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11: Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions (CEO Katy Encalade) · The Infertile Diaries

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: What happens when the road to motherhood leads somewhere you never imagined?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: You've come to the proverbial fork in the road on your infertility journey.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now behind you is everything you've already endured.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Ahead are scary alternative choices you never thought you'd have to make.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: And standing between you and that next step, fear, grief, shame, and the question, can I really build my family this way?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: We all grow up imagining one path to parenthood.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: But wonder if the road less traveled and the one you never planned to take could lead you to a family you cannot yet imagine deeply loving.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're joined by Katie, who brings more than 20 years of experience helping create thousands of families through surrogacy and egg donation.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're asking all the questions that can feel overwhelming to even say out loud.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: What does it cost?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: How do you navigate the emotional, moral, and faith questions?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: And ultimately, how do you grieve the connection you imagined while opening your heart to another possibility?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Katie shares something on this episode that stayed with us.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: In her experience, not one of those thousands of families has ever come back to tell her they regretted choosing egg donation or surrogacy.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: The child that they now love was worth the detour.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that doesn't make the decision easy.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're standing at that crossroads, it may offer a glimpse of hope.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to choose your path today.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: But perhaps as you listen, the unknown will begin to feel a little less dark, and you'll find enough hope to see a next step.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: We discuss all this and more.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Infertile Diaries.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't just a podcast.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is your place, and these are your stories.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: A place of heartbreak to hope.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: This is the Infertile Diaries Podcast.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that you would, you know, take time out of your busy day to come on.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: But Katie Enclade is the president and CEO of Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions and a leading voice advocating for ethical, transparent pathways to parenthood, helping intended parents and professionals navigate complex family-building decisions with clarity and responsibility.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: You also have over 20 years or nearly 20 years of experience, and she's helped over 2,000 families, which is pretty incredible, navigate egg donation and surrogacy journeys.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm assuming you are a wealth of information.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: I have all the questions today.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: But you believe that bringing children into the world carries profound responsibility and that protecting the dignity and well-being of everyone involved must remain at the center of family building.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: Most certainly.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: Katie has a special place in my heart because egg donor in Sarrogate Solutions is who we used to bring Beckham into this world, and it was such an amazing positive experience.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: You guys were absolutely wonderful every step of the way.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: And then ever since we started our charity, Everyone Deserves a Family, you've been our number one supporter from the first year, and I am so grateful for your partnership and trying to support others.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the work that you are doing specifically from a financial aspect is just so huge.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: It it matters to families so much.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we you know what?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: We're up to eight babies.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: We have three on the way that are gonna be born this fall.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, eight families we've created in just since 2023.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it's been really, really cool.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, very and and not, you know, um a ride range of surrogacy, adoption, and infertility.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: So we're we're hitting it.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm just so grateful.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: So well, Katie, tell us how how did you get started in egg donor and surrogacy?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like you said, I do have a personal connection.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I say I was an egg donor a million years ago.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't quite that long ago, but it does feel that way.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it was when I was in college, um, egg donation was something that I ran across after doing some research on just what do people do who can't have kiddos.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I say now, like, oh, if Chad GPT existed, it probably would have told me really quick, but it didn't back in the day.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then of course, later I became a surrogate.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: The little guy I carried is now 11.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: His birthday was this summer, and it really seems hard to believe.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've experienced family building in other ways too, including foster care.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I've just had the opportunity to walk with people, building their families in different ways from different perspectives.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I started in the industry to um elevate the transparency that's required in this process, the education around it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Started in the egg donor world.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then like my surrogacy journey didn't come without complications.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: I got really sick during my pregnancy.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up needing additional medical support on our journey when I was only about 23 weeks pregnant.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that experience like shaped a lot of how I lead our organization today, because I realize you can't just build like a good program that hoping that everything goes right.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to build a program in case something goes wrong.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so over time, that's just become my personal calling to help people every day um walk them through, educate them, support them.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I absolutely love it.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you so you had the calling very young.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like you knew you were meant to help other people create families, like at a very young age.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I think it naturally um it is kind of a weird part of our story, I guess.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, egg donation obviously came first, and then and then my career was launched in a sense out of that.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was asked to like join a team from a marketing perspective.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what my degree was in.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then like I kind of layered and figured some things out, and I realized um this was a fast decision that some people were making, and it really couldn't be.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I myself did not do enough research to decide to be an egg donor.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remember going to my appointment because I was 21, and 21 is young to be making a big decision.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember going to my first appointment and she started going through medications, and I was like, uh I'm uh uh uh medications, needles?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And but then I knew like I made a decision, I made a commitment to this family, and obviously I was going to help.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so then going and working in the industry, I did truly realize that the education isn't isn't quite there, that pitfalls are not explained, that timing.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I started our egg donor program, that was our goal, and that is still in the forefront of everything that we do.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and that is different.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can count on one hand the number of cycles that have fallen through, you know, ways down the path because a donor chose to not move forward anymore.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for most agencies, that's a typical occurrence.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it really just comes from my personal experience.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've team members that have been donors too that are able to really explain and dive into this process before someone makes that really big commitment to help a family in this way.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, Katie, um, take us through.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So at 21, you were an egg donor.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then did you have your three children and then you were a surrogate after you were done with your children?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So a typical surrogate should be a surrogate should be done building her family or fine if she couldn't, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because pregnancy comes with its own amount of risk.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we as an agency um would never accept a surrogate that, like, oh, well, we had one baby and we're gonna wait five years, so I might as well be a surrogate in between.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: That is not an ideal surrogate candidate.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, yep, I had three babies far too fast.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: We say we had them early and often.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um they are 18 next month, 16, and almost 15.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So they're all 19 months apart.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: My first time.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And as fast as they came, yeah, they're gonna leave, which is a real hard reality.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, she has the most beautiful family.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've got to show you some of her family.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you guys are just like beautiful inside and out.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, okay, so I want to know because uh this is probably one area that I haven't done.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I walk us through if you are considering um getting an egg donor, like you've got the news, like you've got um what is it, low AM8?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: What is yeah, low AM8 or you know, whatever.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: You're you're basically given a very, very small chance.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: And here's something that could be the way you're gonna be mom and dad.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it, it looks a lot different than surrogacy, I'll tell you that right now.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just the dynamic of selecting somebody looks different because the relational component isn't quite there.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um egg donation starts typically with matching and understanding what matters most to intended parents.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our job is then to help a family look past like a photo and list of characteristics, but that's where most people start.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: So they identify a donor that typically there's some sort of physical resemblance, not always, but typically that is the healthiest way to start this process is to realize, um, especially as a mom walking into this process, that you're not looking for your replacement.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: You are selecting a donor who's going to help you become a parent.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, they are contributing those, the biological piece of this process, but they're not replacing you as a mom.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like family is built through that relational connection and what that looks like.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's built in those everyday moments, not the genetic component.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so, or it's not the only way.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so um typically they are looking for something.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I use the example of it doesn't have to be.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you look at the three of us, ironically, we are all white blonde women, but like any of us could have served as an egg donor for one another, to be honest.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: But depending on maybe the other half of genetics, you may have some other um components.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I myself um have three biological kiddos, and um, I usually say one and three look just like my husband.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: They have dark hair, dark eyes, darker complexed skin.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my middle daughter is very sad that she got her mother's lighter complexion.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: But she's um loves her very, very blonde hair and light eyes.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um she's like, why can't I have Maggie skin?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, because you look like me and Maggie looks like dad.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um my husband's like, Cajun, darker um skin complexion.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that is the case.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like you throw those genetics down, it doesn't matter how it works, and it comes, you know, plays out however it wants to.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a funny game.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is a funny game.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I usually say, you know, my advice to families usually is you're not gonna look for your replacement.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Look, be flexible with maybe what else is gonna be brought to the table as well through that process, so you don't pigeonhole yourself with physical characteristics and maybe you can look at some other things.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes, you know, there's always a conversation of nature versus nurture, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but some of it can be um intellect can be a part of that process.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, however, I usually do like just because that donor went to an Ivy League school, just like probably most of her siblings didn't go to an Ivy League school, that is not guaranteed.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or just because that donor played the piano doesn't mean your child is going to be a piano prodigy.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, but what is most important is that, in my mind, what is most important is that when it comes time to share that child's creation story with them, as a parent, you're able to say, we are really grateful for your donor for helping us have you.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe we met her, maybe we didn't, but she was so kind.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and one thing that drew us to her was X.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that can help like personalize and connect that with a kiddo as to as to why that donor was selected and why some of the special things about her, maybe even are the special things about them.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: So being in that journey together and communicating that in a way.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember working with a mom super early on, and she told me her physical characteristics, and I'm trying to help her.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden she comes back with a donor number, and I got her on the phone and I was like, So tell me, why did you select her?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And she goes, Oh, she just reminded me of my best friend.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: She plays this, and she actually went to the same school as my best friend, and I really just wanted to pick somebody that I knew I could like enjoy and have fun with.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So she reminds me of my best friend, and that's why I picked her.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, That's pretty cool.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and like that's what she'll she'll tell her child one day.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, and and that's the the beauty in it.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of different reasons, but I do I have a question.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so like, and we'll go, we'll kind of get to Sarrogacine next, but does the egg donor in your agency work the same way?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Where, well, evidently the intended parents they go through a catalog.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Now, are the have these egg donors already given their eggs?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are they in a bake?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: And how many eggs do you get?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: And like what happens if it doesn't work?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, kind of like how many times do you get with one egg donor?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'll take us down a little bit different path to explain because you asked kind of two questions.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: So there are two different ways that a family who needs eggs can go about that route.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: One is using a fresh donor, where that's what we do.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: They look at a database, they select a donor, that donor works with their clinic, they get all the eggs retrieved to build their family.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that is usually best for families who want multiple children, may need multiple transfers, um, would like to have a legal document in place, being very clear as to their parentage, which we find, and I'm sure everyone's seen, like the reproductive landscape legally is changing a lot, and we anticipate it will more.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're a big fan of legal documents in place.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it gives them the opportunity to potentially connect with that donor later on.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Most of our families end up, well, our average family ends up with six genetically normal embryos after they've gone through the process with a fresh donor.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's more obviously, sometimes it's more.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's our average, that's one way.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you choose one donor, she is going through this process, she is going through screening, medications, retrieval for you at your clinic, embryos are created.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: The second is kind of what you asked about, and that's frozen.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there are frozen egg banks that women have already gone through the retrieval process, and they have frozen those eggs in lots.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: So a successful cycle for a frozen bank would be the same amount of eggs retrieved from a fresh program, but then they're gonna put those in lots of six, sometimes eight.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So a family purchases six or eight eggs, they get shipped to their fertility clinic, embryos get created, and most of them have a guarantee that you'll get one embryo.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't get one, you can get another batch for free.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so there's a cost difference in that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: But typically those eggs are being released to the bank.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's obviously not a legal agreement in place saying that I donor 5678.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm releasing my eggs to this family and that they are the parents.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have no rights or responsibilities.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is theirs.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the difference in the fresh versus frozen aspects.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the women who choose to donate that way, their eggs are being spread amongst multiple families.
• 18:22
  unknown: Okay.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because I remember being in college, I mean, back 20 years ago, and having friends that would donate eggs.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm assuming it's kind of like the latter, right?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Where they're donating it, they're getting frozen.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I donated 20 years ago to a single family.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's Right, totally.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's both.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um they could have been going fresh, they could have been going frozen.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if they don't know, they should find that out.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it's a harder, it's a harder path to look back 20 years from now.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, records were not the same.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is safe and secure as it is now.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: So do you, Katie, do you still have a relationship with the family you donated donated the eggs to when you were 21?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so no, I do not have a relationship with that family.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um I donated now almost 20 years ago.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and back then, uh, they they really called it anonymous egg donation.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So just like we've seen um the adoption path kind of move over the last 30, 40 years, we're now seeing that with egg donation too.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: So even when I first got into the industry, we like our paperwork.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Everything said this is an anonymous donation.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know, they don't know the donor, the donor doesn't know them.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so actually to this day, I do not know the family that I donated for.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know what the outcome was.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have done the proper channels to make sure that that family knows, should their kiddos ever be curious about anything that I'm available.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because statistically, children are curious about something, um, and having that door open is helpful.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: But as an agency now, we have a different perspective.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we encourage all of our donors to be willing to be identified at some point in the process.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: For some people, they do start a conversation and connection early on.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for some people, that's just basic information, um medical or basic updates.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: All of our donors are required to update with anything like that that may come up, and and donors in their contract are required to update into parents either through a secure portal or through us.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, any genetic um family health history or with their kiddos that could be helpful for that family.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we encourage all of our families to be really comfortable with um sharing with their child early their birth story and how they came into this world, and that there was someone that was willing to help them along this journey.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then that story, you know, will grow in time.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we typically recommend that families just start by saying, yeah, there was this really nice lady that helped us help you.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's all you have to say, or your donor.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then that conversation grows in time when it becomes more age appropriate.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: I and it is so important because it might not sound like it, like if you're like debating it and you think, oh, that's so scary, or I might wanna, I might wanna never tell my child that, like pre-conception and pre-birth, when they get older, it just grows and grows.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and you're I think you kind of switch into it's not about me, right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: And and this is this is from me, like going through adoption and surrogacy.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: When I see my child and they're growing older and they are curious, and they're awesome little kids.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um I want to be like, I am team Gavin.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you want to know?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's go.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like I am here to help you because this is your story.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so That's a good way to look at it.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's my that's my kind of outlook from being going as an intended parent, not going through egg donor, but adoption and seriously, is that it is important, I think, to have the open door because while you may think it's not important or now, I think down the road you'll realize that you'll want to have it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, sure.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and then respecting you you telling them.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we tell families uh, you know, often that you can either go on this journey with your child one day or they can go by themselves.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: But if you start with early disclosure and you talk about those things, then they're gonna come back to you as the parent and saying, like, hey, I want to help navigate this.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I have a question about this.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, why did you make that decision or why did you go on that path?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or if they do have something curious that they want to know, like our families can print out a profile and they can read basic information.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think the kicker is most people are going to figure it out one day.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're just, and it depends on um the feelings you you as a parent can control the narrative of how that child feels about disclosure later on.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I just don't believe with genetic testing.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I laugh and giggle because me and my sister decided to do 23 and me at the same time before all their stuff changed.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And like she did it at first, but then it was quite like she had a lot of privacy settings on.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: But in the meantime, I called my parents and I was like, hey, so we're gonna do this genetic testing.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: You got anything to share with that family?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's like so funny.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: You just let us know before we're giving you the L.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, tell us beforehand.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then I did it and it didn't match, it matched me with like my first cousin, and that was it.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's okay.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is weird.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why is it only this one first cousin?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: And my sister looked and she was like, Oh, I think I have privacy settings on.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sure enough, she turned those privacy settings on, and I got an email that said, We think we made a match with your sister.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, Well, good thing I have a sister.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that could have been a really interesting email to have received if I didn't know that I had a sister.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: So one thing I wanted to know, and we have um a pretty big support group, and they sent in some questions, and one of the things that they wanted to know was just like the cost.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is the basic cost of egg donation?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like what some someone who's kind of just getting into the process, what can they expect?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can, and it's it's hard to quote fees being that you can you all have listeners uh all over the place.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you're all in somewhere around$40,000 to$65,000.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like when it's all said and done, you could have bought a nice Tahoe.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um But yes, because you're you have the component with an agency or even a bank.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like even buying the eggs is is a piece of this puzzle too.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you have agency costs, you have a donor compensation, legal expenses, psychological, genetic testing, medications, monitoring, potentially travel.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't select a donor that is in your city with your physician, and that donor needs to travel to your city, then there's fees associated with that.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then those clinic costs can be there can be considerable differences between your clinics.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I usually tell an agent, uh, a family that's searching through this process, like, touch base with your with your clinic and say, hey, what cost can I expect if using a fresh donor?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can go to an agency and ask that same question.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: For us, we're gonna tell you somewhere between 25 and 35 is what we're gonna quote you on our portion.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're able to put those numbers together depending on what you're looking for.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then is there any guarantee with that?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know previously you were saying that like with like the frozen, it guaranteed you like one embryo.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, like with those costs, are there any fail-safes in there?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, there's not like an entirely a fail-safe.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, someone could walk away without a baby, but like for that price, are there some kind of built-ins in there?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, odds are good.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for us as an agency, if we have a family that we facilitate a journey and we collect an agency fee on them for our services, if they do not have a baby, we will facilitate another cycle at no cost for us.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we feel like, I mean, that's the piece that we can control as an agency.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's the way that we can give back.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't happen very often.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we'll work with the professionals that, you know, the attorneys or the mental health and we'll, you know, ask for a favor pretty much and say, like, hey, this family's really been through the ringer, what can you do?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then they could do that same thing with a fertility clinic.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now there are clinics that are like all in prices.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and depending on your personal care um and what you've experienced and why you think you haven't gotten pregnant, um, that could or could it be a good option for you?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: One of the parts that question was are there any programs available to help with the cost of using a donor egg or egg?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm sitting right next to the lot of families, but we are still a young organization.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I know like even when you're going through IVF, there's certain financing.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: Do you work with any anybody that could find okay?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: So you do have like if you needed to finance it.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's some financing options.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of grant programs that give for different reasons and different spaces and different pieces of the puzzle.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's a good resource as well.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes there are fertility benefits through your insurance company.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not common that fertility benefits would cover things for the actual egg donor.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody's gonna pay her compensation or her travel or the agency fee, but sometimes it will cover the medications or it'll cover the retrieval and transfer.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have worked with a few families for and it was in surrogacy as well, that like they had a fertility benefit that they could use towards adoption or anything like that.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were just given there's been different, you know,$30,000 or$40,000 that they could just apply, and we provided receipts, and their company wrote a check.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: That is amazing.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we gotta research those companies.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: And let's add that to our list.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: My husband's company, they or our insurance covered our IVF.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: So we felt very, you know, grateful because I know that's not common.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that is not common.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, hopefully we'll get there, right?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's the that's the end goal for all of this.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's the goal.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, do you have any other questions specific to egg donor from the listeners?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think one portion of it, and we've had some guests on the show that even like I have a cousin that's kind of in the process right now.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: She had cancer early on and is not able to use her eggs.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so they are looking at using an egg donor.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a big component that a lot of the girls talked about was just that emotional component, just adjusting emotionally to using an egg donor.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like grieving.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: Grieving their own, like their own fertility.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is that piece that you've seen with girls that are able to kind of get over that hump and be like, okay, you know what?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want a child, like, let's move forward and see what happens.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is there something you found that kind of connects women that are able to move forward?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a few things.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it is what we talked about earlier is just realizing that families are built in all different ways and that we, you know, it's a blessing that we have different resources that we do have in order to build families.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: But very few little girls thought that they were going to need to build their family in more than one way.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I told the story of my daughter last year, like she was in biology class, and by, you know, teachers like talking about traditional ways that families are built.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: And my daughter raises her hand and she's like, no, no, no.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: All you need to make a baby is an egg and a sperm and a uterus.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes people have to have someone helping them find one of those things to have a baby.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, awesome, great.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that teacher is about to send me an email.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I did think, and I told her, like, that isn't a good job.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she understood that.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was just like, good job.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for, yeah, and thank you for normalizing it, right?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually it starts at that layer.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if we will start normalizing, especially for women, that like there's other ways.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: There, there's not just like this one path to parenthood, that alone would help women when they're faced with these decisions, be able to look at it differently.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: But outside of that, I think support groups, I think that's beautiful that you have support groups.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have anything geared specifically towards egg donation, we'd be happy to raise our hands and help and put you in contact with some women that have gone through that process.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, two of our team members built their family through egg donation and and they love sharing that experience and what that looked like.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's just knowing that, like, if your ultimate goal is to build your family and have a kiddo, um coming to terms and realizing that you may not play a genetic component of that and and deciding what that really means to you.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I haven't had a single family that's come to me and said, I cannot believe we used an egg donor.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot believe that was a good thing.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: I was actually gonna ask you that because it's so true.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's like even and I tell people that with adoption too.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I have not heard one person say, oops, I made a bad decision.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's generally like, I am just so blessed.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: I am so lucky, they are so amazing.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't even think my own kids could be as amazing, but then I had Beckham and like, yes, but you know, it was just it is.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's just an a mental overcome.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I love the advice you gave on we need to start normalizing it in high school, and when you start to learn, like, okay, it's not just you're gonna get pregnant.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think one of the uh um guests we had on, she's like, Yeah, same thing of get Cassie.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she's like, Okay, well, she went to the doctor, she's like, So I did A and B what they said to do, and um She was like, Sex ed said this would work.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I'm so jealous.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we're told and don't do this because you're gonna get a baby.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah, well, nope, didn't get a baby.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I know, I know.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's switch a little bit just for the sake of timing, um, and talk a little bit about surrogacy um and what your agency does there because um it's a little bit different with the matching um with the surrogate and the intended parents.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: So why don't you walk us through a little bit of that process?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a really good question, and we could talk about it for an hour, I'm sure.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um I think I'll just start by saying what a good match is because sometimes people think that matching is just two people that have checked the same boxes on an application.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And although the application matters and it gives up, gives us as an agency kind of a baseline as to what we're looking for, um, you know, there's screening involved, there's education, there's conversations before that.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, important parts of that matching is understanding like a surrogate's motives and her medical history, the support system, the preferences that she has, um, and then the flip of that with a family as well.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: So there's some check boxes on, you know, what do you think about termination or reduction, or how many embryos are gonna be transferred, or relationship expectations, travel, delivery, who's in the delivery room, how is that delivery happening?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And but all of those circumstances can change.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of this baseline thing that we as an agency and a good agency is gonna work to ensure that you kind of align on those things.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but more than that, there's the relational component of it.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um do you trust that person that you're walking through this process with that carrying your dials?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, and and ultimately that that is the part, you know.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Crystal on our team will talk about how the contract is like the bare minimum standard for how we treat people.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people come into this process with a contract, assuming that, okay, well, this is gonna happen and this is gonna happen and this is gonna happen.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the bare minimum as to what somebody can expect.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: What really is a great match and what really is a great journey is when something happens that's unexpected.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: How do you work together to solve that problem or to come to a new conclusion to evaluate those circumstances where everybody can feel good about this in the end?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so people are choosing each other based on more than just those check boxes.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: It isn't about just two people agreeing, it's about peoples whose values and expectations are aligned enough that they can navigate those really hard conversations and situations together.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because what happened when you were a surrogate, you said that you needed some extra medical care.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Are you okay talking about them?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in I'm in Texas, and I don't know how familiar you guys are with bluebell ice cream, but it's like a Texas ice cream.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was pregnant, they had a listeria outbreak.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: And literally, um I I got a call, and it was the local grocery store like, hey, you bought this ice cream, and um, that was contaminated with likely with listeria.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what's listeria again?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was still young when I was a surrogate.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh yeah, that's why you don't eat lunch meat.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's why.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only way I know listeria.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I knew the rules, but I didn't know why there were the rules, maybe.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was like, oh, here are the complications.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: And literally five days before that, I had been so sick.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, we were um our house at the time, our bedroom was upstairs with the kids.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember getting sick and laying on the bathroom floor for like three to four hours.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was so sick, I couldn't get up.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't get my phone, I couldn't call my husband.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I could not move.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought, like, oh, I and I kind of felt contractions and but like there was towards the end, I was like, oh, I guess that was a contraction.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I was just sick.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it wasn't until then that I realized, oh my goodness, that that's what I just thought I had a horrible stomach bug, is what I chopped it, you know.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was better really fast.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I called my OB immediately.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: They sent me to an MFM, they did screening and testing.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was checked into the hospital, I was put on monitors, I was put on IV infusions.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um ultimately that's where the trust came in, right?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I I didn't mean to do anything, just a pregnant girl eating ice cream.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I didn't do.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like a pint of ice cream.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, like, no, didn't do anything wrong.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: But um the mom that I was caring for, she said, Katie, we trust that you are gonna make the same decisions for our baby as you would make for your own.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, like, that could have been really ugly.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: That could have been, well, why did you do that?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And didn't you know?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: And are you gonna do this testing?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna do that?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately we also looked up, and um, I was just sitting there on Ivy antibiotics.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't doing anything else.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I had three kids at home, and of course, this family is racking up tons of medical bills.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember just asking, like, why am I here?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, surely there's another solution.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, Well, you could go home on home health and do your infusions at home.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I called the family that I cared for, and I was like, How do y'all feel about this?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Yes, please.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we went home and we did that.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of me sitting at a hospital and getting three infusions a day, I went home and did that myself.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and luckily the little guy, he was just as healthy as can be.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, um, they said I got sick really, really fast.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can tell you the time that I ate the ice cream because I was eating it when my husbands were picking up kids from preschool because I didn't want to be judged.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I know what time I ate that ice cream.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I was sick within like seven hours.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they say, like, no, you were sick and you were that sick.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that that infection didn't ever get to him.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it did put us on a trajectory of um a more high-risk pregnancy.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I started going to the OB all the time, and they did a lot of testing um once he was born, and there were some things that we needed to do with breast milk, but um, just walking through with them and um the grace that they showed me and the trust and understanding is what really matters in this journey.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's pretty cool.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so kind of that was your that was your motive for like I let's incorporate this into with egg donor, right?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, because you did the egg donor agency first and then you added surrogacy.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, no, I love it.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: You guys are amazing.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I want to switch real quick.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have any other questions specific to Sarrogate?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: We did, we were able last week, it was so special.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: We had Ray come on.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, ours, my surrogate.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, so special, you know, like an attended parent and surrogate together.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'll actually have to send it to you when it's done, just so you can share it with anybody that's like questioning a relationship.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't think about it till after.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: We kind of brought her on to talk about surrogacy, but then like here we are, kind of sharing stories, and I it was really cool.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: I go, you know what?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: We went to dinner after.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: I go, when do you ever get to see an intended parent and a surrogate communicate like that?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like we didn't have kids running around, we didn't have anything, it was just you and I.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, that's gonna be like really special because we, you know, we were genuine, we weren't like scripted or anything.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, and just the beauty of just like how you guys work together and the birth story and just all of it.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'll have to send that because it I mean I would love that again.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: You my personal experience, I work I worked with an adoption agency and I've worked with a donor and surrogate solutions, and I think you know, sometimes maybe um agencies have a stigma because they're like, Oh, why would they charge um to adopt or why would they charge for this?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: But let me tell you, like, oh the way I I can I can say it to listeners is you if you're gonna be doing the most important thing, you want someone that that you trust also in your corner.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you guys don't cut corners, you matched Ray and I.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think before or even we were talking about it, our applications were in because um the client coordinator, um, I forgot her name out of Tampa.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: She she's like the engine.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, Lauren.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Lauren, yes.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: She she got us in, she goes, Oh, I think I read through, I think I've got a match for you.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: And she but she didn't tell us more, and then she told Ray the same thing, and you guys take time and you care, and you've done it for so long.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know how to make good matches.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so you know what it's kind it's 100% worth your fee, and then you're managing it everywhere along the way, and there are a lot of small things you have to do, and and you are just pretty much given an email like here's what you have to do now, here's the attorney.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to make the attorney, you don't have to find the attorney.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Here's like where you go, and and here's the psychologist, and now you just you're scheduled at this, and you know what?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's just it's amazing, it's very personalized, and so yeah, because we just had a guest come on and say she went to the clinic and they gave her like the book of egg donation.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: She was like, Ah, oh no.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: And Lindsay was like, Oh, let me connect you with Katie.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's a very different way like you can do this, you know?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it is, I mean, and it is just.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's options.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: There that is true.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are matching services.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: We are not just a matching service.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, the match is the beginning of that process, but there's education, there's communication, there's support.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: An agency is responsible for solving conflict with changing circumstances and navigating the pregnancy and delivery.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, since you've, I could rattle off 500 ways that our coordinators serve families now that they didn't when you even came through our process.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: But we, you know, we work through the birth plan and what that needs to look like for everybody.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we get that on file with the hospital and make sure everybody is on the same place.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: And like our team's job is to just remove all the debris and the issues as they're coming.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I often say, like, I think people do get to the end of this journey and they think like, oh, I could have done this with an agency without, I could have done this without an agency.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I'm like, I consider that a win.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: I actually think that that is good because they have no idea all the things that are done on behalf or the, you know, the red flags or the issues that we thought we saw coming.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, insurance has become a nightmare for, I mean, I now have three people on my team that handle insurance.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: And five years ago, we had none.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we didn't, I mean, there are like jobs that have been created.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you used to be able to get somebody's medical records just by calling.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, like, we have to have a whole service that helps to go through that process.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So what was simple and easy is no longer simple and easy.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there's laws that change and there's different things that we have to navigate.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, it's a lot.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: It is staff.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, most of my budget goes to staff.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but having those key people that are experienced is what is going to make someone's family-building journey through surrogacy or egg donation a beautiful one and one that they can look back on and think of it positively.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: I could not agree more because it really was for, I mean, it was seamless for me.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: All the things, all the small details were taken.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: So all I had to do was show up, see my baby growing on all the scans and the doctor's appointments, and then deliver my baby in the bed in the delivery room, and that was it.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Katie, a question for you.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously, we have listeners like all over the country that are listening.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: So you're located in Texas.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if someone is interested in using a surrogate through your services, what laws do you abide by?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you abide by like the state laws?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then are you trying to match someone with a surrogate in their state?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of like Lindsay was like matched like with someone in Florida.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how does that work?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if someone in Montana is like, I would love to use Katie, like, how does that work?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we as an agency are based in Texas.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's just where we pay taxes and where we're formed and all of that, and where our home office is.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but actually, we have team members in nine different states.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we still have a team member in Tampa.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, if someone really wanted to meet someone in person where they were, they could most certainly do that.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, since we are service-based, where we as an agency is located matters little.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there are interesting things with certain states.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um, Texas and Florida, ironically, being two of the more particular states on laws with surrogacy, because that's it.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't one federal law that um covers surrogacy.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: Surrogacy is determined by each individual state, um, as well as IVF.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um, like I'll call it out.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a hard part that's going on in Texas right now.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: There is definitely legislation that's being drafted that they're wanting to eliminate IVF and surrogacy and egg donation where families in Texas wouldn't be able to use those services.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was some in Florida drafted um last session, it didn't go through, which was like, yay, that's a win.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be important for you to have an agency that understands the laws of your state, but also a good agency is gonna partner with um a lawyer.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: But a family can have a surrogate almost anywhere.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: They just have to know that that's where those contracts are drafted.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: So surrogacy contracts should be drafted in the state where the child is going to be born, and that's where parentage.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not sure when you guys will release this.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but obviously the largest surrogacy case that is hitting the news right now has everything to do with a surrogate leaving the state where parentage was established.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: If she would have stayed put, there wouldn't be any question about who mom and dad are.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was established in that state.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was when she chose to leave that state where parentage became in question.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why, like surrogates, their contracts say they can't travel.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, like for me, I was in Texas and we looked up and I was like, oh my gosh, we booked a vacation in Florida, and I was gonna be like 28 weeks pregnant, which was a little beyond.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, we had had some complications, and and we didn't want me to have a baby in Florida because the family, although we could have gone through the rig and roll and it wouldn't have been like their parentage was established in Texas.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, the family in Montana can work with a surrogate in Florida.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Contracts are just gonna be drafted in Florida, they're gonna travel to Florida.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not always simple and easy to find somebody right next to you that agrees on all of those things.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for some people, that's good.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, the family that I carried for, they were there, they were in Texas, but we were not in the same city.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: And for myself, who had three kids under six and a busy business, like it it worked out well that she was not interested in being at every single doctor's appointment and us having lunch after and all of that.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: We could talk, we could text, we could communicate.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now we are really sad that we don't live closer to each other.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, every time I'm in Houston, um, you know, hey, can I come stay the night?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: I have to go see a clinic.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I get to see them.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, sometimes it's been like, well, you can meet us at the baseball field because that's what we have going on tonight.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or they came up about two years ago and they had to go to a wedding in Dallas, and she was like, Can you keep the kids?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's no kids at the wedding.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, sure, yep, we're happy to.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: So um the state laws differ, um, but parents and surrogates do not have to be in the same state.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just where that contract is drafted, it needs to be surrogacy-friendly.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: Between us, that would be not Louisiana.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, and then one more question was so, and this was kind of a question that we had that came up for Ray as a surrogate.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: So when you were saying, like it was kind of nice that you were in a different city and that you didn't necessarily she didn't, the mother didn't come to like every appointment.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is that something that's more like you driven, like surrogate-driven, or like intended parent-driven?
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: Or is it something you agree upon like when you first start the process, or what does that look like?
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think um it is it's a communal decision.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I didn't think in my head, like, I don't want to be matched by somebody that lives right here.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: What I did know is I didn't want to be matched with somebody that needed me to be accessible 24-7 to every single thing that they had going on.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell you even matched.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can tell by Apple.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we, that's that's what Lindsay, you were mentioning.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, whatever you were saying and your conversations about what your expectations and communication and all of that was Lauren was getting the same vibes, and then and then you're meeting together.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more than she's understanding.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: We're both like kind of very just like open people and like very easygoing, and like that's what she would match.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: And and honestly, I think what really happens with all of it is you, the intended parent and the surrogate, figure out in their relationship the little things the agency isn't gonna micromanage that.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, they can't, they're doing other very important things, they're not gonna worry about if she gets her feelings hurt, if they're gonna go to a doctor's appointment.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: I would say if it's an ongoing issue and one of them brings it up, they would intervene, correct?
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Most so and and yes, and we do.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, we do.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because there are things like um, I mean, we've had families that uh GC posts a picture of her family at Chick-fil-A and intended parent messes messages GC and says, I'm really worried about how much fast food you're eating.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, they went to Chick-fil-A.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that is when we're like, ooh, so we can't regulate what people eat.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, just because her family goes to Chick-fil-A doesn't mean your baby's not getting the nutrients that it needs.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've learned over the years how to ask the right questions.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: But for some GCs, like they would be fine with that.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody wanted to give them a meal plan and a structure and everything that needs to be followed, um, then some would be okay with it.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then some would say, I need you to trust that, as my intended mom told me, like, I need you to trust that I'm taking care of your baby the same way that you would take care of your own.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, yeah, there there are definitely some pieces and component of that um part that we have to navigate some of those hard conversations.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and to close, um there's so much more to Katie than just being the CEO of Egg Donor and Sarrogate Solutions or being an egg donor or a surrogate herself.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she is one of the biggest advocates I know for just creating families.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um I can you just tell us kind of what what resources you have that if anyone's listening, they could kind of dive in.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um I know you have your like two-minute podcasts and you you're on um some organizations.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_03: Can you just kind of give us the the cliff notes on where they can else they can find you?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um there's a few different ways.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you can find our organization um as a whole and learn about the egg donation and surrogacy process at create a happyfamily.com.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you're interested more about me specifically and my advocacy work and work towards ethical surrogacy and egg donation, that would be kncalae.com.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um we have a podcast, Create a Happy Family, that really dives into people's stories.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, like Whitney, when you were talking about how do women um come to a place where they can understand this, sometimes just hearing stories and how other women have processed through that is really helpful.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're in season four, over half of our episodes, if not more, are all stories of families, egg donors, or surrogates and kind of how they came to that process.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we have our devotional, Called to Carrie, which um is a 14-day devotional for women either considering, yes, right there! Yes.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, women either considering helping in this way, or um it's also it also captures stories of women who have gone through this process itself.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we find that um faith is an important part of my life and actually why I felt called to help in this way, especially surrogacy.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that's what Jesus has called us to do is to help and support other people and um likely to do it in ways that they could never be repaid for that process and the ways and the giftings that they've given.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it is one thing I often say that it's like the best thing our family ever did collectively was help bring um little guy into this world.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: But um, surrogacy can all often be um in conflict with faith.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so we as an agency feel really strongly that people can see that like faith and science can come together.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so Call to Carry was just built out of um my heart to continue that messaging to women of faith that this is a great way to build your family, or it can be the resource that God has placed in your life in order to build your family.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's another fun.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: They can you can request it for free on our website, create a happy family forward slash faith.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we'll send it out, or of course it's on Amazon and that sort of thing.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_03: But um those are a few different ways to find us.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: I loved and I my takeaway from call to carry was like as Christians, we are told to love our neighbors like ourselves.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: And what more Jesus way to do it than to literally like help your neighbor create a family, right?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_03: And and I just love that.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you if you bring it down to basics and basic Christianity, that is love your neighbor like yourself and you help help one another, and that's what everything we're discussing today, like really truly is.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's just it's loving one another to help each other out when somebody's stuff's not working.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I don't think that there is anything more selfless that a woman can do than carry a child for another woman.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like as a woman who struggled with infertility and was able to have a child, like if I wasn't, if I came to that point where I wasn't and someone like Ray, like Ray gave birth to Beckham, like I understand totally how you have that soul connection with her.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because like, to your point, like how you can't repay someone that does that for you, you know?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, you just love them forever.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's you love them forever, and you um like people will often ask me, like, wasn't so hard to give up a baby?
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, and I always say, Well, first of all, not my baby, but second of all, the absolute, I mean, maybe more than my own children, like the absolute best day was watching her hold her baby, and then knowing that that was because of us.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like that is the child that God meant for her to have and for her to hold, but it wasn't possible without the help of someone else.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um no one, she was not going to get that embryo that was him transferred to her anymore.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like she had to have that help, and it's hard to imagine our world without him.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so just knowing like those are the beautiful doors that God opens up for people, but it does require someone saying yes.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that will be my passion for the rest of my life is encouraging people to say yes when that opportunity knocks.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love it.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: Such a great takeaway.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: Katie, thank you so much for coming.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: So great to talk with you.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: You were so fun and you are so knowledgeable.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: If you have been impacted by this episode, there are two things you can do for us.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: First is leave a review on Spotify or Apple Music.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: And second, is to share this with a friend who is struggling.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: This helps us to spread our message of hope for others.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you would like to get in touch with Lindsay or myself, please message us on Instagram at Infertile Diaries Podcast, or you can go to our website at Whitneyheneman.com, and everyone deserves a family grants.com.