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BIZARRE EXCUSE FROM CLERK WHO DESTROYED ALEX MURDAUGH'S MURDER CONVICTION · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: In the last days, we learned the bizarre excuse from
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: a previously competent court clerk who destroyed double killer Alex
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Murdock's murder case, this while she dodges a lawsuit. I'm
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: you for being with us.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: The South Carolina court clerk who destroyed Alex Murdock's double
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: murder conviction has offered an excuse for why the civil
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: lawsuit against her should be thrown out.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: What lawsuit?
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  Speaker 2: Alex Murdock sued the clerk, Becky Hill overclaims she interfered
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: with the jury that found him guilty of killing his
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: wife and son. Now, I believe the evidence convicted him.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: If he wants to blame it all on Becky Hill, fine,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: But Alex Murdoch has sued the South Carolina court clerk
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: for six hundred thousand dollars. He claims she swayed yourars
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: to convict him and that she should pay legal costs.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Some people think he should be paying her six hundred
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars because he's getting a new trial on a
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: double murder conviction. That said, what do the facts reveal.
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  Speaker 4: The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Alex Murdoch's trial was
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: not fair, that the jury tambourine affected the verdict.
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  Speaker 2: With all of that evidence, how could they vote any
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  Speaker 2: other way.
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  Speaker 5: Alex Murdall is a liar and a thief and a
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  Speaker 5: generally despicable Q and me.
• 1:50
  Speaker 6: I really think the only thing they had his voice
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  Speaker 6: being on the snapchat.
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  Speaker 2: Whoopsie, be careful what you ask dear for, you will
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: surely get it. That should be the phrase ringing in
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Alex Murdog's ears about right now.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: He appealed his.
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  Speaker 2: Double murder conviction, it was reversed. He got what he
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: asked for. But now the South Carolina Attorney generalist said,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: you know what, we think the death penalty may be
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: in order in this case. Joining me in all star
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: panel to make sense of what we are learning that
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and so much more, as his fleet of defense attorneys say,
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  Speaker 2: it will be a game day decision whether Murdoch takes
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: a stand.
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  Speaker 3: Are you kidding me?
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  Speaker 2: There will be no way in H double L. And
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  Speaker 2: speaking of h E double L, it will freeze over
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  Speaker 2: before Murdoch puts one toe on the stand. After his
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  Speaker 2: disastrous first appearance. Let's watch him snotting on the stand.
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  Speaker 3: Please.
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  Speaker 2: The quivering, the snodding, the pinching oneself to make one's
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  Speaker 2: self cry on the stand knows no end. Take a
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  Speaker 2: look at this, Mark Pepper, you're the veteran defense attorney
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: joining us at oh yep, WLTV.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Boy that had to hurt.
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  Speaker 2: I saw that happen, and Mark Pepper, I can't unsee it.
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  Speaker 3: I can't unsee it.
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  Speaker 2: Please please please put him back on the stand.
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  Speaker 5: What do you think, I think you'll get your wish.
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  Speaker 5: I think his ego will not allow him to not
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: take the stand, much less take the advice of his
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: own attorneys. As you may recall, both mister r Putley
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: and mister Griffin advised against him taking the stand. But
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  Speaker 5: that's not Alec. Alec is convinced that he can convince
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  Speaker 5: a juror of twelve what we saw that day I
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  Speaker 5: hope to not see again, but I suspect we will
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  Speaker 5: see it, and probably relatively soon, once the pray rests.
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: Once the prosecution rests, I think they'll call him right quick.
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  Speaker 2: You know what, two times around, you're thinking Murdog is
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  Speaker 2: going to make an encore performance. You know what, I'll
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: burn that bridge when I get there. But I am.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna go over to the.
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  Speaker 2: Courthouse right now, and I'm lying on the front row.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not moving until Murdoch gets on the stand because
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: I need the front row. Last time, I was sitting
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  Speaker 2: behind the one surviving family member, Buster Murdog and his
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  Speaker 2: now wife, and I had to keep moving around to
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  Speaker 2: see what was happening because I didn't want to watch one.
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  Speaker 2: I didn't want to miss one fake tear Pepper. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: I blame him for his conviction, But tonight, is this true?
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  Speaker 2: He's actually suing court clerk Becky Hill. He's actually suing her? Whoa, whoa,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: whoa Wait a minute, straight out to Gg McKelvey, joining
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  Speaker 2: up investigative reporter, journalist host top Pretty Liza, and Alibis Gigi.
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  Speaker 2: Wait hold on Becky Hill, According to the South Carolina
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  Speaker 2: Supreme Court handed him a reversal on a silver platter.
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  Speaker 3: On top of the Christmas tree. Why is he suing her?
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  Speaker 7: You know, when I heard he was getting a new trial,
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  Speaker 7: my first thought is he is going to sue Becky Hill. Now,
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  Speaker 7: whether or not there's any money to be had that
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  Speaker 7: remains to be seen. But yesterday at the press conference,
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  Speaker 7: his defense attorney said part of the monetary part of
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  Speaker 7: the money they're seeking is to pay for his defense
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  Speaker 7: that he paid for first first trial, because her actions
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  Speaker 7: led to that being jagree.
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  Speaker 3: I think you're awesome. You're great. You're on the ground
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  Speaker 3: right there. You know it like the back of your hand.
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  Speaker 2: But the question was why is he suing her.
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  Speaker 7: He's suing her because he wants to be reimbursed for
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  Speaker 7: his defense attorney fees for that first trial. They did
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  Speaker 7: mention they're seeking other moneies, but they did not specify
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: what for, but we do know the six hundred thousand
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  Speaker 7: specifically was mentioned for his defense fees he paid for
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  Speaker 7: trial number one.
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  Speaker 3: Martin Pepper is joining US.
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  Speaker 2: Veteran criminal defense attorney, founded the Pepper Law Firm in
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  Speaker 2: South Carolina. Okay, wait a minute, let me understand the
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  Speaker 2: legal theory. She, according to the jurrrs, tainted their verdict.
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  Speaker 2: I think they found him guilty because he is guilty
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  Speaker 2: and the evidence is overwhelming. But two, I think two
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  Speaker 2: jurrars stated that she made inappropriate comments and it colored
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  Speaker 2: their verdict. Fine South Carolina Supreme Court had to reverse
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  Speaker 2: so he should be giving her a bonus. He should
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  Speaker 2: be sending her a fruit basket. Why is she suing her?
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  Speaker 2: What is the legal theory that hart Putlin is pulling
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  Speaker 2: straight out of his bony rear end.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, he should be doing exactly what he's doing, which
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  Speaker 5: is getting his six hundred thousand dollars back that he
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  Speaker 5: used in expert fees.
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  Speaker 2: The legal theory, Why can't anybody give me a legitimate
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  Speaker 2: legal theory? In our country, that's called a frivolous lawsuit.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: You can be yoasted, yst that's the name of a
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  Speaker 2: case where there was a frivolous lawsuit and has come
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  Speaker 2: to be a moniker for frivolous lawsuits being filed.
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  Speaker 3: You're gonna get yosted.
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  Speaker 2: So can you give me a legal theory?
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  Speaker 5: Take two, Nancy, The legal theory is very simple. In
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  Speaker 5: our country, under Section nineteen eighty three of our United
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  Speaker 5: States Constitution, we are granted the right to be free
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  Speaker 5: from outside influences at a trial on our on our
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  Speaker 5: trial before our peers. When you have an independent actor,
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  Speaker 5: who by the way, is a state actor in this case,
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  Speaker 5: she's the elected clerk of court. When you have her
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  Speaker 5: purposely directly influencing the jury under the color of law,
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  Speaker 5: given her a position as third court that opens her
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  Speaker 5: up to a claim of nineteen eighty three Section nineteen
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  Speaker 5: eighty three of our United States Constitution that allows for
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  Speaker 5: her to be held liable in a civil court of
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  Speaker 5: law and to pay damages in addition to damages that
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  Speaker 5: being six hundred thousand dollars plus whatever these attorneys can
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  Speaker 5: elicit in the trial that case, they would also be
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  Speaker 5: entitled under nineteen eighty eight US Constitution section to attorney
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  Speaker 5: fees and costs for bringing this claim. So I would
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  Speaker 5: argue that this is the opposite of frivolous. This is
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  Speaker 5: a very legitimate claim against a bad actor who was
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  Speaker 5: acting under the color of state law. Under nineteen eighty
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  Speaker 5: three US Constitution.
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  Speaker 2: There is Alex muernad crying on body can but keep
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  Speaker 2: watching because suddenly he flips it off and starts checking
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  Speaker 2: his cell phone. Please stay on that because I want
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  Speaker 2: to see him checking his cell phone. I just wish
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  Speaker 2: I could see the text he was actually checking that night. Okay,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: hold on, while we're watching Alex Murdoch. Oh there you go,
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  Speaker 2: force himself to cry in front of the police. Let
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  Speaker 2: me understand this okay, Mark Pepper, please do not throw
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  Speaker 2: a lot of Latin phrases.
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  Speaker 3: Nobody likes that.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, lawyers are forced to learn what they mean, but
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  Speaker 2: we don't speak Latin. Okay, what would be the damages?
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  Speaker 2: So he gets tried for murder, he gets convicted, she
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  Speaker 2: makes off hand comments to the jurors that two of
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: them say color their verdict. He gets the reversal because
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: of her, and he's suing for how much money?
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  Speaker 3: I think.
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  Speaker 2: No jury is going to do this. They're going to
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  Speaker 2: laugh him out of court. She threw him a bone,
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  Speaker 2: a life preserver.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I would argue quite the opposite, but for her
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  Speaker 5: jury tampering. In his mind, he would have been acquitted.
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  Speaker 5: And that's his position, is that they tried a valid case.
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  Speaker 5: They had at least one or two jurors that clearly
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  Speaker 5: said she influenced their verdict. Now keep in mind, they've
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  Speaker 5: voted guilty. So if they're going to take the stand
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  Speaker 5: and say Becky Hill influenced my verdict, well then they
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  Speaker 5: must have been leaning to not guilty. So his position is,
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  Speaker 5: you've now damaged me. I was going to get either
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  Speaker 5: a not guilty verdict or at the very worst, a
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  Speaker 5: hung trial a mistrial because it wouldn't be unanimous. And
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  Speaker 5: so you now owe me the six hundred thousand dollars
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  Speaker 5: in costs that I had to spend to try this
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  Speaker 5: first case. Because I'm no closer to an acquittal or
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  Speaker 5: proven my innocence than I was way back in twenty
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  Speaker 5: twenty three.
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  Speaker 3: I mean it, I got it. I got it, So
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  Speaker 3: I got it.
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  Speaker 2: You're stating that in a nutshell, Alex Murdoch thinks he
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  Speaker 2: would have been acquitted. Yeah, but for Baky Hill's statements
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  Speaker 2: to the jury. He thinks he was convicted because, Okay,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: hold on just a moment. Doctor Kendall Crowns joining us
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  Speaker 2: renowned chief medical examiner Terrence County. That's fort Worth, never
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: a lack of business in the Morgue. Has conducted literally
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  Speaker 2: thousands of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, and he is the
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: star of a hit podcast, Mayhem and the Morgue. Doctor
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  Speaker 2: Kendall Crowns, you just heard. Defense attorney Mark Pepper insist
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  Speaker 2: that the reason Alex and Murlock was convicted is because
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  Speaker 2: of the few offhand comments that the court clerk may
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  Speaker 2: Becky Hill, could you refresh Mark Pepper's recollection? As we
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  Speaker 2: say in court, when a witness screws up on the stand,
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  Speaker 2: you have to go, your honor, may I refresh the
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  Speaker 2: witness's recollection. Meanwhile, you're boiling seething inside because you have
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: gone over the material with the witness and yet they
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  Speaker 2: still say something completely different than what they told you
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  Speaker 2: fifteen minutes before. So you have to refresh their recollection
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  Speaker 2: with maybe a document or in this case, a medical
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  Speaker 2: examiner's report. Becky Hill, had nothing to do with what
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: happened to Paul and Maggie. Could you explain, Doctor Kendall Crowns,
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  Speaker 2: why why the ag is now throwing the death penalty
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: on the table? What did the autopsy tell you about
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  Speaker 2: the death the murders of Maggie and Paul?
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  Speaker 8: Certainly, so, let's start with Maggie's autopsy. She has five
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  Speaker 8: gunshot wounds to her body to her intermediate range meaning
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  Speaker 8: they have gunshot or gunpowder tattooing or stippling, meaning the
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  Speaker 8: gunshot wound is between two to six inches to about
• 13:00
  Speaker 8: two to three feet away from her body. One of
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  Speaker 8: the gunshot wounds is actually into the back of her
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  Speaker 8: skull that goes through her brain. It's almost like an
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  Speaker 8: execution type wound. It appears that she gets shot in
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  Speaker 8: the abdomen, shot in the thigh at close frains. She's
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  Speaker 8: probably fallen to her knees, and then the individual then
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  Speaker 8: shoots her in the back of the head, blowing out
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  Speaker 8: her brain, killing her. At that point, she also has
• 13:23
  Speaker 8: a gunshot wound to her left wrist, so she could
• 13:25
  Speaker 8: have been holding her arm up trying to block the
• 13:28
  Speaker 8: incoming bullets for all we know. So she was essentially
• 13:32
  Speaker 8: shot to her knees and then executed. The son. On
• 13:36
  Speaker 8: the other hand, he's shot twice with a shotgun, so
• 13:39
  Speaker 8: whoever did the killing switched up, switched up weapons and
• 13:44
  Speaker 8: then killed him with a shotgun, one going through the
• 13:46
  Speaker 8: chest blowing out his armpit, and the other one entering
• 13:50
  Speaker 8: into the neck and then blowing out the top of
• 13:53
  Speaker 8: his head, blowing out his brain as well. So you
• 13:56
  Speaker 8: have two people fatally shot. One even appears to be
• 14:01
  Speaker 8: basically executed at the scene. So you know, when you're
• 14:04
  Speaker 8: beginning to talk death penalty, you've got to weigh in
• 14:07
  Speaker 8: a number of factors, which I know you fully understand.
• 14:10
  Speaker 8: But it does look like at least Maggie was executed
• 14:14
  Speaker 8: at some point.
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  Speaker 3: You know, while you.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Were talking, Doctor Kendall Crowns, I was thinking about I mean,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: this is Buster Murdog, this is Alex Murdog's son, Maggie's son.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about my own son. And I try
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: not to place my daughter or son in the positions
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: of the victims. But when you're describing bullets ripping through
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: his body, and I know from studying the crime scene
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: that his brain matter was up on the top of
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: a door. It blew out of his head with such ferocity,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I know that part of his skull was found in
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: a different location. And I think of my son's beautiful
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: face and head. I can hardly think straight. And for
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Mark Pepper or hartput Land, or Alex and Murdoch or
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: anybody to say that somehow Becky Hills guilty verdict, they're.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Out of their minds.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Doctor Kildn crown Hold joining me right now is a
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: very special guest. In addition to Bethany Marshall soon to
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: join us, Chris McDonough, director Cold Case Foundation, homicide detective
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Dave Mack, a friend of Becky Hills right now, and
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: of course Gg McKelvey, Blanca to A B. I. T.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Simpson is joining us. This is Murdoch's former house keeper.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: She's the author of an incredible book, Within the House
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: of Murdoch. I mean I stayed up at nine and
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: read that, even though I knew I get up at
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: five o'clock the next morning, I stayed up till I
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: finished it.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Within the House of Murdock.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Dot com Blanca, mister baute Simpson, thank you for being
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: with us tonight. What was your reaction when you heard
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Murdoch's case had been reversed.
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: First of all, thank you for having me. I I
• 16:31
  Speaker 6: was shocked, but it wasn't The feelings were more, you know,
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: what about Maggie and Paul.
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: You know, here we go again.
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: Are they going to be lost in all the frenzy?
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: You know that that was my first feeling. Maggie and
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: Paul and I went to I did go to the
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: cemetery right after I heard the news. I Bill, I
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: don't know, I don't know what it was. I don't
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: know whether it was her. You know, I could kind
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: of hear her, you know, saying, girl, you need to
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: come and see me. But I just felt the urge
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: that I needed to go by in even though they
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: can't speak, just to say here we go again. That
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: was and I'm still upset over it, but I respect
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: the court's decision. There's nothing I can.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: We have to respect the court's decision. I agree with
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: you on that, missus Trabiata Simpson. I agree with you.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: If we don't respect the court's decision, we might as
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: well be in a country that has.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: A rule of man, not a rule of law.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: We whether we disagree or we agree with a court's decision,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: you follow it like it's a lump of coal and
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: keep going if you disagree with it, because that is
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: the rule of law. They have ruled and we will
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: execute their wishes because we are officers of the court
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and we respect the court.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: That mean we have to agree with the court. But
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: what do you what do you make.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Of it, Miss Simpson, that it's all because of some comments,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: some offhand comments, And look, I'm not saying Backy Hill
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: didn't make the comments, and they were wrong and they
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: were inappropriate, and the South Carolina Supreme Court had no.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Choice but to reverse.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I get it, but I don't think that what she
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: said is why he was convicted. Did you just hear
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crown's describing a tiny bit of the injuries
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: to Maggie and Paul.
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: I agree with what you're saying. I believe he was
• 18:53
  Speaker 6: convicted based on the evidence of what that was presented
• 18:56
  Speaker 6: to the court. I do agree with that. But unfortunately,
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: the limelight and the stardom, you know, got involved in
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: all this, and uh missed went to Miss Becky Hill's head.
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: And here we are again, you know, just when we
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: thought everybody was going back, you know, to some kind
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: of normalcy, here we go again with this and it's
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: opening up, you know, the wound that was starting to close,
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: and it's hard. I believe the dogs told on him.
• 19:37
  Speaker 6: You know that he was not alone when he made
• 19:39
  Speaker 6: that call. He was not alone.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: I call him the cleaners.
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: I will not disclose who I believe. I know who
• 19:45
  Speaker 6: they who I think they are. You know, more than
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: positive I know who they are. When Alex, Maggie and
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: Paul were at the kennels, you hear the kennel video,
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: you don't hear the other dogs. The dogs are called
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: as soon as you hear the beginning of the phone call.
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: The dogs are barking and moving around.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: From our friends at Daily Mail. Miss Simpson explained to
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: me Alex Murdog's behavior before and after the murders.
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: They were normal. There was nothing that would say that
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: they weren't a loving family. They were very caring for
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: each other. They they did everything together. They traveled together.
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: If he was going to be gone on the weekend,
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: you know, him and Maggie would would go together. The
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: boys would go with him too. There was nothing to
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: indicate that there was anything wrong with the family, with
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: anybody in the family. Of course, there was stress you
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: know here and there, like you know most families, but
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: you know with the pending you know, litigation that was
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: coming up, but there was not any issue with them
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: as far as there wasn't anything indicating that there was
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: anything you know, wrong with the relationship or anything of
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: that sort. After the after the murders, he was very
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: He was like inconsolable. He was you know, he would cry,
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: He would you know, kind of like sit and kind
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: of like look off at a distance. But there was
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: a lot of people around him during that time, you know,
• 21:34
  Speaker 6: trying to console him. And then there was moments where
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: you know, he was fine, and then there was moments
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: where he would just start crying.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: So let me understand this. Do you in some way
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: think Marlog is innocent?
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: No, ma'am, I don't.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Rebecca Becky, the Carleton County court clerk, offered up reasoning
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: as to why she should not be sued by Alex Murdock.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: She says she should benefit from quote quasi judicial immunity.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: For instance, a judge cannot be sued over a verdict.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: The case can be reversed, but the judge cannot be
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: civilly sued for money. It's all part of sovereign immunity.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: The king can do no wrong. So Hill is claiming
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a quasi judicial status and that she cannot be sued
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: civilly by Alex Murdock. She also claims she shouldn't be
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: on the hook for damages to reimburse him for legal
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: costs because he would have had to pay that same
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: money for his defense regardless of her alleged meddling. Okay,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: that kind of makes sense. He would have to pay
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: defense lawyers anyway for his appeal, so why does she
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: have to help him out with those payments? Interesting theory?
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: What actually happened? Joining me now renowned psychoanalyst out of
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: the LA jurisdiction, doctor Bethany Marshall.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: She's the author of deal Breaker.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: You can see her now on Peacock and Bravo, and
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: you can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany I dislike him even more now after hearing
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Missipsons speak because after the murders, he sat around and
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: let everyone console him, knowing he committed the double murders,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: shooting Maggie in the back of the skull execution style, Stipling.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: You've been with us enough to know what that means.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: That means that the gun was so close to her
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: head it burned her skin. And he is getting consoled
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: and people are making food for him and bringing him
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: flowers and patting on the back and handing him kleenex.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Really is disgusting.
• 24:06
  Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, not only is it disgusting, it's his moment
• 24:09
  Speaker 9: of glory, right, So you know, Alex Murdoch was excellent.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: He was practiced at extracting.
• 24:16
  Speaker 9: Resources from other people, whether it's money from clients, trust funds,
• 24:21
  Speaker 9: whether it was sympathy from the people around him. He
• 24:24
  Speaker 9: was good at acting. And Nancy, let me remind the
• 24:27
  Speaker 9: viewers that his offending pattern was he would spend money
• 24:31
  Speaker 9: that was not his to spend. Maybe he stole it
• 24:33
  Speaker 9: from a client trust account, or he would like with
• 24:36
  Speaker 9: Gloria Saturley, he would say to her sons, hey, why
• 24:39
  Speaker 9: don't we just file a wrongful death lawsuit against me
• 24:43
  Speaker 9: and you can have the money. Then of course he
• 24:45
  Speaker 9: keeps the money. So what he perennially has to do
• 24:48
  Speaker 9: is steal from the next victim in order to repay
• 24:52
  Speaker 9: the victim from the time before. So that is exactly
• 24:55
  Speaker 9: what he's doing with this court case. It's the same
• 24:58
  Speaker 9: offending pattern. Now he has a chance to say, hey,
• 25:02
  Speaker 9: I don't really owe that six hundred thousand dollars to
• 25:04
  Speaker 9: my attorneys.
• 25:06
  Speaker 10: Becky Hill, you pay it.
• 25:07
  Speaker 9: You're the one who got me this guilty verdict, so
• 25:09
  Speaker 9: you pay it. Now I have even more resources to expend.
• 25:13
  Speaker 9: Although you know what, Nancy, you know who's he's stealing
• 25:16
  Speaker 9: from now, He's stealing from the taxpayers. He's stealing from
• 25:19
  Speaker 9: us because this is going to be a new, long,
• 25:22
  Speaker 9: expensive court case. So the offending pattern is going on
• 25:26
  Speaker 9: and on and on. It's like will it never end?
• 25:29
  Speaker 9: And I bet whatever depression he was experiencing behind bars
• 25:33
  Speaker 9: has evaporated because he's gotten away with it once again.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: Talk to Bethny.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: What I don't understand is how you can keep a
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: straight face with everyone rubbing your shoulders and handing you
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: cleanex and making you chicken soup after you just murdered
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: your son and your wife and left them to bleed
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: into the dirt and the dog kennel.
• 25:58
  Speaker 9: They were all marks, just like all of his clients
• 26:00
  Speaker 9: who he stole from out of their trust funds, and
• 26:03
  Speaker 9: then the people from the church, and his housekeeper and
• 26:06
  Speaker 9: everybody cooking for him. He loves to manipulate out of
• 26:10
  Speaker 9: other people. He loves to get things that are not his,
• 26:14
  Speaker 9: to get that do not belong to him, even if
• 26:16
  Speaker 9: it's just sympathy, he loves to get it. Nancy. He
• 26:20
  Speaker 9: doesn't have a conscience. He's one of these people where
• 26:23
  Speaker 9: we can truly and accurately use the word cold blooded,
• 26:29
  Speaker 9: because if you heard the housekeeper just now, Bianca, she's
• 26:32
  Speaker 9: talking about how he is going on trips with the
• 26:35
  Speaker 9: kids and they're going hunting together and all of that.
• 26:38
  Speaker 10: He's acting like.
• 26:39
  Speaker 9: A dad, Nancy, Whereas people have no problem just seeing
• 26:42
  Speaker 9: their brains flattered out somewhere. That's how little he actually
• 26:46
  Speaker 9: thinks of them. They're just like a woman putting on jewelry.
• 26:51
  Speaker 9: That's just adornment. It's just jewelry. It's just there to
• 26:54
  Speaker 9: make her look better in the moment.
• 26:56
  Speaker 10: That's what his family was like.
• 26:57
  Speaker 9: They actually, in a way were like the Beard people
• 27:00
  Speaker 9: who he assembled around him to make him look normal
• 27:04
  Speaker 9: while he was stealing from other people. So he in
• 27:08
  Speaker 9: a way recruited them as put soldiers in his crime enterprises.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Joining me now in director Cold Case's Foundation. Former homicide
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: detective who has worked over three hundred homicides and he
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: is the star of the interview room on YouTube. Our friend,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: our colleague, Chris McDonough. We disagree wildly on the Guthrie case,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: but I believe we agree on this case. Chris mcdonnaugh,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: have you ever seen a defendant win in court, whether
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: it's not guilty verdict, whether it's emotion, whether it's getting
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: rid of a juror, or they don't want and you
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: look at them, you know they did it and they're
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: getting a victory like Murdoch has gotten. This is a
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: huge victory to get a reversal on a double murder
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that hardly ever happens, but it has happened. And then
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: the prosecutors, the sheriff's sled South Carolina law enforcement. They
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: have to watch him gloat. It's sickening, I'll tell you.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: What's even more disturbing is imagining him at the funeral
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: home or with everyone fawning all over him and he
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: knows he did it.
• 28:30
  Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, you know, we have to respect our system, right.
• 28:34
  Speaker 11: But at the same time, to your point exactly, Nancy,
• 28:38
  Speaker 11: you know this is a gentleman, you know, as the
• 28:41
  Speaker 11: good doctor Bethany has just pointed out this guy's past feeling.
• 28:45
  Speaker 11: I mean, he has no capacity to understand what it's
• 28:50
  Speaker 11: like to have the sense of empathy. The fact that
• 28:54
  Speaker 11: he pulls his wife to the property that evening and
• 28:59
  Speaker 11: then calls his son while going to the property, so
• 29:03
  Speaker 11: he's got two things happening. He's calling Buster, you know,
• 29:07
  Speaker 11: just checking in on the family, saying he's going to
• 29:09
  Speaker 11: go see Mom and Paul, while intensely knowing he's going
• 29:14
  Speaker 11: to blow their heads off and or execute them. As
• 29:18
  Speaker 11: you know, doctor earlier had pointed out, this guy set
• 29:22
  Speaker 11: this entire thing up. God set a witness at that
• 29:27
  Speaker 11: Kennel that evening, and that was the dog. And then
• 29:30
  Speaker 11: the second piece of that, obviously was the video where
• 29:33
  Speaker 11: you can hear his voice. You know this guy, if
• 29:37
  Speaker 11: he ever gets another opportunity, I agree he I think
• 29:43
  Speaker 11: he's going to take the stand. I think it would
• 29:46
  Speaker 11: be a foolish thing to do, obviously, but I believe
• 29:49
  Speaker 11: he may take the stand again. And you know, we're
• 29:53
  Speaker 11: up for another crazy time.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Alex Murdoch is heading to a retrial.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Very quickly.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: To Martin Pepper, a veteran trial lawyer out of Charleston,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: South Carolina, it's very rare that a murder case, much
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: less a double murder case, gets reversed, but it has happened.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Is there any way on God's green earth mark that
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: the state is going to enter into a guilty plea.
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: Zero points zero percent chance, And even if one were
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: to be offered Nancy, there's a zero percent chance that
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: Alec would even entertain it. This is going to trial,
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: but the Attorney General's Office has already indicated that they
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: intend to reindict should they choose to and get this
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: case to trial, perhaps by the end of the year.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: Dick Harputley and Jim Griffin have all come out and
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: said we look forward to our day in court. The
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: only question is where the trial may occur and when.
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: But there's a zero percent chance that anybody will be
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: talking prea.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: Offered okay.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Two Dave Mack joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. That
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: means if there's not a plea, there's going to be
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: a trial. There's only one way marl I could plea
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: without the state agreeing to it, and that would be
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: a blind plea, which means you don't have an agreement
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: as to the sentence. You just put it up to
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: the judge, and for all we know, the judge could
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: give the death penalty on a blind plea, and you can't.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Take it back once you do a blind plea.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: A blind plea it's where the prosecutor and the defense
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: do not agree on the sentence and the defense just
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: puts it to the judge. They plead guilty, and they
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: stand there and wait to find out what the judge
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: is going to say in sentencing. That's not going to happen.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: So Mart Pepper is right, there's not going to be
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: a plea in this case. Listen, never will we guilty
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: off the table.
• 31:45
  Speaker 12: We want to try. Yeah, they can dismiss it. Yeah,
• 31:48
  Speaker 12: they can dismiss these charges, you know, I think, but
• 31:52
  Speaker 12: he'll never and to a plea to require some admission
• 31:58
  Speaker 12: that he did something he didn't do.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: From our friends at Fox straight out to Dave Matt
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Crime Stories, investigative reporter, tell me about the death penalty.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: What's happening, Well.
• 32:11
  Speaker 13: Nancy, it was interesting that Harpoutlian said, Hey, what has
• 32:14
  Speaker 13: changed in the last few years that now you put
• 32:18
  Speaker 13: the death penalty on the table. Well, South Carolina Attorney
• 32:22
  Speaker 13: General Alan Wilson confirming that his office is considering seeking
• 32:27
  Speaker 13: the death penalty against Murda should he be found guilty
• 32:30
  Speaker 13: a second time. The idea behind this is that when
• 32:36
  Speaker 13: they did the first trial, Nancy, they were having problems
• 32:40
  Speaker 13: in South Carolina with actually carrying out the death penalty,
• 32:45
  Speaker 13: and there was a moratorium. They were dealing with the
• 32:47
  Speaker 13: drugs and everything that goes into the actual death penalty sentence.
• 32:51
  Speaker 13: That's why it wasn't put on the table the first time.
• 32:55
  Speaker 13: Now that they're coming back to it, it's a much
• 32:57
  Speaker 13: different situation. If you remember, during the first trial, there
• 33:00
  Speaker 13: was a lot of debate over how much of the
• 33:03
  Speaker 13: financial accusations of wrongdoing would come into the trial. Well,
• 33:07
  Speaker 13: that's all a foregone conclusion. Now we know what he
• 33:09
  Speaker 13: pleaded there. So this is just straight up one thing
• 33:13
  Speaker 13: and one thing only. It's the murders of Maggie and Paul,
• 33:17
  Speaker 13: nothing else. And now South Carolina says we're putting the
• 33:21
  Speaker 13: death penalty on the table.
• 33:23
  Speaker 14: Possibly temp to carry now one one wagon emergency on
• 33:27
  Speaker 14: Soccer Hatchie Road. Okay, we'll sta address on salcatch Roole.
• 33:32
  Speaker 14: I'm by the church. Uh what church? What church are
• 33:36
  Speaker 14: you talking about?
• 33:38
  Speaker 12: Uh?
• 33:39
  Speaker 14: I don't know the name of it with.
• 33:40
  Speaker 13: The red roof?
• 33:42
  Speaker 14: Oh shit, what end of scatcher roll? Because I don't
• 33:45
  Speaker 14: know what you're talking about? At the Hampton County side. Okay,
• 33:51
  Speaker 14: what's going on? I stopped, I got a flat tire,
• 33:55
  Speaker 14: stop and somebody stopped to help me. And when I
• 33:59
  Speaker 14: turned my back, they tried to shoot me. Oh okay,
• 34:03
  Speaker 14: where you shot?
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: Yes?
• 34:06
  Speaker 14: But I mean I'm okay you shot where where were
• 34:09
  Speaker 14: you shot at? Huh? They actually shoot you? They're tried
• 34:15
  Speaker 14: to shoot you. They shot me. But okay, wait you
• 34:20
  Speaker 14: need ems? Uhuh? Well, I mean yes, I can't drive, okay,
• 34:27
  Speaker 14: and I'm bleeding a lot. When we're part of your body. Uh,
• 34:32
  Speaker 14: I'm not serious.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Somewhere on my head, gg McKelvey joining US investigative journalists,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: host of Pretty Lies and Alibis. You remember that right
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: after gunning down his wife and son, he then set
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: up an elaborate plot to have himself shot on a
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: rural road to make it look like the real killer
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: was after him. Then he shows up in court after
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: his lawyer said he had brain damage with a band
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: aid right here.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Really, do you remember that?
• 35:10
  Speaker 10: I remember it well.
• 35:11
  Speaker 7: I remember getting that alert on my phone, and at
• 35:13
  Speaker 7: first we all thought, whoever got Maggie and Paul definitely
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: tried to get him, but very quickly the stories seemed
• 35:20
  Speaker 7: to fall apart.
• 35:21
  Speaker 9: And.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Gigi, you actually thought that somebody else killed Paul and
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Maggie and they were after Alex Smart You really thought
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: that for a minute.
• 35:34
  Speaker 7: Well, at the time, I thought, why would anybody just
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: shoot him on the side of the road. I didn't
• 35:40
  Speaker 7: think it didn't even compute that he had set this up.
• 35:42
  Speaker 10: I mean, it's almost unbelievable to think that. So for
• 35:45
  Speaker 10: a hot minute, yeah, I thought.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, your screened did you see that? Can
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I see his head again? There's the injury. I can't
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: even see it.
• 35:56
  Speaker 10: Yeah, my kids got seen when they were little.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, there was this one time my son scraped
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: his knee and it was worse than that. So he
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: actually bamboozled you because when I heard he was shot
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: in the head. But when I heard the nine one one,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: he's perfectly lucid. The first thing I thought was, now,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: how did Murdoch arrange to be shot on a rural
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: road to make it look like the real killer's wandering
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: around out there?
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: That was my first thought. And guess what, that is exactly.
• 36:29
  Speaker 10: An accurate right.
• 36:31
  Speaker 7: And after I heard that nine one one call, I said,
• 36:33
  Speaker 7: oh no, no, no, this was set up. But just
• 36:36
  Speaker 7: for a second, you hear, you know, our local news
• 36:38
  Speaker 7: comes across and says, you know, Elec Murdoch shot on
• 36:41
  Speaker 7: the side of the road.
• 36:42
  Speaker 10: I thought, oh man, they got him.
• 36:44
  Speaker 7: But after hearing that nine one one call, I said,
• 36:46
  Speaker 7: oh no, this was an inside job.
• 36:48
  Speaker 10: He knew exactly who did it, and he set it up.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Alex Murdock, a once notable member of the South Carolina bar,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: partner in a law firm, multiple homes, beautiful family is
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: now seeking over half a million dollars in damages against
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: the court clerk Becky Hill, claiming she tried to sway
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: the jury to find him guilty of killing his wife,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Maggie and son Paul. Well, he did murder them, Okay,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: that's a given. The evidence was overwhelming and the jury agreed.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: His lawsuit comes just after our South Carolina Supreme Court
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: overturned his conviction, finding that Beaky Hill had quote placed
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: her fingers on the scales of justice.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: But does he have a right to sue her.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Civilly and get over half a million dollars? That will
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: be the question. I'm more concerned about a true verdict.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: This case is going to have to be retried. And
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: here are some of the facts to Mark Pepper joining
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: US veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction. My whole point,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: why do I care about him having himself shot on
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: the side of the road just enough to make it
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: look bad? S O d D. Some other dude did it.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: He's going to try the same thing from what I hear,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: and they may rethink this. They should. They're going to
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: try to blame some other dude for doing it. Somebody
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: else shot Paul and Maggie. Same thing as getting shot
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: on the side of the road. Some other dude did it.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Turns out to be his wonky cousin. That's some other
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: dude that he paid to do it. So are they
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: really going to go down that road?
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: Pepper, Well, I don't think they have a choice at
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: this point. You know, you're trying to create reasonable doubt.
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: One way to do it is to point to third
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: party guilt. Yeah, I stay within the laws and the
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: confines of our constitutional rules of evidence. But yeah, some
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: other dude did it is always a valid defense. We
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: know cousin Eddie's out there. We've got other you know,
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: drug smuggling operations with this OPIU addiction out there. I
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: think we're going to see a different type of defense
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: put on here in this next retrial. Some other dude
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: did it will play at some point in this trial.
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: They've got everything they need to do it. They've got
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: the cousin Ettie, they've got all the characters. You've got
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: other you know victims out there. You've got these bad
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: actors down to the Walterborough all the way down to
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: Hampton County, Beaufort County. There's plenty of other people who
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: potentially had opportunity, now motive, that's gonna be tough to convince.
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: Clearly Alec would be the one that had the most motive,
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: But certainly that is going to be a defense in
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: this retrial. Some other dude did it?
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: What dude?
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Let me see his face while he spins out this
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: big lie. Hold on, what dude?
• 39:45
  Speaker 9: You like?
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: You know what? This is a compliment?
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Did you ever read to your children Rumpel stills Ken
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Do you remember that imp that could take straw and
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: spin it into gold? That's what Hart Poutleyan does. That's
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: what you're doing right now.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: What other dude?
• 40:02
  Speaker 9: What?
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Some other dude?
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: Well, the beauty of it doesn't matter that that's the
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: beauty of the trial system.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Nancy reasonable to give me a Kleenex.
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: Well, look, that's what good criminal defense lawyers do, given
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: just anybody will do. Well, you just' you're trying to
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: prevent twelve reasonably minded people from convicting your client beyond
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: reasonable doubt. You don't have to come up with names,
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: you don't have to come up with places and who
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: they are and how they did it. You've just got
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: to create the reasonable doubt by pointing to someone other
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: than the guy sitting in the defense chair next to you.
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: I mean, that's how those things play out, and that's
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: what we criminal defense lawyers do, and do quite well
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: here in South Coming.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I bet you do. You know I've got a question
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: based on what you just said. I can see Hart
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Poutlan spinning in out and blaming some body, somebody that
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: would want to kill Maggie and Paul. But then suddenly
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: it got complicated. Dave mac alan o wood a tangled
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: web we weave when first we practice to deceive Dave
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: mac because in his ill fated effort to pretend the
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: real killer was out there and tried to kill him
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: on the side of the road, what he has done
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: now is forever poison his well and telling a jury
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: some other dude did it, uh huh, because he's already
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: tried that once. And I can just hear the prosecution
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: shooting a torpedo into the some other dude did it defense.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: And that is where the defense is headed. As Pepper
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: pointed out, they may not have any choice. They're working
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: with what they've got. But he's already gone to that well,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: he's already been there. How can he with a straight
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: face claim Again, some other dude did it, Dave matt Again,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: back to the death penalty. A lot is riding on this.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: The state now announcing they are considering the death penalty
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: on Alex Murdock and Dave Mack. You and I have
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: analyzed this many many times. The aggravating circumstances required for
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: the death penalty, Dave, such as mass murder more than
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: one body qualifies as mass murder under the law. Here
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: we've got two lying in wait. He lured Maggie and
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Paul to Moselle the hunting lodge, and he lay in
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: wait for the right moment to murder them. Also pecuniary
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: or money interest. His whole point in killing them was
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: he did not want his financial crimes to the tune
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: of twelve million dollars to be exposed as they would
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: in a divorce or a civil lawsuit against him and
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: his son Paul. So, long story short, aggravating circumstances, Dave
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: mac you and I covered it the first time. It's
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: teeming with death penalty aggravation.
• 43:16
  Speaker 13: Nancy, You're dead on right. Everything that is needed to
• 43:20
  Speaker 13: try this as a death penalty case is right there.
• 43:24
  Speaker 13: When you look at the financial motive, the idea that
• 43:28
  Speaker 13: everything in his world was falling apart financially, I mean,
• 43:32
  Speaker 13: it was all there. On top of that, he knew
• 43:36
  Speaker 13: there was more damage financially and otherwise coming from a
• 43:40
  Speaker 13: possible trial about Paul's at boat crash. So all of
• 43:44
  Speaker 13: these negatives are stepping up. And you know, the one
• 43:47
  Speaker 13: thing that's not being mentioned, Nancy, is that Maggie was
• 43:52
  Speaker 13: not staying at Moselle. She was at the beach house.
• 43:54
  Speaker 13: She was not even she did not want to be
• 43:57
  Speaker 13: around her husband anymore, and he he had to lure
• 44:02
  Speaker 13: her back from the beach house to come to Mozelle
• 44:05
  Speaker 13: that night. And it plays out the digital evidence is
• 44:09
  Speaker 13: there that what took place that night, how it took place,
• 44:12
  Speaker 13: and all of motivation to match up for what's needed
• 44:15
  Speaker 13: in a death penalty case. It's right there.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Gg McKelvey joining us out of this jurisdiction South Carolina
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: investigative journalists and star of Pretty Lies and alibis Gigi,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: what are the betting odds that the state's going to
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: see the death penalty?
• 44:31
  Speaker 10: I think it's a very good chance.
• 44:34
  Speaker 7: Just like what was just mentioned, is it does check
• 44:38
  Speaker 7: all the aggravating factors, and I think that that Alan Wilson.
• 44:41
  Speaker 10: You know a lot of.
• 44:42
  Speaker 7: People have said, is this a political move because this
• 44:45
  Speaker 7: re election year, But I do think that they will
• 44:48
  Speaker 7: go for the death penalty just to just to really
• 44:51
  Speaker 7: sock it to him for having to do this twice,
• 44:55
  Speaker 7: and also because of what was done to Maggie and
• 44:57
  Speaker 7: Paul and how egregious it was.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Vegas odds are very slim, but pointing to the state,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: we'll seek the death penalty against Alex Murdoch if you
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: believe a gambling outfit. That said, the first time around,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: we were told that because there had been a moratorium
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: of sorts on the death penalty in South Carolina, it
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: hadn't been sought for thirteen years, that there was no
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: point in seeking it because it couldn't be obtained. Well
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: that has changed. Let's see if the state follows through
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: on the double murders of Maggie and Paul, and one
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: more time to doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Crowns, could you
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: re enlighten us refresh our recollections on what happened to
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: Paul and Maggie.
• 45:53
  Speaker 8: So again, Maggie had five gunshot wounds about her body,
• 45:58
  Speaker 8: two of which one in the abdomen one in the thigh,
• 46:01
  Speaker 8: had gunpowder stippling or gunpowder tattooing, which means they occurred
• 46:05
  Speaker 8: anywhere from two to six inches to two to three feet,
• 46:08
  Speaker 8: so the gun was in intermediate range when it was
• 46:11
  Speaker 8: shot at them. One of the wounds was to the
• 46:13
  Speaker 8: back of her head that entered into her skull and
• 46:16
  Speaker 8: went into her brain and would have killed her. So
• 46:19
  Speaker 8: it does appear that she was shot down, shot to
• 46:22
  Speaker 8: her knees, and then executed with the gunshot wound being
• 46:26
  Speaker 8: put into the back of her head. She does also
• 46:28
  Speaker 8: have a wound to her left wrist, which could be
• 46:31
  Speaker 8: her trying to block being shot at the time it
• 46:35
  Speaker 8: was all occurring. The Sun has two shotgun injuries, one
• 46:40
  Speaker 8: to the chest that comes into his chest and blows
• 46:43
  Speaker 8: out of the armpit, and then one that comes into
• 46:46
  Speaker 8: the neck and then blows out the top of his head,
• 46:48
  Speaker 8: taking out a large portion of his brain. So they
• 46:52
  Speaker 8: were both shot multiple times and with different weapons, one
• 46:56
  Speaker 8: with a high powered rifle, the other with a shotgun.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: The state will have to give a clear and convincing
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: reason under the law as to why it is seeking
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: the death penalty second time around when it didn't the
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: first time around.
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: To ensure to a.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Court satisfaction that they are not seeking the death penalty
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: out of punishment for Alex Murdog appealing and getting a
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: new trial. I believe they can carry that burden. Becky
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Hill admitted she used her position to push the sales
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: of her books about the trial, but did she truly
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: affect the jury's verdict? I believe firmly the South Carolina
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court did what it had to do based on
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: the comments alone, whether she intended them to sway the
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: jury or not, whether they were just off in comments
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: or even jokes the comments were made. I firmly believe
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: the evidence was overwhelming and the jury would have found
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: him guilty anyway. We wait as just the Sunfoalds Nancy
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Grace crime stories signing up.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Goodbye m hmm