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S3 Ep 3 - Class Review: Wizard · Bards and Barrels

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Bards and Barrels.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: Today we're coming at you with a review of the Wizard Class.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: And there's the opening crack.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Fill in the saddle today with Brett and Ross.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: How are we doing tonight, fellas?
0:27
SPEAKER_00: Hey, we're back.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Season three of Class Reviews.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, it's time.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: We're hitting you with a fun one tonight.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Tonight.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: The big the bad.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't know about bad, but it's a big one.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: The intimidating one.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Could be bad.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: The wizard.
0:42
SPEAKER_04: It's the reason we left it almost to the end.
0:44
SPEAKER_04: It's like, oh my god.
0:46
SPEAKER_04: First thoughts.
0:47
SPEAKER_04: You get a spell.
0:48
SPEAKER_04: You get a spell.
0:50
SPEAKER_04: God.
0:51
SPEAKER_04: Uh so so for me, when I when I built my character that I'll share later, I I think the the actual building minus the spells part was much simpler than I remember it being.
1:01
SPEAKER_04: It's been a long time since I built a wizard because I've avoided them for so long.
1:04
SPEAKER_04: And coming back to it, I'm like, oh, this isn't so bad.
1:07
SPEAKER_04: And then I got to the spell list.
1:08
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, shit.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: This is a lot, and I don't know why half these do.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: When you're trying to learn how to play, just getting everything under your feet is one thing, but then trying to learn spells and lots of spells and pick from those spells on the fly, woo.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: This is a this can be a challenging one.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of reading, just to like read through the spells and pick understand what they do.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, well, I need some utility spells, I need some protection spells, I need some area of effect spells.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's a lot.
1:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you put that much thought into it.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, I was just like, well, that's cool.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: But I know that that's I didn't know that was a thing.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Add that.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: No, usually I look through the list, I'm like, that sounds badass.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: I'll take it.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: But this is one of the most popular classes.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, especially this is DD.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: It's fantasy, right?
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, everybody wants to cast spells.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants to be Harry Potter.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Or Gandalf.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: It's Hermione.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she wants to be honest, but it's fine.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: In the world of Harry Potter, it's her.
2:12
SPEAKER_04: Everybody wants to be Merlin from the Sword and the Stone.
2:15
SPEAKER_04: I will fight anybody.
2:17
unknown: Okay.
2:19
SPEAKER_04: Any 90s kid wants to be Merlin under the cons.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: No.
2:23
SPEAKER_04: Okay, wow.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: One thing we wanted to mention up top here, though.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: So obviously they've got some 2024 rule books that are coming out.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Maybe have just released.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Know that we're going to talk a little bit about both.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: So some of us are still using the 2014 handbook.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Has a few more options out there, I guess I would say, as far as subclasses go.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: But we did want to make sure to mention that, you know, obviously the new rule book is out.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: And there are some changes there.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: So we'll hit on a couple of those throughout the uh the review today as well.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: But let's go ahead and move into pros and cons of the wizard.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: I'll get the the easy one out of the way.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: The con is you are a glass cannon.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: You have no health.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: Like if a monster looks at you wrong, you can drop.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: Shh.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: If they sneeze in your direction, you might fall down.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: But for for anyone who's unfamiliar with the term, what's the canon part?
3:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh you've got a lot of power behind all those possible spells that we talked about.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Right, you can do a lot of different things.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Which is a huge pro for this class.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: It's it's the main thing of this class.
3:44
SPEAKER_04: I think it's one of those things where like if you've listened back through class reviews that we've done in the past where we talk about like characters that are gonna be up front being um uh taking the hits, you know, dealing a lot of the damage, and then support characters, the wizard, at least early on, is gonna be very much a support character.
4:01
SPEAKER_04: Uh con for me, I uh that was actually my first con as well was glass cannon.
4:06
SPEAKER_04: My character that I'm gonna talk about later has nine hit points, but it also has some cool spells that can do some damage.
4:12
SPEAKER_04: Has an 11 for an armor class, though.
4:15
SPEAKER_04: But again, the pro on this is that spell list.
4:19
SPEAKER_04: Okay, it's very intimidating.
4:20
SPEAKER_04: It takes a lot to go through and pick out your spells, but you do have ways to get around some of that glass cannon stereotype because you'll have things like mage armor, but the the kicker on those is you have to use a spell slot to use your mage armor, so you're gonna lose valuable spell slots trying to protect yourself.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh you have to make choices, right?
4:40
SPEAKER_00: Um I'll throw one of the pro columns since we're it's a little running a little light right now for what is a great class.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Um it's I think one of the only classes, if not the only one, that your saving throws you have um efficiency in intelligence and wisdom, too.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: So like pretty good hitters.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, I consider that a pro.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you're glass tanky, but um glass tanky.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: That's a new term.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: I do actually kind of like it.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh glass cannon.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Glass tanky.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Canon tank, you know, whatever.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
5:16
SPEAKER_04: It's fine.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think you shouldn't be a tank.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: I would I would say another pro for this one is that you can have multiple wizards at the table and be okay.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: Like you can play these in two very, very distinct different ways and make them work very easily together.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: That's one I had too, like variability in what you did for sure.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: I we'll get into kind of you know the different subclasses and arcane traditions and stuff uh here in a little bit, but you could be playing completely different styles of magic too, which totally changes how your character plays.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: I think Ross hit on something too that I don't know we've done an episode on it yet, maybe we should, but you know, playing into what role in the party does your character have?
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, are you a you know back line, you know, wand slinger in essence, and you're just gonna stay out of you know the melee and just are you there to do damage?
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Are you there to buff your party?
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Like w what's your role?
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Battlefield control, yeah.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: All sorts of different possibilities to fill the gaps of whatever party you're in.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: Alright, I think that um we we already mentioned a couple kind of pop culture references for wizards, and I know there's a quite a few out there.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Um what else do you guys got?
6:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, like the ones we talked about already: Harmony Granger, Gandalf, Merlin, I would even say Alba Stumbledore.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: Um ironically, Doctor Strange, he is known as the Sorcerer Supreme, but I would put him more as a wizard just because he book learned all of his magic.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: I think we even talked about that in our sorcerer episode, and so yeah.
6:56
SPEAKER_04: Uh obligatory mention since uh he fits both categories just by name and by actuality.
7:01
SPEAKER_04: But it's fine.
7:02
SPEAKER_04: You're welcome, Marvel.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh this is this is the class that like you get a lot of really big popular icons of the class.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: And they all kind of sit there and they wear robes and a lot of them wear a pointy hat.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: Like they all kind of look the same.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: They they're different from each other, but behind the scenes are very similar.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: They're all book nerds, they're all like correct studious.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I love to so it kind of taking it out of the realm of fantasy, even too.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: If you think of like wizards just as being someone who's very learned at what they do, like I feel like some chefs almost could classify like as wizards with the things that they can do and the things that they've learned from schooling, um, some scientists.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: Even inventors, like I would even say Elon Musk, like he came to mind.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like he's kind of a wizard at what he does.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: You can like him or hate him, but a modern day one, maybe chaotic neutral, it's fine.
8:07
SPEAKER_04: Very, very much so.
8:09
SPEAKER_04: Uh I was thinking like librarians too, or specifically the librarian.
8:14
SPEAKER_04: If you guys ever saw that uh TV movie way back in the day.
8:20
SPEAKER_04: Very Indiana Jones-esque type character.
8:22
SPEAKER_04: On that note, maybe Indiana Jones.
8:25
SPEAKER_04: It's like, wait, maybe.
8:27
SPEAKER_04: I mean, very learned character, but he he's got too many fighters.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: Like martial characteristics to be a wizard, but ranger.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: And he can take a ton of beatings and still be fine.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: And your wizard.
8:40
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, wizard could not do that.
8:41
SPEAKER_04: But your local librarian, maybe.
8:43
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Death by a thousand paper cuts.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, don't stop, stop.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: God, uh just the thought of that.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: You hit on my number one, like, oh sorry, word we think.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Well done.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: You know what he's gonna do in our campaign when we come back.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna die by death by a thousand paper.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: We are falling into like a pit of shredded paper.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: I think you guys are gonna have to go do some research.
9:12
SPEAKER_04: Our library is like Ari's number one fear.
9:14
SPEAKER_04: Not in baths.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: We have not.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have not been.
9:18
SPEAKER_04: We're gonna walk into a room with a bathtub in a library.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: It's not water, it's just sheets of paper.
9:24
SPEAKER_03: Oh god.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: No, okay.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: We've lost it.
9:28
SPEAKER_04: Dungeons and daddies when they're in heaven.
9:30
SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
9:30
SPEAKER_04: Not everyone is there.
9:32
SPEAKER_04: I stopped there.
9:32
SPEAKER_04: I stopped there.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh all right.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: So one of the things we typically hit on um each time we do a class review as well is what does wizards kind of put as the quick build of a character?
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, I don't have access to the 2024 rule book yet, so I don't know if this still lives in the new rule book or not.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: So you're getting this from the 2014 version.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, but what does that quick build look like for the wizard?
9:57
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I mean, as far as we know, this is not changing as of right now when we record this.
10:02
SPEAKER_04: But uh, you're gonna intelligence is gonna be your highest ability score, followed by constitution or dexterity.
10:08
SPEAKER_04: Uh, and then from there it kind of becomes what, again, in the 2014 player's handbook, depending on what school you would go for, may determine what your next ones was.
10:18
SPEAKER_04: So, for instance, if you're gonna go into the school of enchantment, you would probably want to take charisma uh just as an example.
10:23
SPEAKER_04: Um so yeah, that that's kind of the quick build in a nutshell, but that's kind of getting thrown.
10:28
SPEAKER_04: There's gonna we'll talk about this here in a few minutes, but that's gonna get a wrench thrown into it based on uh some of the changes coming in the the 2024 players' handbook.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so a couple of things I think that are important in that quick build, right?
10:39
SPEAKER_00: So intelligence, highest score because it is your spell casting modifier, right?
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: So any of the classes we've talked about that can cast spells, that's always gonna be your highest pick.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Now, we talked about it being a glass cannon, so why constitution as your second?
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Concentration.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: There it is.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: You've gotta a lot of the spells require concentration to keep them active.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: So you need that constitution buffed to be able to keep it through taking some hits.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
11:07
SPEAKER_04: I can't imagine what the HP would look like if you actually move constitution down that list.
11:12
SPEAKER_04: Like it would be so shaddy.
11:14
SPEAKER_04: Complete shad.
11:16
SPEAKER_04: Oh no God.
11:18
SPEAKER_04: It's like thank you.
11:19
SPEAKER_04: Thank you for at least doing that for us.
11:20
SPEAKER_04: I appreciate that.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: One of the things I think interesting out of there too, so they give you a suggestion of a spell list, which I suppose if you didn't want to read through all of the spells and try to figure out what sounds the coolest, you could use the ones that they recommend.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: But uh I would say when you're starting out just looking at that first spell list, uh, if you're doing it on DD Beyond, they have icons next to them based on what type of spell they are.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Pick a variety.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: Like don't take all damage spells.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: Get some other stuff in there and then continue to add to your diversity over time as you continue to level up.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: Don't take spells that all require concentration.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that too.
12:04
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
12:05
SPEAKER_04: So bad.
12:06
SPEAKER_04: Um, I think I think just as an example, if you're a first level character, or not like you're of course you're a first-level character, but this is your first time playing DD, I could see where using those those nine spells they give you makes a lot of sense because they're saying use these because there's a lot of diversity.
12:20
SPEAKER_04: Having gone back and built one of these now, as a at least a more veteran player than what I used to be, I can tell you that I used two of them out of that list.
12:30
SPEAKER_04: So it's kind of an interesting way to think about that.
12:32
SPEAKER_04: That most of those, I'm like, eh, whatever.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: The one tip I would give you though, pick a damage dealing cantrip.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: So, like burning hands or ray of frosts are two examples of those.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: You want something to be able to do in damage when you run out of spell or in for damage when you run out of spell slots.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:52
SPEAKER_04: And this is a good example too of you know, pay attention in your session zero.
12:57
SPEAKER_04: If you have a cleric in the party that can cast light, you don't also have to cast light, have to have cast light as cantripped.
13:02
SPEAKER_04: It's like it's like compared notes, think about that a little bit because nine times light a torch.
13:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we could, couldn't we?
13:10
SPEAKER_04: That turned out so well for us last time.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: Sewer full of gas.
13:14
SPEAKER_04: I just want to make a note here.
13:15
SPEAKER_04: I th in my mind, I thought about bringing that up and I didn't.
13:18
SPEAKER_04: But then Brett brought it up.
13:20
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, just it's not always me.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: See, there's more than one solution to getting light.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: I think when you tried to cast light initially to circumvent this whole situation, uh, that they're like, nope, no thanks.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: I'll light a torch.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure you offered light.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: I did.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: We had just met at the time.
13:37
SPEAKER_04: Stop it.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: We were like two sessions in.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Strangers.
13:44
SPEAKER_04: I mean, technically, because of our background in in the Avernus campaign that they gave us, we who knows how long we were in the freaking flaming fist before that.
13:54
SPEAKER_04: Enough time to apparently plot an assassination or some stupid bullcrap that never showed up again in the campaign.
13:59
SPEAKER_04: Sorry, I'm jumping off track.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: We can go back to that.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: That's that's still the worst part of that published adventure.
14:04
SPEAKER_04: It's like I get it.
14:06
SPEAKER_04: I get why they do that, but it's like why?
14:08
SPEAKER_04: We never ever came back to that.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Yet.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm kidding.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, snap.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: I'd have to go look up one of them.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, snap! You're heroes of the realm now.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Your sins are forgiven.
14:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's fine.
14:20
SPEAKER_04: You saved Eldrael.
14:21
SPEAKER_04: Good job.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, all right.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: So out of that quick build are first level features.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: So obviously, spell casting, right?
14:28
SPEAKER_00: We've got some cantrips, we've got some first level spells when we start out.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing, at least in the 2014 version that you get access to uh at first level is called Arcane Recovery.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: It actually lets you recover some of your spell slots after a short rest, um, which is pretty sweet.
14:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
14:44
SPEAKER_04: I I mean everything in DD, uh if you're playing by the rules, centers around action economy.
14:50
SPEAKER_04: And the worst thing that can happen is a spellcaster is running out of spell slots.
14:53
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
14:54
SPEAKER_04: Especially at low levels, because if you're a wizard and you run out of spell slots with a low HP, you're hanging to the back and not doing much of anything.
15:01
SPEAKER_04: So this at least helps with that, so you're not doing nothing when you get toward the end of a between your long rests, anyway.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the you're gonna be using a lot of spell slots.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: You need you constantly are gonna be looking to get them back.
15:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, oh yeah, for sure.
15:15
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
15:15
SPEAKER_04: Well, and that I mean that's why you get five spell slots from the get-go.
15:18
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I mean, you get you you know three three cantrips and then you get two spell slots, but within the first four levels, you're already up to seven spell slots.
15:26
SPEAKER_04: There's no other class that moves quite that quick.
15:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: So uh and our big feature with the uh wizard is in the 2014 rulebook, it is called the Arcane Tradition.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you are using the 2024 players' handbook, they actually have migrated all of the classes to using the term subclass, uh, which makes a lot of sense as we've kind of internally talked about it.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: That that's a little more consistent across the class uh classes.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Um but it'll be coming at level three instead of level two.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: True.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: They standardize that across the classes too.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: So everyone gets their kind of big feature or main feature archetype tradition at uh third level, which will also make tracking those a little bit easier, I think.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, but let's talk about some of those choices, right?
16:14
SPEAKER_00: So um 2024, you've got four options.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Um they kind of boiled down the larger list that we have in 2014 that'll go through quickly too.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: But 2024, we've got the abdur, um, the illusionist, the diviner, and the evoker.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: So um the abdurer and the illusionist got a couple boosts um kind of compared to what their 2014 counterparts had.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: They built those subclasses out a little bit more.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: The diviner and the evoker are pretty similar to what the 2014 had, um, if you happen to play those ones before.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: So, what are those, right?
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Those are basically schools of magic, right?
16:54
SPEAKER_00: So abjuration typically focuses on defensive style of magic, um, illusionist as it sounds, uh, would be creating illusions, but uh typically deceiving others.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, something that kind of can distract uh the diviner uh focuses on predicting the future, gaining information.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: You can think of divination, obviously, is uh the root term of that.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: And then the evoker, that's your battle magic, you're dealing damage with your spells, you're heavy hitter style.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: So where we're at in 2014, kind of before we move just to these four, there are a few other options if you're using that older handbook.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Um so there's uh the school of conjuration, which specializes in summoning uh both creatures and objects.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: There's the school of enchantment, so manipulating minds and emotions, um, the school of necromancy, manipulating life and death, death, the school of transmutation, uh alters the form and nature of objects and creatures.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: And then there are a couple supplemental items out there.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Um so even if you are using the new rule book, it's supposed to be backwards compatible, so you could use uh like the Blade Singer.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: Um that comes out of the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide that combines your spellcasting with weapon mastery.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a neat sort of um marrying of those two items.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: And then Xanathor's Guide to Everything has um war magic, and that combines spellcasting with martial prowess.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: I will say when they say war, they do mean the word war, not necessarily just small scale battle.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Some of those um kind of benefits of that particular subclass point to a larger scale battle.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Um just kind of reading through that.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: So I just want to throw that out there in case someone's like, oh, that sounds awesome.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: And then you start playing it and you're like, this isn't that applicable to my campaign.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: So uh, and that's for the most part, there are a couple um, you know, odd more obscure ones that are out there, um, but those are the major ones that we see uh right now.
18:57
SPEAKER_04: I would say uh just as an example of the war magic, uh, if anybody remembers in Lord of the Rings when um Gandalf rides over the hill with the the army when they're fighting at Minastereth, like how he's like that general, general-esque type wizard, that would be your war magic style, right?
19:15
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
19:15
SPEAKER_04: If you're not if you're not commanding thousands of troops, probably not what you're gonna go for.
19:20
SPEAKER_04: This is not like eight-person battle style com command here.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: And one of the new things in the 2024 handbook is all of those subclasses, um, as you continue leveling up, you will get a spell from that subclass on every level.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's the first time you get two spells, but after that, every single time, you'll get an additional spell from that list.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: That is kind of nice because if you look through the wizard table as it stands in the 2014 version, there are like some levels you get nothing.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: But you're you're constantly going to be getting something, and that's one of the big pushes that they're making for this update is really leaning into those subclasses and build giving you buffs throughout your adventure.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: I like that a lot.
20:07
SPEAKER_04: That makes sense.
20:07
SPEAKER_04: And we didn't mention that in the con, but that that is definitely a con.
20:10
SPEAKER_04: And it's like basically every other level in between ability score improvements, you're not gaining much.
20:15
SPEAKER_04: So it's like it's like a long slog to get somewhere, which is it's a turnoff, to be honest.
20:22
SPEAKER_04: Like it's like, gosh, if I'm not gonna get cool things every other level or at least every level, then it's like why bother?
20:28
SPEAKER_00: I will say too, so we talked about these different, you know, subclasses that exist that are out there.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: You're not married to your subclass as far as picking your spells go.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: Right?
20:37
SPEAKER_00: Like that's one thing to note.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: So if you're gonna be the evoker, you don't just have to pick spells that deal damage or that are of an evocation type.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you get to pick through all of the the tons of options uh that a wizard gets, and their list dwarfs any other class.
20:58
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
20:59
SPEAKER_04: Well, okay, so so a good example of that is if you're playing 5e, and and a lot of you probably are, uh well, actually everybody probably is because 20 20 24 is just coming out, but you could buy spell cards on Amazon or wherever you wanted, and it's like the cleric spell box or the the paladin spell box, where like it was like five bucks, and it was this little tiny less than a deck of cards, but then the arcane, which is the arcane spell list, is what the wizard uses.
21:25
SPEAKER_04: That one is actually worth paying the money because there's like 200 cards in there, plus like 50 blank cards for coming up with your own spells because you have the ability to do that.
21:34
SPEAKER_04: Uh, I played a wizard as my first character.
21:36
SPEAKER_04: Bad idea, would not recommend that.
21:38
SPEAKER_04: Um, but when I did that, I bought the arcane spell book cards and a spell book to try to keep track of that.
21:44
SPEAKER_04: It also, because one of the wizard's features is his spells are all his or her spells are all in a book.
21:49
SPEAKER_04: Like you are actually maintaining that book.
21:51
SPEAKER_04: So I bought a little spell book to keep my spells in and then swap them in and out on rest as needed, just to keep track of that, because it's so hard to keep track.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: of it's like I mean you're starting with 50 spells that you have to go through in the first place and then it's like knowing which ones I'd use, not use, all that jazz is just a pain in the butt.
22:08
SPEAKER_04: A physical spell book actually helps that.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't think we really hit on that well, Ross, so I'm glad that you brought it up.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: But you do have a physical spell book, right?
22:18
SPEAKER_00: That maintains the spells that you have.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And there's a difference between the number of spells you know and the number of spells you can prepare.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: And you can only swap out your prepared spells on a long rest unless you get some sort of like a subclass feature later on, I believe.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Did I miss any components of that?
22:36
SPEAKER_04: Um I don't think so.
22:37
SPEAKER_04: I think Brett, when we were talking before the before we started recording this mentioned that there was a change coming in 2024 where you can swap out spells at a more regular pace.
22:47
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: So you with twin the 2024 rules you can change out one of your cantrips every long rest completely.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: But you can also memorize a spell starting from level five.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: So that means that you can choose a spell from your prepared spell list and then swap it out with another one from your spell book every time you take a short rest.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: So you couldn't switch up like as many maybe as you can on a long rest because there's like a calculation for that but you could at least swap out one.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh that's handy.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: And the spell book is one area that I think gives a lot of possibility for loot items for your DM to give you.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah absolutely like if you have like if your DM can just randomly drop a spell scroll along the way you can learn that spell from the scroll.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Copy it in your spell book.
23:39
SPEAKER_04: So something something worth homebrewing or or at least creating a table for rule for this is I I think if you read through the actual rules if you find a spell scroll and you want to copy it into your book not only do you have to do that at a certain time it costs money to do that.
23:53
SPEAKER_04: It costs gold to do that.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: Costs 50 gold pieces per level of the spell and takes two hours.
24:01
SPEAKER_04: So when you're building your character and it asks you like what your daily allowance is don't choose meager.
24:06
SPEAKER_04: You want to be the rich librarian wizard uh getting a pretty solid income.
24:12
SPEAKER_04: Your school loans have been forgiven it's fine.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: But that that idea does lend a lot to I options for you to be able to do something during downtime.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah absolutely that is like your gimme option that you're probably going to be taking most of the time if your DM is running downtime where you get to pick what you do during this like traversal period.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:36
SPEAKER_04: And don't don't underestimate like the role playing part of your spell book at like the the the description in the player's handbook and I don't know if this is going to be in the new player's handbook but it goes as far as like really describe what your spell book looks like and it have a backstory for just your spell book.
24:52
SPEAKER_04: How did you get it?
24:53
SPEAKER_04: What's it been through?
24:54
SPEAKER_04: Why does it have a tattered cover?
24:55
SPEAKER_04: And that it that's how important it is to the character creation is they want you to describe the book you're carrying.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Or are you meticulously handwriting perfect notes in it and it is like a pristine item for you to carry.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:09
SPEAKER_04: What fits your character I think I think a good example of of what I think about when I think of this spell book is have you guys seen uh Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade?
25:20
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
25:20
SPEAKER_04: The the father's book the Grail book like how he has this little journal with like paper shoved into it with all these little notes scribbled into it.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: That's a wizard's spell book in a nutshell that fits 100% right and then another wizard picks it up and is trying to read from the other wizard's notes.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: And for a thousand GP he can copy the whole thing for one low price and hours and hours and hours days.
25:47
SPEAKER_04: Wally we spend a whole session negotiating with the DM how much it costs and how much time you had to spend to get that spellbook.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Jehovah is spelled with an I.
25:56
SPEAKER_04: What is it in Hebrew Jehovah starts with an I that is my favorite part of that's a good one tangent type.
26:05
SPEAKER_04: Anyway all right let's know we talked about uh what a wizard looks like let's talk about some wizards that we built so we each created a level one character in DD Beyond uh using the wizard class who wants to start us off tonight uh I'll go first um I created Agnes Stonekin and Agnes I I should say is a hearken back to my original wizard his name was Agnes as well uh but Agnes Stonekin is a male hilt dwarf wizard so he's a short little guy but still wears the long wizard road long for him anyway.
26:37
SPEAKER_04: It's like a train.
26:38
SPEAKER_04: Yes yes exactly exactly yes uh I had some incredible rolls for this guy I think I rolled three 15s that helped a lot because I could just put those 15s right in the top three so of course I led with intelligence uh constitution and then where did I put the other one?
26:57
SPEAKER_04: Not charisma wisdom wisdom yep so I have a a plus three in intelligence a plus two in constitution and a plus two in wisdom uh I did not have to dump that far for strength I only have a plus zero for strength which is amazing uh considering that could have been way worse uh and an armor class of 11 which seems pretty good for this guy uh backstory I took the sage background I did very much what the book wanted you to in this one um but back to that con I I became very overwhelmed immediately opening up that 50 possible spells that you can choose from like immediately I was like even though I know some of them now I'm like what the hell is that I've never seen that spell you're only looking through cantrips and level one yeah no kidding that's like Jesus so I I ended up going with uh so back to your point about like choosing like a balanced well the three cantrips I took were acid splash fire bolt and mage hand this is a damage dealing camera he is an angry little dwarf uh and then the two spells that I was able to attack uh able to attack I was able to take here we go he's ready to go magic missile and then he took mage armor to cover his butt essentially uh because wizards are not proficient in any type of saying F the party I'm gonna own this is mage armor a bonus action at least uh let me see no it costs a full action so basic yes so it's basically if you find yourself in a very bad position and you're not gonna get out you cast mage armor on your hook on yourself and hope for the best that's literally what it is I hate to say that but it is your first turn mage armor and run like exactly yes just get out um he has a very short quarter staff that he carries with him uh my original one my original wizard had a quarter staff too but I you know think of that being like a six foot one no this one this guy's is like three foot tall has a tiny staff he's a tiny that's what she said gets made fun of all the time uh but then so the interesting thing that that kind of adds a little tweak to this that I think was really fun and then I'll try to wrap this up is that because he is a dwarf he has the dwarven combat training racial trait which allows him to be proficient in battle axes hand axes light hammers and war hammers because otherwise a wizard would not be proficient in any of those weapons so he could take one of those and at least be able to hit with some authority on something potentially that's something we didn't really touch on is that armor proficiencies weapon proficiencies proficiencies uh tool proficiencies almost nothing yeah no armor no tools weapons you by base you only get daggers darts slings quarter staffs and light cross pose and all very light damage dealing things basically a way for you to whack and get out like I said take a damage dealing cantrip absolutely or find some racial traits that allow you to have better weapons yeah so uh other than that I mean everything was pretty pretty uh uh toe in the line of what a normal wizard would be so uh if I think of anything while you guys are going I'll I'll hop back in and mention it but I think that was that pretty much well sums it up.
30:09
SPEAKER_04: How about you Brett?
30:10
SPEAKER_01: Alright I came up with the great the magnificent the tiny blip nibbleton blip love it so blip is a rock gnome wizard uh rock gnomes are typically uh three to four feet tall blip was kind of the runt of the litter he's on his tippy toes standing about two and a half feet tall wow he tiny so blip was always kind of the runt of the litter and didn't get to go out and play with all the other little rock gnomes.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: And so Blip stayed inside and read books.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Lots and lots of books uh and eventually ended up leaving his family and going to Candle Keep uh and was one of the the janitorial staff at Candle Keep and was able to pick up and learn lots and lots of books from Candle Keep.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: But Blip is rocking an 18 intelligence from reading all those books starting out at level one with a 17 in constitution so plus three there.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Nice uh it goes down quickly out of that wisdom's decent charisma's yeah uh dexterity coming in at a seven so a minus two dex oh no and then a five for strength negative three on strength that was two twos and two ones that I had to roll real bad so blip will not be getting in the front line ever uh but for spells not gonna be climbing any trees either with that dexterity nope sitting in the back and watching all the big guys roll in how the hell does he see when he's in the back you can see between their legs it's where the hell are you guys at uh but blip is coming at you with firebolt mage hand and minor illusion for candrips and then first level spells detect magic and shield all right there you go so Phil that's my little guy who are you coming at with it okay hang on just a second at some point I have to imagine that blip would have the plane shifting spell and then you just gotta be like blip out baby but no one notices it's a bubble pop okay I'm sorry go ahead um all right I tonight have um a Lara Erlon a high elf wizard um she grew up in the secluded academy of Erlon so it's actually like a distant relative that founded this kind of secluded academy um deep in the elven forest study of arcane magic and philosophy both um long story short because I wrote a huge magic story that we don't have time to get into today um but uh she fell in love with another student while she was there that student passed while performing some like pretty dark experiments um and kind of sent her down this path of like wanting to learn how to achieve immortality without becoming evil.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: So she's on a pursuit of lishdom but doesn't want to intentionally become evil so she's struggling with the grasp where that line lies.
33:45
SPEAKER_04: That's how you get an unintentional evil person.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we'll find that but anyway doing the wrong things for the right reasons or right something something reasonable I don't know stay tuned for our alignment episode.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about it in the alignment episode.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: But she rolled well so um we've got an 18 in intelligence for that plus four modifier uh sixteens in both constitution and wisdom for plus three modifiers and then strength was my dump as well um but it wasn't a five it was a nine oh that's decent so only minus one to those strength scores um but high elf gets um some extra spells and some extra weapon proficiencies as well um so I picked up uh cantrip wise I got four so I've got firebolt mage hand poison spray and toll the dead and then such a good spell well I felt like it felt kind of necromancy kind of part that's where she would be going which I know is a 2014 school but hardcore school of necromancy um then first level spells prepared are charm person false life magic missile shield and sleep so try to kind of get a combination sure I love the sleep spell which you guys know I've used it before in other classes but it's a great spell or silence like sleep silence those spells fantastic Charles um nothing else was really standoutish so I went with quarter staff um and I think oh I chose a crystal as my spell focus because I felt like she would have gotten that from that other student actually love that's where that comes from cool um all right final thoughts on the wizard class I would say you're going to be a book nerd book nerd of some sort like that's just kind of who the big wizard is if you can find a way to do that that's not a book nerd I'm impressed.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: But I think you need to look beyond that when you're creating your character and give them depth on why do you care about learning so much and why do you want to be a part of your party?
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: So you're going out on this adventure you're leaving the library why I'd push you to get a little bit more to your character before you get started.
36:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah what are your characters' goals and like what are they trying to achieve I'm gonna use my brief moment here um for my the final thought to tell you why uh should you or shouldn't you play this and and honestly after coming back to this I still say probably not and seeing the changes that are coming in 2024 I say definitely not not.
36:34
SPEAKER_04: And honestly if it's something you want to do you want to give it a shot go for it.
36:38
SPEAKER_04: But but here's the reason why if this is your first time playing that spell list is no matter any changes they make is still going to be really hard for a first time player.
36:47
SPEAKER_04: Because of the changes they're making I feel like there's less flexibility in what you can do.
36:52
SPEAKER_04: So it's like you're not going to be able to become that necromancer now because that's kind of going away maybe you could wedge that in somewhere in how they're doing it but it's just like it just feels like you can't make what you want to make with a wizard.
37:04
SPEAKER_04: Like you're very stuck in that nerdy trope and there's flexibility in what you can do with that but it's like you're stuck on that path though is how it feels to me.
37:12
SPEAKER_04: And if if you really want to be a spellcaster there are so many other classes that have good spellcasting lists that aren't intimidating that give you lots of power lots of buffing lots of healing without having to go down the road of a wizard and you can swing weapons with them.
37:29
SPEAKER_04: You can wedge your way in and find some loopholes with a wizard but it comes natively with so many other classes I'll counter it.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: I have like I see you thinking I have a counter too so you go first.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: That is all well and good at first level I think wizard becomes their own the further you get when you get more and more and more it's like my precious you want more spells and you get access to them and you can really get a lot wrapped into your character the further you go with it.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
38:03
SPEAKER_04: My counter to your counter would be but you have to be ready to do it.
38:06
SPEAKER_04: You have to be ready to do it and the biggest punches you're gonna be able to throw come after level 10 and how are you willing to play this character through level 10?
38:16
SPEAKER_04: That would be my only thing.
38:18
SPEAKER_04: But I do agree with you you're right.
38:19
SPEAKER_04: I mean you can make big punches and create an absolutely powerful character out of this no doubt there.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: So mine I'll wrap it into my final thoughts too so I think as a first time player this is an intimidating class for sure.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Because there are really just in the in the spell list primarily and making sure you understand like how your prepared spells work how your spell book works once I think you've mastered that and you get more familiar with the spells understand how they work know which ones you like I don't necessarily think that it's an overly complicated class but it gives you a ton of flexibility to build the style of magician if you will that you want.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Whereas your some of your other classes are a little more limited by some of your other classes are a little bit more limited by the magic type.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: So Cleric obviously divine magic sorcerer is a little more wild magic or you know from a bloodline you have a little more flexibility I feel like with this character.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: So I I don't know I it's a challenging class I don't want to steer people away from it too much because like we mentioned earlier it is that quintessential like fantasy magic class.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: It's the mage right it is the mage so I think if you want to jump into DD and go for it this is a good class if you're if you're all in on playing DD this is a good one to keep you engaged.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: If you're not quite there and if you're toe in the line on if you really want to do this, maybe not wizard.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: It also takes the right party.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes so you do have to take that into account like you can't play a wizard if you have no frontline support.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: You will die.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely what you're saying blip can't hold his own blip needs at least one rogue in that party and three clerics yeah all right well that is going to do it for this episode of Bards and Barrels.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: You can listen to past episodes of the show anywhere podcasts can be found.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube at Bards and Barrels.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: We'll see you soon