Latest / Stuff You Should Know / How Peyote Works

Transcript

How Peyote Works · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, Maine and Greater New England. We're coming to see
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: you guys in Portland and we can't wait. We would
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: love to see you there. Yep, we'll be at the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: State Theater on August. If you're interested, you can get
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: tickets and information at s y s K live dot com.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Throws some lobster at us. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: w Chuck Bryan, there's Jerry over there, and uh whow,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: he's Alie Payton's best record. I think, um no, no,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: hold on no, it's not why he's Ali it's um
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: it's not Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, crooked rink between them
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: with Summer Babe. Oh no, that was the first one
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: that's slanted and enchanted. Okay, that was their first album.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: What a classic, man. I think that's their best one,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: is it not? Well? Cricket Rain gets sighted a lot
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: of times is sort of the peak pavement. Uh. Slanted
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: is for fans of like the early sloppy days lo fi,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: which we both love. I like, Wow, He's out because
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: it was so strange and Weird. I haven't heard that
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: one very much. It's great. Okay, they're all They're all great.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I like him, even right down to the last one,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: the Weird Um Polka experimental album that they came out
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: they're playing. Uh, they announced they're playing another couple of
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: reunion shows at a festival in Portugal, and I, you know,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: we're in touch with Mr Bob Nistanovich and I texted him,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: It's like, do I have to go to Portugal? Is
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: anything bruin here in the States. It's like, because I'll go.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: What do you say? He said, Uh, nothing is of yet.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: He's like, so go with God. Are you going to
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: go to ports your goal? Maybe if that's the only
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: chance to see Paven again, because I want to go
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to Portugal anyway. You have frequent fire miles to use
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: an do it? You totally should and drink some port
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: while you're there too. Yeah. You know, my friends opening
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: up a wine shop in Kirkwood that is very not
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: exclusively Portuguese, but that's where she's from. It's going to
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: be featuring a lot of Portuguese wines. That works really
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: well with this episode, Chuck, as we'll see later on.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: But just put a pin in Portuguese wine, okay, and
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: for later. All right, So you started off by saying
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the words wowie's awe because we're talking about peyote, which
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: is an allucinogen. That's right, but um, it's a it's
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: from what I've seen, one of the oldest to hallucinogens.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: People were eating mushrooms all over Europe, north central western
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Europe for a very long time, sometimes accidentally, which is hysterical.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: But people have been eating peyote for a really really
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: long time too, as we'll see, thousands and thousands of years,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: and as a results, got a pretty interesting little history
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: to it, both ancient and modern. And really all it
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: comes down to is it's a bineless cactus that has
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: a very bitter taste that's not nice, never stands up
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: for itself. Um, but it is a spineless cactus, which
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: means well, if it's a spinless cactus, that means that
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: desert animals probably love to eat it. They don't because
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: it has a really bitter taste. And that bitter taste
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: is an alkaloid called mescaline, right, And that it's a sign.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: It's nature signs saying don't eat me, right, but just
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: so happens that if we humans eat that particular alkaloid,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: we say things like wow, he's alwi. That's right, right,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: so uh, yeah, let's go. It is native to Mexico
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: in the southern US. It is technically the scientific name
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: is loafa Fhora william Ce. Now we decided that two
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: eyes means you pronounced both right, uh. And it grows
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: in northern Mexico and South Texas right along the border.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: There knows no borders, that's true. And it loves the
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: rocky limestone. And in historical documents it's had a range
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: all the way up to New Mexico perhaps, and we've
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: either changed that with human interaction or that was just wrong.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: But it definitely grows along the border. Yeah, and it
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: looks like a little uh did growing up? Did you
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: ever see those little tomato pincushions. Yeah, oh yeah, it
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: looks sort of like that, but it's not red, yeah,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I guess. And it doesn't have pin sticking out of it. Now,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: although you could stick a pin in it, sure you
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: could put a bird on it, it would be very
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: disrespectful to the spirit within the payote though, that's right.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: It probably wouldn't like that very much. That's true, like
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: a little Payote voodoo doll. Sure. Um. So, like we said,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: the mescaline is is to tell animals stay away, don't
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: eat me. Um. They also think it's possible that has
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: something to do with communications between plants. It may do
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: a number of different things actually, But one of the
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: things about payote is it has this reputation, a very
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: mystical reputation, not just because it's a psychedelic and a leucinogen,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: but because it is really really hard to find until
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: it's not. It's got this reputation where you'll be looking
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: all over for payote. It grows in the rocky soil,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: and typically it will grow under like a creosop bush
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: or a mesquite tree or something like that nurse plant. Right, Um,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: but you can you could have looked all over underneath
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: the creosoat tree or whatever, and you walk away and
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: then you're like, I'll just go back and look again,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and there it is, just staring you right in the face.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Trip over a rock and you land on it. Right
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: there's the payot. So it's got this kind of neat
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: little uhum reputation for for hiding, playing hide and go
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: seek with you, and then it's like, okay, all right,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: go ahead and eat me and trip trip. I was
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: gonna say something else. Uh, like I said, it is
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: not red. Um, they can be brighter green, but uh,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: they can also look sort of bluish. Yeah, which is interesting.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: That nice like steel blue green. It's a pretty color.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: It is um and they grow and usually in clusters
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: with multiple plants, but sometimes you can find them individually
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and they I think they're very pretty, that little pink,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: white and yellow flowers. Um. They grow very low to
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the ground and they're just uh, it looks like you know, stubby, Yeah,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a little stubby tomato with um. Yeah. But it's not
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: it's not completely round. It has like sections. It's oh yeah,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: it's almost a little bit too. Yeah. So um yeah,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I see what you mean. You know what I mean.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: We're on beauty right now. Everyone. That's not true. Oh um.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: So this plant in particular has a weird history of
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: getting confused with other plants because some of the other
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: plants that go around it are also um consumed by
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: some of the indigenous tribes in the area and have been.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: But there's like a type of peyote plant that won't
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: it's not psychedelic. It just makes you kind of sleep.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: There's something um called the plant that has miss colbeans
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: um that are intoxicons of their own type, but they
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: can also kind of kill you. Uh. There was a
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: while there where payote Um was called both uh Lapaphoria
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Lapaphora william z and and Hellonium louini. Right, both have
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: two eyes on the end. And then somebody's like, now
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: that's the same plant. So there's a lot of confusing
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: horticultural history associated with I wonder why with payote it
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: was playing tricks, is what it was. So there is
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: a you know, people have used it not only for
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: um religious purposes, although that's a large part of it,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: which we'll get to in depth. But it does have
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: some anti microbial properties. I've seen that for in really
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: low doses that um. Certain tribes have used it for indigestion,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: to treat wounds, to give them energy to work on
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: a computer for days on end your hangovers. Uh, And
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: like anything psychedelic you could um technically you can use
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: it to help treat mental illness, but they don't study
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: that stuff in the United States. So again it's always
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: very hard to think about any sort of ecstasy or
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: magic mushrooms or anything without studying like clinical studies. Well,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: they and they did study for a while. UM mescaline,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: once they isolated it from peyote was used like LSD
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: was in the fifties until LSD came along. And they
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: used it because they thought that maybe you could glean
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: information about the root cause of schizophrenia by giving mescal
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: into people with schizophrenia. But they found out it was
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: too unreliable. People's experiences were too different UM and there
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: was no kind of UM structure that that the individual followed.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: And plus they found out people with schizophrenia could tell
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the difference between their delusions and delusions brought on by
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: mescal iguage. Is pretty interesting. Yeah, and when was that
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: in the fifties. I guess pre fifties because LSD came
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: along in So when you harvest peyote, UM, you cut
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: off that stem really close to the ground and they're
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: known as buttons. They look like I guess I've described
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: as pincushions, but they look like a little buttons. It
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, and Ed here Ed wrote this article
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: the grab st He said a typical trip is four
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: to six buttons and I thought that seemed like a
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: lot of peyote, because I had seen photos of some
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: buttons that were like as large as the palm of
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: your hand. And I'm trying to imagine eating eight things
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: that big, pier eight tomatoes that large. It's a lot
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: of tomatoes. But then I looked at other pictures and
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I guess those were like just super big peyote buttons,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: and most of them were a couple of inches and
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: circumference here that big. I thought they were more like
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: the size of a quarter or something like that. I
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: think between a quarter and like a silver dollar maybe,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: or a shilling for our friends in the UK? Is
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: that a Is that a quid? How does that all work?
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: A shilling? Oh man, we're gonna get emails about it.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: That's okay. A shilling is like twenty pence. I think
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: you're going on record. But four to six buttons, Um that,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: like you said, it's really better. So a lot of
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: times people won't want to eat it. Um. There are
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: all different kinds of ways you can make the tea
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: with it, and we're not giving you a how to write,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: but um, it's as simple as that. This is how
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: people take peyote. Sometimes they'll grind into a powder and
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: snorted or into a pill. I saw that you can
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: smoke it too, when it's dried and powdered. I've never
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: heard of that before, but I ran across it. But
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: here's the thing. If if you're down south of the
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: border and you're out hunting for peyote, uh, and if
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: this is something you want to do, more power to you,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: but be respectful of the plant. Don't go digging it
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: out with a shovel by the roots because you're gonna
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: kill the plant. Yeah, that's extremely disrespectful to a peyote plant,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: especially in the edition of like um groups indigenous tribes
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: that take payote for ritual purposes. You do not kill
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the plant. You don't cut off the peyote button so
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: um low that the roots can't regenerate, and you don't
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: dig the plant out. Yet despite that, people do it
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: all the time. And then that combined with feral pigs
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: who like to eat it and trip, they really trip.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know, they definitely like to eat peyote, so
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: probably um those two combined have really kind of put
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: a hurt and on payote um and it's range so
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: people who are like conscious of this stuff say, well,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: you can also get mescaline out of what's called the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: San Pedro cactus, which grows up in the Andes and
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: that's not threatened, are vulnerable, and then get it there. Yeah,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: just go go un improve, don't stop in Mexico, keep
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: going south. Should we take a break. Let's take a break.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Charge all right, let's take a break, and we're gonna
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that mescaline right after this.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Should know okay, stuff, you should know mescaline that is
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the primary psychedelic chemical, and that was synthesized What did
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: you say nineteen eighteen or nineteen nineteen nineteen by Ernest
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Spa Ernest Ernest Smith. That's how you'd say the A
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: with the new lat Yeah, so you go Ernt Smith,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: an Austrian chemist. Sorry, Ernest, I do like your name.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Who I did a little researchers not. This is kind
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: of the thing he did that's big enough. Don't you
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: think the guy isolated mescaline for Pete's sake? Oh no, no no, no,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not knocking it. I was just uh, I thought
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: it was gonna be like and you know what else
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: he did? And this is kind of what he did.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: He's known for that, right, like Joseph Priestley, who was like,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I discovered nitrous oxide and I also discovered ten other
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: things and start on Beverly Hills nine two And have
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: you ever seen my shirt? It's the Judas Priest logo,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: but it says Jason Priestly. It's pretty great. Is his
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: face anywhere in it? Or is it just it just
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: looks like the Judas Priest logo, but it says Jason Priestley. Nice,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I gotta see that. I like some of those shirts.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: That's it's one of the good ones. The one I
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: used to hate was the when Farfik new Again was
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the big thing and the hippies would wear the effin gruven.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I hated those all right. So um sith sith isolated mescally.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: In the following year, the pharmaceutical company Mark is like, oh,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: we'll just turn this through. No pharmaceutical started to get
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: studied and released, and UM things were going along fairly
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: swimming lee for it. Um it's a fennel ethel amine,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: which makes it different. Actually, um LSD and psilocybin, which
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: our trip to fans. They're in the indole family um
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Fennell ethel mean is the family that mescalin is in
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: and m d M A is in. And it's no
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: coincidence that m d M A and mescalin are in
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the same family because the chemist who created m D
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: m A, Alexander Shulgin, he was inspired to create something
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: like mescalin from a mescaline trip. He went on, Uh,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: imagine being like, oh I really like that psychedelic I
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: just took let me tinker around and make my own
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: version of it, and he created m D M A
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: as a result. It's kind of an homage to mescalin.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: He created m D M A and two C b U. Yeah. Well, um,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: what what mescalin does? It binds to the serotonin receptors
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: in your brain, and just like UM LSD or magic
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: mushrooms and stuff, it's going to cause a sense of
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: loss of the cell for ego and ayahuasca. We did
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: one on that too, righte. And the interesting thing is
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: is ed describes a tolerance with other psychedelics. So in
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: other words, if you take a bunch of mescaline, uh,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: it will build up a tolerance for LSD. Let's say,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: which is I guess it hits those same receptors. Yeah,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I guess, so, which is I guess a problem if
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: you take a ton of LSD. But but I have
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: a friend from college. I won't name him. But one
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: of the funniest quotes h he has about the old
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: days is I've definitely forgotten I've taken acid and taken
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: more acid. That's a T shirt right there too. That's deep.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: That's the eighties dead T shirt. It is um f
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: and grooven. Remember that, Yeah, I remember? No? Okay, no, no,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: no mindset funking Grooven. So um. When peyote binds to
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: those serotonin receptors, some of the cells that it binds
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: too are responsible for something called nausea, and one of
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the hallmarks of a peyote trip is you um very
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: typically feel nauseous and vomit for a couple of hours
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: sometimes leading up to the trip, and it's really slow
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: to cross the blood brain barrier, so it takes hours
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: to to come on. Yeah, but it also has a
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: real slow burn, a long burn to it, So compared
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: to other trips, it's actually a very long lasting trip,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: sometimes twelve hours as opposed to say six eight hours
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: for LSD or mushrooms or something. Twelve hours is the
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: trip you're going to be on on Payote. It's also
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: like really well known for being extremely visual and having
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: some interesting like body feelings to it too. Yeah, Like
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: you can feel nauseous, you can feel euphoric. You can
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: feel euphoric and nauseous, but you're gonna feel it in
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: your body as well as have a lot of like
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: really trippy visuals. I think didn't they take peyote in
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Doors movie? Yeah? And that's a really good he vomited
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I think? Right for megrind did That's where the whole
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: lizard king thing came from? Because I think they took
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: peyote in the desert. But it's also related to peyote
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: in a different way too, isn't it the Doors? Right?
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Because Aldus Huxley wrote Doors of Perception. He was a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: big mescaling guy. Whitn't he that that book was about
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: his first mescaling trip, right, And that's where the Doors
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: got their name. And then Jim Morrison went on to
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: write a bunch of bad poetry. Oh man, I thought
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: American Prayer was one of the coolest albums of all time.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I bought his poetry book. I was, you know, I
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: was way into the doors for like everyone for a
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: brief time in college, and I bought the book and
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: ever the poetry books and everything, and did you ever
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: listen to the album? Yeah? I thought it was all great.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Now though it might I'm kind of like, that's not
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: a great poetry, although maybe it is. What do I know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I'm the poet. You didn't even know it. So um.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: There's one other thing about Algius Huxley too. He coined
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the term psychedelic, really, and he coined it after his
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: first mescaline trip. Interesting, so mescalin, not even just peyote,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Mescalin has given the world m D m A the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: doors in the word psychedelic. I'm gonna have to tell
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Noel that because movie crushed listeners will laugh at this.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Noel describes about of movies as psychedelic. Oh yeah, I'll
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: bet he described Mandy as psychedelic. F Oh totally. I
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: mean you could have to you could not describe it
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: as psychedelic. Yeah, absolutely. Um, alright, so let's talk about
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: the history a bit. They've done some carbon dating. I
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: read this one study of these peyote buttons at an
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: archaeological dig site that said that use. It suggested that
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: use went as far back as fifty b C and
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that those buttons still had mescaline in them. That would work.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine tripping on seventy undred year old Payote buttons?
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't that be something that you shouldn't do? Well?
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I wonder if that makes it weaker or if it's
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: like a fine wine, if it's like strap in this
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: this is seven thousand year old mescaline. Yeah. Can you
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: imagine like a bottle of wine from Thomas Jefferson cellar,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: which apparently that stuff is not very good to drink. Uh,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: it's just like a flashy thing that super rich people
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: want on their shelf. Yeah. Yeah. So the name though,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: they think is derived from uh can you pronounce that?
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: The now? Now, it's all it's a it's the southernmost
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: group of the Aztecs. Okay. But the word they use
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: it is pay a tool p E y O t
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: L payotal, Yeah, payotal, payotal, payotal. That's yeah. I think
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: we got there. And they don't know what it means.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: But some people think it might means the word glistening,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: but not everyone is on that train. That's it you
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: could easily lose the the meaning of a word for glistening.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: You know, that's that's a high priority. But it's a
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: beautiful word. But that first, The first mention of Westerners
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: encountering peyote is in this sixteenth century study called the
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Florentine Codex, and there was a Franciscan missionary who wrote
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: it named Bernardino de Sagan Sahagun. And he wrote, and
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: this is in the late fifteen hundreds, on him who
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: eats it or drinks it, it takes effect like mushrooms.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Also also he sees many things which frightened one or
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: make one laugh. There you have it pretty straightforward stuff
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: for sure, but it definitely goes to show like, yeah,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: people have been eating mushrooms in Europe for a very
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: long time. UM. So over time, from like the sixteenth
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: century onward in North America, UM, people would come in
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: contact with tribes that had like peyote rituals, and they
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: would try peyote themselves and they'd be like, this is crazy,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: but this is great, or I puked my brains out,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: this is awful. Um. It's all these stories kind of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: started to come out. UM. And then over time peyote
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: used really diminished. It used to be very widespread, not
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: just where it grew, but even beyond its range. Like Um,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: indigenous tribes in the area used to trade, so it
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: people who took peyote ritually. UM even after Colombian contact,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: was pretty extensive. But then once like the missionaries took
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: hold and European governments took hold UM, that really got
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: outlawed to where it was basically boiled down to one
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: tribe called the Hui Chall. Actually, look that one up,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: is it we It's hoy but the the c h
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: O L is the um the one he emphasized, So
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it's Hochal, beautiful Charles, that's even better than Peyotal, at
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: least that's what the YouTube told me. The YouTube Emma
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: saying the one with the spiral, is that one accurate?
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they're They're mostly accurate. Hoch Yeah, Okay,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: So the ho ch All are very well known for
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: being the tribe most associated with payote ritual use these days,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: but they're also very much opposed to UM western encroachment,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: sometimes violently so. But I think those two are very
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: much interconnected. Yeah, I thought it was really interesting. I
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: didn't know that. I mean, um, instead of getting rid
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: of all the things that we did and just swapping
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it out for Christianity like they were being told to do,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: they would just say, hey, man, I'll incorporate some of
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: your Christian ideas into our payote ceremonies. Yeah, and not
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: just them, but the Native American Church, which will talk
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: about later, they did basically the same thing. That's right. So, um,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: you've got us uh a lot of payote use that
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: kind of went down to um one tribe and in
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: a weird way, it rebounded. No, it went, it shrank,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: and then it contracted eventually even larger than before to
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: where it is today. Yeah, Peyota used today is far
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: more widespread than it was a thousand years ago, isn't
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: that interesting? Well, part of it because of you know,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: American tourists, that's definitely part of it. And American tourists
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: were turned onto peyote by a guy who was a
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: U c. L A anthropology student back in the sixties
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: named Carlos Castaneda. That guy. Did you ever read any
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: of casts and news books? No? But he has been
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: sort of exposed as a fraud and a con man
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: in most academic circles, they will they will call him
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: that right in academic circles, right now, if you step
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: over a few rings to the new age circle. The
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: guy is a legend. And he wrote these books, um,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: that were supposedly ethnographic studies about Don Juan Mattis. And
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: this is where Portuguese wine comes in, Chuck, did you
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: read this any, Carlos Castana, Yeah, okay, yeah, back in
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: the day, good stuff. Yeah, it was very interesting. I
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: only remember. I mean i'd heard of him, but from
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: the Bong Water song. What what is that? They had
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: a song called folk Song where she talks about you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I went somewhere looking for that Carlos Castana experience. Oh,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: bong Waters the name of a band. Yeah, I got you. Yeah,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: that's a great name for a band. They were great.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Um so Carlos Castaneta Um, he created these ethnographic studies
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: that he turned into books that sold like ten million copies.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: And it was him being indoctrinated into the Peyote way
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: of life by a Peyote magician, a Yaqui Indian named
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Don Juan Maddis. And the Portuguese wine comes in because
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: his long time companion is convinced that Don Juan didn't
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: exist and that Carlos Castaneda made him up and actually
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: named him after Matteus, the Portuguese wine that she and
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: he used to drink together all the time. But she's saying, like,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean he's a fraud. That he he you know,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: combined all these lessons and everything that he learned from
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: his own payote trips to kind of create this character
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: that was like almost a spirit character, right, And everybody said, no,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: he's a fraud, like this was this was put out.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: There is actual anthropological field work, and he basically lied
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: and made all this stuff up and was exposed later
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: on by some colleagues who really went to great trouble
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: to expose him and undermine him because he sold two
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: million books ten million books still selling them too. It's
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: like that guy, remember that big controversy, Like, jeez, when
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: was it probably twenty years ago when or maybe not
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that long when Oprah exposed or yeah, she had him
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: on the show A Million Little Pieces that I read
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: that book. I really enjoyed it, and then found out
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: afterward about the fact that a lot of it was
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: made up, and I didn't care it was like, well, fine,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: call it a novel. Then enjoyed it. Yeah, but Over
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: really did not let that one go. Remember, she brought
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: him back on for just like she went on TV,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: like vouching for the guy or not vouching. But essentially
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: you're sort of vouching if you recommend his book, I guess,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: but really, I I don't know. I think the follow
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: up episode was unnecessary and really put the guy in
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: the stocks. Basically. Yeah, I just remember thinking at the
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: time he just should not have called it a memoir,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: just called it a novel. But and not to diminish
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: anyone's experience and rehab, which I think was the problem.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Is it kind of very much people, I think so.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, he basically made up some stuff about a
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: real life tragedy that people go through. Was that twenty
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: years ago? I don't think it was. When when I
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: think I was, I think it was like fifteen, because
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: it was right before I worked Here's when I worked
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: with the Chicken Killers well set uh so peyote. As
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: far as Westerners go, um, it was really the eighteen hundreds.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Its effects were first discussed by a doctor in Texas
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: named J. R. Briggs, who apparently just kind of stumbled
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: upon it when he met someone from the Kiawa tribe
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: who sold him some buttons, tried it out, wrote about
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: it in eight seven and and get this. He he
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: wrote that he um it was a respiratory stimulant and
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: his heart started racing. And within a year the company
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Parke Davis from Detroit, had a Payote tincture out that
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: They said, we'll replace the addicting cocaine for a respiratory stimulant.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And it was mescaline. Yeah, mescaline tincture. He just dropped
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: some mescaline. Well used to be the Wild West, didn't it. Yeah,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: but this is a Detroit, well, the wild Midwest. I've
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: got one more story about this too, alright, Park Davis
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: out of Detroit, Alistair Crowley. I don't know how he
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: found out that they had this mescaline tincture, but he
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: shows up at their door in Detroit, you know, Alistair Crowley,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: the occult. Sure, he shows up and knocks on the
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: door with his scepter and he goes, I hear that
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: you have some Payote tincture. Do you mind whipping me
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: up a special batch? And they did, and he said
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: it was like the best payote tincture he's ever had, really,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: out of all the payot tinctures, I guess he'd had
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of them. He wrote a book called Like
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: the Irie of a Mad Drug Fiend or something like that,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: So I mean he knew what he was talking about.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: But that's a good read. But the chemist at a
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: pharmaceutical company whipped up a special batch of peyote tincture
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: for him because he showed up on the doorstep. I
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: wonder if he goes by the lab and he's like, guys,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: this for Alistair Crowley just content, Yeah, it's a little
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: extra mustard in this one. So um. And there was
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: a pharmacologist named Louis Lewin or Lewis Lewin, and he
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: was the first to publish an analysis of these alkaloids
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: that we were talking about. And this is a so
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: stuff was going on back then in the late eighteen
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: hundreds that they didn't quite understand, but they were writing
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: about it. There's also an article from the Aspen Times,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: and I think that it's just a newspaper article about
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: some like white pioneer types who found some peyote buttons
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: from running into an indigenous tribe and took him in Aspen,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Colorado eventually was settled exactly. That's pretty bunny. Alright, Let's
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: take another break here and we'll talk about the Native
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: American Church right after this stuff you should know, rush
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: stuff you should know, so check. There's something really weird
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: about payote in modern times, and that is that the
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Native American Church um takes peyote. But the Native American
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Church is made up of plenty of tribes that never
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: were exposed to payote traditionally. That was all a byproduct
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: of the forced relocation and reservation settlements that the American
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: government forced upon them. Right, so they'll be like a
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Native American tribe in Canada that can take this. Canada
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: is nowhere near the natural range of peyote. And it's
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: not like it was traded all the way up into
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Canada back in the day. It literally came out of
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: this intermingling in the Oklahoma territory. And what makes it
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: even more interesting to me is that you can trace
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: it back to basically one man named Kwana Parker, who
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: was a Comanche chief who was a bad a dude.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: He was like one of the last holdouts and then
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: managed to go from like um like basically at war
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: with white settlers in the American government to one of
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: the leading leading politicians of the Oklahoma Territory who actually
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: bridged the gap between um, the white government and the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Indians who have been relocated. Um he somehow rather than
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: just being he went from bitter enemies to Okay, let's
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: figure out how to do this the right way. But
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: he was the one who introduced payote to the Oklahoma territory. Yeah,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: he went to Mexico in the eighteen eighties and I
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: guess brought a bunch back with him. So this stuff
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: is great. He said, let me just put a little
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: bit of this in my hat and I'm gonna ride
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: back with it. But the Native American Church became official
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighteen, which I thought was interesting, like right
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: around the same time that Mescaline was synthesized. And no
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: one really knows how many people they have because it's
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: not like um ed Ed says, it's like not a
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: tightly knit organization. It's more like a set of principles.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: And my the first thing he came to my head
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: is like, it's probably because they're not They're not after anything.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: It's like the Southern Baptist convention is very everyone knows
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: exactly how many members there are there because it's very
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: strict and formal codified. Because there's uh, I imagine they
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: have an agenda of some sort. Sure, I don't think
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: there's anywhere near the same agenda as among the Native
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: American Church. But they do share the fact that they
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: are a Christian organization. Oh yeah, that's as far as
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I know. They are Christian based Peyote Church. Interesting. Yeah,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: well the other interesting thing is you said, because it's
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: sort of a um, a mix of all different kinds
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: of tribes and people's that they have just sort of
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: settled on. Um. Like it's it's not like if they
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: use like drums in a ceremony or a rattle and
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: a ceremony, it's for that specific tribe. They're more like
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: generic Native American items, right, Yeah, it's almost like, um,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: this is yeah, there's no better way to put it really,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: or they'll have, you know, even if they didn't use
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: TPS in their tribe, they will have the Peyote Ritual
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: ceremony in a TP its representation, part of its representation.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: But also it was just a practical measure too, because
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: on the reservation under the very watchful eye of like
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: the White army officers who were in charge of ridding
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Native Americans of their customs and ceremonies. They couldn't do
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: these payote rituals out in the open any longer, so
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: they actually took them inside in secret into TPS, which
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: is why they're conducted in tps still today. Originally it
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: was just to keep from under the eyes of the
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: people who are charged with overseeing them eradicating their culture. Interesting,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: so they're like, let's just keep it in the TP, right,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: what happens in the t P state, You got it. So,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: a modern ceremony in the Native American church with peyote
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: is usually specific and it's focused on like healing most likely,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: and it's led by something called a roadman. You sit
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: around that fire, you take your payote, and you strap
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: in for an all night experience where you're supposed to
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: like really be into it. You're not supposed to lay
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: back and look at the stars or take a nap
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: or anything. You're supposed to really focus on. I guess
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: what you're trying to accomplish, right, or what the peyote
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: is telling you to pay attention to. Like you're yeah,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: it's not like like check out my hand. I'm waving
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: in of my first everybody see that funking groove in. Man,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: how long has this been happening? It's like two hours? No, man, right.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: And there's this science scientific American writer named John Horgan
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: who wrote about being in a um Native American church
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: payote ritual and he said, like, man, people were sobbing,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: people were throwing up, like there was it was very solemn,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: he said, and they were just being taught a lot
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: of stuff by the payote. Very interesting. And the Native
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: American churches in the United States the only group that
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: is allowed to um, trade, sell, possess, grow ingest payote.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And actually I don't think all of them can grow.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I think you have to be a licensed payo tero
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: to to grow or harvest payote um. But you can
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: be like I'm a member of the Native American Church
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: and I can take this and for a while, UM,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: from I think vent eight until the nineties, you had
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to be a Native America to be considered a member
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: of the Native American Church by the US government and
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: be um subject to be allowed to eat peyote. But
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: that's not the case anymore. No, there's a Supreme Court trial.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I think it's right. The American Indian Religious Freedom ACX
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and seventy nine four basically said it can't be very specific,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: so it's unconstitutional. So you could technically join the Native
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: American Church. You could technically submit um and petition the
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: government and register with the government and be a peyotero
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and grow peyote and take it and eat it. Yes,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: you Chris Ball. That's who Chuck speaking to right now.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Is Chris Ball the guy who's listening. Okay, gotcha. I
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: hope there is one Chris Ball. I kind of hope
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: there's not. No for legal reasons. But this was all
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: necessary because here in the United States, of course, um,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: it was classified as a habit forming drug in n
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: which it's not, which is not. And uh, let me see,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy the US past the Comprehensive Drug Abuse
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Prevention and Control Act, where they had to put everything
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: in categories, scheduled it as a Schedule one, labeled it
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: as a Schedule one substance, which is of course the
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: worst of the worst, they say, which is not. Uh,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: and that's kind of it. You got anything else? Yeah,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: one thing I forget to say is um even though
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: it's not related to LSD or mushrooms, it's frequently compared
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: to it in potency. And I saw that it's thirty
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: times less potent than then psilocybin. That pot is, yeah,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: thirty times less. Put This just seemed really weird to me,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: but I saw it in like an actual study from
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: San Diego State and Tijuana Tech Party School. Um, and
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: it's like one thousand to three thousand times less potent
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: than LSD. Interesting, Well, then what is this twelve hour like, well,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean it's not gonna like get on top
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: of you and you can have a really bad trip
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: and it's kind of like you're gonna trip for twelve hours.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: But supposedly dose specific like a graham of gotcha, got
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: maybe mescalin is just completely bonkers. The difference between the two. Well,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: because LSD they've sent the size down to you know,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: it's a little tiny piece of paper, it's not eight buttons.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, I think that's it. Then that's payote Yeah, um, okay, Well,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: if you want to know more about Payote, go read
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: some Carlos Castanado books. And since I said that it's
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: time for the listener mail. This is on eyewitness testimony.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, uh, I thought i'd chip in a little
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: bit about my own personal experience. So I've been living
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: and working in Japan for the last fifteen years. I've
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: noticed I'm perfectly capable of identifying Japanese. As a matter
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: of fact, I can sometimes recognize and pick out students
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: that I taught many years ago on the train or
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: the mall with relative ease. I live and work in
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: the Kansai area, which is a little smaller than New
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: York City in terms of population, so I see a
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: lot of people. Meanwhile, back in the States during the holidays.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: One time, I was shopping with my family, spotted my
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: mom from across the store and walked over to her.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: When I got closer, it wasn't my mom, it was
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: another woman that looked about the same agent height. And
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: he wrote back after I told him I was going
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: to read it and said, you know, I just want
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: to point out him just a white dude, Just a
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: white dude, right uh? And he said, so, I think
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: it's not that we are somehow magically better at identifying
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: our own race, but are just better at identifying the
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: kind of people that we are usually surrounded by, which
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: is usually our own race. Very good point. Was this
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: guy's name Chris Ball? No, he said, I thought you
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: might find that interesting. Anyway, If you're ever in Japan again, Josh,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: let me know. And just one small question for you.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Did you ever take the janguage the janguage the Japanese
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Language proficiency test, which I think they call the Jangled Test?
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: For sure? Did I ever take it? No? Had I,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I would have failed spectacularly. It's one of the great
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: shames of my life that, after all these years and
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: being married to a woman of Japanese ancestry, I I
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: speak very little Japanese. Al Right, well, he says, I've
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: just gotten done writing a book for the first level.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I'd love to send it to you. Oh yeah, please,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Chris is from Clayton McKnight Clayton, and he said, ps.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: One of the textbooks I use in class as a
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: hippie character in it named Rob. No, that's what he said. Wow, Yeah,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I would love to have that book because I would
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: like to learn Japanese. Yeah, Clayton, Thanks Clayton. I've been
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: to Kanzi too before. They have a beautiful airport there
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: that was designed by Renzo Piano. Nice. It's worth even
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: just looking up pictures of it. That nice. Did you
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: ever stay in that t W a hotel in New York? No?
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Have you? No? But I saw it in in a
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: magazine article and I thought it looked pretty cool. Yeah,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: it does look cool. I haven't been to New York
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: for a while. Yeah. The problem is staying out of
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: the airport. Yeah JFK. I mean, I guess if you're
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: just like staying there overnight for a connecting flight at work,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: let's do it all right. Uh. If you want to
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: get in touch of this, like Clayton did and um
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: offer us a language book or anything, or just to
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: say hi, you can go onto stuff you Should Know
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: dot com and check out our social links there, and
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: you can send us an email to stuff podcast at
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: i heeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff works. For more
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.