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Mark's 11am Monologue. · The Mark Simone Show

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  Speaker 1: Now on sevent ten wo wall no Mark Simon show
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  Speaker 1: in for Mark today. Here's Jim Ker and Mark is
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  Speaker 1: enjoying his vacation and I'm enjoying the opportunity to spend
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  Speaker 1: time with you Mark Simone's listeners, his family of radio
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  Speaker 1: friends on seven ten woar you know. To participate in
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  Speaker 1: the show, you can call eight hundred and three two
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  Speaker 1: one zero seven ten and we have on the telephone
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  Speaker 1: with us right now. Doctor Catherine Ramslin, who is a
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  Speaker 1: world renowned expert on what it is that makes murderers tick.
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  Speaker 1: She's the author of I believe sixty eight books, doctor,
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  Speaker 1: would that be write sixty eight books?
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  Speaker 2: Seventy four?
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  Speaker 1: Seventy four books? Okay, I'm not completely up to date.
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  Speaker 1: Then seventy four books. She writes about crime and forensic science.
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  Speaker 1: Assistant Provost and Professor Emerita of Forensic Psychology and Criminal
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  Speaker 1: Justice at the Sales University. You have not only studied
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  Speaker 1: people who kill people for fun and enjoyment, for whatever
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  Speaker 1: reason it is that they choose to do such a
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  Speaker 1: horrible thing, but you've actually had an opportunity to get
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  Speaker 1: to know some of them, and I know that you've
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  Speaker 1: written about it quite often. And you're often interviewed on
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  Speaker 1: television when this subject comes up. And here in New
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  Speaker 1: York City, of course, Luigi Mangioni is accused of killing
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  Speaker 1: the United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. And there are let
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  Speaker 1: me put it this way, this is the only way
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  Speaker 1: I can say it. There are very attractive, young, well
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  Speaker 1: educated women who go to that courtroom who seem to
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  Speaker 1: be in love with him. Why does that happen? And
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  Speaker 1: how often does it happen?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it happens for a variety of reds, depending on
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  Speaker 2: the person we're talking about, But quite often they have
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  Speaker 2: framed him according to what they want to see him
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  Speaker 2: to be, lacking in information about why he would have
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  Speaker 2: done this, or really that much about his background, so
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  Speaker 2: they can easily fill in what they need him to
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  Speaker 2: be for their own fantasies. And so they see him
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  Speaker 2: as sort of an activist, an underdog against the big
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  Speaker 2: goliath of corporate greed, and this kind of sexy hero
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  Speaker 2: in a way, and that just makes them more excited
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  Speaker 2: about him. He's handsome, he's educated, he's dignified, he's defiant.
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  Speaker 2: That's a very attractive combination.
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  Speaker 1: But he's also allegedly a murderer, Yes, a killer, a person.
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  Speaker 2: Who they see righteous violence.
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  Speaker 1: There's right.
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  Speaker 2: Some of them have talked about, Yeah, some of them
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  Speaker 2: have talked about he's justified and that we need to
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  Speaker 2: serve this conversation about the healthcare companies and how they've
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  Speaker 2: victimized us, and so they see him as more like
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  Speaker 2: a kind of a Robin Hood, except he's not really
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  Speaker 2: giving anything back. Right.
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  Speaker 1: Well, well, isn't it. Isn't it possible for we as
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  Speaker 1: a society to have conversations about the healthcare crisis in
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  Speaker 1: the country, which obviously does exist. There are a lot
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  Speaker 1: of people who face great frustrations just in their day
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  Speaker 1: to day life trying to negotiate our healthcare system. It
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  Speaker 1: certainly needs a bit of an overhaul. Can't we have
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  Speaker 1: conversations like that without murdering a man in cold blood
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  Speaker 1: on the street in Manhattan early in the morning, shot
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  Speaker 1: in the back, on his way to a meeting, And
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  Speaker 1: these women said, I'm saying blank, Brian Thompson, I don't
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  Speaker 1: give a blank. He died. That's one of them said,
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  Speaker 1: his children are better off without him. They need to
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  Speaker 1: learn to not be like their dad. I mean, that's
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  Speaker 1: just despicable.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's easy to elevate Luigi when you vilify his victim.
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  Speaker 2: So it isn't that they know anything about Brian Thompson.
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  Speaker 2: He's a symbol to them, and he's a symbol of
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  Speaker 2: bad things. And yes, we can have a conversation, but
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  Speaker 2: we're not having the conversation. So something like this shakes
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  Speaker 2: people up and realizes, you know, there's a lot at stake.
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  Speaker 2: And I think that's what goes into the sense of
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  Speaker 2: these women feeling justified in taking his side and supporting him.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's not just taking his side, doctor, They lust
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  Speaker 1: for him.
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  Speaker 2: They left for him, Yes, because he's a good looking
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  Speaker 2: young man who in their minds they might want to
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  Speaker 2: be his girlfriend, or they might want to take care
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  Speaker 2: of him, or they might just want to share in
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  Speaker 2: his notoriety, depending on who they are. But yes, he
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  Speaker 2: has become a fantasy meme in some of these places.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's take a Luigi Mangioni out of the
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  Speaker 1: picture right now. There have been other like death cults
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  Speaker 1: that have surrounded the lives of vicious murderers, serial killers
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  Speaker 1: that are not necessarily seen by some segment of the population,
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  Speaker 1: as as you know, being Robin Hood like, and we're
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  Speaker 1: talking about just horrible, vicious killers that have young women
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  Speaker 1: as fans.
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  Speaker 2: Well, sometimes it's what we call a pair ophelia or
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  Speaker 2: a sexual deviance of young women even men too, who
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  Speaker 2: get excited by violence. But that's a that's a pretty
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  Speaker 2: rare condition. What they're doing is projecting onto typically good
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  Speaker 2: looking people who are outlaws, who are defying social moraism
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  Speaker 2: and laws and whatnot. And they see similar to the
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  Speaker 2: the you know, Jesse James and al Capone and some
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  Speaker 2: of the some of these people they're larger than life,
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  Speaker 2: and there are people who just want to be part
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  Speaker 2: of it. They want to be with Luigi, they want
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  Speaker 2: to be Bonnie to his Clyde. They want to be
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  Speaker 2: part of that whole thing because it's exciting and it
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  Speaker 2: defies things that they feel need to need to be divid.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, now this this killer fandom does does the do
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  Speaker 1: do ugly killers get cults and fans too? Or they're
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  Speaker 1: just out of law they're famous? Okay, so fame, So
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  Speaker 1: fame can because I was just thinking, is it just
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  Speaker 1: because these killers are handsome? Or in some cases, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you know, there have been.
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  Speaker 2: Some some is notoriety and some of these what we
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  Speaker 2: call groupies, only go for serial killers. Some will go
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  Speaker 2: for anyone, like let's say Scott Peterson, who has had
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  Speaker 2: a certain amount of fame and they want to be
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  Speaker 2: attached to that. Some will go for a guy that
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  Speaker 2: makes them feel like they can be caretakers, so they
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  Speaker 2: think about the little boy. And also women, by the way,
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  Speaker 2: there are female offenders who draw male fans too. It's
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  Speaker 2: not nearly as much as we see with young women
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  Speaker 2: going for these male offenders, but it's a wide variety
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  Speaker 2: of people.
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  Speaker 1: And you've been studying this well, practically your whole life,
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  Speaker 1: since you began your academic career going to college as
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  Speaker 1: as a young woman.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, about three decades.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you travel all over the place speaking to
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  Speaker 1: two groups, attending seminars and symposiums and and what is
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  Speaker 1: the name of your latest book.
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  Speaker 2: The serial Killers Apprentice, which is about an accomplice, the
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  Speaker 2: only accomplice to have killed the adult predator to end
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  Speaker 2: this spree.
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  Speaker 1: The serial You mean, there's never been a are all?
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  Speaker 1: I guess the question is, are all serial killers people
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  Speaker 1: who work alone?
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  Speaker 2: There's there's never It's hard to generalize to all serious
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  Speaker 2: they're not. But about twenty percent work with somebody else,
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  Speaker 2: and sometimes more than one. Like this particular serial killer,
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  Speaker 2: Dean Coral had two adolescent accomplices. We've seen four and five,
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  Speaker 2: but but majority tend to work alone.
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  Speaker 1: They were adolescent accomplices.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh so that's there's quite a few of Mostly
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  Speaker 2: they these predators tar get adolescents or vulnerable, needy young
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  Speaker 2: women because it's easier to control them. So the.
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  Speaker 1: People who assist the serial killers they were young women.
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  Speaker 2: There are a lot of young women either they've been
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  Speaker 2: married to them or involved with them romantically, and now
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  Speaker 2: they're afraid to lose them, so they'll do whatever the
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  Speaker 2: guy says. They're called compliant accomplishes. They don't really want
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  Speaker 2: to do this, but they're going to so they don't
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  Speaker 2: lose the guy.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, that is really scary. So that's The serial Killer's Apprentice.
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  Speaker 1: That's your latest book, and that's available just through the
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  Speaker 1: normal channels for buying books.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, okay, it actually became an HBO documentary as well.
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  Speaker 1: Oh it did. That's right, I forgot. You also are
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  Speaker 1: a consultant to a lot of television shows. Yep, can
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  Speaker 1: you name a few?
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  Speaker 2: Well, that one the serial Kills Apprentice. I did a
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  Speaker 2: four part documentary on a book I wrote with the
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  Speaker 2: BDK killer, Dennis Raider, and so that's called Conversations with
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  Speaker 2: serial Killer. I came out with my own show, Murder
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  Speaker 2: House Flip, which was a great experience. Had a couple
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  Speaker 2: of steasons for that. I'm consultant CSI Bones and the Alienist.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Well it's an impressive body of work.
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  Speaker 1: Seventy four books and a professor and what a doctor?
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  Speaker 1: You have a doctorate? And is it three or four
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  Speaker 1: master's degrees?
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  Speaker 2: Four?
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  Speaker 1: Four? Four master's degrees? Okay, Doctor Catherine Ramslan, thank you
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  Speaker 1: so much for spending time with us here on Mark
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  Speaker 1: Simone Show at WOR. I appreciate it.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. Pretty fascinating, huh. I mean the way that she
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  Speaker 1: mentions that she has a book, The serial Killer's Apprentice,
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  Speaker 1: which is about people who help serial killers, male serial killers,
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  Speaker 1: and it turns out that they're young women who wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: necessarily make a conscious choice to enter into that kind
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  Speaker 1: of life. But after getting involved with those people, they
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  Speaker 1: become helpful, even though they become aware that what that
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  Speaker 1: person is doing is terribly evil and horribly violent. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it's just it's a part of life that quite frankly,
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  Speaker 1: I have a very difficult time wrapping my head around,
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  Speaker 1: as I imagine you do as well. So anyway, I
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  Speaker 1: want to thank doctor Catherine Ramslin again for taking the
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  Speaker 1: time to spend with us here on Radio seven to
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  Speaker 1: ten wor. Mark Simone is on vacation. I'm Jim Kerr.
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  Speaker 1: I appreciate the fact that he asked me, Well, it
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  Speaker 1: was last week. He asked me if I would come in.
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  Speaker 1: He needed somebody to fill in for a day, and
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  Speaker 1: so I said sure, Mark, and I am happy to
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  Speaker 1: be here with you.
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  Speaker 2: Now.
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  Speaker 1: Remember if you want to participate in the show, you
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  Speaker 1: always can by calling eight hundred three to two one
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  Speaker 1: zero seven ten. That's eight hundred three two one zero
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  Speaker 1: seven ten. Now coming up for you, we have a
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  Speaker 1: couple of New York City centric topics that I hope
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  Speaker 1: we'll be able to get into during the show this morning.
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  Speaker 1: And then a person who well we were rivals for
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  Speaker 1: years and years and years and years and years on
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  Speaker 1: the radio in New York in the morning, Scott Shannon,
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  Speaker 1: will join us. Now, I know you probably know Scott
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  Speaker 1: because he's a regular contributor to Mark Simon Show here
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  Speaker 1: on WOR. For those of you who don't know me,
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  Speaker 1: Scott and I were on opposite each other on competing
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  Speaker 1: radio stations in the morning for decades here in New
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  Speaker 1: York City, and it's going to be a pleasure to
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  Speaker 1: be able to spend some time on the air with him.
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  Speaker 1: That's coming up for you later this hour, right here
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  Speaker 1: on the Voice to New York Radio seven ten WO
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  Speaker 1: R