Latest / The Science of Skin / Dr. Isabelle Raymond, senior VP of clinical and medical affairs, discusses how Nutrafol leveraged their expertise in supplements to create Nutrafol Skin for women with acne-prone skin.

Transcript

Dr. Isabelle Raymond, senior VP of clinical and medical affairs, discusses how Nutrafol leveraged their expertise in supplements to create Nutrafol Skin for women with acne-prone skin. · The Science of Skin

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Patty Ferris.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a board certified dermatologist, and I'm your host for this episode of Skin Care Confidential.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: For those of you who have been listening, you know that this is a podcast primarily about skincare, and we designed this really to give our listeners a 360 view of the skincare industry.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: But today I'm super excited because we're actually going to be talking about something that we've never covered on the podcast before.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And as I always say, nutraceuticals or supplements are the new cosmetics.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to be talking about cosmoceuticals and nutraceuticals with an expert, Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Isabel Raymond.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: She's the senior vice president of medical and clinical affairs at Neutrafol.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know what Nutrafol is, I don't know how, you might be living under a rock.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it is the number one recommended supplement for patients with thinning hair.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it is really, has taken the market by storm and really changed the way we approach patients with hair loss.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to talk about all of that with Isabel.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: But let me read her bio for just a second.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: She's an author and a scientific leader in the wellness industry with in-depth knowledge of functions and interactions within the pharmaceutical, biotech, and beauty and well-being companies.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: She received her master's and PhD.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I knew you were smart.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're something else.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: In biomedical science from the University of Montreal.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: She's authored over 70 publications and textbook chapters and books.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm exhausted as well.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And several therapeutic fields, including aesthetic medicine, dermatology, sleep disorders, and pain management.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you've been around the block, girl.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: She is, she is super we're we're super excited to have her here today because she really is changing the way that we treat patients in dermatology.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's worth saying to begin with that our patients are interested in nutraceuticals.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Consumers are interested in alternatives to medications.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is really sort of the sweet spot where the first neutrafol products really hit, and that was in hair thinning.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about this for just a second.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Neutrafol really pioneered this category, as you well know.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about you know what's your take on the growth that we're seeing in the cosmetic industry in this nutraceutical marketplace.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for having me, number one.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for including me in this podcast.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've been waiting to be a part of it for a long time.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So super thrilled to be here.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and talk about this because, you know, as you read from my background, I come from a different background than wellness and supplements.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's been an evolution through the years of these products gaining more traction.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the reason why is because people are also looking for something different than treatments.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: They want to maintain health, they want to maintain their skin, they want to maintain their hair.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're looking at optimizing healthy conditions versus treating once conditions start, right?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think supplements are one of those ways to do that.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And with studies behind them, I think also there's been an evolution, and neutral has been on the forefront of this is really being able to provide science needed to support these because it's not always there.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think because uh of regulations and how they're processed through the FDA, it's just a little bit different than um than cosmetics and drugs, and so not knowing sometimes how they're made or where they're coming from and not having the same labels.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have PIs, right?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so really understanding what's behind the products and having that, I think, is also very helpful for to gain that trust, to gain that understanding, and also for physicians and dermatologists to be able to buy into Neutrophil.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what uh happened with them, and and really there it was a good timing because uh, as you said, consumers are looking for this and they just came with the right answers from the get-go.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one thing that was really interesting was how they approached hair thinning and hair loss really with more of a holistic approach, like a whole system approach.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So talk about that framework, because I think that was what really changed the dermatologist's mind about using a supplement.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, and I think it's it's again approaching um any kind of how what does your hair mean?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And healthy hair is or hair is related to your health and not just your genetics.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, think about your environment and what you put yourself through.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so really understanding, really going back into, you know, the founders really did most of this job, you know, in 2015, going out there and and really showing the studies of related conditions with hair.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So talk about the you know, the gut microbiome, talking about stress, talking about all these things on a daily basis that can feed into hair health.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you you you take these ingredients to help support that, it will eventually help uh support healthy hair.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's not just waiting for hair thinning and though, okay, here we have these treatments for it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's trying to maintain that and really understanding and connecting the dots between health and hair.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about a little bit about the um standardized botanicals, because I don't think that's a term that many are probably familiar with.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes they're not always related, right?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: People assume, you know, botanicals, they'll they'll take them in different forms, and there's not a lot of science behind the amounts in in each in each capsule, right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what we we have, you know, over 20 ingredients in each one of our products that are you know have vitamins, minerals, botanicals, natural ingredients, and so it's really um uh different ingredients in each capsule.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the standardization comes from ensuring that the amounts that you get, or that you know, when we do our raw materials, we make sure that we have what we're supposed to be having and we do quote do quality testing and all of that.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: That again um people don't are not always aware of and are are not thinking that supplements have to do these um these quality testing, but you do, and it's having that standardization maintains and makes sure that you can have the amounts needed or the servings needed each time you take the product so that it just ensures consistency.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's so much that goes into it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mentioned um a little bit earlier that it is the number one supplement recommended by dermatologists for patients with thinning hair or hair loss.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Talk a little bit about the studies because I think that's really what set Neutrophil apart from all the clutter that's in the marketplace, and God knows there's lots of products out there for consumers to pick from and dermatologists to recommend.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot, exactly.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really understanding what goes behind.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So not only do you have to have ingredients that are quality ingredients that are standardized that go through the process of you know safety and all those things, but then it's like do these products work?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of companies out there who will do, if they do make claims, will make claims on ingredients from the manufacturers, and they don't put the time and effort into doing full clinical studies on the products because that's not required.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so investing money in clinical studies, as we know, is very it's expensive, it's time consuming.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to hair studies, it's it's very difficult because you have to have you know the the equipment, you have to do hair counts, and so it's exhaustive and um and and expensive.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so the fact that the company has done over now, I think we're at over 14 clinical studies on our products really is is immense.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's what gives me a job, which makes me super happy, keeps me busy.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: But also it helps, and and you know, it's not just looking at placebo control, really trying to look at uh will this product work in different you know, hair types, different people.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's a commitment that they've made to really ensure that the full formulation is studied uh in the best shape possible.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also publish them in peer-reviewed journals, as you know.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to make sure that we go through that process to have that rigor that you would hope you would see in in pharma, but you know, we're not mandated to do that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the fact that we do it just goes to show that we put you know ourselves behind our products and we also invest uh to you know to find hopefully new um new potential, new avenues, new things to um new conditions to look at.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really helpful to be able to have that clinical data to provide that um reassurance, I get, I guess, to to Durhams and to HCPs.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think another interesting thing that the company has done and where they've really met the consumer right where they need to be is identifying subgroups.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: For example, the postmenopausal female, the you know, postpartal female.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, talk a little bit about how do you tweak these formulas.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you start with your sort of basic women's and basic men's, and then you really branched out and found, like I said, you met the consumer right at the intersection between the problems they were having and a solution they were looking for.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it helps, thank you.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really part of like thinking that not everyone's gonna go through the same things in life and understanding the biology of women and men as as they go through these changes in life.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your needs are not going to be the same, especially if, you know, your hair again is a representation of your health.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your body's gonna need certain things at different times, especially for women.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And these have all been developed with physicians, which is really great.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we've worked, we've partnered with dermatologists and OBGYNs to really understand the needs and which ingredients to do best.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think our our our menopause, our women's balance, was one of those examples that with derms who were saying, well, you know, they they should need more of this because um, you know, more salt palmetto.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so instead of just saying you can take the men's version for women who are who are older going through menopause, they said let's actually formulate something specifically for menopause.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So adding that salt palmetto, but also what other ingredients could help mitigate um menopause.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was a way of approaching it.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So every life stage that we look at, we really try to think about all of the root causes, even if they're similar throughout life, like which ones are going to be more taxing during that time and what can we do to best formulate for that time period?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so you I know you added Maka to the to the balance formula for post-menopausal females.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: How did you tweak for the postpartal female patient?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, postpartum was a completely different formula because we wanted to make sure that we could have ingredients that were breastfeeding friendly, and that was a challenge on its own.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, I can imagine.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we wanted to make sure we provided something, but because there's not a lot of studies on uh on breastfeeding women, on safety, so we had to, you know, we did a lot of homework.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we worked with experts, we worked with OBs, we worked with uh nutritionists and uh herbalists and an Ayurvedic practitioners, really, to get, you know, what has been done, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about these, there's these galactagogs, these herbs, these botanicals that have been used to help with uh breastfeeding, um, you know, you're like, okay, well, that's a clue that that can be helped.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Those are ingredients would be safe.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we can't say they're safe because we haven't seen them for they're friendly, they are friendly.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we use them at a at servings that were not meant to be galactigogs, but we know they had effects on the root causes during that time.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, so and doing all the safety evaluations.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it was more from a safety standpoint, and really I think what I love about Neutrophil is that they they don't stop, they they're not shy about pushing the boundaries to study populations that have been not really studied before, or just, oh, well, you know, you gotta deal with it.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna give, you know, you it's expected.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna have a baby, it's expected to lose your, you know, to have thinning, and and why can't you do anything for it?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they're just pushing back and saying, well, what why can't we offer something?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think same for menopause, a talking about it, number one, and reminding people, you know, hair thinning is part of menopause.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about it and develop something for it.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I love that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love that.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love that too.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And postmenopausal females are such a disregarded, you know, population in general.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so there's so many problems that come up postmenopausal, and and hair thinning is a huge part of it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's an and I'm sure that's been a big successful product, and I know um the same with postpartal females.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we would normally just say you have telogen eplubium and it takes three months, but you know what?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times it doesn't take three months.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some people really go into a protracted efflubium and they those people are looking for answers.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: How how do most people use the supplements in their practice?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um monotherapy, combination therapy?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have sort of an idea of how practitioners use them?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, it's I think it's definitely evolved over time.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think at the beginning there was, you know, like anything, there was skepticism, you know, especially, you know, when we didn't have all these studies.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And now I just think it's become part of the routine.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, talking to people like you and other uh experts, dermatologists, they just, you know, A, it's important to understand the root causes.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's a nice way to engage with their patients.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And also, um, you know, my understanding is any kind of hair thinning issue, you throw the kitchen sink at it.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is a nice first step to really address the root causes.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And because we're looking at a more of a holistic uh integrative approach, it's not uh localized, and so it should support everything that you are doing beyond um beyond that that holistic approach.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, any kind of medications, BRP.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no there's no reason why it would not be part of that or imitarium of um of treatments.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, consumers seek them out.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're looking for alternatives because unfortunately most of the medications we use do have side effects.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people who have gone through, especially for the men, I think there's a lot more side effects coming, coming, you know, and I'm reading all about them, and it's uh I think they're a little bit scarce, so thinking that it's that or nothing.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a just a nice way to um to provide something, some kind of support um as they go through this journey and and even alongside if they're not seeing any side effects.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about your newest venture.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you as you move away from hair thinning and hair loss into skin and how did you sort of mirror the framework that you use so successfully for hair with the skin supplement, which again is such a great idea.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you're gonna do all the right things in terms of studies.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about that.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: But how did you all use that same framework?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first, I mean, it was I'm so excited.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm this is one of the products I'm one of most excited about uh for many reasons, because when I first joined Neutrophil, which is my four-year anniversary today.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, really?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been there.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about them when I was reading bio, I'm like, how long has she been with Neutroph?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just before the pandemic, two weeks before.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was kind of crazy.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what a journey it's been going through all of that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and when I first started, I was like, why don't we do something for skin?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, some of the founders, Roland, as you you know him well, he he said, you know, we have a lot of people who are a lot of derms who are seeing these anecdotal evidence of you know skin improving and they want to do IIT, like an investor-initiated trial on uh just to see how the skin improves.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were hearing, and then um, but you know, of course, with the pandemic and other things, we just kind of didn't have the bandwidth.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so these were patients taking hair.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, they were taking the hair that they were and that the dermatologist was noticing improvements in their skin.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this is very anecdotally, this wasn't studied.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, some of our questionnaire studies, we did ask that, and so it kind of you know made sense, and then other team members joined and they kept pushing the company like you really start need to start looking at this, but because it's such a hair-focused company, it's like, how do we, how do we, you know, we should be focusing on hair?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you think about well, we're focusing on the root causes, and if hair is a is a reflection of your health, and so is your skin, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so looking at these overlapping mechanisms and just doing now two and a half years of of research and putting this idea together, and really, you know, if we were gonna do it, we had to do it well.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had to convince, you know, the the executives to to really let us go in that direction.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so it started with like really looking at the studies.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, really what they did for hair, we looked at skin the same way, and then looking at the ingredients, and we formulated, and then we had ad boards and we met with you know, you guys, and what do you think?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's been a work in progress.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's really kind of we're really thrilled, A, to be able to share all the basic mechanisms, mechanisms behind these root causes.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's gonna be a little more of a challenge for skin, I think, because for hair, there was very few um solutions for for hair thinning.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: When for acne, there's a lot.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's it's a crowded market, and so we really have to have an approach of like how we're how we're different and how the root causes that we're gonna target are different.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's not really a competition with other other products or other uh or drugs or our or topicals.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It really is a different way of approaching acne in general.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's our first challenge of of publishing the data and and supporting that and and talking to dermatologists and asking them to, we invite them to look at acne, uh approach acne in a different way.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it, you know, when you're changing a paradigm, Isabelle, it's hollow because doctors have, you know, it was kind of like when we started with hair.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we were used to looking at the microenvironment and the testosterone and the, you know, well, inflammation around the follicle.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then we started expanding and thinking more holistically about the whole body.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing with with acne.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those publications are gonna really speak to the science behind the formulation, but talk a little bit about the formulation and some of the sort of interesting botanicals that will be incorporated into it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's or I should say have been incorporated into this.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, they have been.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so we are.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: As I have it sitting on my desk.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, blue, by the way.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hair is blue for those who don't know.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love the blue.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's it's a brand new color.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's just such a different, it's bringing a new life into the company, I ever think, because A, it's bringing us back to our roots, you know, pun intended, about really trying to approach a condition in a different way.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's going to take convincing.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think our first two publications that are coming out in or have already come out in JDD are really going to support that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I encourage people to really read that because that is just supporting a paradigm shift to look at acne in a different way.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Again, a complimentary way.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're not saying don't look at acne the way you have before, but just you know, be open to potentially other ways that could contribute to um to acne.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so, again, this is all non-cystic acne because we're supplements.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we're targeting mild to moderate with these ingredients.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's you know, doing that fun research of what is out there in terms of ingredients, now that we know the root causes, now that we've identified those, then it's what ingredients do we have to support either those root causes or patients with acne with those ingredients.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so doing that full research, that lit review of um, because you know, a lot of botanicals they don't have a lot of studies in them.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I know it was a big it was a big job to it's a challenge to find, you know, and show the safety and efficacy of these.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are some great studies out there, um, you know, with zinc, uh, you know, you have your typical, uh, your typical ingredients that are part of the AED guidelines that they mention, you know, but they've all always been these single ingredients.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really hard to do that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Single ingredient studies.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Single ingredient studies to show, you know, you know, comparison or or in combination with.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's a decent approach.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, we're at we're challenging, like we're gonna put a lot of these ingredients, like in the neutrophil way, over 20 uh, you know, vitamins, minerals, uh, these botanicals that are specific for these root causes.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about metabolism, we're talking about uh gut microbiome, skin microbiome.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So really, and and by combining all of them, you know, the theory would be that by combining them you would see uh a synergistic effect or something beyond just one ingredient, and uh very happy to to share that even by studying the formulation totally, then we do see some pretty great results.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh more to come on that.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, so these ingredients are anything from conjac root to berberine, um, and they're just they're they're very interesting, and and we're happy to share all of those details in those publications.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so it's it's so interesting.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think dermatologists are more open to this now, especially as we've begun to look at the gut, brain, skin connection, and now we're talking more about nutrition and we're talking about avoidance of foods that can flare acne.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think derms are, again, really looking for these more holistic approaches because we know that all these things are important.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um acne doesn't exist just in the pylosubaceous unit.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's inflammation in the body that can occur when you get gut dysbiosis.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: We know that that's a factor.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: We know that obviously the skin microbiome is affected with certain strains of cutie bacterium acne.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I think it's just also fascinating.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, watching you all kind of piece together all these pieces of the puzzle uh to give uh the I guess we'll say the consumers this option for something that they could use either in combination with traditional therapies or also use as monotherapy if they're uh reticent to take medications.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have a lot of side effects with a lot of what we take, and we can't discount antibiotic resistance, which is a huge problem that we unfortunately as dermatologists contribute to.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: We love to throw that doxycycline around and the minacyclenes.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, they work so well.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And of course you have isotretinoin where some patients can't take for whatever reason, which again is a fantastic medication, but not without a certain side effect profile.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then even things like the antiandrogens, which are great for female patients with acne, but once you start want to get pregnant and things like that, you have to get off those.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we have so many confounding factors and so many uh I guess twists and turns in the patient's journey.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: It makes us have to keep switching therapies.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this again, the way we're uh we we are inviting dermatologists to to look at this is really hopefully helping be with ingredients that or are root causes that you were not touched by uh by medication or by um or by topicals, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And stress is one of those examples, right?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Stress, like what do you do for stress?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we say, you know, you cam, you you do yoga, you meditate, all those things.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, there are some some great ingredients out there like Ashwagandha or holy basil in this case that have been shown to decrease cortisol.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so really thinking about the patient, uh, the consumer in a holistic way, no, you know, we can help with your stress because there was nothing, there's no medication for that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so the gut microbiomes making sure it's healthy, um, you know, and providing those probiotic and prebiotics to be able to support that, you know, we we know it and also if you're taking um antibiotics, and so it's it's it's kind of supporting, so it's really looking at the whole patient and thinking about other ways that can contribute to acne that we can hopefully provide a solution for.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the female adult acne patient is really a unique subset.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the whole overplay of of stress and how that plays into the adult female acne.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's really it's real and it's a problem.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you we can't quit our jobs.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we can't get rid of our kids.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the two big stressors.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I won't say husbands or boyfriends because that would be number three, but we're gonna leave that alone for right now.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, females carry so much responsibility, and I and female patients always complain about, you know, I'm under so much stress and I don't sleep enough.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, we recommend the things that you said, you know, trying meditation, stress-relieving um activities like exercise and things, but doing something like an adaptogen, which is uh, you know, something that could maybe just give you a little bit of a lower serum cortisol level, which was all there's some really good studies on Ashwagandha, I know, and holy basil.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think those are wonderful things for female patients to consider.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I think, you know, from from the research that my my marketing colleagues have taught me too, is that you know, adult female patients do not want to take the same things they were taking as teenagers if it's uh persistent acne.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, I'm not gonna go back on like it's so it's almost almost an evolution, but something maybe more tailored.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And our our um our acne supplement is um developed specifically for adult women acne.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the root causes are the same with men and women, but you know, we really tailored with specific um ingredients um for that population, knowing, you know, with the stress and hormones.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to make sure that we had the best, and knowing that, you know, adult female acne is something that you see a lot in your office.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do we ever?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's a subset of patients who didn't have acne as teens who develop it as adults, which I'm sure is stress-induced, and the the whole package of root causes that we talk about, you know, you can they get them all.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got the patients who have it as teens who continue to have it, so those persistent acne patients, both of whom are really difficult to treat.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, a lot of them are in their childbearing years, a lot of them are breastfeeding, and you know, there's just it's really it's a hard group to treat.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: So this will be really a nice addition to our therapeutic armamentarium.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: How do you envision the clinicians will will position this?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is really gonna be a really gonna be a, I would say, a big paradigm change for practicing dermatologists.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that the advantage that that I have at Neutrofold now is I have the legacy that has started, right?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we are not just launching a new idea, you know, we we I think we're tried and true when it comes to how we approached hair, and we want to make sure that the community understands that we're approaching skin in the same way and then we're doing the same research.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, the benefit now is that we are actually launching with two clinical studies behind us and a third on the way.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that was never done before.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we're thrilled to be able to have some data behind the product to begin with as a formulation, not just as ingredient claims or saying, you know, try this.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we have photos, we have a great insights, and we're also working with people like you to really help us understand the best studies and who would be these patients and what other products they would be on, right?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because we know that acne is not uh it's not just you know, tell someone stop your your your skincare regimen for a study.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's no, they're not going to stop that.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: So what fits in, and so we have these different um conditions or these different selection criteria uh to make sure that we know where the product fits and and we'll we'll get more insights.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think from from the Durham community, we're hoping to really get better insights into who they use it for and with what and the results they get, and also the expectation so far.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh the results that we've we've gotten from case studies that we've done is um it's kind of all over the place, really, um, for patients who are tired, they've tried everything, they don't know what to do anymore.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it seems that the that they're okay with trying a supplement.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then supporting them on that.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I'm sure there's plenty that are using it in combination with topical medications and retinoids.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody's using retinoids.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm sure it can be done both.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And in the studies, you're actually, at least one of them, you are using it in combination with with treatments allowing the patients to stay on their regimens.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: So for the first study that we did, it was we wanted we had to do a full washout of everything.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: We just allowed them to stay on their topical regimen that excluded any type of medication because we had to show does this work, right?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or who would it work for?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a great, we got great results.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: This our second study was in combination with whatever topical regimen you were on, uh, no orals, but if you are on a topical regimen, including salicylic acid or retinoids, and you still have these uh blemishes, still have this mild to moderate acne, you can enter the study.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was added on top of their uh topical regimen.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're now on doing a placebo-controlled trial, which will be a little bit different, but we're we're we're throwing everything at this because we really believe that the the ingredients are fantastic.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: The formula we've worked on this formula for two years.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um so and we're very proud.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so we are no no problems, you know, investing money into these clinical research studies.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's what sets the company apart.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and as you know, I've been a fan of this brand for such a long time.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think um so many of us now are open to using, you know, complementary and alternative medical treatments, um, using CAM along with our medical therapies.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And patients appreciate that.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you tell them, you know, this is something that's been tested, this is something we can use in combination.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think consumers and patients are looking for that kind of advice.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: So kudos to Neutrofall once again for hitting the nail on the head, doing the studies, and now um part of my job and certainly your job is getting the word out there.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we are super excited to have this data.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is to me, is uh every bit as exciting as hair was.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think skin is going to be really, really huge.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: So congrats on this, congrats on the launch, and I think the rest will be history.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much, and thanks for allowing us to be able to speak about this with you today.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm so glad you came.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Isabel.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And for everybody out there, keep your eye on this.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really exciting new addition to our treatment on rumentarium and a new way that we can approach patients with skin problems, much the same way that we approach those with hair thinning.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks so much, Isabel.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody have a great day and thanks for listening.