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Made new - with Yasmine Shahwan · Armed Anchored Adorned

• Armed Anchored & Adorned: Every one of us has a start and a finish line. Every day we get to choose how we will run that race. Will we choose ordinary or counterfeit or will we choose that abundant life that Jesus died to give us? Welcome to the Armed, Anchored and Adorned podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Well hello, hi. Hi. We have Yasmin here. beautiful girl What has been invited into my life? Thank you Lord for you. I you really We go to the same retreat sort of you're in a different community, ⁓ but ⁓ She just kind of blew in with bright and spirit ⁓ You could see the light of the Lord in her and I saw it immediately and she just had this joy that I really I don't say that and I don't make that up for anybody. So so so much. I know it was by chance that I had to reschedule my retreat date in different groups and the Lord just knew what he was doing and I went to group one instead of group two and got to meet Tara and It has been, I just, you're just the most down to earth human being I've ever met. Like, no matter what time of day, you're gonna be your authentic self and it's the most comforting thing. I can just be myself around you and I don't need to, I don't need to pretend. You bring out. Well, you're so awesome. Why pretend to be anything else? Maybe be surprised. No, I wouldn't. I'm a girl too. I've been there. but I've got some years on you and I'm kind of tiring. Yeah, it is. It is exhausting. Be who God made me. Yeah. And if you don't like it, then just move on. Amen. I'm so grateful to be here. So yes, I'm really, really thankful Linda introduced us and we have had some beautiful conversations, but what ⁓ sparked my interest, well first, We had just started, ⁓ we did a fast. And we were fasting, obviously, different reasons, but at the same time. It was the same time, and it was very cool, and we kind of were breaking it around the same time. ⁓ I mean, I'm so like I have fallen in love with fasting. Honestly, it has been such a sweet journey to discover like the power of fasting both spiritually and physically. It's healed me. It's healed my like my mental fog. It's healed my gut. It's healed my relationship with the Lord to be able to hear him clearly. And there's just yeah, I know this is off topic, but fasting is one of the coolest things that I've been able to put into practice and It's dying to our flesh. mean, and it shows you where you are dependent on other things. like has always revealed to me where I am leaning in different because like the first time I fast, it was an irritation that I could not like it came to the surface and I was just so frustrated at how angry I was. And with every fast there's like something new that the Lord is bringing to the surface to show me like, hey, you're not depending on me here, you're depending on this. So cool. So yeah, I talk about fasting at every small group, everything that I do, people know that I'm going to invite them to fast. And it's for you. It's for everyone. Yeah. I think our bodies were built for it. Oh, yeah. actually, it's just so funny. I was reading in Matthew they were asking Jesus, the disciples were asking Jesus about and how to fast and when to fast. ⁓ And he said, ⁓ when you do be like the hypocrites. And it was when you, the word when and not if. And when I read It was just that understanding that we're all meant to fast. Like Jesus has asked us all to step into this practice. And it's not something that we do if here and there, it's when, which implies that we are going to face a time where we need to be fasting. Amen. Yeah, amen. for a long time, I didn't read it like that. It was like, oh, you know, you feel like it, you feel called to it if you're really praying for something. Yeah. But which I have to say, it is powerful. People build a lot of fear around fasting, because I get it. You don't want to stop eating. Who wants to stop eating? Yeah, I don't want to die to myself. Right, exactly. that's just... But when you experience it, when you experience the sweet closeness of the Lord and the voice is just so much clearer because you've created some space that is really clouding. Yeah. Really. It's so cool. So young. So not why we came on here. That was a very great little nugget. Anyway, that was our first introduction to each other. I was like, ⁓ cool. And then you were fasting because you were getting ready to do your first TED Talk. Yeah, that's right. And I had never listened to a TED Talk. So you were my first. ⁓ ⁓ you were going ⁓ do another. ⁓ I just, I was stepping into all kinds of things. called it my super bowl. I was preparing for my first work trip across the country all by myself. I had never traveled ⁓ to work with a client by myself and I had to have all my equipment ready and I had to just be super prepared. And, and it was a week before I stepped on stage for TEDxOcala and did a talk on agape love. And I just knew that if I didn't fast, there was just like, I couldn't see beyond the overwhelm. And so I knew that I needed to fast so that I could be prepared. And so the Lord could carry me through what at the time was the craziest, like two weeks of my life. And he did, he showed up and he showed out. He really just ⁓ through the entire process ⁓ everything that I thought was going to go wrong. didn't and it was just yeah it was very very powerful so I'm very grateful for that. It was ⁓ a very cool week and it was cool to watch you prepare for it and then to share your heart and you shared a tiny bit of your story at that retreat and I was like, I need to know her. I want to know more about... You were a Muslim. You grew up a Muslim. I did. And you... You encountered the Lord. I did. Thank God. your smile when Thank God. And so I'm just so excited to hear more about that. Will you just share what your life was like before Jesus? ⁓ yeah. I grew up in the Middle East and I grew up in a Muslim household and I share it all the time. I grew up in what felt like a very disciplinary household and ⁓ legalistic. There were a lot of religious obligation, but a lack of understanding as to why I was doing those things. and I was memorizing the Quran and fasting and I was praying five times a day and there were just so many things that I couldn't do because of my religion and it was just very strict and I grew up with a very angry God. I say it all the time, he was very angry and the only way that you could get into heaven is if you add up your good deeds and your bad deeds. And if your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds and you tally it up, then you're gonna get into heaven. And so very early on in my life, I resigned to the fact that I was just gonna go to hell. And ⁓ my girlfriends and I would joke about it. I have distinct memories of just saying, ⁓ we're going to hell anyway. Let's just do what it is we wanna do. because we're never gonna meet the expectation and the standard of being a Muslim worthy of going to heaven. And there was so much shame around sin that I just, carried that with me. Like I carried shame everywhere I went and everything was a secret, everything. my, you know, following my own sinful desires was like a big secret. And when it did come to the light, the response was shame. ⁓ And is not to ⁓ condemn parents, they did the best that they could to raise me ⁓ and are great people. ⁓ And love my family so very dearly, but the religion itself ⁓ is It just felt like I was doing things because I had to do it, not because I actually wanted to. And I had no relationship. There was never a time where I could feel God's presence and I could feel a relationship with him. I did it because I had to do it and everyone around me was doing it. So it was more cultural than it was relationship. Well, can I ask you a question about that? Is that typical? Like does Mohammed want a relationship or, right? You're praying to Mohammed. We're praying to Allah in Islam, yeah. And Mohammed is a prophet. It's interesting because, He's just so distant. He's just a distant, all-powerful being. And there was just never this connection between Allah in the sky and me on earth. There was just too much gap. And there is a lot of reverence and honor. And so anything that dishonored was shamed. and to try and have a relationship where you could talk to him on a daily. It just was not, I wasn't, I wasn't taught to do that. I was taught to pray five times a day. And when you pray, you're saying the same verses, you're saying this, it's the same routine every time from beginning to end of prayer, and you're doing that five times a day. And so it's a, it's a pretty collective experience. A lot of people, that I, now that I'm older and I've been able to reconnect with, have shared very, very similar stories, very similar encounters. And it turned me away. And so in 2015, when we moved here to the United States, we were expected to live the same lifestyle and carry the same routine, but in a completely new place. where it's not common and it's not normal and it's not what you see everywhere you go. so it's just society is so different. And when I started making friends and I started to explore, I realized I just didn't want what I grew up with. I didn't want to try and meet this unreachable expectation. And so I had a pretty rocky relationship with my parents through those years. And I had just a very rebellious spirit about me. And it was hard because in 2016 I ended up going a separate way. And my parents and I's relationship was severed that time. And so I'm in this country that I didn't grow up in. And I'm trying to navigate being an adult for the first time, which when you're 18, you're not really an adult, I don't think. I don't believe I was an adult at that age. But I really just wanted everything that my parents didn't want for me because I was so shamed by them. I mean, it's just it goes down to details, right? Like my lifestyle just felt so strict and so restricted. that when I was presented with freedom, I wanted to drown in it. And my version of freedom was doing whatever I want and living life as I please. it was, so I went from one extreme to as an 18 year old, a completely other extreme. And I was calling myself an atheist and I just threw religion away and I said, I'm done with this. It doesn't feed me, it doesn't make me feel good and I can do better. I can create a better life for myself. And turns out being an atheist isn't really all that it's cracked up to be. I was living in darkness. And so for years I was just making mistake after mistake and I eventually it hit me that I'm just deeply unhappy. no matter, it just felt like no matter what, I'm deeply unhappy. No matter what I have going on. You know, when I was a Muslim, I wasn't unhappy. When I was an atheist, I was unhappy. I just, didn't make good choices for myself. I didn't know how to make a good choice. Looking back, it's like I had no guidance. I had no mentorship to prevent me from making decisions that were not for my goodness. I didn't want what was best for me, clearly, you know? And I didn't know what was best for me. And so fast forward a few years, I am dating somebody, his name is Eric, and ⁓ he was so, so wonderful. And he was pulling me out of this depression state that I was in. I was in a pretty dark place when we met and he was... helping me just get on my feet. And so I looked at him as like my savior and my hero. And ⁓ we just fell in love and it was really, you know, circumstantial to the fact that we were in such close proximity to each other all the time. But he invited me to go to church and he grew up Catholic and he just wanted to go to church and experience God and I was so resistant. I, yeah, I was just like, I grew up with religion. I don't need another religion. Like I'm done. did what I, you I grew up with it. I just don't need another one. And so I just was very resistant and he was very persistent. And then I don't know, a Sunday came and, or a Sunday was on its way and he was like, let's just go. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna go just. for you. I don't care to go for myself. Like I'm really just going to be a support for you because you've just done so much for me. And I walk into a church for the very first time and I experience worship for the very first time. And I don't even remember what the song was that was they were playing. I just remember feeling so comforted. It was like nothing else. It just felt like I just got the craziest, biggest, warmest hug. I felt a love that I hadn't felt ever really. I'll get emotional sharing this story. always brings me to tears. yeah, I experienced the Holy Spirit for the first time and I didn't even understand what that meant and who the Holy Spirit was. But there was something that changed, an encounter that changed me. And I tried to deny it and deny that I enjoyed going. And the next Sunday I was back. I know I was so like... I was so rebellious like I know it's not for me and next Sunday I was there and the Sunday after that and the Sunday after that and he stopped going at one point and I could not it just it was feeding me like nothing else has ever fed me in my life I was starving I was so thirsty for the love that I had experienced and And then slowly, I started meeting people that were Christians. I met Liana at a business conference and ⁓ she's in our retreat as well. And for those who are listening. ⁓ And she was just so kind and gentle with me knowing that I was new to the faith and that I had so many questions, but she could see what God was doing in my life. And she would sit with me and answer my questions and was just so patient. And she invited me to her church and I started exploring and building community. it just, there was a Sunday and I just had to raise my hand and say the prayer of salvation. And I did. at that time I had no idea what I was doing. I was giving my life to Jesus and I didn't again even know who Jesus really was. I just knew that whatever it is I tasted, I wanted more of it and I was raising my hand to receive it. And then a year later, I got baptized and Eric and I ended up getting baptized together. And so I'm brand new to the Christian faith and there's so much nervousness. There's so much fear because what I had just done is so frowned upon. as a Muslim, it's just like the biggest taboo. And I would post about it just lightly and I would immediately face backlash from, because most of the people that followed me at that time were from the community I grew up in, my Muslim friends and high school friends. And I just, like the backlash. was almost instant and I didn't know how to handle it and how to navigate it. And so it just, I couldn't post about it. There was just too much anxiety there. And after I gave my life to Christ, life got really hard. ⁓ Eric relapsed into addiction and I had never dealt with that before. and I had never dealt with that kind of burden and I didn't know what to do and so I carried it and it for about a year was slowly just taking from me and ⁓ it was yeah addiction is a really I won't drive too deep on this ⁓ in this conversation but it is a very painful experience I just don't wish it upon anybody I It's just especially harder when you don't know the word of God and you don't know how to navigate it. Yeah. And pray over it and intercede for it. And so I just carried it all with him and it almost took my life. And it ended up taking his and he passed away. ⁓ I'm so sorry. Yeah, thank you. It was my worst fear was him passing away through an overdose and it was paralyzing. And it didn't happen while we were together. There was a break in between ⁓ like his relapse and his overdose. And he ended up going to Colorado for rehab. And that was when I was able to start healing because I had the space and I wasn't constantly worrying and constantly trying to save him and constantly trying to, you there was just, there was a freedom there. And during that time is when I started going to a church that really emphasized the importance of reading the word of God. And so I was a believer for a few years before I was a believer. And it's crazy. I'm sorry. Can we just pause for one second? crazy is that? That churches do not say, your face in the Bible. know his word. Yeah. And they weren't bad churches. But if I'm only going on Sundays, and I just years were passing, and I couldn't quote a single verse of scripture. And I started going to a live church in Orlando and they, it just wasn't about them. They're like, you can receive from us on Sundays, we're so glad you're here, but if you don't pick up your Bible and read it, you are never going to understand what God has for you, who you are in Christ and who God is. And so they taught me how to open up my Bible, how to read scripture, understanding, it just. And I'll never forget the day I opened up the Word of God and for the first time in my life I understood what I was reading. It felt like the veil was lifted. It just felt like I was being fed in ways that I had never been fed before. I could not stop. Every day I just was just reading and drowning myself in the Word of God because I was finally feeling equipped. Well, it's totally different when somebody's feeding you and you're feeding yourself. Yeah. goes in. Like what you and you're doing it more consistently. Again, getting fed on Sunday is necessary. We are we are the body of Christ. Like we need community. We need to be together. Exactly. There is something powerful about corporate communion. But if my daily routine does not include my time with Jesus, I'm going to continue to drown. And I did drown. I was drowning. and I was frustrated. I almost was losing my faith. I give my life to you, Jesus, and I'm suffering and I'm drowning. And at the time, I didn't understand it looking back now, spiritual warfare to the highest degree. The devil's not happy. I gave my life to Christ. And so what did he do? He attacked. Eric was a gifted man, gifted. I mean, he just... He impacted, I always say this, the years that he was, in the short years he was sober that I knew him, I only knew him for a few years, he did more than people do their whole lives. There was power behind the calling on his life. And he's resting. I know he's with Jesus and he's, sometimes I envy him. He is with Jesus and he gave his life to Christ and he was baptized with me. He loved Jesus so much. But I look back and I thought, I wonder what would have happened if we had been equipped with the word of God. And so it just fueled my calling. It fueled my faith. I'm grateful, which is crazy to say, and I didn't always say this, but I'm very grateful because there is a, it's unshakable. Sure, I still go through hard things and I still struggle with doubt and I still struggle with anxiety and overwhelm, but there is such a sureness, I don't know if that's a word, but in my soul that I am a child of Jesus Christ. I am a daughter of the King of Kings. There is no denying who I am and where I come from. It was that experience that brought me to this and it equipped me. It strengthened me. And honestly, it's given me the boldness to be able to work with other women who have struggled with their faith. so it's been a journey, ⁓ but it's been it's also been a few years since I started going to a lab. I think I'm on year four. ⁓ gosh, it gets blurry after a time. But ⁓ but Yeah, there is just no denying what he's done in my life. I mean, I've just I shared a brief overview. We would be sitting for hours and hours and hours, days if I shared every testimony of God's goodness over my life and how he's protected me. But cool fun fact, two weeks after I got baptized, my parents reach out to me and I reconnect with them and start rebuilding my relationship with them. Praise God. Praise God. And from an anxiousness that I've always had with my parents and always feeling hated and even though they they never said they hate me. I know my parents love me, but there was just such an anxiety around our relationship because I they disapproved and I knew that and I had to carry that to them seeing me as a believer. Now, obviously my parents wish I was less them, right? But. think they're glad that I have God in my life. And honestly, it's hard to deny what he's doing in my life because I was living a really broken lifestyle and now my heart is just to be more like him and to be more like him is to be good and to live well and to love well. And so I think they can see that and it's just hard to fight that. It's to be closer to him. It's not you're trying to get those tally marks. Right. I'm no longer and that's I mean, I still struggle sometimes. But unlearning the act of performance and working to earn my love. have I have always felt like I've had to earn it. I had no right to it. I had to work really, really hard. And if the result was good, then I earned the love. And that's performance-based since I for as long as I can remember I mean we can go back all the way to my childhood and I would feel that feeling and so to understand what grace means I'm still learning. I'm still learning. I'm probably gonna be learning how to receive grace until I meet my Father in heaven because it's never-ending, truly. I don't think we can really grasp it, Emily. Beyond my comprehension, 100%. You're not alone there. And so for the first time, I'm... And it's funny, even last retreat, I struggled with it. What did we talk about at our retreat is the day we encounter God and stand before Him, before we go into heaven. there was always this fear because if I had to stand before my God and show him my sin and my good deeds, my thought immediately is gripped with fear. I'm going to hell. There's just no tallying anything. so carrying that just was so shame driven. And to learn that The Lord loves me so much that he takes my sin and he throws it into the sea of forgetfulness. And he loves me so much that he would take that burden from me and carry it and go through the excruciating pain of paying the price that I literally could never pay. I wouldn't even know how to pay it. And he paid it for me so that I could have an eternal relationship with him. And the love of him compels you into a totally different life. I didn't have to earn it. I didn't have to prove myself. Because he loves me so much, I want to love him so much. And I want to know him. I want to know his people. I want to love his people. I want to, I just want to be better. The result of that was so much more impactful than trying to earn it. Because when I try to earn it, I will fail. I will fall short. And then the shame will keep me in that darkness and keep me seeking comfort and sin, which will never comfort me. Right, it's so counterfeit. It's so, so fake. It will never give you the peace and the rest that Jesus has to offer. Right. And so that has changed my life. has completely transformed my life. think one of the things that you asked me was, you know, what verse really do you hold on to or just stands out to you and Romans 12 to and that is the verse that has completely transformed me literally. not conform to the patterns of this world, but be renewed, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And there was a lot of renewing that the Lord has done and is continuing to do. Thank you Lord. Thank you Lord. So you were talking about ⁓ reconnecting with your family. How did that look when? ⁓ now you come with Jesus. Yeah, I've had ups and downs with the journey. it's been... ⁓ good and bad. I think there was a part of me that thought, oh my gosh, I've experienced this amazing new thing. It's completely healed me. It is something that I just can't even explain, but it happened to me. So like, you're gonna be a Christian and like, it's gonna happen. And there was just this like fire, There was this like, it's gonna happen now. And so I brought that. And I was rejected. so was Jesus. And it's and I and I realized that my timing is not God's timing. You know, that. Eat that. ⁓ like, but now it'd be so much better, Lauren. ⁓ ⁓ can't it be my timing? Right. Because clearly I know what I'm doing. But yeah, ⁓ I. I've been ridiculed. think my family, they think I'm a little crazy, which makes sense. I'm doing what no one in my family has done. You've been transformed. I've been transformed and they don't understand it and they don't believe in it. My mom thinks that I'm lost and she's scared for me. And you know, my dad is a historian. He just loves history so much. He loves being educated in that area. And I'm not a historian. I can appreciate history, but I'm just not the most knowledgeable. And so having conversations have always been difficult because it's like proof your education. Like show me the proof. I can't show you the proof of something spiritual. All I can do is share my story. And I think trying to win over my family with education and knowledge and proof has always set me up for failure because it's truly the Holy Spirit is, you can't comprehend it. It's not something that I can just hand to you. I can't like hand you the revelation of Christ. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal it to you. And you have be ready. And you have to be ready to receive it. I'm learning that all I can do is show them who I am and love them to the best of my ability and trust that God is moving and he is moving. I see it. I see who is surrounding my family. I see the people that have come into our lives since I've been saved. I see the way my community cover my family in prayer and intercede with me on their behalf. And there's just... There's so much trust in knowing that God wants them saved more than I do. And I had to accept that. I had to accept that the Lord actually loves them more than I ever could. They're his children. And so trying to win them over to just go, Jesus, here I did it. I had to really let that die. And... And so we've had ups and downs. I've had conversations that are so sweet and encouraging and empowering. And I've had conversations that make me want to hide my head in a hole and disappear. so, you know, as a family, we've just been through a lot as well over the last few years. And I had to apologize and I've had to show them that I heard them, you know, when I left. I heard them. And even though it felt like I was being disowned and I was being kicked out, and so I was the one that was wronged and they owe me an apology and my parents hurt me and, you know, it's not that I'm wrong to feel that way. Right. But Jesus was showing me the ways that I had heard them. And so beautiful. And I had to own that. And so I think, ⁓ I think God is moving and I believe that my entire family will be saved. And actually it's so fascinating. I grew up Muslim and my dad actually converted for my mom when he wanted to marry her and he grew up Catholic. Really? No, not Catholic. I'm sorry. He grew up, what's the one that starts with an O? He's an Orthodox Jew? No, an Orthodox Christian. okay. So... I'm like, what? Yeah, no, we're Palestinian. I'm Palestinian, my family comes from Palestine, and my dad was raised in a Christian town, and he comes from a Christian family, and he was actually baptized in Jerusalem. I had no idea. I had no idea. I knew he converted to marry my mother. But that's as far as he went with his past. And to be frank, I didn't really ask because I just assumed he was Muslim. I just assumed, like, just, there was so much I didn't know. And a couple years ago, two years ago when my grandfather passed away, it was revealed to me, like these things were revealed to me that my grandmother was an intercessor and that she worked on a worship team and that she believed. ⁓ She believed her son would come back to Jesus and she believed that we would be saved. I did not know those things. ⁓ And so it wasn't, and it was such a comforting moment because it's not like I just stumbled across Jesus one day and got saved. No, he brought me back to him. He brought his line back to him. Amen. That's cool. And it's so cool. was and there's still so much to learn about my background. And there's just like such a curiosity for me to understand where I come from because truly like we are my lineage is Christian. And that is super cool. Super cool. was it was just like such a sweet wink from God to be like, I got you like I know you. I made you. you are mine. And yeah, it was one of the coolest experiences, but I'm, you know, ministering to my family is one of the hardest things to do. And I'm just trusting that God is in control, and he his will over mine. And I've received prophetic revelations that they will be saved, and I'm just trusting it. Yes, Lord. And there's really nothing that I can do to convert them. That's right. I can't force it. That's not my timing. It's what God has planned. All I could do is love them and love them well and show them who Jesus is instead of just trying to tell them who Jesus is. Yeah. That's so good. Yeah. So good. ⁓ So when you... I love this. when you were in rebellion, when you were in, you know, just fighting life, could you look back and see any ways that he was drawing you to himself? ⁓ yeah. ⁓ yeah. There were so many, so many things I look back at now and I'm like, wow, you were in the midst of it from the very beginning. This one I found, I found more recently. ⁓ So I was born here in the States, but when I was like, I need to know the exact year. I moved to the Middle East. My family and I, we all moved together. It was after 9-11. It was just a scary time. And my dad was presented with an opportunity to work in the Middle East and it paid really well. And my parents wanted us to grow up Muslim. They wanted us to grow up speaking the Arabic language and understanding where we're from and our culture. So it just made sense for them to raise us over there. and was just me and one of my brothers at the time. I have four younger brothers now, but we moved to the most, but before that, I was living in Washington states where I was born. And my mom shared with me that she had a housekeeper or like a nanny, I have no idea, this I just found out, and my mom was always bothered by her because all she would do is just play worship and pray. in our house. She was a Christian woman and she would minister to my mom and my mom thought she was so silly and she was she was uncomfortable by her presence. And I don't know how long she worked with my mom, but I look back and I'm like, from day one, you've been sending people like from the very beginning. Right. And so that was really cool. But even during my years here, where I was calling myself an atheist, there were just so many moments where I look back and I'm like, Lord, had you not been there, I would have died. Situations and circumstances I put myself in, where I was taken advantage of, I won't get into details, but I'm a young woman working in hospitality and I'm naive and I'm pretty and men take advantage of that or they want to take advantage of that. And so many situations where I... I have been, I could have been killed. I could have been seriously, seriously hurt. And thank you Lord. And thank you Lord. He just always kept me safe. he was just a part of the journey from the very beginning. It's another cool moment. So it's funny because years before I got saved, there a song called brighter day by Kirk Franklin. And I was obsessed with it. I could not stop listening to it. And I looked back, I'm like that I was worshiping. I was worship. Right? Like that is a song praising Jesus Christ and sharing his goodness. And so just like really small, like details. where it's like, Lord, you were moving the entire time. You were there from the very beginning, ⁓ orchestrating the day I encountered you. Thank you. Against my own will, because I wanted nothing to do with being nice to myself. But he knew your heart, what it was going to be. He knew what I needed. That's cool. Yeah. And so on the flip side, can you see how the enemy was drawing you away? ⁓ yeah. The enemy's biggest tactic with me is overwhelm. Overwhelming me to the point where I just can't see the Lord. And I look back and I think he just overwhelm over my career, overwhelm over my provision, overwhelm. with the people in my life overwhelmed with my to-do's and being so busy and also trying to do it all myself. I couldn't trust anyone. I was never loved in that way. I had to prove myself. And so there was this hyper-independence that was bred in me that I had to just, if I wanted something, I had to go and get it myself. I had to do it and earn it and prove it all by myself. And so learning to trust. in a God who loves you so much that you can rest and still be provided for and still be fed and still be taken care of just was foreign, was so foreign to me and the devil knew that and he would use overwhelm to separate me from that kind of love. I love it you can see that now. Yeah. That's cool. That was good. It's not that any of that really goes away after you get saved. Of course. ⁓ You just recognize it. You just recognize it. The comebacks are always quicker. And so now when I find myself falling short, I can see it. There's an awareness there. I can understand why. And I can run to my father. And before, I would just run away even further. And now when I sin and when I fall short and when I feel shame and when I'm struggling, I can in that exact moment run to my father and go help me please. And he does. And he does every Every single time. Every single time. And he's not there shaking his finger at with his hand on his hip. He's not always a hug. It's always so gentle. And that's why I love retreat so much because retreat is really like the place where I can feel that love. like I can feel it all the time but retreat is the place where I can get away from the world. So retreat is like straight up Sabbath. Like you just stop, like you don't talk. You just, I mean we talk, but that's not the point. We come and we share what God's doing. But it is so powerful. Again, I see it as like a fasting of the world, of like just clear that space and make more space for the Lord. If you know me, you know I'm the queen of putting a million things on my calendar and just over committing myself and. trying to please everybody and trying to do everything. so retreat is that time where I get to the Lord's cleansing you. Exactly. And shut my phone off and disconnect and not feel guilty about it either. Where I'm not upsetting anyone. I'm not letting anyone down. And I can just, I can just be. Clear the overwhelm. Exactly. Retreat is just that place where you get to clear your space from the overwhelm. And it isn't about performance. It is about knowing him, knowing who you are in him. And that is what I see adorned. Like it's, we know our father and what that means we are. So we walk in, I'm his kid. And I mean, you've already touched on your identity has shifted to- I gotta gork, I gotta be on this wheel to ⁓ I'm not begging this God I don't know to grant me heaven. I'm the king's kid. I'm royalty. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a part of a holy nation and there's a promise that comes with that and you won't know what that promise is until you read the word. And when you read the word you get to understand. It's not something to argue with. If the word of God is the word of God, which it has been proven to be the word of God, it is truth, it is unchanging. You don't get to argue with it. And so if it calls me a holy nation, I'm a holy nation. If it calls me a royal priesthood, I'm royal priesthood. And if it says that I am loved beyond measure, I'm loved beyond measure. And I just, it just wasn't an argument anymore. I just had to accept it. If I'm going to call myself a Christian, have to believe the word of God. And that means believing who I am in Christ and how much he loves me. And I, you know, it's a wrestle, but it's very, very special. There's a part of me that wishes I knew you before. Yeah, I have a friend actually who, I know a few people, but I have a really, really good friend of mine who is very close with me today and she knew me when I was Muslim. And she knew me when I was an atheist and now she knows me as a believer. she anchors me so because ⁓ sometimes I forget what I went and the gravity of it. ⁓ And also sometimes I feel like gaslighting myself ⁓ and she reminds me and she, like the proof is there and she was a part of it. And so it's like that cool confirmation of like what I went through was real. ⁓ I sometimes, how I was before Jesus. He's just, He's just the best. ⁓ You know, I don't really, I don't want to look back other than to share the glory who He is. ⁓ Right. So what do you, what would you want somewhat people, us, me, I need to know more. Like you've created such a hunger and curiosity in me that was never a part of me and I'm so grateful for that. What do you want people to know about Muslim? Yeah, I think the number one thing I wanna share is that you don't have to be afraid of Muslim people. You don't have to be scared. I we're living in a time where division is palpable. It is so thick around us. And it is, I mean, there's so much fear because it sells. Fear sells. Division sells. And we are being pitted and positioned to hate. The media wants us to hate. They want Muslims to hate Christians. They want Christians to hate Muslims. And I just... As someone who grew up Muslim and is now a Christian, I will refuse to participate in that kind of division. And so my biggest advice is to not be afraid and to not be scared because one, Jesus didn't give us a spirit of fear, sound mind. And also we're called to love them and we're called to show them who Jesus is because Jesus loves them even more than we do. Just like with my family, Jesus loves them more than we do. And so we're not going to show them the light of Christ by hating them. We're not going to show them the light of Christ by being afraid of them or trying to cast them away. And also so many Muslims grow up here in the West and they feel that. They feel that hatred. They feel that persecution and that's not fair to them. You know, there's this saying and it broke my heart to hear it. but it's like a lot of people will throw that, I'll see it thrown online and it's like, there's no hate like Christian love. Ew, I just heard that recently. Ew! It is so ew. Ew! What the heck are we doing? the heck are we doing? I couldn't agree more. I read that and my heart broke. Yeah, and I've experienced it. I understand, I also experienced it. It is one of the craziest things and I understand people. They are good intentioned, but you cannot hate someone into becoming a Christian. You cannot hate them into loving Christ. And to misrepresent Jesus like that is it grieves. It grieves him. It grieves the Holy Spirit. grieves me. It grieves me. It grieves Jesus. It grieves his spirit. It's just a heartbreak we need to ⁓ be ⁓ armed with God's more ever. ⁓ We to who God is more than ever ⁓ we need to be able to ⁓ build relationships with more than ever. They ⁓ need it. need Christ. ⁓ There's a reason we love Let's not be greedy. Let's be selfish with it. ⁓ It's cool. There's ⁓ a creator on Instagram. He is really wonderful. ⁓ His name is Sharik Khan. I think his Instagram is real Sharik Khan. And he grew up Muslim as well. And I think that's why I love him so much because he is so bold about ministering to Muslim people. And it's given me boldness to do it. But he said something that was profound because we're living in a time where people are very afraid of Muslims and they're afraid that Muslims are taking over, that Muslims are going to just ruin this country. And there's a part of me that can understand your fear, but I do not agree. I do not think that this fear is going to get you anywhere. It's not going to get us anywhere. It's just going to create hatred in your heart. for people that God wants you to love. And he said, what he said was that God loves Muslim people so much that he is bringing them to our backyard. And that's profound. Yeah, it is. Because we are not sending out the troops to them. Well, and the enemy's tactic is, oh, don't talk to them. Exactly. They're scary. They're going to get you. And that's, it's just, it be more wrong? Right. Right. And we need to understand who they are and show them who we are. And I... I just love that he said that because it's what a perspective to have. Like, let's not be afraid when we see headlines and when we see, you know, talks of division. Let's let's sit with them at the dinner table. Right. Let's save them a seat to join us. Well, and and I think it's really important to not just like just don't be afraid because the reality is, is there is fear where to come from. What's it about? are we like get it out on the table in a safe place where you can like wait a minute? What am I afraid of because I just thinking long While we were talking Like one of my fears would be I don't know enough To share with them like ⁓ I know the Quran at all. Yeah now I want to know more. But and I don't think anybody really has to be perfectly versed in either. I mean, you won't be. It's impossible. Thank you. Even scholars are still learning. There's just so much to learn. mean, I'm going to we're going to be studying the Bible for the rest of our lives and not fully comprehend it. Right. And so that take the pressure off of trying to know everything because you're not. I'm not. You're not like we're it's just It's like I said earlier, like I can't give you the revelation of Christ. can't just hand that to you. That's revealed. But I can bring my heart to the table. Exactly. And we can be curious about each other. there is fear, recognize it, call it out and recognize That's an enemy tactic. Yeah. that is to keep you separated. But if you can come as, hey, I don't know. I don't know everything, but I'd like to know you. Yeah. I mean, come with curiosity. Yeah. I, it's really good. I think the reason, from my perspective and from what I'm seeing, the fear stems from. People are afraid that they're going to lose their freedom, that they're going to lose their rights, that they're going to lose their culture. I think here in the United States, there's this fear that Muslims are going to come and bring Sharia law. And there are Muslims that are saying that they're going to do that. There's religious extremism everywhere, but that doesn't make every Muslim someone to be afraid of. Of course. ⁓ Also, you need to know the word of God. ⁓ Right? I mean, there's when you don't know what you're doing. There's fear when ⁓ you don't know who is. ⁓ And so I think you are feeling that, which ⁓ is understandable, Pick up Bible and read about who Jesus is. Open up the book of Revelation. We're not sitting in anything that hasn't been prophesied. We're not dealing with anything that hasn't been prophesied. God's will will be done. And I think that if we had a better understanding of what we were facing, we wouldn't be so afraid. So as we're talking about fear, ⁓ I think one of the fears, one of the things I've heard is that Muslims have been taught and brought up to hate Christians. And as a Christian, I think some people are afraid of that hate and what they're going to experience there. Yeah. I mean, were you brought up to hate Christian? No. I wasn't brought up to hate Christians. I did think they were crazy. I didn't agree with what they are. I didn't agree with what they believed in. And I also didn't have that much exposure to it, to be honest. You know, I grew up in a Muslim country and ⁓ there really wasn't any religious diversity where I was raised. Everyone was Muslim. What age did you come back here? I was 18. So I like my primitive years and You know, my childhood was in the Middle East and my adulthood has been here. And I didn't grow up hating Christians, but I grew up believing that they were wrong and we were right. And when I moved here, I felt hated by them and my encounters weren't always pleasant. And so it was really easy. to take my scarf off here and stop wearing it because just would be less questions. It would be less, you know, less that it's not necessarily like hatred, but there was always this apprehensive look, you know? And I think a lot of Muslims deal with that here. ⁓ But no, we weren't raised to hate. And I think, you know, the media, don't get me wrong. There are Muslims that hate Christians. There are Muslims that hate everyone. again, religious extremism is a driving factor. On all sides. On all sides. But in Islam specifically, it can be terrifying to witness because it is a little scary. We see, even I'm afraid of it. ⁓ And it's just the devil's work. Yeah. You know? And it's violence, it's brokenness, it's what Jesus came to uproot. And so, but it's all that we see on this side of the world. It's all that we are, especially if you're not traveling, if you're not curious enough to go and explore that side of the world and get to know that side of the world and all you're doing is consuming the media and the news. and what they're telling you, of course you're afraid. I'm afraid. And I grew up Muslim. And if that's all I consume, there's just this instability that comes from that. That percentage does not represent the entire Muslim community. There are Muslims all over the world. Different cultures, different countries. Just like we have Christians all over the world. Different cultures in different countries. And we have crazy Christians. And we have our crazy, exactly. That's the word radical. Radical extremism. And it's violent and it's ugly and it is a distortion of who God is. And it's a tactic to deceive people. And so I just invite you to be curious. I invite you to turn the media off and the news off. We shouldn't even be consuming that anyway. I agree. I just, we shouldn't be consuming bad news 24 seven in my opinion. It's all, that's all they give us. And it's gonna, it's making us sick. And so I would just come to come to a more curious place to understand why they believe that way because they are right or die for their faith. Yeah. Like they believe that they are correct and we are incorrect. Okay, so you totally blew my mind. You may already know this, so you're just, you're welcome. ⁓ I had no idea the Quran. It's so similar to the Bible. Yeah, I have no... ⁓ So many books and stories the Quran are almost identical in the Bible, especially in Old Testament. Except for... Except for the story of Jesus and his crucifixion. ⁓ And it's, I think, one the devil's biggest tactics, one of his biggest... points of deception is to create something that is almost the truth. It's right there. And yet it's missing the point. The point that makes us who we are. And it was pretty profound to read the Bible for the first time because I was like, ⁓ I read this. I grew up with the story of Noah. I grew up with the story of Moses. I grew up with these stories. and to read it from a biblical perspective. It was very comforting, actually. And then I read the story of Abraham and my life changed because this blew my mind and it's profound because I was reading in Genesis and I was reading how Abraham received a promise that he would have a son. And he was old and he did not think him. I mean, what was Sarah's reaction? She laughed. She didn't think that that was going to happen and that he would have enough children for many nations as like the stars in the sky. so him and his wife, Sarah, received this promise and this prophecy. And Sarah, with her doubt, convinced Abraham to, because she didn't think she could have a child. She didn't think she could conceive. And so she convinced Abraham to have a child with Hagar. And then came Isaac. And so we have Ishmael and Isaac. And the Quran, Ishmael is the son of the promise. And in the Bible, Isaac is that promise. Isn't that crazy? That is crazy. It's crazy to me. Yeah. And I was blown away because I grew up believing that Ishmael is who God asked Abraham to sacrifice on the mountain before he sent the lamb. And that Ishmael was the promised lineage. And it just... One gave me this understanding that we have been in opposition of each other since the beginning of time. And we see that with the two sons of Abraham. But two, just the deception in that one was a promise and one was birthed out of disobedience because Sarah did not trust God. Right, I'm gonna make it happen. And so through her own will and way, had Abraham concede with Hagar and we have Ishmael. And then after she had Isaac, she didn't even want Hagar around anymore. Right. And she banished them. And I can't even imagine. I cannot. I can't even imagine how Ishmael and Isaac felt about each other. I know. Both believing that they're the answer to that promise. And we also see the... If we study the lineage, Ishmael is who we look at as the Arab nation and the Muslim nation. And Isaac is who we look at as the lineage that led to Jesus Christ. can we do if we understood that? Like ⁓ how much more gentle would we come a conversation? if we understood why Muslims believe the way they do and why we believe the way we do. And it was one of the craziest days of my life to read that and to understand it for the very first time. And I invite you to do it. You don't need to pick up a Quran and just read it back to back, but I invite you to understand why our differences and why Muslims believe the way they do. because you'll have a lot more empathy, you'll have a lot more compassion, and you'll be a lot more gentle. And that is what every single human needs to come to the table with. It doesn't really matter what you're talking about. Yeah. You can't hate someone into agreeing with you. You can't scare them into agreeing with you. And if you do scare them into agreeing with you, it's not real agreement. It's just temporary. It's just temporary. it's fear. and it's just not what God wants. He doesn't want our sacrifices, He wants our hearts. And so... Our whole heart. Our whole heart. And so it's just a cool fact when I share it with people, they're always blown away and it's just... And that's just one of a million. I admit. There's so much that you can study and again, you don't need to become a scholar, but how cool would it be? if we paid a little more attention to the people that we fear the most. And bring your fears to the Lord because he can handle them. He's not angry that you have them. That's good. He knows we have them. That is really good. You don't have to be shameful about your fears. Yeah. Because they were put there somehow and he knows where and he can uproot anything he needs to and replace it with truth. So just bring your to him. Don't hide them. So good. I love if you would just, would you take some time and can we pray over those that wrestling with being curious about those that are afraid of the Muslims maybe that the Lord has brought to them and ⁓ all that we talked about those that could be wrestling with this whole concept. Yeah. Because I know we're not alone. You're not alone. This is not a in the grand scheme of people. Yeah. So would you cover, ⁓ these people in prayer? I would love to. Heavenly Father, we thank you so much for this conversation. We thank you for taking over this space, taking over this microphone, and just showing us, leading this conversation, revealing yourself to us. Thank you for setting us free. Father God, we lift up the spirit of fear and we give it to you. Yes, Lord. We lift up the confusion and we give it to you. We lift up the spirit of division and hatred and we give it to you. In a world that wants to keep us divided, Father God, you have come. You have come to set us free. You promise us a kingdom where there is no division, where there is no hatred, where there is no fear. And I pray over this Christian nation. I pray that your children would have a curiosity for those who aren't saved, would have a heart for the Muslim people, would have compassion for the Muslim people, and that they wouldn't be afraid to minister, that they wouldn't be afraid to speak to them and to love them. Father God, you love them more than we ever could. And you want them. You want them to join who you are in your eternal kingdom. I pray that eyes would be opened and revelation would be made clear. I pray over our table that we would make room for the Muslim community, that we would invite them to sit with us, to break bread with us, to bring their stories and we can share the truth and we can love them. I just, I rebuke the spirit of division. I rebuke that evilness and I pray that we can share truth with love instead of fear and hatred. I pray protection over your word that as we read your word that you would reveal how to minister and I thank you for bringing them here and just showing us how you want us to lead in this area. your will be done here on earth as it is in heaven. Yes Lord. In Jesus name. Amen. Thank you. Thank you for coming and sharing your heart and your experience. I just, and she brought me bread. ⁓ It was delicious. ⁓ I love a good loaf of sourdough. ⁓ man. It was, was beautiful. You'll see. I'll show you. It's a holy experience making bread. It's beautiful. Yeah. But thank you. Thank you for one meeting up with me and it was just, Before we even plan this, we just met up for coffee and I can't tell you how much that has fed me. And ⁓ just the wisdom that you brought to the conversation. Thank you for inviting me to this podcast. I have been called to share my testimony and share my story. And I have been, I am called in this area and I've let my anxieties prevent me from doing it because in the past it's just backlash and there will be backlash, but rejoice. when you are persecuted. That's right. Right? Like we are to rejoice when we are persecuted and I know what the word says and I and I'm ready. And so you've given me an opportunity to do something that I have been. I thought it was gonna be a lot more anxious. I'm not gonna lie about this whole thing. Like I'm surprised I'm not sweating right now. Holy Spirit. But yeah, you're a wonderful host. I love you. Thank you. I love you. Okay, so we ask everybody. Because everybody, everyone's gotta eat dinner. What's for dinner? I've been on a crazy rotisserie chicken. ⁓ Kick. Do you make I just eat it. Go get it. I just go get it and eat it. I have been, I just feel like I'm in a season where there's a lot going on and I want to meal prep and I want to eat clean and it's just, I call it my emotional support animal. ⁓ my emotional support rotisserie. When you walk by that, it's really hard to not. And so I usually will cook a cup of rice and some green beans and it will last me a couple days. That's perfect. Yeah, it's delicious and it's dependable. I'm waiting for you. It's waiting for me and I know what it's going to taste like and I don't have to break my back to make it. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook, but right now I'm in a rotisserie chicken season. That's brilliant. Sounds great. Well thank you so much. Thank you for being here and I just, as always, you take everything to the Lord, you pray about it and let him multiply and take away anything he wants to in your life. Amen. We love you. Bye. Bye.