Latest / Momentum Sessions / Culture Isn’t What You Say; It’s What You Tolerate | Jay Bilas

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Culture Isn’t What You Say; It’s What You Tolerate | Jay Bilas · Momentum Sessions

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: She said, but y'all need therapy.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what does that mean?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Do you realize how scarred you are by your high school coach?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're joined today by one of the most respected voices in basketball, Jay Billis.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Jay, thanks so much for taking the time to be with us today.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at teams with truly strong cultures versus those that struggle, what do you see as the biggest difference?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: A tough opener.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really think uh basketball has changed all that much over the years I've been in it.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: The style of play and certain things on the floor have changed, but uh the four principles that make a uh a team, a true team, have remained consistent, in my view.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that is uh having everybody involved embrace the notion that they're involved in something bigger than themselves and they're a contributing member to a team.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember Larry Brown saying this decades ago: relatively few players have been a member of a team.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: They've been on a team, but they haven't been a member of a team.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: That was a pretty clear distinction to me of sort of this we first mentality that's required.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also the idea of uh roles, that everybody within any organization has a role.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it took me a while to figure out as a player that your role doesn't define who you are as a player.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Your role is what your team's asking you to do to win right now, but your role could change at any moment.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so all those things combined, your culture is just the atmosphere and uh and what you what you tolerate.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I remember years ago, I'd spent some time with Wisconsin because I was fascinated by the fact that they rarely turned the ball over.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: They did such a good job of taking care of the ball.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh in watching them practice, I didn't really see them doing any drill work or work on ball security that I didn't see in the practices I participated in as a player.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I brought it up to Bo Ryan at the time, and he said something really profound.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: He said, you know, in coaching, it's not what you say, it's what you accept.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't accept turnovers.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh North Carolina doesn't do rebounding drills, and they're one of the best offensive rebounding teams in the country.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: They don't do a single rebounding drill, they just emphasize it within everything they do.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so you are what you emphasize, both on the floor and off the floor.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And going back to what Bo Ryan said, you know, when he said that, I thought about myself, frankly, as a parent.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think as a parent, you say a lot of things, but what do you accept?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And same thing as a coach or administrator, we're all good at saying stuff, but but what do we accept?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And do, you know, do the people within the organization understand that when you say something, um and uh you mean it, you know.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I I was why I I was at a game recently where a coach was telling the team, his team, um, we're just going with the hardest playing guys.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, and you're you're like, don't say that if you don't mean it, because there are a bunch of guys that are playing hard on your bench and you want to win this game, and you're gonna play, you're gonna play your best players.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if if you really mean it, great.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: But when you say stuff like that, you don't you don't follow up on it, the players know.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then the guys that are playing their butts off are going, what am I doing this for?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: If if you tell me this is gonna get me somewhere and it doesn't, uh you kind of lose credibility there.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I apologize for the uh the tough opener.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was a tough one.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't want to.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like hoping from where you where you're from, what's your favorite thing to eat?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I get what culture.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Favorite colors, yeah.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: I threw a tough one at you.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: But speaking of toughness, I I understand that toughness really is the foundation of leadership and culture, kind of in some of your philosophy.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Looking through your book, Toughness, we're a little bit beyond 10 years of its uh first release.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: You wrote that kind of real toughness isn't necessarily physical, it's more of a mental and emotional discipline.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think that shows up, though, in a really strong culture?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: To me, the first thing in being a tough person or a tough player is how strictly do you adhere to your priorities?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I remember Jeff Van Gandhi saying this years ago, and I think he uh got it from Pat Riley.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, your decisions reveal your priorities.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if you say your priorities as a player, you say your priorities are my priorities are basketball, uh, academics, and and my family.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then you got a game on Saturday and you go out on Friday night.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, your decision revealed that your priorities weren't basketball and academics and all that stuff.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, you wanted to go out and you compromised your ability to be at your best on Saturday, uh, you know, during your game.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, all those things are are important.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: So what your priorities and values are, that's number one.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: My wife is probably five foot five, and uh, and she's not a big, strong physical person, but she's the toughest person I've ever been around because her priorities are um are concrete.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she knows what's important to her, and she's gonna stick to those priorities.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and to me, that's that's the number one thing.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is that sort of the the first step when you're building a culture or sort of creating what you want to accept is starting to define what those key values are and what they maybe are truly gonna look like in in real life?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean, I think it goes way beyond, you know, there's so much uh that goes into to coaching.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have a tremendous amount of respect for coaches because it's I I think it's an honorable profession.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I look back on my own life and and uh uh the most influential people uh upon me in my life have been my coaches and teachers.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: When you're sitting there thinking about your team, is it is it just gonna be how we're gonna play?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what do we do?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when we're up three, you know, with under 10 seconds, do we foul?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not it's not that.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's the the values that the program's based on.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what do you want your value system to be every day?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I remember Steve Kerr talking about that when he took over the Warriors, that you know, and thinking about style play, all these different things.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he had um met with Pete Carroll um and and sort of recalibrated exactly what he wanted to do and how he wanted to base everything.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it it it's way before whether high school, college, pro, whatever.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when I think of my coaches, uh, I don't often think about their X and O ability.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's not what uh comes to mind.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: You you think about sort of how they made you feel about what you were doing and sort of those lessons that were instilled.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And those type of values win more games than out-of-bounds plays win.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you've shared that your high school basketball days under one of the coaches was sort of a negative um experience with mostly all high school coaches on this call and watching later.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Can you walk us through a little bit of that as a cautionary tale and then maybe what we can and learn from that experience?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd I'd I'd be be pleased to do that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: When I speak at clinics, one of the things that I bring up is the idea that I'd like you to think about, start at the end and think about how you want your players and the people under your charge uh to regard you later on.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And not just now, but but later on.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: I played on a great high school team.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: We had a number of guys that uh we all grew up together, played basketball together, fourth grade, all the way through high school.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: We had a number of guys that played in college and beyond.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a great experience with my teammates, but it wasn't a great experience with my high school coach.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a there were a number of reasons why, and I uh it's not productive to get into all that stuff, but this was probably 10 plus years ago.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he's since passed away, but we had kind of a high school team reunion.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of our wives came.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I was driving driving my wife back after the the evening back to where we were staying in Southern California, yeah, I just said thank you to her for sitting through all that crap, you know, the idea that you had to listen to a bunch of old men talk about how great they were when they were 17 years old.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and she said, No, it was really fun.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and I said, What did you, you know, what did you take from it?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: What did you notice?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Well, I thought I was really impressed with how close you guys still are.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: But she said, But y'all need therapy.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what does that mean?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Do you realize how scarred you are by your high school coach?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, I said, no.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, did it?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she asked me, Did any of you think to invite him to this?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was still living at the time, and not one of us did.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it really kind of knocked me back a little bit, just the idea that, you know, a number of us had had experiences uh in basketball that were really cool after high school.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, playing in college, I played in the Final Four, I was an assistant at Duke, coached in three Final Fours and national championship games, and then now broadcasting at all these Final Fours and big games.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Never once have I seen my high school coach since I played for him.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Not once.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was not out of spite or anything like that, it just wasn't that kind of relationship.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you start to think about what a what a missed opportunity.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Think what we missed out on of not having you know that kind of positive relationship.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then look what he missed out on.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's not to cast aspersions on anyone.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what happened happened.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: But uh what I really thought about was the the guys like me that were lucky enough to play beyond high school and have other experiences in the game, we were the lucky ones.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: There were a number of my teammates that that their high school basketball experience was their last time playing on a an organized team, and that's what they were left with.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's a miss, and it's a profound miss.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I asked people to think about that.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not that then I'm saying that hey, nobody's doing it the right way.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the point.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: But your your players, by and large, aren't gonna sit around later in life talking about boy, you know, coach so-and-so just wasn't great out of timeouts, or we really didn't have a good zone attack.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's not what that's not the standard you're gonna be held to.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: So many people like to say in the game, like to say, well, only 5% of players are ever going to play beyond high school.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if we really believe that, that means that 95%, you're gonna be the last one that coaches in an organized team, 95% of those players.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And doesn't that create an obligation to make that a positive experience?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't mean you can't hold players accountable and have high standards.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what that means.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: But you can you can do all those things and make it a really positive experience for everyone, including yourself.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and I can't imagine that's what that's not one of the values that that we think this is all this is what it's all about.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it's easy to say, well, that's what high school basketball is all about, or this is what sports is all about.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: People say that a lot.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: But to me, if if you're gonna apply that that phrase to anything in in sports and coaching, it's about making it a positive experience for your players and those in your charge.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So start with the outcome or the final thing that you want to have.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you also mentioned, I think, a really powerful thing about how you want your players to feel um your leadership style.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: How do you, yeah, the that feeling part?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I guess how does that really play out in real life if a coach wants um that part to be better amplified or thought through in their programming?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would think about it this way that if you think about your experience, whether as a whatever it would be, like a player or a student and your interactions with coaches, teachers, mentors, those in leadership positions over you.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um the best ones are those that you you feel they believe in you.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you they have your best interests at heart.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that doesn't mean that you can't tell someone, hey, I believe in you, but you're coming off the bench and you're going to be the best six man or whatever it is.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean that all of this is seashells and balloons and there can't be corrections and demanding more out of somebody and thinking they have more.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: But but oftentimes conveying that you believe in someone is is, hey, I know you have more in you.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that kind of thing.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Mike Braid, who I worked with at Duke and uh has been a great mentor to me, says all the time that one of your primary functions as a coach is to be a confidence giver.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And uh both in in your team and individual players, both on and off the floor.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those are really important.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I tend to think that they're as important.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, all of us go to clinics and study the game and you know, all the trends in the game and what works, you know, how do you put two on the ball in these situations?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: How do you rotate and all that stuff?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's all really important, but those aren't those aren't the ultimate difference makers in a team.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's not that's not what makes a team close and uh connected and and you connected your players, and vice versa.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's always a positive thing to reinforce sort of why the why of things.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like we'll we'll we'll tell players, you know, to help them understand the why of what you're asking them to do.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's always important to reevaluate and to reinforce the why of of what you're doing.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh uh because self-awareness, we're asking players to be self-aware all the time.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's incumbent.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I try to be self-aware as to my performance and uh my interactions with people and make sure I'm constantly evaluating am I doing this at the the right way and the right level, all that stuff.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think those things are important.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying coaches aren't doing that.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh of course they are, but uh, but it's always good to be reminded of that and to emphasize it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then accountability is a big topic that comes up in our group.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Both uh Paul and Eric, I've seen, have put some questions in around that theme.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel like high school coaches can maybe create a culture where accountability feels empowering rather than uh punitive?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: It has to do with the definition of accountability.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So in in our culture, today's culture, uh, I believe accountability, more often than not, is taken by those in your charge as blame.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So oftentimes it's, well, somebody has to be held accountable for this, meaning they got to be fired or they have to be sanctioned or something comes with that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is part of that, but true accountability is everybody being held to the standard that we all agree is what we want to meet individually and collectively.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if it's being on time or uh playing hard in drills or whatever it is, Coach Cade did this where he would ask the team to come up with what are our standards.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it'd be one thing if the coach came in and said, here are our standards, um uh and and do it by edict.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the players are gonna are gonna strive to do it, I think.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: But when you have players that that that all get together and they talk about what do we what do we want our standards to be, then you can really have true accountability because you can point to this, like you guys came up with these standards, and I agreed with them.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And all you guys signed this thing, and we're not doing it.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that's really I think that's really powerful, and it it's not something that has to be screened at someone.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Danny Ferry's a good friend of mine and uh terrific um you know GM in the NBA and still works for the San Antonio Spurs.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: He he used to do player development stuff for the Spurs, and one of the things he would do is bring players in and talk about what kind of player do you want to be?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they would, you know, the player would say, Here, here are the here's what I want to do.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so you go through this this stuff and they would put together a document of what the player wants to to strive to achieve, areas of of improvement, all these different things.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the player would sign it, date it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then later on you can bring that out and said, Look, you said you want to do this, and what I'm seeing is you're not doing it, and you can really drill down on why it can be a motivating thing and an inspirational thing.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: That can be a force multiplier uh for your team.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's got a question for Jay, maybe we can have one or two here in just a second.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to raise your virtual hand?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: A question in the community that already came through is from Coach Eric Holterstrom, a girls' basketball coach in Minnesota.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is kind of similar theme to everything that we've chatted about, but how can coaches get full by uh full program buy-in to standards when we present them clearly, but we don't always see everyone fully committed?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, and this is just a personal thing with me, I don't I don't particularly care for the term buy-in.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because what you have is not for sale, it's earned.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, on any team, playing time is earned.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think, you know, by how you operate day to day, you know, if you say, and again, it's it's it's not what you say, it's what you accept.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: But if you tell your team that uh how they perform in practice is gonna determine how many minutes they play, well then you should stick with that because that's your credibility is on the line with everything you say, in my view.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and look, I I don't know that everyone here will agree with this, but but I would hope this would resonate.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I remember virtually everything my coaches said to me, positive or negative.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I remember it all because my coaches held uh authority over the thing that was most important in my life, and that was basketball.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not to say I didn't do my homework, I was a good student, I did all my stuff, but the most important thing to me was basketball.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I remember every I'm I remember how they made me feel and how corrections were made, uh, when they lifted me up.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like you remember all that stuff.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So your words carry a lot of a lot of weight.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not to say that you know you're not gonna we're not gonna make mistakes and how we talk to a player or something we convey, of course.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: That that of course, but being mindful of that, that your words have a great effect on your players, and then your actions as well.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll give you an example.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like in my view, if I could if I could adopt a demeanor of a coach in college basketball right now, I mean the pros are on a different level with this, but I I would want TJ Otzelberger of Iowa State, just a fantastic practice coach, tactician, game coach, you name it.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: His demeanor in a game is unbelievable.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like he he he tells his players, like, move on to the next play, don't get caught up in officials' calls, there's nothing you can do about it.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he doesn't get caught up in it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like you never see him going after an official, ever.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it's not to say he won't have a quiet interaction with an official to get his point across, but if he's asking his players to remain in control and disciplined and discipline their emotions during the course of a game, he's gonna be the example of it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's magnificent.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And do I think that has a really positive effect on how his team processes difficult situations in a game?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely do.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: So buy in with what your standards are, maybe team involvement and standards.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, same thing with picking a captain.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: You could pick a captain of your team, and you may have an idea of who you think it should be.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, oftentimes when the team picks the captain, what players say to one another is every bit as important as what a coach says.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's why so many coaches say, you know, a player-led team is better than a coach-led team, stuff like that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but any way you can get your teams thinking like you think and to adopt your view of things, like your word is, you know, your decisions are going to be the law.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's what's behind those decisions that are gonna get people to really um, you know, buy in or really be um inspired by it and really uh uh accept it and embrace it and have that be one of the one of their values.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when it's ingrained in them, then it's it's not a worry, and you can start that then your X's and O's and all that stuff.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to worry about the foundational stuff.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's all foundational stuff and and it needs to be tended to all the time.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that um modeling that coach that you mentioned.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's go over to Andy.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Andy, what's your question for Jay?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let me bring in here.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, thanks for being here so much, Jay.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: What a what a treat for all of us.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my question is and it plays on a lot of what you've said, and and maybe specifically the 95% of our student athletes.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: This will be their last experience.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I spend a lot of time and thought around what are the life lessons and the character development opportunities that are being presented with through sport.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't ever recall in my playing days a coach kind of connecting the dots of you know you learned a lot about the sport.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: And as a result, I think we all maybe assume that the life lessons kind of just magically kind of enter the heads of our players.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious if you have thoughts about this or have examples of being intentional about connecting those dots for players and helping them to understand that, you know, you did X, Y, or Z.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's going to play off, pay off for you 40 years from now when you're walking into a boardroom or whatever the example might be.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just curious if you have example or thoughts on the level of intentionality we might use to help our players become better people because sports just provides such an amazing canvas for so many of those skills that you want to elicit for them.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a not only a great question, but great points made within that.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And what I would say you go back to the the thing of what you emphasize.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go to say uh a North Carolina practice, every one of their practices is start is started with a thought for the day.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they have a thought for the day.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: It may be a quote, it may be, it may be something that is an off-the-floor thing that translates to on the floor, how the team relates to each other, things like that.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: The other part of it is what John Wooden used to say is praise the actions you want repeated.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: So body language.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you see that a player, you know, or if your thing is first to the floor, if you've got a player that may not be your best player, but makes makes one winning play when he's in there.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: And those are really powerful things for you to emphasize and show.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can scream something at a player and lift them up, like scream something, and you can whisper something that'll crush them and they'll never forget.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about volume, it's about content.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And Kevin Eastman, who's one of the great, when I think one of the great teachers of the game I've ever been around, would always emphasize remember to catch your players doing it right.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we catch them doing it wrong all the time.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Remember to catch them doing it right.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because though those positive reinforcements are really uplifting.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, so going back to the think thought of the day or something like that, or if you have a situation where whether it's in practice or game, uh how a player, how the bench reacted in a timeout, body language stuff that may be positive, you know, you don't always point out when it's negative, but you point it out when it's positive.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: My sense is and my belief is you're gonna have more players going, well, I want to be that guy.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get pointed out that way.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want my coach to think of me this way.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that's that's a big part of this.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else, Sandy?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, super helpful.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate that.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Andy, I didn't let you in uh introduce yourself.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: What school are you with in what state?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just real quick.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm in Cherry Creek High School in Denver, Colorado, just outside of Denver.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: I know exactly where that is.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Cherry Creek every summer.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Andy.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so Jay, as we start to wrap up here, I know um you've got a coaching academy and a skills camp.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit about the inspiration behind starting that?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if someone on this call would want to get involved, is there a process?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not right now, because uh uh we made the decision.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll tell you how it started, and then I'll tell you about the decision.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I was coaching my uh I got involved in coaching my son's AEU team when he was in high school, and my wife uh uh not only encouraged me to do it, she demanded I do it because she didn't really care for how the players were being treated.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I uh I started coaching a an AAU team, and it was a really fun experience.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So my son was on it.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: We had Daniel Jones, who's now with the Indianapolis Colts, their quarterback, and Brant Williams, who's uh with the Charlotte Horse now in the NBA.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: They were all on the team.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I coached the team with a friend of mine named John Seerby, who was an assistant at Auburn under Jeff Lebo and uh coached at all levels and was an athletic director in college.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we came up, we decided how we wanted to do it and uh how we were gonna go about it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we were at an AEU uh tournament one time, and honestly, I was horrified by the scene we were in.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was just sitting on the bench kind of looking around, going, This, I don't like this.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And he started laughing at me.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, He goes, When you scout players, you've been in the big gym watching the top 100 guys.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, This is the way the rest of the world lives.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and he said something really profound to me.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: He said, We can't fix this.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't have the wherewithal to fix this whole thing.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: But he goes, if you want to, we can make this better in our own backyard.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so we started a basketball camp about 15 years ago.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was devoted to skill work and you know that we we put them on teams and played and had officials and all that stuff.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we did, we did all those things.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it was it was values-based and you know, how the players acted on and off the floor, how they acted in the dining hall.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Those were things we really emphasized, and we never had a problem in all those years.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but through that, we started a coach's development program where we brought in young coaches from around the country that might have been coaching AAU ball high school.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they might have been a student manager at a Division I school they wanted to get into coaching.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we could get them along with our staff, which were all uh Division II, Division III head coaches, and then former Division I head coaches were our main staff.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then we put these younger development coaches on staff with them.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we had we had 60, 60-some coaches run around this camp.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we had eyes on the players all the time, which was great.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and then we started a coaches leadership program for Division I assistants that aspired to be head coaches that we had identified and brought them in for training and uh, you know, essentially head coach training and leadership training.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it turned it morphed into a lot of different things and it's been a wonderful experience.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: But we we decided at the end of last year, a lot of our staff was aging.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and uh when uh when our camp director decided he was gonna retire, I told him when we started 15 years ago the second you retire is the second we throw in the towel on this, um, because I don't I I'm not gonna just start this over.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so we decided to pull the plug on the camp, which is a difficult decision, but it had to be made.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: But we're gonna, I think we're gonna continue with the leadership program.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Our thought was was the same thought that I would encourage all of us on this call to have, and that is we can complain, and we're all really and myself included, we're all really good at complaining.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: We can complain about the overall that we don't like, but uh the best thing we can do is is uh do it the right way in our own backyard.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that pebble in the water has ripples, and each one of your players, and I really mean this, each one of your players is gonna go on uh in whatever endeavor, and a number of them are gonna stay in the sports sports field.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're gonna be a coach.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you want to influence them as to how they're gonna behave and how they're gonna act in their next act?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Last question, Jay.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: High school coaches on this call, they're they're juggling a lot.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: They got teaching and family and coaching.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: You've balanced a lot of roles throughout your life.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any kind of just best advice on leading well, staying sharp, and kind of avoiding the burnout that sometimes happens with coaches when you're wearing all these hats?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: First, I would say uh show yourself some grace that nobody's expecting you to be perfect.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and so just as you would with a player, if you feel like you felt short, there's nothing wrong with admitting that to the team and say, look, I should have done a better job here, and I want to let you know that.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, things like that.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: That happens.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that actually adds to your credibility rather than uh detracts from it.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing I would say that I learned, and it's a different sphere, but when I first started out in broadcasting, I travel a ton.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, every game I have is uh an away game.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have any home games, so I travel a lot.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And when you've got a younger family, that can be taxing.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when my my kids were were young, um, I was reluctant to bring them on the road with me because I didn't want them, I didn't want, I didn't want to be distracted.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want them to distract members of our crew and things like that because we're working and and we like to think our work is really important.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and it is, everybody's work is important.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I started bringing them when they became you know 11, 12 years old.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: I started bringing them more often.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they had a great time, and I had a great time, and our crew had a great time with them.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: They were so good with with my kids, and I was like, why did I deprive myself of that for so long?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: In your job, your kids, you know, that not a lot of people have jobs where their kids think it's cool, and what you do, your kids think is cool, and the players are gonna benefit from your family being around, they will benefit from that, you know, see what good relationships are like and what what's truly important, and that's a modeling behavior as well.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say, you know, balancing all these things that are very difficult to balance, um, having your family around is important.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then one other thing, and Mike Bray is the best at this that I've seen.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: You have a game, you lose.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's easy to let that affect your demeanor.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then you go home and you're not you're not the person you want to be at home.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you win, and you know, you're the happiest guy, happiest person on the planet, and everybody let you don't want your family teetering, going, God, I hope we win so mom and dad are happy when they get home.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want that.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there there have been times where uh, you know, I've been around coaches on the college level, they'll have friends or family that are visiting them, they lose a game, and then it's not a great experience for those that are visiting.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't do it, they don't deserve that.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're asking your players move on to the next play, you got to be able to do it too.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're all guilty of it.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, but I think being intentional about that too, like don't take a loss out on others.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that big of a deal.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: You that that's one thing that that I think uh regret is a really powerful thing, and that's one thing that I think everyone in that position would regret.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Great advice all around.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Jay, thank you so much for your time.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're busy, especially this time of year, but really appreciate your time and your perspective.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and for all of you that are on this call that are uh on the front lines every day, you know, teaching this game and uh mentoring and coaching young people, thank you.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's and I I meant that when I said it.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have ultimate respect for coaches.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's such a noble profession.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I know that you all get a lot out of it, but there's a lot that comes with it that isn't the most positive.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh and people don't understand it.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and but that's okay.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I go out to eat a lot, and I've never been a chef, and I have opinions on the food, and I wouldn't take kindly if somebody came out and said, You've never been a chef, shut up and eat it.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I wouldn't care for that.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's the same thing with with any profession, coaches, broadcasters, whatever.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: People are gonna have opinions.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I like to try to stay above that, and I think uh I think you guys all do a great job of that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And Kevin says, Thank you so much, greatly appreciate it.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Eric, thank you very much.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the opportunity to listen and learn.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jay, you're making a huge impact just in this last 30 minutes.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, it's Matt.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: This conversation that you just heard originally happened inside of Momentum Sessions, a free community for coaches who take culture seriously.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to hear the full conversation, join future calls, ask questions live, and connect with other coaches working on culture and leadership, visit MomentumTeams.com slash sessions.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you there.