Latest / Beyond The Horizon / The Maxwell Trial Transcripts: Kate Describes Her Relationship With Ghislaine Maxwell (Part 5) (11/11/26)

Transcript

The Maxwell Trial Transcripts: Kate Describes Her Relationship With Ghislaine Maxwell (Part 5) (11/11/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where we left off with the testimony from Kate at
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine Maxwell's trial. But now, it's time for cross-examination. Judge Nathan. Counsel,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: are there matters to take up? Bobby Sternum, yes. Judge Nathan, okay,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: just a moment. Bobby Sternum, Ghislaine's lawyer. Judge, in light
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of this witness anonymity status, I think it's appropriate to
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: do it at a sidebar. If the court feels otherwise,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: then we can come into open court. So they go
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: to sidebar. Now they come back. The court, counsel, let
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: me just finish up where I am and we'll get going.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: The court, on the sexual harassment claim, I'm not going
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to allow it if there were a pattern of repeated
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: allegations of the same kind, even if you didn't have
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: a proffer. As to the falsity... then it would be
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: a closer call. But in the absence of any proffer
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: as to the falsity, in the light of one instance
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: of sexual harassment, I won't allow it. I think our
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: other open on is the tabloid, correct? I'm going to
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: allow that because there's a notion of exception of a friend,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: which goes to the credibility and its impeachment. I think
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: that resolves all of our open issues. Prosecution, your honor.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I wanted to note one thing that I had the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: chance to go back and look at some of the
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: 3500 material. and I know that there was planning to
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: ask the witness about an unsigned declaration involving, I think
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the witness's husband? Is that right? Defense, Bobby Sternum, no,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with her ex-husband. I was
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: going to ask if she had a friend or a
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: former person in her life. If he had, she had
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: asked him to plant the drugs on the father of
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: her child. Prosecution, so I wanted to flag this, because
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I had a chance to go back and look at
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the 3500 material, and she explained... that she was a
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: victim of domestic violence by her daughter's father, and I'm
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: happy to provide the page number, that she filed a
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: restraining order against him, that were, there were issues with that,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: and so to the extent that Ms. Sternum intends to
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: ask that, I do think that it would permit me to,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: on redirect, ask questions about the circumstances around that. The court,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I agree, but you'd ask questions around the circumstances of that,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: but I'll permit the question. Anything else? All right, thank you.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: The court, can we have the witness come back in, please?
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Bobby Sternum, Judge, may I hand you a binder? I'm
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: not sure we're going to need to use it, but
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I do have one for Kate as well. May I?
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Judge Nathan, yes. Let's bring in the jury. The court,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: thank you so much, members of the jury. Sorry for
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the slightly. We took the extended break that allowed me
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: to work through some of the things with the lawyers
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: to facilitate overall the efficiency of the process. So thank
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: you for your patience. Miss Sternum, you may begin your
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: cross-examination of the witness testifying under the name of Kate. Kate,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I remind you, you are under oath. Go ahead, Miss Sternum.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Bobby Sternum, thank you. Question. Good morning, Kate. I have
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: some questions to ask you. During your direct examination, you
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: had stated that Ghislaine was everything you wanted to be, correct? Answer.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: She appeared to be. Question. Now, you had a very
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: beautiful mother, didn't you? Answer. Yes. Question. She was a debutante, correct? Answer.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Question, she was married to a wealthy. Well,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: your stepfather is a wealthy man, correct? Answer, he was. Question,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: he had his own plane, correct? Answer, yes. Question, your
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: mother and your stepfather and in turn, you and your
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: brother lived a comfortable life at some point, didn't you? Answer, yes. Question,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: you lived in Belgravia section of London. That's a very
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: tony area of London, isn't it? Answer, yes. Question, and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: you live quite close to Kinnerton Street. which is where
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine lived, correct? Answer, yes. Question, in fact, Ghislaine lived
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: on the street that also is the street of the
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Nags Head Pub, correct? Answer, yes. Question, and that pub
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: is rather famous, a pub in London, isn't it? Answer,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, but it was right across the street, nonetheless,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: from Ghislaine's home at 44 Kinnerton, wasn't it? Answer, yes. Question,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: now going back to your mother for a moment, You
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: would watch and see the attention that your mother got
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: because of her beauty, didn't you? Answer. I thought she
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: was beautiful. Question. And didn't you say that you wanted
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: to garner that same kind of attention because you liked
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: the way people looked at her? Pomerantz. Objection, Your Honor.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: The court overruled. You may answer. Answer to clarify. Didn't
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I say when? Question. Well, you've spoken to a number
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: of tabloids and magazines throughout the year, haven't you? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: And you've been featured in a number of magazines and
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: news articles, haven't you? Answer. Yes. Question. You've spoken about
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: your life on a number of occasions, haven't you? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: And your picture has been in a number of magazines
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: as well, correct? Answer. Yes. Question. During the period of
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: time that you testified meeting Elaine and Epstein... You were
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: an international model? Answer. I was a model. Question. You
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: met Ghislaine in Paris when you had traveled there with
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the older prominent gentleman with whom you had been dating
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: at the time, correct? Answer. Yes. Question. And you learned
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: that the individual was an Oxford classmate of Ghislaine, correct? Answer. Yes. Question. Now,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: through the relationship that you had with the older gentleman,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you met a variety of people in the fashion industry,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: didn't you? Answer. Yes. Question. Yes. And through those connections,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: you met fashion journalists, correct? Answer, I'm not sure if
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: it was through those connections or not. Answer, well, didn't
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: you once say that you were in the right place
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: at the right time and your career in modeling was launched? Answer, possibly. Question,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: and didn't you also say that even without those connections,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: you believe that you would have made it anyway in modeling? Answer,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I don't recollect that. Question, you also
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: considered yourself to be fiercely ambitious, correct? Answer, at times. Question,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: in fact, back in around 2004, when you were interviewed,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: you said that for as long as you could remember,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: you were ambitious. Do you remember that? Answer, yes. Question,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and you also said that you spent 90% of your
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: time thinking about your next move, correct? Answer, yes. Question,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: but the other 10% was that you were thinking about
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: your dog, wasn't it? Answer, could have been. Question, and
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: at that time, you had a very large Great Dane, correct? Answer,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: at which time? Question, at the time you made the statement,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: when you said the other 10% was thinking about your dog. Answer,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I don't remember which dog it was at the time,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: but it's possible. Question, in around 2004, you did have
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: a Great Dane, didn't you? Answer, I don't remember the date,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: but I did have a Great Dane. That I used
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: to have a Great Dane. Question, but there was a
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: period in time in which you became a very well-known model, correct? Answer,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I was not very well-known. Question, well, you were on billboards,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: weren't you? Answer, I was on a billboard once. Question,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: and you were a model for the UK versions of
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Victoria's Secret, weren't you? Answer, no. Question, you were never
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: a model for an organization that sold lingerie? Answer, I
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: was a model for a lingerie company that failed almost
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: as soon as it began. Question, but was it a
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: lingerie company? Answer, yes. Question, and you were also a
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: model for clothing, weren't you? Answer, yes. Question, and millinery
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: and handbix? Correct, whatever that means. Answer, possibly, I don't recall.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: But suffice it to say, you had a photo shoot
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: in various parts of Europe, Milan. Answer, once in Milan. Question, Paris? Answer, yes. Question,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: and London? Answer, yes. Question, did you also model in
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the United States? Answer, no. Question, there came a time
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: when you did come to the United States though, correct? Answer, yes. Question,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: you moved to the United States at some point in
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: your career, correct? Answer, yes. Question, and when you came
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: here on the visa, you described which, in your situation,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: was an entertainment or talent visa, wasn't it? Answer, well,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: they call it an extraordinary ability, so that covers a
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: lot of fields. Question, but your extraordinary ability at the
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: time was to go to Hollywood, wasn't it? Answer, I
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: don't know if going to Hollywood is an extraordinary ability,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: but I was a musician. Question, okay, fair enough. You
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: were a musician, correct? Answer, yes. Question, you were a singer, correct? Answer, yes. Question,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: and in fact, when you were younger, 16 or 17,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: you were living in the south of France, correct? Answer, yes. Question,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and were at, I guess, a piano bar where you
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: were discovered by the musician Seal, weren't you? Answer, no. Question, never. Answer, no. Question,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: you never told that to the press at all? Answer, no. Question,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: you produced your own album or CD, correct? Question, yes. Answer,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: and you launched it on your own, correct? Answer, in part. Question,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: and fair to say, that was the only album or
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: CD you ever launched? Answer, yes. Question, you also were
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: an actress, weren't you? Answer, that was not my trade. Question, well,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: it was your trade or not, it's fair to say,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: that you acted in movies, correct? Answer, I did not
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: have speaking roles, so I was kind of an extra
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: a couple of times. Question, and you were in a
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: movie with a very well-known British actor, correct? Answer, yes. Question,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and you were in a couple of other movies as
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: well over the years, weren't you? Answer, I'm not sure
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: which ones you're talking about. Question, well, I'm going to
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: ask you to look at a list that should be
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: in your folder. Judge Nathan, please direct the government witness
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and me before the witness. Bobby Sternum, I will. I
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: just want to get to the number, Judge. I apologize.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I apologize, Judge. I gave my copy. Question, I'm going
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: to ask you what's been marked as defense K7. It
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: should be tabbed in your binder. The court tab 7, counsel.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Bobby Sternum, K7. Answer, okay, K7. The court, my binder,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: does not have K7. Kate, I don't have a K7 either.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Bobby Sternum, I apologize about that, Your Honor. I do
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: have paper copies. May I hand them up? Judge Nathan,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: you may. Bobby Sternum, I apologize about that. Question, I'm
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: just going to ask you to take a look at
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: the list, and I'm going to ask you to look
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: at number 21. Answer, yes. Question, is that a movie
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: you were in? Answer, no. Question, no. Number three, is
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: that a movie you were in? Answer, yes. Question, and
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: number 29, is that a movie that you were in? Answer, no.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that movie is. Question, are you
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: familiar with the IMBD system? Answer, IMBD. Question, yes. Answer, yes. Question,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: and if those were listed in your IMDB, would those
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: indicate that you were involved with those productions? prosecution objection
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: your honor judge nathan grounds prosecution foundation judge nathan sustained
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: question do you look at your listings to see whether
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: they are accurate or not answer no question you also
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: starred in a reality show didn't you answer yes question
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: and that reality show had to do with individuals who
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: wanted to make it in hollywood correct answer yes question
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: and what period of time were you involved in that Answer,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I don't recall exactly, but I believe it was probably
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: about 19 years ago. Question, 19 years ago? Answer, probably
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: around then. Question, and in light of your visa that
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: you had, you were committed to work in the industry, correct? Answer,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a visa at the time. I had
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: not moved to the United States yet. Question, so it
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: was after? You did the reality show that you then
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: moved to the United States? Answer, at some point later. Question.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: And when you moved to the United States, it was
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: at that time that you were in the music business? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: And the purpose of your visa at the time was
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: to permit you to move to the United States to
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: work in the music industry, correct? Answer. Yes. Question. You
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: are no longer in the music industry, correct? Answer. I'm
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: actually a music therapist. Question, a music therapist? Answer, yes. Question,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: are you licensed as a music therapist? Answer, no. I'm
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: not licensed in anything. Question, but you hold yourself out
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: to be a music therapist, correct? Answer, yes. Question, at
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: some point, did you begin a foundation? Answer, yes. Question,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: without using the name, what was the foundation that was
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: for women with substance abuse, correct? Answer, it was actually
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: a foundation for women who have trauma and substance use disorder. Question,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: and it was a residential environment for women to live in, correct? Answer,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: it's actually no longer a foundation. It was dissolved, but
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: it was a residential facility, yes. Question, and you launched
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: that in approximately 2019, correct? Answer, approximately. Question, and there
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: are videos about it, aren't there? Answer, most likely yes. Question,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and you had a partner or another woman with whom
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: you worked and produced some videos for the foundation, correct? Answer, yes. Question,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: and it was launched in 2019 and it no longer exists, correct? Answer,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I think it was 2019, but I don't know the
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: exact date. But you're correct, it no longer exists. All right, folks,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. All the information that goes
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.