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From Conflict to Clarity: Financial DNA Explained with Hugh Massie · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:00
  If you've ever found yourself at odds with your financial decisions, or worse yet, if money conflicts have strained your most important relationships, you're certainly not alone.
• 0:12
  Money is often cited as the leading cause of marital strife and divorce.
• 0:17
  But what if understanding your financial behaviors and those of your partner could be the key to harmony in both your finances and your relationship?
• 0:27
  Today's episode is for anyone navigating the tumultuous waters of financial stress.
• 0:32
  Whether you're an entrepreneur, a financial advisor, or simply someone seeking a healthier relationship with money, our guest, Hugh Massey, will dive into how understanding the underlying behavioral patterns that drive our financial decisions can lead to profound aha moments.
• 0:51
  These realizations not only help us make better financial choices, but can also foster deeper connection and respect in our relationships.
• 1:01
  We'll uncover how Hugh's groundbreaking work with DNA Behavior provides the tools to decode these financial DNA patterns, offering you a roadmap for creating an effective action plan and neutralizing biases around money discussions.
• 1:17
  This isn't just about dry numbers.
• 1:19
  It's about transforming your everyday interactions and building a fulfilled life.
• 1:25
  Hugh will answer the crucial question, how can understanding your financial DNA improve not just your financial decisions, but but your relationship as well?
• 1:35
  As always, if you found value from.
• 1:37
  This content, please like and subscribe.
• 1:40
  Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Beyond Fulfillment podcast.
• 1:45
  I'm your host, Dave Gulas, and this week my guest is the executive chairman and founder of DNA Behavior, Hugh Massie.
• 1:55
  Welcome, Hugh.
• 1:56
  Yeah, great to be with you, Dave.
• 1:58
  Yeah, appreciate you taking the time if you could, for everyone.
• 2:02
  Hugh, can you tell us what DNA Behavior is and how it got started?
• 2:07
  So DNA Behavior is a enterprise behavioral data analytics business and we specialize in providing financial behavior insights to financial planners, wealth managers for to.
• 2:24
  To understand the behavior of investors.
• 2:27
  But we also do the same with helping investors understand company leaders in terms of how they make financial decisions, what drives profitability, you know, building out the organizational development so that, that's, that's, that's what we do as a
• 2:45
  business.
• 2:47
  Okay, very interesting.
• 2:49
  And have you been in the finance space for some time?
• 2:54
  Yes.
• 2:55
  So it's probably relevant, you know, for, for the podcast to sort of get a little bit about and the conversation a little bit about my, my journey.
• 3:03
  Dave, in that originally I was a cpa, so you might call me a recovering or reformed CPA in the sense that I've switched from the numbers side of the fence to the human behavior side of the fence.
• 3:19
  But at the end of the day, numbers are driven by people.
• 3:24
  When one gets rational about it.
• 3:26
  So there's very much a connection there.
• 3:28
  And when I finished with my CPA career, I set up a wealth management family office business in Australia.
• 3:35
  And I had a desire to provide highly personalized experience to the wealth management clients, you know, senior executives, families around, understanding who they were.
• 3:49
  And at that time I didn't have a system, although I had been in a, I suppose in a de facto way, practicing human behavior even when I was a CPA in terms of customizing how I delivered accounting and
• 4:04
  tax advice and.
• 4:07
  But one of the things that I very much came to see when I had the wealth management business was that money causes stress for people.
• 4:17
  And that really what I wanted to do was, was, was reduce stress in people's lives.
• 4:23
  And, and I don't think there's any person out there in the world who is not stressed by money in some way.
• 4:30
  And the research out there shows you that even wealthy people are stressed by money just in different ways to baby people who haven't got what they need to have.
• 4:43
  And a lot of it is comes down to our belief systems about money.
• 4:49
  You know, money in a way, is a neutral instrument, neutral tool.
• 4:54
  Money is what we think it is.
• 4:56
  You know, we can look at money as negative and we can look at it as positive, we can look at it as evil, we can sort of put the golden light on it, if you want to, if you
• 5:05
  want to call it that.
• 5:07
  But however we look at it, it can cause stress unless we develop the right mindsets.
• 5:14
  And so once I understood that and that when people are under pressure, their stress levels increased, I wanted to understand who people were.
• 5:27
  And that's what led me to building the DNA behavior systems that we have today, which are really technology systems to help discover who a person is, what their talents are, how they want to be communicated with, how they
• 5:40
  deal with money.
• 5:41
  So that's, that's the journey.
• 5:43
  And so, you know, I eventually, once I figured all that out and brought in psychologists to help me build the business, came to Atlanta 40 times in 40 years.
• 5:53
  For four years.
• 5:54
  I mean, I decided to live in Atlanta instead of Sydney.
• 5:59
  And I thought, well, this is where I'm going to get more fulfillment Anyway.
• 6:03
  I wasn't as fulfilled in running a wealth management business, just helping people with investments.
• 6:10
  It was more about people.
• 6:12
  And so when I got to all that, I decided to make DNA behavior my day day business.
• 6:18
  And I offloaded the wealth management business.
• 6:22
  So hopefully that sort of gives everybody a bit of a picture of how I've got to the place I'M at today.
• 6:29
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:30
  Okay, so a whole lot to unpack there.
• 6:32
  So your cpa.
• 6:35
  Yeah.
• 6:35
  You transition to, you know, this, this family office wealth management company.
• 6:41
  Yeah.
• 6:41
  And you're seeing, like you said.
• 6:43
  Right.
• 6:44
  Money is probably the number one cause of stress for everyone.
• 6:49
  Yep.
• 6:50
  You know, like you said, regardless of your wealth level.
• 6:53
  And you have this idea that you want to, you know, peel back the onion, so to speak, and really understand, you know, why and, and what, what makes people operate the way they do.
• 7:05
  And so how do you know, coming from, you know, CPA and then just having this investment firm.
• 7:12
  What was the process like in terms of, you know, putting that together?
• 7:17
  Because like you said, you have to bring in psychologists and this whole other business you're building.
• 7:22
  Like, what was it like putting that into something tangible?
• 7:26
  Well, it's been a mammoth process.
• 7:28
  It's, it's really been the last, if you want to call it 24 years of my life doing all of that probably, and a lot with, you know, and, and if you said three or four years of thinking before
• 7:42
  that where I was less conscious about the issues.
• 7:45
  But, you know, so you might even say it's a 30 year journey or more.
• 7:48
  I mean, it's been inside me, I think this has been inside me a long time.
• 7:54
  But to piece this together in, in terms of coming up with the theories, doing the research, building technology around it to make it applicable, going out and talking to people, being rejected I don't know how many times by
• 8:09
  people.
• 8:09
  But also, of course you get accepted as well.
• 8:13
  But you know, that, that, that's been a mammoth journey and we're still, you know, in a lot of ways, Dave, at the early, at the early stages of it.
• 8:25
  But I, but I, what I take heart in is the fact that the issues that I address with this, in terms of money and how it causes stress, its impact on health, people's life purpose, relationship to money, are
• 8:40
  all becoming more mainstream topics today than they were 25 years ago.
• 8:48
  Are people any different to what they were 25 years ago?
• 8:51
  Not really.
• 8:52
  Are we.
• 8:53
  But are we in a different environment today?
• 8:56
  Yep, no doubt.
• 8:58
  Where, you know, I mean, let's not go down the political avenues here.
• 9:04
  But we're just, societally, I think we're in a different place.
• 9:08
  And so these conversations are coming up.
• 9:13
  But, you know, piecing it together was a lot.
• 9:18
  Not just financially, but time, expertise pivoting a lot.
• 9:25
  You know, I think that when people, entrepreneurs start a business, they have a dream and a vision, they build something that's business plan A but you're not going to get very far before you get to business plan G.
• 9:39
  You know, and it might even be more than G.
• 9:43
  You know, you might be at business plan Y or Z before you, you're really taking off, but that's what you've got to go through.
• 9:57
  So as you're going through the process, like you said, big time commitment and it really became sort of your, your, your, your life's mission at a certain point.
• 10:07
  Like was there a, like what, what was the first big pivot you had to make in terms of when you're putting this together and like you said, going from plan A to G or further down the line.
• 10:19
  Give us an example of what was like the first pivot you had to make.
• 10:23
  Yeah, so there's probably quite a few pivots.
• 10:27
  I think that one, if I sort of give you an example, sort of a journey of them.
• 10:32
  One was when we started the business, it was very much, it was very singular.
• 10:40
  We would get a financial advisor to use the technology on their clients.
• 10:46
  Like that's what we were doing in our wealth management business.
• 10:48
  You know, I was the financial advisor or wealth manager.
• 10:50
  I'd use the system on our clients to understand their behavior, have conversations.
• 10:56
  Next pivots, getting other financial advisors to do the same with their clients.
• 11:04
  We then went through a pivot of okay, we would sell the profile because it's really a, you know, in a way it's a financial personality profile, if you want to call it that.
• 11:14
  We would sell it one by one and then it goes to a subscription model.
• 11:17
  That's a whole structural change in the business and way of thinking.
• 11:21
  So we implemented that.
• 11:23
  Then we had clients saying, you know, Hugh, we like what you've got, but can we use this for hiring people, building teams, choosing which advisor should work with which client.
• 11:34
  And so we built, we started off with what, a product called Financial DNA.
• 11:39
  Then we built business DNA off the same system.
• 11:42
  So now it became very broad based.
• 11:45
  Then we started getting companies outside financial services wanting to use this, you know, so we have now today clients from, you know, the, the U.S.
• 11:53
  military and Homeland Security intel going down to your 10 person entrepreneurial house.
• 12:02
  So we went through, we, you know, we went through that.
• 12:05
  So how do we make the business relevant for everybody?
• 12:08
  That's a pivot.
• 12:09
  And then roll forward to today and we've got AI right?
• 12:16
  And I think this has become the big one.
• 12:18
  So we've always relied on, as we built the business, it used to take people 30 minutes to complete the online discovery.
• 12:25
  We Got it down to an average of 10 and a half minutes over a few years of technological tweaks, making the experience better.
• 12:32
  So you've always got all those tweaks.
• 12:35
  But the big shift then has come recently with AI.
• 12:41
  And I looked at our business last year and said, you know, we could optimize it by 2x by just improving varying things, being sharper in sales messages, tuning up things, or we can go for 10x.
• 12:58
  And that's really looking at then who are the best clients, how do we optimize the service for them?
• 13:07
  Who maybe isn't our ideal clients taking us a lot of time to, you know, to find them, serve them, you know, so we, we did all of that work, but we also looked at and said, if we want
• 13:20
  to really scale up, how can AI complete the assessment instead of the person having to complete it in the first instance?
• 13:32
  And so we built an AI generated process that has no friction.
• 13:38
  We can now have tens of thousands, millions of people basically have behavioral data analytics produced on them for them without human participation.
• 13:56
  And that changes the game, Dave, completely on our business and what we can do.
• 14:02
  Because take a financial services business, you've got, you know, let's say you've got 50 financial advisors in the business, you know, a thousand clients or whatever it is, you know, 5,000 clients, 50,000 prospects in your market.
• 14:24
  We could digitally scan all of them and provide you with a picture of your business.
• 14:29
  Who, which advisors, connecting with which clients, which, you know, what clients should work with, which advisor.
• 14:37
  How would you market to all the prospects and farm them into the client, you know, into the firm?
• 14:43
  How do you improve that client experience for each person?
• 14:48
  Because that's really the driver of any business, is improving the client experience.
• 14:52
  Of course, the employee experience as well goes hand in glove with that.
• 14:58
  And essentially that's what we can do.
• 15:00
  Or we've done a project recently where we've analyzed Every S&P 500 company leader, and we're able to rank them against company profitability.
• 15:11
  So we're now able to identify which S&P 500 companies are most likely in the future to be the strongest based on the behavior of people.
• 15:22
  That's been a blind spot in investing since Adam was a boy, in the sense that you can go and get a Morningstar rating on a company based on historical numbers, but what's the company going to do in the
• 15:37
  future that's driven by people?
• 15:41
  This scanning enables us to do a lot of things.
• 15:44
  Okay, so now you're saying the AI allows you to create a Profile without any human participation.
• 15:53
  So is it just monitoring behavior, moves made?
• 15:59
  How is the AI creating this profile without.
• 16:02
  Yeah, so we've designed a series of prompts, if you want to call it that.
• 16:07
  That's what the AI term is these days.
• 16:10
  And we're able to feed them through our Microsoft platforms out into public data sources to grab, if you want to call it the words insights about a person that then sends back the feedback we need for it to
• 16:24
  answer our questionnaire.
• 16:27
  And it's not necessarily driven by transactions people are doing.
• 16:32
  It might be driven more by things that they do or doing and have done in the past.
• 16:36
  So their career mapping, but it also can relate to words they're using out there in videos, public statements, actions they're taking.
• 16:48
  There's a whole.
• 16:49
  We know there's a whole.
• 16:51
  There's a wide range of elements we're picking up.
• 16:54
  We assimilate them and then we use that to answer our questionnaire.
• 16:59
  Okay, so if I'm understanding this right, let's say There's a.
• 17:02
  A CEO of an S P 500 company and he or she may be out there doing press conferences, earnings calls, whatever other press, combined with their career history, combined with anything else that's in the public domain.
• 17:20
  You're saying the AI can basically crawl all that data and then put it through your formula and create a financial DNA?
• 17:31
  Yeah, and then we know that.
• 17:32
  Okay, for that CEO, we know their authority bias over the company.
• 17:37
  So how strong is their personal influence over the company?
• 17:41
  Which is important because I think that CEOs are generally and should be a big influence over company in the culture, then what we uncover is their ability to drive results, their financial goal drive, their innovation capabilities, you know,
• 17:57
  the resource utilization.
• 17:59
  What's their capability to manage the money in the business?
• 18:02
  That's a big area.
• 18:03
  Where companies fall down is invest too much in innovation, for example, or in airplanes and nonsense that doesn't drive a result.
• 18:17
  And then the ability to stay focused on goals and build a sales pipeline.
• 18:22
  We're looking at all that and then there's a culture.
• 18:25
  So we then also look at the ability of the company to build relationships or the executives to influence that kind of culture.
• 18:32
  So that's the basis of what's getting or the foundations of what's getting measured.
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• 19:33
  Let'S talk about what this, this financial DNA looks like.
• 19:38
  Because, you know, I'm sure the audience has seen different DNA tests, that there's a, there's a wide range of things.
• 19:44
  And then the first time I heard about this, I naturally associated it with like a disc personality assessment or like a Braverman assessment.
• 19:53
  So like how, what's the scale like and how many different financial DNA so to speak.
• 20:00
  Like the range.
• 20:02
  Yeah, so that's a, that's a good question.
• 20:05
  So let's say that if someone was completing our assessment themselves, but it's the same outputs.
• 20:12
  If it's done digitally with a digital scan, we measure the foundation of it.
• 20:21
  It is in a sense akin to a personality test.
• 20:24
  But this gives you four insights or Mars brings, gives you four insights.
• 20:29
  For disk, it's are you high D high I, high S, high C type thing.
• 20:35
  We measure eight primary factors and 32 sub factors.
• 20:40
  They're the psychometric measurements.
• 20:42
  But then we are relating that to whether someone takes risks, how they set goals, are they a saver or spender communication style, do they follow the herd in terms of making decision making, what their optimism is, you know,
• 21:01
  do they have regret in making decisions?
• 21:05
  Authority bias.
• 21:06
  So we're looking at it more.
• 21:08
  We get to the reporting gets to far more practical levels of the types of actions people might be motivated to take rather than just leaving them labeled up as a high D or a high I.
• 21:23
  Now that's where it becomes different.
• 21:27
  So we do that both in financial terms, but we also do it in terms of their talents.
• 21:34
  You know, so one, we might look at it whether somebody is innovative or how adaptable are they in, in the workplace, how anchored are they in following a process, if that, if that makes sense.
• 21:47
  Okay, yeah.
• 21:49
  And then the, the next question too because you know, you hear in like the personal development field, right, they talk about like a money blueprint or the, you know, the, the beliefs about money and how, how people can
• 22:02
  change those that they, they have some know, subconscious Beliefs that are sabotaging themselves like with this.
• 22:09
  And then you know, when we think about DNA, oftentimes.
• 22:13
  Right.
• 22:14
  That that's thought of as more fixed.
• 22:17
  Right.
• 22:17
  So when you, you know, create a financial DNA score and let's just say, let's say you're using that with a CEO, right.
• 22:25
  Who maybe when can see his or her DNA and blueprint, like do you find that these are, you know, things that can be changed and things that they can use that as a way to say, okay, I'm strong
• 22:40
  here but maybe I'm weaker here or I might want to change this given my role.
• 22:45
  Like how, how can the information be used to, to.
• 22:50
  Yeah, so we're getting to the coaching element of this now and that's a good question.
• 22:55
  So when I started the business and the reason the company is called DNA behavior, what I saw Dave, was when people are under, and we've proven it to be true, when people are under pressure, they tend to revert
• 23:08
  to their natural hardwired behavior that's set from very early in life.
• 23:13
  So what we've shown out is, what shows out is that people have a hardwired behavioral wiring, if you want to call it that, that's largely set to about 75 to 85% by the time they're three years old and
• 23:29
  then it's 95% set by the time they're seven.
• 23:32
  So your early life from conception, if you want to call it that, through early life experiences, shapes the core of who you are that then drives life perspectives a lot of your core talents.
• 23:45
  Now our belief is an approach is that's what we seek to measure up front.
• 23:52
  To know the core of who the person is.
• 23:56
  But then developmentally is to say, you know, to the CEO, for example, you are, as you just said, you are strong in these areas.
• 24:06
  That's what you want to keep using.
• 24:08
  But if you overplay those strengths, they become struggles.
• 24:10
  So if you're, let's say you're a really good communicator naturally and that is something that's important, can be important for a CEO.
• 24:19
  But there will be points if you talk too much, talk too emotionally, say the wrong things at the wrong time, loose lip sync ships, right.
• 24:30
  So that's, that's one of their life challenges that they've got to manage or someone could be on the other side, extremely spontaneous, they're not that detailed and structured and also they're not that good at, you know, making disciplined
• 24:46
  financial choices.
• 24:49
  Yeah, that free flowing nature is really important for being adaptable, responding on the spot dealing with crisis at times in a quick way.
• 25:00
  But if they don't check the details and keep some disciplines that, you know, they can crash the ship.
• 25:08
  So, you know, the key thing here is what we believe is always to start, is always start by knowing the core behavior and then showing the person the pathway to how they can adapt and what they need to
• 25:21
  adapt.
• 25:22
  It's up to them and their level of consciousness and how much work they want to do to adapt that, that comes down to how important it is for them, right to their success.
• 25:31
  But if you start with someone's learned behaviors, who they, who they think they are and they've become, you've never got an accurate picture because that always changes and that'll vary under pressure.
• 25:44
  You want to start with the core and then help them change and know where they've got to adapt their behavior.
• 25:53
  Does that make, if that makes sense?
• 25:55
  Yeah.
• 25:56
  Yeah.
• 25:56
  Okay.
• 25:57
  All right.
• 25:58
  And then so, and this is true.
• 25:59
  With as much true with just general behavior as it is with money, because money runs parallel to everything we do.
• 26:08
  Absolutely, absolutely.
• 26:10
  Okay, so where's the company now in terms of, in terms of the life cycle and who your customers are at this moment?
• 26:23
  Well, you know, that's a very interesting question.
• 26:26
  You know, some days I still think it's a startup and maybe when is it not?
• 26:32
  I mean, we are still a privately backed company.
• 26:36
  You know, this has all been fueled and funded by me.
• 26:40
  You know, we have 60 employees, so we're not, we're not completely small, but we're not the largest company out there.
• 26:47
  But when trying not to be as well, I think part of the AI move is that we, we stay small and lean, but we have great scalability from that.
• 26:56
  But we have, you know, we have a whole group of coaches and consultants out there that use our system so that our ecosystem is, is quite big.
• 27:05
  When you take that, that, that, you know, that involves several thousand people out there in an, in the ecosystems of the business.
• 27:14
  And you know, I think we've, in terms of the life cycle, we're going more and more towards working with enterprise clients and maybe not as much the smaller business, but then some of our ecosystem works with the smaller
• 27:28
  business.
• 27:28
  But, you know, we're not saying no to anybody, but we tend to be gravitating towards the enterprise business.
• 27:36
  So I suppose that's a sign of maturity in the sense that our technology can operate at that level.
• 27:44
  We've just signed up a firm, you know, with, with, with 20 million family clients, so we, we, we can operate at that level as much as we can with a firm that's got only, only 50 clients.
• 27:59
  Okay, so you're saying that directly you're working with more enterprise companies, but you may license the product to a consultant or a coach maybe that's going to work with, let's say, small businesses that sort of.
• 28:11
  Yeah, and, and some of them, you know, one of our consultants brought in, you know, a very large enterprise recently.
• 28:18
  So, you know, and we allow them to, we, we help, we help them with that.
• 28:21
  So, but, but, but also the consultants will work with smaller businesses too.
• 28:26
  We don't stop any of that.
• 28:29
  Okay.
• 28:31
  And so what's, what's been the feedback as well?
• 28:34
  Because this, this is a very, I guess, different type of, different type of technology.
• 28:43
  Right.
• 28:43
  As opposed, you know, in terms of finance and you know, the financial industry, what's the reception been like from, from the customers and the people that have used this product so far?
• 28:56
  Yeah, I mean it's, it's, I think that what I would say is that no one has denied the truth of what we're doing, the accuracy for some, or even if you said a good majority, let's not lie about
• 29:21
  it, if you said in the wealth management industry, most financial advisors have not been used to deploying a process like what we have up front with their clients.
• 29:34
  The ones that do, you know, we've got some that have done it with us for 20 years.
• 29:39
  Right.
• 29:40
  Stay very sticky to it once they're, once they're there.
• 29:42
  But for, for quite a lot it's a mindset shift.
• 29:46
  And I think the issue, Dave, has been also that it's an extra step that they have to do and not all have seen that they have to do it.
• 29:57
  And now with the digital scan, we think that there's no excuse because it can just be done.
• 30:04
  They don't have to invest the time in getting the clients to complete the process up front.
• 30:11
  We would still say the client should eventually go through it, but we've made it easier for the financial advisor to, to get the data.
• 30:22
  I think that for financial advisors also having more of a coaching based conversation with the clients has not been something that they were, you know, trained to do when they started business.
• 30:34
  And that's, that's a new thing.
• 30:36
  And so, you know, in that, in that, in that way we've all, so they have to confront themselves as well.
• 30:41
  And so, you know, they're all paradigms.
• 30:44
  I think some of that is they have to be shifted.
• 30:47
  Some of that is easier.
• 30:48
  In corporations where there's a People, culture manager.
• 30:52
  There's more people in house trained to do this type of thing.
• 30:55
  People have been more used to thinking this way, so we don't have that same blockage there.
• 31:00
  But I think in financial services, it is.
• 31:03
  This is.
• 31:04
  This is unlocking itself because the subject of money is so impactful on people's lives and causes so much stress and has the health issues, longevity issues, People are wanting to get to the bottom of it more, and that's
• 31:21
  playing more and more in our favor.
• 31:24
  Okay.
• 31:26
  And so, you know, when.
• 31:29
  When I think if it was easy, there'd be lots of.
• 31:32
  Lots of people who've already been doing it.
• 31:35
  And.
• 31:36
  And that's not true.
• 31:39
  Sure.
• 31:39
  Yeah.
• 31:40
  And.
• 31:40
  Right.
• 31:41
  Because when I think of a DNA test, too, and even some of the ones I've taken.
• 31:44
  Right.
• 31:45
  Like, in hindsight, you get the results, and you're like, wow, that makes so much sense in terms of why certain things happen or certain behaviors or whether Anders ancestry or health.
• 31:55
  Right.
• 31:56
  We can see how.
• 31:57
  How accurate, you know, they are.
• 32:01
  Do you find the same thing when you go through results with somebody and they say.
• 32:06
  Right.
• 32:06
  Like, they.
• 32:07
  They almost kind of have an aha moment.
• 32:09
  Okay.
• 32:09
  That's why I have this behavior.
• 32:12
  Make decisions like this or, you know, is it.
• 32:16
  Yeah, I think that, that, that, that, that, that in the.
• 32:19
  In this, you're absolutely.
• 32:21
  In the simplest cases, people say, that's me, but it's clarifying for them.
• 32:28
  And that.
• 32:29
  And that.
• 32:29
  I've always said that provides confidence to keep going on the track you're on and not change for others, which I think is more the normal case.
• 32:38
  There's always an area of a blind spot, which usually comes up around the person's strongest behaviors.
• 32:44
  They can see the strength of that behavior and how strong it is relative to others, but they'll also start to see from the struggles why it might be getting them into trouble.
• 32:59
  And there's always an area, one area at least, if not two, for each person, where they get.
• 33:06
  They get a.
• 33:07
  They get a very big aha moment.
• 33:10
  For others, it helps them make a major decision.
• 33:13
  Okay.
• 33:13
  Yeah.
• 33:13
  I need to go down this track or I'm capable of doing this.
• 33:18
  You know, it sort of.
• 33:18
  It helps provide, you know, some of the mental shift that's needed.
• 33:24
  And, you know, speaking about relationships, too, if.
• 33:28
  If I'm.
• 33:29
  I believe the number one statistical cause of divorce is.
• 33:35
  Is money.
• 33:35
  Right.
• 33:36
  Yeah.
• 33:36
  Is.
• 33:36
  Is that right?
• 33:37
  You.
• 33:37
  You'd probably know better than me.
• 33:39
  Yep.
• 33:40
  Is.
• 33:40
  Do you see an application, too, to where this could potentially be used for couples in terms of understanding the others financial DNA to basically help help relationships.
• 33:53
  So a big part of what comes out of our system is let's say that a financial advisor has husband and wife or partners, you know, whatever terms that reflect the relationship sitting in front of them, because it also
• 34:08
  be business partners and life partners, we prevent, we provide comparative reporting.
• 34:15
  So once each have gone through the system or we've done a digital scan on both, we now show a report which highlights their differences.
• 34:24
  And we get them, we get them to talk, you know, to have a conversation about it, you know, in terms of one's a risk taker, the other one's not, one's higher on spending, the other one's not.
• 34:37
  And they start, they will, when they see that, naturally start to tell stories about it, those differences and also some of the similarities and they'll come to their own conclusions on that in terms of how that's been impacting
• 34:53
  the relationship.
• 34:54
  But also what's important to relationship success is that there's understanding, acceptance and respect.
• 35:02
  So when the couples start to see that they're different and they can accept those differences and respect them, they can get on the winning path much more easily.
• 35:13
  It doesn't mean just because one's a spender and the other one's a saver that it's always going to be right in terms of what gets done.
• 35:23
  But we now know where it's coming from and when people own up to that corrective action.
• 35:29
  If you want to take it, that whether it's living to a budget or a savings plan can be taken or there can be better conversations about where are we going to spend our money on lifestyle.
• 35:42
  So absolutely, this is a very powerful process that can help a couple, you know, understand and accept and respect their differences and then build an action plan for dealing with it.
• 35:59
  The problem for relationships is, is when, when you don't understand those differences, you don't appreciate them.
• 36:06
  And then you start to, you know, if you want to call it that, demonize each other for it by not understanding where it came from.
• 36:13
  And it's easy then to say, oh, well, you spend a lot of money because your mother did or you know, come up with false, false reasons why that's going on as opposed to having an adult conversation about it.
• 36:28
  And this provides, I think, a process that's science based, it's neutral, it's not, it's not that somebody made up that you're a spender, you are or you're not, right.
• 36:40
  And that helps neutralize some of the emotions.
• 36:47
  Okay.
• 36:48
  So you're saying too.
• 36:49
  Right, like when a couple goes through it in terms of.
• 36:51
  It's not just them making accusations about each other, it's actual data based on all these, these prompts and, and your system that, that, that tells also not.
• 37:04
  The financial advisor or the facilitator or the coach sitting in the middle making it up either based on what they heard out of converse, the conversation.
• 37:12
  Because that can always be biased too.
• 37:15
  Right.
• 37:15
  You know, let's say the coach, facilitator, advisor has always dealt with one of the parties, and suddenly they bring the other party in.
• 37:24
  There's a bias or there's a bias that's coming from the coach's own life.
• 37:27
  Right.
• 37:30
  And they impute that into the conversation.
• 37:32
  Well, now, now you just made it worse.
• 37:34
  Right.
• 37:36
  Whereas this is completely neutral.
• 37:38
  And the same is true, Dave, for family conversations and any team conversation.
• 37:43
  That's the advantage of this, is it.
• 37:45
  Is.
• 37:45
  It's completely objective.
• 37:48
  Ah, okay.
• 37:49
  So that neutrality takes any emotion out of emotion, partners, infighting or whatnot, in terms of the.
• 37:57
  It's objective and then it's.
• 37:59
  It's based on.
• 38:00
  On the facts and how the system computes that.
• 38:03
  That DNA.
• 38:04
  Yeah.
• 38:06
  Okay.
• 38:07
  All right.
• 38:08
  And so, Hugh, if people want to get in touch with you, learn more about this system and what you're doing, what's the best way that people can get in contact with you?
• 38:17
  Yeah.
• 38:18
  So just visit our website@dnabehavior.com I'm there.
• 38:22
  You can email me directly out of there, or you can email me@hugh.masseynabhavior.com and I'm also in LinkedIn.
• 38:33
  I'm the only Hugh Massey in.
• 38:34
  In Atlanta.
• 38:35
  And there's plenty of things that I've said, articles, podcasts, whatever, are.
• 38:43
  Are out and about there that you know, if you want to learn more.
• 38:47
  All right, and we'll link all that in the show notes for everyone.
• 38:50
  Perfect.
• 38:52
  All right, well, Hugh, we appreciate you taking the time to be here and sharing all this with us, and that is all the time we have for now.
• 38:59
  We.
• 38:59
  We will see you next time.