Latest / Beyond The Blood: A Horror Movie Commentary Podcast / Staff Picks - Body of Evidence (1993)

Transcript

Staff Picks - Body of Evidence (1993) · Beyond The Blood: A Horror Movie Commentary Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay. I'm ready. I'm ready.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Split Your Head, a bi-weekly podcast hosted by me, Bob,
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: that covers the gamut of all things horror, exploitation, cult, underground, experimental, transgressive, bizarre,
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: and indie. I've been fortunate enough to connect with some
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: of the most groundbreaking.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: And upcoming filmmakers, writers, and artists.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Don't expect a typical interview.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I love shooting this shit with my guests and stumbling
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: on surprising topics that literally split our heads. From splatter
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: comedies to nihilistic sleaze, uncomfortable arthouse to genre classics. If
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: it gets my brain buzzing and cracking wide open like
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: a watermelon full of blood, then I would like to
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: share it with your ears. Now a part of the
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Hi, Mom.
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you. My neighbor saw you go into
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Marcia's house at 8.30. She's not denying she was there.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: Did you have sex with him?
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Did you handcuff him to the bed? Don't tell me
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: it's relevant, Bobby. You didn't have to answer that. No,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: but we appreciate her honesty and cooperation. Bullshit.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: When did you leave his house? Around midnight, I suppose.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: If I'd known it was going to matter, I would
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: have paid more attention.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Well, it's true, Frank.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with saying that.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Miss Carlson, do you use cocaine?
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Cocaine use is illegal in the state of Oregon. I've
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: never used it in Oregon.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: All right, Chris, so tonight I want to start off
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: by asking you a question, okay?
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Can you really screw someone to death?
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: You don't have to worry about.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: It.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I messed it up.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, no.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I got the womb to foe in me.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Oh, no. The Green Goblin?
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: That's a real line of dialogue from this movie, though.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Or what's the other? My other favorite line is, have
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: you ever seen animals screw? Or do you ever see
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: how animals make love? Some shit like that.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: These are the thought-provoking questions that Body of Evidence presents
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: to us.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Well, welcome back to a brand new episode of Beyond
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the Blood Presents Staff Picks. This is the spinoff show
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: that we do where we talk about movies without commentary tracks,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: though I wish to death that Body of Evidence had
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: a commentary track for us.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: It was much needed.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Much, much, much needed. Uh, I am your cohost. My
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: name is Chris Higgins, AKA the bearded foam guy. And
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: as always, I'm joined by Steve here.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Joining you guys tonight.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: This was, this was your pick. I just need you
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: to know you chose this.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: I'll own it. I dig this movie. Let's just say that, uh,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: the box office wasn't as kind to this film, but
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's aged like fine wine.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I actually like, I bought this. I bought the Vinegar
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Syndrome 4K of this. Never seen it. I bought it
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: strictly because.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: For me?
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Mostly because of you, but I also love a good
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: erotic thriller, and I was like, oh, Madonna, this is interesting,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and ordered it right away and got it in. I
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: knew we were going to cover it eventually, so I
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: don't think I was in a rush to watch it
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: quite yet, but threw it on when... I think, like,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: last week when we had decided this is what we
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: were going to do. And I really liked it. Like, really,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: really liked it. And then I watched it again today
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: to prepare for this again. And, you know, I definitely
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: can see... I can definitely see where people complain about it,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: but I don't think this is a bad movie whatsoever.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: And I guess you have a long history with this one, right?
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean... this is one of the films when
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: I was first getting into erotic thrillers, you know, especially,
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've mentioned before basic instinct, uh, fatal attraction,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: you know, those were the first few films that I,
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: I remember getting put onto very, very early on. And
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: naturally as you're diving into the sub genre, this was
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: just another one of those that was really like post
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: basic instinct, uh, trying to capitalize. I felt like on
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: a lot of the success that that film had, um,
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: but it's really interesting because it's a film that I
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: feel like was, I mean, I feel like panned would
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: be an understatement, yet I feel like it's a little underrated,
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: and I agree with what you're saying. I can certainly
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: see it for having some shortcomings, maybe with various performances
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: and certain aspects. As much as I appreciate Madonna, I
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: think that there's certain scenes where it's like, you know,
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: maybe not as, uh, uh, refined as, as the rest
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: of the cast, but I feel like the film offsets
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: that with just the level of lust and seduction that
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: we get. If that makes sense. Um, yeah, she definitely
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: owns that side of it, which I can, I can
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: truly appreciate, you know, Well.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you something, because I'm actually getting ready to,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: if you're listening to this on the Monday, which is tomorrow,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: then I also put up an Instagram reel asking the
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: same question. Do you think that.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'm trying to figure out how to word this question.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's unfair to put every 90s erotic
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: thriller against Basic Instinct? And I ask this because... this
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: happens where a movie comes out. It sets a trend.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Every producer wants to hop on it. You get a
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: slew of the movies, but what, what inadvertently happens is
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: that all the movies get compared to the, the, the
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: triumphant one, which in this case, basic instinct, Paul Verhoeven triumph. Um,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: and what that does is it kind of puts uneven
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: playing ground on everything that comes after, because it's constantly
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: being judged against and not on its own thing. And
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I guess there, I guess there are people who can
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: say like, well, it's not its own thing because it's
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: copying this. But just because you make a movie in
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: lieu of a trend doesn't mean you're copying.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: No, I think that this film, with enough time that's
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: passed as it has, I feel like if you reassess
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: it and you view this film on its own, I
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: don't think that there's any reason really to directly compare
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: it to basic instinct. If you're looking at it from
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: more of like a modern viewpoint, because it's, it's the
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: few and far between films, especially for the sub genre
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: that get close to your, your basic instinct or fatal attraction.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: But I think that on its own, this film has
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: a lot to offer and, and definitely feels pretty essential
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: when we're talking about erotic thrillers.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, I think what's most interesting about it is
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: that there is some good power behind here. I mean,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: you have Willem Dafoe, you have Joe Mantegno, you have Madonna.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: You have the cinematographer whose name I'm blanking on. I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: have it written here somewhere, but he worked on Clockwork Orange. Yeah,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Clockwork Orange and Full Metal Jacket. And like there's a
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: lot of Gray Merveille to this score for this movie.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of power behind it. It's produced by
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Dino De Laurentiis, who at the time was, you know,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the king. It was shot in Oregon, which had a
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of fuss. And, you know, this was a
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: movie that battled MPAA ratings due to the sexuality and
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: really coming out of the really like sensual era of Madonna.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: She was really like between her photo shoots and her
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: music and her music video, her image was very sexualized.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And this feels like kind of the, the epitome of
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: it all, the sum of, of all of it.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: I think that that's where, yeah, maybe the acting isn't
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: quite there, but you have, considering the time that this
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: was filmed and, and put out there, I mean, she
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: was at close to the height of her popularity. I mean,
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: maybe coming down a little bit, you know, from the eighties,
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: but still, um, very recognizable. And, and you have her
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: alongside with Willem Dafoe in, in a film like this.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: I think that that in its own way is, is
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: kind of how it stands out is, is, um, the
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: name power that she has and just that weight that
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: she carries.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: It's also like, there's a shock value to this. You know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I watched this for the first time and obviously I
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: know going into it that, that Madonna is, is not
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: new to this, this nature. You know what I mean?
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: She's done, there's a photo, you know, there's tons of
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: press photos that have been put out of her nude. Um,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: but watching her in this state is there's a shock
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: value to it. It's kind of, you know, this is,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: this is really like if this had come out today with,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: with a celebrity of her size, it would be a big.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: It'd be a big deal.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? And, uh, so it's interesting, man.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: And I actually think like we have a, you know,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the court case here I think is really where the
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: movie falls apart the most. I don't think it's smart
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: enough to support, uh, you know, a movie length court case. Um,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: And I don't think the subject matter is intense enough.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think, I think that, you know, some of
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the character motivations are like some of the stuff with
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: the characters is a little like silly. It kind of
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: like makes you laugh more than it makes you, you know,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: become more invested. But I think still there is, there
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: is some good intrigue here. I think Madonna is pretty magnetic.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I think she really does a great job.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: At pulling you in. It's a great way to put it.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Like for a performance.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: She has two different sides and this is, this is
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: such a strange thing to say because, uh, you know,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: because of just the content that we're talking about, but she,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: she almost has like two channels. And one is when
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: she's being the emotional, more apathetic, like victim, you know, the,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: what's being tried in this murder trial. Um, and then
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: you have the side where she essentially turns on this,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: over sexualized version of herself that unlocks like this new
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: level in her. And that's really where she shines. I think,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: you know, when in those moments, her performance really ramps
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: up and not just because of what she's doing in
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the scene. It's almost like, it's, it's almost like a
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: different performance altogether. You know what I mean?
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, because in the court scenes that we get
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: or the interactions that we have during the day, whether
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: it's between her and Willem Dafoe or when they're at
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: the police station, what I always thought was just so
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: fascinating is that you get a certain... It's almost like
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: that soft lighting that you get on her that's really
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: reminiscent of almost noir-type films. And you get that for...
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: that side of her and then you know you kind
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: of flip a switch when you know you're getting scenes
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: like you know where they're in the bedroom or in
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: the parking garage it's it's moments like that where you
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: just see um hyper sexualized like a hyper sexualized performance
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: that you're getting from her and it definitely works and
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: and it's like the whole time i feel like it's
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: just so fascinating because you're watching this power struggle in
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: a lot of ways and and the power dynamic between
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: the two of them.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Well i think she's the biggest if you're gonna have
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: a conversation about performances in this movie i think madonna
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: is clearly the real discussion to have i think that
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: she uh really i i think that she really is
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: most comfortable saying this is strange she's most comfortable in
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: these moments because this was kind of the persona that
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: she was putting on at the times uh when i
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: was doing research into this i came across a new
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: york times article that if anybody's interested i'll link you
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: to and it was basically like a breakdown this i
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: believe it was written in 1998 maybe 2000 of madonna's
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: career and how she constantly did this thing where she
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: created almost like different versions of herself so she would
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: like separate and become this person and then separate and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: become this person And, you know, this was just one
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of the people that she separated into and that she
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: became as far as her persona and who she was.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: She really entered this period of her career very strong
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: in her beliefs and very comfortable in her sexuality. And
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I think that that's when she's most comfortable in the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: film is when she's really showing that.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Another film, ironically, within the same year that she also
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: starred in was uh, dangerous game directed by Abel Ferreira.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: And that stars her and Harvey Keitel and, uh, James Russo.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: And it's a film that I feel like is, uh,
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: almost like at least when I watched it kind of
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: felt very like David Lynch influence, but, um, it's a,
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: it's a very different raw side of her compared to
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: this is just, you know, very, um, highly sexualized. And,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: you know, it's just, it's, it's interesting that the, the
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: roles that she was taking on specifically in the eighties,
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: like a mid eighties onwards, um, in her film career
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: for sure.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think this is, uh, like a really,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: really crazy sided example of kind of what erotic thrillers
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: were doing in the nineties because the nineties brought together
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: a different energy than ever before. The nineties were really,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I thought much darker, much more, um, sadistic and it's in, in,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: in its thrills and in the terror. And it really went, went,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: it's funny. Cause like horror was kind of dying out,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: but the thrillers were getting darker, you know, post signs
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: of the lambs.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Um, seven is another one I always think of.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The nineties really got dark and, and I'd have
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: to read more to really kind of figure out why
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I say that to the fullest extent. But, um, I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: think body of evidence got a lot of backlash because it's,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: it's so sexualized. It purges all of it. So graphically
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and so in your face that like basic instinct, you know,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: is if you want to consider that the quintessential erotic thriller,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: like it's still very sexual, but it's not as graphic
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: as body of evidence. No, like it does not. focus
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: in on it like body of evidence does and this
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: movie also brings up an interesting point that that i
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: want to get into as we're going through the movie
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: which is that you eliminate you have this murder trial
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: happening where madonna is the the center suspect because she
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: is the the young girlfriend of a older richer man
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: who was found dead watching their sex tape she becomes
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the main suspect and the problem is there's no murder
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: weapon this man died of natural causes and they pretty
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: much pin her physical self as the murder weapon because
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: of her, her increasing, you know, this, this plot that
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: she apparently had to absolutely like give him a heart
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: attack by her sexual exploits.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Well, and, and what I
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: love about this film, um, is just, it's like, we're,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: we're seeing obviously not only the power dynamic that you
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: get between, um, Madonna and Willem Dafoe but the other
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: part that I just love about it is I feel
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: like like we're watching someone play with fire the entire
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: time right so Willem Dafoe's character seems like a successful
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: lawyer and you know he's taking on this high profile
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: high profile case you know representing Madonna and he's married
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: he's got a kid and meanwhile it's like you know
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: we'll get to it a little bit further on but
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: i think it's just so interesting because you kind of
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: see how he becomes more and more seduced and wrapped
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: up in this very unique type of relationship obviously compared
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: to probably what he currently has in his own marriage
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: but um it just continues to escalate more and more
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: and more each time they interact and uh Yeah, I
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: definitely feel like this is definitely one that's always worth
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: checking out for sure.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And we are using the unrated cut for this.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: So if there's any specific moment that we talk about
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: that you don't remember or maybe it's not in your
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: version depending on where you watch the movie, there's two
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: different cuts. I believe it's like a five-minute difference, right?
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to say it's not much.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot. But it's not a lot.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: It's a lot.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: It's wild, though, because initially this received an NC-17 rating,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: which is wild to me. And it wasn't until this
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: was on home video that they were able to release
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: the unrated cut of it again.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Physical media, baby.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And that's, to be honest with you, which I
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: thought was just so cool, is that While this didn't
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: perform well in the box office, it definitely uh garnished
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: a very strong following on home video and was a
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: very popular rental uh very popular rental i'm sure it
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: was sorry it's got me all hot and bothered man
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: i have.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: No doubt this was a popular rental no doubt at all.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: For research purposes of course.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: This is all research purposes please don't take anything we
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: say uh to do all research this is all for
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the love of movies and physical media um so let's
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: get into this let's let's let's break down this movie
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: um i just want to say my first note here
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: i want to kick off um i wish more movies
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: would start off with uh with uh with like rainy
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: nights you know what i mean we open with the
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: shots of the house of what's going to be andrew
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: marsh's house and these shots of a thunder good old-fashioned
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: thunderstorm heavy rain even we get into the house the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: interior shots of the lightning coming through the windows just
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: something we don't get anymore. It's an ambiance and an
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: atmosphere that for some reason in 2026, we don't get
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of anymore.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: No, and especially, you know, given the context of the film,
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: it feels very ominous. You know, we're not really sure.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: This is supposed to be obviously a very intimate moment.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: And then, you know, we're starting to kind of see
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: that it's a little bit more complex than we realized.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: And obviously it begins to escalate, you know, following the
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: events after that. But yeah, I mean, it's the atmosphere
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: that you get especially this opening is, is breathtaking.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I was just thinking about it and
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I just realized I, I started thinking of basic instinct
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: with the opening in the bedroom, how the shot begins
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: with the ceiling. And then same with Jade, the beginning
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: of William Friedkin's Jade starts off outside the house and
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: kind of goes in up the stairs. And there's something to,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: there's something to that openings, that opening sequence style that
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I really like.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: It's almost like it's a, for each one of these films,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: it's kind of establishing just that, really what goes on
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: behind closed doors. It's kind of like the curiosity. Us
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: as the viewer are along for the ride, and we're
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: seeing a very intimate side of whoever it is or
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: whatever relationship's taking place in each one of these movies.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Well, we're about to see a very intimate side of
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Madonna because we.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Big fan.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: When we get upstairs, we see a TV playing a
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: sex tape with Madonna just straight going on. We don't
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: know who her character is yet, but we do see
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: a man in bed who I can't tell if he
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: was dead or alive. I don't know. I couldn't, I
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: was like, he was enjoying it. No, I know that
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: he was dead, but, um, and we cut to an
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: overcast morning, which again, this was Portland, Oregon. It's rainy
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: over there. It's overcast all the time. This, uh, Weather
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: is my perfect choice. I would live in Portland, Oregon
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: in a heartbeat if I could. If it was rainy
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: every day, it would be perfect for me.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: That's a bold move.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: I like being depressed.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: I'm over here thinking of Miami.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Two different sides.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely. But, yeah, I mean, this is... It's
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: a unique location. I'm trying to think if we've really
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: come across any erotic thrillers that take place in Oregon.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: It's a cool choice.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I know Grey's Anatomy is in Seattle,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: but that's all I can think about right now.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: That's not the same thing.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: It's always raining there, too. So we see a black
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: car pulling up the driveway and stepping out is none
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: other than District Attorney Robert Garrett. He's played by... Is
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: it Joe Mantegna? Is that how you say it?
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Joe Mantegna, obviously, he is the district attorney for the
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: state of Portland, Oregon. And you're a big Criminal Minds fan, right?
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: You're a big Joe Mantegna fan?
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, I could appreciate him as an actor. I
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: can't say I'm a big fan of that show, but....
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: What about Godfather Part 3?
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Do you want my honest answer?
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: On Godfather Part 3?
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. In my eyes, there's only two Godfather films.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: One in three?
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Are you serious?
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Only it's only the, uh, was it the Kodak that
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: you like?
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I think, right. That's it. We're wrapping up this episode.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: It's going to be a very short episode.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of three, you know, uh, Joe Mantegna was
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: one of three and baby's day out. All right.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: We're getting somewhere.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: We're getting back. We're getting back. Well, yeah, we're definitely
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: getting somewhere because he was also a Richie and thinner
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: as well. And he was losing.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's right.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Good guy. Good guy. When we get to the top
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: of the house, we realize that there's a body being
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: carried out. And our dead guy, who the guy laying
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: in bed earlier was in fact dead, turns out to
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: be Andrew Marsh. And he's suspected of dying from cardiac arrest,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: according to Dr. McCurdy, a.k.a.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Norris.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: And I think he's actually the thing in disguise. There's
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: no way that he survived the incidents in America.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: It's always interesting when we're, we're doing our research on
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: these films. And then it's like, you start pinpointing who
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: was in what movie, especially with him. And, um, he
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: has since, did he pass away? Pretty sure. I can't remember.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: I think it was, yeah, it was not too long
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: after this. Maybe like, I think it was like four
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: years after this film came out, but, um, I mean,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: are you trying to say that his performance in Dante's
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: peak is, was better?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I mean, he definitely gets more time
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: in Dante's Peak than he does here. I also love
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: seeing him in charge of a group of people, which
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I get a lot of in Dante's Peak. You know,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: he's the leader of the group. So I think he's
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: very good.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: We don't get that much in this.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: No, you don't get it. He's got like two scenes
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: in the.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Whole movie.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: It's not much. Um, but literally dude, my notes say, uh,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: how he survived the events of the thing. I'll never know.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: He's hiding is the thing in Portland. That's what my
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: notes say. Yeah. Um, well, the investigation continues and we
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: go upstairs and, this leads to a discussion that, that
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I really like. And, uh, it's, uh, a discussion about
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: suspicious markings on a bed frame that look like handcuffs
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and nipple clamps. So what's your thoughts on a nipple clamps?
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Um, I can't really weigh in on that.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: It's the way that he asked, like, what are these,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: what are these for? He's like, what, how did these work?
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: You know, who did really know quite a bit about
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: it was a district attorney, Robert Garrett. He was very,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: very quick on his feet. And then they blame it
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: on him being from California.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Daddy knows what nipple clamps are like.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: So you're just going to assume that about everyone from California.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Well, in this scene, we're also introduced to another important character,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and that is Joanne Braslow. She is Andrew Marsh's secretary.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: She's played by Ann Archer here, and she reveals that
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the identity of the woman on the tape, which for
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: some reason the sex tape is still playing. There's an
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: active investigation happening upstairs, and the tape is playing at
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: full volume while they're investigating.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: For research purposes, right?
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: For research purposes, yeah, yeah. And she is a snitch.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: She right away is like, it's got to be Rebecca Carlson.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Played by Madonna. That's Andrew's girlfriend. She snitches out right away.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: Unreal.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: This is where we cut to a funeral. And this
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: is the funeral of Andrew Marsh. And we are introduced
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: to Frank Delaney. Played by Willem Dafoe. Do I have
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: to go into a history of Willem Dafoe? We all
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: know Willem Dafoe.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: No.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: But talk about... quite the track record leading up to
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: this film he had previously i just kind of cherry
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: picked a few films that he had been in so
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: to live and die in la which i just recently
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: watched again uh last temptation of christ wild at heart
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: um obviously he was a little bit more of an
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: established actor by this point but uh i i have
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: a note on here that i feel like this performance
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: i don't know about you a little bit more subdued
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: compared to like i feel like we become accustomed to
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: with him as an actor.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking about that, and I think I
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: love Willem Dafoe in everything, but I think I'm starting
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: to turn into, I think I'm starting to like the
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: wilder side of him a little bit more.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, 100%. 100%.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing about this role that is outlandish
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: in any way.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to think, like, going back, I mean, he
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: has quite, I was diving into his filmography, and it's incredible,
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: the projects he's been a part of, but Um, I've just,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: I was like trying to pinpoint like, where did he
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: really start ramping up with like the over the top performances?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's, he's pretty nuts in Spider-Man 2001. You know,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: he gets a little crazy with the dual personality of,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: you know, he definitely shows a little bit of the
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: wild side there. I think he's actually best with Robert Eggers.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I think his, his performance in the Northman, um, was,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: was great. His performance at Nosferatu is very good. He
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: is when he works with like these, like all tours, like,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: like when he did, Poor Things.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: There's a moment when he burps a bubble, which is
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: really funny in that movie. I like a lot.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Antichrist is another one.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Lars von Trier. Yeah, with Antichrist. Yeah, he's wild in that.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I definitely think that side of him is more my speed.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: But I like this because... I haven't seen, like, Live
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: and Die in L.A. I've seen, and, you know, he's
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: good there. This is very, very straight for him. And
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: it's interesting, because when you read into the history, he
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: was more interested in just working with Madonna. That's why
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: he wanted this, was to just kind of work with Madonna.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's pretty impressive. I just, I think I've...
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: maybe maybe watching these films like not too far apart
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: between this and to live and die in la and
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: i just recently watched spider-man actually not that long ago
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: but i just have like a a newfound appreciation for
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: him as an actor and i just i i don't
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: know it's like i i feel like he's one of
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: those uh like the top performers for me when it
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: comes to like um i don't know like robert de
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: niro al pacino those will always be my favorites but
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: willem dafoe is definitely up there for sure.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I like the moment in, uh, in this movie when,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: when he says to Madonna, you know, I'm somewhat of
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: a sadomasochist myself.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: That I knew it. That's where it, that it wasn't Spider-Man.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: It was from the.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Body of evidence. Uh, so at this funeral, the funeral
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: ends when he shows up and, uh, this is where
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: he first encounters Rebecca because he's going to take on
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: her case. And, uh, there's some interesting back and forth
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: here between them as she kind of expresses concerns for
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the child, the charges filed against her and really like
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: how this has shaped the family's opinion of her. There's
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: actually a moment where she's like, the family doesn't even
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: think I should be here. And it's, it's really interesting. Like,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I guess looking back hindsight is 2020. Like if, if this,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: if this was like my uncle or something, I'd be like,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this chick truly was, you know, just out
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: to get his, to get his money. You know, she's
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: so young compared to him. Uh, so I don't know. It's,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know really how to, how to feel her
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: out at this point in the movie. Um, I do
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: think this is kind of where her performance is the weakest.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: She's just, but yeah.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: You're, I mean, you're getting, uh, what would you say?
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Like a slow introduction to her character. We still don't
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: know a lot about her other than kind of like the,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: the framework, uh, to the allegations as to, you know,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: her being a suspect, but, um, you know, you're, you're seeing,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: I think in, in that initial interaction that they have,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: you're seeing the softer side to her, or I feel like, um,
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: it's like her mask, right? I think of it as
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: like a mask and she's, you know, it's kind of
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: like how I would have to assume that some of
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: her interactions with some of these other guys has been,
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: you know, previously, But you can already see that, you know,
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Frank's a little bit more standoffish initially. And then we
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: as the film progresses, we kind of see him get,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: you know, wrapped up further and further.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Well, it's almost like we know we know through the
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: end of the movie that she's putting on a performance.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: So it's almost like this is kind of her getting
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: into character. So she's still, you know, kind of coming
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: in and then event like the end of the movie
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: when we get to the testimony, she's fully in. but
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: we cut from here to a cafe Olympia and at
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: this wonderful cafe, which looks like it serves incredible food.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I must say I would come here.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: In a heartbeat.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: We're introduced to Frank's wife, Sharon played by the always
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: fabulous Julianne Moore and their young son, Michael. And I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: think Sharon owns the cafe just based on kind of
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: some of the interactions with her. And then if anybody's
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: looking for a job, she also needs a manager.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's not going to steal from her, apparently.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It sounds like she's had a pretty rough track
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: record with, you know, hiring good help. This is one
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: of her earlier roles. So she was early on Tales
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: from the Dark Side, the movie, The Hand That Rocks
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: the Cradle, which is another great film. And then this
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: was about a year after that, so in 93.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's always cool to see an actor or
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: actress so early into their career. Seeing her in this, obviously,
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: she has a little bit more of a minor role,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: but it's pretty impactful.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Well, only a few years after this, she'll be working
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: with Spielberg in The Lost World Jurassic Park.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: That's a big jump. You think it was because of
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: this movie?
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I think so. I think Steven is a big fan
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: of Body of Evidence, I've heard him say numerous times, so...
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: He's like, I need her, you know, and I get it.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: She's great in her like two and a half scenes
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: that she has.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: In this movie.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Um, so, uh, we, we cut to the police station
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: and we cut to a little bit of like an
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: interrogation going on. And I just want to say that
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: in this police station that I really love and miss this,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the way that we would shoot interiors in the nineties, um,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: there's like this haze in the air and I love
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: like the light splitting from the window where it's people,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: characters almost have like shadow lines on them because there's
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: actual intent behind the lighting as far as setting mood
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: and atmosphere. Really, really just love it, man.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: And do you think this film excels more in the
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: atmosphere than anything? Cause I, I certainly feel like across
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: the board, I think that that is definitely one of
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: the strengths of this movie as a whole.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the movie does a really good job at there's
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of very intentional lighting. There's a lot of
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: moments where there's almost like a strip of light going
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: across a character's eyes and the rest of them in shadow.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: And I really like that move. I do feel like
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: maybe there was some limitations as far as the how
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: far do you want to take the style? Because there
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: are moments where I almost felt like it could have
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: been more. We definitely could have upped the contrast a
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: little bit or dropped the exposure a little bit to
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: give some more intensity between those lights and the darks.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Because most of it here is very subtle. It looks good,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: but it's subtle. It's not as stylized. And I think
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: it really would have benefited from further stylization. But I
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: can understand having some restraints.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: I agree with you because there was a couple of
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: times and we'll get into it. I'll note it as
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: we get a little bit further into the film itself.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: But there was a couple of moments where I was like, oh, man,
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: like if you just leaned into it a little bit
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: more in this bedroom scene or, you know, in this interaction. Oh,
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: my God. I feel like that this it would have
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: enhanced this movie that much more because of it.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think definitely in comparison to, and I
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: hate to keep doing this, but I'm going to, because
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: it's the easiest, it's the easiest, you know, one to do,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: but like Paul Verhoeven and Jan de Bont with basic
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: instinct go full style. They go max contrast, max visual
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: aesthetic and pull it off. Whereas this feels like, like
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: they were almost afraid to go that far. Like it,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: you know, and, I definitely think it suffers a little
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: bit visually because of that. I think the, the, the,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the vinegar syndrome 4k looks really good, but I could
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: definitely see even in the 4k transfer that like there
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: there's limitations.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: You know, this is not, I don't think this is,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: you know, the, the, the highest level transfer they could
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: have possibly done. But yeah, I, I actually kind of
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: wish that, like, I feel like this would have been
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: great as just a really good Blu-ray as opposed to
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: a 4K, but I'd have to do, like, side-by-side comparisons
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: to really check that.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: I am happy to have this in the collection, though.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: I feel like just across the board, with just the presentation,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: I know you were saying with, like, the transfer, you know, it's...
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: I agree. I don't know how much you could have really...
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: enhanced on this one compared to the blu-ray necessarily but
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: the box set itself is just um it's just nice
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: to see it on the shelf this is another one
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: that i was really coveting you know for a long
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: time and to see this and like you were talking
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: about jade and the last seduction films like that you
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: know getting uh even uh sliver you know getting these
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: nice releases um from various labels is pretty cool.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah i agree um and in this in this
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: little like interrogation interview scene Um, we learned that cocaine
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: was found in, in Andrew Marsh's system. And we also
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: learned that he had a pretty extreme heart condition, which
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: is heart failure. And she claims to have not known
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: about it. And according to the scene, uh, she's never
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: done cocaine in the state of Oregon.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: I was going to comment on that.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: So never, never in the state.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: I respect that. You know, it sounds like she's, uh,
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: she's living a clean life.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: You got to follow legalities, which is if it's illegal there,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: you can't do it there. You could do it elsewhere. Um,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: she also later says in the movie that she hasn't done, she's,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: she was 17 and 17 experimenting with cocaine is pretty,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: pretty wild. Um, but at the conclusion of this interview,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Rebecca is arrested for the murder and we learned that
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: $ 8 million was left to her and Andrew's will just
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: a couple of dollars. Um, And there's a few lines
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: of dialogue here that I really liked that I think
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: attached to the, one of the big like themes of
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: the movie. Uh, one of them being Willem Dafoe saying,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: what are you going to do? Tag the body is
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: a murder weapon. There's not much else. There is no
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: physical weapon that was used. So essentially the state is
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: charging her for the murder without there really being a weapon,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: which I don't truly understand how, of course this is
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: a movie. It's not reality. how in any real sense
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: you could possibly, would this fall under like coercion? Like,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I don't understand.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, obviously she's aware to some extent of
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: their health history, you know, for these lovers that she has.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: And as we find out a little bit later on,
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: I don't think that there's a lot of regard for
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: pushing the boundaries as far as she possibly can, despite
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: them having history of all these health conditions. So, um,
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think for the sake of this film
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: and the, and the motivation, you know, we don't, we
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: don't really know yet at this point, but the way
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: that it's shaping up is that, you know, she's, she's
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: basically pushing these, these men, uh, to their limits.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, we start to kind of, see some more
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: of this other side to her that we haven't seen
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: yet from the character. Because from here, we see Frank
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: escorting Rebecca out of the courthouse, which is, I guess,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: after the bail was posted. And it's, again, just this incredible, like,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: rainy night, which only the 90s could shoot rainy nights
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: like this. I don't know why we haven't been able
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: to match this again. And we get into, like, a pretty... weird, uh,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: like car discussion. This is what I alluded to earlier
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: with the, how animals have sex. It's violent and it's intense,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: but they don't actually hurt each other. Um, this is
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: like one of the scenes it's kind of, so this
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: is very silly dialogue where it's on paper seems like
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: this is great, but like, it just doesn't really, it's
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: one of those things where like the first time I
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: watched a movie and I heard it, I was like, what?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: What are we talking about here?
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: In a way, when you're mentioning that, in a way,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: it feels in a lot of ways kind of similar
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: to House Sliver. I feel like it's just not the highest...
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: I have a soft spot for it, but I by
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: far know that this is not the highest caliber of
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: the subgenre. But same deal here. There are certain points
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: with the dialogue or uh, the script where I feel
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: like it's just, it's, it falls a little, falls a
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: little flat.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: It's, it's very, um, like I would expect this kind
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: of writing in like a, you know, like a steamy,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: like romance novel, you know what I mean? Or like
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the sex novels. It's, it's very much like that, but it's.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: Not, it's not too far off. I mean, really, if
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: you're the film as a whole, you know.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: But we cut from this to some real intense lovemaking
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: between Frank and his wife, Sharon. And I wanted to
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: bring this scene up because there was actually an interview
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: that was in a 1997 article in the LA Times
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: that was titled Not Strictly Naked Ambition, written by Sean Mitchell.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: And he had spoken with Julianne Moore. He had cited
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: an interview with Julianne Moore where she expressed regret about
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: the nudity in this sequence, calling it, quote unquote, just awful.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: And she went on to say, and I quote, I
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: was too young to know better. It was the first
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: time I'd been asked to get naked, and it turned
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: out to be a completely extraneous and gratuitous. End quote.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure to some level I would think
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: that she would know, you know, filming an erotic thriller,
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: that there would be some nudity.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't... You know, I think all the time...
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: We kind of saw this when we did our Basic
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Instinct episode. We talked about how Sharon Stone, you know,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: claimed not to know the extent of the leg crossing scene,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: how much you were actually going to see. Even though
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: Yandamant was like... She was like... She literally watched it
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: on the monitors when we were done and saw it. Like,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: you know... So there always is a little bit of
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: kind of like....
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: misrememberance or like miss, uh, like in hindsight. Yeah. Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Cause I mean, I, I don't want to speak for her.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: And I, if you, if, if actress, you know, obviously
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: actors have had a long history of, of being put
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: in uncomfortable, um, situations with nudity and it really, in
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, her, her, her scene in
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: this is not long, nor is it gratuitous. I don't think, but, um, yeah,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: it's just, it's just interesting that she looks back with
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: that kind of, with that kind of, um, that kind
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: of regret. And that was four years post, um, the role.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: So I wonder, I would wonder now how she looks
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: back at it.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think of this as like a
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: standout role for her, you know, despite everything, but yeah,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think that there's a little bit of
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: vulnerability regardless. Anytime an actor actress is having to get, uh,
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: filmed in this light. So, I mean, that might be
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: different for everybody. You know, it's not really something that I,
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: I guess when we're, we're thinking about erotic thrillers, I
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: feel like it just comes with the territory, but you know, um.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: But it's also an important, it's also like, well, a
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: lot of people argue that today that sex doesn't matter
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: in movies. When you're telling a story like this, it
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: does matter because this is establishing a character that, trait
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: in Frank Delaney where she actually makes the comment and
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: says like you know you're even better when the cases
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: are like this you know what I mean so his
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: sexual performance is directly related to how tense or how
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: involved in work he is it's weird.
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: Well in another aspect I think and you know obviously
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: we see more of this as the film goes on
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: is that I think in a way it's almost like
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: a sexual awakening of for his character, because I don't
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: know if he's entirely aware until he has this interaction
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: with her, that he's into this type of like kinky dynamic,
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: you know, with her. I mean, obviously she's way more
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: experienced when it comes to this, um, as like essentially
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: as a dominatrix, but, uh, if I had to guess
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: just based on the, on the little context we have, uh,
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: I think that this is his first foray into, uh,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: something like this, you know? Yeah. He's along for the ride.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I agree. Um, so there's a couple
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: of bits of information that, that really kick off here
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: at this point in the movie, because we go to
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: a meeting at Frank's office, uh, where we learned that
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: one Joanna, uh, Braslow claims that Rebecca and Andrew Marsh
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: didn't have normal sex. That's what she says. Um, and
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: that she has personally witnessed Rebecca doing cocaine. that she
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: walked in on her snorting white powder out of a vial.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Rebecca didn't even know that she was there. This pisses
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: off Frank. Frank goes to the gallery that Rebecca runs.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: And it's like, you swore on an oath that you
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: haven't done cocaine. She says, I haven't done cocaine since
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: I was 17. Um, and she's like, let's go for
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: a ride. And she takes them to like, I don't
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: know if this is like a health store, like a
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: little health clinic. um this is all very odd and
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: she goes in asking for her medicine which turns out
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: to be white powder in a vial uh which is
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: chinese peony roots which is used as an aspirin substitute
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: for her cramps and for some reason she has to
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: snort this or snorting is a method of which she
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: does this so it's a little strange it's weird it's
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: really weird um but i think the this is a
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: big kickoff scene because this is really where some of the,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: the lust begins to really kick off between Frank and Rebecca, because, uh,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: turns out at this health store, she also gets her
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: acupuncture done here, which this is what she's here for. Frank,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: without even knowing drove her to a medical appointment, which
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: is so funny to me. Um, and she goes, uh, upstairs,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: which a couple of stairs up to another level, uh, to,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: to do this acupuncture appointment. And the, The doors are
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: just kind of like slits of wood, you know, enough
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: that somebody can peek through. But you kind of get
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: this very voyeuristic tease of her undressing and getting on
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: the table and stuff.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: Can I can I say that that's one aspect and
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: there's certain. intentional shots where we get the voyeuristic viewpoint
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: or observing the interactions that they have, especially, you know,
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: and we'll get to this a little bit later on,
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: like when they're in the bedroom together, it's moments like
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: this that it's like it further charges each one of
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: these scenes. It's like, I feel like us as the
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: audience is kind of getting drawn into that, that sexual
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: tension that's going on.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: It's, it's really interesting because it's something I've never really,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I think this is the, well, body of evidence conversation
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: got so hot.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: I had to take a break. Yeah.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: I had to take a break.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: Dim the lights a little bit.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we were talking about what the slim
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: light or the, the, yeah.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: So I got you, man. Um, so yeah, there was,
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: there's certain sequences that I just felt like take us
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: along that ride essentially with, uh, the voyeuristic shots that
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: we get, whether it's here or even a little bit
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: later on, you know, their first real interaction that they
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: have in the bedroom together. Um, And there's just something
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: about that that it just feels like us as the
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: audience is seeing how sexual tension continues to mount at
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: this point. And this is earlier on, but I feel
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: like it continues to play into that.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Well, there's something interesting that does happen here. First of all,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: there's a cat. Always welcome cats in my movies. that
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Frank is petting. But he also moves, like, closer to
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: the divider between him and where she's getting the acupuncture.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: And she begins talking because she knows that he's there.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: So there was obviously an allure that she was hoping for.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: And I was wondering, like, was the floorboard just creaky?
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: And she was like, well, clearly he's closer. Or what? But,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: you know, she definitely is very aware of what she's doing.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: here um and then i also just have a note
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: here that uh because she asked uh you know can
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: you drive me home he says yes and that she
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: lives in a really cool boat house.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: It's cool she's got she's got a nice spot that's
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: for sure i.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Would live there this is more like a boat home
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: this is not just a house this is a big
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: place like a boat home but you know it's still
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: very very cool location um And this point in the
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: movie is where we get our first look at the
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: courtroom setting. And we're going to be spending a good
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: amount of the rest of the movie in this courtroom.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: And one thing that was really cool was that this
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: was built on a set, this whole courtroom. And a
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: lot of that was, this was very common for, you know,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: courtroom-based dramas or movies at the time. But one thing
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: that was cool here is that the cinematographer, Douglas Milsom,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: really liked this because he can control the lighting and
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: kind of change it on a dime. you know, he
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: can go in and kind of like have the windows
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: blown out or send a streak of light on somebody
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: or kind of like shot by shot really change the
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: visual language of the courtroom. And as we see the courtroom,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: it's in like different phases. Like some days there's cool
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: light streaks. Some days it's more even lighting. Sometimes there's
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: light hitting Madonna a certain way. Sometimes it's accenting other people.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: So it's a really good understanding of kind of, of,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: of how to, light for dramatic effect, one setting without
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: it seeming jarring without it, like without us ever being like,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: wait a second, it doesn't make any sense that the
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: light is working that way.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's, uh, I would definitely say that throughout the film,
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: it's very intentional, uh, the way that some of these,
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: these scenes are set up for sure.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Well, during his jury speech, uh, Bob Garrett accuses Rebecca
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: of using her body as a weapon, and that she
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: insisted on increasingly intense sex, as well as dosing our victim,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Andrew Marsh, with cocaine until he reached heart failure, to
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: which she got all of his money in the will,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: or most of the money in the will. We learn
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: in this first court scene that they found cocaine in
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: his nasal spray that was next to his bed. And
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: this is coming from Norris earlier, the thing, Dr. McCurdy.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: We learned that from him. But we also were introduced
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: to another very important character in this, in the sequence.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: And that is Dr. Alan Pally. And he is played by,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: I believe it's, is it Juergen Prochnow? He's a German
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: actor who you can see in Twin Peaks Fire Walk
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: With Me and The Mouth of Madness.
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: I was just about to say.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, here he plays an emergency room physician at the
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: local Memorial Hospital. And we learned that Andrew Marsh was
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: admitted to the hospital one night for cocaine poisoning. He
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: had claimed that he tried cocaine for the first time. Dr.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Pally left Andrew Marsh with a bit of advice, which
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: was doing cocaine again would be suicide.
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: So....
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: So don't pick up this habit is what you're telling me.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Especially if you have heart failure. Don't do that. We
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: then see Mrs. Braslow on the witness stand and a conversation,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: talking about a conversation that she had with Mr. Marsh,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: where he had claimed that if Rebecca kept the sexual
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: escapades up, it would kill him and that his heart
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: literally could not take it. So we're kind of starting
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: to get some different, you know, it's looking really bad
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: for Rebecca at this point.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: But the evidence is mounting.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: It's very... What's that word? Something evidence. It's very surface-level,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: nothing concrete. Very... I don't know what the word I'm
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: looking for. I would say surface-level. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: thought there was a word for it, but maybe I'm wrong. Frank,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: being the great lawyer he is, he fights back by
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: claiming that the sensitivity in their conversation, meaning Andrew Marsh
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: and his secretary... is if they always spoke about their intimate,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: how intimate their lives are as work partners, essentially. And
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: we learned that Ms. Brasler was actually a patient at
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: a substance abuse center for a month a few years back,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: being treated for cocaine and alcohol abuse. And according to
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: admissions reports that Frank has pulled, Joanne brought Andrew Marsh
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: to the hospital the night of his cocaine incident.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Wild. Yeah. Cocaine.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Hell of a drug. We then go to a weird
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: dinner scene between Frank and Rebecca. And they're conveniently right
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: next to a birthday party. That always sucks when you
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: end up right next to the birthday party. But luckily,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: they're not at a Texas roadhouse where they interrupt the
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: entire dining experience to celebrate.
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: What do they have? The Blooming Onions?
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Blooming Onions.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: You don't have any Texas roadhouse where you're at?
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: I think we do. I just, I feel like, uh,
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: do you think that that would, that would enhance the
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: relationship for them? They split one.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I think there would be a, I think knowing the
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: temperature of this movie is running at, there would be
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: a very sexualized scene involving the individual peelings of a
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: blooming onion.
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: Oh no.
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: I never want a blooming onion again.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know why, why I thought that. Um, this
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: is just such a weird little moment because they discuss how, um,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: how Rebecca knew that Andrew would have the same sexual
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: desires that she has.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: She's obviously, you know, doesn't she, she alludes to it.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: Cause he, he's trying to figure out exactly like, uh,
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: her perception on picking out who's into it and who isn't.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: And she makes the comment that essentially like he basically
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: puts her on the spot and tells her to look
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: around the room and, try to find someone and she's
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: like he's uh he's here he just doesn't know it yet.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah she says i won't tell you because he
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: doesn't know it yet.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: Which i i'm sitting there watching the movie i'm like
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: looking around i'm like is it.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Me wait what's going on here.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: No i've never uh never given that any consideration i guess.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Well this is a this is an odd scene and
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: i uh i figured i We already talked about some
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: of the writing, but our writer, Brad Merman of this film,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: not a lot of information out there about him. He
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: has some work on some Highlander sequels. I wrote here
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: that his writing is silly, but it's fun.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: Even the director didn't really have much afterwards. I know
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: that around this time he directed an episode of Twin
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: Peaks Season 2, but there's not much outside of that.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Well, listen, man, anytime I'm sitting next to a birthday
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: party at a restaurant, the first thing that I want
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: to do is go home and bang my client, which
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: is exactly what Frank is thinking here when he goes to.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: uh drop off her back at her house and how
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: this scene plays out is interesting because she brings up
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: that that she knows that he wants her she wants
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: him and he declines and walks away and he gets
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: to his car and looks out and conveniently at the timing, uh,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Rebecca comes walking out onto her, you know, balcony. And
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: this reminds me of the moment in basic instinct when
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: Michael Douglas looks up into her home and we, you know,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: we can, we see Sharon undress, you know, in this
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: robe and very expertly planned timing.
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: I think even a strong willed individual like Willem Dafoe
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: has his weaknesses.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Well, um, I want to reference one of the bonus
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: features on this release. This was a video essay done
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: by Jennifer Moorman. And she talks about how for like 20,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I think her video essay is like 25 minutes, and
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: she talks about a lot of different aspects of this
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: movie as well as the genre as a whole. It's
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: an excellent, excellent piece. But she talks about how in
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: this particular moment, how he's beckoned back in And she explains, like,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: the voyeuristic nature, obviously, of him watching, but also, like,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: the sliding door being left open, which, of course, he's
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: going to see and, you know, out of protective purposes,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: probably check on. And how that the curtains are making
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: a pretty perverse shape, which, did you notice the curtains?
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: Go on, Chris.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: The curtains resemble very... very, uh, it's like the doorway
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: is an alien, you know, very provocative, very provocative. And
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: it's very, uh, you know, the door is left open.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: He's being back in, back in the, into the door. And, uh,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: he's lured back in and, and she comes out of
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: the shadows and it's locked in.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: It's, uh, that, and I, I, um, I felt like
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: this was one of the standout moments in the film, um,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: That specific moment, exactly, is... She seems very comfortable with
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: this whole setup, the way that she's moving and what
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: she's saying. There's a lot of experience behind this, right? Yeah.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: The use of the cinematography in this scene specifically, especially
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: for their... you know, first sexual encounter use of the shadows,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: the fire emitting, uh, the glow, um, the, the skin
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: is enhanced throughout the entire sequence. Um, it's excellent. It, the, the,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: the way that the, it's a, it's just a very
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: stunning sequence as a whole.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: It is. And we were talking about the voyeurism. Most
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: of the scene is actually shot through like a curtain.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: It's almost like a lacy curtain. that most of it
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: is shot through once, once actual sex gets involved, then
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: it's mostly shot through the curtain. But, um, some of
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: the like foreplay here is actually her pouring hot wax
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: on Frank and she pours it on his chest and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: his genitals. So, you know, that's, uh, that's always good.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: You know, everyone's got their own thing. Um, before actually
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: having sex with them. That's all shot through the curtain.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: And it is, I actually think like, I think scenes
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: like this, I think are particularly well shot. I think it, it,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: it definitely is. It's definitely more graphic than, than I
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: think some of the offerings from the genre, but there
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: is a little bit of a, there is a, a
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: bit of a artistic style to it.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, there is. Yeah.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: That I, that I like a lot, you know? And
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: Frank just, you know, wakes up the next morning at
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: home and he's got bird marks all over his chest.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: So. Yeah. And it's, it's quite a bit too. I'm
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: over here thinking like, how, how does your wife not
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: see this? He doesn't even pull up the towel. I
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: think like to cover.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: But then we learned that there's marks on his back
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: as well. So it doesn't matter anyway. She sees, she sees.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: And this is why you don't, this is why you
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: just don't, cheat on your wife because you're gonna get
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: caught and that's stupid you're stupid he had no clue
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: that they were there i guess i i guess not
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: man i mean this shit's hot.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: Don't forget the champagne was involved too.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: It's like when you're 14 trying to hide your first
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: hickey you're like uh yeah i know.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: Basically the same thing just on a wider scale.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah um So back to the courtroom, Dr. Pally is
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: called back up to the witness stand. And I just
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: want to say that a lot of this discussion is
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: going to be in the courtroom. I did my best
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: to take these notes in a way that that are
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: beats for kind of the uncovering of the information leading
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: to the conclusion of the movie. We learn with Dr.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: Pally back on the witness stand or on the testimony
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: stand that him and Rebecca previously dated. And that, according
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: to him, he shared information with her about Andrew Marsh's
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: medical condition. Including her asking him if cocaine would kill him.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: It's a very odd question to ask someone.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: It is an odd question, but, you know, not a
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: good look. We also find out that, supposedly, according to Dr. Pally,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: him and Rebecca were never physical, which is so odd considering...
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: how sexually explorative she is with everybody else.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: For some reason, she didn't sleep with this one guy
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: that's on the witness stand. Um, and, uh, he tried
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: to sexually assault her in a parking garage, failed, and
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: then calls her phone and leaves voicemails of him threatening
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: to blackmail her. So, you know, we're getting a little,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: there's some webs getting, getting cross here.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: You know, you're seeing a different side of, uh, the
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: story here. Do you think it's because she knows he's
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: Sutter Cain?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: I do. Yeah.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: I think she's aware. I think this upcoming scene is
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: probably my favorite of the movie. Um, mostly because it
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: feels out of left field. There's nothing else like this,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: the scene that we're about to talk about in this movie, um, Um,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: and I think that this is actually probably one of the,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite moments in erotic thriller history because
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: it's so outlandish.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: It's good.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Um, so this begins with, with, with Rebecca and Frank
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: going into the elevator. There's some fondling, which turns into
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: a full blown Cronenberg ask sex scene in a parking garage.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: which they're in the parking garage. She climbs on top
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: of his car, breaks a light bulb, which the glass
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: falls over the hood of the car. Like, she's standing,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: sitting on his face. It turns into sex. He's cutting
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: his back on the glass on the door. This is
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: a very wild sequence.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: It's a choice.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: There's something about how this scene plays out that I
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: just love, though. Like... This feels like a deleted scene
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: from Cronenberg's crash.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, there's a very specific moment you'll catch when she's
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: standing in the car, right? And she starts kind of, like,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: revealing herself, to put it mildly. And we see, basically,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: you know, her underwear is obviously, like, a little bit
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: more prominent at this point. And we catch... there's like
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: red lighting that we're getting and it's, it's cast on
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: Willem Dafoe at this point. And you see like this,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: this specific glazed over seduced look as soon as she
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: presents herself in front of him, it's, it's, there's something
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: about it. And I don't know if it was, it
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: was intentional, but there it's like one of those moments
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: that I feel like that's like always etched in my mind.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: when it comes to this film as a whole, it's,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: it's really well done.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: There's in particular, there's one wide shot of him. She's,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: she jumps up on the hood, breaks the window and
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: turns to him. And there's like a wide shot where
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: you can see this kind of corner of the parking
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: garage that they're in. And that shot was always, is
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: always very, very like appealing to me. I don't know
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: what it is. It's, it's, it's very alluring and, it's
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: it's and it's so interesting man because that none of
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: the none of the rest of the movie feels like
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: this scene.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: No and and i almost wish that they would have
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: leaned maybe not full into it but used this like
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: um stylization for more scenes throughout the film you know
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: you get the the bedroom scene their first sexual encounter
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: and then this and i just wish we could have
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: gotten maybe a little bit more of it. Um, there's
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: even a moment if I recall correctly, um, when they're,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: they're in the bedroom before this and there's, there's this like, um,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: this ambient blue color off in the distance. And it's
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: just like, you want more of it, you know, just
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: given that like both you and I are very familiar
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: with the sub genre and these films, like usually they're
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: a little bit more stylized and it just feels like
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: maybe an opportunity that they could have incorporated it.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: Well, there's also, I think, I think there's some visual
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: language here because Willem Dafoe drenched in the red light,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: I think is kind of signifying that he's fully in
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: the shit now. You know what I mean? She has,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: fully pulled him into a side that he did, that
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: he did not intend to be a part of. And
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: now he's roped in, you know what I mean? And
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: it's going to take, it's going to take a lot
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: for him to get out of it. So I think
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: that there's some intention there as well. Um, so right
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: after this scene, we're, we're back in the courthouse. That's
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: pretty much what this run of the movie is. It's,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: it's sexual encounter, courthouse, sexual encounter, courthouse sort of feels like, um,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: We have a new witness who's brought to the case.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: This is Jeffrey Rosten, played by none other than Frank Langello,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: coming into the scene. We learned that him and Rebecca
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: were lovers who had a pretty intense sex life. And
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: he suffered from a bad heart. And she wanted more
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: and more intense sex, which he couldn't perform. And we
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: also learned that she left him right after his bypass surgery.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: So the moment he gets his heart fixed and he's
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: good to go, she's out. She's gone.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: We don't even know why. She's not interested anymore.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like, okay, I don't need you anymore. This
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: brings to another theme that's brought up by Jennifer Mormon
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: in that video essay, which is Rebecca's need for control.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey brings up that sex is essentially a game to Rebecca,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: that she gets off on the control. And Jennifer Mormon
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: points out that in all of the sex scenes in
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: the movie besides one, Madonna is positioned on top, which
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: is a symbol of control and dominance. So I thought
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: that was pretty cool.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: And how interesting is it that, you know, Frank... Basically,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: we're seeing it from his viewpoint as the audience. He's
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: already established in a position of authority and power within
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: his own career, and yet when bedroom doors close, it's
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: almost the exact opposite. He's more submissive. She's dominating for
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: the most part in a lot of these encounters they have.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: I think that's kind of some of the common occurrence
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: is that she dates wealthy men you know, wealthy, powerful
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: individuals who probably in the professional life is very dominating
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: and very controlling, but they're very, um, they're very, what's
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for? Uh, there's a, there's a
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: specific word I'm looking for. They're very, uh, docile or
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: like willing to give up, you know, that control and
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: she's able to then conquer that. Um, but things are
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: going to start getting bad because, um, Frank goes back
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: to the cafe Olympia. I think he's there to pick
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: up his son. And we essentially learned that Sharon knows
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: what's going on. He's caught.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: Not good.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: And, uh, she tells him that people have seen his
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: car at Rebecca's boathouse and that Rebecca has actually called
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: the cafe looking for Frank. And while there's no definitive proof,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: Sharon points out, you know, where did the marks come
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: from that you have? why aren't you having a meetings
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: in your office? She can tell by the way that,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: that Rebecca said his name. She just knows she has
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: the instinct. She knows. Um, and Frank gets pissed off
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: because Sharon's like, go get your things, get out. I
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: don't want to see you anymore. You're out of here. Um,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: Frank rushes back to Rebecca's apartment to confront her about
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: the phone call. And we have another encounter where, uh, Uh,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: essentially there, things are very heated. He pushes her to
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: the ground at one point and she begins to masturbate
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: in front of him, which he eventually succumbs to her,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: but he takes control by handcuffing her to a table
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: leg and seemingly assaults her. Like this is a pretty
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: rough sequence. And it, first it kind of seems.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: You know, he's taking a step further with what he's
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: doing too. Yeah.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: Um, But we eventually see that she's beginning to enjoy it.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: She's actually kind of liking this side that she's getting
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: out of Frank at this point.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: But isn't it interesting because it's a very different contrast
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: to their first encounter, right? This was very new to
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: him at that time. And then you fast forward to
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: this scene and the roles are reversing in a way
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: where handcuffing her and then proceeding to do something that
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: there's maybe a little bit of reservation on, but obviously,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: you know, um, definitely seems to be enjoying it.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: This is also, I think the most shocking moment to
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: see Madonna play through in the whole movie. I thought
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: like it just progressively got more and more graphic and
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: this is kind of the ultimate buildup of that. Um,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: so yeah, Frank wakes up the next morning in his
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: office and he's woken up by one of his partners
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: who was rewatching the sex tape that we saw at
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie to hopefully just find some
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: more evidence. And he stumbles across an unseen part of
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: the tape. It looks like kind of most of the
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: tape was deleted, but if the tape continued playing, there
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: was a little bit more on it that wasn't originally deleted. And...
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: This unseen part of the tape finds Joanne Barlow being
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: chased around Andrew's room playfully and nude. So, looks like
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: there was a little bit more to that relationship, but
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: I do want to bring up something really, really cool
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: that happened kind of behind the scenes here. There was
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: a Chicago Tribune article that was published in March of
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: 1993 that revealed that, I might butcher this last name,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: but Sean Lucider or Lucider um, was an actress who
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: worked as Anna Archer's body double for this nude sequence here. So, um,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: while we do eventually see her face in the footage
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: does cut from the nude stuff where you can't see
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: her face. So they got a body double for her
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: for this, this moment. And, um, Sean was paid for
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: her work, but she received no onscreen, no onscreen credit.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: And also became upset when she saw that Ann Archer
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: was essentially leading to the press, uh, to believe that
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: the nude scenes were in fact her. So I don't
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: know what she was doing or how, how Sean came
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: to this conclusion, but, um, I guess that, you know,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: she was pretty hurt by that. And as a result, um,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: Sean founded the body of doubles committee, which campaigns for
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: body doubles to receive credit and employment benefits similar to
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: unionized stunt performers, which, yeah, which is still active to
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: this day. So great work, great work on that. That's,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: That's truly like the, that's truly a, you know, you
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: don't like the way it's getting done, you establish the
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: way it's going to get done from there on.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: And, I mean, should be giving credit where credit's due.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Dude, everybody like, every single person who's involved in anything
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: on the set should receive credit. Doesn't matter if you're
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: a double, doesn't matter how insignificant you think, you know,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: your role is to the total production, you should get credit.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: And you should also be protected under the same You know,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: the same thing as everybody else. So we're back in
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: the courthouse one more time. Well, actually, two more times.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Miss Braslow is brought back to the testimony stand. We
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: learned that her and Andrew dated before Rebecca came into
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: the picture. Frank threatens to submit this videotape that he
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: has of her. um, into evidence. And we also learned
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: that the purchase bottle of debt, that she was the
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: one who purchased the bottle of nasal spray just days
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: before there was no other bottle of nasal spray found. She,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: she charged for that purchase of the nasal spray. Clearly
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: she is the person who was with, who had it before. Um,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: and it's at this point when, when the day is
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: over that Rebecca's begging Frank to let her testify. And
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: he argues back and forth, eventually giving in. He doesn't
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: think it's a good idea. Um, So we cut to
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: the next day where before her testimony, Rebecca runs into
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: Frank's wife in the bathroom of the courthouse to which
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: Sharon gives her the business with a big old slap
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: in the face.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: Not good timing.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And this leads right into the testimony scene,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: which I think is actually the strongest performance by Madonna.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: In the entire film. I think the scene is intense.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: There is a, A certain nature to how the scene
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: is approached that finally feels like we're going to get
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: some answers. This is also going to dictate the direction
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: of the ending of the movie as well.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: Um, I love the confidence and the strength that she
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: carries through the whole scene. And we essentially find out that, um,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: she did not leave Jeffrey played by Frank Langella, um,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: because he got his heart fixed, but she left because
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: she found him in bed with another man. Which is
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: pretty shocking because I actually like the fact that he's
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom. And that she says, he's in here now.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: And we cut to him in the back of the court.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: Essentially being... He seems ashamed that he's now been called
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: out in this sense.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: I remember watching this the first time. It kind of
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: threw me for a loop when this was revealed.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a little like... think this is what
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: I said earlier when I kind of mentioned that like
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think the writing is as strong here I
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: don't think you know this does kind of feel like
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: you know her get out is that she just happened
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: to be dating a guy who also was interested in
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: men and she caught him so not as strong as
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: it could be but it's right after this the jury
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: finds her not guilty of the murder of Andrew Marsh
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: celebration everybody's happy you know Oh, yeah. But this is
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: where shit really goes off the rails.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: That's an understatement.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: So Frank shows up to Rebecca's boathouse and some of
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: the sliding doors are locked. We hear her talking to
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: somebody inside the boathouse and we learn that she's actually
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: talking to Dr. Pally from earlier. We learn that Pally
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: supplied the cocaine that was used to kill Andrew Marsh
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: and that this was all an elaborate plan. for Rebecca
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: to walk away with $ 8 million. So this whole movie
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: that we just went through was a giant performance. And
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: she put on this whole act that was expert, expertly elaborated.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: There's some issues, but you know, thought out very, very well.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: It's definitely not flawless. Um, but there's a lot of
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: tension between her and Dr. Pally over what happened. And
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: he basically begins to beat the shit out of her.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: And choking around on the table and Frank gets involved
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: and he starts to beat up Alan. Now everybody's beating
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: up everybody. Rebecca runs up the stairs, gets a gun
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: from her bedroom before she's attacked by Dr. Pally, who
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: Frank eventually gets up the stairs, pulls him off of
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: her and ends up kind of throwing him over the
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: second floor balcony. Crashes down into the first floor. And
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: the gun went off next to her head, so she's
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: kind of leaning in the back of the room. I
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: guess it's her ear that's bleeding or the back of
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: her head is bleeding. And Frank comforts her, picks her up,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: begins walking her towards the stairs when a gunshot rings out.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: And we see that Dr. Pally is at the top
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: of the stairs and he shoots Rebecca to death as
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: she falls out of a window into the water below. Yeah.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pretty grim ending.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: It is, and I don't really.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: It.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: Feels unsatisfying when there's no... You find out the whole
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: time that she was playing everybody. Because she needed to
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: get this heat off of her. She wins. Frank catches her.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: And figures everything out. And then she just ends up
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: getting killed anyway.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that this is... I wouldn't say this
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: is one of the stronger aspects about the film. It
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 3: just feels like an unsatisfying... ending where it's where it's
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: like okay well i don't think frank you know like
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: he's definitely not gonna be walking back into a normal
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: life after this but i feel like for um for
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: rebecca it's like you've been doing this so many times
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: that you finally got burned and unfortunately it caught up
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: to you and you know this this is the outcome
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: so i don't know it's it's interesting because it just
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: feels like um.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, is, is he going to be like, like
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: for Frank, if we were to look at him post
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: the events of like what happened here, I mean, is,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: is he going to be recognized for this or like,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: you know, what's, what's going to happen? Cause obviously I
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: feel like his marriage basically fell apart as a result
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: of all this and this affair he had.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: Well, he walks out and, and Sharon is out there.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: So clearly I think she was worried about him and
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: still probably, obviously I think, it's a tough thing to
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: deal with. So there's obviously still, you know, feelings involved,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I, I don't really know where he goes
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: from here.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: And Rebecca's dead and everything's wrapped up. You know, the
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: case is, it's, it's done. There's nothing else.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: How do you, how do you return back to a, a,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: a marriage like that though?
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: Um, I think, uh, I think, I think, uh, she
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: puts him on house arrest. And he's not allowed to leave.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: Ever again. No more candle wax or champagne.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: They get back together and he's like, so honey, I've
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: been thinking. We got some candles in there. Some handcuffs.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: She gets mad.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: Broken glass.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: I know that's what you did with her, you son
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: of a bitch. That's 1993's Body of Evidence.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: It's a gem. In a nutshell.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Wrapped up. No, I really there's some silly stuff about
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: this movie, but I don't think I don't think this
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: movie has to be, you know, a stone cold classic
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: for it to be enjoyable. It's very enjoyable.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: It's a it's a fun ride, I would say. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of like. It's a movie that shot
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: really well. Sorry. I'm yawning. Um, it's a movie that
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: shot really well, you know, definitely like it leaves a
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: little bit to be desired in the, you know, the
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: intrigue or in the intelligence of, of the court trial,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: which takes up most of the runtime, you know, it's
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: not Andy, it's not Aaron Sorkin writing this stuff. Um,
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: but you know, it's, it's enjoyable and it gets you
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: attached enough. And I do think there's enough intrigue. I
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: think the real appeal here though, is the Madonna of
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: it all, you know, Yeah, I.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: Mean, look, if you're looking for lesser-known erotic thrillers, you're
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: making your way through the sub-genre, I definitely feel like
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: this is an essential viewing. Yeah. Because you get a
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: little bit of everything with this film, and I feel
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: like that's just what makes erotic thrillers so much fun
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: to dive into. You're going to get very... Definitely... varying
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: levels of, uh, and quality of, of each one of
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: these films. Yeah.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've watched, I've watched some that are way,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: way lower quality than this that have almost no, I mean, I've,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: I did watch basic instinct too.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I'll go on record and say, uh, body of
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: evidence is definitely miles away, better than that miles away.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: So, Well, if anybody's interested, I'll have a link below
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: to Vinegar Syndrome's website to pick up Body of Evidence
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: on 4K. This does come with two interviews. You can
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: interview with the director. You can interview with the cinematographer,
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: as well as an excellent video essay by Jennifer Moorman,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: which I think you should check out. It is like
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: the slip box, you know, with the side, you know,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: entry box and a booklet and stuff. It's a very, very,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: very nice release.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: Go pick that up. Go support Vinegar Syndrome. Go support
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: these companies that make all of this possible. Next week,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: we're getting back into the commentary swing of things. We're
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: going to be going back to one of my favorite
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: movies of all time. I think it's one of yours
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: as well. Adam Wingard's The Guest.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good one.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: A little bit in celebration of Onslaught. Maybe the new
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: A24 movie. Directed by Wingard that's supposedly a sneaky sequel
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: to The Guest.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: I want to judge it on its own merit. I
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: think it's going to be hard to come close to
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: The Guest because I feel like this was an unexpected surprise.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 3: Almost in a very similar way with You're Next. Another
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: one that I felt like was kind of the same deal.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 3: Very excited to dive into this. I I'm always looking
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 3: for a reason to revisit the Second Sight box set
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: for this film.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: Such a nice set. Such a nice set. So yeah,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: head to the link down below. Check that out. Also,
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: when you're down there in the description, be sure to
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: check out our podcast production network that we're part of,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: Someone's Favorite Productions. We're incredibly proud to be joined by
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: an absolutely stellar lineup of other podcasts. This past week,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: I've been listening to The Director's Eye. It's a podcast
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: where they explore, you know, the careers of filmmakers through
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: basically like a movie-by-movie lens. And for their first season,
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: the show just debuted, they're doing James Cameron. So they've done,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: you know, an episode about his beginning roots with Piranha
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: 2 and his first short film, which I'm blanking on
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: the name. And then they just released their episode on
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: the Terminator, which is fantastic. So please take the time
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: to go check that out.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 3: I would love to cover that on here at some point.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: The Terminator? Mm-hmm. Consider it done.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: It definitely has a lot of similarities with the guests. Yeah.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: So Steve, let people know where they can find you at.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: You guys can find me at after hours video on Instagram,
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 3: Tik TOK, YouTube, you name it. And as always co-hosts
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 3: on beyond the blood podcast.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: And I, I am bearded film guy over on Instagram.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: You can always catch me on there as well as
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: here on beyond the blood. Also on the fireside collection
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: podcast with our friend Jordan.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 3: Um, yeah.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: So, uh, body of evidence. Watch this one with the
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: whole family.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. yeah listen please do so and then get back
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: to us let us know how it goes.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: I believe it was roger ebert who said that uh
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: that he's seen comedies that have less laughs than body
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: of evidence so.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: Judge it on its own merit we'll see you guys
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: on the next one see you guys
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: Thank you for listening To hear more shows from the
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 4: Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network, please select the link in
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 4: the description.