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Murdaugh: VERDICT WATCH · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we haven't just come
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Speaker 1: out of the courtroom, and what a morning it has been.
0:16
Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thanks for being
0:19
Speaker 1: with us. We are live at the courthouse here at
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Speaker 1: Colleton County. I want you to hear the first thing
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Speaker 1: this morning, how the whole session got kicked off. Take
0:29
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut nine. A few days ago,
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Speaker 1: I received a complaint from a member of the public
0:39
Speaker 1: indicating that a juror had engaged in improper conversations with
0:48
Speaker 1: parties not associated with the case. J or denied discussing
0:53
Speaker 1: the case with anyone not on the jury or with
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Speaker 1: anyone onto Cherry provided information that led us to contact
1:05
Speaker 1: the persons that she was suspected of having conversations with
1:10
Speaker 1: concerning the case. Those individuals were interviewed and provided an
1:21
Speaker 1: affid David regarding the contact that the jury had juror
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Speaker 1: had with them and not suggesting that you intentionally did
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Speaker 1: anything wrong, but that in order to preserve the integrity
1:38
Speaker 1: of the process and in fairness to all the parties involved,
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Speaker 1: we're going to replace you with one of the other jurors.
1:48
Speaker 1: She just heard sound of the judge dismissing a juror.
1:54
Speaker 1: Guys with me an all star panel to make sense
1:56
Speaker 1: of what's happening in the courtroom right now? Straight out
1:58
Speaker 1: to Eric Bland, hyper if I a lawyer who represented
2:01
Speaker 1: a satafil family, Eric, I can't hear you, but I
2:04
Speaker 1: hope you can hear me. What do you make of
2:07
Speaker 1: the judge throwing off the juror? The reason is because
2:12
Speaker 1: the juror disregarded his directive. He told the jury in
2:16
Speaker 1: the beginning when they took their oath that they have
2:18
Speaker 1: to listen to him, that they cannot make up their minds,
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Speaker 1: that they cannot begin to deliberate before he releases the
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Speaker 1: evidence and the case to them after he charges them
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Speaker 1: on the law. And this juror obviously made some comments
2:35
Speaker 1: to someone that would indicate that that oath was in
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Speaker 1: jeopardy and maybe that there were other jurors who complained
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Speaker 1: that possibly that j had infect was trying to infect
2:49
Speaker 1: the jury room. This is a very serious thing. Both
2:52
Speaker 1: sides want to have a full and fair opportunity to
2:56
Speaker 1: present their cases, and the judge was left with no choice.
3:00
Speaker 1: Eric Bland has been one thing after the next with
3:03
Speaker 1: the jury. I got word yesterday from a source that's
3:08
Speaker 1: been in the courthouse with me that said, two girars,
3:11
Speaker 1: we're actually having words. In fact, one jar said to
3:15
Speaker 1: the other, the f you will. Okay. I don't know
3:19
Speaker 1: which two gars said that, but that did happen. I mean,
3:24
Speaker 1: what are they arguing about their lunch order? If they're
3:28
Speaker 1: arguing before they even begin deliberations, that's a bad sign. Well,
3:32
Speaker 1: it is a bad sign, and it's going to show
3:34
Speaker 1: that there is some hard feelings that probably developed when
3:39
Speaker 1: you have this group of different people being put in
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Speaker 1: a room and they can't get to know each other
3:45
Speaker 1: by talking about the case, and then people developed factions
3:50
Speaker 1: where two people start to be close with two people
3:52
Speaker 1: and then another group of people. I think this is
3:56
Speaker 1: a portend to what this jury is going to do.
4:00
Speaker 1: I think we're going to see smoking fireworks from that
4:03
Speaker 1: jury room. I don't think we're going to hear peace
4:05
Speaker 1: and quiet. I have some legitimate concerns when you have
4:10
Speaker 1: a six week trial and there is this strong feelings. Look,
4:15
Speaker 1: I'm shaking right now, Nancy. I just heard some of
4:20
Speaker 1: the best oratorial lawyering by John Meaders. I mean that
4:24
Speaker 1: was from the heart. Okay, I gotta tell you something, Bland.
4:30
Speaker 1: John Meaders gave what I consider to be the best
4:34
Speaker 1: summation we have heard. I want to hear some of that.
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Speaker 1: Let's start with cut twenty one, Christine, Cut twenty one. Now,
4:45
Speaker 1: remember you had the state's closing argument. But in this jurisdiction,
4:49
Speaker 1: like many many others, the majority actually in our country,
4:52
Speaker 1: the state has a burden of proof. So the state
4:55
Speaker 1: begins closing arguments closing argument number one. The defense comes,
5:00
Speaker 1: and then the state has a final closing argument. They
5:04
Speaker 1: get the last word in nearly every criminal case unless
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Speaker 1: the defendant puts up no evidence other than her own
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Speaker 1: testimony that did not fit in this category glory. So
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Speaker 1: Matters got the last closing argument, and he made the
5:21
Speaker 1: most of it. Take a listen hour Cut twenty one.
5:23
Speaker 1: I don't know why he killed his wife and son.
5:26
Speaker 1: I don't have to say one. I think he did
5:30
Speaker 1: it to protect the one he loved the most, the
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Speaker 1: one he really loved the most, so he could keep
5:37
Speaker 1: his lifestyle and not be embarrassed financially. He wanted to
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Speaker 1: keep going and loving Alice. You are hearing Matters lay
5:47
Speaker 1: it down in front of this jury. Bland. I agree,
5:51
Speaker 1: with you, Kelly skin with me. Fox Nations senior producer
5:56
Speaker 1: John Matters by far exceeded all the other closing arguments.
6:01
Speaker 1: Agree or disagree. I agree. I think he put this
6:04
Speaker 1: case in layman's terms and said, look, this is common sense,
6:08
Speaker 1: and don't get distracted by the smoke and mirrors that
6:11
Speaker 1: Dick Harpulian is so well known for. This is common sense.
6:15
Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch lied about being at the scene, and therefore
6:18
Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch is the only logical person that could have
6:22
Speaker 1: killed and did have motives to kill Maggie and Paul,
6:25
Speaker 1: And the only person that Alec loved more than Maggie
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Speaker 1: and Paul was Alec. Alex Mursie loved Alex Murdock more
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Speaker 1: than anybody else. Go ahead, Bland, I'm telling you the
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Speaker 1: visual that he painted at the end, that both Maggie
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Speaker 1: and Paul testified, and that Paul had the insurance policy
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Speaker 1: to make sure his father would not lie in infamy
6:49
Speaker 1: about what infamy about what happened in those murders. He
6:53
Speaker 1: did the video, and Maggie testified, Yes, I was shot
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Speaker 1: five times, but I made sure the shell casings were
7:01
Speaker 1: next to my body. And then Bubba I'm telling you
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Speaker 1: that's why you and I became lawyers, to feel it
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Speaker 1: from the heart. He talked, He didn't read. It was
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Speaker 1: from his bones, Nancy, from his bones. You know, I
7:17
Speaker 1: really admired that about his clothing. He was not looking
7:20
Speaker 1: at his notes and flipping pages. He was telling it
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Speaker 1: like it is. And there towards the end, and I
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Speaker 1: want to go to you on this, doctor Michelle Dufree.
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Speaker 1: One thing he said was that he would still be
7:36
Speaker 1: lying on the ground hugging his son, trying to bring
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Speaker 1: the son back to life. How could you do that
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Speaker 1: and take poles and go back and call nine one
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Speaker 1: one all in twenty seconds. You've seen you've been by Moselle.
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Speaker 1: I agree with him, doctor Michelle Dufree. Nancy, I agree
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Speaker 1: with them also. And again I do not know how
8:03
Speaker 1: at that critical incident, when you are right there the
8:06
Speaker 1: night of the murders, when you're being interviewed, how can
8:08
Speaker 1: you not tell the police everything that you know. If
8:12
Speaker 1: you're innocent, you want these people or this person found.
8:16
Speaker 1: And Alex didn't do that. Instead he made up a lie.
8:19
Speaker 1: You know. That's another thing that John Metters hit and
8:22
Speaker 1: he hit it hard and our cut eighteen exactly what
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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree just said, Christie, because you play our
8:30
Speaker 1: cut eighteen. I find it defensive that the defense see
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Speaker 1: the defendant, who was also a part time solicitor, is
8:39
Speaker 1: claiming that law enforcement didn't do their job. Listen to
8:44
Speaker 1: the police didn't do their job, while he is withholding
8:51
Speaker 1: and obstructing justice by not saying I was down at
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Speaker 1: the kennels. I was down at the kennels. I was
9:01
Speaker 1: down at the kennels, and he's gonna blame everybody else.
9:07
Speaker 1: Is that offensive? Is that offensive? Griffin said a minute go.
9:13
Speaker 1: Can you imagine coming up on the scene and seeing
9:18
Speaker 1: Can you imagine not telling law enforcement lying that I
9:23
Speaker 1: was down there and I saw him, I was right there.
9:28
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you tell them that? Maybe get some more
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Speaker 1: evidence that you hear somebody now, I wouldn't even down there.
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Speaker 1: Credibility believable. He really does sum it up time stories
10:01
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. I'm telling you the way Matters laid
10:05
Speaker 1: it in front of the jury. I do not see
10:07
Speaker 1: how they could turn away from his closing arguments, also
10:11
Speaker 1: with me Kelly Ski and Kelly Foxtation's senior producer. Throughout
10:16
Speaker 1: the defense's closing argument. Most of the gerars seemed stoic.
10:23
Speaker 1: They were not really responding to the defense, except for
10:27
Speaker 1: one lady that we call the blanket lady because I've
10:31
Speaker 1: seen her pull her blanket up to right here, right
10:34
Speaker 1: here during the courtroom. You've seen her pull all the
10:37
Speaker 1: way over her head. I was very surprised she wasn't
10:40
Speaker 1: taken off the jury when that happened. But that said,
10:45
Speaker 1: I saw her nodding up and down vigorously during the
10:49
Speaker 1: defense closing statement. Yeah, I saw her as well. It
10:52
Speaker 1: looked like she was hanging on to every single word
10:55
Speaker 1: of those closing arguments by Jim Griffin. Other jurors had there,
11:01
Speaker 1: you know, they were looking stoically at Jim Griffin. I
11:03
Speaker 1: did see one who wasn't even looking at him at all.
11:07
Speaker 1: It's really hard to tell what the jury is thinking
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Speaker 1: at this point, especially after the major shake up this
11:12
Speaker 1: morning where another juror was dismissed. So they've spent six
11:16
Speaker 1: weeks together and they are just dropping off like flies,
11:19
Speaker 1: and now we have one alternate juror left two Eric blind,
11:22
Speaker 1: speaking of the jirars, what is your understanding of what
11:26
Speaker 1: this lady Girard did to get thrown off the jury.
11:29
Speaker 1: She evidently told somebody who reported it to Judge Newman
11:35
Speaker 1: that she made up her mind. Now I don't know
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Speaker 1: whether she said, you know, on innocence or guilt, but
11:42
Speaker 1: it's completely unacceptable. It is something. I can totally tell
11:46
Speaker 1: you what she said. You were in the courtroom with me,
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Speaker 1: Bland sitting right behind me, because they three were off
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Speaker 1: the jury. The state went okay, and the defense said, well,
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Speaker 1: I don't like it because this and this. I'm blah
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Speaker 1: blah blah. Obviously she was pro defense, or the defense
12:03
Speaker 1: would not have been squawking and clucking about in the
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Speaker 1: courtroom which he got thrown off. Correct. I just don't
12:09
Speaker 1: want to impugne somebody's character. But I am upset that,
12:13
Speaker 1: you know, they didn't listen to the jinks. You think
12:18
Speaker 1: it's impening her character that she was pro defense. No,
12:22
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I don't want to hammer somebody. You know,
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Speaker 1: I'm upset that that that jurors are not listening to
12:30
Speaker 1: this judge. This judge has given his time, He has
12:33
Speaker 1: been as even temperamental as you can imagine. He hasn't
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Speaker 1: bitten anybody's head off, He hasn't fallen asleep. He hasn't
12:41
Speaker 1: tried to take over the courtroom. You've had judges who
12:44
Speaker 1: take over a courtroom start asking questions. Um. This guy,
12:49
Speaker 1: from a Solomon like wisdom standpoint, has been great. Um.
12:53
Speaker 1: And I think you know he was joking about the
12:55
Speaker 1: eggs and all, but in his heart, I think he
12:58
Speaker 1: was upset. You know, he doesn't want the jury to
13:01
Speaker 1: be jeopardized. Thank you said too, Because we're out, We're
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Speaker 1: now down to one alternate and go ahead, and don't forget.
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Speaker 1: Two months ago, at the Russell de Fee trial that
13:11
Speaker 1: I was at in federal court, Judge Gurgel had to
13:14
Speaker 1: remove two jurors from the deliberations. In the middle of
13:19
Speaker 1: deliberations because of the One said that she refused to
13:22
Speaker 1: deliberate any further, and another said that she was getting
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Speaker 1: anxious and felt her health was at risk. Listen, that
13:29
Speaker 1: could be what we're going to see in here. And
13:31
Speaker 1: we need twelve jurors. Remember, can't can't compromise in do
13:35
Speaker 1: an eleven person jury in a murder case. It's got
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Speaker 1: to be twelve by the constitution. Butt to Kelly's ski
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Speaker 1: and Kelly when the lady Gerard left, the judge asked
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Speaker 1: her an open court, well what do you have left
13:45
Speaker 1: in the jury room, and she said, well, my purse
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Speaker 1: and my water, and I brought a dozen eggs in
13:52
Speaker 1: or a dozen eggs for the jury. And he says, okay,
13:56
Speaker 1: to the sheriff, go get that for her, and she said,
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Speaker 1: I want to take my eggs with me. So she
14:02
Speaker 1: took her water she did burst and her eggs. So
14:07
Speaker 1: that was a little levity of the corman, which you
14:08
Speaker 1: wanted to take the eggs back that she had brought
14:10
Speaker 1: for the jurars. But I could tell she was upset,
14:13
Speaker 1: and I could tell the judge does not lie losing
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Speaker 1: yet another jurar. So she did. She told the judge
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Speaker 1: she left a dozen eggs that she had brought in
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Speaker 1: for the jurors from her farm, her purse and her
14:25
Speaker 1: water in the chambers and which she was not allowed
14:28
Speaker 1: to go back into. Once she was dismissed, she was
14:31
Speaker 1: brought downstairs. I went downstairs. She looked very shaken, almost embarrassed.
14:36
Speaker 1: And I think something that's really important here is she
14:38
Speaker 1: lied about it. When she was asked if she had
14:40
Speaker 1: discussed the case, she said no, and we had to
14:42
Speaker 1: in effect have another trial within the trial to get
14:45
Speaker 1: to the bottom of this, where they brought in three
14:47
Speaker 1: different people, got them on the record and said no,
14:50
Speaker 1: this woman did give an opinion about the case. The
14:53
Speaker 1: judge said, look, I know it's probably really hard to
14:56
Speaker 1: stay away from media coverage for this case, but bottom
14:59
Speaker 1: line is you of my rules. I can't budge, I'm
15:01
Speaker 1: not you gotta go. Yeah, I could tell she was
15:03
Speaker 1: embarrassed when she left. Guys. Another very odd statement was
15:08
Speaker 1: made during the defense closing argument. Attorney Griffin was talking
15:13
Speaker 1: about was Alex Murdoch still home when his wife and
15:18
Speaker 1: son were murdered? And Griffin says, I don't know, maybe
15:23
Speaker 1: he was. Okay, that's not a good look for Murdoch
15:27
Speaker 1: being there when Maggie and Paul were murdered, but that
15:32
Speaker 1: is what the defense said. Take a listen to our
15:34
Speaker 1: cut seventeen. This is defense attorney Griffin arguing to the jury.
15:39
Speaker 1: So we do know from the timeline that Alec left
15:43
Speaker 1: the property at nine oh seven. Were they killed before
15:47
Speaker 1: he left? I don't know the answer to that. I
15:51
Speaker 1: don't know the answer to that. But we do know
15:55
Speaker 1: that if he was in the house when the shots
15:58
Speaker 1: were made of the kennel, that he would not have
16:02
Speaker 1: heard them. Yeah right, Okay, I've been saving this moment
16:06
Speaker 1: for Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author
16:11
Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet and Star of Bodybacks that
16:14
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan podcast. Okay, Joe Scott, could you believe
16:19
Speaker 1: your ears when you heard the defense place their client
16:23
Speaker 1: at Moselle when his wife and son are murdered at Moselle.
16:28
Speaker 1: Not hear the gunshots my rear end. Of course you
16:31
Speaker 1: could hear those gunshots. Of course you could. You're talking
16:33
Speaker 1: about a high velocity round, multiple high velocity rounds coming
16:37
Speaker 1: out of this three hundred blackout. Not to mention if
16:41
Speaker 1: anyone has ever heard the report of a twelve gage
16:44
Speaker 1: shotgun not just once but twice. Nancy, we know that
16:47
Speaker 1: we have that confirmed. You got to be living under
16:51
Speaker 1: a rock, and there's no way acoustically that you could
16:54
Speaker 1: not appreciate that sound, the crack of that rifle. That rifle,
16:58
Speaker 1: it fires a super personic round. That means that it
17:02
Speaker 1: breaks the sound barrier as it's exiting that muzzle. There's
17:06
Speaker 1: no way you could not have heard that. And people
17:08
Speaker 1: talk about the distance from the house down to that
17:10
Speaker 1: complex down there. It's not that far away. You could
17:14
Speaker 1: certainly hear that, Nancy. You'd smell the question, Nancy, it's
17:18
Speaker 1: urban warfare. You would smell a little bit of gunpowder.
17:21
Speaker 1: I'm telling you. But even if the defense attorney is arguing,
17:25
Speaker 1: which I think he was trying to, that Murdo was
17:28
Speaker 1: up in the house area of Mozelle, that he would
17:33
Speaker 1: not have heard the gunshots as close as a kittel
17:40
Speaker 1: was to the home, that is just not true. Chris
17:43
Speaker 1: mcdunna joining me, Drec dreg Coldcase Foundation, former homicide detective
17:48
Speaker 1: and host of The Interview Room on YouTube. What about it?
17:52
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah, You know, I think Joe nailed it. There
17:55
Speaker 1: is no way that if he's down there, which we
18:00
Speaker 1: know he is, because the kennel video that you know,
18:03
Speaker 1: you have seven shots going off too from the shotgun,
18:06
Speaker 1: and you know another five from the the r or
18:09
Speaker 1: the blackout. You know that sound travels forever in that area.
18:16
Speaker 1: I mean I went out there and stood there on
18:18
Speaker 1: the street. It was so quiet in the middle of
18:20
Speaker 1: the day. It even gets worse at night, and so
18:25
Speaker 1: there's no way he didn't hear those gunshots go off.
18:28
Speaker 1: Now you know, Christine, I want to hold on, Eric,
18:31
Speaker 1: I just want Christine to show something while you're talking.
18:34
Speaker 1: I want to get thank you for the video number one, Christine,
18:38
Speaker 1: but I'd like to get to where the dog kennel
18:43
Speaker 1: is and the feed room. Just keep playing it because
18:47
Speaker 1: we're going to get to it. Because I don't believe
18:49
Speaker 1: that all of those structures even have walls. Some of
18:52
Speaker 1: them are more like pavilion like right that's it. Say,
18:56
Speaker 1: right there, that's a pavilion type atmosphere, and if the
19:00
Speaker 1: gun was fired in that area, there's not even a
19:03
Speaker 1: wall to protect the sound. Now that is definitely inside
19:06
Speaker 1: right there. Okay, what were you saying? Eric? I have
19:09
Speaker 1: represented homeowners that reside near gun ranges and we've sued
19:14
Speaker 1: them over public nuisance. I've had two of those cases,
19:17
Speaker 1: and I've had experts come in and we've had the
19:20
Speaker 1: judge come out and on site. Listen to these gunshots
19:24
Speaker 1: go off. Do you see that? That's what I'm talking about.
19:29
Speaker 1: They were not even walled in and now inside in there. Yes,
19:36
Speaker 1: high power dear rifle arsenal travels the sound for two miles, Nancy,
19:45
Speaker 1: two miles, not just nine hundred feet two Miles. I
19:50
Speaker 1: was just wondering if any of the jars actually are falling.
19:53
Speaker 1: For the theory that no one would hear the gunshot,
19:55
Speaker 1: I mean, just got Morgan. I'm not talking about a
19:58
Speaker 1: little twenty two talking about a high power three hundred
20:02
Speaker 1: blackout and a shot gun. For Pete's sake. Yeah, I can't.
20:06
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that they would. And here's something else
20:09
Speaker 1: you kind of have to factor in, Nancy, where was
20:12
Speaker 1: this jury full? Remember that we're in a rural area.
20:16
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people that possess weapons and
20:19
Speaker 1: have been around weapons. They've been around weapons because a
20:22
Speaker 1: lot of people hunt, Nancy. People are familiar with the
20:24
Speaker 1: sound of weapons. Yes, And you know, I can imagine
20:27
Speaker 1: of sitting back good thinking, oh my god. You know
20:31
Speaker 1: you're saying you couldn't hear that they've been out there. Now, Nancy,
20:34
Speaker 1: remember they took a bus ride. This it's a good point. Guys.
20:37
Speaker 1: I want to hear that one more time, if you
20:39
Speaker 1: don't mind, Chris Stine, could you play that one more time?
20:41
Speaker 1: Our cut seventeen. Now, remember this isn't the state, This
20:45
Speaker 1: is the defense attorney Griffin claiming, Hey, he could have
20:50
Speaker 1: been there when they were murdered. Did he not understand
20:54
Speaker 1: what he was saying? Take a listen. So we do
20:56
Speaker 1: know from the timeline that Alec left the property at
21:00
Speaker 1: nine o seven. Were they killed before you left? I
21:04
Speaker 1: don't know the answer to that. I don't know the
21:08
Speaker 1: answer to that. But we do know that if he
21:12
Speaker 1: was in the house when the shots were made down
21:16
Speaker 1: at the kennel, that he would not have heard them. Okay,
21:19
Speaker 1: now I want you to hear the response by this state,
21:22
Speaker 1: and this is John Matters arguing in our cut twenty.
21:27
Speaker 1: Take a listen. Two Matters laying it down. Maybe you
21:31
Speaker 1: just got angry. Maybe he got angry at Paul. Maybe
21:36
Speaker 1: he got you know, you started all this with the
21:39
Speaker 1: boat case, and maybe you just lost it. Maybe you
21:44
Speaker 1: just lost it. Maybe he will look like the suicide
21:49
Speaker 1: and then Maggie came and he had to shoot her.
21:52
Speaker 1: I don't know. Only one person knows. And that's why
21:57
Speaker 1: we've got the motive. That's why we say he did it,
22:00
Speaker 1: but we didn't left that money just angry. He did it.
22:05
Speaker 1: Nobody else could have done it. Nobody else did do it.
22:08
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to that, and that's how we proved
22:10
Speaker 1: beyond and of course, it was never overtly argued Kelly's
22:14
Speaker 1: skin affects Fox Nation senior producer that if he didn't
22:18
Speaker 1: do it, who did That was not actually argued, but
22:22
Speaker 1: it's really clear from Matter's argument that that's what he's saying.
22:26
Speaker 1: He's the only one that could have done it. I mean,
22:28
Speaker 1: think about it. Who else could have done it? Kelly?
22:32
Speaker 1: These spirits, the specter that was on the internet and
22:39
Speaker 1: became angry over the boat crash and then sought vengeance
22:43
Speaker 1: by killing not just Paul, but Paul and Maggie. And wow,
22:50
Speaker 1: darn Murdo just missed it by an instant. I mean,
22:54
Speaker 1: according to Matters, Murdo would have had to have passed
22:58
Speaker 1: the killer going out the driveway. I mean, Chris Daine,
23:01
Speaker 1: could you show an aerial of Mozille, that long sweeping
23:08
Speaker 1: driveway they goes up to the home and the kennels
23:12
Speaker 1: and the gunshot range. I guess they passed each other
23:15
Speaker 1: in route. Kelly, Well, yeah, Nancy, And we heard another
23:18
Speaker 1: theory from Jim Griffin today, But maybe it was Alex
23:21
Speaker 1: drug dealer. Maybe Paul Murdoch found the person who was
23:25
Speaker 1: supplying Alec Murdoch's drugs confronted them said please stop selling
23:30
Speaker 1: drugs to my dad. Griffin alleged that this person was
23:34
Speaker 1: part of a very dangerous gang down here, and that
23:37
Speaker 1: gang then retaliated by killing Maggie and Paul at the
23:40
Speaker 1: same time. If that shooter would have had to know
23:43
Speaker 1: that Maggie and Paul were at the kennels at that
23:45
Speaker 1: exact same time and hope that Alec Murdoch wouldn't find
23:49
Speaker 1: them killing his wife and son. We also heard today
23:52
Speaker 1: Jim Griffin explain away Alec Murdoch's lies as quote just
23:57
Speaker 1: misstatements and saying, quote that Alec Murdock it's not it's
24:01
Speaker 1: irrational for him to kill. But throughout this entire trial
24:04
Speaker 1: we have heard from the defense themselves that Alec Murdock
24:07
Speaker 1: was irrational because of his addiction. Well, exactly, I want
24:11
Speaker 1: you to listen to cut fourteen. That is exactly what
24:14
Speaker 1: Kelly's skin just described. Listen. Another curious point, and mister
24:18
Speaker 1: Water's closing argument yesterday involves Paul's intuitive talents. You will
24:25
Speaker 1: recall that Alex's inform agents that Paul was an intuitive
24:28
Speaker 1: little dude virtue as a detective, that Miriam Proctor, Maggie's
24:37
Speaker 1: sister said that that Maggie referred to Paul is this
24:43
Speaker 1: little detective, her a little detective, and particularly when it
24:46
Speaker 1: came to trying to root out whether I was still
24:49
Speaker 1: doing drawings, and then he sort of left it there
24:53
Speaker 1: for you to then take it and run with it.
24:56
Speaker 1: As if Paul must have found alec use and drugs,
25:00
Speaker 1: there must have been a confrontation down there at the counter,
25:03
Speaker 1: and that must have been what happened. Now, now he
25:06
Speaker 1: didn't go that far in his argument, but he laid
25:10
Speaker 1: it out there for you to run with. But that
25:13
Speaker 1: was clearly the implication. Let me out another scenario, this
25:18
Speaker 1: equally as plausible. What if Paul the detective learn the
25:22
Speaker 1: source of drugs that were being sold to his dad.
25:26
Speaker 1: What if Paul the detective goes to that drug source,
25:30
Speaker 1: it's my dad, You're in my family, and if you don't,
25:34
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell on you, turn you in a drug gang.
25:38
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell on you where did that come from? Land? What? Nancy?
25:45
Speaker 1: A drug gang has their own guns, Nancy. They don't
25:50
Speaker 1: come to kill somebody and hope there'll be guns in
25:53
Speaker 1: the house that they could steal and then shoot you
25:56
Speaker 1: with them. They have their own weaponry, and they don't
25:59
Speaker 1: use long rifles. They use guns, and they come up
26:02
Speaker 1: and they execute shoot you with a handgun. It is
26:07
Speaker 1: preposterous to posture, to posture the fact that these people
26:13
Speaker 1: came to kill Paul and Maggie with no guns. That's
26:17
Speaker 1: just insulting. Exactly, Nancy, that's that's a crazy idea. Go ahead,
26:22
Speaker 1: dodgor degree. So I totally agree with Eric Gland, that's
26:25
Speaker 1: a crazy idea. In addition, if you'll remember one of
26:28
Speaker 1: the interviews, Alex actually said no, no one else was here.
26:33
Speaker 1: He was asked, were the dog's misbehaving as if there
26:36
Speaker 1: was an unknown person or persons around? He said, no, no,
26:39
Speaker 1: they were not. What does that tell you, Nancy? There's
26:43
Speaker 1: one more here? Go ahead, dear, Yeah, there's one more
26:46
Speaker 1: point here. Remember what matters. When he was bringing down
26:49
Speaker 1: the thunder and his closing there, he mentioned he mentioned
26:53
Speaker 1: that the FBI had gotten involved helping slid this. What's
26:57
Speaker 1: your imply not you, But what they're implying here is
27:00
Speaker 1: that this is an organized crime event. Relative to that
27:04
Speaker 1: BI has already involved. They would have they would have
27:07
Speaker 1: sucked us out, They would have gotten a DA involved
27:09
Speaker 1: in this as well, there's been no evidence of that,
27:12
Speaker 1: so that that's something that you know, as they say
27:15
Speaker 1: the Lowlands, that dog won't hunt guys. Our cut, Oh yeah,
27:20
Speaker 1: I want to hear it. Go ahead, Chris, She'll lay
27:23
Speaker 1: it out there and let him run with it. Was
27:25
Speaker 1: the word of the day because Alex has been doing
27:27
Speaker 1: that from day one. And remember the interview in the
27:31
Speaker 1: car where he introduced the idea of the cat and
27:36
Speaker 1: or I may have seen them come on to the property.
27:39
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure about that. So this narc cart,
27:43
Speaker 1: this narcotic hit now is just again another fabrication. Guys.
27:50
Speaker 1: I was waiting for the defense to address the big lie,
27:55
Speaker 1: the big lie about why he lied that very nine
28:01
Speaker 1: not when he was paranoid or afraid of sled, but
28:05
Speaker 1: in the nine one one call, Alex Murdock had already
28:09
Speaker 1: formulated a lie removing himself from the dog kennels. Kelly, skin,
28:15
Speaker 1: I really thought you were going to fall off your
28:17
Speaker 1: seat in the courtroom when defense attorney Griffin said he
28:22
Speaker 1: lied to avoid scrutiny on himself. Describe that moment, Kelly.
28:29
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just unbelievable. He lied to avoid media
28:33
Speaker 1: scrutiny and then he lied and then in turn found
28:37
Speaker 1: himself in the middle of media and a murder investigation.
28:40
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense, and it's yet another example
28:44
Speaker 1: of the ever evolving story from Alec Murdock's defense team
28:48
Speaker 1: of what happened that night? Was he home? Was he
28:51
Speaker 1: not home? What is their story here? I don't even
28:54
Speaker 1: know if the jury is following, But all they really
28:57
Speaker 1: have to do is plan that one set of reasonable doubt,
28:59
Speaker 1: and I do think that that's their strategy confusion. Take
29:02
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut one. They didn't have this
29:06
Speaker 1: kennel video until April of twenty twenty two, when Paul's
29:12
Speaker 1: phone was finally unlocked, and that changed everything. Opportunity being
29:18
Speaker 1: at the scene of the crime when the murders occurred,
29:23
Speaker 1: and more importantly, exposing the defendants lies about the most
29:29
Speaker 1: important thing he could have told law enforcement? When was
29:33
Speaker 1: the last time I saw my wife and child A lie?
29:39
Speaker 1: Why in the world would an innocent, reasonable father and
29:45
Speaker 1: husband lie about that, and lie about it so early?
29:49
Speaker 1: And he could always say, well, Rogan must be mistaken.
29:53
Speaker 1: I'm surprised, not if my times were right, was what
29:57
Speaker 1: he said. Why would he even things to lie about that?
30:01
Speaker 1: If he were an innocent man. Okay, now here is
30:04
Speaker 1: how the defense countered that their response to the big
30:09
Speaker 1: lie and our cut twelve. Listen carefully to how they
30:13
Speaker 1: explained it away in closing arguments. Listen, we're left with
30:17
Speaker 1: the lie. Alex lied about being done on the kennels,
30:20
Speaker 1: and frankly, probably wouldn't be sitting over there right now
30:25
Speaker 1: he had not lied. And he told you why he lied.
30:27
Speaker 1: He said he lied because that's what addicts do. He
30:30
Speaker 1: lied because he had a closet full of skeletons that
30:32
Speaker 1: he didn't want any more scrutiny on him, which is
30:36
Speaker 1: the most ironic thing in the world, because depending on
30:40
Speaker 1: which day of the week, their theory is that he
30:45
Speaker 1: slaughter his wife and son to distract from an impending
30:51
Speaker 1: financial investigation. But he puts himself in the middle of
30:55
Speaker 1: a murder investigation, and he puts himself in the spotlight
30:59
Speaker 1: of edia firestorm. I say a motive alms. He lied
31:03
Speaker 1: because of his drug paranoida kicked in and he was
31:06
Speaker 1: clearly in the throes of addiction when he didn't lie
31:10
Speaker 1: for it is because he was covering up the fact
31:12
Speaker 1: that they killed Maggie and Paul, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor forensics.
31:17
Speaker 1: You and I've seen a lot of cases, but to
31:19
Speaker 1: say a loving husband and a loving father. Of course,
31:23
Speaker 1: the jury never got to hear about the affair he
31:26
Speaker 1: had behind Maggie's back. But that every time they said
31:30
Speaker 1: in court today about how much he loved Maggie and
31:33
Speaker 1: how he worshiped Maggie and adored Maggie, all I could
31:38
Speaker 1: think about was him having that affair and how upset
31:41
Speaker 1: she was till the day she died about that. But
31:43
Speaker 1: that said Joe Scott Morgan, to say, I lied about
31:48
Speaker 1: the last time I saw my child and wife alive
31:53
Speaker 1: to avoid scrutiny on myself. I mean, did the jury
31:58
Speaker 1: get that? Do you think how ridiculus that is? Yeah,
32:01
Speaker 1: it is absurd, And this idea, Nancy, where they're falling back.
32:05
Speaker 1: You know that he's an addicted person, that he's literally
32:08
Speaker 1: a junkie, and this has come down, it's come down
32:11
Speaker 1: to this now. But this is your defense. This is
32:14
Speaker 1: the best that you have. You're saying that he's so
32:17
Speaker 1: addled at this point in time, he has no perception
32:20
Speaker 1: of what's going on, and you know, either it's one
32:23
Speaker 1: way or it's another correct, this is what you're saying.
32:25
Speaker 1: So you being addicted has led to all of these lies.
32:30
Speaker 1: But yet it's a bridge too far to think that, yeah,
32:33
Speaker 1: you may have gone in there and slaughtered your family. Okay,
32:36
Speaker 1: well you know you've got lie after lie after lie.
32:38
Speaker 1: And look, they have talked about that they don't have
32:41
Speaker 1: to prove motive. You've taught me that over all of
32:43
Speaker 1: these years. I know that they don't. But when you
32:46
Speaker 1: begin to piece this together, point by point by point
32:50
Speaker 1: on this continuum, it's powerful stuff. And it comes to
32:53
Speaker 1: this conclusion at the end that staring everybody in the face,
32:57
Speaker 1: certainly that jury is they're going to go back into
32:59
Speaker 1: that into that room. And now, guys, I want to
33:01
Speaker 1: hear it one more time. Go ahead, doctor Dupree. So
33:04
Speaker 1: we're forgetting something. Alex never thought he would get caught.
33:09
Speaker 1: That's one reason he lied. He never thought he'd be caught.
33:12
Speaker 1: He is too smart. Together, you're leading me to another point,
33:15
Speaker 1: doctor Dupree. No matter where I have been at the
33:19
Speaker 1: Mexican restaurant last night, at and the lobby of the
33:24
Speaker 1: hotel where we're staying here at the courthouse, I mean
33:28
Speaker 1: at Walmart, every Gas station. Everywhere I have been, somebody
33:33
Speaker 1: comes up and says, I'm from Carleton County. My dad
33:36
Speaker 1: knew this, and my sister this, my cousin, all connected
33:40
Speaker 1: to the Murnags. They have run this county for a
33:44
Speaker 1: hundred years. I don't know if they're going to run
33:48
Speaker 1: this jury too, But you're right, doctor Dupree. He never
33:51
Speaker 1: thought he would get caught. He never knew that his
33:54
Speaker 1: voice was captured on that video. That video is damning.
34:00
Speaker 1: I want you to hear again the defense trying to
34:04
Speaker 1: explain why he gave the big lie, and I was
34:09
Speaker 1: writing in the courtroom, the defense explanation falls flat on
34:16
Speaker 1: the big question. Listen to cut twelve. We're left with
34:19
Speaker 1: the lie. Alex lied about being done on the kennels,
34:22
Speaker 1: and frankly, probably wouldn't be sitting over there right now
34:26
Speaker 1: he had not lied, And he told you why he lied.
34:29
Speaker 1: He said he lied because that's what addicts do. He
34:32
Speaker 1: lied because he had a closet full of skeletons that
34:34
Speaker 1: he didn't want any more scrutiny on him, which is
34:38
Speaker 1: the most ironic thing in the world, because depending on
34:42
Speaker 1: which day of the week, their theory is that he
34:47
Speaker 1: slaughter his wife and son to distract from an impending
34:53
Speaker 1: financial investigation. But he puts himself in the middle of
34:57
Speaker 1: a murder investigation, and he puts himself in the spotlight
35:00
Speaker 1: of a media firestorm. Now say a motive alopmus, he
35:04
Speaker 1: lied because of his drug paranoida kicked in and he
35:07
Speaker 1: was clearly in the throes of addiction. When he didn't
35:11
Speaker 1: lie for it is because he was covering up the
35:14
Speaker 1: fact that he killed Maggie Paul Time stories with Nancy Grace,
35:32
Speaker 1: you know, back to you, jes Scott Morgan. Let's talk
35:34
Speaker 1: about something that you and doctor Dupree is your expertise.
35:39
Speaker 1: Let's talk about blood. Because I realized for the first
35:43
Speaker 1: time when John Matters said it that that's water I
35:47
Speaker 1: hear running in the background of that video. And he
35:52
Speaker 1: argued to the jury that right there, Alex Murdog used
35:59
Speaker 1: that host to clean themself up totally, not in the
36:04
Speaker 1: shower and the lodge at Moselle, but right there, and
36:07
Speaker 1: you do hear the water in the background of that video. Yeah,
36:12
Speaker 1: I think that that's potentially plausible. You going to this
36:16
Speaker 1: idea of cleaning, you know, I've held you know, one
36:19
Speaker 1: of the things I couldn't get past in this when
36:21
Speaker 1: you were talking, when people were talking about the house
36:23
Speaker 1: and this word thing, why didn't they take out the
36:26
Speaker 1: drain traps in the house a look for tissue. I'm
36:28
Speaker 1: not talking about blood. I'm talking about actual tissue. Because
36:31
Speaker 1: think about how violent Paul's death was, and we've already
36:35
Speaker 1: heard about tissue, and I'm thinking, you know, that's one
36:37
Speaker 1: of the things we do with crime scenes. We take
36:38
Speaker 1: drain traps out, we look for bits of tissue and
36:40
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Hadn't heard anything about that. But
36:43
Speaker 1: out there at that kennel, if you're renting off with
36:46
Speaker 1: a hose, there wouldn't be drain traps to take apart.
36:49
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how well they searched that area, if there
36:52
Speaker 1: was anything particulate that they found out there that could
36:55
Speaker 1: be associated with him being present for that blast essentially,
37:00
Speaker 1: you know, because Paul was in a very enclosed area,
37:03
Speaker 1: wasn't kind of outside where Maggie was shot, so that
37:08
Speaker 1: to be dispersed upon him, it would have left something behind,
37:11
Speaker 1: you know, another thing that happened, and I'd really like
37:13
Speaker 1: to hear doctor dupre wagh in on this. In the
37:17
Speaker 1: final closing with John Metters. He discussed how really the
37:23
Speaker 1: state is damned if they do, and they're damned if
37:26
Speaker 1: they don't. He described the blood evidence that was tested
37:30
Speaker 1: on Murdoch's shirt, the one he was wearing, not the
37:34
Speaker 1: one that disappeared forever, but the one that he was
37:37
Speaker 1: wearing at the beginning. It seemed initially that there were
37:42
Speaker 1: blood spatter, there was blood spatter on there, when it
37:45
Speaker 1: turned out that it was not, and that makes perfect
37:48
Speaker 1: sense because he changed into a clean shirt. The state
37:53
Speaker 1: did not try to present that, but then at trial
37:56
Speaker 1: in closing arguments, the defense turned it around to pretend
38:00
Speaker 1: into that the state had somehow misappropriated that evidence and
38:06
Speaker 1: used it against the defense. So they're damned if they
38:10
Speaker 1: make the test, and then they're damned if they don't
38:13
Speaker 1: bring that evidence in its trial, right, Nancy, And again,
38:16
Speaker 1: you know this is why we do something. We do
38:18
Speaker 1: a presumptive test first and then a confirmatory test. And
38:22
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how this information got mixed up, but
38:25
Speaker 1: it did. And you know that's not a good thing.
38:29
Speaker 1: But the point is, you know, Alex could very easily
38:33
Speaker 1: have cleaned up right there with that hose at that time.
38:36
Speaker 1: You've already heard testimony that he has clothes all over.
38:40
Speaker 1: What if he had a change of clothes in his
38:41
Speaker 1: car and he cleaned up right, then it would be
38:44
Speaker 1: very easy to do. There'd been witnesses that even said
38:47
Speaker 1: that he looked like he was fresh, he had a shower.
38:51
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense. Well, the defense attacks the state,
38:55
Speaker 1: as I always describe it, when you've got nowhere to
38:57
Speaker 1: go and you're like a funeral and m trapped in
39:01
Speaker 1: the corner, you have to lash out. You have to
39:03
Speaker 1: blame somebody. So who are they going to blame? A
39:06
Speaker 1: drug gang, a phantom killer, a random vigilante. None of
39:12
Speaker 1: that's really sticky. So you know what, don't look here,
39:15
Speaker 1: look here, Blame Sled, Blame law enforcement. It's all their fault.
39:20
Speaker 1: Take a listen in our cut ten how the defense
39:24
Speaker 1: claims that Sled quote failed miserably. On June seventh, twenty one,
39:34
Speaker 1: Alec Martin called nine one one and Officer Deputy Green
39:41
Speaker 1: and then followed by other deputies rolled up on the scene.
39:44
Speaker 1: And he is standing on his property. His wife and
39:48
Speaker 1: son lie dead and a pool of blood each. He's
39:54
Speaker 1: within yards of him, and he just put shotgun down.
40:00
Speaker 1: So he's in the circle by virtue of calling nine
40:02
Speaker 1: one one, and that's fair enough. What doesn't strike us
40:07
Speaker 1: as fair is that the next morning, on June eighth,
40:14
Speaker 1: after the gruesome murders of Maggie and Paul Caldon County
40:19
Speaker 1: and Sled that says at this time there's no danger
40:23
Speaker 1: to the Coldlan. Does that tell you that on June
40:28
Speaker 1: eight law enforcement had decided it had to be Ellen
40:34
Speaker 1: murdered a Ford, he is at the mercy, he is
40:39
Speaker 1: at the mercy of the ability of Sled to exclude
40:46
Speaker 1: him from that. Sir, we believe that we've shown conclusively
40:52
Speaker 1: that SLED failed miserably in investigating this case. You know what,
40:56
Speaker 1: Chris McDonald, former homicide detective, now starved the interview room
41:00
Speaker 1: on YouTube. That's just part of the deal that comes
41:03
Speaker 1: with the package of being in law enforcement, being a prosecutor.
41:08
Speaker 1: You are going to be attacked and you are going
41:10
Speaker 1: to be blamed no matter how well you do your job. Look,
41:15
Speaker 1: there is in every case I tried that went up
41:19
Speaker 1: on appeal, I didn't have a single one where I
41:22
Speaker 1: wasn't accused of prosecutorial misconduct. At the first maybe ten
41:27
Speaker 1: or twelve times, I would be so upset. I took
41:30
Speaker 1: it so personally. Then I got I figured it out
41:34
Speaker 1: an older prosecutor in the office that that happens on
41:37
Speaker 1: every appeal. It's not about you. That's what they do,
41:42
Speaker 1: and that's what's happening here. I mean, Chris McDonough, have
41:44
Speaker 1: you ever been accused of misconduct? Oh? Absolutely, Nancy. I mean,
41:48
Speaker 1: I've worked over three hundred murders in my career, and
41:52
Speaker 1: you know, two hundred ninety nine of them are perfect,
41:55
Speaker 1: and then there's that one right where you get hung
41:59
Speaker 1: out to dry. Here. I mean, I think for the
42:02
Speaker 1: very first time, Alec is being held accountable. And unfortunately
42:09
Speaker 1: they're the only tactic they can use is to blame
42:12
Speaker 1: the other guy, Ie Sled and the investigators and the
42:16
Speaker 1: and the system as a whole. But I think I
42:19
Speaker 1: think the system's going to work here. I love the
42:22
Speaker 1: state seal in Latin where it says, well I breathe,
42:26
Speaker 1: I hope. Well that really hit home because just talking
42:30
Speaker 1: about it, Joe Scott Morgan death investigator, You've been on
42:34
Speaker 1: so many homicide scenes. I mean, what was the state
42:37
Speaker 1: supposed to do? They see the T shirt. It looks
42:41
Speaker 1: like there are blood spatters, very pinpoint spatters near the top.
42:45
Speaker 1: They haven't tested. They were wrong. It wasn't blood, so
42:49
Speaker 1: they didn't use it. What are they supposed to do?
42:51
Speaker 1: Not test it because they might be wrong. No, you
42:53
Speaker 1: have to test it. As a matter of fact. You
42:55
Speaker 1: have to exhaust every possible avenue that you have as
42:59
Speaker 1: an investigator a forensic standpoint, you collect everything that there is,
43:03
Speaker 1: and I don't care how long it takes you. I
43:05
Speaker 1: work cases where we rode away from the scene with
43:08
Speaker 1: van loads and I'm talking about multiple vanloads of evidence
43:12
Speaker 1: where that have to be tested. You have to pursue everything.
43:16
Speaker 1: The biggest disappointment I think that I have in this
43:19
Speaker 1: case is this absence of weapons, though, but I think
43:22
Speaker 1: that there's an answer to that question. Ni. I find
43:26
Speaker 1: it fascinating when they talk about him going to his parents' home,
43:31
Speaker 1: you know, after the fact, you know, a week or
43:33
Speaker 1: so later and he's taken out a four wheeler or
43:36
Speaker 1: something like this. I'm wondering how thoroughly all of these
43:39
Speaker 1: properties have been examined. I'm wondering if there are old
43:43
Speaker 1: wells on these properties where those weapons could have been
43:45
Speaker 1: disposed of. Are they sitting at the bottom of an
43:48
Speaker 1: old abandoned, Well, is there some other place they haven't looked?
43:52
Speaker 1: Those weapons are out there somewhere they didn't just vaporize.
43:56
Speaker 1: So that's that's my one big thing, and I think
43:58
Speaker 1: that that's one of the biggest hurdles that that jury
44:01
Speaker 1: is going to have to overcome. People want to see
44:03
Speaker 1: a weapon, and that's going to be one of the biggest,
44:06
Speaker 1: biggest steam You know, doctor Michelle Dupree. We have gone
44:10
Speaker 1: and we've driven all around Moseelle looking at how vast
44:15
Speaker 1: the property is. I think that one day, maybe not
44:18
Speaker 1: in our lifetime, but one day somebody will find those weapons.
44:24
Speaker 1: They're out there waiting to be found. They've been hidden
44:27
Speaker 1: somewhere that only one person knows. And he's not talking
44:32
Speaker 1: doctor Dupree. I think you're right, Nancy. I mean this
44:35
Speaker 1: is seventeen hundred acres. Much of it is swamp. I mean,
44:39
Speaker 1: they could be literally anywhere, and you're right, there is
44:42
Speaker 1: only one person that knows where they are, doctor Dupree.
44:46
Speaker 1: I was just talking about with Chris mcdonnah, how many
44:49
Speaker 1: times when a defendant has nowhere to go, nothing to argue,
44:53
Speaker 1: they begin blaming the cops. The cops did this. The
44:56
Speaker 1: cops did that hey at worked to know j Simpson
44:59
Speaker 1: the jury, she fell for it. As a medical examiner,
45:03
Speaker 1: I mean I was thinking about doctor Reemer, who did
45:05
Speaker 1: such a fantastic job and was just really just burning brilliant.
45:11
Speaker 1: It just oozed out of her. But I could see
45:14
Speaker 1: her getting upset and defensive when she was being attacked.
45:20
Speaker 1: That doesn't feel good for anybody in law enforcement when
45:23
Speaker 1: you give it your all and then you're accused of
45:27
Speaker 1: misconduct or doing a sloppy job. What did they want
45:31
Speaker 1: the state not to test the shirt because now they're
45:35
Speaker 1: getting reamed out because the shirt was negative of the
45:38
Speaker 1: state didn't bring it in Nancy. I think this is
45:40
Speaker 1: really a great example of what we call that CSI effect.
45:44
Speaker 1: And I saw when I was a detective, and I've
45:46
Speaker 1: seen it as a medical examiner. The jury watches TV
45:50
Speaker 1: and they expect everything to work the way it does
45:53
Speaker 1: on television, and it just doesn't. Every time I testify,
45:57
Speaker 1: nearly every time, I looked straight at the jury and
46:00
Speaker 1: I say, this is how it's really done. It's not
46:03
Speaker 1: like on TV, and then I proceed to explain what
46:06
Speaker 1: the real situation is. We also saw Kelly skin the
46:10
Speaker 1: attack on police saying that they identified Murdoch as a
46:15
Speaker 1: suspect at the beginning. And I remember right at the
46:19
Speaker 1: beginning when SLED released a statement Kelly, and you and
46:22
Speaker 1: I talked about it at the time stating the public
46:26
Speaker 1: is not in danger, and you and I say, wow,
46:29
Speaker 1: so he must think it's Murdoch. So that part is true.
46:33
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, you've got two people single
46:38
Speaker 1: out in a remote location, killed execution style, riddled with bullets,
46:42
Speaker 1: no rape, no sex attack, no robbery. So they were
46:47
Speaker 1: singled out, they were targeted. And because the victims were targeted,
46:53
Speaker 1: that means that the general population is not at risk.
46:58
Speaker 1: But you know, the defense did have a heyday with that.
47:01
Speaker 1: Would that big, huge poster of the press release saying
47:04
Speaker 1: the public is say, don't worry. Remember that inclosing arguments.
47:08
Speaker 1: I remember that, and I have a list of the
47:10
Speaker 1: things that SLED would have to manufacture here. So they
47:13
Speaker 1: would have to manufacture the fact that these murders were
47:15
Speaker 1: done with family weapons. They would have to manufacture Alec's
47:19
Speaker 1: own alibi, and they would have to manufacture the fact
47:21
Speaker 1: that Alec lied about turning over the bodies before calling
47:25
Speaker 1: nine on one. So another thing I think that we're
47:28
Speaker 1: also seeing here is Alec Murdoch's influence in this town
47:32
Speaker 1: is actually helping the defense possibly. We even heard that
47:36
Speaker 1: while the police had a search warrant that they could
47:38
Speaker 1: execute at Moselle to search the house, they didn't do that.
47:41
Speaker 1: They offered to put the badge away. So I think
47:43
Speaker 1: his influence impacting the investigation is actually possibly helping the
47:47
Speaker 1: defense here because they are using that to paint and
47:50
Speaker 1: sled as sloppy, and of course the defense hammered the theory.
47:54
Speaker 1: Go ahead, a doctor. So again, every time we have
47:58
Speaker 1: such a targeted hit like this, which is what this was. Yes,
48:02
Speaker 1: the person who finds them or who costs nine one
48:05
Speaker 1: one is going to be someone that we're going to
48:07
Speaker 1: be interested in. And just because we believe that the
48:10
Speaker 1: public is no longer at risk doesn't mean that we
48:14
Speaker 1: are singling out and having what we call tunnel vision
48:18
Speaker 1: only looking at one suspect. You can have that, but
48:21
Speaker 1: still not just focus on one Nancy. Can I add
48:24
Speaker 1: some clarity for it as well? Sure? Please do what
48:29
Speaker 1: doctor Dupriya is talking about. So that's what we call
48:32
Speaker 1: the victim risk continuum, and what that means is if
48:35
Speaker 1: you take an l for an example. And on this
48:38
Speaker 1: side you have environment, situation, circumstance, then you have low,
48:42
Speaker 1: medium or high risk activity. If everything starts going to
48:46
Speaker 1: the low risk based on the environment, situation and circumstance,
48:51
Speaker 1: that means this was a targeted event. Ie. The statistics
48:55
Speaker 1: tell us that this individual who committed these crimes is
49:00
Speaker 1: familiar with these victims and new and had some type
49:04
Speaker 1: of a relationship with the victim. If you go to
49:07
Speaker 1: the other spectrum, then that is a stranger event. So
49:13
Speaker 1: everything told these investigators that night that it was definitely
49:18
Speaker 1: somebody close to that environment, and that's where they came
49:22
Speaker 1: up with the terminology within the circle. Guys, I want
49:25
Speaker 1: you to hear where the defense will not let go
49:27
Speaker 1: and I completely understand it. The theory of two shooters.
49:31
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut sixteen. You know, the
49:34
Speaker 1: most common sense thing here is there were two shoots
49:39
Speaker 1: because there were two guns. And as mister Palmbott said,
49:47
Speaker 1: one guns high capacity holds ten twenty thirty rounds. And
49:51
Speaker 1: if you're going down to execute somebody, one guns enough,
49:56
Speaker 1: I'll take another gun that only has three shots. It's
50:02
Speaker 1: and doctor Kenzie agreed with the angle coming out of
50:06
Speaker 1: the bird the quealth end, so that the angle puts
50:09
Speaker 1: it pretty far away from the door of the feeder
50:13
Speaker 1: and where Paul was killed. But it's not our burden.
50:15
Speaker 1: It's not our burden, it's their burdens proved to you
50:19
Speaker 1: based on circumstantial evidence that all the circumstances are consistent
50:23
Speaker 1: with each other and point conclusively to the defendive's guilt
50:28
Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt, and those facts are just not consistent. J.
50:32
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, what do you make of the two shooter theory. Well,
50:35
Speaker 1: I think that one of the things that they're arguing
50:38
Speaker 1: here is certainly I thought about it, is that why
50:41
Speaker 1: in the world which you employ too long arm. You know,
50:45
Speaker 1: in the military you carry a primary weapon like an
50:48
Speaker 1: HIM for carbing, and you have a side arm. And
50:51
Speaker 1: you see our troops transition, you see law enforcement do
50:54
Speaker 1: this as well. From one to one. I think that
50:56
Speaker 1: they're promising reconstructionists that they had they being the defense,
51:01
Speaker 1: argue that it would be very cumbersome. Actually it's not.
51:05
Speaker 1: If the individual is wearing what's referred to as a
51:07
Speaker 1: tactful sling on this three hundred blackout, you could chest
51:11
Speaker 1: carry that very easy and still operate this twelve gage. Also,
51:16
Speaker 1: he's got control over this property. He can sequest or
51:18
Speaker 1: weapons anywhere he wants to and utilize them. Here's the
51:22
Speaker 1: rub for the defense, and they're not addressing this, is
51:26
Speaker 1: that if you want to try to make something look
51:29
Speaker 1: like that they are two shooters, why not employ two
51:32
Speaker 1: weapons That would give you the thought that, hey, you know,
51:36
Speaker 1: we've got two weapons that are very difficult to manage.
51:40
Speaker 1: Technically you have to bring them to your shoulder to
51:42
Speaker 1: fire them. It seems rather cumbersome. Well, it's the perfect
51:46
Speaker 1: scenario for that, So you know, you have to calculate
51:50
Speaker 1: all of this. Again, I think the jury, I don't know.
51:52
Speaker 1: At this point. You had mentioned how you understand why
51:55
Speaker 1: they're pursuing it, and I understand that too, because if
51:58
Speaker 1: there's one point that a jury could potentially hang up on,
52:01
Speaker 1: it's going to be the two shooter theory. Is it
52:04
Speaker 1: possible that this could that this could have been perpetrated
52:07
Speaker 1: by one person? And it can be difficult to prove exactly, Nancy.
52:11
Speaker 1: And remember no, I think that this is Alex's attempt
52:14
Speaker 1: at what we call forensic countermeasures. He knows, he's very smart,
52:19
Speaker 1: he knows that this is going to potentially throw off
52:22
Speaker 1: the investigation, and that is exactly why someone would do that. Well,
52:27
Speaker 1: I always compare it to you have a fork in
52:30
Speaker 1: one hand and a knife in the other. Nobody has
52:32
Speaker 1: a problem with that. An experienced shooter will have no
52:36
Speaker 1: problem with two guns, especially if you employ a sling.
52:40
Speaker 1: And seasoned hunters use slings. They don't trump through the
52:46
Speaker 1: woods holding the guns in their hands, they use a sling.
52:50
Speaker 1: I find it very hard to believe that Murdog didn't
52:53
Speaker 1: have a sling. I want you to hear what I
52:56
Speaker 1: thought was possibly one of the strongest arguments by the state,
53:01
Speaker 1: and it's final clothes today. It's power cut twenty two,
53:05
Speaker 1: and of everything I have heard in the courtroom from
53:09
Speaker 1: the beginning matters, closing was by far the best, hands down.
53:16
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twenty two. You know
53:19
Speaker 1: it's something else. I don't understand. Your wife and your
53:22
Speaker 1: son had just been killed, and you're worried about having
53:26
Speaker 1: a lawyer run. I said, well, you know, just let
53:28
Speaker 1: as I need to have a lawyer round for really,
53:33
Speaker 1: my wife and son had just been butchered, and I'm
53:35
Speaker 1: worried about having a lawyer. From the alibis that he's created,
53:39
Speaker 1: that he's doing it. He says, I'm went and round,
53:41
Speaker 1: you might have. I'm a knees over here, went and
53:43
Speaker 1: brand and I tried to take the pulse of Paul.
53:49
Speaker 1: I'll still be on the ground over myself, and I've
53:56
Speaker 1: tried to turn him over, trying to check his real
54:02
Speaker 1: I went to Maggie Jack trip bolts and you can't
54:06
Speaker 1: do that in twenty seconds. Wow, you know what to you,
54:11
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough. That says it all the way he laid
54:16
Speaker 1: that out about if he found his son lying there dead,
54:22
Speaker 1: what he would do. Yeah, Nancy, I mean it's you know,
54:28
Speaker 1: I come from living at it, you know, with authenticity.
54:33
Speaker 1: As you know, I lost my son who was twenty
54:35
Speaker 1: years old. And I can't tell you what it felt
54:39
Speaker 1: like that day, but I can tell you this. I
54:42
Speaker 1: didn't call a lawyer, nor what I ever call a
54:45
Speaker 1: lawyer at that moment. And he not only called one,
54:49
Speaker 1: he called his firm. He had a firm of lawyers
54:53
Speaker 1: show up that night at the death of his family.
54:58
Speaker 1: I think he nailed it in the cloth. I gotta
55:00
Speaker 1: tell you something, Chris, I thought I knew it all
55:02
Speaker 1: about grief and mourning when my fiance they was murdered
55:05
Speaker 1: shortly before our wedding. But now that I have John,
55:08
Speaker 1: David and Lucy, I agree with you. I don't think
55:12
Speaker 1: I could even think about calling a lawyer after seeing
55:17
Speaker 1: my child lying there dead straight back out to you,
55:25
Speaker 1: killy skin. I think at that moment the courtroom just
55:29
Speaker 1: came to a stop when Matters made that argument. I agree.
55:34
Speaker 1: And I think also the fact that up until this
55:37
Speaker 1: point we have heard how gruesome these injuries are. So
55:40
Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch saw his own son's brain on the ground
55:43
Speaker 1: and then decided to still check for a pulse. I
55:46
Speaker 1: think a lot of this stuff is just not adding
55:49
Speaker 1: up and more ironic seeing his son like that and
55:55
Speaker 1: then thinking, wow, I better call a lawyer. I don't
56:00
Speaker 1: scrutiny on me, so I'll just lie about it. So
56:05
Speaker 1: much has happened, and this the lawyers behind me. Go ahead,
56:09
Speaker 1: go ahead, called the lawyers. I gotta tell you. One
56:12
Speaker 1: of the things that absolutely has amazed me about this
56:14
Speaker 1: whole this whole process, that no one has really talked
56:18
Speaker 1: about relative to Alex. We've heard about how powerful this
56:21
Speaker 1: family is. I want to know why on the day
56:24
Speaker 1: after he wasn't standing out on those court steps, and
56:28
Speaker 1: there would have been an endless bank of microphones in
56:32
Speaker 1: front of him, with cameras, people that he had summoned
56:35
Speaker 1: with all of this power that this family is supposed
56:37
Speaker 1: to have. That he would have been slabbing and crying
56:41
Speaker 1: and wailing, begging for people to come forward, help me
56:45
Speaker 1: solve this double homicide where my family has been butchered. Remember,
56:49
Speaker 1: he witnessed this the night before. That's not what happened.
56:53
Speaker 1: I never saw that. I never saw anybody screaming at
56:57
Speaker 1: the top of their lungs, getting up on the rooftops
56:59
Speaker 1: and shouting out where in the world is this killer?
57:03
Speaker 1: They're running around the countryside out here. We've never had
57:05
Speaker 1: anything like this happened. Where's the horror? Where's the terror?
57:09
Speaker 1: You know? Where is it? Because I can tell you
57:11
Speaker 1: my family, I'd want blood. I would want them, I
57:14
Speaker 1: would want that person. I would want to drag them
57:17
Speaker 1: through the streets in the city. I would want to
57:20
Speaker 1: know that my community was safe and that I was
57:23
Speaker 1: going to have justice for my wife and my son.
57:26
Speaker 1: That never happened. Guides, the judge is about to charge
57:28
Speaker 1: this jury with the law by which they are to
57:31
Speaker 1: judge the facts of the case. This will be the
57:33
Speaker 1: judge reading the black and white letter of the law,
57:36
Speaker 1: and then this jury finally begins jury deliberations. Thank you
57:42
Speaker 1: for being with us. We're head to straight back into
57:44
Speaker 1: the courtroom for the jury charges. Goodbye friend,