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Guest Podcast: The 10 Year Success Rule That Changed Everything (Digital Social Hour) · Success Story with Scott Clary

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Today, you're going to hear me on Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly.
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Make sure you subscribe on YouTube or go listen wherever you get your podcasts.
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We're just zoom out for people listening to understand what we do.
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We have to go into someone else's life.
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But they've been living in this domain for the past 20 years.
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And we have to find a way to keep up with them intellectually.
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And even though we may not know anything about the subject outside of a couple hours of research.
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So combine that with doing it eight times in a row in a day or doing it in this like a little
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this wet box. It's not easy.
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All right, guys, we got him back.
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This time in a studio, we can stand up in.
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Yeah, you remember that first one in Miami?
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I do remember that first one.
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I do remember that one.
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Miami's evolved a lot.
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Yeah, I mean, now you have dope spaces like this.
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So it's like the whole content creator scene.
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This is all post-COVID.
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I think tons of cool people move down here.
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Hopefully we're part of that cohort.
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Absolutely.
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That's why you're here.
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But yeah, we've had a good time as we move down here.
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And again, podcasts is going well.
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We're building out a studio too.
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Oh, yeah.
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In Miami?
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That's the story.
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Yeah.
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Oh, yeah, about like five minutes from here.
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Nice.
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Yeah, so we got a house guest says in the back.
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Guest says it's going to be a studio.
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Hellio.
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That's smart because that first studio was fully booked.
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And you couldn't even stand in the room.
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It was like, how is this place booking out?
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I know.
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I'm talking about a studio.
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But I'm a big guy.
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And that studio was like this little cement box.
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And not only could I not stand up,
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but it also got super hot during the room.
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Yeah, remember that.
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And I did a couple podcasts in there.
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You did a like a stand like for how you do your podcasts
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where you just you court a whole bunch and like a period of time.
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But I did a couple podcasts over like a course of a summer.
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And I was about to pass out at half the time.
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I'm interviewing you and you were sweating dude.
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That was what I'm going to sweat.
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And I'm passing that I'm like, and you know,
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some of the conversations, at least with people on my show, for sure,
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it's like some of these people are so brilliant.
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And I'm like, how do I keep up with this person
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when I can barely keep my eyes open, right?
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And I'm sure that's why I respect you so much
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with doing eight of these in a day because some of the topics
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that you talk about, they're not light topics.
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So as a podcaster, just zoom out for people listening
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to understand what we do, we have to go into someone else's life.
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But they've been living in this domain for the past 20 years.
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And we have to find a way to keep up with them intellectually.
2:27
And even though we may not know anything about the subject
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outside of a couple hours of research.
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So combine that with doing it eight times in a row in a day
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or doing it in this like a little wet box.
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It's not easy.
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That's the part people don't realize actually.
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Yeah, yeah, they think you just show up and talk,
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but there's research.
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You got to keep up with their years of experience.
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You do.
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And I think that that's why you look at some of the best pod.
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You look at Joe Rogan.
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Joe Rogan has gotten significantly smarter.
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Since when he started podcasting to the conversations he has now.
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So I think podcasting, even if you don't do it to make money,
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I think it is one of the most intellectually challenging things
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that you can ever do.
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And I actually think it just upgrades you as a person.
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Definitely.
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I feel upgraded.
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No, I do too.
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You have to be open.
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Because if you're closed off as a host,
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it kind of ruins the flow of the show.
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Yeah.
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And I study all the great podcasts.
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Lex Freeman just did an eight hour podcast.
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I saw that.
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Isn't that great?
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It's a LinkedIn.
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Yeah, so I just started that one.
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But that's going to take me part three days to watch.
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But you have to have like, you have to, I think the best podcasters,
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like Lex does this.
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I look, you know, I study the greats too.
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I look at like like a diary of a CEO, Steven Bartlett.
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That's a great one.
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Modern wisdom blew up quick.
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Even Joe Rogan.
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You look at like the OGs, Tim Ferris.
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What they do is they are, they are experts at creating like this safe space
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where people feel comfortable just talking about whatever's top in mind for them.
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You do this too.
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You go, I see some of the guests you have on your show.
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Some of them are talking about, I know nothing about some of it is like so out there.
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I'm like, how does he, how does he get these people to open up?
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And I think it's just about being open-minded.
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And even if you have bias, you can't let it show.
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Right.
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Because the second you let it show,
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somebody is going to be like, oh, I'm being judged.
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And then all of a sudden that person is going to close off.
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So I think that I think that you do a good job of it.
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You just, you're very much like, listen, I just want to hear your story.
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I want to hear what you're all about.
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And the best podcasters in the world,
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they have this way of just creating this psychologically safe space
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and this vibe that less people open up.
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And if you can do that even without, you know, we're not drinking right now.
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And I don't think you drink on your podcast at all.
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Some podcasts, they put like a glass of liquor in front of you.
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That probably helps.
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I'm sure it does.
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But I think that if you can do it without that,
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I think it goes to show how good of a host you are.
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And how good of a communicator and an interviewer
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and just like an empathetic person that you are.
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Yeah. No, that's that's a good skill.
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People ask me for tips all the time and I'm still figuring it out.
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Like I don't even know what to say.
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But that's phenomenal advice, you know,
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providing that comfort zone because comfort zone.
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And it and it, I think it's required if you want to be a podcaster
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because if you, if you can't create that comfort zone,
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no one's going to open up and the content's going to be.
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But I think that the lesson that nonpodcasters can learn from that is,
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okay, how do I, how do I get the information that I would like out of somebody?
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And to do that, you can't be, you can't be closed off.
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I mean, there's people that study this stuff and much more depth.
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I'm just sort of, you know, from a, from a non-scientific perspective,
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just how I interact with my guests.
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But I think to do that, I think you just have to be very open
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and create a safe space for people to communicate.
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And when you do that, you get a lot more information out of it.
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And you can use that information to help you in your career,
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in your life, in your relationship.
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I think that's a skill that I think is very important.
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I also think that just to add a little bit more thought onto that particular topic,
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social media has made us very bad at that skill because we are used to being closed off,
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and we are used to living in echo chambers on Twitter, X, or Instagram,
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or whatever we're used to not having competing points of view.
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I think that that's why everyone's so angry online.
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Yeah.
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So I think that in real life, if we can sort of work and practice on that skill of being more open-minded,
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I think it just helps you to get exactly what you want.
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No, 100%. You could apply that in all areas of life.
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There's been plenty of guests I disagreed with, but you would never know.
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That's true, actually.
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Yeah, you're very much like...
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You ask questions, and I actually look for an emotional response sometimes because
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I see some of the s*** that guests say on your show.
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And some of the stuff that I see guests say, this is s*** up.
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I don't agree with this at all, but you as an interviewer,
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you're very even keeled, you're very much like,
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awesome, let's keep getting more information out.
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Let's get some context out.
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I want to understand your point of view, your perspective.
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I mean, I think it's a great way to, again, to interview, to go through life,
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not just interview, because then ultimately, not only will you get more information out,
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and you come up as not an s***.
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I think also you can get information out that could actually improve
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or educate you on your opinion if you feel differently.
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100%.
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So I think that that's just a great way to go through life.
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Yeah, and people are so quick to judge these days.
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It's crazy.
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Like, you say one bad thing and they just won't respect anything else you have to say.
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Yeah, I think that that's an issue.
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I think it's very toxic.
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And it goes back to social media echo chambers I was speaking about before,
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because the algorithms on social, all algorithms promote...
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When you post an idea, an ideological point of view or perspective,
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what every social platform does is it shows similar perspectives.
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So if someone else posts, say you're Republican Democrat,
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you're posting, and this is obviously just a very easy example.
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But if you're posting a whole bunch of stuff about pro-Trump, pro-Trump, pro-Trump,
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the algorithm is going to show you a lot of stuff that favors your point of view,
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because it wants you to engage and wants you to stay on the platform.
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And then you're going to think that everybody in the world agrees with you,
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because all you're seeing on social, all your inputs are all the same idea as what you have.
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That's how the algorithms create echo chambers. That's an echo chamber.
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So when you see somebody who disagrees with you, you're like, oh my god,
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how is this person so stupid? Because every single day, for eight hours a day,
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or whoever long people spend on social, I mean, the numbers are ridiculous,
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but whoever long you're scrolling on social, your view on everything is being reinforced by an
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algorithm. So this creates this perception that everything you think is 100% correct.
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And then the second someone says to anything differently, you're like, oh my god,
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this person is stupid. How could anybody believe this? How could anybody believe anything outside
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of what ever I see all day, every single day? And then that's what creates that,
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that anger and the sport. That's so true. And that's what happened during COVID.
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It happened even more during COVID because everybody was stuck at home. So people weren't
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even engaging in real life in person. So you weren't even having real conversations. All your
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conversations you were having with anybody was online. So it just reinforces your point of view
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and your perspective to the point where you believe you start to believe it, your perspective is
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the only right one. And then that creates this, I don't know, it creates this very toxic environment.
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Yeah. I think the feed should probably show both sides somehow.
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It does. It totally, sorry, I had to answer.
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I'm saying these feed should maybe change their algorithm to show both sides instead of just one side.
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Completely, yeah, I agree completely, but I don't think that incentivizes
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user time on the platform. Yeah, I don't think it incentivizes the metric that these platforms
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really want to really want to incentivize. I think they want people to stay on the platform.
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I think they want people to be within a community. I think they want people to, I don't know,
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that's an interesting perspective. Yeah. Because it would be a total, it would be a total algorithm
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shift from what everyone is doing right now. Because right now algorithms show you content that you
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like, you know, air quotes like. So if it showed you const, if it consistently showed you content
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that you maybe didn't like, maybe that wouldn't keep people, I'm sure there's a lot of insight
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and research into why algorithms do the things that they do. I just think that we're,
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I think that we are maybe not optimizing for the metrics that are in the best interest of
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society in the person. Right. I think we're optimizing for the metrics that are in the best
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interest of the social platforms because that's how they make money. So agreed. And they're also
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destroying, you know, attention span. They destroyed attention span. But I don't know how,
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I don't know how you would fundamental because the, the incentives drive the behavior and the
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incentives are shareholder value and the incentives are revenue. How do you change that?
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That's a tough ask question, dude. I don't know how you change that. You're telling me that you,
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you want Twitter to make less money and Facebook to make less money and Instagram to make less money.
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I don't see that being outside of outside of perhaps government intervention or I know some
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people are working on alternative social platforms and democratizing social and not monetizing
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user data to the same degree as what these companies do. But right now, being convinced,
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they're so entrenched and they're so part of our daily lives, I think it's tough to change.
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We're in deep three seconds. Three second attention span now, humans have for real.
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Is that true? That's wild. Well, it was a new study. I don't know what that's been proven
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many times over. I think that makes, I think that actually is, I think that a three second attention span,
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obviously that's, you know, that's, that's just regarding social media. But if we talk about a younger
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generation and, and the, the need for instant gratification, I think that that plays a part of it.
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Yeah. I think that need for instant dopamine hits, instant delivery with Amazon Prime,
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instant food, instant, you know, TV on demand, Netflix, whatever, everything is instant, right?
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And I think that that really, it really screws up your perception of what, of how you should operate
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in this world to actually achieve what you want. Because when everything, when all these tiny
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little inconsequential things are handed to you immediately, the things that you should, that
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actually make an impact. So your career or the amount of time you put into a business as an entrepreneur,
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all the things that will actually impact your life in a positive way. I'm not talking about
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getting your dinner in the next 30 minutes. I'm not talking about, you know, seeing a cool thing
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on your phone that you're going to, you're going to forget about in, you know, apparently three seconds
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later. I'm talking about things that will actually move your life in a positive direction.
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I think that all this instant overnight gratification has ruined our ability, not everybody's,
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but a lot of people that grew up with this has ruined a younger generation's ability
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to understand the time required to achieve significant things. So I think that then when you live
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in this instant gratification world, it's very hard to understand how to commit five or ten or
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fifteen or twenty years of your life to something. And I think that that's screwing up a lot of
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people because they think that, well, if everything in my life is instant, why can't my business
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success be instant? If everything in my life is instant, why can my career success be instant?
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I see all these people that are killing it on social media. Why can't my business be making
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a million dollars a month in six months? Because that's not reality. That's some, that's some
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architected reality that somebody put out onto social, but that architected reality that
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fate reality just reinforced by all the other things that come to you overnight right away.
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Like it's not your fingers. So I think that we have to really understand the investment in time
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and energy in bandwidth it takes to make something great. And if people understood that, if people
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understood the amount of time, the amount of energy and the amount of work, I mean, you've done
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how many episodes like 900? Yeah, almost 900. 900 episodes? Yeah. That's wild.
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And technically in a very short period of time. You're in a half. So if somebody wants to build a
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podcast, I mean, most podcasts, they fill out after ten episodes, right? Or I don't even know
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if they make it to ten episodes. So if somebody wants to build a significant podcast or a significant
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anything, commit to recording 900 episodes. Exactly. And even if it's not in the time frame that
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you did it, even if it's over 10 years, it doesn't matter because you're putting in the reps.
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Right. So 900 episodes over 10 years is still going to be a good show.
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Absolutely. 900 reps over five. You're still going to be a good show. But people think they want
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like instant overnight gratification, success, everything. And it's just toxic.
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I feel like I didn't get good podcasting until like episode 200 or 300 to be honest, you know?
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100% and you just like what you did is you can press time by putting in more work than most
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people are comfortable putting in. Like I wasn't comfortable putting in that much work when I started
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my show. I didn't do 900 episodes in what like two years or years or whatever it is. I mean,
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I do two episodes a week, which is more than most. It's just still more than most.
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Just still more than most. And I looked at like John Lee Dumas who did entrepreneurs on fire.
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He was putting out five episodes a week. And I'm like, dude, you're nuts. Like I don't know how
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to even manage that. But I think that the point is whether or not it's five episodes a week or
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you're putting like two or three episodes a day at some point, it's like, wow, or it's two episodes
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a week. Like the lesson is find a way within your band with your comfort zone to stay in it for
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an unreasonable amount of time. Right. Give it so much time that it's unreasonable for you to be
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unsuccessful at it. I think that's Armosia, some variant of that quote, but it's 100% true.
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Like my rule is a 10 year rule. If I'm going to build anything worth building, I want to commit 10
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years of my life to that thing. Yeah. Because over to it's not 10 years of doing things that don't
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work in 10 years of beating your head against the wall. It's 10 years of learning and improving
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and iterating and optimizing. Maybe a pivot here or there. But the point is when you commit 10 years
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of your life to something, you are, you are setting yourself up for success psychologically,
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because you know how long it's going to take. And when you set yourself up for that, you have
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realistic expectations. But also if you're going to say, I'm going to commit to this thing for 10
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years. Okay. Now what does the rest of my life look like? I only have $50,000 in my bank account
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right now. So can I really do this thing for 10 years if I quit my job? Well, no, the answer is no,
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you can't. So maybe you find a way to structure it. So you're still working your nine to five and
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you're building your thing from five to nine or on the weekends. But the point is you're structuring
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your life so you can commit to this for the long haul, which will ultimately lead to you being
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successful at that thing. So I think that when you have this this long term vision and this
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long term mindset, that's what sets you up for success psychologically and in like the practical
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day to day of how do I build this thing? Well, not running out of money to pay rent or pay the
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bills or support my family. And when you can set yourself up like that, that's I think I think that
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you know, the old, not the old, but the the common trope with entrepreneurship is like you have
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like a 95% failure rate. Yeah. I think when you think in a 10 year mindset, I think you
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inverse that. I think you have a 95% success rate because there's not many people who I know
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who commit to doing something for 10 years and show up every single day for 10 years
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and aren't some version of successful at that thing. Oh, it's very hard. I can't think of any.
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It's very hard. If you've got to find a way to architect your environment, your life,
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your business so that you can commit to that long. Right. And that's that's great advice because
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like you said, this instant gratification error is tough. I mean, as someone that's hiring
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employees, you must be seeing this on a daily basis. I have. I'm so I think that it impacts,
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it impacts people differently. So a lot of my team right now and I'm going to have this problem soon
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because I'm building out a studio for my show right now in person. Yeah. And a lot of these
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interviews are going to be in person where for a period of my show, a lot of it was virtual.
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But obviously the in person is a better conversation. It's a better experience. It's more real.
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And then we discussed that's very important for getting good content.
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But most of my team up to this point has been virtual. So I haven't had a huge issue with it.
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But I have heard from friends who have tried to hire in the US in South Florida in particular
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that hiring in person people in the US right now is a pain in the ass. Everyone seems entitled.
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Everyone I had I'm not going to name names, but one of my good friends he tried he's tried to hire.
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I'm sure a lot of videographers he wants to create content. And he's a nice guy like I know him.
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I know I'm very well as a nice guy. He's not like there's some people would be okay, maybe it's like
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not like the not like the employees the issue. This guy is one of the nicest guys,
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most generous guys I've ever known. And he's probably gone through like 10 videographers.
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But the **** that I hear this is a wild story that never existed. He hired a guy W2.
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So like salary hired a salary guy. So this is like this is your salary. This is a job.
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And I mean I haven't worked a W2 in a while. But like when I took a job and I took the salary like
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there was no there was nothing that was unclear to me. I knew what the job was. I knew what the salary was.
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Guy signs the contract first week that he shows up to work. He after he signs the contract,
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he wants to renegotiate for a higher salary in his first week of work. Wow. This is not like a
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contractor. This is a guy that's salary that would ever 70k or something like that in the in
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South Florida for videography work for full-time content. I mean the issue is not that he wants more
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money. That's his prerogative. The issue is that if you want more money, first of all you have to
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negotiate before you sign a contract. It's like the whole concept of work is skewed. I've never
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heard of this in my life where somebody would try to negotiate a contract after they sign a contract.
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It doesn't make sense to me. Again when I when I when I apply for a job went through the interview
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process, got my offer, negotiated, agreed, signed, went to work. So I've heard a lot of
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stories like this about trying to hire and it seems to be I don't know. It can't be like a
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all across the US but I think in some in some parts of the US especially lifestyle cities like my
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end. I think that it's very hard to find people who want to work. I think it's very difficult and
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I don't know how you solve for that. I think that I think that maybe finding ways to to create more
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of a work life balance or to align that person's the company's goals with the goals of that person.
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I think could be a way to solve for that. But I think we're in this really awkward stage where
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I think COVID showed people what life could be like if they work from home which is no problem
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with that at all. But I think that also the reality is is if you're going to work from home when
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you want a high salary, I think you have to put the reps in first and maybe do the not so fun work
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and then not so fun job to get your career started and then you can demand more. And I think
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what people are doing now is they're demanding more without having the accolades or the background
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to really warrant that type of that type of environment. So I think that you have a lot of entitlement.
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I think that you have a lot of, again, like I mentioned, people trying to fast forward their
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career without putting in the reps. And I think that I don't know where it's going to go. I just
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think it makes hiring harder. I think it makes building a business harder. I think it makes
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everything harder. So I think that this is something that if you are if you are young in your
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career and you're willing to go to an office or like to do the things that everybody else did,
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I think that you will have an advantage. I think that this is where you can shine. Yeah.
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If you are, if you are willing to do tough work for a period of time, like everyone else did,
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I think this is where you're going to come out on top. All right. Because I think a lot of people
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are, are very entitled in their career. A lot of comparison too. Yeah. Social media.
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Well, that's a thing. Like, I mean, you look at social and it's also because a lot of people
22:01
are architecting their lives to portray this certain thing that isn't even true. Right.
22:06
So like, why are you comparing yourself to something that isn't even true, right? But
22:11
that's why for me, even when I'm building my own business, when I'm building my own podcast,
22:17
I'm like, I'm not focusing on what anyone else is doing. I'm just focusing on building out the
22:21
best thing for me. I'm focusing on being the best interviewer. I'm focusing on, you know,
22:25
having the most beautiful studio. I'm focusing on doing the research on the best cameras that will
22:30
create the, you know, the best YouTube video. Like, I'm focusing on creating the best product and
22:34
always upskilling myself and upskilling my company and upskilling my or developing my podcasts.
22:40
And if I consistently do that, and I'll learn from people that are doing it at a higher level,
22:44
but I'm not worried about them. I'm worried about me. I'm worried about bettering me. So if I look
22:49
at anyone else, it's only to learn and to understand and to study. It's never to,
22:56
it's never to, you know, like be sad that I'm not there. I don't give a **** that I'm not there.
23:02
I fully believe that if I do all the things that someone else does and I reverse engineer their
23:08
success and I understand all the different things that they've included, they've incorporated into
23:12
their show and to their team and to their social media strategy, I will eventually get there.
23:17
So it's just about learning, understanding, putting in the reps,
23:19
doing the work, figuring out how to do it better, learning how to interview better,
23:23
reading books on asking questions, whatever it is. But I think that that is, I think that's the,
23:28
the hard work that people want to skip when they start something new and they look at somebody
23:33
else and they play this comparison game. And I think you're setting yourself up for failure.
23:38
Oh, yeah, I used to play that game. We all did. It was terrible. You can't because it's,
23:42
you're never going to get there as fast as you think you will, but you will get there.
23:47
So that comparison game is just toxic. It's super toxic. So big step for me too was realizing no
23:55
one gives a **** about you. Like that to me was like a life changing revelation moment because I
24:00
used to really care about how people perceive it. Putting yourself out online. Yeah. Yeah. I used to
24:04
like not put myself out online because I was so scared of being judged. Yeah. No one really gave
24:09
a **** once I started doing it. No. I haven't worried about that too much because I've seen
24:16
some ridiculous online. So in my mind, I'm like, listen, if you're not a ****, if you're not like
24:23
a piece of ****, if you're not racist, which hopefully hopefully I'm not, hopefully I'm not
24:31
anybody. If I'm just putting out what I believe in online and I'm putting out who I am online,
24:36
there's going to be people that don't like that. But I don't care if people don't like me if I'm a
24:41
good person who's trying to, you know, do better in the world or create great content. I mean,
24:46
I think that if you if you do get pushback or if people do talk about the stuff that you're putting
24:52
out online, I think maybe use it as an opportunity to learn and see if any of you do better. But
24:58
ultimately you can't let it impact you because there's always going to be people that don't like you.
25:01
There's people that don't like mother Teresa. Like, what are you going to do? Like,
25:05
it comes, it comes with the game, right? Even Mr. Beast. He's getting a ton of heat right now.
25:09
Mr. Beast is getting a ton of heat for a lot of reason. But what I'm saying is he's done so much
25:14
good. He's done so much good. And even before like not to take this podcast and not make it ever
25:19
green, but even before what's happening literally right now with Mr. Beast, there's still people
25:23
to hate it. There's people to hate it in first personality. But even though he's literally like
25:27
outside of the movie he's making. He's doing such like philanthropic and charity wine and stuff like
25:32
that. People always people always talk. So I mean, this is one of the best ways. I can't remember
25:41
who told me this, but the the the quote is more or less. People already have an opinion of you.
25:50
Whether or not you're online or not, people will already form an opinion by putting yourself out
25:56
online. You just get a chance to shape that narrative. So people will already have an opinion of
26:03
you. Right. So know that positive and negative. So if you put yourself out online, the best possible
26:09
outcome is that you just get a chance to skew that slightly more in your favor. Agreed.
26:15
People will still hate you, but ultimately it doesn't affect you. Yeah. How's that happening
26:19
when you interviewed someone and you had an opinion going into the episode on how they would act
26:23
and stuff? Have I had an opinion going in? I try trying to think for me it was Grand Cardone.
26:30
That was a big one for me. You asked me about Grand Cardone. The first time we did an interview.
26:35
Oh, did I? Yeah, you did. And I said, I didn't really have a problem with him. I said, I said,
26:40
I think that, okay, so Grand Cardone to me is like an Andrew Tate. Grand Cardone has a persona
26:47
that he puts out online that accomplishes a business objective. I mean, I'd have a different
26:56
perspective if he was fraud or if he was scamming people. But so far, the lawsuits against him
27:02
haven't held up. But I've spoken to people that are really into real estate and they're like, listen,
27:07
if you look at his disclosures in his agreement and his offering memorandums, you read through
27:13
exactly what he does is pretty black and white. I mean, I think the people that talk a lot of
27:19
because they want, I mean, there's a lot of channels that just talk about famous people because
27:24
they know that it drives views to their channel. But I don't think he's doing anything fraudulent
27:29
because he has these exceptionally long legal agreements whenever he raises money for a building.
27:36
Maybe people don't read them, but that doesn't mean he's doing anything fraudulent. So I think
27:41
that he has a personality online. He's figured out a formula that works. Tate has a personality
27:45
online. He figured out a formula that works. I mean, you can like him or not like his personality.
27:52
But from a business lens, what they're doing is very smart. They have a business objective
27:58
that they're accomplishing. So when somebody like that comes on, again, the difference would be
28:02
if you're actually fraudulent or if you're actually a piece of ****, that's when I will not like you.
28:07
But if you have a personality and ultimately the output of what you're doing is a net positive,
28:12
I mean, what he's teaching people is to sell. I don't, I don't agree with his sales methods,
28:16
but he is teaching people how to sell. He's returning investors money. And I guess outside of that,
28:23
he's kind of like just like the sick ra ra, you know, grab life by the balls and do more and be
28:28
more kind of personality. That's not inherently a bad thing. Like I don't mind if somebody's
28:33
lighting a fire under people's asses. I think that there could be better role models.
28:38
But I think that it's better to go out and try and make more money and try and improve yourself
28:44
as an entrepreneur or as a man than not. I mean, that's sort of my net takeaway from either
28:50
grant or Andrew, really. But yeah, it's so funny. So you ask me, you ask me, do I have these
28:58
preconceived notions or biases when people come into my show?
29:03
Very, very rarely because again, the people that I like to bring onto my show, I don't mind if
29:09
they have different opinions. All I care about is if they are who they say they are.
29:13
If they are who they say they are and they aren't hurting anybody, that's what's important to
29:17
me because I want to understand how they think. I would have more issue if somebody is claiming to
29:23
be some whatever Instagram, business leader, private jets that are rented, Lambo that's rented for
29:31
a photo shoot, saying they can open up like some sort of Amazon drop shipping store and you go on,
29:40
you know, you look them up and there's nothing but people saying they've lost like 50, 60,000
29:44
of this person they never filled on the on the deliverables that they promised. That to me is an
29:48
issue. That to me is not wild personality. That to me is just fraudulent. That's the difference.
29:54
And I don't like to have those people on my show. So no, I don't really have, I don't really hate
29:59
anybody calling him, but it's interesting you asked me about Grant because yeah, I remember you
30:02
asked me about him the first time. I was wondering where that question came. No, it's just so,
30:06
I interviewed him after you, but it's just so interesting because going up to that one,
30:10
I was really trying to get it out of my head about the scammer thing because he was getting a lot of
30:14
heat at the time. Yeah, he was. And the Scientology thing. So I was trying to just be open,
30:18
but it was tough. Well, I think yeah, I mean, Scientology thing is a little bit wild. Yeah, I didn't
30:23
ask it on that one. I mean, maybe next time people can believe whatever the
30:28
want to believe doesn't matter to me. Just don't force it on me. Right. I know Scientology,
30:35
like how how Grant, I think Grant learned a lot from Scientology in terms of how he structures his
30:40
business because Scientology is a is a very, very good sales organization. They're very good at
30:47
getting their members. They've got me really streets of LA. No idea of Scientology. So while he pulled
30:52
me inside, I wrote down my email and everything. I had no idea in Scientology. They'll make you,
30:56
they'll make you spend a lot of money. Like they have sales techniques, right? So when you,
31:00
I mean, this is anecdotal. I've actually never been involved in Scientology, but this is sort of
31:04
like second hand. So it takes with the grain of salt. I could be totally speaking out of my ass.
31:06
I don't know. But from what I have heard, Scientology does a lot of like mastermind style events,
31:13
and they have people running around and upselling you into next programs and courses and
31:17
and I think that a lot of grants sales architecture for some of his stuff comes from some of the
31:23
ways that Scientology gets his members to spend more money. So I mean, a strong sale strategy,
31:30
I guess it's a strong sale strategy. Again, I don't agree with this type of sale strategy because
31:34
I do come from a sales background. But it works for him. I don't know. It's, yeah, I don't really
31:41
have a comment on Scientology. Not the controversial one. How's your social club mastermind speaking of
31:48
events? It's good. It's tough. We were actually just talking about that not to break the fourth
31:52
while two months, but I was talking about how to put on live events and it's a pain in the ass
31:56
of a business. A lot of logistics, right? It's a lot. It's a lot. And I think that, you know,
32:02
just like an entrepreneur perspective going in, I think that when you think about starting a new
32:08
business, you have to think about how to use leverage. Leverage is the most important thing as
32:13
an entrepreneur, right? So like there's capital, there's there's there's people, there's technology,
32:17
there's media. And I think that the more types of leverage you can use for your business, the easier
32:23
it can be. So a lot of people, when they start a business, I mean, you don't have a huge workforce
32:29
working for your day. One, most people don't have a media presence. And some people are techie,
32:34
that's why software eats the world, but not everyone's techie, so they just use capital.
32:38
And I think that for a mastermind or in-person networking business, like the only thing that you
32:43
really have access to immediately for most people is capital. Because technology doesn't really
32:47
help you. People, you don't have a team when you first start and media, you don't have a media
32:51
presence. So for me, it's a very difficult business to start. So from just sort of like what businesses
32:59
should I spend more time in if I wasn't already doing it? Sort of like the lesson learned is
33:04
find a business where you can use more points of leverage because it'll help you get it off the
33:08
ground. Right. A little bit quicker. Now I'm fortunately have media leverage and capital leverage,
33:13
but I didn't have a team when I first started it out. So it was a lot of logistics and work and
33:16
hiring event planners and all this. Right. But I think that that's actually something you should
33:20
think about. So how do I edit those four types of leverage? And that's a, a, a, a, a, a, that's a
33:24
tweet thread on those four types of leverage, out of those four types of leverage to finance
33:29
people, technology and media. What can I deploy to get this business off the ground quicker,
33:34
which will just basically compress the time from getting it going to when it's a financially
33:39
viable product market fit business? Yeah. And in person events, masterminds are paying in the
33:44
ass. They are paying in the ass to get going. And I think that's why you actually see a lot,
33:49
and I come from a tech background. So this, I, I understand, and I can feel the difference.
33:54
And I can feel the friction in taking a tech product off the ground, which is also not easy,
33:58
but I feel like there's less risk when you have a tech product and a developed,
34:03
like a CTO developer co-founder versus when you try and put this in person physical event business
34:09
together because you have tech product, you can get the developer as a co-founder to develop the
34:14
product. You can, if you're a marketer, you know, you know how to generate organic traffic,
34:20
you can convert organic traffic, take that money, roll it into ads, sort of scale that way.
34:25
With an event business, without even making a sale, you have venue, you have insurance,
34:32
you have speaker costs, you have, I mean, you have staff that are going to be working the event,
34:38
you have food and bev, like you have like $50-$100,000 startup costs for like one event that's
34:42
no guaranteed sales. So the risk profile in the business is much higher, which I think
34:47
it makes a lot of sense if you want to put a lot of money into it to start it off, to test it out,
34:52
or if you already have a business and you can find a way to add this on when you're already a
34:56
revenue generating business. So the issue that I had is the podcast is a podcast, and the mastermind
35:03
is the mastermind, and they're not technically tied together. There's some pieces that overlap,
35:07
and even with an audience, I have a little bit less friction than the average person,
35:11
but I think that that's just like the lesson learned. Yeah.
35:13
Is find a way to reduce the amount of friction as much as possible, and I think that in person
35:17
anything is like a high friction high risk business. Super high. Yeah. I had to learn from
35:22
Flatian, so I have a... Yeah, he does aspire and all that. That was tough. Yeah, no, it's tough.
35:27
So I have events, and I wasn't able to use leverage to get a free venue, use my leverage for my
35:32
connections to get good speakers. It'd be tough, dude. Super tough. I mean, I've been doing them for
35:36
five years. I haven't made any money off them directly, but indirectly with the people I meet,
35:40
you know, has turned the money. Now, that's the thing. Like, if you can figure it out, then obviously
35:44
it can be a great business. Right. And like, I would group like masterminds in the same category,
35:49
like in-person masterminds and the same category is like conferences and stuff like that. Like,
35:53
I have a friend right now who's trying to put on for the first time ever a larger conference,
35:58
and I'm sort of just watching him, and he's doing the GaryVee content style where you document
36:04
everything you're doing on your journey. And it's a lot, dude. It's a lot. Like, it's just like
36:11
a lot to get people into a room and find a way to monetize that to the point where it's a viable
36:16
business model. So I think just like, for entrepreneurs listening, don't just hop on the mastermind
36:23
bandwagon because you see up like Tony Robbins charging $100,000 per year per person for like
36:28
this platinum level membership, right? I think that focus on the business that you have the
36:34
best chance of succeeding in, and I think there's other businesses that are easier to start.
36:37
Way easier. Yeah. Yeah. I see them as mainly just networking. Yeah. I see it as I see it as more
36:42
of a value add. Right. A value add to an existing business, then like a siloed isolated business
36:49
model on its own. Agreed. I think with a spire, I think I can't remember how they got that off
36:55
the ground. You know the story of a spire. I don't. I know Dan joined pretty late, though.
36:59
Like they're already running. But yeah, I'm so curious if they had a business and they funded it
37:03
through another business or if they just they had to have because the conferences are probably
37:06
a million to put on. Yeah. I mean, like, so if you're putting it, and you also have cash flow
37:11
issues, right? Right. So a lot of the people for the conferences, they want payment before the
37:15
actual conference takes place. Yep. The speakers. Yeah. Yeah. They want they want money at front.
37:19
I mean, and you're selling tickets right to right to the actual conference date. And there's
37:24
sometimes you're selling tickets at the door too. So I mean, that could, unless, unless your tickets
37:29
are grossly expensive or you have, you know, some couple thousand people, you, you're going to
37:34
have massive cash flow issues. You're losing money. This is yourself. Yeah. So I, from what I've
37:39
seen, because I've been to three of them, yeah, they do a pitch every show. Yeah. And I'm pretty
37:43
sure that's where they make a majority of their money. Of course, but imagine the million dollars
37:46
that you have to spend to get people in the room to be able to make that. You got to float it.
37:48
And you can no longer just put a big name on it. It'll sell out. No, you have to market it. No,
37:53
you have to market it. You have, or you have to get somebody, because all the, all the guys that do
37:57
like the, the speaking, speaking for pay that you see everywhere, everywhere, like their stuff is
38:02
new anymore. So if you want to get somebody, I mean, so I, so I was at inbound, like HubSpots,
38:09
big conference in Boston last year. And they had like Barack Obama. Like the first year that I
38:15
spoke there and they had, I think Reese Witherspoon, like the second year in this year, they have a
38:20
Ryan Reynolds, like they have like people that aren't accessible, really not accessible. But I'm
38:25
sure they're paying. I think Barack is like $500,000 to get them on stage. So I mean, it takes a lot
38:32
of money to get people that aren't just speakers for hire, right? But that will get people to your
38:37
event. But I mean, most people don't want to put $500,000 into a maybe, like you're going to get
38:42
them there for sure. But, but outside of the security and logistics, are you really going to sell
38:49
enough your first time selling from stage to make up that 500 grand plus all your, all your event
38:56
expenses? No, probably not. No, it's tough, dude. It's tough. Very tough. Scott, who's coming on
39:01
next and who's your dream guest? Who's my dream guest? Who's coming on next? I have a lot of
39:08
people coming on next. I can't remember. I can't remember who it is right now. I'm not as far
39:12
behind as you, but I'm a little bit behind. I'm probably like two months behind. Okay. That's pretty,
39:16
pretty, pretty good. Well, I had to, I had to get my sh** together because guests are getting mad.
39:25
I was six months behind. So I had to get my sh** together. And also when we like talking about
39:30
something and it's, it's time-bound and relevant. Right. I also don't want it to be like so,
39:37
so far in the past. Yeah. So I'm about two months behind now. Dream guests.
39:43
The dream guests are like, listen, I'm coming for the Tim Ferriss's of the world. I want to be
39:49
that level of, so as do you. I mean, you want to get Elon and you want to get Zuck and you want to
39:54
get, you want to get Bezos. You want to get, I mean, you want to get presidential candidates on
39:59
and Trump just didn't look like you want to be at that level. All podcasters do. So we're going
40:04
on. Oh, yeah. The big four. Yeah. We'll see you guys there first. We'll have a little friendly
40:08
competition. Awesome. Scott, thanks for coming out. Where can we find the podcasts and everything?
40:12
Pretty easy. All the socials at.declary and podcast is success story podcast up. Awesome.
40:17
Thanks for watching guys. We'll link below. Check them out. Peace.
40:34
You