Transcript

Draft Day! · State of Play

0:01
SPEAKER_00: There's no way we're dodging this draft.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Unlike some people I know, you know who I'm talking about.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: It's day to play.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: All right, all right.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: Today joining us, we have the infamous Joe House from The Ringer.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Find them on Fairway Roland, the Ben Simmons.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh oh, wow, 40 and slept.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Bill Simmons and the Ringer Gambling Show, among other Ringer media outlets and shows.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: And we appreciate my guy joining us on the pod.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Joe, how you doing?
0:36
SPEAKER_00: All right, all right, big V.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it to it.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: How uh how excited are you about about the draft?
0:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh after the selection uh of the ping pong balls from from the draft.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, they they say you're supposed to see a doctor if it lasts longer than four hours.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was a week-long experience, uh, and that that enthusiasm is is bubbling right back up.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: We're you know about 24 hours out from this this draft, this NBA draft, and we get to see who the number one is.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh the excitement is very high.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't I don't think DC could be more excited.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm in the nation's capital, you're in here in DC as well.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: And I I the the Wizards are my adopted team.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: They're not my team, but they're my adopted team.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I just I'm so excited for this team.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, having the opportunity to to to finally pick at something beyond you know number two in a bad draft.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Um we have a now we have a really, really, really uh good opportunity to find an actual piece to be the anchor of the franchise for God knows how long.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: For for a while, a good while.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully for over a decade.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, so alright.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk scenarios.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's pretend tonight is the draft.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Um you are the GM of the Wizards, and you're in the reward room getting ready to pick.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: You're on the clock, number one pick, long time coming.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
2:13
SPEAKER_01: Just take AJ Devansa and be happy with it and be very excited for the young man arriving in the nation's capital and let all of what he brings to the table, both on the basketball court, but importantly, off the basketball court, because we got to see a version of him that to me showed a maturity beyond his years.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: This young fella is not 19 years old yet, and yet the NBA said to him, Hey, would you like to participate in the playoffs?
2:47
SPEAKER_01: Recording in progress be a correspondent of sorts, and he was at games and he was talking to players, and it was a very natural fit.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'm telling you, that goes a long way with me.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: It shows that he's ready for the spotlight, it shows that he understands the weight of being a potential number one overall pick, a top three pick in what is widely regarded as one of the best drafts of the past decade.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: And that maturity is everything because we've had immaturity in Washington with an overall number one pick.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: Who are you saying?
3:24
SPEAKER_01: We know what what what Kwame was all about.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: That wasn't Kwame's fault, by the way.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: No, it was not.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: That was the franchise, the franchise not being ready to take a high school kid and put him in his very best position and help him learn a little bit about life uh off the basketball court.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: But look, man, I I I feel like uh AJ has every single tool on the basketball court.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm not worried about you know his ability to develop to develop the three-point shot that will make him literally unstoppable.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: And the defensive part of that, that's you know, he's a kid, so I'm I'm not he has the seven-foot wingspan, he has the 6'9, he has the dynamic athleticism.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: AJ is my pick.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: What um, so you you sound convinced, convinced.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Were you ever waffling at all on whether or not you picked Peterson?
4:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, not after the college season finished.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, over the course of the college season, it was honestly very fun to watch each of the three guys in their situations, their scenarios, and watch their college careers unfold.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: It was a unique experience where each of the three, we knew they were coming out after their college season.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: And to me, Boozer was the most impressive because Boozer had the most pressure on him to deliver at, you know, the spotlight was on him.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Duke was projected to be the best college basketball team in the country, and for much of the season, they were the best college basketball team in the country.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, they beat Michigan um in on a neutral court, and you know, Boozer was all the best player in that game.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: He was the best player in that game.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: He was the most consistent and efficient uh freshman of the three across the you know the entirety of his one-year college career.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the analytics are are just spectacular for Boozer.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: Spectacular for him.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: He's so efficient.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: I I love it.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't trust analytics though anymore.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, all they do is is reinforce what your eye is telling you.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: Is he making the right decision?
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Is he an efficient shooter?
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Do you like the way that his shot looks when he's facing up?
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Is he knocking down threes when they're open?
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: At the end of games, do you trust him to make the right call, either taking a shot or passing the ball?
5:51
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: And and you're just going to behind all of those.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: There's there's numbers that support each of those conclusions.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: But R.I.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: told us all of that stuff as well.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: I would agree.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: I I would think like intellect-wise, Boozer is is, and this is not a hot take at all.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: He's by far the most intelligent player in the top ten prospects um of this draft.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh I just think his he knows exactly what to do before he sees things coming.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And he makes them look easy.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: He makes the actual best basketball play um before it happens, and it it shows.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: It's just his, you know, his team wasn't as good as he was.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, no knock.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: Um his team was pretty good.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: They're pretty good.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: I just mean it took a miracle play by UConn to knock them out.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Here's my thing, though.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: I agree, but my thing is I just I don't want Elton Brand all over again.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: I know that's right.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: And now I'm on I'm waffling because in my rebuttal, Elton Brand couldn't he can shoot threes.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh Boozer, if you leave him open, he's knocking the three down.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: He's over 40%, I think.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: So if you're leaving a big 610 power forward open, I mean what what more that can you ask for?
7:11
SPEAKER_00: He can defend, uh he can defend pretty much every position.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Um I just don't, you know, he's not flashy, even though I think a little bit of that is a little wrong, because I don't know if you've ever seen Boozer drive to the basket.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: If you he's a locomotive.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: If you are in his way, you better move.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get trucks.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I think if you want to put butts in seats and sell tickets and look for who's gonna be the who's gonna be a superstar, because you mentioned Boozer, and obviously you mentioned you mentioned um uh AJ DeBanza, but you haven't mentioned uh Darren Peterson yet.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, I I mean why aren't why aren't you picking?
7:53
SPEAKER_00: You you've you've been convinced about AJ DeBanza.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Why aren't you picking Peterson?
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Because when you're in this position where you know you're you're really trying to make a distinction between three top-notch talents, you're looking for you know what what distinguishes these guys.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: And you know, all of them have the talent, all of them have the IQ, all of them have the motor.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: The priors coming into the season was a pretty clear ranking of Peterson number one.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: I think Boozer kind of in that that two although Boozer and DeBanza were were both.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the problem with Boozer has been regarded as one of the best players in the country since he was 14 years old.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: And he's met the standard.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: He might ever fall off.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: You never, he never at any of his the levels, his his club teams, his the international play, um, and then his high school play, obviously they won the national championship, and then in in college, you know, his for his one and done season, he was up to the standard every single time.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: The same is true of Peterson.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Peterson was regarded as the best player on the um under 19 team internationally.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: He was uh phenomenal.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: His own high school performance, and so when you're trying to you know split hairs in this very fine manner, um the the college experience of of Peterson in inserted questions into the analysis that I still don't feel like we have great answers for.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh he missed a third of his college games, and after the season was Kyrie.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, sure, different injury though, different situation.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: Kyrie got hurt, and we understood that Kyrie was hurt, and then he couldn't come back.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay, fine.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: We had a very weird experience instead with Peterson.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: He didn't just get hurt and then have to miss games because he was hurt, right?
9:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's Caleb Wilson, right?
9:47
SPEAKER_01: Caleb Wilson got hurt, and then we didn't we were deprived of seeing him in the highest leverage moments of the NCAA tournament.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: It would have been awesome to have seen him in the ACC tournament and possibly the NCAA tournament.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: I think Caleb Wilson's gonna be incredible, but uh Peterson wasn't hurt, he was experiencing something that we didn't get an explanation for until the end of the season, and not even a real one.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't see the problem.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: I think people are afraid, but you know, I got my the eye test.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: There's like the eye test.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: This is this is the difference between the GOAT conversation for me when you talk about, and I'm not trying to have the debate about LeBron and Michael.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying it's not a debate, but that's fine.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: It's not in my mind, no one jumps.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm just telling you, no one jumped off the screen like Michael Jordan did.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Not LeBron.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, I love LeBron.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: He didn't jump off the screen at you and say, look at me.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: There are times when I saw Peterson play where he jumped off the screen.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: He looked like Kobe and MJ.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: And he made it look easy.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I also look at, and this is one of the things I saw about Trey Johnson, as much as I love Trey Johnson for the Wizards.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: He some of his shots look hard to me.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh he makes it look hard.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: AJ DeMan says the same thing.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, a little bit of the same.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: A little bit.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh his difference is he's double-teamed the entire season.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: And he would go through and he'd either make the right play or he would score, uh, make an incredible shot.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: But they look like hard shots to me.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Darren Peterson makes everything look easy.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: It just he's just naturally gifted at finding open lanes and open angles and taking open shots.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: He's and he's really good at it.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you, um, I, you know, I've heard that this is by no means a done deal when it comes to the uh this is I have it on good information from uh insert third, first, second, insider level.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is by no means over, that it's not just uh uh uh Peterson.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I mean um AJ DeBenz.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, first of all, have you seen this clip of uh DeBenza saying that he didn't work out for any teams, he just came, which is complete bullshit.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Like well, yeah, you did.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, exactly.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: You did.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: We're in that season, though, right?
12:22
SPEAKER_01: As soon as the ping pong balls land, the nonsense starts.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you you know this as bet as well as anybody because you and I were on at least one thread where we're immediately aft after the number one pick lands in Washington's hands.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: There's speculation around, well, who should we trade it?
12:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, should we think about doing something?
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, come on, man.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, it hadn't it hadn't even been 24 hours after landing the pick, but all of this, you know, uh um misdirection and you know, did the who's worked out for who and what what what are the teams, you know, what's the inside calculus, what's going on?
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Well um the reason why I say that is like here's the other like the reason why I say it's not done deals because Peterson obviously did a workout, and I heard he showed out like he he had the best defenders on him, and he was scoring over them relentlessly and easily.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: That's what I heard.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: Was this now a workout for Washington or for Utah?
13:20
SPEAKER_00: For Wizards, for the for Washington.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, for Washington.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: I heard that he absolutely murdered them.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: And the only and now I heard the a little bit of the same for DeBenza.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: Um the only one of the biggest differences is with defense.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Um they were both neither here nor there.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: I heard they both needed a little bit of work.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: Um but the intellect for Peterson was I heard was a little bit higher.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Not even a little bit, was definitely higher.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Great.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: But his scoring ability was way up there.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Now, I'd also heard that uh this is from someone on the inside say that DeBanza looked really close to some of the NBA legends that you see when they were coming into the into the league, and um that it was way closer than anyone than anyone thought.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: They thought it was a done deal.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: So I ask you this because okay, you're the wizards, okay.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about other scenarios.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: You already said, you already said that you're definitely taking Devansa.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: If if Utah definitely is is pushing hard for Peterson and they want to trade down, would you do it?
14:40
SPEAKER_00: If they want DeBanza, would you trade to Utah?
14:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, you you listen, you certainly listen.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: What what's on the table?
14:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, the the the hypotheticals that we invented ourselves because Utah.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: We invented Utah has nothing to do with this.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: Utah has nothing to do with it, but the internet has a lot of hypotheticals for Washington.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh, yeah, if if indeed, you know, this this theory that um the Banza was being groomed by Utah, he was, you know, he went from Massachusetts, where he was being raised, to Utah in his high school days, uh, was incentivized to make that move with a with a uh a nice uh compensation package and went from that academy directly into BYU again with a very handsome compensation package, yep, and certainly has uh a relationship with the leadership of Utah Jazz and Danny Ainge, yes, that that goes all the way back to that that high school uh move.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: Um then you know maybe there is this this uh some some some genuine logic uh behind Utah having a perspective and and really wanting to do something.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: They put up they put up Ace Bailey.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Take it.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: I would take that trade.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: I would take it in a minute.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Of course, of course.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: I would take it in a minute.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Two top five talents in back, you know, in back-to-back years, and and for a team that's positioned like Washington is where you need to have as much young talent as possible on the exact same timeline, adding another you know, top-notch, yeah top-level talent who has the benefit of one year of NBA uh conditioning already, like that's cheating almost.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's stealing.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: So I wouldn't hesitate.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: You give me a team with Ace Bailey, Darren Peterson, and all and already you have Trey Johnson, hopefully, hopefully Trey Young, uh, Trey Young and Anthony Davis and Alexar, along with the rest of the core.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: I I would be fine with that.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: I would be happy.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: I would be very happy with that.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: So I'd be shocked if Utah did that, to be honest with you, but go ahead.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: You don't go that far if you're Utah.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Literally grabbing this man from the East Coast, bringing him to the West Coast, having him, you know, be the feature superstar at BYU.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't go that far without trying.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Really, really, really hard.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't do it for like marketing or somebody like that.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: I I want Ace Bailey.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: I would consider I would consider it for marketing.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: But I'm just saying.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, it would have to be, you'd have to have a perspective on what you could turn marketing into.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: In the same way that Washington has a perspective on what they they might be able to do with Anthony Davis.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: If they if they're I mean, there's a scenario, this is like me just bullshitting like pie pie in the sky.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: You you take marketing and then you trade him out for or even Anthony Davis out for another piece or a package of some players.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: And then you I'm I mean, then what do you do?
17:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, there's that.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: I I'm I'm skeptical and haven't really spent a ton of time going through trade scenarios with Utah because they're they they've kind of told us what their goal is for next season.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't you don't trade for triple J and have the combination of Triple J and Mark and plus the young talion.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they have they have oodles of of young talent, they just haven't you know made a commitment to winning basketball in the same way that Washington.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: This is part of the excitement for Washington.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: We get to see a team actually try and win basketball games, but Utah is ahead of Washington in terms of the talent that they possess.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: And you know, they they you you you can uh you know name their starting lineup, and it's going to be competitive in the West.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Now, the West is is a beast now.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, there is wide competitive.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: Like in the way that Phoenix was competitive.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Honestly.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: Give me Utah's roster over Phoenix, and I'm not kidding.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: But Phoenix was you know a playoff team in the West this must this just completed season, and I think Utah will be bumping up against that if their guys are healthy.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Post-draft, whoever they get, okay, whatever they end up doing, it's going to be you know Peterson or DeBonte, it seems like.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: Although uh a lot of folks have uh theory that that that that's the landing place for Boozer, and I I I get the logic of it.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Boozer strikes me as as amongst these these guys, he sure does seem like the kind of guy that Danny Ainge would have liked to play with uh back when I would agree, but I would even say for the Wizards, if you're talking about fit, like fit, I don't I don't really see Peterson like as the best fit.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: I see De Bansar or Boozer as a better fit for the Wizards currently.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: They need a big old dude like Boozer rebounding, you know, a someone who can be a Bruiser next to SAR or even uh uh AD.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Like you have somebody like defensive toughness alone for God alone.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: Dream.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: Dream.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean that creates the opportunity for SAR to rim protect.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you want SAR to be able to rim protect.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: He's not going to be a physical defender, he's he's still a couple years away from that, it feels like.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: But he certainly has the instinct for blocking shots.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if AD plays, he's still an elite defender.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and then you have guys who are underrated defenders.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: I'd say underrated, but I I call them pr relatively elite defenders like Kulabale.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, he's a crazy good defender.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Um he just has too many problems in other areas, but uh, but his his defense is really great.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: I just think, you know, I'm not telling the Wizards to take boozer number one.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying smart people, you know, the they're the folks at the ringer have Boozer as a best fit with Washington for many of the reasons that you're sharing.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh my my esteemed colleague Jay Kyle Mann, uh, who I'll be joining tomorrow night after the draft to sit down and break everything down.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Check it out.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: He really has been passionate about the fit of Boozer with Washington and the ability of Boozer to raise the floor for this team for everybody to realize their potential that that boozer would be an accelerant to the maturation of Trey Johnson, to the maturation of um Alex Sarr, to the maturation of Keyshawn George because of how steady a presence he will be.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: He's walking in and giving you 20 and 10.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: He's walking in and giving you an inside toughness, an inside rebounding presence.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: Who's the best rebounder on on the Washington Wizards, you know, pre-draft right now?
21:34
SPEAKER_01: It's not an easy thing to answer.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: It's not, I mean, Keyshawn George is probably honestly the the best, but I I don't know.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: I would hope it'd be Alex Sarr.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: You would you would hope, yes.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: I would hope.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're seven foot trying to sit out.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: We need to see more of him playing basketball.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: He didn't play a lot of basketball this most.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they set him out a bunch.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Um now I'm not saying obviously we have our top picks, but I was wondering if you if we could look at Some of the other picks.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: I was looking at Darius Acuff's um sort of stats the other day.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Your boy man, I'm not convinced that he's not actually the best player.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: This man, his last 17 games, averaged 28 points a game.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: He shot nearly 50% from three against really tough defenders.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he shot it's more like 48.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: But and then you have obviously Caleb Wilson, who's 6'9, some say he's 6'10, athletic wing.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: I would hope that Will Dawkins and everyone at the Wizards are doing like their due diligence, and obviously have those guys that you are in the your top tier.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: But I say that because like the Wizards have missed on some good players uh in the past.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh 2022, you know, you uh the they drafted Johnny Davis.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Um well that was you know sorry to bring up both wounds.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: It was finally the end of the the Grunfeld regime because it was Tommy Shepherd that made that pick.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: And you know the problem with um the NBA is if you miss a top 10 pick like that, it's impossible to recover.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just impossible.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: When you when you don't get anything at all out of a top 10 pick, it sets your franchise back.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: It resets the timeline.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's it's it's just devastating.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and to get just to be that wrong that consistently, this this Washington franchise and the Grunfeld Shepherd era is replete with those kinds of guys.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: The Grunfeld era is over, folks.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: It's the new wiz because they passed on Jalen Williams and Jalen Duran in that draft.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: Now I will say it's I have the benefit of hindsight, but um I was I don't I want to see the best version of Trey Johnson.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know how, when, where that's gonna come.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: It could be with whoever the Wizards select coming up here, but you know who I I know for sure is gonna be a really impressive NBA talent for years to come?
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Cedric Coward.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: He's a beast on both ends on the floor.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, bro.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I understand what the priors were and why Johnson was you know slated where he was slated, and the idea of a dynamic scorer and his versatility as a scorer, but a one-dimensional scorer, um, and that that's where he is right now, versus a guy in coward who's who's really impactful on both ends.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm quibbling and I and I'll I'll show you.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: People like you and me, I I feel like we saw him coming.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: And my eyes again popped out when I saw him play.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: I was like, uh-uh.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: Please, this this boy can play, man.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I I wouldn't I wouldn't say we've missed on on Trey just just yet.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just yet.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: But I'll be fair.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: You have a point.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Um again, I just you know, Trey makes the shots look too hard to me.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Um uh but you're 6'5, so at some point you're gonna have to figure out how to play, but then that you know, that world of Garf.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: The hard thing is is being fair with with anybody on the Wizards based on what we've observed from them.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: Like we we have no idea in a proper offense with a set rotation, with roles clearly defined, what um Johnson's gonna be capable of.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Because we got none of that.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: What we got was a version of him finding his NBA legs kind of in a willy-nilly way, right?
25:36
SPEAKER_01: They were at different points in time, you know, showed some flashes.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: I liked it when CJ McCollum was here because you could see the apprenticeship, you know, you could see his impact on, and I understood also why they had to trade CJ McCollum because they could not have that Wizards team winning too many games, and they were on a winning streak, they had won five of seven games right before they traded CJ, and it was there was a a little nucleus getting coming together in that late December, early January time frame where the Washington on offense, the defense was abysmal all season long, it never improved.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: But on offense, it's like, wait a minute, if Keyshawn and Trey Johnson and CJ McCollum and Alex Sarr are on the floor, uh you know, kind of together, there's something going on.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: There's there is an inside-outside kind of thing here.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's scored all three levels.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: A little.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: I know.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: It was just like a little bit of a glimmer.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a little.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: I would say, I would say, like, you know, letting go to your point, like, you know, when Danny Avia was just a sort of afterthought and within the team from the jump, and he just never really got a shot um to really shine and become a star like he is, immediately leaves and becomes an all-star.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Like and again, like sort of like you can see his skill level.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: He's making noise, he's leading a team and and running in offense and and uh showing toughness and grit and his ability to you know game out certain scenarios within the course of a game, you know, taking the right shots, when to take the right shots, making the right path, like all of it.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all like he's a revelation.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, revelation automatically in one year.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I feel like maybe that that sort of I want to see that sort of transformation in Trey Johnson in over now.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying over our year, but uh obviously I've been in the league for a couple of years at this point.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean Denny, remember, he got some he was on the team when when Westbrook uh was here, the one year we had with Russell Westbrook, and I give Russell Westbrook an an amazing amount of credit for not just you know his time here and his relentless competitiveness and and raising the competitiveness of that team.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: The last time Washington made the playoffs, Russell Westbrook was here.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: It's because Russell Westbrook was here and he just wouldn't accept the level of competitiveness below his own standard.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: But he was very impactful, I believe, in Denny's development.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: He he taught Denny, and Denny will say so.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you go back and find the interviews from around that era or even afterwards, Denny gives Russell Westbrook a lot of credit for helping him understand um what it is to be uh an NBA competitor.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's a class act.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, but obviously having some sort of mentorship there.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: And just to your point, you you know, you just said that the way that um that Westbrook was there for Denny Avia, maybe uh CJ at least in one year made that difference for hopefully for a few other a few of the players, not just one.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: For sure, for sure.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Because I see Keyshawn George being uh like like he's like that.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: I feel like he can take take a step up and and and make some noise too, like next year within a within a finding an identity, like you know.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we'll see.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: So five years from now, you know, this draft is over.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: First of all, I'm not convinced any of these guys are generational talents, like the way I people are talking like, oh, he's he's this is the next Wemby or Cooper Flag.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm I don't see any of that in this draft.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Well that's wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's let's you need to to I I don't put Wemby and and Cooper Flag in the same conversation.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think Cooper Flag is a lot closer to these guys.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: Cooper Flag belongs in a different conversation.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Wemby is a one-of-one.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: There's nobody.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm agreeing with you.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying that in conversations I've seen, people have been like first of all, let me let's be clear.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: Wemby is he's uh he's a generational talent in the way that we see Shaq and Kobe and Jordan and you know, those guys.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: He's in a different and then there are guys who make themselves generational talents like KD and Steph Curry and those guys.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh to some extent, Anthony Davis, maybe, right?
29:53
SPEAKER_00: To some extent.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say that.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: He's all right, yes, yes.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Flag, we don't know.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: He's too big is TBD, he's too young and inexperienced and all.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not saying that.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Wimby came in and it was automatically.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: So I'd very good.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Very good.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: I just hear people saying that.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying in this draft, I don't see people, I don't I don't necessarily see someone coming in and being the transformational organizational uh world changer, the way that people, you know, like that.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Like people are saying this is the best draft since LeBron's draft, which was obviously um uh uh um Carmelo Anthony and Dwayne Wade and LeBron.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Um and I think that's fair.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Chris Bosch was in the Chris Bosch, Chris Bosch, yep.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yep.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: That's a big draft.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: I honestly think that's fair.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: I do too, kinda.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: As you said, none of them are LeBron.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: None of them are LeBron.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: But I think all of them are going to be multiple time that they have the potential.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: All of the guys that we're talking about in the top sort of five slots have the ability to be multiple time all-stars, guys that can immediately come in and contribute to NBA teams, can play in the in a rotation, and if their team situation permits it, play in the playoffs.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: Like the way that we saw VJ Edgecomb be ready to play playoff basketball for the Philadelphia 76ers.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: I will forever continue to have a bitter pill, bitter taste for the Sixers, completely undeserved luckbox into that draft pick.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: God, look at evil.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it feels like Vijay Edgecomb on this Washington team and what that would have done to accelerate.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: Now, they would have had to sit his ass of this most recent season because it seemed like Washington has always been pointing towards this draft uh in terms of its goals, but they might have had to shuffle some of their thinking around that because Vijay Edgecomb, to me, I I did this early in the NBA season and never moved off of it.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: He was my rookie of the year.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: I thought what he did in Philadelphia, his ability to seamlessly integrate um with Maxie, he raised the overall level of that franchise.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: That franchise was prepared to tread water last season, and they had to themselves reset their expectation.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: And you the accomplishment of beating the Celtics in the first round, that's a real thing.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's legit.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: And Edgecomb was the reason that they got to the number of regular season wins.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: So I'll stop my BJ Edgecomb.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: This is why when you said Cooper Flag is his generation transformation, like he ain't my rookie of the year.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: He didn't do anything that impressed me.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: 50 points as a teenager is incredible.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: It is awesome.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: Very good.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: It is legit.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: But what were the stakes?
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Tell me what what pressure he had on him.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: I watched VJ Edgecombe when there were stakes.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: When it mattered.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: We watched Dylan Harper when there were stakes.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely right.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: Dylan Harper.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes, sir.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes, sir.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Unfreaking real.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: He's not in that class in terms of what we're talking about in the accomplishment of this recently completed season, only because San Antonio wasn't sure what they wanted to do with that man.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: And they had the they they had back then and they still have a D Aaron Fox problem.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: They sent Dylan Harper down to the G-League for Christ's sakes over the course of this regular season.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: I would you're right.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: It's we must include like that draft might end up being the draft to say it'll be back-to-back years if we're lucky of the NBA with with 10 talents, right?
33:35
SPEAKER_01: Because Khan Knippel obviously was was impactful.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: Could have been rookie of the year if he didn't finish like a little weaker than Cooper Flag, but he was way up on that.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was neck and neck with so yes, you're you're anyway, right.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: I I think I think I mean I'm a I'm a Spurs guy, so like Dylan Dylan Harper was my guy like throughout the year, and I just thought the way that he now stat-wise and all that kind of stuff, I'm ignorant.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about playmaking.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, I see the same, the same way I saw like James Harden come off the bench back in the day for OKC.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: I I literally see the same path and and chart for uh Dylan Harper going forward to even leave.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Except I don't want him to leave.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: He's gonna have to stay.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: So every everyone else can go.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, the internet has a lot of trades for De'Aaron Fox already figured out.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: It's hard at work moving De'Aaron Fox.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: I just I mean last week my my uh my episode was called Firefox.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: And I thought I came up with that and I looked and I see everyone doing the same thing.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh man, I thought I was clever.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: I thought I was clever.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: And uh, but you know, we'll see.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm not ready.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm not fully ready to give up on on uh now's not the time anyway.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: Now's not the time, not with the salary, not not in the offseason.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: So we'll see.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: I just think, you know, when it's all said and done, the dust is settled, and you have, you know, you have AJ Devansa, Darren Peterson, Boozer, A Cuff, uh Caleb Wilson match next to this last year's draft, which was also spectacular.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: We've had two years of bananas drafting.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: So uh after a year where, you know, the the best players to find Castle, right?
35:30
SPEAKER_01: Reese is remains a work in progress for Atlanta.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Saar is is untapped potential still.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh Castle ended up being the the top because Reed Shepard went in that top five.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Donovan Klingan went in that top five.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: Donovan Klingon, wow.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, his last few games, uh half of the season, I was I was playing fantasy basketball and I had him on my team.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: He was lighting it up from three minutes.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, he can play.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: He can play.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: He was an important part of that Portland um turnaround.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he helped him go to the playoffs along with that.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: So uh any other thoughts about the the the draft?
36:11
SPEAKER_00: The Wizards?
36:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm kind of prepared for anything um because in the same way you have you've got your sources.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, my phone is filled up with oh, you don't don't forget about Pete, don't sleep on Peterson.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: And so I I have myself sort of psychologically prepared for Washington to maybe surprise folks, but most of the incoming that I get suggests that it's gonna be um the Banza, and it's very easy for me to to embrace the Bonsa as the overall number one.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: I just have to make a decision whether I'm gonna call them the Banza or Debonsa, and I'll it'll just be a work in progress through throughout the year.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: What would piss you off for the Wizards?
36:49
SPEAKER_00: What would make you like like shake your head and say, What the hell, dude?
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Nothing, nothing.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: There's not I I mean the the the I trust explicitly and implicitly the decision makers that are now in place in Washington.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: There isn't, to me, any outlier scenario.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the the only thing I I I don't know.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: I you have to make up something crazy to get to yourself yourself to a place where um you know you you'd be disappointed in whatever Washington does.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: It feels like a can't miss.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: Like you have three top picks, four really top, really three, let's just say.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Like you cannot screw this up.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: You can't screw this up at all.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: So I I don't really have a scenario where I'll be like, like, what the hell, dude?
37:41
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I don't think so.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: I just I just don't want Danny Ange to fool us again, like fool, not us.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: I just don't want him to fool.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't want him to pull the 76ers, you know what I mean?
37:51
SPEAKER_00: Like Mark L.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: Faultz for Jason Tatum situation.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right, right.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: But but we uh the problem is you can't tell.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: Like you just have no idea.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't seem like uh trade is in the offing because it's very quiet in that respect.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't seem like Washington and Utah are gonna be involved in in a trade.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: And I really have come to believe um what the folks in Utah, the the insiders in Utah are speculating around the fit of Cam Boozer for that team.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: But that could be misdirection.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: It could be the the Danny Ainge is definitely capable of some misdirection.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: I just don't know, you know, if if he's if the point of it is to see if there's any interest by anybody that that's you know further back that would want to trade up.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, does Memphis want to do something extra crazy to ensure that they get Cam Boozer?
38:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, because they you know there's a lot of connection between um perfect fit, though the Duke, you know, sort of brain trust and and and the folks running um the Memphis situation and and and what you know how seamlessly Boozer would fit in in Memphis.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: It would be a really great fit for them.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Is is Ainge being quiet so that you know he maybe can engender some interest out of Memphis and have Memphis do something.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: They just did a trade, they know how to be trade partners, right?
39:09
SPEAKER_01: They just Utah gave them a whole bunch of stuff for Triple J.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe they want their phone, the phone lines are open.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't think they'd be mad if if somehow that Memphis Christly ended up with AJ Deb AJ Demand.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't think they'd be mad.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I don't think they'd be mad at all.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: So wow, I I don't know how they make it happen, but yeah, yes, yeah, I agree.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: All right, man.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining me, man.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: This has been a really great conversation.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: I know you have to run to another thing as as you do.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: Big V, anytime you call, uh you know I'm picking up the phone, buddy.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: You you just say the word.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: We could do this for another hour.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: I was I was trying to figure out a way to close.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, I want to talk about this, I'm gonna talk about that.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: But he's busy.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh I appreciate you coming on.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh Joe every Joe House, everybody for the ringer.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Check him out on uh all things on ringer, find him on X, find him on Netflix, find him on everything else.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh so thanks for joining us, Joe.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Always Big B.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: And we appreciate all of you joining us for State of Play.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, we didn't get into it today, but we sit at the intersection of sports, politics, and pop culture.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: No topic is safe.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: None.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: This is just the beginning of hot take summer.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: In the coming weeks, we're gonna have some exciting guests and some exciting topics, but you'll just have to tune in.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Until then, Aui, and thank you for joining us on State of Play.