Latest / Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD / Ask Emily: Your Personal Questions on Marriage

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Ask Emily: Your Personal Questions on Marriage · Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us for a special episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: parent Data Podcast. A few weeks ago, I asked on
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Instagram if you guys had any questions that were not
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: about parenting but about me, and I feel a little
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: awkward asking that, but you did have some really interesting
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: questions and so.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: We're going to try to answer some of them.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And I have asked Alex, who works with me, to
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: ask the questions so you don't just hear me answering
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: them and we'll.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: See how it goes. So thanks for hanging out with
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: me and doing this. Alex, glad to be here. Let's
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Let's do this, Okay. So we're going to start with
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: a warm up, some shorter, easier questions. Maybe the first
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: question is what's your zodiac sign?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't. I think it's Aquarius. I'm not really
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: into this. I'm always going to confuse with my birthstone,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: which is amethyst, but I'm gonna I think it's Aquarius.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: The second question is how far is a typical morning run?
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: It varies.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I would say on a sort of normal aerobic run day,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: like a five to six miles. Sometimes I do a
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: little bit of a longer workout and then usually once
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: on the weekends, I do a longer run, like depending
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: on what kind of thing I'm training for or something like,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you know, ten to thirteen miles.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: What would you do with a day all to yourself?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: You know, we've occasionally had those, like if my kids
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: are gone, like with their grandparents, And the answer.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Is basically exactly the same thing that I do.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, I would like get up and eat breakfast at
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: exactly the same time, and then go to work at
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: the same time and eat dinner at the same time.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I maybe if they were gone more, I would adapt
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: to my day, but I think basically I would just
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: do the same day that I have already.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: That's so boring.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: What's your favorite item from Trader Joe's.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, my favorite item from Trader Joe's.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: There are these little chocolate covered bond bonds which are
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: like cookie on the bottom and then there's ice cream
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: and then they're covered in chocolate. It's like a tie
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: between between that and these like individual apple pie things,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: which in graduate school I used to eat so many
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: of and then I had to stop because it was
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: just got out of control.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: But those are just absolutely delicious.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: Okay, what's your go to mindless TV show.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I love the Great British Baking Show.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: And then maybe one of the one of the Real Housewives.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: What's your favorite vacation destination with kids and without?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: So probably it's the same. So we go visit our
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: friends in France. Pretty we try to go every year
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: if we can, and that is my sort of favorite
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: go to place because it's very relaxing and I know
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: it and I think my goal on vacation these days
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: is just to sleep awesome.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: All right, last warm up question, what's your skincare routine?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: So I use Sea to Fill fashwash from the drug store,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and I use cet to Phille with SBA fifteen moisturizer
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: on my face and that's it. And I own very
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: occasionally wear makeup, but not very often.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: It's kind of boring, but it works amazing. It's not
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: that amazing. I would say, it's kind of like like,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: is there a secret.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know, there's no, I don't know if it's
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: a good if it's a good routine or not a
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: good routine.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: It's very easy. So that's it for warm up questions.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Like you said, people sent in a lot of different questions.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: I kind of categorize them into different things like marriage
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: and career, and I think for today we're going to
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: focus on one or two of those.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I'm ready.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: We're going to start with your marriage. So first of all,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: just who are you married to.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: My husband's name is Jesse Shapiro. He is an economist
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: who works at Harvard.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, how did you and Jesse meet? So?
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Jesse and I met in college, so we had a
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: lot of mutual friends, and so we had sort of
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: heard of each other, and we also both worked as
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: research assistants for the same economist. And so one day
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I was having dinner with that economist his name is
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Chris at Adam's house, which is like a it was
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: like a dorm, and that turned out to be the
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: dorm that Jesse lived in. And so when we were
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: we were like waiting for someone else to join us
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: for dinner. Jesse came along and he because he knew Chris,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: he said, oh, like hi, and Chris said, oh, this
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: is Emily. Do you want to, like, you know, do
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: you want to join us for dinner? And so he did,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: and so we had dinner together, and because.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: We sort of knew who each other were, we like
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: We kind of had had some stuff in common anyway,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: so I don't really remember what happened at that dinner.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: But then the next day we were both taking exams.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: So I was taking an exam in a class called
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Images of Alexander the Great, which was a class that
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I had to take to fulfill some like requirement in
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: the Litton Arts see core curriculum. And so it was
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: like a class where you looked at images of Alexander
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: the Great, and Jesse was taking like graduate he was saying,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: like a graduate macroeconomics class anyway, So we both had
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: exams at the same time, and then somebody came into
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: my exam room and said that they had a bomb.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: They did not turn out to have a bomb, but
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: it was like actually quite scary, and we all sort
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: of like ran away, and then they evacuated all the
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: other buildings. So I ended up outside with like no
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: jacket or gloves or anything because I had like run
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: away from this, you know, fake bomb. And Jesse was
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: outside and he had all this stuff because he had
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: been like sort of evacuated in a more casual manner,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and so he we ran into each other and we
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: started talking, and then he loaned me his gloves, which
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: was very nice. And then I stupidly gave his gloves back,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: which got rid of the most obvious excuse to see
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: him again.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: But then when I got back to my dorm room,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: I wrote to him and said thank you for the gloves,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: and then we went out.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: And that was.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Twenty two years ago, and that was kind of it.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Do your kids know that story with the bolam and everything.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I think we've told them that story before. Yeah, I
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: think we've told them that story before. There was a
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: period of time when they were very interested in how
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: we met and how we get married and stuff, and
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: then they kind of like Los Angeles.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: All right, that was my own question, full transparency, all right,
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: back to reader questions. How do you describe your husband
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: and your relationship to your friends?
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, so one thing I will say is most of
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: my friends kind of know my husband pretty well, and
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: so I'm not sure they need my description. I mean,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Jesse is very practical. He's a very practical person. Yeah,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: he's a very practical person. Maybe that's the right word.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: And how do you describe your relationship?
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think our relationship is is very I mean,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I think is very good. We have a very a
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: very nice relationship, and I think it is it is
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: actually sort of well captured by some of the stuff
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: that that I write about. You know, I think we
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: do a pretty good job separating like the kind of
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: business of trying to run our household, the kind of
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: practical nature of that from you know, the fact that
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: we really like each other and like to spend time together.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And and I.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Think that's a balance we've come to over time, is
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: being able to like, you know, like exchange professional emails
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: about logistics while simultaneously like maintaining weekly date nights and like.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Having a nice time together.
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  Speaker 1: And that's and that sort of it's been a hard
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: one over time, but I think it works right now.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: It works really well.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think one thing I will like, one
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  Speaker 1: very specific thing is like often after we have a discussion,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: like we will write somebody will write a follow up
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: email that's like just to rehab the items that we
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: covered in this discussion will be like a little bull
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  Speaker 1: appointed list. I think a lot of people find that
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: to be kind of weird. That really that really works
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: for us.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: I don't find that weird. My husband and I I
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: think fell in love through spreadsheets.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: So.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you need you need two people who
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: like spreadsheets and bulleted lists.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but it's nice.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, how did parenthood change your marriage?
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  Speaker 2: So I think.
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  Speaker 1: Almost anybody finds the beginning of parenting very challenging, you know,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: particularly the beginning of parenting with a first kid, because.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: There's this problem that.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: You have to solve that you have never tried to
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: solve before, like how do we It's a series of problems,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: but it's like the broad problem is like how do
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: we raise this kid? The individual problems are things like
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: why isn't it sleeping? And why doesn't it eat? Uh?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: And what's is it so cranky? And doesn't need a hat?
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Or you know whatever, these small pieces, but it's like
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: something that you both care enormously about and also.
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  Speaker 2: Don't have any idea what you're doing.
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  Speaker 1: And so I think, like everyone, the first year, I
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: sort of remember the first year of my daughter's life
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: having sort of more conflict than usual because we're just
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: trying to figure it out, and like we didn't always
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: you know, we didn't always agree, and there were a
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: lot of things where we were unable to have prepped
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: for or unable to have worked out like how we
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: were going to navigate questions where we were unsure. I
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: think that when the kids got older, when sort of
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: we had a second kid and the first kid got older,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: we kind of worked that stuff out.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: We worked that stuff out better.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, I think our lives now
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: really revolve around being parents, and it is we try
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: very hard to like separate out the relationship from that.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: But you know, ultimately, I think almost everybody who has kids,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: actually perhaps even more so when the kids are like
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: in this kind of school age, there's a lot of logistics,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: and it can be very easy to sort of exclusively
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: do like logistics, and there's a challenge in you know,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: making sure that like you find time to talk about
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: things that are not just literally like who needs to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: purchase which kinds of Christmas presents for different people at
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: the school this week, which you know does occupy quite
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of December I find, But I don't know.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Overall, I would say I would say.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: We are a much stronger team now than we were
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: before kids, that we have a much clearer shared goal,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: a much clearer shared agenda for what we're trying to
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: accomplish and that's that's probably the biggest change.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: Okay, how do you and your husband divide housework?
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I should I should start by caveating and
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: saying that we have a lot of help. Uh So,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: we have a really amazing nanny who does a fair
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: amount of house stuff, and we have people clean.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: We do a lot of outsourcing.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: This is probably part of a longer conversation about like
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: how things work in my house.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: But but.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: There are things, of course that are left, and you know,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: we try to divide them like somewhat evenly. Uh So,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: you know, I cook dinner and he cleans up from dinner.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: He does a lot of things that I.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Do not that I'm incapable of doing.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: So to give you a very specific example, I'm basically
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: afraid of using the phone.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Like I don't like calling people. Like I can do it,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: but I don't.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: It makes me like irrationally, I'm just like a rationally
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: afraid of calling people on the phone. So if my
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: job were like call the people who are supposed to
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: pick up the trash because like sometimes they miss the trash,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I just won't do that. Like I'm just like I
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: just am afraid to like pick up the phone and
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: call people. I don't know, it's like probably there's something
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: in therapy there. Let's like put it aside. So he
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: does basically everything that involves any kind of phone calls
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to anyone, which is actually a fair amount of things.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: And he also manages like all the stuff that has
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: to do with the house. So if you own a house,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: things constantly break, it would seem. And so he does
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: like all that stuff. And then I do like much
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: more of the like manage the you know, buying the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: gifts for the teachers, and making sure that we've like
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: signed up for different things at school, and and sort
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: of doctor's appointments in those kinds of logistics. So I
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: think we've sort of gotten to a place where we
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: try to separate them into things that are like where
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: somebody has a comparative a comparative advantage.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Always doesn't always even out, but I would say, like
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: on the whole, on the whole, it's pretty good. And
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: we have both gotten very much in the in the
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: realm of like when it feels like we are doing
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: more of that stuff than is kind of when we're
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: like overdoing it. To sort of stop and say like, well,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: what can we do to make this easier? Is there
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: some way to make this task like less something we
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: need to to do?
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: So? I don't know, it's a balance. There's a lot
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: of stuff to do. So is next question?
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess you could say that you andrew
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: husband are both data experts, right.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: One might say that yeah, I one might say that yeah.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: So the question is what are fights like between husband
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: and wife data experts?
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: I we don't really fight wow now, like we never,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: but we don't fight about data?
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Not quite how to how did this describe this? Like?
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Were? So here's what I would say. There are things
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: where we wonder, like what is the right thing to do?
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Where the question is amenable to data, but we both
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: come into that in the same with the same almost
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: like somewhat dispassionate approach, and so it is not the
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: kind of thing that we would fight about because the
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: answer is just like, okay, well we have to go
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: find out what that you know, what is the evidence
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: about that? So it's not like it takes a lot
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: of the emotional temperature out of something to have this shared.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Way to approach to approach questions.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: So when there are things we argue about, they're just
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: like not things that have anything to do with with data.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: They're like more things about about parenting. Although we don't argue,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: we don't argue in general very much.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: And the last question Jen we got about you and
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: Jesse is what do you like to do on date nights?
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, So, our our date night, which is very regular,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: we try very hard to have date every week, mostly
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: involves going to dinner. I think that we have a
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: very high taste for walking places, eating dinner relatively quickly,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: and then walking home. So that's sort of like the
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: ideal date night is when you get to walk to dinner,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that dinner happens pretty quickly, and then you get to
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: go home and go to sleep relatively early. We are
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: not like people who like to go out and stay
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: out late. But I like a good you know, glass
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: of wine and dinner and a long walk before and after.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: That's kind of my that's like my happy place. So
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: we've gotten to a good, good routine and doing.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: That that sounds wonderful. There are actually some people who
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: live in Providence that were wondering your favorite dinner spot
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: and Providence.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: So we go to we go to Parkside a lot,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: which is like very simple, but the food is good.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: It's like down on Main Street, and I really there's
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: a there's a tap us place called Palo also in
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: in that kind of area, which I also like very much.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of very good food in Providence. I
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: don't think we're as adventurous as as one might be.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, there were so many more questions for you, and
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: I think we're going to leave it here for today
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: and hopefully if people like this, will do it again.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: But let's give a little sneak peek to a future episode.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to ask you probably the number one
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: question the people sent in, which is some version of
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: how do you manage it all?
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: The answer to that question is.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: With periods of panic, not always as easily as it
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: would seem on social media, and that I have a
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: lot of help, and I have a lot of help
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: both in the kind of newsletter stuff that I'm producing,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: some of which is from you, thank you, Alex.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: But also a lot of help at home. We have
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: a really really.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Really good nanny who makes things kind of function function
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: a lot at home, and Jesse, who we spent a
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: lot of this time talking about is also extremely supportive
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: and helpful, and so sometimes I worried that it looks
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: like I'm doing all of these things like pretty much
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: on my own, and that's just really not not true.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: So the answer is just just like a lot of help.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Basically, great, Well, thank you so much for answering all
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: the ease and being so open. I learned some things
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: about you, and I'm sure people are gonna love learning
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: about you.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Do well. Thank you for your help on this, Alex.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I'll talk to you perhaps next time. Thanks for listening.
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  Speaker 2: Talk to you soon.