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Strategies for leading hybrid teams and addressing loneliness with Leigh Wetland · Authentic Living

• 0:02
  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
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  Thanks for tuning in again today with Authentic Living with Roxanne.
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  So today, I have a special guest, Doctor, Lee wetland, and she brings expertise at a high
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  level and share background.
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  She's a neuro clinical psychologist, and she's worked over 20 years in the Phyllis clinician.
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  And she's in Grand Rapids, Michigan where she has a private practice, but she has, worked
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  consulting a senior clinical director for a major health firm tell us where she's been
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  involved in product development and strategy.
• 0:37
  So Lee, thanks so much for, joining us today.
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  Thanks for having me.
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  Thanks.
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  I'm I'm happy to be here excited to have the conversation.
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  So now Lee has done lots of things in the field, but the conversation I thought would be
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  most helpful was zoning in on an expertise that she has, which is, I think, is a very, very
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  topically relevant which is hybrid work teams, but also the impact of, the positives.
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  Obviously, we all Remember, all those positives to being at home, but also the elements of
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  loneliness that comes along with hybrid teams.
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  So Lee, tell us kind of, obviously, I'm gonna assume that you probably would do some work
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  with this before, but where did you kind of start working with the element of hybrid teams
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  and loneliness.
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  Yeah.
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  I think certainly loneliness is not new to the field of psychology.
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  We talk a out isolated populations, the elderly, people who are cut off from maybe
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  their primary support system.
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  So loneliness isn't a new topic.
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  I think it has come up in the workplace in an interesting way because as you mentioned,
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  Roxanne, we were all I think some of us at least were sort of celebrating the idea of
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  remote work being able to work from anywhere.
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  I can be in my home.
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  I don't have to commute.
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  I don't have to pay for an expensive office.
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  So all of these per that came forward in the beginning, I guess, if there was silver lining
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  to to COVID, this fast tracked a lot of these hybrid work environments or remote work
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  environments.
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  But I think what we're starting to see for some folks that we sent and interestingly in the
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  under forty age group in particular is this element of loneliness that we're starting to
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  see in the remote work environment.
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  And and I think we may be underestimated a little bit the the water cooler conversations
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  and the casual chats in the hallway and how imperative those things were for connecting
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  people in the work environment.
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  I certainly can remember work environments I had pre COVID where it was my it was my
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  colleagues that I was excited to see, and we would laugh in the hallway.
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  We would have these jokes And now you have a Zoom meeting set up at 11 o'clock and you log
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  in at 11 o'clock and you get right down to business.
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  So that casual chatting.
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  Let me learn about your life.
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  I I can't even see if, you know, now in your office, if you have roses and they're your
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  favorite flowers or you have family members that you have photos on your desk so I can get
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  to know you a little bit.
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  So it becomes very all business all the time, which we might be concerned about as or
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  employers might be concerned about because they care about their employees, but it's also
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  costly.
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  People are more likely to be burnt out, more likely to leave, not as productive, not as
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  enthusiastic, because because they're feeling the elements of that that loneliness that are,
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  impacting their their work environment.
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  It's
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  It's interesting, right, because we were so gung ho.
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  Right?
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  Like, at first, it was like the scariness of what was happening in the world, but then the
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  positives were like, you know, and I think at my time, Incorporately, where, you know,
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  sometimes my commute could be an hour a half a day.
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  One way And, you know, by the time you tapped on to that in the stage that I was at, I had a
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  young child.
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  I mean, my days were could be as long as sometimes 12, 14 hours long.
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  So I at that time, I could think of the parents that were in that stage and people that were
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  still commuting and what the benefits all that chopped off time and, you know, what what they
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  could do at that time.
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  Right?
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  Yes.
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  Absolutely.
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  Not to mention the shoe wear.
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  You say on being able to work at home and wearing your slippers.
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  So those pieces as well as.
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  That that in your pajamas and bottoms and a really nice top.
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  Right?
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  Absolutely.
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  So let's let's talk about what tell us a bit about the element of loneliness.
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  Like you said, it's been around for a while and How does it affect?
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  I mean, you know, when we are, obviously, we're mammals and we're meant to connect, and we
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  don't even think of some of the things that we actually do to connect But when you think of
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  loneliness and kind of what the research, shows it, what kind of things, how does will this
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  nest impact us just overall as human beings, but also at work.
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  Yeah.
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  It, you know, it has impact from our connectedness to work, as mentioned, you know,
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  50% of people or more in some surveys will say the reason they stay at work is because of
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  their colleagues.
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  So if you are not feeling connected, there's attrition rates for that.
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  How loneliness impacts the individual?
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  We have seen I'm a neuropsychologist by trade as you mentioned.
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  So I'm all about the brain.
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  And we see parts of the brain that affect cognitive abilities, problem solving, the
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  reward centers.
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  A lot of these things change when people experience chronic loneliness.
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  The other thing is it and I talk about life in an in a way of inertia, meaning If I'm out
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  running errands or I'm coming home from work, I might be more inclined to stay out running
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  errands or be out in public.
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  But if I'm at home working all of the time, that inertia might work against me and that I
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  might just stay seated where I am.
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  So I might not only be cut off from my colleagues at work, but I might be cutting
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  myself off from colleagues or or, neighbors or friends that would normally be in my social
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  environment.
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  So it becomes more and more isolating.
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  And then as we become more lonely and potentially leading to other mental health
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  symptoms that are more significant, like depression, anxiety, that type of thing, that
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  obviously has larger impact on my functioning in in the grand scheme of things.
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  If I'm at home and I'm feeling lonely and that leading me to feel more symptoms of depression.
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  Maybe I'm not getting up as much and getting around and moving.
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  I I think about and you can think about just the simple act of getting ready to go to work
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  requires you to take a shower, hopefully change clothes, getting your car, which gives you a
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  little bit of sun exposure.
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  You drive to your work.
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  You climb the stairs or take the elevator to get into your office So all of those can
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  impact.
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  Whereas if we roll out of bed, even though we jokingly said, you don't have to wear, you
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  know, nice clothes on the bottom half of your body, all of those pieces can start to add up.
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  You're not getting outside.
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  You know, hopefully we're still showering, but all the little pieces that go into a typical
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  day, we don't have access to when we're working remotely.
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  That can cumulatively lead to this this loneliness impact and then potentially have
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  bigger consequences with depression, anxiety.
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  And then if we're an employer and we're watching our workforce, become less motivated,
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  less excited, less connected.
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  Maybe they're, you know, they're more inclined to look elsewhere for other employment because
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  they're just tired.
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  Of being on their own and not having that downtime or that break.
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  So
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  yeah.
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  It was interesting because I know I was reading or listening to a podcast about they talked
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  about some basic things like if you think about it, we're moving we were moving last separate
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  home.
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  Right?
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  Like, so like that act of, you know, they talk a little bit about the importance of vitamin d,
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  right, like the first kind of of being able to, I guess, it's something with proprioception,
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  which is perception out of your environment, and you'd be able to tell me as a, you know,
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  from your neuroscience perspective, they talked a little bit about movement.
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  And if you think about it, right, like you, you know, you you have to get into your car.
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  You have to commute.
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  Then you have to pro potentially walk when, you know, to to park your car.
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  Then you have to, you know, get your office and then probably when you're at, you know, leaving
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  the environment to maybe have coffee or or have lunchroom, again, you're moving.
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  And I think of myself, Lydia and I have basically worked at home, predominantly on SM
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  traveling to speak or train.
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  And I literally, and I am completely an extrovert and I can see the impact of what has
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  impacted my behavior where I let you will say, oh, geez, I haven't left the house in 2 days.
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  Yeah.
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  Never would have bid me before and I now have to make a concerted effort to say, no, I'm
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  joining that yoga class because I know it's gonna make me leave the office at 5 being the
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  house at 5:30 to be able to get out, but it became a normative thing, even for myself.
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  Absolutely.
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  And I think you bring up a really good point in the in that we think sometimes we're connecting
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  via, you know, the tele meetings and that that type of thing.
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  And, of course, there is a connection.
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  Definitely cameras on are better than cameras off in terms of feeling connected to to the
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  people you're in conversation with.
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  But when we think about the difference between that and in person or even having external
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  social impacts.
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  So I'm certainly not suggesting everybody should go back to the office.
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  That's certainly, you know, there are a lot of reasons to not do that and a lot of reasons to
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  do that, but to your point, then going after work to the hot yoga class or the coffee with a
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  friend or the in person, whatever, because what we get from being with people, the eye contact,
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  the the physical touch, those things have significant impact on our brains.
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  There's been there's research from here to the moon regarding the impact of physical touch or
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  the person to person connection.
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  And we can get closer to that.
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  So again, if we're if we're on the, you know, for texting, that's probably the least
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  connected.
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  If we're on the telephone, we're getting the voice.
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  If we're doing the the meeting, the the tele meeting better, cameras on better, in person
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  better.
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  So each place, we're getting a little closer to that connected feeling and that the the
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  avoidance of or the minimization of the loneliness, I think one of the interesting
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  pieces that has come out of this, because there was a little bit of a surprise, I think, in
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  some of the initial search that younger employees in particular tend to be impacted by
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  this loneliness.
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  They're three times more likely than they're over fifty year old co cohort to feel those
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  loneliness pieces.
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  And when we think about how do 20 somethings connect and sometimes 30 somethings connect,
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  texting, Snapchatting, Instagram, chatting, whatever, and that feels connected, but it's
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  not the same kind of as meeting up and having coffee or playing disc golf or whatever you do,
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  hot yoga, whatever you do, and you're outside time.
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  Absolutely.
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  So so from a from a generational perspective, I would say, you know, most of us, like, I mean,
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  when I was in corporate, it mostly I was in the office until I went.
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  I went virtual quite a long time ago.
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  Mhmm.
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  But I think, you know, it's kinda like the element to hear the stories where you pair
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  keeps you outside to play.
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  Right?
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  You know, and they said, don't come back with you.
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  You can just snack or it's lunchtime or whatever.
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  Like, literally, we I mean, I know I'm I'm in my fifties that that was normative and then my
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  siblings and I would, you know, it would be there was 6 of us who, you know, would be major
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  scraps, and we'd have to figure out how to problem solve because if we went inside, we're
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  probably gonna get in trouble anyway.
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  So there's so many things that we were doing naturally now that I realized, like, wow, that
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  was just learning how to connect, how to problem solve, how to have conflict, who is
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  gonna be the top of quicker team and who was gonna be the end.
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  All those things were happening.
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  But in the younger generation, the Zed and things like that.
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  They haven't they've been brought up at a different point where digital connection is the
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  norm.
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  And we think about how much COVID impacted that too.
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  So we have I mean, I think all of us had to get a little more savvy with how do we connect via
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  these various platforms, but the younger generation, I think, already having taken on
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  that way of communicating it became even more so.
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  So this idea that I am connected to my friends via chat, Snapchat, whatever, it's not the same
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  quality, whereas I feel like that has been a bit of a protective factor for people over 50
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  as we have always maybe felt more familiar with the idea of getting kicked out to go play for
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  the day and having that in person conversation.
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  So maybe we crave that a little bit more or that's her comfort zone.
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  Whereas if I'm a 2030 something year old and I'm used to the the messaging in that way of
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  communicating, I might then perpetuate that not understanding, like, wait a minute.
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  There's something qualitatively different about getting together and, like, looking eye to eye
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  at my friend or whatever.
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  And, you know, the other element I think of Lee is, like, you feel rejuvenated I and I've
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  experienced this.
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  Like, I could be tired, right, at the end of my day.
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  A lot of times, I'm on screens, and I was on screens.
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  And then I'd leave the house and I would go do something strenuous like, you know, be it a
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  hike or a hot yoga or something like that, and I'm completely, there's a bump in my energy.
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  And if I stayed home and I I remember those days, I was like, oh, I'm so tired.
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  You know, I'm dragging.
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  All I wanna do is be able to make dinner and maybe just sit.
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  I actually kept feeling tired in those days compared to
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  the things
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  that I actually went out went out and expanded energy.
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  I you are a 100% right, and I hear this in my practice quite frequently.
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  And I think we've all felt that drained is the word I hear most of the time.
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  I'm drained at the end of the day from having you know, meeting after meeting or or sitting
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  all day.
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  And so we think, okay, I'm not motivated to go out and exercise or go for a walk or meet with
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  a friend but oftentimes, and I would say the majority of the times, if not all of the time,
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  I dare say, if we actually discipline ourselves to do that, we will feel better afterwards.
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  So sometimes it is that, like, idea that after I get out, how am I going feel versus if I sit
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  in just vegile in front of the TV, how am I going to feel that can kind of serve as an
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  impetus to say, okay.
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  I don't feel like getting up and going for a walk or going how young and going for a class,
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  but it doesn't matter.
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  It's discipline versus that that motivation piece.
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  So let's let's kind of, look at, you know, teams.
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  Like you said, the hybrid teams and and and leaders.
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  Right?
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  Like, so what are some of the things, the fundamental things that you what have we
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  learned about leading with hybrid teams.
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  I know we we kinda just dove into the end of the, you know, deep end with the pool hoping we
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  could all swim.
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  And there was a lot of you know, piecemealing things together, but what what are some of the
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  things that we've learned about hybrid teams and effective and maybe ineffective ways of
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  leading?
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I think that the good news in understanding that this loneliness is an is a factor and it's
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  important and it's something we want to and need to address.
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  Is that there are some really fairly simple solutions to recreating those elements of the
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  in person workplace that are important So like I mentioned earlier, and it sort of ingests,
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  but it's true.
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  You think about going to someone's office and you see, oh, they've got a picture of their
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  grandchild on the desk or they have pink all over the place and you you you make the mental
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  note.
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  Oh, they have a grandchild and and they like the color pink.
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  And so later on, I can ask you about, oh, I see you had this lovely picture on your desk and
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  tell me a little bit about that or if, you know, I I start to learn about you.
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  We don't have the luxury of that in the remote environment other than the what I can see in
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  the Hollywood squares Yeah.
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  Vision.
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  You know, I can see that you have some good taste and art behind you there, but I wouldn't
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  see much else.
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  So I think part of it can be asking So we can say I I was listening, to a conversation around
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  some things that we can do to mitigate the remote work environment, depersonalizing
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  experience.
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  And one thing could be, you know what?
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  I can, as a leader, use the first 5 minutes or 10 minutes intentionally to connect with my
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  team.
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  I could say, alright.
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  Before we get started on the meeting, I wanna know how everyone's weekend was, or I wanna
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  know if anyone wants to share you know, what their plans are for the summer summer
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  vacations.
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  So we can have those moments of being tuned in and creating that water cooler experience.
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  And and of course, you know, keeping some boundaries around it, but we don't have to get
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  right down to business.
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  We can take the first few minutes.
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  If we are on camera, even sort of as a just an organic experience and we're waiting for other
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  people to log in, we don't all have to tap our fingers or look out the window or try to answer
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  an email, we could say, hey.
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  You know what?
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  How how are things going and check-in and learn about We can also do team building kinds of
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  activities.
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  We think team building is something that's more inclined for that personal in person kind of
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  environment, but there's lots of stuff where you can take a few minutes and learn something
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  about the people that are on your team in a more social casual, you know, playing would I
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  ever or, you know, writing in facts.
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  We did this with one of my teams.
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  We everybody had to write in 3 facts about themselves, and then we would anonymously put
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  the facts on the screen, and we had to guess who was it.
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  And then people had to sort of reveal if it was if it was them and they could tell the story
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  behind it.
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  So those those are some pieces.
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  And then I do think the hybrid piece is interesting.
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  If we can create some external environment get together.
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  So, you know, we used to have the the happy hour or the exercise kind of thing after work,
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  but sometimes we can do.
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  Like, I know when I was at TELUS, they had the TELUS days of giving.
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  And so they encouraged teams to get together outside of the work environment to do
• 18:50
  charitable kinds of things for, you know, whatever their their area of interest was.
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  And and they supported that by giving everybody that day paid off.
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  So you had 1 day a year.
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  You could volunteer for an activity of your choosing hopefully with coworkers and you could
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  dedicate some time to that.
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  I think that support from the work environment to say We want you out there.
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  We want you connected.
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  We want you doing stuff, and and we care about your causes.
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  So so I think that was a really powerful experience and message.
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  For the for the employees as well.
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  And who would think like a happy hour?
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  Right?
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  Like, I mean, and I think that when I was in corporate for 15, 16 years, and you you
• 19:32
  wouldn't get there all the time.
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  Right.
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  But that's when you kinda really got to know people.
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  Right?
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  You already find out and you think, oh, you're, you know, you ski all the time.
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  I'm not I'm from Trinidad, so I don't ski.
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  And And you're like, oh, you know, you know, and did people would tell you about what they
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  did and how they started, or then now they snowboard, or they go to Colorado with their
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  you know, and then you're like, you remember that.
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  And, you know, those simple things, you know, again, naturally we we do those things, but to
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  now then think about it in the hybrid environments, because I think sometimes
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  companies have gone too much the other way to think There's too much cost associated with
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  actual get togethers.
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  Right?
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  And and now I think they're starting to recognize the balance to to incentivize to some
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  degree, whether it's a walking club or, you know, or gym membership where people can kind
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  of go together or like you said, the happy hour where there's a like activity, it may not be
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  have to be, you know, it could be social, but in a different way where people kinda could get
• 20:30
  together for activities that they like together.
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  The impact of that, I think, is definitely, bearing through to keeping people more engaged
• 20:39
  and connected.
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  Absolutely.
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  And and it can be recreated in some ways in the hybrid environment where If people are remote
• 20:46
  and getting together is not realistic, the you can still do the re the the virtual app hour or
• 20:53
  the virtual coffee, the coffee chat.
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  So I know a lot of companies will will do that type of thing where it's okay, Friday at 9,
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  we're gonna do coffee hour.
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  And and the chat is about other things that are not related.
• 21:07
  Sometimes I think workers can be prepared by having some questions in their side pocket.
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  So it's not just, oh, the weather looks good there, the weather looks good there, and we're
• 21:17
  all standing there feeling awkward, they could ask a question.
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  Like, so you know what?
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  Let's talk about what passions we have outside of what we're doing in this particular space.
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  And to your point, that's where you learn that, you know, Joe is a skier and and Jane likes
• 21:32
  their rock climb, and we and we start to learn things about people so that even as we're
• 21:38
  thinking longer term, like, okay.
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  If it's playing a game and there's a reward, I know Jane's a rock climber, maybe the reward or
• 21:46
  the prize gonna be something related to rock climbing because I know that about her.
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  And that speaks to people.
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  Right?
• 21:53
  When I know something personal about you and I've taken the time to make a note of it, and
• 21:57
  some people are better than others.
• 21:59
  Sometimes we gotta write it down because we're not naturally gonna do that, and that's okay.
• 22:03
  But that's meaningful.
• 22:04
  It says you're paying attention to me as a person rather than just kind of business as
• 22:10
  usual.
• 22:11
  And we underestimate the value of that sometimes, but is so important for keeping our
• 22:17
  employees happy, keeping them there, keeping them productive.
• 22:20
  So everybody can win in that situation.
• 22:23
  So what qualities do you think?
• 22:25
  Like, as a leader.
• 22:26
  Right?
• 22:26
  So if a leader's listening and they're thinking, you know, I I've been doing this.
• 22:30
  I I think I'm okay, but I wanna get better at meeting my team where they are.
• 22:37
  Like, at same time, you know, I don't know what the comp you probably know what the the the
• 22:42
  best combination of hybrid kind of, is in person versus online, what kind of things
• 22:49
  should leaders consider about themselves in reference to connecting with these teams, these
• 22:56
  hybrid teams.
• 22:58
  Yeah.
• 22:58
  I think, you know, a lot of it is If we value and understand the importance of that personal
• 23:05
  connection, then we put some of our energy towards that.
• 23:10
  The the thing I haven't mentioned yet that becomes important and is a leadership quality
• 23:14
  component as well is how do you feel rewarded or recognized because recognize recognition is
• 23:22
  another piece of that engagement and that commitment into the team.
• 23:28
  And that is this.
• 23:29
  If you said you're an extrovert.
• 23:31
  So if I said, you know what?
• 23:33
  I wanna recognize Roxanne for something important she did in the team.
• 23:37
  I'm gonna say, hey, everybody.
• 23:39
  I would like to take a moment at the beginning of this meeting to recognize the value Roxanne
• 23:43
  brought to this this project or this experience, and and it has really made a big
• 23:48
  difference.
• 23:49
  You might be like, oh, so that feels so good.
• 23:52
  Whereas somebody who's very shy and and reserved might be horrified by that experience
• 23:59
  if I called them out in front of everyone, but they might if I if I sent them a meaningful
• 24:04
  message or, you know, the a gift card or whatever.
• 24:07
  So learning something about your team members and tuning into that, even if that's not your
• 24:14
  natural direction as a leader, we can these are some of these skills we can fake by again.
• 24:21
  Okay.
• 24:21
  I know this is important.
• 24:22
  So I'm gonna write down, like, Roxanne, is likes to do hot yoga, and she's an extrovert.
• 24:28
  And I'm listening to that so that if I know I need to recognize you for something, or you've
• 24:33
  done something that has stood out, I can go to my handy to handle a list and say, oh, alright.
• 24:38
  I know this about you.
• 24:39
  And, again, the more we're able to say to our team, I'm learning about you as an individual.
• 24:46
  That that that's important.
• 24:48
  So I think that piece of leadership becomes so we value it.
• 24:53
  We know it's important to connect with people personally.
• 24:57
  We take time and resources I know businesses have to run, and that means everyone has to do
• 25:02
  their spreadsheet and their numbers and their, you know, their meetings and their
• 25:06
  presentations.
• 25:07
  But when we understand that there is also value, monetary value, as well as personal
• 25:13
  value to connecting our employees to the company and to their teams.
• 25:17
  That that, I think, can be at at least a passenger on the bus, if not the driver.
• 25:23
  So, Ravi, it's fundamentals about me knowing, like in my new book, I talk about, you know, we
• 25:29
  all have strengths as leaders, but also what are the your blind spots and kind of keep
• 25:34
  getting a snapshot of understanding what am I really, really good at and what am I not so
• 25:38
  good at to be able to accentuate those qualities But inherent in that, I also think
• 25:43
  about, you know, how do I communicate?
• 25:45
  Am I, you know, I'm gonna see some people if they're younger leaders might be bet feel like
• 25:50
  they're better online.
• 25:51
  You know, am I recognizing people?
• 25:54
  Do I know the people on my team?
• 25:56
  And, you know, and then in turn, how do I how do their problems Like, if I'm an introvert or
• 26:01
  an extrovert, like you said, you're gonna take a different approach.
• 26:05
  But as the leader, you're trying to kind of think, okay.
• 26:08
  What what what do I need to learn about myself?
• 26:10
  But, ultimately, if I get to know each one of the people on my team, I'm gonna have to be, I
• 26:15
  think, a little bit more strict subject versus if you were seeing me every single day.
• 26:19
  Would that be fair to say Lee?
• 26:21
  Yep.
• 26:21
  Absolutely.
• 26:22
  I think, you know, you have to be a little more intentional because those casual bump into in
• 26:29
  the hall kind of thing.
• 26:30
  It's not gonna happen.
• 26:31
  I'm not gonna see someone who lives at my the company I worked for was in Toronto.
• 26:35
  I'm not gonna bump into somebody and Grand Rapids Michigan at the grocery store or out and
• 26:39
  about.
• 26:39
  We're not just gonna casually meet up.
• 26:42
  So, you know, and and, you know, not to get into this too much, but some companies as well
• 26:47
  have understood like, okay.
• 26:49
  We we may be met all of the time in person for a while.
• 26:52
  COVID said nothing in person but there is a balance, and I think there is a shift back to
• 26:58
  strategically thinking about the value of when do we pull people together in person and for
• 27:04
  what purpose?
• 27:05
  And how do we make that work and fun and connecting?
• 27:09
  Because there is a balance.
• 27:11
  It is there there's an importance to that.
• 27:13
  So I think absolutely considering that.
• 27:16
  And I think that's where, you know, each company has its own reality.
• 27:21
  We can't fly everyone in from everywhere across the entire world for a team building event in
• 27:26
  Grand Rapids, Michigan, perhaps, but Can we try to connect people in certain ways?
• 27:32
  Can companies look and say, alright.
• 27:33
  What is my reality?
• 27:34
  And where can I maybe push or move a little bit understanding the value and importance?
• 27:40
  So so I think that's where every there's not a one size fits all where you can say, alright.
• 27:45
  This is the proportion.
• 27:46
  This is the reality because companies have their own challenges, which is where I think
• 27:50
  that's that's where in developing individual strategic plans around this becomes a little
• 27:55
  bit of a of a factor as well.
• 27:59
  So if I'm a CEO and I'm listening and I'm thinking, you know, we're we're doing okay ish
• 28:04
  with this, but I really wanna get a better sense of it.
• 28:09
  So strap plans related related to your hybrid teams would be a a place to start.
• 28:15
  What other things should they be considering?
• 28:17
  Like, I mean, I know there's engagement stores.
• 28:19
  There's town halls.
• 28:20
  There's anonymous surveys.
• 28:22
  What what other things in the hybrids kind of world would be good for me if I'm the the
• 28:28
  leader to that, you know, the the senior leadership team to look at.
• 28:33
  Yeah.
• 28:33
  I like that.
• 28:34
  So sometimes we think about surveys as, like, the surveying, fatigue of, like, oh my
• 28:41
  goodness, another survey.
• 28:42
  I can't take it.
• 28:43
  We there was an interesting this is just an example, but there there's this blended piece
• 28:48
  of, like, survey.
• 28:49
  As a leader, I wanna hear my people.
• 28:51
  Now part of what becomes important in a survey is that we are not just not going into a black
• 28:57
  hole.
• 28:57
  I take my time to respond, and I never hear back.
• 29:00
  Or I maybe it's on it's happening.
• 29:02
  Something's changing on such a big level that I can't make the connection between my feedback
• 29:07
  and this policy that's taking place 6 months down the road.
• 29:11
  So the more immediate responses and addressing people's concerns, that's a piece of it for
• 29:17
  sure.
• 29:17
  I think built into that, There's a there's a program called Office Vives, and that is where
• 29:24
  we're getting survey questions.
• 29:26
  So we're able to sort of understand where our peaks and valleys are as leaders, getting
• 29:30
  feedback from our teams.
• 29:31
  But there's also this lovely component where you're able to send a positive vibe or good
• 29:36
  vibe to people.
• 29:37
  So you can say, hey, Roxanne.
• 29:39
  I noticed you really told a funny story in this thing, and I'm gonna send it.
• 29:43
  And you're gonna open that feel good that somebody on your team, so we're not only
• 29:46
  relying on leaders to recognize each other, but team members can do the same thing.
• 29:52
  We think teams do that well that some do it better than others.
• 29:55
  But if we're leading, by example, and encouraging it, like, hey.
• 29:58
  We have a team chat or we have a way to send these positive vibes on the regular.
• 30:04
  Those kinds of things can be helpful.
• 30:07
  Again, I think creating time and space for people to get together if it's possible, having
• 30:12
  some in person meetings, if it's possible, doing some things where we're getting to know
• 30:16
  each other, whether that's virtual or in person.
• 30:19
  So carving out some portion of your dedicated time So if you're a leader, you're looking at
• 30:26
  budgets and how many hours are people working in a year?
• 30:29
  And what can we what can we carve out for some of these additional pieces?
• 30:33
  And they're not stress.
• 30:34
  They're not like, well, we have to get all this stuff done.
• 30:37
  And then if we have time, we'll do that social activity.
• 30:39
  That's part of the fabric of making it work.
• 30:43
  Absolutely.
• 30:44
  And and I think inherently in that, you know, if you're looking, and I mean, teams will
• 30:49
  always have swirls.
• 30:50
  Right?
• 30:51
  I will say there's this flow and then there's conflict, and then there's other things going
• 30:55
  on and there's so many moving parts.
• 30:57
  So being having that overall umbrella of the understandings of where your teams are, I
• 31:03
  think, very vital.
• 31:05
  Absolutely.
• 31:05
  Does that make sense, Lee?
• 31:06
  So let's talk about conflict.
• 31:09
  Let's because I, you know, I mean, obviously, at any given point, things are constantly
• 31:15
  changing business, you know, strategic objectives are maybe you know, being met, not
• 31:19
  being met, like you said, there's different moving parts.
• 31:21
  There's, rightsizing, downsizing, all that stuff that happens.
• 31:26
  And then there's gonna be conflict.
• 31:29
  So what what kinds of things with hybrid teams again in reference to addressing conflict?
• 31:37
  Are there differences from when we were completely in person, or is it kind of the same
• 31:42
  types of things to consider?
• 31:45
  Yeah.
• 31:45
  I think, I mean, some things are the same.
• 31:47
  I think respectfully listening and validating people's feelings.
• 31:51
  It doesn't mean we're always we're always gonna get what we want.
• 31:54
  But it does mean being able to say I hear you and whether that's in person or that's in a,
• 31:59
  you know, in a teams meeting, I hear you.
• 32:02
  I I'm considering what you're having to say.
• 32:05
  We can always give people what they want.
• 32:07
  You know, somebody might feel like I didn't get the raise that I wanted this year, and I'm not
• 32:11
  happy about it.
• 32:12
  Well, if I'm a director or a manager, I can't say, well, okay.
• 32:16
  We'll just give you the raise that you want.
• 32:17
  That's not gonna happen.
• 32:18
  But being being honest and upfront as best we can is important validating people's feelings,
• 32:26
  trying to find other ways to engage or meet their needs.
• 32:31
  So if somebody's unhappy because they didn't get a raise, can I find something that I can do
• 32:35
  for them as a manager or or a supervisor?
• 32:38
  Like, if I also know that they do thrive with personal recognition or public recognition, I
• 32:45
  can I can try to make a point to tune into that?
• 32:49
  So I think with conflict, we we wanna try to create an environment of back.
• 32:53
  Obviously, leaders set the tone for that.
• 32:56
  So if you're a leader and you're shutting people down or quieting people up or ignoring
• 33:00
  what they're saying or telling them not important, especially if it's in a public
• 33:04
  setting, you're setting a tone that could really be toxic for the folks who are on that
• 33:10
  team.
• 33:10
  We also have the opportunity to do the opposite, which is to validate care for.
• 33:15
  You know, if somebody has a has a has a rough moment in a meeting and you can tell they're
• 33:19
  not happy, reach out to them independently and say, hey.
• 33:23
  You know what?
• 33:24
  I noticed this about you.
• 33:25
  I noticed that you were quiet.
• 33:27
  I noticed that you were you you got kind of quiet or you seem to to sort of check out.
• 33:32
  Is there anything going on that you wanna talk about?
• 33:35
  And and maybe it's about the meeting.
• 33:37
  Maybe it's about something completely different.
• 33:38
  But, again, you're checking in with that person in a virtual world.
• 33:43
  Yeah.
• 33:43
  I might have to create a little more effort in doing that and send you a team's message.
• 33:47
  If I'm in the in person world.
• 33:49
  I might walk past your office and poke my head in and just say, hey.
• 33:53
  How you doing?
• 33:54
  How are things going?
• 33:55
  I noticed you were a little quiet today.
• 33:57
  So we have these different mediums as you mentioned.
• 34:00
  We could send a note.
• 34:01
  We can hey.
• 34:02
  Can I hop on a quick call?
• 34:03
  We got really good when I was at TELUS about like, hey.
• 34:06
  Can I just hop on a quick team call with you?
• 34:07
  So we didn't have to have this the meeting scheduled.
• 34:10
  A formal statement.
• 34:12
  Yeah.
• 34:12
  Absolutely.
• 34:13
  Yeah.
• 34:13
  I I need to run something by you or whatever.
• 34:15
  And I
• 34:15
  think virtually
• 34:17
  we do that so much better when we're in person.
• 34:19
  Right?
• 34:19
  Like, I would I would my senior leader would go, hey, Durham, because he would joke with me.
• 34:24
  And I had 5, and I'd be like, is it good or bad?
• 34:27
  Oh, it's okay.
• 34:28
  And then, you know, we would joke with that element, you know, like that to get that
• 34:32
  synergy, it really does you know, take a fair amount of work.
• 34:36
  Now I Lee, I think this is an an area that I think so many people are gonna gain perspective
• 34:44
  from.
• 34:44
  So for loneliness, if if you could give us maybe two things that if companies could
• 34:51
  implement, say, in the next week or so to address loneliness, what would be 2 of the top
• 34:58
  things that you think they could do?
• 35:00
  So two things that are kind of the so so I think about, like, like, bigger policy pieces.
• 35:05
  Like I mentioned, the telus days of giving that telus does, that, you know, obviously, that
• 35:10
  takes a lot of work and that not a overnight type of thing.
• 35:12
  But if I if you're a leader, I would say 2 things that you could do that are super easy,
• 35:17
  but impactful.
• 35:19
  One is take the first 5 minutes of your meetings, your team meetings, your town halls,
• 35:24
  even, or or something where you have the ability to interact a bit.
• 35:28
  And ask the questions.
• 35:30
  What's everyone doing for the summer vacation?
• 35:32
  Or, you know, how's everyone spending?
• 35:34
  If you're in the US, we have a 3 day weekend coming up.
• 35:37
  Anybody doing some fun for the 3 day weekend.
• 35:39
  So so that per, like, purposeful personal connection at the beginning of meetings, I
• 35:46
  think, is something you could do today if you had a meeting scheduled.
• 35:50
  So that's an important piece.
• 35:52
  I think the the other piece that might take a little bit more building, but as I mentioned,
• 35:58
  like, we all have we all have the yellow legal pad the notebook that's next to our computers,
• 36:05
  start taking notes about things you hear that your employees are talking about.
• 36:09
  Sometimes they they might be explaining something in a meeting, and they'll say, well,
• 36:13
  when I was down in, you know, I was in Florida visiting my my daughter who lives there, is an
• 36:21
  attorney.
• 36:22
  Make a note of that because that's something that you might want to talk about later on or
• 36:27
  something that you're making a note that will personally connect and it will teach your team
• 36:33
  that you are listening and that you are invested in them beyond you know, the
• 36:38
  productivity markers that we expect from people anyways.
• 36:41
  So that's something that could happen again in the very, very short term.
• 36:45
  Larger term pieces, I think, leaders at the, you know, in the the C suite leaders as we call
• 36:50
  them, that's where thinking about how does this fit into our strategic plan?
• 36:55
  Or how do we think about this in the culture of our workplace and how do we create a culture
• 37:01
  where I support your ability to go volunteer for an organization you find important, or how
• 37:06
  do I mental health wellness days is something that has, been implemented.
• 37:11
  Those are been implemented in a lot of companies that saying, you know what?
• 37:15
  I care about you as as an individual.
• 37:17
  It might not necessarily create a personal relation between us, but it does tell you my
• 37:23
  employer cares about my mental health functioning, and that, especially for the
• 37:27
  younger generation, is a huge factor.
• 37:31
  So interesting because my twenty two year old is just in the process of starting to look.
• 37:34
  And he and he said, you know, I I have to find right fits.
• 37:38
  I'm like, you know, here he started off.
• 37:40
  He said, well, you know, I have to, you know, it has to be something I really really enjoy,
• 37:44
  but it has to be kind of, you know, you know, things that would afford me the the work life
• 37:50
  balance.
• 37:50
  And I'm like, you know, it's interesting how that language at 22 compared to, like, I'm
• 37:55
  like, a 22.
• 37:56
  I don't even know if I was thinking.
• 37:58
  I was like, are you gonna give me the job?
• 38:00
  I acknowledge you, I will work hard.
• 38:02
  I need a paycheck.
• 38:03
  Right.
• 38:04
  Yes.
• 38:04
  And I'm gonna work really, really hard.
• 38:06
  That was the extent to but Lee, it's it's it's been a pleasure and, thank you for sharing all
• 38:11
  your wisdom about all the fantastic work that you're doing out there.
• 38:15
  So what am I walking away with?
• 38:17
  I think fundamentally I'm walking away with Think about what it takes to connect.
• 38:25
  And if you're a little bit rusty as a leader, just kind of think, you know, how can I go back
• 38:30
  to thinking about when I the best about connection when I was leading others?
• 38:35
  And then if I'm not doing it or I'm uncomfortable with maybe the digital or the,
• 38:40
  you know, kind of the combination of in person and digital, what do I need to, recognize that
• 38:46
  I have to learn to get better?
• 38:48
  So, Molly, for anybody that's wanting to chat or have some further conversation with you,
• 38:54
  please tell us where they can get ahold of you.
• 38:56
  Yeah.
• 38:57
  I am I am super excited.
• 38:59
  Obviously, I'm passionate about this topic.
• 39:01
  I think, you know, we all challenge are saying, I think we all can get better at our engagement
• 39:08
  strategies and understanding how they can, you know, keep people working for us and happy and
• 39:14
  productive and so forth.
• 39:15
  I can be found on and I so I would love to have conversations, further conversations.
• 39:20
  I'm happy to do even more formal sort of consult patience with leaders around what does
• 39:25
  engagement mean in your company?
• 39:27
  As I mentioned, each company has its own realities.
• 39:30
  So we can't put a blanket over it and say, well, everybody should have, you know, in
• 39:34
  person meetings three times a year.
• 39:36
  That may not be in the scope of somebody's reality.
• 39:40
  So I am more than happy to do some consultations more individually digging into,
• 39:46
  okay, what are the challenges of your of your company How are you doing so far?
• 39:51
  There are companies that are doing amazing things with engagement and some that are really
• 39:55
  starting struggle.
• 39:57
  So happy to do that type of thing for sure.
• 40:00
  I can be found at LinkedIn, and that's probably the easiest way to find me.
• 40:04
  Just my name, Lee Pava Wetland, easy to find.
• 40:07
  That's probably the simplest way to to find me, to connect and super responsive in that way,
• 40:13
  and then we can move the conversation further.
• 40:15
  And, you know, I can certainly hop on phone calls with people.
• 40:19
  Love to have those chats.
• 40:20
  And if there's something more formal or involved, we can we can talk about that at that
• 40:26
  point as well.
• 40:27
  I love digging into this kind of thing.
• 40:29
  So Awesome.
• 40:30
  So we'll make sure that the, LinkedIn link is in the the show notes.
• 40:34
  So everyone, thanks again for hanging out with us.
• 40:37
  For anyone wanting to connect and just kinda know how authentically you're connected to your
• 40:41
  relationships.
• 40:43
  What you what you can do is do just do a really, really quick mini quiz couple of
• 40:47
  minutes, go to roxanderhodge.comforward/quiz.
• 40:50
  And we'll kinda walk you through some simple questions, and we'll send you a report.
• 40:55
  And and then you can chat with me just at any point.
• 40:59
  So, again, Lee, thanks again and everyone.
• 41:01
  Thanks again for your time, and we'll chat again with you next week.
• 41:04
  Take care.
• 41:05
  Thanks so much.
• 41:06
  Thanks.
• 41:07
  One second.
• 41:12
  I just have to how to stop this because I don't wanna end it, but I don't know how to.
• 41:19
  So If I end, I'm gonna pop you off all together.
• 41:28
  Alright.
• 41:28
  Well, I'll say goodbye.
• 41:29
  That way, we won't have too much to edit at the end.
• 41:31
  And thank you so much.
• 41:33
  It was a great interview, and we'll we'll chat soon.
• 41:35
  I'll let you know when it's gonna go out.
• 41:37
  Thank you.
• 41:37
  I appreciate it so much.
• 41:39
  It was great.
• 41:40
  Super exciting.
• 41:41
  Thank you so much for giving
• 41:42
  me that.
• 41:43
  Okay.
• 41:43
  Take care.
• 41:44
  We'll talk to you soon.
• 41:45
  Bye bye.
• 41:45
  See you.