Latest / Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza / Ep.87 - Why Zero Parents Complained When Headmaster Jason Hebert Destroyed Students' Phones | Phone-Free Schools | Parenting Courage | Screen Addiction Solutions

Transcript

Ep.87 - Why Zero Parents Complained When Headmaster Jason Hebert Destroyed Students' Phones | Phone-Free Schools | Parenting Courage | Screen Addiction Solutions · Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza

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  I don't want to know where my kids are because if I do, they
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  don't know they're exercising their freedom like they can't
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  exercise their freedom. You have a watchful eye over
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  you, knowing everywhere you are at all times.
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  You're never on your own, so to speak.
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  I want them to be on their own always.
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  This is Virtuous leaders, the podcast for based Catholics who
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  will speak truth, do good or die trying.
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  Here's the show you you were in the NFL for a couple years
• 0:39
  studied while studying art at Rice.
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  You were playing college there. I just love that combination
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  which you are actually a really good artist and then now you.
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  Nor a football player, but keep going.
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  Well, now you're the headmaster of Western Academy, which is the
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  the coolest school in Texas and as far as I know, the best.
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  And I've seen, I've seen in a lot of different schools.
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  And you recently introduced A seemingly controversial policy.
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  If you could just summarize that for people that haven't heard it
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  yet. Yeah, the summary is this, we
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  have, we've always had a no tolerance policy for smartphones
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  or any digital device being on campus.
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  But because we've had numerous violations of that repeatedly,
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  we now have if they smartphone or digital device shows up on
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  canvas, we will destroy it and the boy will be suspended.
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  If it happens a second time, he will be expelled from school.
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  How are you going to destroy it? I bought, I bought one of those
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  metal scrap grinders, a little mini one that's with a big with
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  a crank. And so you know, you know, one
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  of my guilty pleasures every now and then I like watching the
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  videos where the teeth come and they they grind up the metal.
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  I. Just yeah, yeah.
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  By the power of those things. Yeah, I know he's.
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  So I just bought a little mini 1.
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  It is the any idea of like the child being witness to it or
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  having to press the button himself as like composites?
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  Moment it would turn the crane to go to the.
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  Turn the OK, OK, OK. Yeah, to watch each centimeter
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  disappear with every turn. Yeah.
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  So I mean, but we, we thought about it and I think we'll
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  figure it out as we go. I just know this it's not
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  surviving the incident so. Good.
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  OK, So what what led up to this? Because that, that's pretty
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  dramatic, right? Yeah, no, it, it is dramatic.
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  This I guess would let it, this is a long time coming.
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  The perennial thing that shows up every year, multiple times a
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  year, kids get into trouble with their phones.
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  You know, if it's not at school, it's the same group of boys at
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  home exchange doing horrible things on chat groups and
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  whatnot, snapping terrible things to one another.
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  You can't. It's very difficult to separate
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  that from school 'cause it's the same boys doing it.
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  They're all aware of what's been said and what's been done and
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  what's been shared. And so there's this perennial
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  phone problem every year. Back to school night.
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  Don't get your kids a phone. Don't do it.
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  Don't do it, don't do it. These are the reasons.
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  These are the reasons. It just keeps happening, you
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  know, and I don't anticipate this is going to dramatically
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  decrease it, but it just keeps having to keep putting the
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  phones in the kids hands. And then we'll admit openly to
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  me, I know it's bad for him. I wish he didn't.
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  Could you guys just take it from like what is happening right?
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  So that this so this has been going on for years and years.
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  At some point, I think last year, it started to become a
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  more apparent to us that these boys are being told by their
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  parent. A lot of parents just put in
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  your backpack, you know, take it to school or they're just doing
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  it themselves. One of the.
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  Other even though that's against the policy that's already, even
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  though it's. The policy.
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  So it's like, OK, we've got a real this disunity of ideas
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  here, right. So the, the, the, the who's
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  saying what to do what? I don't know.
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  I do know this, it seems to be in my sons who've confirmed
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  this, who don't have phones, but are aware of it that not only my
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  sons, multiple boys have covered.
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  Yeah, of course, a lot of people bring them.
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  A lot of people bring them. A lot of people bring them.
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  Then most recently, and this is not the first time I've ever,
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  but we at the end of last year were like, what?
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  Last year ended on a pretty tough note.
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  I I am, you know, the couple boys got in big trouble just
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  because it started to get so just just normative that one of
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  the boys just had his phone out around the fire pit.
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  You know, I just like, yeah, this is just what we do.
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  It's after school. Who care?
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  It just kept creeping and creeping and creeping and me,
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  like, we're not listening, right.
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  So finally, at the end of last year, we say, why don't we just
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  do a policy to destroy these things, right?
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  And they were like, well, you know, let's read, you know,
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  we'll think about it, talk about it.
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  I was, I was ready to push the button right then.
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  You know, you know, my personality, sometimes I need to
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  be like, you know, talk back down a little bit.
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  But the the. So yeah, I maybe exercise too
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  much prudence in that in that instance.
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  But at some point this year, early this year, we had an
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  incident on a bus going to a sporting event.
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  Somebody showed a video in the back of the bus on his phone
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  that shouldn't have been there. Another mom was very upset.
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  Multiple moms are very upset because multiple I saw this bad
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  did this this a very violent video.
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  I'm sure everybody knows which one it is, is very popular, very
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  mainstream and we're like we're done.
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  It's just over. It's not they're not listening.
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  Nobody's listening, you know, So he, I'll give you an opportunity
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  to, to listen. You know, we're serious about
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  this and it's not because we're Luddites, but say no, no, no.
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  This is the repeated thing that always shows up and it's highly
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  problematic in your son's life, demonstrable in his behavior and
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  confirmed by you parent who I'm talking to like the the bottom
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  line, everybody knows it, everybody knows it.
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  So I'm just I'm just helping facilitate what everybody and I
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  think confirmed by the fact that like the the tidal wave of
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  puddles positive response. I can't commit like you're going
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  to ask then. I've never received this many
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  emails of thank yous and sometimes page long thank yous
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  and parents coming up me regularly, thank you, thank you,
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  thank you. Even parents whose sons have the
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  phones, you know, everybody knows it, everybody knows it.
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  So many questions here. When what proportion of serious
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  disciplinary infractions are due to phones?
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  Related to phones. Well, at school, not not a lot
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  because they they the boys up to maybe the end of last year are
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  pretty good at not letting them be seen right.
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  So they're pretty good at keeping them covert and then us
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  not hearing about them. So I would say at the school, I
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  wouldn't say it's a large number.
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  There have been so that the policy up to this point is we
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  would just keep the phone if it ever showed up.
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  There might have been maybe two or three other major like what
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  what did you do with that phone at school?
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  Like how there rather than just I called mom to pick me up or
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  something like that. You know, it was more of, so I
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  would say in most three major ones with the phones, but that's
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  because we're pretty vigilant at, you know, and the boys are
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  aware we're pretty vigilant of it.
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  But yeah, so now as far as major things that happen outside of
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  school, I mean, multiple a year, I would say probably, yeah, at
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  least big ones. I would say at least two to
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  three big ones a year, Right. Yeah.
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  OK, so so the part I'm trying to wrap my head around, which I've
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  been trying to understand for years, and maybe it's something
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  that can't be understood, but parents have told you how we
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  know it's bad for him. Parents who've already given the
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  book have said, we congratulate you on this policy.
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  How? How can a parent have so little
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  self respect? Yeah, I don't, I, I, I don't,
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  that's a good question. I don't know if it's lack of
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  self respect. I I think it's this because I, I
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  I feel it in my own house, right.
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  So my none of my children have ever been given a phone, right?
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  The school they go to issues an iPad and I did I have very
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  strict rules about that in my house and compared to the world,
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  it seems insane. And even as I get layout these
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  rules to my kids and don't give my senior in high school stud
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  football player, you know, receiving all the awards at
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  school and he's a weird kid. He's playing D1 in college next
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  year. Yeah, he's going to go play D1
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  football. As a matter of fact, a number of
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  of popular local like Dave Dave Camels, Texas football and the
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  the local Houston publication, they're they're doing articles
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  on him because he's had an extraordinary football
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  performance. But every time in every article,
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  it's this kid doesn't have a phone.
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  This kid doesn't have a phone, right?
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  And in a like, I hate it to a certain degree because it's they
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  always want to have my input on it.
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  And I'm like, This is why am I in my son's article?
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  I don't belong here. Like what what is happening?
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  You know, I get it. It's just so extraordinarily
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  weird, right? And so going back to the whole
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  your old question about the self respect to not do it is so
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  countercultural. It it it it is, it is like
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  saying, why did you chop your child's arm off?
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  Like that's the the degree of this.
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  So parents. Which parents are actually doing
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  much worse than that to their kids?
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  Yeah. Who they are and that's what's
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  that's the most difficult thing to show if you can because the
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  the harm is invisible physically right and so that's that's why
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  it's impossible for them to see and it's it it while it
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  manifests immediately like the real bands twisting that's going
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  on inside will manifest much later in life.
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  I believe right in in adult life, when they were, they are,
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  they have been so non exposed to the things that you have to be
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  exposed to as a child. Nature, fun wrestling, play, you
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  know, getting out and being a riding your bike around the
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  name, those type of things and chill.
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  And and then you have all the negative things that they will
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  experience through that device that, you know, like any other
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  child trauma typically doesn't manifest till much or can
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  manifest in real serious ways later, less serious ways when
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  they're young. You know, I mean, you're a
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  psychologist. I'm sure you're you, you have
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  seen examples of that. But like the, that I, there's a
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  real trauma being done to these kids with what they are taking
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  in. It's sort of like the, the
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  stories and it's not, it's not what we were exposed to when we
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  were young. You're like, we're all exposed
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  to bad things. The, the level of what these
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  kids, I would be traumatized as an adult exposed to these things
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  and it's daily and regularly. Like that's what these people
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  don't get like this is it's going to have unbelievable
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  consequences in their life. So yeah, so so I but going right
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  back to because I really want to make it clear I don't look upon
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  these parents as non self respecting what what it is?
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  Is it you? It's unbelievable saying no, it
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  is this way. How could it be?
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  The entire world says otherwise. The entire world says otherwise,
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  right. And if my son doesn't, he he
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  will. It's not me.
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  He will be excluded from a lot of things.
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  That's going to happen, right? My sons have missed out on a lot
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  of inside communication jokes, party that they do.
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  And it's hard. That's hard for people to say,
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  yeah, I'm OK because I know the negative effects are even worse
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  than missing out on that. And that's that's just, that's
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  really hard for a parent, particularly moms, although a
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  growing number of dads too. But I could go on that.
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  I'd go on that for a long time. So your your oldest is in
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  college now. And now he's independent, more
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  or less. So he is he reaching out to you
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  now? Like Dad, you really screwed up
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  my life by not letting me have. Yeah.
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  What it, it's funny you bring that up because my, that's
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  always the, the, the fear of everyone.
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  I just actually talked to a couple parents about this
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  recently. That's also the fears.
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  Like if we prevent them, they're just going to go crazy and want.
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  To right, Yeah, hear that a lot. That's, that's the argument,
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  right? My son, I would say six months
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  into his freshman year college, he called me in into debt.
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  I I got to say thank you so much for doing this for me.
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  Wow. You know, he's like you and this
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  was the event. I hope he doesn't care me
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  sharing this. I don't think he would, but this
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  was the event. He was right.
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  He was going with his buddies in spring break.
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  They were driving to Florida, OK.
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  And one of their kids had the phone and got a phone call from
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  his dad. And his dad got on the phone and
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  said, hey, you tell that driver to slow down.
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  Oh. My gosh, helicopter dad.
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  Can you imagine though? Here you are in college, you're
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  heading to your spring break trip, and your dad is telling
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  the driver of the car 'cause he can monitor the speed he needs
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  to slow down like that's. I am deeply interested in
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  bringing about adults who have the wherewithal to direct their
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  own lives toward the truth. I am deep.
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  Holy moly, Daddy still is telling me this like at age 20,
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  like what is hackathon mean it? It's so he was that struck him
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  deeply and he's a dad. I can't thank you enough.
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  Like he and he's been profusely Nah, it doesn't mean that he
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  don't have a phone and a laptop and all, but but he does.
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  He sees it and that is my, that's my hope, that they can
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  see it. Amazing I I want to get that dad
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  on my show. I'll be just so curious, but
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  what let this? But that, but that's not
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  unusual, parent, parents are terrified of not knowing where
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  their children are terrified. And I don't want to know where
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  my kids are because if I do, they don't know they're
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  exercising their freedom like they can't exercise their
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  freedom. You have a watchful eye over
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  you, knowing everywhere you are at all times.
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  You're never on your own, so to speak.
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  I want them to be on their own always, like I that's what my
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  dream for them, that they are able to live a full human adult
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  life, making their own choices directed.
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  And like, what else can you hope for your children but that?
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  But that that is the, the terror and the the false sense of
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  security. We are training these children
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  to be comfortable being trapped, like comfortable being trapped
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  at all times of life. What I'm OK with God knowing
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  where I am. I'm not OK with everybody else.
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  And nobody should be. Well, it will make it a lot more
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  efficient when we transition to the new World Order global
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  state. I think that's right.
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  That's a little bit. But it's a, what you just
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  outlined is a perfect example of this over emphasis on physical
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  safety, which is disproportionate to the actual
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  risk and the under emphasis on the digital dangers.
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  I, I think it's Plato who says that one reason why evil people
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  are so successful is that normal people who are, you know, more
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  or less good. They don't even comprehend that
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  someone could be so evil. So parents don't understand how
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  evil the, the images, the videos they're seeing what, what?
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  And, and so you, you mentioned trauma, which usually when
• 17:52
  people use the word trauma, they're speaking in like a
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  colloquial sense, not, not a, not a technical sense, but, but
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  actually you, you, you spoke technically accurately.
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  In psychology, the trauma has a very specific definition, a
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  criterion. A traumatic event is defined by
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  either experiencing yourself, witnessing or hearing about
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  death as severe violence or sexual abuse.
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  The things that the kids, children are exposed to, that
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  counts as a traumatic. But if someone next to them
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  shows them extremely violent, gruesome video, that is a
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  traumatic experience. If someone shows them
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  pornography, which is very common, that is actually a
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  traumatic experience and some people do experience it as that.
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  I believe it. I, I that that I think that's
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  absolutely right. I mean, because, and, and you
• 18:45
  could even call that that exposure, in my opinion, is
• 18:48
  sexual abuse. Like even to see it and be shown
• 18:53
  it, that's an act of abuse, right?
• 18:56
  Because that child is not ready to see anything anywhere near
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  that. And if you could just say, all
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  right, what if this was a human being in real life in front of
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  them doing this? Yeah, that person would go to
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  jail. You know, it's just that it's on
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  the screen. But it's like, that's an abusive
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  act. Now, it's usually perpetrated by
• 19:16
  his buddy, right? So, but that is, and yeah, as
• 19:21
  far as I'm concerned, an act of sexual abuse.
• 19:26
  So then maybe the most interesting thing it's in my
• 19:29
  mind about this policy is it's actually not that extreme in one
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  sense, because your, your policy didn't change.
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  It's only the consequence that changed that's.
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  Correct. Yeah, that's correct.
• 19:41
  And even that I, I, I don't, I don't see that as extreme, you
• 19:46
  know, if, if you know that the harms are what they are
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  purported to be and I believe I, I'm convinced they are.
• 19:56
  So we like, would anybody be upset if I grinded up the bag of
• 20:00
  cocaine that came to school? You know, they'd be applauding
• 20:05
  me for that destruction, right? It's just like that.
• 20:08
  That is the, even the consequence, objectively
• 20:13
  speaking, I put that in my letter is not extreme and I do
• 20:17
  not believe it. And and so.
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  And I, I want everybody to understand that ever watches
• 20:22
  this. I understand how insane this
• 20:24
  sounds. Well, that sounds weird.
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  I was living in my own realm. I get it.
• 20:31
  I get this sounds nuts, right? But I just had too much
• 20:35
  experience and have thought very, very deeply and studied a
• 20:39
  lot about this. Like I'm convinced like this is
• 20:44
  you're going to, it's going to take a lot to change my mind.
• 20:48
  Well, you said people often have to, like, restrain you.
• 20:52
  I'm. I'm in the opposite end of the
• 20:53
  spectrum. Yeah, I'm here urging you on.
• 20:55
  Like, keep going, Jason. You're running with the ball.
• 20:58
  So what what is the next step? And I have some ideas, but what?
• 21:01
  What do you think is the next step?
• 21:06
  As as far as policy at the school or yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 21:11
  yeah. I don't know that there'll be
• 21:12
  any policy shift at the school. The next step, the next my, my
• 21:16
  next hope. And actually, I've talked to a
• 21:18
  couple people about this, but this only changes if a group of
• 21:24
  parents makes it happen. Exactly.
• 21:28
  That's it. It will not happen.
• 21:31
  If the school tells you to do it, that's stupid.
• 21:34
  Any school that thinks they can under that, it will not change
• 21:38
  the the culture changes with the parents.
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  And I put it in my letter until the parents look at each other
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  and be like, what the hell are we doing?
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  These are little children. We are grown adults.
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  We actually have put them out of place where we don't have to
• 21:56
  give them these things. I'm not a commune, you know,
• 22:00
  mentality guy. Like let's form my little bubble
• 22:04
  here and just shut the world out.
• 22:06
  That's not how I operate. But it's like, but you do have
• 22:09
  an opportunity for him to have a bunch of friends whose parents
• 22:12
  are like minded who all agree to this.
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  Like if you all agree and you, you know, you all agree, what
• 22:18
  the hell are you doing? Don't put it in their hands and
• 22:22
  look at each other and say, how dare you put in your kids hands.
• 22:25
  Now you can't come to my house. You know, if my and if you got
• 22:29
  it over there, I'm not letting my kid come to your house.
• 22:32
  That's, that's it. That's the only way it works.
• 22:36
  Yeah, because what? When you say little children,
• 22:38
  these are 3rd through 8th graders.
• 22:39
  They are children and it just baffle, baffles me generally
• 22:43
  surprises me that they have snapped.
• 22:44
  Yet what? What is the cycle anyways?
• 22:48
  I could go on about that. So this.
• 22:52
  This is this is. This could very quickly turn
• 22:54
  into a rant that I'm regret. Part of me really wants the
• 22:59
  rant, but I, I understand that, you know, I, I, I've thought
• 23:04
  similarly that because this is how I see it from mine.
• 23:06
  I, I've mentored boys for 15 years, typically when they're in
• 23:10
  high school. And what I've seen is you get
• 23:13
  like really innocent boy from good family and then he gets and
• 23:17
  then what happened that he goes into high school and ever all
• 23:23
  his friends get a smartphone. So parents were doing like the
• 23:25
  wait until AIDS or whatever and they don't have and then they
• 23:29
  all get it's like it's like a wave because it's like falling
• 23:31
  dominoes. Once there's a certain critical
• 23:34
  mass of these key people in the class in the friend group have
• 23:38
  phones, then everyone else just rushes in like, you know, sharks
• 23:43
  to to the chunk. So how can we reverse it to
• 23:46
  where there's a critical mass of none of us have smart.
• 23:49
  So having like parent leaders of the friend group, they're like,
• 23:53
  hey, we're making a stand. We're we're not going to give
• 23:55
  our kids smartphone. Are you in?
• 23:56
  Are you with us? You can't let's do this
• 23:58
  together. Yeah.
• 24:00
  Let yeah, there is no other way, right?
• 24:02
  There really truly is no other way because the the the kids
• 24:07
  aren't getting them themselves. You know, the only way it ends
• 24:11
  up in their hands is if the parents buy it and pay for the
• 24:15
  service and allow them to have it.
• 24:18
  It's not happening any other way, right?
• 24:20
  So if yeah, if the no, I think it also is, and I really want to
• 24:26
  stress this. It also is important for it not
• 24:30
  to turn into good guys, bad guys, Like when a normal thing I
• 24:35
  hear all the time is like good families, innocent kids is like,
• 24:37
  oh God, the longer I live the Morris is like, there's no such
• 24:40
  thing right there. There are people that want to to
• 24:45
  to have good and give the best of their kids.
• 24:50
  And and really the difference maker is just he who sees the
• 24:55
  truth and he who is and not yet seen it.
• 24:57
  I mean really like and and truly from quote UN quote to good
• 25:02
  families, like I've seen all kind of horrors and all sign of
• 25:07
  greatness. And it's just like really what
• 25:08
  we're doing, dealing with is human beings that, that, that,
• 25:15
  that just are kind of but, you know, agents of free choice.
• 25:22
  They are self determiners, however heavily affected by
• 25:25
  their environment, right? Particularly their parents.
• 25:30
  And you know, it's just a big, it's just kind of a big mess,
• 25:36
  you know. So what what I do, and I say all
• 25:38
  that because even in the quote UN quote good crowd, I really,
• 25:43
  the more I live, the more it's just like, no, really it's
• 25:45
  people that just have have been shown a little bit of the truth
• 25:49
  and those that haven't because it really like and yeah, so and
• 25:56
  and then the avoidance of the commune mentality, like we're
• 26:00
  going to create utopia. That's not true.
• 26:04
  All we're doing is we're setting up the circumstances to give
• 26:08
  everybody the fighting chance to develop his capacity to choose
• 26:13
  the truth, the good like that's because in the end you could set
• 26:18
  it all up perfectly and I've seen and somebody chooses the
• 26:22
  wrong thing, right? Like he'll go off on a different
• 26:27
  path. I have 7 kids, they all do
• 26:29
  different things, same parents. So I, I think it's critical like
• 26:36
  the, the reason the parents ought to do this, in my opinion,
• 26:40
  the air is to think because we're going to create good kids.
• 26:43
  That's not true. It's not true.
• 26:46
  What you're doing is you're giving your kids a fighting
• 26:48
  chance to live out their freedom as it is supposed to be lived
• 26:53
  out, right? Because that, that is something
• 26:57
  that I, I find it like, you know what some people say, why are
• 27:01
  you letting those families and are this is the good families up
• 27:04
  here? Like I've never, my experience
• 27:07
  shows otherwise, right? But what we can do is help
• 27:11
  people like set up a situation where your kids have the best
• 27:16
  fighting chance, right? So, and if, but if, and that
• 27:21
  only happens in this now this is the, it's going to be itself.
• 27:24
  I'm also a realist. There's the best we can hope for
• 27:27
  it at Western is that while they're here, the parents come
• 27:31
  to that agreement, right? We're not going to do this.
• 27:35
  We're going to allow this situation to exist.
• 27:38
  It's it's why they send them to Western, because this
• 27:42
  environment gives them the best fighting chance, developing as a
• 27:46
  boy into a young man, right? It doesn't guarantee it.
• 27:50
  I mean, we make it very clear to parents this, it'll make your
• 27:53
  kids do it. You just have chosen
• 27:56
  environment. So let's the best thing we can
• 27:59
  know for here at Western is and let's complete that environment
• 28:02
  at home with his, with this group of friends that deal with
• 28:05
  each other outside of school, right?
• 28:08
  And you don't have to mimic everything we're doing.
• 28:10
  That's not what I'm saying. But this one thing, this thing
• 28:14
  called a smartphone is killing it is it's killing it.
• 28:19
  You know, we will never be totally aligned.
• 28:21
  What happened to your house. It's not what's going to happen
• 28:23
  at the school. And to be honest with you, it
• 28:25
  shouldn't be that way. You wouldn't shouldn't try and
• 28:27
  set up little Western academies that are on that stupid, right?
• 28:31
  But this is a fundamental and I even had that point in my
• 28:34
  fundamental point of contention of circumstances laid out in
• 28:40
  front of these kids to direct them toward the good.
• 28:43
  Like with this is a chasm. It is really.
• 28:47
  It's like, hey, this is a health food store, but we have a
• 28:51
  selection of poison for you like this.
• 28:55
  That's a problem. So yeah, what how it how it
• 28:59
  manifests after this in high school, I would say unless the
• 29:04
  school is is on board because every high school puts an iPad
• 29:11
  or a laptop in the kids hands that OK, we're what, a
• 29:16
  micrometer away from a smartphone?
• 29:19
  It's the basically the same thing.
• 29:21
  But if you're at school with it all the time, using it
• 29:24
  everywhere, it's the same thing. So yeah, the schools would be
• 29:30
  one thing. But but yeah, in the larger
• 29:33
  society, I don't know, to be honest.
• 29:35
  I don't know. I don't know.
• 29:37
  This, this. Everybody would have to see it,
• 29:39
  I think. Well, I mean, a sign of hope,
• 29:42
  and I'm kind of going on my rant here, but a sign of hope is the
• 29:46
  public school said no more smartphones in school.
• 29:50
  Even the public through the public schools are like duh who
• 29:54
  were singing the praises of these.
• 29:56
  Yeah, that's amazing. 10 years, I'm pretty impressed with that.
• 30:00
  It is amazing. It's like, it's like, that's why
• 30:04
  my letter is like, it's nothing. Don't everybody sees it.
• 30:09
  Everybody. It's a terrible idea.
• 30:12
  I don't. I don't understand.
• 30:15
  Maybe, I think maybe more and more and more people will cut to
• 30:20
  like the world. I, I my hope, and I've told this
• 30:23
  to a number of people. I hope, though, though I'm not,
• 30:27
  I, I mean, I'm not advocating against smoking per SE, but my
• 30:32
  hope is that it gets treated like cigarettes at some point.
• 30:36
  You know, like, oh, we found this is really, really bad for
• 30:41
  the youth. You can't have it until this
• 30:44
  point. Like truly, I believe that that
• 30:47
  should be a policy in in the world.
• 30:51
  Like these are hyper powerful tools that most adults shouldn't
• 30:55
  even have, in my opinion, but certainly the youth, certainly.
• 31:02
  So I do that. That would be if any real true
• 31:05
  societal change. I don't think it's coming from a
• 31:07
  grassroots effort maybe, but my my pessimistic nature is like,
• 31:12
  that's not going to carry the day because it's just, you know,
• 31:17
  it's just too worldwide. I mean, even homeless people on
• 31:20
  the side of the road have smartphones.
• 31:23
  Like we're really going to correct this from a grassroots.
• 31:27
  I don't see that happening. But I do hopefully maybe
• 31:31
  illustrations of it that pop up like Texas made a big stand
• 31:34
  that's take him out of public schools.
• 31:36
  If we see positive results, things like that might say,
• 31:40
  here's evidence we need to make a change as a society, you know,
• 31:44
  so in, you know, Western, we're doing our little part is for our
• 31:47
  community. And I also want to make it
• 31:49
  clear, and I'll stop talking of this.
• 31:51
  We're not trying to necessarily impact on a global scale like we
• 32:00
  don't have, we're not trying to get out there into the ether
• 32:03
  because it's like I don't have the capacity to do that.
• 32:09
  What I have the capacity for and what I think I'm supposed to do
• 32:11
  is handle this little community right here, right?
• 32:14
  So we, we are just focused on doing that.
• 32:19
  And hopefully these ideas carry on beyond here and whatever
• 32:23
  happens, great. But I'm not a policy guy.
• 32:25
  I'm not a political guy. I'm just a common sense guy that
• 32:29
  likes this community, that just loves this school.
• 32:33
  And a real man. Well, I don't know that this
• 32:38
  part. Yeah, I was actually hesitant
• 32:39
  coming on this because of the title of your podcast, Johan.
• 32:44
  It's like, no, maybe. Yeah.
• 32:47
  What? What is?
• 32:47
  What is your catch phrase? Die trying.
• 32:50
  That's my be truth. Do good or die trying.
• 32:53
  Yeah, yeah, man. I'll die trying.
• 32:56
  I don't know that I'm going to. I will not.
• 33:00
  OK, what? One last somewhat technical
• 33:01
  questions. Most parents would agree that
• 33:04
  their children should not be exposed to criterion a traumatic
• 33:06
  events. But what about very specific
• 33:09
  scenario where the child has this device and he uses it to
• 33:16
  text friends 5 minutes a day? There's a time limit in order to
• 33:21
  set up in person Hangouts. Let's say that's one thing 2
• 33:26
  they can use it for music. Three people they can use it for
• 33:30
  if they have down time to learn a language like Duolingo, which
• 33:35
  is only available in app form or to do like driving test
• 33:39
  practice. So what do you, what do you
• 33:43
  think of that? And then of course, they can
• 33:45
  like call their parents if they if they need something.
• 33:47
  What's your opinion on that? Yeah.
• 33:49
  My, my response to that is this look, certainly good can come
• 33:57
  from this device and other devices, but you can say that
• 34:03
  about literally everything, OK? Even things we all consider
• 34:08
  really bad, good has to come out of everything to a degree, even
• 34:16
  if it's the most miniscule degree, OK.
• 34:19
  And So what I my position is look at the net positive or
• 34:26
  negative result. It's funny, I use this.
• 34:34
  What if you could take a pill that would relieve yourself of a
• 34:39
  headache? And maybe it's Even so good to
• 34:42
  relieve yourselves of all headaches.
• 34:44
  There's only one catch. It takes 20 years off your life,
• 34:48
  right? Certainly the removal of
• 34:50
  headaches is a good thing, right?
• 34:53
  But it's not worth 20 years of my life, right?
• 34:57
  So the argument that they could do all these little good things
• 34:59
  is that it's not good enough. It's just not good enough.
• 35:04
  Duolingo don't count is putting us over the top setting up
• 35:08
  friends, convenience of setting up friends and not having to use
• 35:10
  mom and dad to or or just get a landline and make phone calls
• 35:15
  like and somebody told me that's not even possible.
• 35:18
  I don't know. I so but I know you can find
• 35:22
  good solutions to these things. But then finally on that point,
• 35:27
  I'm telling you, and I could be wrong on this.
• 35:30
  I've never seen a phone be successfully monitored.
• 35:34
  I've never seen it ever stay within the limits of what we
• 35:38
  where we say it's going to stay it.
• 35:41
  It inevitably by design creeps out of that right.
• 35:47
  It's like, I can't believe I found this.
• 35:51
  It was all I can believe it, it it just that's all that ever
• 35:56
  happens. So those two points, it's not
• 36:00
  good enough. Whatever good comes out of it,
• 36:02
  and it will be those parameters will never.
• 36:08
  Be met, thanks for listening. Please like, subscribe and share
• 36:11
  with your friends. See you next time.