Latest / Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025 / Complacency enables lateral violence

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Complacency enables lateral violence · Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025

• Marina Crane: ⁓ it's Marina Crane, May 7th, 2026. I'm going to play ⁓ three little audios, ⁓ which to me were insightful and had me thinking. And after I record the three and that you listen to them, I will comment on each one and ⁓ just my own information and some clarity in how I see certain things. why I think it's important to know things because things don't seem cut and dry, especially when you're in a community or in an area where there's a lot of lateral violence and disrespect for personal boundaries, as well as just trying to get people to understand that there have been some misunderstandings. Now that might seem like, ⁓ well, that's just being human. I'm sorry. I think one of the reasons I'm doing this is because I have allergies and I'm constantly coughing right now. So I will proceed as soon as I can and then just go straight into each of the three. as soon as I can get this going. Sorry about that. I'm trying out this new audio here. Social or ⁓ People do it all the time, push on people. Oh, let bygones be bygones. You're just an old guy. He's demented. Don't worry about it. No, he did terrible things to you. And you need to acknowledge the reality of what he did to you. And maybe, at some point, love yourself hard enough to say, I'm okay. Anyway, despite what you did to me. One of the things that happened with me with my dad, which was so remarkable, I saw the vulnerability in him. The last words he ever said to me was, I'm not the parent. you needed or wanted. I always loved you. That's beautiful. I got that I'm sorry. So I was able to release it. And the thing for me that forgiveness has been so powerful for was I no longer carry the feelings I have towards what he did to me. So I feel free. I can love him now. And I'm not holding the anger and resentment. If it's done in the right way, it can be totally freeing. And I say forgiveness after healing. see lot of the times when I talk about forgiveness ⁓ I didn't really understand it because ⁓ again I think there's a lot of resentment or you don't you don't understand like the freedom what is it it's sort of like an illusion or a delusion because it's out there that you can't grasp because it hasn't happened to you yet so so for example ⁓ about ⁓ what, 49 years ago, I lost both my uncle and my dad within a span of 10 months. And I just felt like totally like, ⁓ my goodness, I'd been sexually assaulted ⁓ about four years prior. And I didn't want either of them to do any kind of retaliatory action. I just said to the RCMP, I didn't want to do anything out of shame and just humiliation. ⁓ But again, too, I didn't understand healing means you have to feel the humiliation, you have to feel all that. But how do you do that? How do you do that? Like, how do you do that when your support, the men in your life who protected you die? And for me at the time, I just thought, OK, I can do this on my own. and A lot of people who've known me before Nathan Chasing Horse ⁓ just say, well, Marini, you've always acted like on your own, you know, whatever conflict you've had with your family, you've always had to be on your own. And see a lot of people after Nathan Chasing Horse sort of incorporate Nathan Chasing Horse with the disparities within my family or the conflicts without boundaries. But no, no, people who knew me before, this has been an ongoing ⁓ reality in my life about forgiveness. So I projected this illusion or delusion that if I lived a certain way, like in terms of controlling my addictions, even the thought of controlling is also an addiction. So I wasn't, I was fooling myself thinking I was getting rid of an addiction when really I was holding on to the apparatus of what makes it the addiction. Like there was a friend of my late uncles and I thought if I just live this way and I try my best eventually like this fellow who had a history of ⁓ cheating on his wife. I don't know why I thought eventually someday I would hook up with him and happily ever after Disneyland fairy tale. Like that's what the illusion or delusion is. you know, a false premise. I think it's like having the cross and saying, ⁓ I, you know, I bow and I do this and make vows so that you're going to have enlightenment or get to heaven. Well, my heaven was, if I live this way, this will happen. And eventually, you know, the fellow did approach me and I just thought, no, no. I just was not ready and I didn't understand the concept of forgiveness again. So throughout my life there were men that come into my life and I'm going, okay, if I just continue behaving a certain way thinking that that's the man's standards, that he would be attracted to me because that's something similar. But it's unobtainable because again, you would have to get to know the fellow at a very intimate level. And if you haven't learned to forgive yourself, how can you do that? Because whoever you're holding back that unforgivable thing has trapped you in a cycle of abuse of self-loathing or self-defeating behavior because you're not allowing yourself to become intimate. So when this fellow talks about, you know, like people say, oh, just, you know, they're old and everything. No, there is a purpose behind being forgiven. or even to not forgive, but to just make restitution with yourself. See, when ⁓ I was talking with the two of the ladies, the mom and daughter, before they went in to do their victim statements, ⁓ there was, we'll call him, gave him the name Wachashtawaste, which in Dakota means good man. He wanted to take some photos. And I thought about it and I thought, no, this mom and daughter have been victims of a male, of a man, even though both had had It was still the notion having a voyeur, a man taking photos or being present. And I said to them, I said, I'd sooner just have women. And so I gifted them two star blankets and I said a little prayer and smudged the star blankets and. and spoke to them and I was talking about forgiveness and how important that it is to confront your abuser like in an impact statement. I said you're going to be getting up there and telling this man, Nathan Chasing Horse, how he hurt you. Now you can see them ⁓ on YouTube. That's Lynette Adams and her daughter, Sierra. And you will listen to their stories. I told them it's going to be very painful. to get up and let him know how he hurt you. But the important thing is whether or not he has the ability to ⁓ look and say, I'm sorry, it doesn't matter. said, what's important is that you're facing a fear, this fear this man instilled in you, and you're learning to forgive yourself for not doing anything about it, for not disclosing. for not seeking help or for just not being there when somebody depended on you or whatever reason, the inability to just step back and actually take a look at what this man, how dangerous he was. And the fact that they spent like 14 years, I mean, it's an amazing story. ⁓ Like so many decades. Like Lynette knew him since she was 14 and her daughter knew him since she was three. So it's like, it's like, you know, they welcomed him in like a family member. So that's why when I talk about ⁓ collective and holistic communities, I can talk about Indigenous communities and not just that, but just families in general. That when you stand up and you let the person know that they hurt you without any repercussions that they're going to come and beat you up or yell at you or you know, just say horrible things that aren't true. You still have that space to do it. You still have that courage to stand up and say, no, this isn't right. Now, what does it all have to do with everyday living? Well, the other day, ⁓ this young Indigenous man, I was having a low sugar count and I was asking for help and all these men came. Now, I'd already talked to various people to help me because I couldn't get apple juice or anything to help me with my sugar. I'm in a desperate state wanting that right away because it was really dangerous. They were all confused and this young man said to me that I was being belligerent and that I should leave, which was an insult to me because that was not my intent. In the roundabout way, I got an apology from this young man's supervisor. However, a few days later I went back and requested help with my, because I'm handicapped. And the same security guard came up and said, I'm not going to help you because you're you're belligerent. And I said, I thought this was all resolved. I said, because your supervisor apologized on on your behalf. So again, what does it have to do forgive for forgiveness? Well, for me, ⁓ having the ability to be assertive and to speak my truth when somebody who doesn't even know me is projecting something on me that maybe he has traumatic issues with his. grandmother, his mother, his auntie, his sister, and because I'm an Indigenous woman, he's got all this anger in his heart, not even knowing who I am. And this is typical, not just with him, but I've had history of that. And for me, ⁓ as an elder, when people give me tobacco to pray, I have to acknowledge to the people who give me the tobacco that if they see anybody bullying me or ⁓ mansplaying me or just making misogynistic statements towards me that they need to protect me. Because I will still stand my ground because I've learned to forgive. ⁓ Because you're letting the person know how they hurt you. And if a person just continues to keep on thinking that there are so many Indigenous women that are just so bitter and they keep on projecting this false narrative on us, then this young man is going to keep on projecting all his anger and hate, not just young men, but young women too. So I didn't know this. This has been decades, almost 30, 40 years now that I took the perpetrator to court and stood in front of a judge. And he had handcuffs on, like Nathan Chasinghorse was handcuffed too. And I said to my perpetrator that he hurt me. It was one thing they went through the whole, like what happened and all this, but it was another thing for the sentencing for me to give my statement so that he knew how he heard me. And even after he was released after his sentence, because in Canada, I think the maximum is four years. So even afterwards, I still ⁓ had, I've worked around him in the same team. And whenever he tried to give me attitude, I would just confront him. I mean really, he started stalking me at places where I would go visit for at least two years. If I hadn't taken him to court and if I hadn't stood my ground to let him know he hurt me, I wouldn't have had to be assertive enough to realize like this man has a serious problem. He cannot register what he's done. And it's the same thing with Nathan Chasing Horse saying it's a breach of justice. know arrogance, profound arrogance that he doesn't... He's so dangerous, he doesn't realize the actions he's done to children have hurt them permanently for the rest of their lives. So again, he's done something unforgivable. And the only reason it's unforgivable is because he cannot process what he's done. Whereas some people can process what they've done, like in this narrative that I played for you, where the father... ⁓ apologized to the son and the son was able to forgive him. Those things, those dynamics are understandable because it has to do with something forgivable. And again, the person who was the perpetrator is actually acknowledging that they could have been a better father, or in some cases they could be a better mother. Like with my mother, sometimes she'd be so hurtful to me and she'd say, I don't even understand why I'm saying it. She said, I just hear myself saying it. I can't stop myself. So you've got to understand the whole dynamics of what is forgivable, because these things are sometimes out of the control of the individual who's suffered a lot of trauma ⁓ to have that compassion for people. then again, to having that compassion, you get to have the boundaries of understanding how dangerous some other people are. Now, I'm going to... ⁓ play another, ⁓ let's see, this one has to do with a little bit more on... ⁓ and these really military helping generate targeting lists across the US and in Gaza. He was an early investor in Facebook. He's now worth about $8 billion. He spent a significant portion of that fortune building one thing, JD Vance. They met in 2011 at Yale Law School where Teal was giving a talk. Vance approached him afterwards. Teal became his mentor, his employer, his financier, his political kingmaker. He hired Vance at his venture capital firm. Vance's own firm. He wrote the blurb on Vance's book and then in 2022 he donated 15 million dollars to Vance's Senate run, the largest individual donation to a single Senate race in American history. Then he walked Vance into Mar-a-Lago literally and personally introduced him to Donald Trump even though Vance had called Donald Trump Hitler in public. The man one heartbeat from the presidency was quite literally assembled by a billionaire who has publicly and right now get out your pen, write notes. said, Teal said, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible, end quote, and it's not a misquote, search it now about those Epstein files. Teal's name appears over 2,200 times across Epstein's emails, schedules and documents. The two had lunch in November 2017, nine years after Epstein's conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor. Epstein invested $40 million into funds co-managed by Teal and Epstein was actively brokering introductions between Teal and the Israeli officials including a dinner in 2014 arranged by Epstein himself. Teal denies, course, denies wrongdoing. The calendar entries don't have opinions. Meanwhile, Palantir, Teal's company, signed a strategic partnership with Israel's Ministry of Defense in 2024. Their CEO, a Palantir, said publicly, that we are supporting Israel in every way we can. Palantir's own CEO has also acknowledged in his words that their product is used on occasion to kill people. This is the man who built your vice president. This is the company in the bloodstream of your government. You didn't vote for Peter Thiel, but Peter Thiel is governing you anyway. That's not democracy. That's a purchase. I will be back. Now that's from Harlow Amusings on Instagram. And ⁓ I just find it really interesting in the sense that so many things are tied to human trafficking and just all this money that goes around and... but people just tend to... Like, don't you just not even realize, like, that, ⁓ there's this connection going. I'm sorry that I'm not doing this, but I'm trying to get myself connected to a device here. Okay, so I don't know if you heard that one, but... You know, like all the money that goes in because, you know, someone... Like ⁓ the... the reasoning behind like the international stuff. I don't go into the international stuff. I'm not that type of thinker. But if you look the simple logical things on what trafficking is and how diabolical it is, there's the public self and there's the private self. And I think a lot of people get sold on the public self. Like this lady was talking about the vice president of the United States, who had really was against Trump and now all of a sudden he's his vice president. And all the connections with Epstein. Now, that's the whole thing too in Indian country. When Nathan Chasing Horse was floundering all over the damn place. I mean, the amount of money he took out of Sue Tinnah is diabolical. I mean, our chief and council right now are struggling just to get a grip on boundaries here. But ⁓ the reality of it is that there's big money. ⁓ We have ⁓ an economic development of about $1.5 billion, which is small change compared to the United States and Canada or even Alberta. ⁓ Like I said, I'm dealing with small things, small demographics. all this which sort of has ⁓ the building blocks of something bigger because it's so accepted in the world today. So, and again, want to right now, it's been 20 minutes into this podcast, and I want to sort of caution you about what I'm going to talk about in terms of trafficking. Because a lot of this stuff that's coming out of Epstein and just the... authority or the people who have power that buy into trauma bonding because it's appealing to certain people and we know who those certain people are. So when you look at it as a place of performance art and how ⁓ some people in general just cannot stand it and they don't look at it and they go, that performance art I just don't like, I'm staying away from it. But yet it appeals to certain audience who has money. So what Nathan Tracinghorse was doing in terms of his performance art was appealing to certain people, like in Las Vegas. And two of the victims are suing two of the casinos for trafficking, which apparently they'd been told and warned about prior that Nathan was using their hotels as a place to traffic young girls. I didn't understand this, and it's kind of sickening, so I'm cautioning you. If this is disturbing, don't listen. And if it disturbs you after you've listened, then I advise you to seek out help, 1-800-NUMBERS. Google whatever 800 numbers there are. ⁓ Or even call out to your therapist or talk to somebody. Because ⁓ for me, when I talk about it, people just sort of say, ⁓ trafficking, yes, I know what it is. going no you don't, really don't. Like it's so horrific. Like I can't even look at certain things now after I've gone to the sentencing and after listening to like I knew there was human trafficking happening but I didn't know to the extent that some people, some of the victims use like that they call it Stockholm syndrome you know where the abuse is so rampant that you just fall in love with your abuser. And again, I'm trying to talk about like a false illusion or delusional space where you're thinking this person is the ideal person. If you listen to them, then blessings are going to come to you. And even when the person's not him directly, but persons associated with the diabolical individual gang rapes you and you still go back to their leader because you Like it's diabolical. ⁓ I mean, there's no... ⁓ Like it would take extensive therapy and that's what's so biological and so triggering. So here's the gist of it because for me, like my niece was trafficked and she died from a drug overdose. ⁓ And again, I went down there to release her soul and for good reason because I didn't understand. what a female child goes through when you have perpetrators who are training these young women to have sex all day. So that's why people have got to wake up and realize we have to protect our children. There are people out there who steal children and for the first, say, four days after they've gone missing, these... ⁓ these individuals gang rape the child repeatedly having sex for hours for days. Now the human body heats up and so by the end of say we'll say the fourth or fifth day, I don't know how long but it's more than two, three days of this punishment. they have, they're weak, they can't fight the perpetrator. These are grown men, powerful men who are forcing themselves on these children. And so after so many days of this torture, they sort of leave them alone because their bodies are so hot from all this intense energy. And so what happens with their bodies? Well, naturally, the body will cool down, supposedly. But the reality of it is some of those children cannot, their bodies will not cool down. Or if they cool down, they die. And so the... The children who do survive are able to endure sex for so many times during the day and the week now because their bodies have gotten used to this increased energy. And the ones that didn't survive, well, they're part of the missing and murdered, never to be seen again. And that's the reality. Their souls and spirits are wandering around because their relatives are looking for them. There's no closure, no justice. Like, where are these perpetrators? How come they're not held accountable? And yet there they are, walking amongst us. Some of them leaders who've done this. That's what's so horrific. I didn't the stories of one of the victims of Nathan Chasing Horse. I saw her when she was eight years old. Her mother stayed in my home. And the same with those older men, the followers, they stayed in my home for a while, because I thought they were poor. And I really ⁓ believe Nathan said he was a youth worker, because these men were coming across as being youth workers as well. Now, again, I caution you, if this is triggering, ⁓ go to your therapist or seek help or talk to somebody. ⁓ But just the reality of what that young woman had to go through in that. in that courthouse. ⁓ The bruises, like the judge said, Nathan's lawyer ⁓ said, ⁓ there were no bruises. And the judge says, ⁓ yes, there were. I saw pictures. The arrogance, the stupidity of just the stereotypes of what his lawyer thought of Native Americans, I just, it's vulgar. And yet at the same time, all these children that he did this to, the thousands of video tapes. See, they don't mention that in the court. They don't mention all the steps that had to come forward just to get this man life in prison. And he's going to appeal. He's going to appeal. And even if he does appeal and gets out, he's still going to be registered as a sex offender. And that's again, if he does get out because The penitentiary he's going to is a very wild penitentiary. So the likelihood that he'll be murdered in that penitentiary, again, if it bothers you, know, don't listen to my podcast. This is just hypothetical theory and the reality of how many people are angry at this man who's hurt somebody they know. I tend to think that people think, oh, it's happening in the States, but this is like even in the city here where I live, you know, there's over 14, 12,000 children that are in group homes or foster care. And yet the average age for Indigenous children to be trafficked is 14, because they're not in our communities. We don't have group homes or group shelters within our communities. by our own authority. We have provincial and federal authority, but that's not sovereign. That's run by provincial and federal monies. When I talk about sovereign, mean ⁓ our community ⁓ uses our own money to hire people to actually take care of our youth. ⁓ Because then the premise of it takes a village to raise a child, well, it takes a village to heal a high-risk child. And if we ship them off, then they're not part of that village. There's some off in some other area and it's disturbing. So, know, pardon me if it offends you, but that's the reality. You know, all these people say, ⁓ taxpayers money. No, you created this. My late uncle used to say, ⁓ these white settlers created all this. So let them solve it. Well, the problem about it is like, they're not willing to. They're not willing to ⁓ be allies or cohorts. They're in white privilege. ⁓ What they don't live with or understand, because it doesn't affect them. It doesn't affect them at all. And even for me, like Wachashawashteh, the fellow who came with me to Las Vegas, you know, I know he needed to have closure. ⁓ for his own mental health, and I supported him, knowing that it took a lot for him to champion the story on Nathan Chasinghors with much controversy, to the point where he ⁓ had to move into the United States and then he moved back into Canada. But it's just this juxtaposition of trying to maintain a certain lifestyle and the integrity of your job and your reputation. So ⁓ that whole notion of ⁓ what he did, I had to ⁓ get him to understand from my point of view, not anybody else's because I know how hard it was to write my blog for 20 years. I know the opposition I was up against and I know the women who tried to call me and... tried to get me to explain why I was lying about Nathan chasing a horse and realizing that I wasn't and then them saying, oh, you weren't. I understand it takes time and 20 years. People don't understand the gravity of it. I had one of the ladies from my community just write to me and for me it was like, Why even write to me these things that are so hurtful? ⁓ Why write to me because you don't understand ⁓ what it is that I'm doing in supporting victims? And I didn't want to tell her that Wachash to Wachde was coming with me, because I'm a single female. And again, all this with lateral violence and something about gender. and about, you know, like women, this attitude that we as women have towards men. I don't know. It's some sort of, we call it what the non-Indigenous people call the feminine mystique. Well, we'll call it the Indigenous mystique or the soap as the bannock burns. This is what she wrote to me. Marina, I can't believe you're in Las Vegas. Well, Marina, what's that verdict, that creepy loser you went to go see? See, she's assuming I'm going there just for Nathan Chasinghorse, but I must have some sort of... infatuation or some sort of some sort of obsession like this man must have a holy grail like she says that you wanted to go see there's nothing her her saying that I wanted to help the the survivors or nothing saying of the the like how many decades or like 15 years I've been in contact with one of the survivors or how I supported like one of the young ladies, the 15 year old here 20 years ago. Nothing about that history that I brought, even though I talked to her numerous times about my contribution and how I'm there for the victims. She goes on to say, I wouldn't spend a penny on someone like that creep after what he's done to my relative. Marina, I wouldn't care less if this man died. I don't know him. But Marina, seems you enjoy this thing you're doing. this thing. Lateral violence or what? You know, it's just not me. I know those ladies who got up and did their impact statements. I know afterwards they also suffered from other people from lateral violence, like got messages on their social media similar to what I'm reading here. You think people would just like be happy that they survived and that they put this man away for life, but no. as the bannock burn says and the feminine mystique. She goes on, so I'll leave it there. You know where I stand regarding this person, she says. And I said to her, well, I'm respected by these women. Like I tried to explain to her before. See, I went down in March of 11th and April 27th. And I said to her, I said, people from California, Montana, New Mexico, Arizona came up and shook my hand and thanked me for writing my blog. even what Shastra washdeh said to me that if I hadn't read my blog ⁓ he probably would have been still out there because there were so many so many people who who just say ⁓ well he's an old man now you know what he's done just for you know it's okay just like what the first statement I wrote about forgiveness you know people just think ⁓ he'll forgive him no biggie without even knowing the dynamics of the cruelty he did to these children Like I said, if it's disturbing, you know, you can shut off this. But I do know some of those videotapes, hundreds. One of them was him sexually assaulting a 10-year-old. The only reason they're not pressing it is because they can't identify where, if it was in Canada or the United States, or where. There's just thousands of, like, I don't say thousands, I just know... The authorities have all this information so he can appeal however the way he wants to. He's a registered sex offender. He's dangerous to children. Don't trust nobody with your child. Then she goes on texting me. says, Marina, I worry about you down there alone. What the hell? I lived in the United States for 10 years all alone. Where was she then? Where was this elder then when I was younger and needed? Hello, I've always managed. I try. still, life's not easy. And then she goes on, it's good you meet people down there. Enjoy yourself. Because I said to her, you know, these are friends now. Wouldn't you support me if I needed you? She just said she worries about me. Like I said, we're getting old, she says. Like you said, we're getting old. What the hell does that have to do with it? Am I senile? Is that what she thinks, what I'm doing? ⁓ Have I got dementia or Alzheimer's? And then she goes on to say, so what's the conclusion ⁓ that this person you know moving forward? And she asked about one of the young women who was one of his wives. I refused to answer her. Like I said, it's just not me. ⁓ Like I said, I went down there to support the mother and daughter and ⁓ the repercussions from people. You know, you'd think they'd be there just like, okay, we're there to help you. But life's not easy. know, everyone, including myself, come back to our communities and we have to live our lives. You know, the one lady called me and she told me, know, like just how hard it is that she was getting all this ⁓ lateral violence from people. ⁓ Like she just couldn't comprehend it. And again, too, ⁓ it's important to confront the person who hurt you. Because by putting boundaries down, then you get to differentiate. ⁓ like some things that are lateral violent can be forgiven. But a lot of times the people who are perpetrating this lateral violence have been doing for decades since they were young and there is no way they even know that they're hurting other people because they've done it so natural with nobody confronting them. And so they just think ⁓ I'm forgivable. ⁓ They fawn around and like I'm okay. ⁓ You know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna cause any friction So this lady telling me like, know, like this is this is something Like that's this you must you must How'd she put it Seems like you enjoy this thing this thing you're doing Like that I must enjoy it like that. I'm not fawning that I'm you know causing Conflict or something that I like I'm shit-disturber You know for me, that's just like this one indigenous man said he said that's what you call witchcraft or bad medicine ⁓ Because of the lack of understanding that the gossip it hurts and the accountability for that ⁓ Is is is a reflection back on them? Because I came back and I realized, no, I cannot associate this person. And one of the victims, when she called me, I said, no, it's important not to associate with people who are laterally violent towards you. But again, too, that individual was in another state. So they're not connected like how close I am within my community. But this being said, too, I have to look after my own private life. ⁓ You know, before I went down to, I had the flu. I almost didn't go. ⁓ And my sister's ⁓ granddaughter tried to kill herself. And her dad was in the emergency, came out, went back into the emergency and he's struggling. My sister is also struggling. And when I say struggling, I mean struggling to stay on this earth. Same with my brother-in-law. So yes, I have all this dynamics happening around me and I have to live alone and process all this. I need to keep my boundaries in place so that I can be, look after my own mental health as well as be there for people who need to ⁓ just have someone pull space for them. I'm really grateful that Wachash to Waste came down with me on the 11th. And I'm grateful that he was there. Now, I understand this. I'm going to make this quick. This has to do with the courthouse and lateral violence. One of the mums and daughters, about maybe a month before the sentencing, a group of Sutuna girls went down. And afterwards, this mum and daughter started talking with the Sutuna delegation. One of my nieces was with them. in the support group. And the report came back that this mom and daughter team, they weren't like mentally well. Like, understand this, the violence that this man did to this mom and daughter is horrific. Yes, they're going to suffer mental health issues probably for the rest of their lives. But understand this, the lateral violence that they carry with them, it just percolates. It percolates. How the mum reacted to these 11 people who came from my community was she started drinking, getting out of hand. Why? Because performance, performance art. She was performing because there's publicity and ⁓ these 11 people took all that away from her. Now each time ⁓ there's audiences, was ⁓ one of the former followers was also in the courtroom. And again, some of the dynamics, you've got to understand, some of these survivors knew Nathan for 25, 30, 35, like long time. And actually, you know, like spent so much time with him. See, for me, I didn't spend that time with him. I want people to get the gist of it. I didn't. I had to live with the behavior of the repercussions that my family was living and dealing with. I had to put boundaries down with my family. That's the dynamics of the trauma that came across, which is so horrific. I can't even go into it. It's just violent. But I regress. Again, I want to reflect back on this mother and daughter. So on the 11th, when I went down there with Wachash to Waste, and you've to understand this. This is really crucial and I don't think he understood this totally because he was using his camera. He uses his camera as a screen, like a protector. As long as he has a camera nobody's going to question him. It's his whole coping mechanism. So he's in there in the courthouse and so he's oblivious to what's happening with the women in the background. Okay, so the mom and daughter, one of the... the women who knows, like they all know each other, okay, because they all supported Nathan Chasing Horse at one time. They're all victims of Nathan Chasing Horse. Now, again, some of them have weathered it pretty good because they've gone to therapy and are looking after their mental health and others just haven't gone to therapy and are really dealing with lateral, like their own lateral violent behavior. Without even knowing it, they consciously do it. Like you listen to the impact statement. The one mother says she tried to kill herself three times since he was arrested. So this isn't fun stuff. Like I said, if it's triggering, I need you to go and seek help. But the reality of lateral violence and just how emotionally damaging it is. So on the 11th, when I go in there, I didn't realize ⁓ this mother ⁓ was offended by another woman because she accidentally took picture of her in the courthouse. And she made a big stink about it and didn't and wanted to banish that woman from ever coming to the sentencing. She went through the victim victim ⁓ victim services eight person who looked after the victims of Nathan Chasinghors. ⁓ Okay now what does it have to do with with Wachach to Wachte? Well the reality of it is prior to for my going down to Las Vegas ⁓ I posted a lot of about ⁓ and theories about the reasoning or why did this woman ⁓ who brought her eight-year-old daughter into my community 20 years ago and the reality of like, yes, she didn't grow up. She's got a, she's registered as a Native American, but she never grew up on the reservation. She, it, I don't know the mental health conditions of her. I just would write things on TikTok and her daughter would comment, like, this is my mother, this is my mother. Now she's still doing that, okay? So it's nothing new. Again, lateral violence ⁓ projecting it onto anybody who's around who even looks the wrong way at her mom or her. Again, these are victims that need to... need a lot of mental health work. And I'm saying, yes, the capacity ⁓ to process things was taken away from them by this horrible man who did horrible things, horrible things. But they're coping the best way they can. But each time, say on the 27th again, when he was sentenced and everybody came out of the courtroom, There was the mother and daughter again making issue with the same woman and with one of the other women. And it was just, it percolated and still percolates this lateral violence. So it's not a ⁓ easy thing to process when you are the victim and you're letting the perpetrator know he hurt you. It's just the beginning of healing. And I wanted to ⁓ talk about that because people don't see it. They don't see the dynamics of just how they're struggling in terms of mental health. I wish ⁓ there was a magic wand that somebody could give them so much money to get a qualified therapist. But even when they tried to do that, Nathan Chasing Horse's lawyer was trying to say that it was a miscarriage of justice. The judge says they applied for the money for mental health and they didn't get it yet. Every little nitpicking thing to push against this mum and daughter, it's crazy, it's insane. That's why I'm saying, yes, support the victims because no matter how much you try, there's always lateral violence someplace trying to stop somebody from healing. I don't understand the rhyme or reason behind it, but that's the reality. And I wanted to put this out in the podcast because it's a very serious reality check here that as victims of violence, that you have to understand what it means to have courage. Like the courage to be around that, to be constantly fighting and just trying to get your voice out there, that narrative. And the point is to feel it. You have to feel those emotions. And a lot of times when this mother and daughter did this, they did it in unsafe places. Okay, so it's important to find a safe environment and just help, like the help to process it. That's what's so devastating is that this was never in place for them. And if there's ever some rich person out there who has oodles of money philanthropy, please donate it to them. donated to the victims of Nathan Chasing Horse for therapy or something because ⁓ it's needed. And I think the reason ⁓ for me ⁓ talking about it is because personally too, ⁓ when I decided to go to Las Vegas, ⁓ I made sure I didn't tell anybody. And I said to Wachash to Waste, see Wachash to Waste and Dakota means good man. See, I knew he needed closure. know, whatever ⁓ actions were against him for trying to get this story out, I believe, like, you know, we all have egos, I believe he was devastated. I know he needed the support and some sort of ⁓ clarity that what he was doing had purpose. And for me, introducing him to the survivors and for them to talk to him and thank him for championing their cause to be present and to bear witness to the injustice of Nathan Chasing Horse. That was a profound experience. I'm very grateful that I was there to help him to embrace that and to release it. And, you know, he... ⁓ went through a lot because it's not his culture. And again, ⁓ you have to find cohorts and allies who can feel uncomfortable in those positions. And they have to feel uncomfortable because their way of life and how they see things is totally different than Indigenous people. Even though I speak English and I'm using these psychological terms, does not mean that I'm just like you. No, I have my cultural values and all this, I use words like feminine mystique and all this stuff. But the reality of it is... ⁓ being born in a matriarchal system, being raised as an indigenous girl, teenager, female, and all the systemic racism against even being happy, ⁓ deciding to have children, and the repercussions of even having children when our children are going to be taken away from us. It's amazing that we don't honor our women more. because those support systems that are needed for our children and our women do not exist. They don't. Some sort of fantasy or reality. I mean, sure, you can have a job and struggle to make the bills paid, but the reality of it was within our communities, we have no say. We have people who advocate and work for child and family, but it's not the same. There was our policies ⁓ written by colonial people. Those policies and that education and social worker psychology or psychiatry, those aren't indigenous. Now, like I'm trying to get across here, listen, I'm an elder. I've survived this long. I've educated myself. I've lived in the States and Wachach to Wacaw says, why aren't you living in the States? Like the history of... of violence towards Indigenous women throughout history, not just Indigenous women, but even Black women. Sometimes it just floors me that people don't understand the history or they sort of can equate it to their own communities if they've gone through civil war or civil strife. But the notion of what a relationship is and what partnerships are, are really different. ⁓ Culturally. So like I said, it's not as clear cut as a lot of people look at Indigenous communities and try to understand how we live. So again, ⁓ if anything I've said has triggered you, ⁓ seek help. But the reality of... just what I witnessed. being present was more impactful than just seeing stuff on social media. It was more impactful actually seeing that man after 20 years. See, that's the irony of it, isn't it? I've had to deal with my family and my boundaries for 20 years. what he did to my family lingered. And some of my family are dealing with for the rest of their lives. educating people about their dynamics of intergenerational trauma, trying to understand and relate to people like Wachashta Wakan. Wachashta Waste. I want to say Wachashta Wakan because he's not Wakan. He's Wachashta Waste. Okay, so. I hope it's given you some insight into ⁓ gender issues with Indigenous women from my point of view, because I'm still living within my community. I could have, yes, I could have lived, continued living in the United States. I could have chose not to come back to my community. There's a lot I should have, could have, would have, but I made a choice and... ⁓ I'm grateful to do that. ⁓ Having done that and learned from my mother, learned from ⁓ things that I never ever thought I would ever experience, like going into sweats, attending Sundance, learning how to pray and learning how to communicate with Creator, understanding other Indigenous communities, realizing we're all related. I knew we were all related. because we're just raised that way in Sioux culture. I don't know how to explain it. It's almost like ⁓ psychic, some sort of psychic bond we have. And I believe every community has that. That's why I'm saying only our communities can heal our own community because we have that. We have that built in us. I think it's with every human being, but in society, like colonial society, they've deconstructed all that and ⁓ have taken away that. ⁓ collective and holistic approach to the gifts creator has given all humanity. That being said, I truly believe that Indigenous people can teach a lot about compassion and what it means. For Wachashta Waste, the reality of just him being present without me ever acknowledging, like the two ladies. who I'm no longer friends with don't even know who he is. ⁓ They don't even know that he traveled with me to Las Vegas. And yet they still treated me with disdain. The one knew, because she heard from somebody that I traveled to the States with this Wachoshtowashteh, but never questioned. In some ways, I think she... ⁓ would sooner see me neutered or de-flowered, not de-flowered, neutered or what do they call it? In China they had those monks where they were castrated, like the eunuchs, eunuchs. I really think some people in my community would rather see me as a eunuch or asexual because in any they don't want me to they don't want to see me as being ⁓ sexual because that would mean ⁓ my goodness she's sexual and she's living alone and is not lonely i mean she's low there's loneliness yes but but i'm not this angry ⁓ individual and ⁓ i'm just grateful and i i know i know the experience ⁓ with what chashtra washtey will will like it's it's memorable the only time i've ever traveled with a ⁓ Washiichu was so many decades ago coming from Utah and the guy hated to be with me. He was driving, I had to catch a ride back up to Canada and he drove. He wouldn't stop for nothing except gas and we hit a deer in Idaho and he didn't even stop to see the damage on the car. He just kept on going. He was so enraged that I was in the, he was in the company of an Indian woman, a Lamanite. This is a Mormon man. So when Wachashda Wachite said he was going to accompany me, I just thought I've never traveled with... The only time I've traveled with a man was with this other Wachichu was so many decades ago that it was really like memorable, really horrific, really systemic racist. I mean, I can even when I get on the airplane and Wachichu... ⁓ Don't like it that I'm next to them. I can like it's I can taste it in the sense or I mean it's there's no apology I'm not gonna apologize. I like I try to accommodate but I'm not gonna fawn over white people and What Joshua stay I know is this I'm not I didn't fawn around him ⁓ I I did what I could to validate and let him know that his duty now is to is to be a witness to to what truth and reconciliation is all about. And that it takes a lot. It takes a lot for someone just to hold space. So I don't know if I repeated this earlier, but I'm going to let you know what I sent to Wachash to Wastea. I want to take this moment to share some thoughts about what it truly means to be a witness to truth and reconciliation in Canada. Now he works in Canada, but he lives in the United States. Embracing the role is an active ongoing commitment, one rooted in acknowledging the deep harms caused by Indian residential school system. It requires us to move beyond simply observing and instead to engage wholeheartedly with the stories and experiences shared by the survivors. I've done that my whole life. my whole life, my family's, my mom and dad, my grandmother, my aunts and uncle, my aunts, even myself. Intergenerational survivors and Indigenous communities, as witnessing you listened with intention and empathy. See, I had to call, I had to label it, I had to say this is what you, this is who you are with Chashu Wa'Shteya. Honouring their truths, without minimizing or deflecting them. Okay, that was on the 11th. On the 27th, he appeared, he was there in the courthouse. ⁓ But again, too, you I didn't expect him to show up the second time. But listening, and I go on, but listening is only one, is only the beginning. Our responsibilities extend beyond hearing to acting. This means educating those around us, challenging colonial narratives whenever they persist. That's why I read that article of the lady about what she said to me. Because the colonial narrative persists in our own people, Indigenous people too. And supporting Indigenous-led efforts that advance to the cause of action laid out in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the TRC. The commitment reaches into our daily lives shaping how we build relationships, influence policies and foster meaningful reconciliation. So that's why I talk about you know, the need to have emergency shelters and emergency homes, group homes for high-risk children in our communities, or even children whose parents, both parents have died. They still need to stay in our communities. And also, like, those are policies that need to be made for communities ⁓ in order to foster true reconciliation because non-colonial concept... you know, think that everything's okay because it's under their narrative. Being a witness, and I said, okay, being a witness means accepting the responsibility to ensure that the truths you hear are not forgotten or overlooked. So, you know, even though he said he's attended other court cases where ⁓ the victims never, it never went to court and they never saw justice. The fact that I introduced him and even then he said too that ⁓ if it weren't for me he wouldn't be there, like he wouldn't have been introduced to the survivors who I had indirectly like a conversation with him through my blog. By doing so you helped, and I said to him by doing so like for him being present, you helped contribute to healing, support transformative change. So even the fact, like I said, Wachash to Ashteya was in the courtroom and the fact that the survivors saw him with me was dynamic in the sense that if there was any lateral violence that was going to be triggered towards me, it didn't happen because he was holding space for me. I don't think he understood, understands it. And that's why I wanted to bring this to light because it's not a... It's not ⁓ something that you just think, ⁓ no, you fabricated it. And I'm going, Each time, three times, this mom and daughter made trouble for this one lady because of either taking a picture or the other one owing her money or something. Just the fact that I had said to Wachasta Waste, I'm not too sure about this mother and daughter, because the daughter would make comments on TikTok towards me, like constant. So I was relieved that she didn't confront me or defame me or. But I really believe it's because Rishashtra Vashti was there. And that's why I say by doing so, you help contribute to healing, support in transformative change, and advance the ongoing journey towards reconciliation. See, not just for the lawyers and the judges and all that, and even the witnesses. It's more than that. It's just the energy. Thank you for considering what this important role embodies and for your dedication to shaping a better future. Because just being cohort and a witness has shaped the outcome. Knowing that, like the survivors that I have a relationship with now, knowing that I had someone like Wachash to Wasteya supporting me. was very profound. don't think he really grasped it, but I did give him a gift as a symbol because I didn't understand, like I couldn't see the total impact, but I knew I had to gift him something, just like I had to gift this other mother and daughter a star blanket because I knew they needed my support. But I also knew that ⁓ even though Wachash to Wachate was there supporting me, I want him to know Yes, I understand all this that I did. All this that I did is because of my efforts. But that's even including making sure you had closure, which ashto ashteya. That you had closure and that what you fought for in terms of truth and reconciliation is part of the agenda of the TRC. It's part of a historical event. Thousands of Indigenous people have had friends and cohorts that we've been gifting for generations. It's what we call our giveaway and ceremony. And I go on to say, this is the spirit behind the gesture of the gift giving to you. While the gift may be a lighter in your hand. So a lighter is, you know, what you use to light up a cigarette. They call them Zippo cigarettes. Zippo lighters. It's totally American. I'm beyond that. I didn't even know it was an American product. Bless my heart. While the gift may be a lighter in your hands, for me it symbolizes your efforts and truly, and your duty to carry forward and acknowledge what you have witnessed. So I wanted, like it's a symbol of his efforts and duty to carry forward the acknowledgement. of what he witnessed. Not just on March 11th or April 27th, but even after Nathan Chasing Horse, before Nathan Chasing Horse was arrested and when I appeared on a podcast with Michelle Robinson and it went out public and somehow he heard it and he saw it and he suggested that they do a story on it. See, it's that acknowledgement. And for whatever thing that either he suffered for it, or controversy or criticism, or whatever he needed to have some restitution or just, like, I don't know, maybe it's some clarity in that all the efforts that he did had some meaning that he could relate to as a non-Indigenous person, as a Wasichu. So I gave him this gift and I just I don't say his real name but for me, Wachashta Waste is good and he you know he says he likes the name but I know and I hope because it was such a huge impactful thing of getting this man 37 years to life. witnessing that in itself, the impact in all the communities, because we were denied our spirituality. See, it wasn't because he was somebody who played a childhood role on Dances with Wolves. It was the very fact, reconnecting with our spirituality, just like why I chose to come home. instead of living in the States. that he used that against the most vulnerable. And as long as we create more vulnerable people, there will be other people like Nathan Chasing Horse taking advantage of our children. For every one Nathan Chasing Horse, there are 10 more out there. So it's not just the ideology, or it is the ideology, but you've got to take it to heart. You've got understand it. And the only people who understand it is ourselves, the communities we live in, because we live in those communities and we know the people and how we heal and how we live and celebrate our lives. So, yes, it's a hard thing to have closure. After so many years, a friend of mine, Pauline, I knew her since high school. says, Marina, I knew you before Nathan Chasing Horse. And I said, yes. I said, most of my friends that know me now knew me after Nathan Chasing Horse. So well, Marina, I knew the struggles you've had with your family before. You've always been alone and always struggled. And it's still the same. It's still the same. She says, nothing has changed, Marina. And rightfully so. that feminine mystique, ability to... One art instructor said, Marina, ⁓ it's like ⁓ anything I do is like a dog that takes a bite and won't let go. Well, 20 years ago, I took that bite out of Nathan Chasing Horse and I wouldn't let it go. As much as he shook to try and get me free, I would not let go. It breaks my heart, it breaks my heart that what he symbolizes is all those people who hurt my mother and my grandmother in those Indian residential schools using spirituality to make them complacent, to make them fawn, to develop personality disorders, to have all this intergenerational trauma that people are ashamed to even stand in space to challenge what I talk about. to even hold space for what I talk about, and to even bear witness to what I talk about. Yes, that's part of healing, and that's part of dismantling systemic racism. It all works hand in hand, and unless we understand it, unless we call it what it is, we're not building a better future for our young people. We have to. They're depending on us.