Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.313: Luxury Skincare Inspired By Nature & Fortified By Science Ft. Irene Forte

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E.313: Luxury Skincare Inspired By Nature & Fortified By Science Ft. Irene Forte · Skin Anarchy

• 0:11
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• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Speaker Anarchy.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is Ekta, and I have a wonderful guest with me today.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really love her line.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I've been using very, very regularly in my routine, and I'm super excited to be hosting her.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Irene Forte, who is the founder of her um self-named skincare line.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Irene.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy to host you.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's my honor.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to get started and learn all about you and how you got involved in the skincare industry.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And just I know that your line has a lot of science and a lot of research behind it.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love for you to um walk us down memory lane and just kind of give us the background.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I got into the industry a little bit by by chance.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was working for my family's business, which is hospitality, for almost nine years.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I was actually doing HR and learning and development.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: So something totally unrelated, but I was always extremely entrepreneurial.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: And uh when the chance came to look after the spas for the hotel company on the side, I kind of jumped on that opportunity.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: And after working with the spas for a number of years, I kind of wanted to really unify the company spas because all the spa managers were using different product lines, and I wanted there to be one brand.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I started looking for an Italian brand because I'm Italian, even though I sound very English, and um our spas are predominantly based in Italy, and uh I wanted something that was natural but not naive, it had to be scientifically formulated, and I know a lot of fanders say, and uh then I couldn't find something that was the right fit, and so I decided to do it, uh do a line, and that's kind of a little bit what happened to me.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had no intention for this to be a full-time thing, I um was doing it on the side, and so I decided to formulate uh a skincare line for the spas, um, which was natural using ingredients grown at our organic farm in Sicily, but that was really uh backed by science.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And in order to do that, I had to find a fantastic doctor to help me formulate.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I came across Dottoressa Francesca Ferri, um, who's from Trent in the north of Italy, and I'd met with a number of labs, but when I met Dr.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Ferry, I knew that she was the one she's been formulating for over 35 years, has done a lot of work on psoriasis, dermatitis, and most recently has been awarded the equivalent of an Italian knighthood for her work on epigenetic modulation.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: So she's she brings a wealth of experience and really ensures uh that our products today are backed by science.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so we partnered.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: It took us three years to formulate, and we tried and tested the products with the spa professionals, who are definitely a tough act to please.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we came out with this line that was really inspired by the Mediterranean using ingredients grown at our farm in Sicily, uh, but backed by science, thanks to Dr.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Ferry.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so our formulas are all clinically proven to be efficacious.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: We've done hydration, anti-wrinkle, antioxidant trials.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the third really important point is that they're experiential.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, being born out of a spa environment, the fragrance and organoleptic properties of the products were incredibly important.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't want to use essential oils to fragrance our products like a lot of natural brands do, because they're highly allergenic.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: So instead, with Dr.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Ferry, we created this special lab-formulated allergen screen fragrance.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: And to prove that that was kind of the right route, we then certified the products for sensitive skin.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: So they're very experiential while still being kind on the skin, which is quite rare in the skincare world.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then my last kind of pillar was really sustainability.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to build a brand with sustainability at its heart, and so we're a B Corp uh certified company.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's yeah, no, I I love everything that you mentioned because you know, the brand, I I always like to say with like beauty and skin, especially skincare lines, you know, it's not the same as beauty, right?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the same as makeup.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you can tell the quality of something as soon as you use it, or it's been a week, or you know, you can your skin will not lie.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, um, one of my favorite things I think about your line is that it's it's every single product is a very luxurious experience.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I've had personally.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and that's something that I think um is very, very hard to master, that balance between true luxury in, you know, skincare products and then the science.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I'm I'm really excited to hear that you have such a strong um scientific background, you know, somebody with such a strong background, um, really kind of behind the line, because that's very rare.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's very rare.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, for example, I'll tell you, I'm obsessed with almost every product.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like every single product I've uh really, really tested.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've really enjoyed it.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even your toner, like the mist, and you know, just the way it sits with my skin.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's really unique, you know, it's unique.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a it's a line that doesn't irritate, it just calms my skin.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something I really wanted to ask you is that what were some of the pillars in terms of formulation that you really wanted to focus on when you were coming up with all of the products?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know that, for example, you use pomegranate a lot in your formula.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to learn more about the ingredients that you picked and why.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, uh one of our premises is as you say, to be kind on the skin, because I think more and more people have uh sensitive skin.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's either from using overtly harsh ingredients, from doing uh slightly aggressive treatments, or just from lifestyle pollution, so the environment.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wanted to create a range that was experiential, but that could work for everyone because it was kind on the skin.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: So there are ingredients that are extremely important are things like pro-vitamin B5, so panthanol, vitamin E.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: We destabilize vitamin E, which is incredibly uh uh prominent throughout throughout our products.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um we also use alloy leaf juice, which comes from our farm, and a lot of omega-rich oils, so omega-3, six, and nine that are very important to kind of protect and nourish the skin.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then I so those are a nice base for us.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then I also wanted to use ingredients that we knew were clinically proven to work.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: So biobase peptides, we have an ingredient that we've trademarked called myoxinol, which comes from hibiscus seed peptides.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And this ingredient's clinically proven to visibly reduce wrinkles.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I mean, hibiscus has been dubbed the Botox plant.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: We also work with prickly pear polysaccharides, which are prickly pear you find throughout uh Sicily.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, this is uh a clinically proven anti-inflammatory anti-reninous ingredient, but also kind of the plant version of hyaluronic acid because it's a it's a cactus plant, so it's it stores water in a similar way, let's say.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you know, not to skimp out on things like hyaluronic acid, we use different molecular weight bands of hyaluronic acid.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: We've got ultra-low molecular weight band, um, the normal weight band, but also the low weight band that creates below the surface hydration ceramides that we naturally have in our skin.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of ingredients that we naturally have in our skin that reduce as we age.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: So a real mix of Sicilian Mediterranean ingredients with ingredients that we know are really important for skin kindness, and then kind of those clinically proven ingredients that we know will make our products achieve, you know, anti-wrinkle results, hydration results, antioxidant results in clinical trials, basically.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what's interesting, Irene?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I recently discovered this, um, you know, after reading papers, I was reading many, many papers about the just Mediterranean um, I guess, ecosystem and the environment and the in that region of the world.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um I really learned that there's so many um just I guess secrets that are there for the endogenous species um that are found in that in that region.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, one of the big hallmarks that I I keep reading about, and even in the scientific literature, is that what you just said, this idea of these um, you know, the plants and the and the wildlife, it has an ability to just I guess adapt.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, you said mentioned the water portion, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: With the prickly pear.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, the in the plants and the endogenous species are able to really kind of adapt to a very unique environment.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the Mediterranean is just it's very unique in the sense that there have been many volcanoes there.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know with Sicily, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of hidden secrets in Sicily, you know.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I think that, you know, the more I dive into the literature and and the even the science, I I'm fig I'm I'm figuring out that there's a lot of hidden gems that can come from that region of the world.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about, you know, um why you chose to stick to that region.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know that um, you know, there are some Hallmark ingredients, but like what are some things that you notice are very unique to like, you know, just Sicily, like in terms of endogenous species and stuff?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Sicily has incredibly fertile land.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's it it has a culture of farming, so so do other areas in in Italy as well.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and so there are so many amazing fruits and and vegetables and plants and and plants also that you don't find as much in the rest of Italy, such as um prickly pear.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the the reason why I was also extremely interested in kind of Mediterranean ingredients is because uh the Mediterranean, it's no secret that the Mediterranean diet is considered the the healthiest in the world.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all about you know the highest quality ingredients that are seasonal.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's really it's a simple diet, but one that promotes longevity.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not about unsustainable eating habits or a fatty quick fix, let's say.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I really believe that skincare should follow this same kind of ethos.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about using overtly harsh ingredients at high percentages that are going to rip layers off your skin.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's really about balancing your skin microbiome, supplying the skin with all the nutrients that it needs, you know, fatty acids, uh, vitamins, uh, and also other ingredients that we know the skin that loses over time, or uh elements of the skin that diminish over time.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and so that's kind of really what I sought to achieve in creating the line.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also why skin kindness is so important and not doing anything that's gonna damage that skin microbiome, really.
• 13:12
  unknown: Right.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: I digress a little bit there, sorry, but I I I believe in Mediterranean diet for skin.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, I totally understand.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I completely uh second that I absolutely love the Mediterranean diet, both for skin and for my stomach.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna lie.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I it's a wonderful, wonderful area of the world.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I actually um I don't know if you've been to Volcano, but Volcano is one of my favorite islands, and I love the sulfur bath.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a there's a natural sulfur um pit there, and people go there just specifically to like, you know, bathe in that and let their skin soak in that.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I completely understand, you know, when you say that there's there's a lot of value there.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I, you know, I want to actually talk to you about um this intersection between science and nature, because I know that that's a huge, I think, uh it's a huge task and it's a huge feat to accomplish.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I very few brands are able to get there.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So as an entrepreneur and as somebody, you know, just trying to create a line that was truly efficacious, um, what were some of the things that you came across when it came to merging the science with the beautiful aesthetic of your line?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, just obviously appealing to consumers that are just interested in, you know, just skincare, right?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes they don't really look into the science, they're just they're interested in the brand.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So what were some of the, you know, share some memories with us as you were crafting the line.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think what I learned pretty quickly is that not everything in nature is good for you.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: So think of uh take poison ivy.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think to achieve what I I learned to achieve, you know, the maximum benefits of nature or to take the best of nature, you really need science.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, that's something that kind of Dr.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Ferry instilled in me uh pretty pretty quickly.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, the examples of essential ores, essential ores are considered natural.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um they're considered 100% natural, natural brands use them to fragrance their products, but essential ores contain uh fragrance allergens such as citinel, pharnesol, linanol, and and these can cause skin irritation.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: People, pregnant women, for example, are not allowed to use products with hypersensitive essential oils.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just you know one example.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I was a bit disappointed in a way with the natural market because it's it's quite strict and it's like, well, you know, they're quite anti-fragrance, but you can actually do clean allergen-screened fragrance.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, they because it's 100% natural, they tend to go down the route of essential laws, but actually these can cause a lot of problems.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, so I I mean when I was researching and looking, I I was I was frustrated by the the way that the natural market was.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's changed actually quite a lot uh more recently.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um but basically, I mean, what I just learned is that you can't get the best out of nature without science, and that nature can supply you with amazing efficacious ingredients, but you need science to get to get the best of the ingredients.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, like we use a lot of bio-based peptides, such as the hibiscus seed peptides that are that anti-wrinkle ingredient I mentioned.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: We use green PP peptides that give elasticity to the skin, but without the science, you can't you can't get that that extract, if you see what I mean.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and also science tells you at what percentage to use the natural ingredients or at what point you're going to have the most effective skincare with minimum side effects, what to mix together, so what ingredients go together.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And these are things that are incredibly important when trying to formulate an efficacious product.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think often, you know, brands just mix a million ingredients together that are active ingredients just to say that they have that many ingredients, or you know, put the highest percentage possible just to say a very high percentage, but really um it's about mixing ingredients together to exact same standards to ensure that you're gonna get the maximum benefits.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's dosing, it's dosing.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I mean, like what everything you described is is this idea of really knowing how to dose ingredients, whether they're natural or lab synthesized.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's a huge point.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you brought that up.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's I see a lot of clean, you know, I'm gonna put clean quotes because that's really what it is, is you know, clean skincare brands.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh yeah, you know, we've got all the botanicals in this one product.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking to myself, I mean, is that okay?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do they really work together?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Are you just putting things in a bottle?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so that's a very important point that you brought up about this idea of, you know, you have to make sure that the percentages and the concentrations are at a specific level.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I um I've mentioned this before on the podcast.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I published a paper very long ago about, you know, natural ingredients and their um efficacy against some of the most deadly pathogens, you know, when it comes to bacterial strains.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what I was one of the biggest things I learned through that paper was that, you know, sometimes with natural ingredients, less is a lot less is definitely more, you know.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you yeah, so like if you like I was like, for example, I was um treating like one of the strains was like this mycobacterium.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I'm sure you know mycobacterium, you know, it's usually involved with TB and stuff.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I was treating the strain and um one of the extracts I found that if I put it in higher concentrations, it didn't work.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if I put but but if you put it in lower concentrations, it's incredibly efficacious.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a very, very, very solid point, and I'm so glad you brought that up.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited you're talking about this too, because brands, I mean, everyone's like, but at what percentage is that at?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because consumers think that them that more is better, but but we do trials on our ingredients in vitro trials to to look at how effective they are at different at different percentages.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And as you said, certain percentages above a certain point, they stop working.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you keep that in mind in formula.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very, very rare thing to see in brands that are doing, like, I guess, clean skincare the right way.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's something that I think needs to become more prominent in this industry because, as you know, you know, this word is just thrown around, you know.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people throw around the idea of clean, organic beauty.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, that doesn't mean that you have to compromise the science, you know, that doesn't mean that you have to you have to compromise all of the ideas of, you know, dosing and and you know, efficacy and just all that stuff.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna rant too much, but I like what you're doing.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's clearly working, you know, in all of your products.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I want to actually ask you, because I'm not kidding when I tell you, you have the best lip balm I have ever in my life experienced.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, your pistachio lip balm is like I can't live without it.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: I literally take it everywhere.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so tell me, uh why did you choose pistachio and what are the properties that you're looking for in this lip balm?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like literally like velvet for your lips.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like for everyone listening, it's literally it's velvet.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: It feels so good.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we as I said, we work always with a lot of omega rich oils, so predominantly three, six, and nine, which are fantastic ingredients to hydrate, nourish, and and and protect the skin.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so pistachio is rich in omegas.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's also got a high percentage of vitamin E, but in that product, we also have olive oil that comes from the farm, which is rich in polyphenols, vitamin E as well.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we have um wild.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Mango butter, which is a clinically clinically proven ingredient to improve lip quality.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then coupled with those omegas, uh kind of omega-rich oils that say we also have vitamin E, stabilized vitamin E.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, as I said, it's a favorite ingredient of ours.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Again, a really nice ingredient to replenish natural levels of vitamin E, act as an antioxidant, um, but also soothe and protect the skin.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And um, in there, there's also olive oil fractions, uh, which is which kind of the part that's usually discarded, and not many um brands work with olival fractions, uh, but they're a great regenerating ingredient.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a combination, I think, of all the ingredients there that really work to soothe uh dry lips, but also help replenish them really and protect them.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what's crazy is ever since I've been using it, I've not used any kind of lip exfoliating product at all.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't needed to.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like my lips, like you know how people are like, oh, you want to like get the you know dry skin off your lips?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I have never, I haven't had that problem since I started using this one, you know, and it really goes to show you like again.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I mean it's it just it just goes to show you, like, you know, ingredients put together in the right way, like you can really create products.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people talk, I mean, a lot about in this industry.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I hear a lot about you know, minimalism and you know, less is more and all this, but it's like if you have a high quality product and it's backed by the science, you can really minimize the other products that you're utilizing in your routine.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't need a lip scrub if you have a really good bomb, like you know what I mean, like a good lip bomb.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now I want to talk to you about your awesome uh toners as well, actually, because the toner mist is like my new favorite obsession.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is like I don't know where I was and what I was doing, but I I was not on the bandwagon with toner mists, and I really, really love this product.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love for you to speak to us about toners and like what you were going for with this specific type of product because I know that it's often overlooked in many routines.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love for you to speak on that.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we actually it started without the spritz, this toner, and then we introduced the spritz.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you're talking about the helicresmora, because that's the yes.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, it I mean, toners are really important, as everyone probably knows, to balance the pH of the skin, uh, but also to help the penetration of ingredients to come and also to have kind of more astringent qualities.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I always say that they're also great to actually remove any residue from the tap water once you've you've cleansed your face with a cleanser.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: This toner has amazing ingredients.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's like really good for more mature skin, dry, dehydrated skin, but it also has some brightening um ingredients.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's got um helicresm flour, which uh obviously is obvious from the name, which is a clinically proven ingredient to kind of brighten the skin, lighten the skin, act as an astringent as well.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: We've got the hydrating hyaluronic acid in there.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: We've also got saccharide isomerate, which is another hermectant, so that draws in water, uh, important to keep the skin hydrated.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And another nice ingredient to pinpoint is white wine that actually comes from this vineyard in Sicily called Di Giovanna.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's an organic white wine that I used to drink that I got Dr.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Clery to test, or that I still drink, to be honest.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's very rich in prethicillins, so it's a super antioxidant.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there we have a nice combination of ingredients that are really going to hydrate the skin, uh, brighten and the skin too.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's great to reapply throughout the day too, as a as a as a mist with the spritz, let's say, also because it has these nice um hermectants in it, but also just it's very refreshing and it smells delicious.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, yes, it does.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: It really does.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful mist for everything.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I even use it um sometimes, like if I have a little bit of makeup on, I'll, you know, just spritz it on my face.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, very nice.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's delicate, it's it's not overwhelming.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times um I've noticed that spray-on products leave this almost film on your face.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I've never enjoyed that.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's something I uh, you know, it deters me as a consumer, but this is definitely not like that.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really like that you put it um in this formula and this like packaging because it's um it's great, you know, it's great for yeah, refreshing your face, but also like even as a makeup setting for those of us with drier skin, it's a really nice um spray for that.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's interesting what you mentioned though, about the wine, the white wine, because I know that um one of the my another one of my favorite products in your line is the white wine body cream.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it is wonderful.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a huge, like you can I can immediately tell, you know, when I use that, like after, you know, a shower versus other things like body butter, because my skin just looks so luminous and so just happy.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to talk to us about this white wine ingredient and what is the real secret here, because I'm starting to realize that um grapes in the Mediterranean region have a lot more um, you know, good efficacious ingredients inside that I, you know, that I'm just learning about now.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to talk to us about that.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I mean that this product is a really nice, let's say lightweight, kind of emulsion style cream, which still leaves your skin extremely hydrated.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's a product that I really thought of, especially for the for the summer, when you don't want something too rich and and and thick.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it has this amazing antioxidant-rich, uh, organic, vegan white wine.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I don't know, the grapes in Sicily, well, everything is very special in Sicily because of the fertile soil.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't have, I can't really, I'm not, I'm not a huge wine connoisseur.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: I just know the quality of the of the wine ingredient from from how when Dr.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Ferry tested it.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: But great antioxidant, which obviously protects the skin and ultimately promotes cellular cellular sorry, renewal, but I'm it's always the combination of ingredients as well.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: So this product has omega-rich oils, which you'll have learnt by now is one of our favorite things to put in our skincare.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so again, omegas 3, 6, and 9, which come from olive oil, sweet almond oil, but also grapeseed oil.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's also uh pro-vitamin B5 again in this product and vitamin E, so very soothing, hydrating ingredients, and we've got hermectant, we've got hyaluronic acid in there.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you'll notice that with our body care products, we have all the same uh ingredients that we have in our face, so same quality.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: I really didn't want to skimp out in the body care, wanted to create skincare for the body.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so you should see fantastic results from from our body care products in in little time, I hope.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, it's uh it's what it's literally the only moisturizer like for my legs and stuff that I use because it's very light, but it's very, very effective.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, you can definitely tell because you know, I think when with body care, it's very tricky because I think people think that with body care, you can kind of skimp out, like you, you know, like you said, with the ingredients and not really worry about it.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not true.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you, you know, for everyone listening, the next time you get out of the shower and put on your daily body lotion, whatever it is your routine is, you should notice um how long that, you know, that original, like hydrated look, how long that lasts, because that's what I'm noticing is the key here with body products.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: There are some products that are going to leave your skin hydrated and maintained for like a long period of time.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there are a lot of products that will not do that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that I'm really starting to catch on to in the industry, is that everyone's coming out with body products, but half of them are just, I don't know, it's like they're fluff, you know, like they're not nearly the quality that you put on your face.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's true.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's very true.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: But you know what?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Body care is the hardest to sell.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, unfortunately, still, I don't think the that consumers are quite there yet with or quite ready to put to buy expensive body care products, or to be honest.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I mean, that's that's uh that's sad, but we should because skin is skin.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a lot of skin is skin.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: We do have a lot of it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I you know, I want to talk to you a little bit about the business side of things because I know that um you recently went through kind of a like rebranding with your packaging and um just the business side of getting this line um out there and really in front of consumers, like what are some hurdles or some some things you've had to deal with, you know, from the business end when it comes to because I know the skincare industry is just it's saturated, right?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it must be difficult to um really kind of cater your products to the consumers.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can talk to us about that.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh to be honest, I I didn't think I was going to do this this full-time, it kind of happened organically.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I I launched for the spas uh while still having my full-time role at the hotels, and then um I thought I was only going to do it for the spas whilst carrying on doing HR and learning and development.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: But when COVID hit and um I lost all my spa business because all the spas shut down for a year and a half, and that was really my bread and butter.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: I had I had launched with Netta Porter a bit by chance with a global exclusive, but but but really my business was sparse.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um I realized that either I was going to have to quit or that I had to take on some external investment and and find a way to diversify or you know look at the business in an in another way.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I managed to secure investment.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: I left my full-time role at the hotels.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: I now consult uh for the hotel spas.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um, we launched with about 50 retailers over the last the COVID period until now.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I decided that it was important to kind of have a multi-channel approach.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: So go for online retailers, uh, brick and mortar, uh, and also focus on on my D2C, which I'd never really done because I wasn't really a digitally native brand.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: I did something for spas.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I've I've learned a lot along along the way.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've also I'm very pleased, as you mentioned, that I've been able to kind of repackage the line because uh initially, you know, I did what I could, but minimum order quantities are incredibly high.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to do something a bit more bespoke, um, I just I just wasn't in a position when I launched to do certain things that I've been itching to do.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: So as we secured more retailers and as we've kind of grown, um, I've been able to do, you know, to launch refillable packaging, um, have a recycling scheme for the refill components, do slightly more special things with our boxes.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: So we use the same 100% recycled fiber papers that we always did, but now we have these watercolor liners that are paintings of our organic farm in Sissy.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: So growth has allowed us to be a bit more flexible in terms of packaging.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now, how I run the business, uh it's a startup, and um it's uh there's a lot of crazy stuff that happens in a startup, so a lot of things go wrong along the way.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I've learned to be extremely resilient uh and and to adapt.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and I've learned about an industry that I wasn't in, to be honest, um, which has been fun.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I I you know I've built an amazing team of uh a small but amazingly dynamic team of people um that have been have been growing it with me, but our sales are up 300% on on last year, and we're really congratulations.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: We're really starting to to get to the next phase, I think, of the of the business.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, first it was real startup, still it's still very much startup, but I definitely feel like now we're in a kind of a new phase.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um business.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're really hitting.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, consumers don't lie, right?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can tell by people that come back.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I always talk to brands, and you know, off the air, I hear questions from smaller brands, like, well, how do we get more consumers?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you gotta have a quality product.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way to get around that.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all the marketing in the world, all of the even with clinical trials, like some brands go crazy with that.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a good product, that's what's gonna get them to come back.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, that's why I I really wanted to highlight every single one of your products because they're all so wonderful and they all are just unique and they serve a purpose.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something I think that's very hard to do for a skincare line because, as you know, many things overlap, right?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, oftentimes people will have these redundancies in their lines.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I I'm just like, you know, why are you doing that?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're just creating more products that do the same thing.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really happy to see that your line does not do that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: You have beautiful products that are just, you know, they're standalone and they do what they do, and that's their their job, you know.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have five of them doing the same thing.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really cool.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, but it's true, it's about having in the in the end, it's difficult to do volume as a small brand.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to rely on on repeat purchase in the end, on on customer consumers actually loving your product because otherwise it's very difficult to get anywhere.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: And also, you know, pitching to all these retailers that get millions of emails a week from from brands trying to get into their stores.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: So if you manage to get product in their hands, the product has to be good, or they're not gonna take you.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: So so there's also that that challenge, I think.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, it's like the elevator pitch for a product, it has to be very good.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I I think that that's definitely something I actually recently interviewed David Chung, who was the founder of Pharmacy, the brand pharmacy.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you um and and David was talking to me because he now owns a manufacturing um lab and he was speaking about this idea of you know, there are so many small brands, and um, you know, in terms of the amount that you must order, you know, your your quantity is something that people really struggle with.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, a lot of brand owners don't have, you know, the money for what 10,000 uh units or something.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he was speaking about that, and he said that that's often um something that people it ends up making them kind of go away from this this journey of being an entrepreneur in the beauty space, even though they might have a great idea, you know?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: So this is something that I really actually wanted to talk to you about.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Was that, you know, being a brand that is, I you know, I consider you you guys are a global brand.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the challenges, I guess, uh from a business standpoint that you came across, whether it's through manufacturing or distribution, like was there, you know, was there any challenges or were there any challenges or no?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think one of the biggest challenges for me was uh packaging.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: So as as we said, minimum order quantities are about 10,000 for anything that looks half decent or that's remotely bespoke.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: So when I was launching, I I I didn't I couldn't make the minimum order quantity to get my products um the colour of the gray jars injected.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um so when you actually spray on top, I found I found a supply that would like spray on top of these standard white jars.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what I quickly learned is that when you spray on top, they might start chipping and um there might be some some issues with quality.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, the supply I used to spray my lids forgot to top coat them.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: They were six months behind, especially because I was a small brand, the money I was paying them was insignificant to their their um wider business, and that's always a challenge because you're when you're not considered um important, then you kind of always get pushed to the bottom of the of the of the pile.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: And uh when I when I launched the the the the paint, the minute um cream touched the lids, paint was coming off.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um so I had to, I I figured that out within two weeks.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: I had to recall all the lids that we'd sent to SPARS and the e-commerce orders that we'd done after doing like three press launches, one in Germany, one in the UK, and one in Italy.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to manually on the 24th of December, because we launched in December actually, I um I collected the lids and went to our warehouse that was in Glasgow and manually changed all the lids and then sent individual lids to all the customers that had um ordered.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but we just we just had so many quality issues uh with packaging.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um finally now I'm with a serious supplier and I've done bigger order uh orders, but you know, there's still always problems.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: And without having a massive team that can do quality control or you know, having people on the ground, it's extremely uh difficult.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think the other the with distribution, for some reason, I think I got lucky by having one retailer, which then tends to open doors to others and then you know opens more doors, and and and so distribution has been something that I've found easier, but I also think, especially with our new packaging and and and the physical product itself, that that that helps.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: The minute I can get product into a buyer's hands, which is not always easy, they've said yes, but it's about getting the product into their hands.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then I find the digital side extremely difficult.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I it's it's definitely you know a new world we're dealing with with consumers in terms of you know just how people shop and what they shop for.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it, I don't know, it's it's it's kind of crazy for me to see um this transition, you know, to a fully e-commerce model for beauty products because I'm starting to see that that a lot of people, a lot of brands are going towards just okay, you know, we're just gonna go to social media and we're gonna push our brand and hopefully we get a lot of people to, you know, buy it.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: But then you're talking to me about, you know, this transition between being a spa-based brand into a more, you know, direct to consumer.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, what what are some of the things that you really had to kind of, I guess, adapt to when it came to that?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know that spas have their own, you know, definitely their own list of things that they go down when they're looking at what kind of products to use, right?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um what's what were some of the differences, if any, that you had to like kind of figure out?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think the worst thing, but I guess it meant I got taken seriously, is that for spas to be a successful spa brand, you need a huge amount of products because you need to be able to do a series of different facials, different body treatments, um, cater to all skin types.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I launched 26 products at once, um which from a from a retail marketing perspective is completely mad.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: And if I could go back, you know, I would have launched one product, put money behind it, launched another one a few months later, put money behind the launch, you know, maybe launch three or four in the first year.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh so that so that was the I think that was the difficulty.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, how do you translate these products that are great in a in a spa environment, but don't necessarily aren't clearly differentiated with unique selling points for retail, because retail you really need each product needs to really have its story, its reason for being, which I've I've now been.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: able to do with the new packaging, but initially it was it was quite challenging.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then just just generally I'm I don't have a digital background.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I came from I understand luxury, I came from hospitality.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: Hospitality traditionally is not very strong on digital.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: So so it's it's been a learning curve.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: But it's very difficult I think to compete and to get uh through all the noise on digital especially with a product like mine that's a a luxury product that has a certain price point.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's also very tactile, very experiential.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: So on in uh in an online environment it's it's it's very difficult to convince people to make that first purchase.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost uh in a way I think we use our e-com for for repeat purchase.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, I can imagine because it's yeah it's it's definitely hard to get past that price point where you know consumers look at a price and they're just automatically like well do I really need well you got to look at the quality you know you got to look at the quality and and like you said you know being a spa brand from the beginning the quality component is definitely there.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I try my best on our podcast to like explain to our listeners that if you invest in a brand that is doing skin health right and they have the right pillars in their you know in their science model and their business model, that's worth it.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than you going to a local store and purchasing the same amount you know in terms of money, you're purchasing multiple products which you the but they're mass you know mass uh produced, right?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the quality that's what we have to really focus on is quality and how to figure out what is good product versus mediocre.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that I think consumers are finally starting to I well I hope gravitate towards is this idea of luxury is not scary.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know it's not for all of the super rich people in the world.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: No luxury in my eyes at least luxury brands um really kind of bring forward this new approach this elevated approach to our skin health and I think that's definitely worth investing in you know so um I definitely understand what you're saying with that with that hurdle.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you know I just want to wrap up the interview Irene I I really uh you know like I said I'm a huge fan of your line every single product is wonderful I'm a huge fan of masks by the way so I love your mask um the one that I've been using uh I believe it's the lavender and rosemary face mask I am obsessed with this one so um you know I really love everything but I want you to um help give some advice to all of the you know new brand founders out there that really want to make their brand um successful they want to create a global brand any words of wisdom that you can offer of course um I think definitely you need to have a reason for being a a story an authentic an honest story because there's so many brands out there right now that uh it's an oversaturated market so unless you have a a a clear story point of difference um I I wouldn't I wouldn't get going until you've got that and then um I think it's about finding as many people in the industry to support you to give you advice uh to connect you because a lot of it in the end is about connections especially with retailers um that will get distribution and then just perseverance and it's not going to be easy it's never an easy ride for any brand founder despite what maybe it looks like from the outside so I think it's just about being extremely resilient and learning to adapt and change your model and and to take criticism I think are are some key points.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that that's very very good advice and I hope everyone listening I hope you guys have learned a lot here from Irene her line is truly everything that we've said here it's beautiful the from the packaging to the formulations to the way that it sits on your skin the way your skin responds so I really urge you guys to go check it out.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: I will tag everything in the concept art but you know again you have to find quality products you have to because at the end of the day your skin is an organ you know and you can't skimp on good quality versus not in in terms of ingredients in terms of formulation so I always urge you guys anyone listening please go for the brands that are doing it right Irene definitely has made one of those brands uh in that category so um I'm a huge fan I love every product in the line I know you guys will too check it out leave us some comments and feedback if you have any questions for Irene's team definitely leave them in the comment section and I will definitely pass them along but Irene this has been so lovely hosting you thank you so much for your time thank you so much it's been so nice to speak to someone that's so knowledgeable so I've really enjoyed it.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh thank you so much and everyone listening I will be back next time hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts brand founders industry leaders authors all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 49:58
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• 50:06
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• 50:12
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• 50:22
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• 50:28
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• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.