, you don't need to worry yet, yeah.
• 21:26
  Helen Zee: Or you have a long period for six months, you don't need to worry yet.
• 21:28
  Helen Zee: Or you have a long period for six months, you don't need to worry yet, yeah.
• 21:32
  Helen Zee: This is the stuff that really gets gets me, because our body is always signaling what is happening internally, yeah.
• 21:42
  Helen Zee: So and I remember saying this to you is that every organ of our body has a cleansing mechanism.
• 21:51
  Helen Zee: So our digestive system cleanses itself through chewing and weeing.
• 21:57
  Helen Zee: Yes, our liver detoxifies during the night.
• 22:01
  Helen Zee: Our kidneys, of course.
• 22:03
  Helen Zee: That is our urine.
• 22:06
  Helen Zee: When our lungs are congested, we will sneeze, we will have mucus coming out of our nose, we'll cough.
• 22:15
  Helen Zee: That's our lungs trying to expel.
• 22:17
  Helen Zee: The same thing with our uterus.
• 22:19
  Helen Zee: Our uterus is a self-cleansing organ.
• 22:22
  Helen Zee: So when that cycle is out of balance, there are all these other areas of the body that are getting out of balance as well, including especially with ovulation and implantation, because it wasn't ovulation so much that was affecting it, wasn't you getting pregnant so much that was the problem.
• 22:47
  Helen Zee: It was holding the pregnancy longer, right, yes, correct, yeah, the problem it was holding the pregnancy longer, right?
• 22:51
  Helen Zee: Yes, correct, yeah, yeah, and you know they say that the longer the pregnancy, as you go through a number of weeks and then you miscarry, there's more and more research now that says that can be predominantly as a result of male health.
• 23:11
  Helen Zee: Yes, the is the male health in female health.
• 23:19
  Helen Zee: So that research is coming out now as well.
• 23:21
  Helen Zee: Yeah, um, how has the journey changed over time through your emotional, mental and even the physical challenges that you faced along the way?
• 23:39
  Natasha: Yeah, um, from from a physical, uh standpoint, um, I think I think from kind of going through the multiple IVF rounds and then having a you know we had four miscarriages along the way.
• 23:58
  Natasha: One was through IVF, the other three were oral, natural conception it does start to take a toll, you know, and you do, as I mentioned, you do start to feel like you don't trust your body and you know it's not doing what it should be.
• 24:12
  Natasha: And I guess because we were struggling to get a clear-cut answer as to why that made it difficult as well, because it wasn't kind of a hard, you know well, there's some X, y and Z wrong, so you can't continue, so we'd have to look down a different avenue.
• 24:31
  Natasha: It was very, very open-ended, um, and emotionally that that started to become quite hard for us as well, you know, and we really had to lean on each other.
• 24:41
  Natasha: We would have moments where I would feel like I was ready to give up, or ryan would feel like he was ready to give up, or Ryan would feel like he was ready to give up, and we'd have to kind of wrap our arms around um the other to to say you know, I understand how you're feeling at the moment, but I do believe this is going to work out and I can, I can clearly see um what that future is going to to look like and I think, think, maintaining that that was really, really important for us, I'd say as well, you know, sometimes we'd find it quite hard to talk to family or friends about the losses that we were having, because it starts to become you start to feel like you're repeating the same thing and it kind of feels like you're ripping a bandage off the wound, but again just having someone like yourself that we could reach out to and have candid conversations with.
• 25:35
  Natasha: You know when you needed to get angry for me because the OB wasn't doing the right thing for you.
• 25:41
  Helen Zee: I got angry for you.
• 25:43
  Helen Zee: I got really angry for you.
• 25:47
  Natasha: Sometimes you really need that, you know.
• 25:48
  Natasha: You know, can't all just be nice soft, fluffy stuff and then I'll tell you what happens there.
• 25:52
  Helen Zee: My friend and sorry to interrupt you were saying about, you know, when you were giving, ryan was there extending his hand out to to take you along.
• 26:04
  Helen Zee: You know that consciously.
• 26:06
  Helen Zee: Hey, babe, I know what's going on here.
• 26:09
  Helen Zee: Hold my hand, okay for us.
• 26:11
  Helen Zee: Yeah, when he was becoming despondent, you were doing that as well.
• 26:15
  Helen Zee: Yeah, what happens through the absolute stress of delayed fertility and also putting your body through a whole heap of medical intervention, yeah, the nervous system is.
• 26:29
  Helen Zee: It literally goes into a disassociation, and I know that we spoke about this, yeah, yeah.
• 26:35
  Helen Zee: So what happens there where you can't access your emotions, it's because your system is in overload.
• 26:44
  Helen Zee: Yes, yes, it is protecting you.
• 26:46
  Helen Zee: It is doing exactly what it is meant to do and that is protecting you.
• 26:51
  Helen Zee: Yeah, yeah, when you can also hear someone else advocating for you and going no, effing way, not what.
• 27:00
  Helen Zee: Yeah, yeah, not happening.
• 27:03
  Helen Zee: And I remember this one conversation was because I offer roadside assistance to all my, all the people that I work with.
• 27:13
  Helen Zee: So you've got me on whatsapp if, if we're overseas or what have you or I can stop my car on the side of the road and have a conversation because you dealt with live.
• 27:25
  Helen Zee: You don't want to wait another month and go, oh, in hindsight, what happened back then, because your body is always keeping the score, yes, always overloading with all these things that weren't said, that weren't processed or weren't fully integrated.
• 27:43
  Helen Zee: Yeah, and so you sharing here is bringing up a really important point.
• 27:49
  Helen Zee: So between you and ryan, you had each other's hand, and then, where you couldn't access your anger, yeah, it was emotionally exhausted.
• 27:59
  Helen Zee: Yes.
• 27:59
  Helen Zee: Then when you can hear someone else advocating for you, you're like, oh, oh, wow, yeah, they're on it, yeah, they're expressing what I can't, but I know that that's what I need to be expressing as well, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah absolutely.
• 28:18
  Helen Zee: That then becomes emotional regulation.
• 28:20
  Natasha: Yes, yeah, yeah, and we really needed that.
• 28:23
  Natasha: You know, I think the whole IVF or the whole conception journey, when it is a bit difficult, you know, has that very rollercoaster effect, and there were times where I'd really kind of buckle down as well and just be like all right, cool, well, this hasn't worked or this just happened.
• 28:41
  Natasha: Let me look up research papers, let me join Facebook groups, let me look at Reddit and see what other people have been doing, experiencing treatments that they've tried, additional tests and investigations that they've done and I feel like, you know, at times that would anger me as well, because I'd kind of be like, well, shouldn't my OB be doing this, you know?
• 29:04
  Natasha: And that would kind of encourage me as well to be like, okay, well, maybe this isn't the right obstetrician for me, let me venture out and see who else I can find that is a better fit.
• 29:14
  Natasha: But we really had to kind of go through all of those motions of being there for each other, finding the right team of people to support us through the journey as well, and, I guess, just really feeling confident that that team of people are looking at the bigger picture and thinking outside the box around what else we could be doing um, so that I could start to relax and move out of that kind of freeze state um state and just start kind of looking after myself and focusing just on what I should have been focusing on, you know, instead of becoming a professor.
• 29:58
  Helen Zee: Exactly, becoming a professor and making sure that we've got to squirrel all the information and fire it off like a fire hydrant and say it in such a way that you're confident that someone is going to really take you seriously.
• 30:11
  Helen Zee: Yes, exactly, absolutely, absolutely.
• 30:15
  Helen Zee: In.
• 30:16
  Helen Zee: And amongst all of this, my friend, you two, also decided to get married.
• 30:21
  Helen Zee: Yes, so this was even before you conceived.
• 30:25
  Helen Zee: Yes, and so I would love to tap in on that, because having a relationship and backing yourself when fertility and you know, delayed fertility is taking you by the short furlies, yes, and you're really feeling like, what kind of future do we have together?
• 30:47
  Helen Zee: What if we don't have a baby together?
• 30:50
  Helen Zee: Even people that are in a relationship, the longevity of their relationship and here it is the two of you making a commitment to yourselves to get married in, and amongst not knowing whether you were going to have children or not.
• 31:06
  Helen Zee: Yeah, please, can you give us an insight into that?
• 31:09
  Helen Zee: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 31:12
  Natasha: I think that comes back down to again that value of that relationship container.
• 31:18
  Natasha: You know us just really kind of making sure that we've got each other's backs, that we're going to continue supporting each other and that this relationship kind of comes first and foremost.
• 31:31
  Natasha: That's the only way we're going to get the baby anyway.
• 31:35
  Natasha: So making sure that we were really focusing in on that and we were really kind of big on although this was hard at times, we still were really kind of big on continuing to live our lives through the fertility journey.
• 31:53
  Natasha: You know it can be really easy to get bogged down and just kind of be like, well, I'm not going to do this, or I'm not going to go on holiday, or I'm not going to pursue this job, or I'm not going to take this next step until I get pregnant or until I have a baby.
• 32:07
  Natasha: And we were kind of doing a little bit of that at the start and we kind of thought, well, we don't know how long we might have to put our lives on hold for if that's what we're doing, you know.
• 32:16
  Natasha: So we wanted to make sure we were still living, so to speak, and we'd have to really encourage each other to keep doing so Ryan and I had been in each other's lives for about 14 years prior to this and, yeah, we decided to book a trip to Vegas and we got hitched over there, which was great.
• 32:39
  Natasha: So we just really wanted to, you know, wherever we could just continue to have fun and just keep that alive, and I think that was another really big part of the conscious conception experience for us.
• 32:53
  Natasha: You know that we were really making a conscious effort to be happy and to fill our bodies with happiness wherever we could.
• 33:03
  Natasha: So, yeah, it was a very cool experience for sure.
• 33:11
  Helen Zee: Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 33:12
  Helen Zee: I feel that that is a a very important, uh piece of wisdom to to our listeners, because I know that, even when we have had the conversations over that time time and you spoke about the relationship container and you know the relationship cylinder, which I know that I advocate and I talk about that is that if you stop putting the effort, the cylinder, that relationship container, is a third entity, it has got a character of its own.
• 33:52
  Helen Zee: You come into that relationship as Natasha.
• 33:56
  Helen Zee: You are you before the relationship with Ryan.
• 34:00
  Helen Zee: You are you before the relationship even with your child.
• 34:03
  Helen Zee: Yes, child, yes.
• 34:14
  Helen Zee: So so what you both deposit into that container feeds you and nourishes you for a long time to come.
• 34:16
  Helen Zee: Yeah, if you come from a place of deprivation, because you are being deprived of not being able to get pregnant right now, or you don't have the income, or you don't have, um, the friendship circle, or you don't have the friendship circle, or you don't have the career right now and you're coming from a place of deprivation.
• 34:34
  Helen Zee: So I'm going back slowly, life gets you more of a pullback.
• 34:41
  Helen Zee: Yes, yes, exactly right.
• 34:43
  Helen Zee: When you can both deposit in that relationship container, you can both drink from that.
• 34:50
  Helen Zee: Well, yeah, you can nourish, you can quench your thirst, and with beautiful, loving memories, this is what keeps the spark alive.
• 34:59
  Helen Zee: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 35:00
  Helen Zee: To having a big hiatus.
• 35:03
  Helen Zee: Yes, yes, date stamp of yeah, 2021, 24, where you know, you know your relationship is shut down, your relationship is in lockdown, your relationship is is in confined borders, right, and it's difficult then that what you recall is that hiatus as opposed to recalling what you have done for each other.
• 35:32
  Helen Zee: Yes, exactly right.
• 35:34
  Helen Zee: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
• 35:37
  Helen Zee: Well, I can hear you in the background.
• 35:45
  Helen Zee: I'm just absolutely delightful, natasha, it's been an absolute joy to speak with you, reminisce with you over the last couple of years that, yeah, we've been up close and personal.
• 36:04
  Helen Zee: You know things that come to mind just before we finish off.
• 36:08
  Helen Zee: Is that level of support, also that, even when you were pregnant, to have those regular meditation dropping the two of us or the three of us, right, yeah, having that anchor point, and I know that you asked me whether I can have even a phone call before going to bed at work with everyone and his baby in your body for longevity, to see him or her through on the other side, and even just the relationships that we have with our support network are there for the long haul.
• 36:52
  Helen Zee: They're the beautiful ones and I remember just making time on those Mondays and going yeah, this is the time at 8 o'clock, this beautiful anchoring that you're still connected to your soul baby, the soul baby that is growing, the beautiful character that you're getting connected to your soul baby, the soul baby that is growing the, the, the beautiful character that you're getting to feel from inside out and be anchored to your soul baby creation.
• 37:18
  Helen Zee: Yeah, anxiety stays at bay.
• 37:21
  Natasha: Yes, yes, exactly yeah, and it kind of, you know, took it, took me from that conscious conception into conscious pregnancy, you know, because originally when I did find out that I was pregnant again, it was difficult.
• 37:37
  Natasha: You know, when you kind of go through losses, it can kind of rob you from that excitement or happiness where you're kind of like, yeah, okay, let me start thinking about all the things and planning all the things.
• 37:47
  Natasha: So I was finding it hard to, I guess, feel that way and a bit scared to be connected to the pregnancy, so to speak, but to be able to have those weekly calls with you, as you mentioned.
• 38:02
  Natasha: You know they were quite late in the evening because it was sort of in the evening where I would feel the most anxious before going to sleep, and that would just really help me stay connected, stay grounded, maintain that faith, and you know I mean that that in itself, just kind of alleviating that anxiety, helps immensely with being pregnancy held.
• 38:25
  Helen Zee: So, yeah, it made a huge difference and definitely pulled me through that first trimester, that's for sure and now you're in conscious parenting, yeah, thriving, absolutely glowing and thriving, and I'm just thrilled to the core that you're getting to experience this essence of life that you knew was possible for you and your family.
• 38:54
  Helen Zee: Thank you, okay, my friend, I feel.
• 38:57
  Helen Zee: If there's anything else you wish to share, please do so.
• 39:03
  Natasha: If not, yeah, I guess the main thing I would say, you know, is, yes, it absolutely can be very tough this journey.
• 39:11
  Natasha: It can feel very lonely and I guess you know, make sure that you're creating that relationship capsule with your partner.
• 39:20
  Natasha: Make sure that you're looking after yourself, that you don't stop doing that throughout the process.
• 39:27
  Natasha: Advocate for yourself, you know, do the research.
• 39:31
  Natasha: That you don't stop doing that throughout the process.
• 39:33
  Natasha: Advocate for yourself, you know, do the research.
• 39:34
  Natasha: And make sure you know, like I mentioned, that you've got a solid team around you.
• 39:37
  Natasha: I remember I think you mentioned the team you know that I had around me, including yourself.
• 39:42
  Natasha: You're like the earth angels, you know, just kind of really making sure that I felt really well supported and it made a huge difference.
• 39:52
  Natasha: So make sure that that you're comfortable with that.
• 39:53
  Helen Zee: Um, yeah, thank you, blessings and so much grace to Ryan and and Onyx and your beautiful family that you are relishing in.
• 40:07
  Helen Zee: Thank you, thank you so much for having me.
• 40:09
  Helen Zee: You are welcome.
• 40:11
  Helen Zee: You're welcome.
• 40:12
  Helen Zee: Thanks for joining us at the home of fertility.
• 40:20
  Helen Zee: We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort and connection.
• 40:27
  Liz Walton: If this podcast resonated, please share it, leave a review or subscribe.
• 40:32
  Liz Walton: This helps us support more people that are on this path.
• 40:36
  Helen Zee: And if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook.
• 40:42
  Helen Zee: At Australian Fertility Summit.
• 40:45
  Liz Walton: Remember, the missing piece might be waiting in a story, your body's wisdom or something new just made for you.
• 40:54
  Liz Walton: Take care and we'll see you next time.