Latest / I Don't Know You / How Growing Up in Rwanda Shaped Alvin Nsengimana's Ambition, Parenting, and Values

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How Growing Up in Rwanda Shaped Alvin Nsengimana's Ambition, Parenting, and Values · I Don't Know You

0:04
SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm Matt.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm a Jesus follower,
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SPEAKER_02: husband,
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SPEAKER_02: father,
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SPEAKER_02: son,
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SPEAKER_02: and friend who is super curious about topics like parenthood,
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SPEAKER_02: creativity,
0:12
SPEAKER_02: and the tension between ambition and contentment,
0:14
SPEAKER_02: all while living in the distraction of the 21st century.
0:17
These conversations serve as a way for me to hear from people I
0:20
deeply respect on
0:22
SPEAKER_02: topics that I'm still learning about.
0:24
Can you give me 10 seconds of your time to ask if you could
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share,
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follow,
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and review?
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It would be a great help to make these conversations more
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discoverable for
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SPEAKER_02: like-minded creatives.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: My goal is to continue to make these as best as I can and bring relevant
0:39
SPEAKER_02: conversations to you that you'll find interesting.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: It seriously means so much to me.
0:45
Today,
0:45
I'm talking with an old friend of mine,
0:47
Alvin,
0:47
who I went to school with.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: We chat about his upbringing in Rwanda,
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SPEAKER_02: family dynamics and cultural differences,
0:54
SPEAKER_02: gratitude,
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SPEAKER_02: and the impact of history on our cultures.
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We also dive into ambition and leading a quiet life and how the
1:01
two can be at odds often.
1:03
He's wise beyond his years and I love the curiosity he brings
1:06
to our conversations.
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SPEAKER_02: Enjoy.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: DJI was started by this like
1:13
SPEAKER_01: I think he was either a master's student or right out of university.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: And he had, he built a drone for like a science experiment.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: And just like, all right, I'm just going to do this.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Clearly like a genius.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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And just continue building on what he already had and iterative
1:34
process,
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I guess.
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And he just ended up having the best drone,
1:37
commercial drone technology ever,
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dude.
1:40
yeah yeah we have like a little tiny pocket one i think it's
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called the mini or
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something yeah that we took around with us when we were
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traveling yeah and it's
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like i remember one of my buddies had like one of the original
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drones gun uh not
1:55
gun gun had it i'm sure he had yeah he had it i i i wouldn't
2:00
put a fastback
2:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we didn't talk about Gunn at all last time we met.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: I forgot.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: I meant to bring it up because I knew you guys were friends.
2:07
SPEAKER_03: I think that's the reason that we met.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: It's because of him.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: And he literally lives up the street from us.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
2:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: What?
2:16
SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: I know.
2:17
But yeah,
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I remember Gunn got a DJI drone before I even knew what DJI
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was.
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SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: And probably the first drone I ever saw.
2:25
okay was it like the white one with the little arms on the
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bottom it was the mini
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version where it can like fold cool and he'd fold it out and we
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were out of at the
2:34
beach one huntington maybe or newport and he flew it out and i
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think it fell to the
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water all right oh my gosh he lost it i think so or he just
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like it was way too
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SPEAKER_03: close for comfort oh no he might have lost that's no good gun
2:51
SPEAKER_03: That's unlike him.
2:51
SPEAKER_03: He's a very sensible guy most of the time.
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SPEAKER_01: He is.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: I think it was still new.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_03: So he was nervously trying to figure out how it all worked.
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SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was just too close to comfort.
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SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but I remember being stressed.
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SPEAKER_01: I was like, dude, how much does this thing cost?
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Just you two?
3:06
SPEAKER_01: No, it was like a group of friends.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: So he's trying to impress people.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
3:12
SPEAKER_03: We all got to get together sometimes.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: We all got to do that sometimes.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen Gun in ages, but he recently...
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reached out on our like this group chat that we had with a
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couple buddies from
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college it was good to hear from them so yeah well that was
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kind of going to be one
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of my first questions is like how did we get get to like even
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know of each other
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which i think was through guns through gun i don't remember
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remember the first time
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SPEAKER_01: viola i remember
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SPEAKER_01: I don't remember the first time we met, but I know it was connected.
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SPEAKER_01: We were connected through Gunn.
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SPEAKER_01: Probably like saw each other.
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SPEAKER_01: Were you at Gunn's wedding?
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SPEAKER_01: Or the wedding, the thing that happened at his wife's mom's house?
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SPEAKER_01: Yes.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: So we definitely met there because I was there too.
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SPEAKER_03: I remember some of that night.
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SPEAKER_03: I think there was a lot going on that night.
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SPEAKER_01: There was a lot going on.
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SPEAKER_01: And I remember spilling wine on my white shirt.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't even like drinking that much.
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SPEAKER_01: I think there was like a lot of Polaroids from that night.
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SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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SPEAKER_01: We should look through those.
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SPEAKER_01: We should look through those.
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SPEAKER_01: But I remember spilling wine.
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SPEAKER_01: I was like, man, on a white shirt too.
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SPEAKER_03: You know, that's the mark of a good party, you know.
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SPEAKER_01: What can you do?
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SPEAKER_01: I just remember.
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i i can hold my liquor pretty well but i think most people were
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pretty sloshed by
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the end of that oh yeah yeah that's also when i met his sister
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for the first time
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okay she was here yeah that was like so we literally came back
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from our europe trip
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like for one week and that's the week that they got married
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really and we shot
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their wedding and that's when i met i think i had met his
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sister like maybe once
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before okay but i i want to say it was at their wedding and
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then yeah i don't
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remember her coming to the states before yeah and then they did
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like the party or
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SPEAKER_03: whatever later um
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which was a ton of fun that was so sick yeah super sick it was
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such a strange
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because it was like gun I think introduced me to a lot of
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people that weren't
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originally from the US okay and so oh yeah cuz he gun and I met
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through global
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orientation yeah so gun most of the friends that I well not
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most a lot of the
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SPEAKER_01: friends that I had at Biola
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And a lot of the friends that I currently still have from Biola
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were from,
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SPEAKER_01: they call it Global Orientation Week or something like that.
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SPEAKER_01: It's a week before normal orientation.
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SPEAKER_01: Just to get you acclimated or whatever.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you literally like come make bank accounts.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have any of this stuff.
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SPEAKER_01: I wish they did that with me.
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SPEAKER_01: I had to learn all that stuff on my own.
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SPEAKER_01: It was really nice, though.
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They took everyone out,
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make bank accounts,
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meet new people,
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tour the college.
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SPEAKER_01: It was like orientation just for us.
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SPEAKER_01: So Gunn I met through there, a ton of other people.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_03: There was that other guy from Croatia.
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SPEAKER_01: Joe.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: Joe I met through there.
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SPEAKER_03: He was super nice.
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SPEAKER_03: I see him on Instagram all the time.
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SPEAKER_01: He's still here.
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SPEAKER_01: He probably lives pretty close to here.
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SPEAKER_01: He's in Newport.
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SPEAKER_01: Cool.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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SPEAKER_01: I see him pretty regularly too.
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SPEAKER_01: So I met Gunn, Joe, another guy, Marcos, Gilles too.
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SPEAKER_01: A lot of like my friends that I still hang out with.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_03: Well, it's really cool to be able to, I mean, I'm sure you all kind of
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created a different bond because you were there early and
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because it was like hey
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i'm like getting thrown in the deep end of this culture and
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figuring out kind of
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dude i don't know what it is well i have some idea but the
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people that i've truly
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SPEAKER_01: connected with and they're it's not like they're not
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SPEAKER_01: The people that have Truth Connected, we just share a common culture.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: And their culture may be super different from the Rwandan culture, but...
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SPEAKER_01: it's usually like very family oriented.
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SPEAKER_01: It's usually very, um, like they work hard.
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SPEAKER_01: It's a culture that like we, we have to work hard.
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SPEAKER_01: We have to continue pushing forward.
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SPEAKER_01: Um,
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SPEAKER_01: even if that's not what they're living out right now,
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SPEAKER_01: but if the,
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SPEAKER_01: maybe they just might be like,
7:24
SPEAKER_01: they're in a phase of life where they're just partying a lot,
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but I know that's their culture and you can tell like they're
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very respectful to
7:30
SPEAKER_01: older people,
7:31
SPEAKER_01: like their parents or their friends' parents.
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SPEAKER_01: They have reverence for age and wisdom.
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SPEAKER_03: That's not something the US does super well.
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SPEAKER_01: You're skipping ahead for all my other questions.
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SPEAKER_01: But this is great.
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SPEAKER_01: When I meet someone like that,
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it's just like a mutual understanding and then we know we can
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build a friendship
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SPEAKER_01: off that.
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SPEAKER_01: And some Americans have them.
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Some of my closest friends from Biola,
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we just continued becoming friends because
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i love the way they were raised their parents had really good
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values and they
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instilled them in their kids and then yeah like i knew you were
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going to be a good
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parent i knew you were going to be a good friend just from the
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culture that i see
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that you have well the feeling is mutual i think that's like
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part of why i was so
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SPEAKER_03: excited to like reconnect and talk with you more was to
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SPEAKER_03: like get more of that sense of because i don't know i'm i'm always like
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overthinking my own experience and it helps a lot to like
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ground myself in my own
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experience by like hearing about other people's experience yeah
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yeah um and
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SPEAKER_01: What made you want to hear about other people's experiences, though?
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SPEAKER_01: Because you do have... You like to travel.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: And it's like you do like talking to people from different backgrounds.
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of different things.
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I think one of them was just the...
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That's the way that I'm wired as a person.
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SPEAKER_03: My mom is, like, the best host ever.
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SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
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She loves hosting,
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like,
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parties and loves basically,
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like,
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making people feel comfortable.
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SPEAKER_03: That's so cool.
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SPEAKER_03: And, like...
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That I think is something that she's passed on to me,
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which I've been very grateful for.
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SPEAKER_03: And then I think like on my dad's side, like he's a really good listener.
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My mom is also a very good listener,
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but she's really good at talking too.
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SPEAKER_03: She talks a lot.
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SPEAKER_03: And so I feel like my dad, I see more of the listener in him.
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SPEAKER_03: And I'm always just so curious about,
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SPEAKER_03: I feel like I just have a fascination with like deconstructing things and
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SPEAKER_03: understanding how people and things work.
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SPEAKER_03: And you are an only child.
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SPEAKER_03: No, I have two older brothers.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you have two older brothers.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, sorry.
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SPEAKER_01: Your wife was an only child.
9:54
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah.
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SPEAKER_03: And I think that's part of it too, is just like the fact that I really...
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SPEAKER_03: I don't know, I always wanted to be like my older brothers.
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SPEAKER_03: And so I was constantly observing them and trying to understand like,
10:07
SPEAKER_03: okay,
10:09
SPEAKER_03: their friends think that's cool.
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SPEAKER_03: Oh, they don't think that's cool.
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And I had really chill older brothers,
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my oldest brother more chill than my middle brother.
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was more of like a bookworm and intellectual and wanted to be
10:23
by himself most of the time.
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SPEAKER_03: But I'm super grateful that my oldest brother,
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SPEAKER_03: Andrew,
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SPEAKER_03: he allowed me to like hang out with him and his friends.
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SPEAKER_03: And I feel like a lot of times,
10:34
SPEAKER_03: maybe this is the case for you and your family and siblings,
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was like the older siblings wouldn't let the younger siblings
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hang out with them.
10:42
maybe that wasn't the case for you we how how what's the age
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difference between
10:47
he's six years older than me so quite a bit because you're
10:50
there there's one older
10:51
than you and then you're the second oldest yes i'm the second
10:54
oldest so my older
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sister marlene she's not that much older than me she's like a
10:58
year and a couple
10:59
SPEAKER_01: months older than me okay um so once we once we move back from
11:06
SPEAKER_01: Ethiopia to Rwanda.
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SPEAKER_01: We went to such a small school that her friends,
11:13
SPEAKER_01: it was so small that we have to have the same friend groups.
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SPEAKER_01: So her friends were my friends.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: My friends were her friends.
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SPEAKER_01: Like it was just a small.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: So there wasn't too much of that.
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Even though outside of school,
11:24
she did have like her own friends and I had mine.
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SPEAKER_01: But I think a six-year age difference is big.
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SPEAKER_01: Like that's my little sister, Shahlan.
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SPEAKER_01: My little brother were like two years apart.
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SPEAKER_01: His friends were my friends.
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SPEAKER_01: Small school.
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SPEAKER_01: It wasn't that crazy, especially more so now.
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SPEAKER_03: I think that's like doubly unique too.
11:43
SPEAKER_03: And super cool that like that's like part of the...
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what i'm so curious about where like it seems like so much of
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your culture is like
11:52
family oriented where just because of how you grew up like that
11:58
was had to be the
11:59
case like you had to share friends yeah yeah especially at a
12:03
small school the last
12:04
school that we went to was really small but also a lot of my
12:07
friends were like they
12:09
SPEAKER_01: were really good
12:11
SPEAKER_01: I like friends that can integrate into a family.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
12:14
So like one of my closest friends,
12:16
probably my close friend,
12:17
his name's Malik.
12:18
He,
12:19
like my older sister,
12:21
little brother,
12:21
little sister,
12:23
would consider themselves a friend.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: To him.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: I'd consider myself a friend to his brothers.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Kind of like you.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're almost like second family.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: And that's really cool.
12:33
And then even my close friends here right now,
12:37
I've gone to know their families.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: It's nice when a friend...
12:41
can know your family and you can know theirs yeah i think
12:44
that's the best um it's
12:46
not always possible especially if you're like your friend is
12:50
super far or your
12:51
family's busy or yeah whatever yeah but when it works out that
12:54
way i think it's the
12:55
SPEAKER_01: best totally best way to go yeah and i i don't know
12:59
SPEAKER_01: I have a baby on the way.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: I think I want to be, I want to know my son's friends.
13:06
Like I want them to,
13:08
yeah,
13:08
I want them to talk to us and to be,
13:11
we don't have to be friends.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm your, totally, but I want to know you.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: Well, I think that's like really important.
13:18
SPEAKER_03: Like I, I always think about,
13:21
um can i have a culture with my family to be like the place
13:27
that kids want to hang
13:29
out at um like oh we always want to go over to like uh our
13:34
daughter's like i don't
13:36
know their friend's house yeah that's our house or whatever
13:38
yeah where where they
13:40
SPEAKER_03: can hang out and have fun yeah and and be like a welcoming
13:44
SPEAKER_03: kind of like, yeah, come hang out, do whatever, obviously within reason.
13:48
SPEAKER_03: Of course.
13:50
SPEAKER_03: Like I'd much rather that be the case than like,
13:52
SPEAKER_03: oh,
13:52
SPEAKER_03: we're going to always like go somewhere else.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:54
SPEAKER_03: Because then it's like, oh, then I can see what you're up to.
13:56
SPEAKER_03: And also like I can participate.
13:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: And I think like being around kids like helps you stay young.
14:03
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Maybe not.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: No, I think it is kind of like they say.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, you want your church to have young kids, older kids, young adults.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Parents.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: A range.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: A huge range.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: I think that's necessary.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to be just a church.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Even if you're so lucky to have a family like that,
14:23
SPEAKER_01: where you have grandparents,
14:26
SPEAKER_01: parents,
14:27
SPEAKER_01: kids,
14:28
SPEAKER_01: grandkids.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's the best way to do it.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: You have so much wisdom, so much experience.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:35
yeah yeah i hope that's that's the way that's the direction
14:39
we're going to in my
14:40
family and i know it's a huge blessing yeah um to us so well
14:44
i'm curious like uh
14:46
well you i was going to ask you about it at some point but i'll
14:50
i'll dive into it
14:51
more now you're you're expecting dude and you're gonna have a
14:55
kid and a boy right
14:57
SPEAKER_03: yeah so an heir to the the family an heir to the
15:01
SPEAKER_00: The throne?
15:05
SPEAKER_03: Like,
15:05
and I'm so curious about like being in two different cultures
15:10
and growing up like
15:12
SPEAKER_03: in one and then coming here and kind of
15:16
living here for a while you've been here for how long here for
15:19
eight years now yeah
15:20
and then like how do you how do you are you thinking at all
15:24
about like influences
15:26
from here that you want to instill in him and like obviously
15:31
the way you grew up
15:32
there's there's probably so many great things about yeah the
15:36
way that you grew up
15:37
because i'm i'm assuming your your family and parents you seem
15:40
very close with them
15:41
SPEAKER_03: and um they sound like awesome people so it's like
15:45
what are you going to kind of instill from your your upbringing
15:50
and then also from
15:51
like being here or how are you thinking about or are you
15:54
thinking about that i'm
15:55
definitely thinking about it especially since baby's on the way
15:59
one of the things i
16:00
actually am interested in doing with this podcast i still don't
16:05
have a name for my
16:06
podcast amazing but still think that's true but one of the that
16:09
will figure itself
16:10
out it'll figure itself out i'm sure but one of the major
16:13
topics i want to
16:15
talk about with people is parenting and how they set up I'm
16:22
more and more so I'm
16:23
seeing parenting has to be done very very intentionally so
16:25
those type of things
16:26
that are talking about family values cultural influences like
16:35
where you spend most
16:36
your time what you spend your time doing the different patterns
16:40
that you have in
16:41
SPEAKER_01: life whether it's like day to day year to year month to month
16:45
SPEAKER_01: They have to be done or they don't have to be done intentionally,
16:48
SPEAKER_01: but I'd rather them be done intentionally.
16:50
Yeah,
16:51
like someone is going to inform and educate your kids,
16:55
and it might as well be you.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's going to happen whether or not you like it.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily want it to just be whatever is popular in the world.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: I want it to be me and my wife.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: With intentional practice.
17:09
SPEAKER_03: You guys are going to crush it.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: And maybe you can tell me how you guys are thinking through that,
17:16
SPEAKER_01: thought through that,
17:17
SPEAKER_01: and are wanting to practice it.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: i'm still kind of trying to figure that out yeah like how do you parent
17:23
intentionally yeah how do you guys do it well i'm your daughter
17:26
again she's uh 18
17:28
months so she's she's still very new and i'm still very new so
17:34
i'm sure the three
17:35
people that listen to no there's more than that in your family
17:38
but the 10 people
17:39
SPEAKER_03: that listen to this podcast collectively um
17:44
i'm sure they'll laugh at whatever response we have about
17:47
parenting because we're
17:49
both new to it um but i feel like the intentional piece of it
17:54
at least what i've
17:55
been learning is like if you want to it almost feels like when
17:59
you are starting to
18:01
SPEAKER_03: date and
18:02
I feel like a lot of people whether it's right or wrong they
18:06
talk about the idea of
18:07
like working on yourself and that like makes you more
18:09
attractive to the opposite
18:13
sex yeah in general like if you if you want to find someone to
18:19
marry or date long
18:21
term like work on yourself like make sure you're eating well
18:24
and you're being in
18:25
SPEAKER_03: curious interesting person like
18:28
SPEAKER_03: Be the person that you would want to.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:30
SPEAKER_03: And I sort of feel like and maybe this is not it's not one to one.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: I feel like it's parallel maybe with parenting.
18:37
But at least what I've found so far and I might change my tune
18:44
eventually.
18:44
But it feels like a lot of that,
18:47
like if I am being the type of person I want to be.
18:51
um like parenting is a really holistic uh thing like everything
18:59
becomes parenting
19:00
once you have a kid yeah um because they just like if you're
19:04
around them which like
19:06
you hope to be as a parent i think that's uh that's like one of
19:10
the challenges i
19:11
SPEAKER_03: think um that i'm so fascinated about like kind of the
19:16
the the upbringing that we talked about the last time we talked
19:19
where like family
19:20
is such a huge part of like life throughout all of life for uh
19:26
for you um and the
19:28
way that you were brought up whereas like in american culture i
19:31
feel like a lot of
19:32
it is just very individualistic and it's like oh well once you
19:35
reach a certain age
19:36
we'll put you in the old folks home but i i feel like if you're
19:40
holistically
19:41
SPEAKER_03: thinking about parenting um because it is just like all of your life
19:47
yeah you you i think you've talked to enough people that you
19:50
probably understand
19:51
that intellectually and then you're gonna realize that
19:54
emotionally on a very
19:56
different level level because she's what she's like 30 weeks
20:00
like you guys are
20:01
getting close right we're getting very close yeah our due date
20:04
today is october
20:05
13th our due date is december 27th so we only have it's coming
20:10
up my dude two
20:11
SPEAKER_01: months yeah yeah yeah um
20:14
but i think like the best answer that i'm still working through
20:19
and wrestling
20:19
through is like uh be the type of like you you're never not on
20:26
as a parent like
20:27
they're always watching you and and be the type of example that
20:31
you want to be and
20:32
i think like another way to put that is intentional parenting
20:36
where it's like if i
20:38
SPEAKER_03: want to
20:39
be a better husband to my wife i have to be intentional about
20:42
like making sure that
20:44
i'm listening to her that we're having great conversation that
20:46
we're going on dates
20:48
uh that i'm like caring about the things that she cares about
20:51
like i don't think
20:52
it's any different with kids where it's like what are the
20:56
things i want to instill
20:57
in them yeah and then like how am i living that out in my own
21:01
life because it's not
21:02
SPEAKER_03: like you're going to be the parent that you want
21:05
SPEAKER_03: Right when you have that kid.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: No.
21:07
SPEAKER_03: That's work that you have been doing your entire life.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: You're right.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: But I do think it's very important...
21:13
SPEAKER_01: Well...
21:15
SPEAKER_01: I was listening to...
21:19
SPEAKER_01: Did they speak about it in...
21:21
SPEAKER_01: I think it's important how you...
21:24
start just like how it's it's kind of hard to change what you
21:30
get used to or it
21:31
just takes more effort and i've seen that i think that's
21:34
evident in all of life um
21:38
even like just a simple example is fitness if you let's say
21:42
throughout school you
21:43
did sports blah blah but now you go to college you're not a
21:46
college athlete
21:48
SPEAKER_01: But you continue,
21:50
SPEAKER_01: let's say running once a week,
21:52
SPEAKER_01: you continue working out,
21:54
SPEAKER_01: you continue working out,
21:56
SPEAKER_01: not even like intensely,
21:57
SPEAKER_01: maybe once a week you work out the other day you run or twice a week,
22:01
SPEAKER_01: whatever.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: It's much easier to maintain than to like, if you just stop everything.
22:08
And then one day when you're like 35,
22:11
you decide,
22:11
Hey,
22:11
I should be in better shape.
22:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: That's going to be a grueling.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:16
SPEAKER_03: Well, and it's like a process.
22:18
It's not like a flip a switch and you're back to whatever you
22:21
were before.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: So how you start and maintain, I think is important.
22:26
So I've been thinking through this,
22:27
like we're about to start being parents.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: And I don't think we have to have everything figured out,
22:34
SPEAKER_01: but I do want to like,
22:38
SPEAKER_01: and I think even like we don't have to have a value statement,
22:43
SPEAKER_01: a mission statement for,
22:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's necessary,
22:45
SPEAKER_01: but we do have to have values.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: We do have to have things we consider important to us.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Even if, I think that's important because it cancels other things out.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Like if we're really, really invested in Rwanda, it's future,
23:03
continuing the development of the nation then we can't be
23:06
spending a lot of money
23:07
like crazy example just giving money to other nations right our
23:12
giving was it will
23:13
shape our giving towards Rwanda right so even stuff like that
23:17
it'll just point you
23:18
to where you want to go as a family and I've been thinking
23:21
through that a lot these
23:22
SPEAKER_01: days
23:24
Specifically with kind of the national pride of...
23:27
That's always been a value of mine.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: Uplifting Rwanda.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's always been a value I've had.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: Like a national pride.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: We have a very, very intense history.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Not far removed.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: And,
23:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
23:41
SPEAKER_01: we were raised in that way of,
23:44
SPEAKER_01: one,
23:44
SPEAKER_01: representing your nation,
23:45
SPEAKER_01: but two,
23:46
SPEAKER_01: being proud of who you are,
23:48
SPEAKER_01: who God made you to be,
23:49
SPEAKER_01: where you're from.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: And then also just seeing Runda's development.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: You have no choice but to want to be a part of that and continue that.
24:01
That's so cool to think about like,
24:04
I don't know,
24:05
I don't feel that in the same way
24:08
with america where it's like and i think that's probably just
24:11
like i'm not the most
24:12
patriotic person in general um it's very hard to be in the u.s
24:16
yeah i think so but
24:18
i i i like i want that on some level so like i think that's
24:24
what you're talking
24:25
SPEAKER_03: about is like how can i be intentional about like
24:29
uh i don't know i look at like america and i'm like oh but i'm
24:32
just like one of 400
24:33
million people or whatever and that's what i mean like america
24:36
is huge yeah yeah
24:38
SPEAKER_01: and i'm saying it's hard to be very
24:42
SPEAKER_01: have super national pride for America,
24:44
SPEAKER_01: not because you shouldn't,
24:46
SPEAKER_01: because there's so much things to be proud of,
24:48
SPEAKER_01: but it's like,
24:50
SPEAKER_01: they're so easy to get,
24:52
SPEAKER_01: which is good,
24:53
SPEAKER_01: that I think they get taken,
24:56
SPEAKER_01: you don't value what you,
24:59
SPEAKER_01: what you don't have to fight for.
25:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
25:02
I think even just the fact that you just said like,
25:04
hey,
25:04
in the recent past,
25:05
like,
25:07
we were struggling to like figure out if were we a country like
25:11
or whatever it is
25:12
yeah and it's like well you i i think like so many people
25:16
including myself have
25:17
lost that perspective of like oh it's just abundance and
25:22
prosperity have always
25:23
been a thing like which is not true it's not totally no um but
25:28
i think like you can
25:29
SPEAKER_03: kind of pull the wool over your eyes and
25:32
uh forget about just the hardship of so many people's lives
25:36
even here but um it's
25:38
very different you forget i think is the second you start
25:42
sliding back to that
25:44
darker history totally totally that's why in ronda we every
25:47
year april 7th starts
25:49
SPEAKER_01: the commemoration of the 1994 genocide against the tutsi
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Every year,
25:54
SPEAKER_01: we're going to remember this terrible history in our lives,
25:59
SPEAKER_01: but so that we never go back to it.
26:02
SPEAKER_03: Well, and that's fascinating that it's like 4th of July here is like
26:08
SPEAKER_03: It's a celebration.
26:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:10
SPEAKER_03: Which is interesting because it was just, like, us being rebels.
26:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:15
SPEAKER_03: Like,
26:16
SPEAKER_03: it was a...
26:17
SPEAKER_03: That's,
26:17
SPEAKER_03: like,
26:18
SPEAKER_03: a really interesting thought is,
26:19
SPEAKER_03: like,
26:20
SPEAKER_03: it's a celebration of our independence.
26:22
SPEAKER_03: But it also is, like, we've lost kind of, like...
26:28
a lot of the yeah maybe the reverence is the right word where
26:31
like yeah this was a
26:33
really dark time for us like we were and it didn't just happen
26:38
like there was human
26:39
effort totally people died and yeah yeah put into this good
26:45
difference that you're
26:45
SPEAKER_01: talking about yeah yeah that's crazy but it's like that's a problem
26:52
SPEAKER_01: I hope Rhonda has one day of like having so many years and generations of
26:58
SPEAKER_01: stability,
26:59
SPEAKER_01: abundance,
27:00
SPEAKER_01: growth,
27:01
that you have to intentionally force yourself to remember that
27:06
life was not always
27:07
SPEAKER_01: like this.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: So you have to be grateful.
27:11
That's like a crazy blessing that you hope you can have a
27:14
problem like that.
27:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's really fascinating.
27:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_03: Huge blessing.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, and you talk about the idea of raising kids and being intentional.
27:22
I think that like starts with you and me a hundred percent
27:26
where it's like,
27:28
SPEAKER_03: how can I instill in our daughter and future kids,
27:32
SPEAKER_03: whatever that looks like.
27:33
SPEAKER_03: And same for you where like,
27:36
SPEAKER_03: how do we instill the idea of like,
27:38
SPEAKER_03: hey,
27:38
SPEAKER_03: this was like a bot with like blood and strife and challenge and like,
27:47
yeah there's definitely nuance and complexity it wasn't just
27:50
like oh these british
27:51
people were bad and so we like there was there's so much i mean
27:56
that's the beauty
27:57
of history i think is like getting into the weeds on that and
27:59
thinking through that
28:00
lots of complexity yeah that's that's fascinating that like i
28:03
don't know it does
28:05
seem to start with like us remembering and like retelling that
28:09
story to our kids
28:10
SPEAKER_03: yep yep that's actually very true
28:12
Yeah,
28:13
because there's some people who would rather...
28:15
I've also seen people who...
28:20
their reaction to living through such traumatic times is to try
28:24
to,
28:24
one,
28:25
never bring it up.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: And two,
28:27
SPEAKER_01: by trying to protect their kids,
28:29
SPEAKER_01: which I think every parent should do,
28:32
trying to protect their kids so much from it that they never
28:34
tell them about it.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Which I also think is... And something's lost in that.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:39
If that's an overcorrection,
28:41
I would say,
28:41
again,
28:42
I've never lived through this.
28:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: But...
28:46
if I had to speak for my limited experience,
28:49
that's,
28:50
you're losing something there.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: And your kid won't have that like,
28:56
SPEAKER_01: if you know that you came from there,
29:00
SPEAKER_01: but your parents got you here,
29:02
and the sacrifice that it took to get from there to here yeah
29:06
then you're much more
29:07
motivated to get to there yeah because you know where what they
29:10
went through well
29:10
and it gives you a sense of like intense gratitude exactly like
29:15
oh my gosh like mom
29:16
and dad look at the sacrifice that you made like the least i
29:20
can do is like do this
29:21
for my kids and and it makes you i was just watching this like
29:26
random instagram
29:27
SPEAKER_01: video
29:29
SPEAKER_01: where there was a reporter talking to our president,
29:33
SPEAKER_01: the president of Rwanda,
29:34
SPEAKER_01: President Paul Kagame,
29:36
SPEAKER_01: and they asked him,
29:37
SPEAKER_01: I forget even the question,
29:38
SPEAKER_01: but his answer was,
29:39
SPEAKER_01: I have a home,
29:40
SPEAKER_01: my family's safe,
29:43
SPEAKER_01: we have a country,
29:44
SPEAKER_01: and the country's safe.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: That's fire.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:49
SPEAKER_03: Like, that's all you need.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: That's, I don't know.
29:52
SPEAKER_03: I always think about,
29:53
SPEAKER_03: like,
29:54
SPEAKER_03: the Gospels where it's like,
29:56
SPEAKER_03: oh,
29:56
SPEAKER_03: like,
29:56
SPEAKER_03: if you have clothes on your back and,
29:58
SPEAKER_03: like,
29:58
SPEAKER_03: food to eat,
29:59
SPEAKER_03: then you have,
30:00
SPEAKER_03: like,
30:01
SPEAKER_03: more than enough.
30:02
SPEAKER_03: That's a good day.
30:03
SPEAKER_03: And it's just,
30:04
SPEAKER_03: it's crazy that we now live in the time where it's just like,
30:08
SPEAKER_03: oh,
30:08
SPEAKER_03: man,
30:09
SPEAKER_03: I'm complaining or I'm comparing or whatever it is.
30:12
And I feel like,
30:13
I mean,
30:13
talk about a value that I want to instill in our kids is,
30:16
like,
30:18
SPEAKER_03: We have so much abundance.
30:20
SPEAKER_03: Like, it's insane.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: My wife's dad,
30:24
SPEAKER_01: his name is Eric Munyemana,
30:26
SPEAKER_01: he always says,
30:27
SPEAKER_01: and I'm sure other people have said it,
30:29
SPEAKER_01: but he says,
30:30
SPEAKER_01: anxiety and gratitude can't exist in the same person at the same time.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Or stress and gratitude or something.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: I think it's those two.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: It's a negative and a positive.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like if you're grateful, you can't be anxious at the same time.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: If you're grateful, you can't really be stressed.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Gratitude.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: I might write that one down.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good value to have as a family.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: And it encompasses all those things.
30:54
Like you have to look at your history and be grateful for where
30:58
you are today.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: You have to look at what you have.
31:01
Like if you have clothes on your back,
31:03
if you have a house,
31:06
roof over your head,
31:09
SPEAKER_01: amazing.
31:11
SPEAKER_03: So you're thinking about parenting.
31:13
SPEAKER_03: That's a topic that you want to talk a lot about.
31:15
SPEAKER_03: That's one of them, yeah.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: What are some of the other topics?
31:21
SPEAKER_01: Dude,
31:21
a huge one and I'm excited to talk to different people about
31:26
this is I want to talk
31:29
SPEAKER_01: to more men and how they view faith in their lives.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we touched on the topic last time we talked but
31:39
SPEAKER_01: A lot of the time when faith is described,
31:44
SPEAKER_01: the way I've seen it in the past,
31:48
SPEAKER_01: it's like letting go and like don't think or that's the way I,
31:54
SPEAKER_01: maybe it's not even described to say,
31:55
SPEAKER_01: but that's the way I receive it.
31:59
don't think or just take the leap of faith yeah to me it's like
32:04
the opposite of
32:04
being diligent and purposeful and these are that's how other
32:09
people are describing
32:10
it that's how i receive it yeah and have historically and these
32:14
are like christian
32:14
values like diligence is a christian value purposeful like know
32:20
what you're doing
32:20
SPEAKER_01: yeah don't be
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
32:22
SPEAKER_01: so I'm really excited to just talk to different church people,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: church leaders,
32:32
SPEAKER_01: whoever I can talk to,
32:33
SPEAKER_01: honestly,
32:34
SPEAKER_01: to see how they viewed,
32:36
SPEAKER_01: hopefully they're a little older too,
32:38
SPEAKER_01: to see how they viewed faith in their lives.
32:41
Maybe just to change my perspective of it or to make my
32:45
perspective of it more full.
32:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: Sweet.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a big one I want to...
32:52
talk to different people about jump into faith what are some of
32:55
the ones you have
32:57
oh what i want from the from doing a podcast and having
33:01
conversations topics that
33:02
you've you think you want to talk about um i think what i'm
33:07
most curious about is
33:08
like understanding other people so i can understand myself more
33:14
um as selfish as
33:17
SPEAKER_03: that sounds dude that's the life goal and i think like
33:21
This is why I feel like you and I are brothers and kindred
33:25
spirits is because like
33:28
SPEAKER_03: I feel like a sense of kinship in the way that you I mean,
33:31
we've only had a handful of conversations and I think you can
33:35
cut through a lot of
33:36
SPEAKER_03: the like kind of niceties and.
33:40
surface level talk and if you get through that and you can kind
33:45
of have chemistry
33:46
and instantly connect like we have I think it's just like it's
33:50
the breeding grounds
33:51
for like a very long friendship and like I'm so curious about
33:56
talking to more
33:57
SPEAKER_03: people like you
33:58
that are willing to dive into deep conversation and not just
34:03
talk about servicey stuff.
34:06
SPEAKER_03: In an effort like,
34:07
SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
34:08
I think me being curious is like one of my strengths and
34:14
leaning into that in a way
34:15
SPEAKER_03: that
34:16
um allows me to learn from like time spent talking to you um
34:21
which like sounds
34:23
selfish hopefully other people find it helpful if you're
34:28
learning something i think
34:29
the other person's also learning maybe maybe i think it's
34:33
mutually just beneficial
34:35
to be in community and talking to people but uh yeah i i mean i
34:39
agree with you i
34:40
SPEAKER_03: think like uh life is best lived in community and so if we can have
34:47
uh kind of communal conversation um i don't know there's not
34:52
it's hard to have a
34:52
conversation with yourself um you can do it i think but it's
34:57
kind of cyclical and
34:58
and circular yeah um but yeah i think that's kind of one of the
35:02
main things i want
35:03
to get out of like having these types of conversations and
35:06
adding a little more
35:07
structure to like my curiosity and like oh i'm really wrestling
35:11
with this idea of
35:13
SPEAKER_03: what does it mean to be like a good dad
35:15
SPEAKER_03: in the context of,
35:16
SPEAKER_03: and this is something I feel like I've wrestled with a lot is like,
35:20
SPEAKER_03: um,
35:20
entrepreneurial ambition and then like living a quiet life and
35:25
like being a great
35:28
SPEAKER_03: husband and father and being present in that.
35:31
Um,
35:31
and a lot of the examples that I see in our world are like,
35:35
you can have one or the other.
35:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:38
SPEAKER_03: Um, which I have to believe you can like have, have it all.
35:41
SPEAKER_03: And maybe that's just me like being, um,
35:45
naive but i think you can have it all um i think there's
35:48
examples of like uh strong
35:50
christian leaders that i know that like meet the goals and and
35:54
exceed the goals
35:55
because of god's goodness in their life to get to where they
35:58
are now or whatever
35:59
but i think a piece of that is like how do i kind of dream big
36:06
and have ambition
36:07
SPEAKER_03: and follow through on that yeah but then also like
36:10
be really present and do like a date night every week and be
36:14
available for our
36:15
SPEAKER_03: daughter and our family and stuff like that.
36:19
SPEAKER_03: And like close friends and be able to kind of drop everything and
36:24
SPEAKER_03: and there's seasons of life.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: I get that where things are busier or less busy,
36:28
SPEAKER_03: but how to kind of have an,
36:31
SPEAKER_03: an even keel in a stormy waters that almost always seem to be stormy.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:36
SPEAKER_03: Like it doesn't ever seem to be super calm.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:38
Life only seems to be speeding up and getting more busy and
36:42
more crazy as I get older.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:45
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
36:47
SPEAKER_03: So I think exploring like that and understanding, um,
36:53
where people's perspectives are and and that's why I find like
36:57
these types of
36:58
conversations so compelling is because like you grew up in like
37:02
probably the
37:03
opposite of so many different things for me yeah um and that's
37:07
like super beautiful
37:08
SPEAKER_03: and awesome and I want to learn from that perspective um
37:13
SPEAKER_03: And I think because of our shared,
37:14
SPEAKER_03: uh,
37:16
SPEAKER_03: faith,
37:17
SPEAKER_03: uh,
37:18
SPEAKER_03: to use,
37:19
SPEAKER_03: to use that word,
37:20
SPEAKER_03: um,
37:21
SPEAKER_03: like we have a lot more in common than,
37:23
SPEAKER_03: uh,
37:25
SPEAKER_03: we have separate.
37:27
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
37:27
SPEAKER_03: Um,
37:28
SPEAKER_03: and I think that's like a piece of what I want to explore too,
37:31
SPEAKER_03: is like,
37:32
SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of people,
37:33
SPEAKER_03: especially in this day and age,
37:34
SPEAKER_03: like there's so much division,
37:36
SPEAKER_03: um,
37:38
But at the end of the day,
37:39
like I think there's a lot more in common with most people than
37:42
not.
37:43
I think more so with us because of the way that we were brought
37:46
up and the value
37:47
systems that we were brought up in and kind of the Bible is our
37:51
foundation and
37:52
SPEAKER_03: stuff like that.
37:53
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I don't know.
37:55
I think like my curiosity mixed with things that I am trying to
38:00
like wrestle
38:01
SPEAKER_03: through and figure out and like how talking
38:05
with someone like you can give me new perspective and uh open
38:11
up different
38:11
questions i didn't even think about asking dude that's really
38:15
good so that's a very
38:16
long-winded answer no i like that two things that you said one
38:20
having a structure
38:21
to your curiosity i really like that a lot that's a good way of
38:27
looking at things
38:28
SPEAKER_01: because
38:31
SPEAKER_01: I would consider myself also a curious person.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you are.
38:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, clearly.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: But I love frameworks.
38:43
i love anything that's like if you have this idea just chuck it
38:46
in here turn it in
38:47
this machine and out comes yeah the it just saves a lot of it's
38:51
too confusing to
38:52
not have those yeah processes and frameworks i think and i just
38:57
realized it would
38:57
be so cool and i think you'll get this through conversations
39:01
that you'll have and
39:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: And maybe we've already gotten it.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: I just haven't thought about it too much.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: But it'd be very cool to have a framework for curiosity.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Just something that you're curious about.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: Because there's so many ideas that hop into my head.
39:18
and they happen to me and just as fast as they come they go
39:21
yeah but i haven't
39:21
captured it i haven't really thought it through yeah i haven't
39:25
i don't know is the
39:25
framework to just put it on a no tap think about it for 30
39:28
minutes later on at
39:29
night yeah is that does that work for you i don't know yeah but
39:32
uh that's a cool
39:33
idea and then the other one that you said of um having it all
39:41
that's a good one man
39:43
SPEAKER_01: yeah that's a good one
39:45
SPEAKER_01: I once read something that said,
39:47
SPEAKER_01: which I actually don't believe anymore,
39:49
SPEAKER_01: or at least I haven't seen it.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: It said you can have it all, just not at the same time.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: Which was interesting to me.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Do you know who said that?
39:59
SPEAKER_01: No clue.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll look it up.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: We'll look it up.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: We'll do a fact check.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: I thought...
40:07
SPEAKER_01: It may be true,
40:08
SPEAKER_01: but I've also yet to meet anyone that's like,
40:13
SPEAKER_01: or anyone our age,
40:14
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
40:16
SPEAKER_01: that's like truly stretched to the limit.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Mostly because social media exists.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: Dude, I'm spending like an hour when I wake up.
40:25
on social like and and then i'm saying i have no time yeah yeah
40:29
clearly i have time
40:30
i've stopped using that excuse yeah um the last probably seven
40:35
months um because i
40:37
SPEAKER_03: feel like
40:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm busier than I've ever been in my entire life,
40:42
but still feel like I have some semblance of control of my
40:47
schedule where,
40:48
SPEAKER_03: like,
40:48
SPEAKER_03: you just have to have control of your schedule when you're a parent.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
40:53
SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, it's just insane.
40:55
SPEAKER_03: Dude, that's so crazy.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: That's like a new thing.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
40:59
SPEAKER_03: I'll learn.
41:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:01
SPEAKER_03: But it must be so intense.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: It is, like, the most...
41:08
uh draining challenging thing that you've ever done and it's
41:12
also like the best
41:13
thing ever at least for i cannot imagine like if you weren't
41:19
anticipating being a
41:20
parent and then you were like hey by the way you're gonna be a
41:22
parent that's crazy
41:23
and then it would just be like oh my gosh but like this is
41:26
something that shelby
41:27
SPEAKER_03: and i really wanted yeah i mean it seems like you and is that is that
41:32
are very excited about we're very excited so it's like dude you
41:36
guys are gonna
41:36
crush it and it's gonna be amazing but it will be so so
41:40
challenging in the best way
41:41
possible yeah did you take time off when your baby was born
41:45
yeah i took i was very
41:47
grateful that i took a month off oh that's dope um yeah which i
41:51
think is like wait
41:53
don't you have six weeks technically um so it's different for
41:58
men and women um
42:00
SPEAKER_03: I know like maternity is that I think legally,
42:03
SPEAKER_03: at least in California,
42:05
SPEAKER_03: I think it has to be like three months.
42:07
SPEAKER_03: Oh, whoa.
42:07
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know that.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that makes sense.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: Three months.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: My job has six weeks and then an optional additional six weeks.
42:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just take as much time as they give you, man.
42:22
SPEAKER_03: Like, even if you lose that money.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: No.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the thing.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: The first six weeks, you're paid.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: The second six weeks, you get 70% of your salary.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: Well, that is the beauty of working for a massive corporation.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
42:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I...
42:38
I think I did...
42:40
I don't remember if I got paid or not for that month,
42:41
but it was...
42:43
Worth it.
42:44
SPEAKER_03: Totally worth it.
42:46
Yeah,
42:46
I have a crazy dream to,
42:49
like,
42:49
take six months off at some point if we have another kid.
42:53
SPEAKER_03: That would be so fun.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's going to happen.
42:58
SPEAKER_03: Why not?
42:59
SPEAKER_03: Because I have to make money.
43:01
SPEAKER_03: That's true, but also that would be so cool.
43:04
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
43:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:05
SPEAKER_03: I think just... I don't know.
43:07
SPEAKER_03: I think it's...
43:09
SPEAKER_03: Just, I don't know, how can you live quietly?
43:12
That's the two sides of the coin I feel like I'm always
43:16
wrestling with is like,
43:17
I just want to run the world and build some epic company and do
43:21
some awesome thing
43:22
SPEAKER_03: that like changes the world.
43:23
SPEAKER_03: And then the other side of me is like,
43:25
SPEAKER_03: actually,
43:25
it would be nice to live on a farm and just like see nobody and
43:29
just write and
43:30
SPEAKER_01: think all day.
43:34
SPEAKER_03: You'd go crazy.
43:35
SPEAKER_03: I would go crazy.
43:37
Maybe if people are coming all the time and we're talking,
43:40
we're having amazing meals together.
43:42
SPEAKER_03: Maybe that, maybe that.
43:43
SPEAKER_03: But yeah,
43:44
SPEAKER_03: so at some point,
43:46
SPEAKER_03: maybe if I strike it rich by kid number three or four or something,
43:52
SPEAKER_03: we can...
43:52
SPEAKER_03: How many kids do you guys want?
43:53
SPEAKER_03: Do you know?
43:55
Well,
43:55
the last time that Shelby and I talked about this,
43:58
she was like,
43:58
I want four.
43:59
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
43:59
SPEAKER_03: And I don't feel like I...
44:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I definitely have a say, but I think
44:06
SPEAKER_03: I think it would be cool to have a big family, and so... It's sick.
44:10
SPEAKER_03: Well, at least... Yeah, because you're one of four, right?
44:13
SPEAKER_01: We have... We have a humongous family.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: We grew up... We're five kids, so I have a very older sister.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
44:25
Then my next older sister,
44:26
then me,
44:26
then...
44:27
But we grew up in a bigger family.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: My cousins were raised with us.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh, amazing.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we have... We have...
44:37
SPEAKER_01: Eric, Apot, Gloria, Aline, Mahlan, me.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: So many like epic names and then it's just like Eric.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, bummer, man.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: Eric is a cool name.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: That's my wife's dad's name.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh...
44:52
SPEAKER_01: You have to say that.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: Hunts and Shahlan.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: So we have nine people that we were raised with.
44:57
And when we were moving around,
44:58
it was just Mahlan,
45:00
me,
45:01
Hunts,
45:01
and Shahlan.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: So just the four.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: But all those people I'd consider family.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: So we did have a very, very big family.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: I just think that's so cool.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: It's dope.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: It's... Showing up somewhere with like a team.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, no, we need a bigger table.
45:16
SPEAKER_03: Well, you have to like learn how to share and stuff.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: I think, I mean, that's something that I always...
45:22
felt like a bummer if if you were hanging out with like only
45:25
children because
45:26
they're just like this is my experience with most only children
45:31
is like they're
45:32
just way more selfish you know wife's an only child that's okay
45:35
she's i it's funny
45:37
SPEAKER_03: because i i was always like
45:39
SPEAKER_03: Because I knew a lot of only children growing up.
45:41
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I'm never going to, like, date or marry an only child.
45:45
SPEAKER_03: And then... Look at God.
45:46
SPEAKER_03: God has a funny sense of humor.
45:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:49
SPEAKER_03: And she's really selfish, but it's okay.
45:51
SPEAKER_03: Oh, my God.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: She just used to have... I guess, yeah, only children.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: There is something about... Like, my wife's...
46:00
isero's family i think they shared a bedroom okay till yeah
46:05
till like it's like you
46:06
i think you just have to you get over yourself yeah in a very
46:11
healthy way yeah and
46:13
you learn to share more and even if you don't want to share you
46:16
have to so it's
46:16
like i think it's just good it builds cooperation it builds
46:20
teamwork i think their
46:21
SPEAKER_01: family like purposefully
46:24
SPEAKER_01: only had one car.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: For the family.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: That sounds hard.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: That is hard.
46:30
And it kind of like fit them because their dad,
46:32
I believe for the most part worked from home.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Or had his own business so he could kind of create his own.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: Did you grow up here?
46:40
SPEAKER_01: No, they grew up for most of their lives in Rwanda.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
46:43
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
46:43
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
46:44
SPEAKER_03: And then he came over here because he was doing stuff.
46:46
SPEAKER_03: Saddleback.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:48
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: But even just the conscious decision to we're only going to have one car.
46:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:54
SPEAKER_01: So that we just talk to each other about our plans.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: Totally, totally.
46:57
We need to know your plan so that we can coordinate the use of
47:00
this one car.
47:00
Shelby and I did that for,
47:02
like,
47:03
she sold her car,
47:05
what,
47:05
in probably,
47:06
like,
47:06
2019.
47:08
SPEAKER_03: And then we just had one car for, like,
47:10
2019 was a good year to sell your car uh actually i guess it
47:14
was after because it
47:15
was after covid because then yeah then her it was like the best
47:20
time ever to sell
47:21
her car yeah i have a friend who i think it was like a 2014
47:26
like chevy or something
47:28
SPEAKER_01: he sold it for the price he bought it yeah in like
47:32
seven six years later my my 2013 prius is still worth as much
47:37
as i paid for it like
47:39
seven years ago that's crazy which is just amazing crazy also
47:42
it's a prius so it
47:43
holds its value forever i don't know that's true i really want
47:47
one of those new
47:48
priuses though they're just so sexy they got a facelift that
47:51
was insane it looks
47:52
like someone broke up with an old prius yeah yeah just like
47:55
they're like you know
47:56
SPEAKER_01: what we need james bond to be able to drive this
48:00
yeah no those look cool um i have i have friends who hate
48:06
priuses yeah well it's
48:07
kind of like a lover hate deal you know especially my friends
48:11
in texas they're like
48:12
oh yeah they're cowboys cowboys are like can you tow anything
48:17
with that can you put
48:18
a piece of beef in there sorry that's a gross generalization it
48:23
is but um but it's
48:25
SPEAKER_03: true
48:26
yeah yeah i don't i think i would not be able to drive my prius
48:29
in texas dude
48:31
there's a there's a spot that's super super proud of their
48:34
country i spent a lot
48:35
because sometimes i spent a lot of time in austin texas these
48:39
are like close i
48:40
appreciate that you called texas a country well they're proud
48:44
of it's kind of a
48:45
SPEAKER_01: country yeah but they're proud of the point they're proud of the u.s um
48:51
SPEAKER_01: But they have so much national pride in a healthy way.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: I guess some in an unhealthy way, but
48:59
Like when I was in Austin,
49:01
it reminded me of Rhonda because like people had national
49:05
pride.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: So they kept their city clean.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: So they wanted to be respectful and welcome and be hospitable.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, look at my city.
49:16
SPEAKER_03: We want you to have a great experience here.
49:18
SPEAKER_03: And so we're going to like make it that for you.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:22
they had that there and i don't know it's it was unique in my
49:26
experience that's why
49:27
i loved all my time in austin and the family i would stay with
49:30
yeah but i still
49:31
have yet to go to texas i i would really like to go there's a
49:34
couple people that i
49:35
know that live out there and it's just it sounds it sounds like
49:39
its own country
49:40
beautiful well yeah it was i didn't even know that but texas
49:43
was its own country it
49:44
was a republic and yeah but uh you should go texas is awesome a
49:49
lot of californians
49:50
SPEAKER_01: are going there yeah um
49:52
but it's nice i think when you have too many people in one
49:55
place so like los
49:57
angeles new york things can get kind of dicey yeah you start to
50:02
value people a
50:05
little less i think where i've seen yeah yeah well i mean
50:10
there's a lot of people
50:11
in both those places in the within the square mileage of like
50:16
la i think there's
50:18
SPEAKER_03: It's a crazy amount of people.
50:20
SPEAKER_03: It's like 3 million people or something.
50:21
SPEAKER_03: That's insane.
50:22
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what it is.
50:23
SPEAKER_03: That's another thing for the fact check.
50:25
SPEAKER_03: That's insane.
50:27
SPEAKER_03: Dang.
50:27
SPEAKER_03: Well,
50:28
I think it's pretty epic that you want to spend time hearing
50:33
from other people and
50:34
SPEAKER_03: learning about,
50:35
SPEAKER_03: like,
50:36
SPEAKER_03: parenthood and getting into,
50:38
SPEAKER_03: like,
50:39
SPEAKER_03: family systems and values and working through that.
50:42
SPEAKER_03: I'm excited, man.
50:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:44
SPEAKER_03: I want to be a good dad.
50:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:46
SPEAKER_03: Well, you...
50:48
SPEAKER_03: You are already a good dad.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, man.
50:51
I think because of the intentionality that you live your life
50:54
with and the type of
50:56
SPEAKER_03: person and man and husband that you are,
51:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you will be an awesome dad.
51:03
SPEAKER_03: Do you guys have a name picked out?
51:05
SPEAKER_01: Ganji.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: It's N-G-A-N-J-I.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: Ganji.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: It means like overcomer.
51:15
might dang it sounds like he's destined for greatness he'll be
51:21
great uh do do
51:26
rwandans do middle names i mean i have a middle name okay all
51:30
my siblings have a
51:30
middle name we haven't chosen one yet and at this point like
51:34
the first name came
51:35
like once we both heard ganji we were like that's a dope name
51:38
yeah let's go with
51:39
SPEAKER_01: that how did you hear about it um
51:42
i think my wife had a dream whoa okay so doubly doubly blessed
51:48
with destiny i think
51:49
my wife had a dream and that wasn't one of the names okay um
51:53
wow and i just really
51:54
liked the name once i heard it but and then you looked it up
51:58
after the fact and it
51:59
meant this thing yeah yeah we looked it up after the fact then
52:02
it meant all these
52:03
SPEAKER_01: things really great things wow incredible but uh
52:09
SPEAKER_01: We haven't come up with a middle name yet.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: And at this point, I don't think we're going to.
52:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: Epic.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't mind just having two names.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:15
SPEAKER_01: Dude.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: Do you guys have middle names?
52:18
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
52:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:19
What's your...
52:20
My middle name is my mom's maiden name,
52:23
which isn't super normal,
52:26
I don't think.
52:27
SPEAKER_03: So my name is Matthew Wilkins Heisler.
52:29
SPEAKER_03: Matthew Wilkins is her maiden name?
52:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:32
SPEAKER_03: Her maiden name is Wilkins.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's interesting.
52:34
SPEAKER_03: So Carol Wilkins.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
52:36
SPEAKER_03: And then when she got married...
52:38
um then she like hyphenated her middle name in her middle name
52:42
so it's like carol
52:44
beth wilkins heisler okay um so yeah she she she has a lot of
52:50
family pride um which
52:52
is awesome i think that's a piece of kind of the amalgamation
52:56
that is me uh is
52:58
SPEAKER_03: because of kind of the pride that she had for
53:01
SPEAKER_03: Growing up and being a part of her family and being close with them.
53:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:05
SPEAKER_03: And then what's your daughter's?
53:06
SPEAKER_03: Her name is Verena Jane.
53:09
SPEAKER_03: Jane is her little name?
53:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:10
SPEAKER_03: So basically just the girl version of John.
53:14
SPEAKER_03: which means God is gracious.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:18
SPEAKER_01: And Verena is from the city in Italy.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: Or is it a town or a city?
53:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a, I mean, it's a town, I guess.
53:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
53:25
SPEAKER_03: there's not many people that live there,
53:26
SPEAKER_03: but it's more of the,
53:28
SPEAKER_03: one of the local spots around.
53:30
SPEAKER_03: Dude, one day I'm going to go there.
53:32
SPEAKER_03: Dude, we'll have to go there together.
53:34
SPEAKER_03: That would be sick.
53:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: But I'm going to send you a picture if you're not there.
53:37
SPEAKER_03: Well, okay.
53:38
SPEAKER_03: That's fine too.
53:39
SPEAKER_03: I'll be jealous.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: Because I've only ever heard it from you.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: Like I've never heard of it.
53:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:44
SPEAKER_03: Well,
53:44
SPEAKER_03: we,
53:45
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
53:45
we went there 2022 and we were there for like a week and we
53:51
just thought it looked
53:52
SPEAKER_03: really cool and turned out it was really,
53:54
SPEAKER_03: really awesome.
53:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:56
I think like the,
53:57
it felt like the local kind of place that we wanted to be and,
54:02
and,
54:03
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
54:03
It's different than a big city like Florence or Rome or
54:08
something where you can get
54:09
SPEAKER_03: lost in it a bit more.
54:11
SPEAKER_03: It's quieter.
54:13
SPEAKER_03: And it's a nice reminder of that place.
54:16
SPEAKER_03: And then there's a lot of meaning behind that name for...
54:19
kind of my family and my heritage as like a swiss person nice
54:23
so yes it's a swiss
54:24
background yeah yeah the name is kind of has its origin in an
54:29
old switzerland okay
54:31
um and then yeah it's kind of the root of the name is veritas
54:35
which is truth so we
54:37
SPEAKER_03: want her to be someone that's filled with truth and grace nice um
54:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so.
54:43
SPEAKER_03: That's dope.
54:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
54:44
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
54:45
SPEAKER_03: Names are, I think names are pretty important.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: They are very important.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: It's cool that he has a name that was given to his mother in a dream.
54:53
SPEAKER_01: Dude, she has, I'm pretty sure,
54:56
SPEAKER_01: all of our kids' names.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: She's told me some,
54:59
SPEAKER_01: it's not like a deal breaker,
55:01
SPEAKER_01: don't get me wrong,
55:01
SPEAKER_01: because I've rejected some names.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: Whoa.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I mean.
55:04
Yeah,
55:04
but like you're rejecting the name that like came to her in a
55:08
dream?
55:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if the one I rejected came to her in a dream,
55:11
SPEAKER_01: but I don't think it's a deal breaker,
55:14
SPEAKER_01: nor does she,
55:15
SPEAKER_01: because I think we both have to like our child's name.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:19
But it's pretty cool that she has,
55:22
yeah,
55:22
she's got these names in her dream.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:24
SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
55:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm just happy I liked it.
55:26
SPEAKER_03: Well,
55:26
SPEAKER_03: an overcomer,
55:27
SPEAKER_03: I feel like that's such a...
55:29
At least from the way you and I have talked about in our last
55:32
conversation about
55:33
SPEAKER_03: wanting to go back home and...
55:37
be like an entrepreneur in that space and um grow and develop
55:43
and and push like the
55:45
country forward in that way like i feel like that's there's
55:49
like some destiny there
55:50
or something we'll see which is uh maybe maybe like don't live
55:54
vicariously through
55:55
him but we'll see the whole having everything is it timothy in
56:01
the bible who
56:04
SPEAKER_01: There was this verse to like the goal is to be like live a quiet life.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: There's a verse like that.
56:17
SPEAKER_01: And that's definitely something I've wrestled with too.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: So even for my child.
56:25
SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong.
56:25
SPEAKER_01: I want my kids,
56:27
SPEAKER_01: my family,
56:28
SPEAKER_01: my siblings,
56:28
SPEAKER_01: my wife,
56:29
SPEAKER_01: me,
56:30
my friends to achieve great things or to just achieve our
56:34
purpose in this life.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: But the whole fame aspect doesn't really need to come into play.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: The more I hear about it, the more like...
56:45
SPEAKER_01: Just give me the, like, money without the fame.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, so that would be great.
56:52
SPEAKER_01: The anonymity, but also a billionaire.
56:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:54
SPEAKER_01: That would be great.
56:55
Like,
56:56
give me all these accomplishments,
56:58
what I've done,
56:59
helped people,
57:00
blah,
57:00
blah,
57:00
blah.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: But without necessarily the... Yeah.
57:02
SPEAKER_01: You want to live a quiet life.
57:03
SPEAKER_03: But I don't get the sense that,
57:05
SPEAKER_03: like,
57:05
SPEAKER_03: you...
57:06
SPEAKER_03: At least from the conversation we had last time,
57:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't get the sense that you...
57:11
want the money or the fame like you you want to at least from
57:15
what we were talking
57:16
about you that national pride is fueling kind of like i want to
57:20
see my country yeah
57:22
thrive yeah and it's i mean i think with a kind of ambition
57:28
like that like
57:31
and you want the follow through on that like that will just
57:34
inherently mean like
57:36
challenge and like sacrifice and then probably success on some
57:43
level yeah yeah um
57:45
which will be challenging and hard but of course um worth it if
57:50
you deem it so you
57:51
SPEAKER_01: know
57:51
SPEAKER_01: I think it would be worth it.
57:54
SPEAKER_01: If you get to live out your purpose,
57:55
SPEAKER_01: whatever the end may be,
57:57
SPEAKER_01: it will be worth it,
57:57
SPEAKER_01: even if it required sacrifice.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: But I was just reading this thing or listening to something.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: But they said, like...
58:09
the heck was it it was less serious it wasn't like purpose it
58:12
wasn't like national
58:14
building but it was like do what you love yeah i think it was
58:18
more so like that
58:19
like do what you love don't forget the money part i think
58:22
that's also important
58:23
SPEAKER_00: yeah
58:25
SPEAKER_01: Which is why I would never say I don't think about money.
58:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, I think about money all the time.
58:32
SPEAKER_01: But it's... It gives you the option to say no.
58:36
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
58:37
SPEAKER_01: Or the option to take six months and just chill with your kids.
58:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:40
SPEAKER_01: At home.
58:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:43
or it's just a tool to continue totally fueling whatever you
58:48
deem your purpose to
58:49
be yeah um yeah so yeah i'd never forget about that part i
58:53
don't think or i don't
58:55
SPEAKER_01: want it to be my main driver totally um
59:01
SPEAKER_01: But I would never forget about it either.
59:02
SPEAKER_01: I think that's too naive.
59:04
SPEAKER_03: How do you be a good steward of that as well, I think?
59:08
SPEAKER_03: Because, I mean, the reality is that you need it to live.
59:13
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
59:14
SPEAKER_03: Especially here in California.
59:16
SPEAKER_03: Don't you need it here?
59:17
SPEAKER_01: Especially, like, we're in Irvine right now, right?
59:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
59:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the...
59:23
SPEAKER_03: epicenter of needing lots of money to live.
59:27
SPEAKER_03: Mine's crazy.
59:28
SPEAKER_03: It's very nice, though.
59:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh, it is.
59:30
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
59:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:31
SPEAKER_03: The ping pong table right there and the pool table.
59:34
SPEAKER_03: We're not even inside.
59:36
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, no, I completely agree that it's it's not like I don't know.
59:40
SPEAKER_03: And that's why it's not like
59:43
um most things are not black and white they're they're gray and
59:48
complicated and
59:50
there's somewhere in the middle that's probably like the best
59:52
place to be yeah um
59:54
and that's like yeah you need money but then it also like can't
59:57
rule your life yeah
59:59
but then yeah i i want to be an ambitious person but i also
1:00:02
want to live quietly
1:00:02
yeah um and i also want to have a bunch of time for family but
1:00:05
i also want to like
1:00:07
uh create something cool that like helps the world in some way
1:00:11
so it's i think
1:00:13
that's like the excitement that i have around these
1:00:15
conversations is like how can i
1:00:16
learn from people like you and people that have come before us
1:00:20
yeah and um kind of
1:00:22
SPEAKER_03: gain their
1:00:25
SPEAKER_03: through their experiences,
1:00:27
SPEAKER_03: like conversation,
1:00:28
SPEAKER_03: so I don't have to like go through those experiences.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_03: That's always the best teacher in my opinion,
1:00:33
but I'd much rather learn about hard people's experience by
1:00:37
just talking to them
1:00:38
SPEAKER_03: rather than having to go through it.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, another quote that I love.
1:00:43
Smart people learn from their mistakes,
1:00:45
wise people learn from others' mistakes.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
1:00:49
SPEAKER_03: I think that growing up,
1:00:50
I tried to embody that as much as possible because my two older
1:00:54
brothers were the
1:00:55
SPEAKER_03: people...
1:00:56
SPEAKER_03: They were the guinea pig children, like making the mistakes and stuff.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_03: And I definitely made my fair share of mistakes.
1:01:01
But I tried to observe like,
1:01:03
oh,
1:01:04
mom and dad get really angry when Andrew does this thing.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_03: I should probably avoid doing that.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_03: Some kids would be like, I'm going to do it.
1:01:11
Yeah,
1:01:11
well,
1:01:12
sometimes my answer was I should avoid doing that in front of
1:01:15
them.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_00: I will do that behind their back.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, their parents.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_03: So they figure it out.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_03: And then it's even worse for me.
1:01:24
but now we're the parents i know isn't that wild yeah and life
1:01:29
is only going to
1:01:29
speed up from here yeah we'll see how it goes but i'm excited
1:01:33
for it yeah excited
1:01:35
for it i'm very is there is there like something that you are
1:01:40
like apprehensive
1:01:41
SPEAKER_03: about in becoming a parent or are you just is it all elation
1:01:48
it's a lot of it is elation there is caution i just hope i live
1:01:55
up to it because in
1:01:57
a lot of ways i don't know the challenges to come ahead but i
1:02:03
know the type of
1:02:04
person that i want to be in those challenges and yeah it's not
1:02:10
like a mystery yeah
1:02:12
i just hope i live up to it um to that type of person yeah yeah
1:02:17
and then if if i am
1:02:19
that type of person then whatever comes my way i'm sure isero
1:02:22
and i can figure it
1:02:23
out yeah um yeah well you have such a great backbone of family
1:02:28
and support that
1:02:30
dude and then not to mention your relationship with jesus that
1:02:33
yeah is kind of the
1:02:35
SPEAKER_03: the main thing but
1:02:37
yeah i i have every confidence that you guys will be amazing
1:02:41
thank you thank you
1:02:42
parents and i mean you'll roll with the punches and figure it
1:02:46
out i think it's not
1:02:47
figure it out attitude is very very important yeah the first
1:02:50
week is pretty intense
1:02:52
SPEAKER_03: but that's what i hear um yeah no sleep is crazy i know
1:02:57
yeah did you pull all-nighters in like school and stuff no
1:03:01
nothing was ever that
1:03:02
yeah exactly i feel like so many people that we went to school
1:03:06
with were like oh my
1:03:07
gosh i can't believe i studied for this test on i was like ah
1:03:11
no thanks i think i'm
1:03:12
just gonna sleep and then like yeah if i didn't study enough
1:03:15
then that's on me dude
1:03:17
SPEAKER_01: i was more willing to just ask
1:03:20
a professor like can i delay this can i hand this in later then
1:03:24
pull an all-nighter
1:03:26
um yeah i don't know at some point after like 11 o'clock my
1:03:29
brain just shuts down
1:03:31
SPEAKER_01: totally and yeah yeah that's hilarious wasn't for me
1:03:37
SPEAKER_03: Well, I have one last question that I want to put to all of my guests.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah?
1:03:43
SPEAKER_03: And I stole it from a podcast.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_03: Which one?
1:03:46
SPEAKER_03: It's called Diary of a CEO.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_03: What would you do on a billboard?
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: What would you put on a billboard?
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: I haven't heard that question.
1:03:52
SPEAKER_01: He asked that to every guest, I think.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_01: I love that podcast.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_01: It's a good one.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: What's your question?
1:03:57
SPEAKER_01: Huh?
1:03:58
SPEAKER_01: What was your question?
1:03:59
SPEAKER_03: Well, at the end of every podcast, now you got my book.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'm second guessing.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_03: Well, the book one is really good.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_03: I do want to hear what's a book that you would recommend everybody read.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_03: But the question I have is for the next guest that I have on,
1:04:17
SPEAKER_03: what is a question that you would ask them?
1:04:22
SPEAKER_03: That's a good one.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Stephen Bartlett, for this question.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_03: Wait, what's his name?
1:04:27
SPEAKER_03: I was literally thinking about.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_03: Stephen Bartlett.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_03: Stephen Bartlett.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's the guy that runs the podcast.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_03: He's a very good podcast.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_01: What's a question for your next guest?
1:04:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to think something broad, but...
1:04:43
SPEAKER_01: No, no, do whatever you want.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_03: It could be as granular as like, what's your favorite ice cream flavor?
1:04:49
SPEAKER_03: True, true.
1:04:49
Or it could be like,
1:04:51
what do you think about the universe and how we got here?
1:04:53
SPEAKER_03: Gosh.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_01: Maybe since you are a father and newly at that,
1:05:05
like what's one thing that is much more important than you
1:05:09
would have imagined?
1:05:10
SPEAKER_01: And what's one thing that's not as important as you thought it would be?
1:05:14
SPEAKER_01: About being a dad?
1:05:15
SPEAKER_01: About being a dad, yeah.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can...
1:05:18
broaden that out too to other topics but that's the one i'd be
1:05:21
curious about like
1:05:22
about being a dad yeah who's just a little further along the
1:05:25
journey than you that
1:05:26
would be a good question okay to like open it up okay yeah well
1:05:30
i was gonna say you
1:05:31
should answer that but i can't have the experience yet so we'll
1:05:35
we'll get back to
1:05:36
you talk to me in like i don't know five years ten years yeah
1:05:40
yeah yeah we'll have
1:05:41
SPEAKER_01: to do a reunion episode why not but that's a good question
1:05:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a really good question.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_03: What would you do?
1:05:48
SPEAKER_01: What's the answer?
1:05:49
SPEAKER_03: Ask your question back to yourself.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_03: My answer to the question you just posed?
1:05:53
SPEAKER_03: No, to that.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_03: Oh, what's a question that I would ask the next guest?
1:05:57
SPEAKER_03: Your next guest, yeah.
1:05:59
um i mean i feel like the question i'm always asking myself is
1:06:03
like can can i do
1:06:05
everything um can i be really ambitious and then also live like
1:06:10
a quiet life um or
1:06:13
are the two like mutually exclusive uh and can you only do one
1:06:18
yeah um and then
1:06:20
like how have you seen that play out in your life yeah um but i
1:06:23
like your question
1:06:24
SPEAKER_01: better so i'm gonna ask that no that's a good question too
1:06:27
yeah seeing i think because you are right we have more examples
1:06:31
of the people who
1:06:33
are super ambitious but also like they don't live a quiet life
1:06:36
yeah because if you
1:06:37
live a quiet life the very definition of it means you're not on
1:06:41
all these podcasts
1:06:41
SPEAKER_03: yeah yeah yeah or or you're just like in the background yeah
1:06:45
I think like one of my favorite,
1:06:47
I love this YouTube channel that I've been watching recently.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_03: It's called Speed with three E's.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_03: It's really random.
1:06:56
It's this guy that used to work for this other YouTube channel
1:06:59
called Donut Media.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_03: And they are like a car channel.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_03: But this guy like broke off from them and now he does like his own thing.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_03: And some of it's about cars and then some of it's about like history.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I like his history episodes more.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_03: Like he's just a, he's a funny guy and he's, he writes well.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_03: Um, but he talks about, he recently had one about Leica cameras.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_03: Oh, cool.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_03: Um, which like, it's my dream to have a Leica camera someday.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_03: Um,
1:07:26
and it was about like the founder of Leica and the people that
1:07:31
kind of made Leica
1:07:32
SPEAKER_03: what it is today.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_03: Um,
1:07:34
SPEAKER_03: And I think his angle was like, Leica's the coolest camera ever.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_03: Why do like celebrities always have Leicas?
1:07:41
But like the way in that he talked about it was like through
1:07:45
the history of it.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_03: Through the history of it.
1:07:46
SPEAKER_03: That's pretty cool.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_03: And like so many of those innovative...
1:07:50
people that changed the world were like quiet people that like
1:07:54
just did their work
1:07:55
really well with excellence and then kind of disappeared into
1:07:59
the ether and then
1:08:00
like became known for whatever thing they did where like for
1:08:05
Leica they developed
1:08:06
innovative camera technology that like changed the way that we
1:08:10
were able to
1:08:10
photograph stuff which has like changed the way the world works
1:08:14
because now we can
1:08:15
SPEAKER_03: take pictures in the like
1:08:18
there were that was like the main war camera oh that's because
1:08:21
it was so uh like
1:08:23
efficient and worked so well um that like all the war
1:08:27
photographers to like get
1:08:28
news back to people would like use uh the m6 i think is what
1:08:33
it's called but anyway
1:08:35
it's just like those types of people that are quiet under the
1:08:38
like humble um but
1:08:40
like change the the way the world works and i don't know if i
1:08:44
want to do that
1:08:45
uh like be a world changer or whatever but there's probably an
1:08:49
aspect of that like
1:08:50
yeah like what's the ambition that's driving me to to do
1:08:54
something that will make
1:08:56
the world a better place that i can also like use my skills and
1:09:01
giftings and
1:09:01
talents for but yeah so who knows we'll see our our next guest
1:09:08
better have the
1:09:08
SPEAKER_03: answers to all of this