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Executive Assistant & Office Manager: Two Jobs in a Trench Coat · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:01
  Hi everyone,
• 0:02
  and welcome to Roast the Post,
• 0:04
  the story behind the bullet points.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jennifer Houle,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: and after years in the HR and people and culture trenches,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen more job postings than any reasonable human should.
• 0:14
  And let me tell you,
• 0:16
  those things always tell a bigger story than the words on the
• 0:18
  page.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Each week,
• 0:20
  Paul and I take a real job posting and pull it apart to figure
• 0:24
  out what it reveals
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: about the organization behind it.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: The assumptions,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: the power dynamics,
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: the unrealistic expectations,
• 0:31
  and occasionally the rare gem that shows off an org that
• 0:35
  actually knows what it
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: wants.
• 0:37
  If you're a job seeker,
• 0:38
  we'll help you decode what the role actually demands
• 0:41
  and how to read between the lines before you waste your time
• 0:44
  and invest too many fields.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're one of the job seeker seekers,
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: the folks writing these postings,
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: this is your chance to understand how they land,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: why candidates roll their eyes,
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: and how to stop setting your own recruitment efforts on fire.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: One of us brings a job post the other hasn't seen yet.
• 1:01
  We break it down section by section,
• 1:03
  and then we each score it from our own unique perspectives.
• 1:06
  No consensus,
• 1:07
  no choreography,
• 1:09
  just two different professional lenses on the same issue.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: so this week,
• 1:19
  it was my turn to find a job posting to share with you so we
• 1:23
  could roast it.
• 1:25
  And my I want to share a little bit my thought process what I
• 1:27
  was looking for,
• 1:29
  I was specifically looking for a job posting for an office
• 1:33
  manager or an executive
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: assistant type role.
• 1:38
  the reason why I was doing this was because I feel like these
• 1:41
  are the most
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: underappreciated roles out there,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are going to do all of the work.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be thankless.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's exhausting.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to see what job postings
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: were out there for those types of roles.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's tons there.
• 1:58
  You're always going to find lots of administrative type,
• 2:01
  lower barrier to entry roles out there.
• 2:04
  What caught my eye about the one that we're going to be talking
• 2:06
  about is what the
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: company itself does.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always drawn to,
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: especially like now that it's later in life,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: later in my career,
• 2:18
  it's important to me to work for organizations that are maybe
• 2:23
  mission driven,
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: social impact.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're working on doing good in the world.
• 2:29
  And or maybe just doing something super cool,
• 2:33
  interesting,
• 2:34
  something different.
• 2:35
  And so that's what stood out for me when I was researching
• 2:39
  which post to roast this week.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I always find administrative roles.
• 2:47
  particularly interesting when you look at the function of an
• 2:51
  organization and like
• 2:52
  the different people in it and how they're kind of operating
• 2:56
  inside like the total
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: system,
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: like the system theory part of it.
• 2:59
  Admin roles are really fascinating to look at because a good
• 3:03
  administrative
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: resource,
• 3:06
  whether it's kind of an office level manager type person or an
• 3:10
  administrative
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: resource in a business unit,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: they are a lot of the time when they're good,
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: the unsung hero.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: they kind of make things just work and work really well.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And nobody sees it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody knows why, like they're, they're a little invisible.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm, I'm excited about this.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Let's, let's roast this post.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's do it.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: The company has an employee count of about 258 employees.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: The industry is travel arrangements.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're HQ'd in two locations, Seattle and Toronto.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And this specific posting is for Toronto.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: This company was established in 1991
• 3:55
  And what I've noticed about the job posting is that it has
• 3:58
  already been reposted.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time of this conversation,
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: it's been reposted with over a hundred applicants,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: on LinkedIn,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: it shows you how many people have applied.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think once it gets to a hundred,
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: it kind of stops giving you that number,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: which is AKA for you have no shot in hell for this job.
• 4:21
  Okay,
• 4:22
  so the title of this role is executive assistant and office
• 4:29
  manager.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you a little bit about the job.
• 4:34
  This company is the leading polar expedition travel company
• 4:38
  headquartered in Toronto,
• 4:39
  Canada.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: We operate cruises to Antarctica and Arctic region,
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: so Greenland,
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: North Canada,
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: a place I can't pronounce,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: on board of three modern polar expedition ships.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to name the ships.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Since 1991,
• 4:54
  this company has been establishing a tradition of first and
• 4:57
  polar travel as the
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: first to transit the Northeast passage with adventure travelers,
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: the first to take travelers to the far side of Antarctica,
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: and the first to circumnavigate the Antarctic continent with guests.
• 5:09
  This company is part of another company,
• 5:11
  the world's leading experiential travel business.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 5:16
  We are looking to hire an executive assistant and office
• 5:19
  manager to join our team!
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Reporting to the president of this company,
• 5:24
  you'll provide executive level support to senior leaders while
• 5:28
  leading all aspects
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: of day-to-day office operations,
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: facilities,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: vendors,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: and health and safety protocols.
• 5:36
  This dynamic role is ideal for someone who thrives in a fast
• 5:40
  paced environment,
• 5:42
  takes initiative and enjoys leading a wide variety of
• 5:45
  responsibilities with strong
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: attention to detail.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And pause.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me what you think about the about the job section, please.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's kind of neat.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is not an industry that I know a ton about,
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: but it strikes me that it kind of fits that mold of kind of small office,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of people wearing a lot of different hats.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: You said that it's a part of the world's leading industry
• 6:25
  travel experience company so to me that kind of smells like oh
• 6:28
  this company has
• 6:29
  been acquired at some point like they used to be a travel
• 6:32
  agency of some kind in
• 6:33
  some bespoke space they've been acquired by I don't know
• 6:37
  Expedia or something like
• 6:40
  that and that's just how they are doing it I think that it
• 6:48
  sounds okay I mean to me
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: what we've talked about so far is
• 6:54
  It's kind of interesting that the job is branded executive
• 6:58
  assistant and office manager.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that also suggests that it's a small organization.
• 7:03
  Like you're taking two standalone roles in a larger company and
• 7:08
  kind of like
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: merging them together.
• 7:10
  That's not necessarily the worst thing in the world,
• 7:12
  but the thing to watch out would be for.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Or the thing to watch out for would be,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: is this actually too much for one person to handle?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And are they going to get a little bit worn down and burned out?
• 7:25
  So if I were interviewing for this job,
• 7:28
  I think I'd be asking questions about daily activities.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's it like in the office?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: How many people are there?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: What supports are available?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: That type of stuff.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: So far, it sounds reasonable.
• 7:40
  Doesn't sound like they've had a whole lot of success,
• 7:41
  though,
• 7:41
  if it's been reposted already.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 7:45
  so I agree with you and I think that roles like this when it's
• 7:49
  an executive
• 7:49
  assistant office manager type role that's when you do see a lot
• 7:53
  of applicants
• 7:54
  because it's one of those roles where there's a lower barrier
• 7:57
  to entry right
• 7:58
  they're not asking for someone to have like a PhD in office
• 8:01
  management or anything
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: like that and so.
• 8:03
  you're going to get a lot of applicants and then it becomes
• 8:06
  overwhelming.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know,
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming they have a people department,
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure,
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: but it could be just that,
• 8:12
  that they kind of had so many applicants the first time they
• 8:16
  posted that they got
• 8:17
  buried a little bit and then they're reposting it to see like
• 8:20
  maybe the people who
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: are really interested will apply again,
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: things like that.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: That seems to happen.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: For me, what I noticed is that it sounds really exciting, right?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: The concept of this exciting travel is really cool.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe interesting work.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: It names the reporting structure right off the bat.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So reporting to the company.
• 8:43
  We're seeing the language again,
• 8:46
  dynamic role,
• 8:47
  fast paced environment takes initiative.
• 8:50
  We've talked about this before,
• 8:51
  but those are things that tell you a lot about what
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: working there is going to be like,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: meaning,
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: you have to be ready to pivot,
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: you have to be ready for frequent changes.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: My concern and you voiced it is,
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: is this two roles in one,
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: executive assistant and office manager?
• 9:12
  That's a lot of work and we're going to go into a little bit
• 9:15
  more of what that
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: could look like within the job descriptions,
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: plural,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: because there's two.
• 9:24
  But first,
• 9:25
  let's go into the next part,
• 9:28
  which they go right into what we'll offer.
• 9:30
  So what we'll offer is competitive base salary plus bonus,
• 9:34
  health benefits,
• 9:36
  10 days of vacation,
• 9:38
  plus you get your birthday off flexible hybrid working travel
• 9:45
  discounts.
• 9:46
  I'm going to stop there because the next section goes into the
• 9:49
  responsibilities.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the initial thoughts on what it is that this company is offering.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 9:56
  I think that this reinforces that it's a relatively small
• 10:00
  company and they're
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: probably not turning over a crazy amount of revenue every year.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Two weeks vacation,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, that's not crazy.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty standard,
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: especially for entry-level jobs,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: like two weeks off with pay,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: whatever,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: it's fine.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, more is nice.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like two weeks is kind of just the baseline.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so to say that that's kind of a benefit, like...
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it's not really a benefit to write home about, right?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not a lot of time off.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: The taking your birthday off, that is nice.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that is kind of an easy way for smaller businesses,
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: to recognize folks,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: giving their birthday off.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Me personally,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: especially when I was younger,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I would kind of rather have the day after my birthday off.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, to each their own.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I like to celebrate things.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love those people.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Travel discounts.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: That could potentially be a big one.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on what type of discount we're talking about.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Are we talking about a discount on packages that they sell?
• 11:16
  I would assume yes,
• 11:17
  because they can fund that out of their margin a little bit
• 11:19
  better.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: But is it also discounts on flights?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is it discounts on like hotel through a partner company or something?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: If it's discounts on flights, that'd be dope.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be a really sweet benefit.
• 11:33
  If it's discounts on a three week package that you can't take
• 11:37
  because you only have
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: two weeks vacation,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: maybe not so great.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Travel discounts is exciting.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like to me,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to work for this company,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: if you're into this kind of thing,
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: but like you said,
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: if it's a discount on a polar expedition trip,
• 11:54
  uh you know how many people are going to take advantage of that
• 11:58
  um 10 days i like
• 12:00
  just detest like 10 days is like you said standard um i feel
• 12:07
  like we need to do
• 12:07
  better it's not a lot of time off this to me reads very much
• 12:12
  and we'll get into it
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: later as a dual role um you're taking on two fully fleshed out roles
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to need more than 10 days of vacation.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it is,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: standard,
• 12:25
  what I would like to see in job posting is something that kind
• 12:28
  of explains a little
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: bit more like 10 days vacation to start.
• 12:32
  Right,
• 12:32
  because then that tells me there's an opportunity to get more
• 12:35
  down the road.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know that there are legal requirements for that, like based on tenure.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to know that there's more to it,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: that there's an opportunity,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: a potential to have more vacation days.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Birthday off, I'm like, I'm not eight.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't excite me.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 12:52
  care if I want my birthday off I'll take my birthday off right
• 12:56
  but I get it I get
• 12:57
  it lots of companies like now now that I've been researching
• 13:00
  job postings this is
• 13:02
  kind of a thing for companies saying that you get your birthday
• 13:05
  off and I do like
• 13:08
  that it it says that there's a bonus so to me that's cool any
• 13:13
  job that offers a
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: bonus I really like that I like that they're upfront about it
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: One flag for me was flexible hybrid working.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I would just need more details.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: If this is an executive assistant office manager role,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that it can possibly be a flexible hybrid working role.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know what they mean by that.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely need more information there.
• 13:38
  Another thing that comes to mind with me right now is they
• 13:41
  didn't mention anything,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: maybe they mentioned it later,
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: but in that section,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: they didn't mention anything about sick days.
• 13:47
  So if you are taking your sick days out of your two weeks
• 13:51
  vacation,
• 13:52
  that's not great.
• 13:54
  You're probably,
• 13:55
  even if you're in good health,
• 13:56
  you're probably going to burn through
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: one week over the course of a year, just through sick days.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: if you're prone to kind of getting sick during this time of year,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: then maybe you're going to burn through both.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So like what vacation that might really suck.
• 14:14
  yeah you're right i mean if you have kids if you have kids
• 14:16
  alone um that you're
• 14:18
  gonna be sick throughout the year there are some like legal
• 14:22
  requirements um for
• 14:24
  sick days i can't remember off the top of my head for toronto
• 14:26
  because i'm a
• 14:27
  terrible hr person but um there would be a legal requirement
• 14:32
  it's just not listed
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: what it is so either they just left it off or it's nothing
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: it's nothing wild or over the top, right?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're like, whatever, we just give the basic amount.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to say that.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 14:46
  And that's interesting too,
• 14:48
  because you think about,
• 14:49
  I mean,
• 14:50
  you mentioned the kids,
• 14:51
  right?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like being a caregiver for young children.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: This type of role,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: not to be a sexist pig or anything,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: but this type of role is typically more taken up by women.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are,
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: if you're a woman,
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: you're in this role,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: you have small children,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: the role is kind of structured in such a way that it's meant for women,
• 15:17
  but without the support of like a sick day policy that's a
• 15:22
  little bit more
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: generous,
• 15:23
  you're going to reduce the amount of people who can actually
• 15:25
  take that role.
• 15:26
  right like i can imagine a mom especially a new mom being like
• 15:31
  oh geez yeah i've
• 15:32
  got uh this 18 month old and this doesn't say anything about
• 15:36
  sick days and two
• 15:37
  weeks of vacation like yeah it's gonna get weird with my kid
• 15:40
  you're you're so right
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: and like i i hate the fact that these roles are more designed
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: to be for women will receive more female applicants.
• 15:52
  I've done this,
• 15:53
  I've been in the biz for a really long time,
• 15:55
  and I can attest to that.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, rarely, if ever, will you see men applying for a role like this.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, such a good point.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: You need to take into consideration,
• 16:08
  not that I think that women should be the primary caregivers or
• 16:12
  the default parents
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: at home,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: but let's be realistic about what real life is like.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: They should, they should be designing it to support that.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 16:24
  And I also think that like if you have other like we just
• 16:26
  talked about sick days aren't listed.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: If they do offer sick days,
• 16:31
  it should be listed any kind of perk or benefit that you offer
• 16:36
  anything in your job
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: posting should be listed.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's such a missed opportunity to not mention it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, the what will offer just a few bullet points.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: it's not as alluring as it could be, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So missed chance there.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe this job posting was written by an outgoing office manager?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You make such a good point right there,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: because what I would love to see in job postings is right off the bat,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: is this a replacement role?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is this an additional role?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've talked about this before,
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit more details about what you're walking into.
• 17:19
  And sure,
• 17:21
  you can talk about that in the interview,
• 17:23
  in the screening interview.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: as a candidate, you should be asking those types of questions.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the more information you can give, the better for people.
• 17:32
  I think anything to help people inform what it is that they're
• 17:35
  walking into and
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: also help them like
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: in their application process,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: say they are requesting a cover letter,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: then you can say like,
• 17:43
  I see that this is a replacement role and here's how I would
• 17:46
  approach that without
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: overriding existing processes that someone created,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 17:51
  Like just kind of put your twist on that and explain how you
• 17:54
  would approach things
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: if it's a net new role or if it's a replacement role or things like that.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a good way to stand out as a candidate.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good point because you think about this role too.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's executive assistant plus office manager.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: We can tell that that's one role,
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: one person,
• 18:12
  just from the way that it's kind of smooshed together in the
• 18:14
  other assumptions,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: but educated ones that we're making about this so far.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: But you could see an EA
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: being, you know, not the only EA in an org.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So what if this particular one is an EA plus office manager,
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: but there are a couple of other EAs for senior leadership,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: like maybe the president and CEO has their own EA,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 18:39
  So this person is going to be the EA for maybe a couple of
• 18:42
  senior leaders,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: but not dedicated to just like the big honcho.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk about that now that you mentioned it.
• 18:50
  Okay.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: I smell a segue.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: A great segue.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go into what you'll do.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to start because they break it down by the two roles.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: The first is executive assistant and then all of the bullet points.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the heading.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So what you'll do executive assistant.
• 19:08
  And I'm going to stop halfway through,
• 19:10
  I think,
• 19:10
  because it's quite lengthy.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Provide comprehensive calendar management and administrative support,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: primarily to the president of this company and to five other executives.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Five.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: We need to screenshot your face right now.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Next bullet point,
• 19:31
  coordinate the general business calendar for the president
• 19:34
  using a proactive
• 19:34
  planning approach to recurring meetings and meetings that
• 19:37
  support business
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: activities throughout the year.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Coordinate schedules,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: travel plans and meeting logistics,
• 19:43
  including pre and post meeting follow ups and material
• 19:47
  preparation for the
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: executive.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maintain the executive planner tool and travel worksheets.
• 19:53
  Liaise with executives to gather travel information and adjust
• 19:58
  plans as needed.
• 20:00
  Handle executive expenses and credit card reconciliations
• 20:03
  through whatever software
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: they're using.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Assist in preparing PowerPoint.
• 20:09
  We know you love PowerPoint presentations and agendas for
• 20:12
  leadership meetings.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Example, senior leadership team, business review meeting, town hall.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually just going to go through it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Just a couple more.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Act as a liaison with other executive assistants.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: staff and external contacts for document sharing,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: inquiries and scheduling,
• 20:29
  handle DocuSign administration and assist with internal
• 20:32
  application forms and
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: purchase approvals,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: provide logistical and communication support for internal initiatives,
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: including engagement awards,
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: annual events and social outings,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: other ad hoc duties as required by the business.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it for just the executive assistant responsibilities.
• 20:54
  Let's pause there before we get into the office management
• 20:57
  responsibilities.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thoughts?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So this poor person is going to be a fucking cat herder.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Bless the person taking this role.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: in my brain right now,
• 21:17
  I can't help but conjure up a stereotypical leadership team of
• 21:25
  a bunch of old white
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: dudes who don't know how to use technology.
• 21:28
  It drives me bananas when even senior leaders want someone to
• 21:39
  manage their calendar for them.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: That drives me nuts.
• 21:43
  And I get that there are some leaders in some organizations
• 21:46
  that it's a terrible
• 21:47
  use of your time because you're at such a large organization
• 21:50
  and your time
• 21:51
  generates so much value that it makes absolutely no sense for
• 21:55
  you to manage your
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: own calendar,
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: the half hour a day or whatever it would take you.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I get that.
• 22:01
  But for medium-sized enterprises,
• 22:05
  if you've got somebody who's not managing their own calendar,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: oh, that drives me bananas.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: It basically says you're not capable of managing your own time yourself.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen it.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just so hard to just be like, what is wrong with you?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Put your grown-up pants on and do it yourself.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm at an org currently where we don't have EAs.
• 22:30
  The senior leadership team does all of their own calendar
• 22:33
  management and they are busy people.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: But like,
• 22:37
  It's not,
• 22:39
  it's,
• 22:39
  it shouldn't be as difficult as some people make it out to be.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's, that's another thing that's agreed, agreed.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of those things where I'm like, who, who do you think you are?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what kind of company do you actually think you're working in?
• 22:54
  You know,
• 22:54
  I know,
• 22:55
  I know someone who's in a company of 12 and the leadership team
• 23:01
  has an EA and
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Frankly, I don't even think they're that busy.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's definitely a case for,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: even in smaller companies,
• 23:12
  there's a case for having an executive chief of staff or an
• 23:19
  operational support
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: person who's kind of like an EA,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: but the calendar managing thing is particularly stupid.
• 23:26
  I think that we've unlocked a pet peeve that I didn't really
• 23:30
  know that I had strong
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: feelings about,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: and here we are.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing that stood out for me with this was expense management.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that also says that,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: the,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: the ELT that you're managing calendars for,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: they're going to walk by your desk.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: like once a day,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: once a week,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: once a month and drop paper receipts on you and be like,
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: thanks.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can you deal with this deer?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be wonderful.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 23:53
  And just for a clarification for any listeners,
• 23:56
  ELT,
• 23:57
  you mean executive leadership?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, executive leadership team.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the C-suite people, effectively, like company leadership.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: That I also am not a huge fan of,
• 24:09
  but I have a little bit more patience for that than managing
• 24:13
  the calendar.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because managing your own calendar,
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: it has a lot of kind of direct correlation to your daily activities,
• 24:19
  and it forces you to prepare for the things that are in your
• 24:22
  calendar when you
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: manage it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I like that.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I don't outsource my own calendar or have a VA.
• 24:29
  I do all of that stuff myself because it forces me to have my
• 24:32
  shit together.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 24:34
  I have a friend who is essentially an EA to a CEO and she does
• 24:39
  say that like his
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: calendar management,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: because the people he's meeting with also have really
• 24:44
  busy schedules um that it is like EA on EA trying to schedule
• 24:49
  these things and she
• 24:50
  said it is a beast like in and of itself and so for her she
• 24:53
  doesn't mind because um
• 24:56
  she can do it more efficiently than he can so again like yes
• 24:59
  we're saying this it's
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: one of those things that
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: for other people maybe doing the work or like,
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want that leader person doing their own calendar.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's just a nightmare.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just do it myself.
• 25:11
  But that's how we get ourselves into these messes with
• 25:13
  incompetent leadership.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day,
• 25:19
  if the relationship between those two people is respectful and
• 25:23
  there's a really
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: good reason for the work being done,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: whatever.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's a part of being in a business, right?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Building a business like you,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: you build it the way that makes sense for you and you maximize your time,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: your efficiency and your profit margins.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's the whole point.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, don't don't take people at home.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Don't take my aversion to calendar management.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not a hill either of us.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: But we clearly don't care for it.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let's carry on.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: The rest of that stuff sounded pretty standard.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Personal assistants,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: whether they're for business leaders or celebrities or whatever,
• 26:04
  they tend to be busy all the time and kind of available at the
• 26:07
  drop of a hat that's
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: just...
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: the nature of the gig.
• 26:10
  You can only hope that you're paid accordingly,
• 26:12
  but I'm sure we'll get to that part too.
• 26:14
  This is an interesting part too,
• 26:16
  and this goes back to the vacation time,
• 26:18
  right?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: 10 days of vacation.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Again,
• 26:20
  I know people who are EAs and they are taking calls and
• 26:24
  rescheduling things,
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: taking care of business evenings,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: weekends,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: while they're on vacation too.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: So even
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: With vacation,
• 26:31
  you're not really getting a vacation if you're an EA to the
• 26:34
  president of a company,
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: let alone five other executives.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the part that stood out to me, like six, six executives.
• 26:44
  And then it says you're going to be liaison with other
• 26:46
  executive assistants.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does everyone at this company just have a fucking, can I say that?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 26:51
  executive assistant like like everyone just gets huge is that
• 26:57
  just the swag you get
• 26:58
  when you join the team you get an EA that seems like a lot we
• 27:01
  said this is a
• 27:01
  company of like 258 people like that's and and how many of
• 27:07
  execs are those EA's
• 27:10
  you know supporting too it's it's wild to me so already to me
• 27:14
  that like we could
• 27:15
  have just ended it there and say this is the ea job you've got
• 27:19
  a lot on your hands
• 27:20
  um good luck out there but that's not it there's more so should
• 27:26
  we get into that
• 27:28
  yeah let's roast this post do it office management so now we're
• 27:33
  on what what you'll
• 27:34
  be doing part two office managing management so there's health
• 27:37
  and safety uh joint
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: health and safety committee ownership manage arrange inspections maintain
• 27:44
  documentation update sharepoint pages and chair quarterly joint
• 27:48
  health uh and
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: safety committee meetings
• 27:52
  Respond to office related inquiries like parking access cards
• 27:57
  general questions and
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: maintain up to date records.
• 28:00
  Provide administrative support for lunch orders meeting setup
• 28:03
  and special events
• 28:04
  example holiday party visitors be present for visitor meetings
• 28:08
  and larger events.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Be responsible for the daily operations of the Toronto office,
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: ensuring a clean,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: stocked,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: and well-functioning workspace.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Handle office supplies,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: grocery,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: and coffee orders,
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: restock items,
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: clean out fridge,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: and coordinate general kitchen and office tidiness.
• 28:27
  Coordinate with vendors for ad hoc purchases like equipment,
• 28:31
  furniture,
• 28:31
  or gifts.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Liaise with cleaners,
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: repair vendors,
• 28:34
  and building contacts to arrange services and ensure
• 28:37
  maintenance is completed.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: coordinate parking garage access and roster updates,
• 28:43
  liaise with building management and payroll for related
• 28:46
  deductions and updates,
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: handle office access and intercom system,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: activate,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: deactivate building security cards and track usage,
• 28:54
  support onboarding by ensuring new hires are added to relevant
• 28:57
  systems and receive
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: accurate welcome information.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't six more pages?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: There is an act as surrogate mother for all of our executives,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: carry their children,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: hurt their children.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, it's an office management role, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: There are things, but I'd love to hear your thoughts first.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all of that stuff is pretty standard stuff for an office manager.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing in there that's absolutely crazy.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: The one kind of question I do have,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: though,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: is like,
• 29:35
  are they required to bring their own mop or is that provided by
• 29:37
  the company?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: That is a roast.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're roasting the post.
• 29:46
  I feel like this one is like bringing up some latent feelings
• 29:50
  that I need to like
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: process and deal with or something.
• 29:54
  But it really,
• 29:55
  there's nothing that's unusual for an office manager kind of
• 29:59
  job in there.
• 30:00
  It's maybe I just don't like traditional office manager,
• 30:03
  like role structures and whatnot.
• 30:06
  Yeah,
• 30:06
  the cleaning of the fridge,
• 30:07
  that just seems kind of,
• 30:09
  I don't know,
• 30:10
  like,
• 30:12
  clean out the fridge sure somebody's got to do it but uh to
• 30:15
  make it a part of
• 30:16
  somebody's like formal office like role description or whatever
• 30:20
  like most most
• 30:21
  organizations that i've worked in um it's kind of been a like a
• 30:24
  rotating unofficial
• 30:26
  chore like you know you've got 30 people in the office small
• 30:30
  office or whatever
• 30:31
  like each week one person is responsible for restocking the
• 30:34
  stuff cleaning out the
• 30:35
  fridge at the end of the week like blah blah blah blah blah um
• 30:39
  making it the
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: responsibility of one person
• 30:42
  who is already like an office manager feels maybe this is
• 30:50
  unfair but it feels a
• 30:52
  little bit icky because it's reinforcing gender stereotypes
• 30:55
  unnecessarily assuming
• 30:56
  that it's a woman who they want and a woman who's going to get
• 30:59
  the role um it feels
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: a little ick i don't uh i don't dig that so much um
• 31:08
  be present and basically like be a chaperone and a host during
• 31:12
  events and whatnot
• 31:13
  that also feels a little bit icky it i i really hesitate to say
• 31:23
  this but it just
• 31:25
  the way that this thing is written and structured and feels is
• 31:29
  it's likely they
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: want a housewife secretary from the 1970s yeah to join their team and
• 31:37
  wife madman type yeah that's that's the vibes that this whole
• 31:42
  thing is is giving me
• 31:45
  um so i as a candidate like i would be i'd be really asking
• 31:49
  questions to try and
• 31:50
  dig into try and dig into that culture try and figure out what
• 31:55
  it's like try and
• 31:55
  figure out what the the dynamics are going to be like with um
• 32:00
  uh with the person
• 32:00
  that you're the ea for and with the president who is your boss
• 32:03
  um and with the
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: other execs like
• 32:06
  there there could be a little bit of risk of this being a not
• 32:10
  great place for a
• 32:12
  person to be like nobody really wants to be that person who is
• 32:17
  just kind of like
• 32:18
  told to go do all of the menial shit that they don't want to
• 32:21
  deal with yeah um
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: that's not cool
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Payroll runs kind of interested me a little bit.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is a company that has over 250 employees.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: They should have some finance people who should be doing payroll.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like the office manager in a company this size,
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: they should not be doing payroll unless I've misinterpreted that.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really like payroll support of some kind.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: But like this person, you shouldn't be touching payroll.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bad idea.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Health and safety, also a bad idea.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Health and safety is very highly regulated in Canada.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Your responsibilities as an employer are no laughing matter,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: even if it's just for an office job.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: So having the office manager,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: and maybe we'll get into the required educational stuff,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: and it'll say like,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: you must have completed health and safety training or something,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: in which case,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: ignore the comment I'm about to make.
• 33:20
  But an office manager doesn't have the training to manage an
• 33:24
  H&S committee,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: and they shouldn't be.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're leaving yourself open to bad stuff,
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: both from the provincial regulator and from an employee who like,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: themselves.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of sets off big, big warning bells for me.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's all my comments.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, those are all great valid comments.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: We share a lot of similar thoughts.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot to say.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Once upon a time, I was an office manager.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so,
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I look at this and I'm like,
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: it's pretty typical for office manager job with some exceptions.
• 33:58
  It's tying it into the other list we just shared with even more
• 34:04
  bullet points with
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: the executive assistant.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I go back to,
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:08
  it says flexible hybrid working hours and a little note I made
• 34:11
  for myself is like
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: flexible hybrid with these responsibilities.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's not even possible.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: So why even say it?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not going to be true.
• 34:21
  One of the things I noticed when it said be present for visitor
• 34:25
  meetings and larger events.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, visitor meetings, greeting people who are coming in, sure.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Larger events.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about that a little bit.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: In what world do you need your office manager?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: In what capacity do you need your office manager to attend a large event?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be to clean up.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be in a gopher capacity, right?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: So already looking at that,
• 34:52
  it's not like you're going to be adding any kind of like
• 34:54
  strategic value or
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: anything like that.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were there,
• 34:57
  you have to be present because they need someone to take care
• 35:00
  of all of the shit.
• 35:01
  and so like that just that just sucks that just sucks right and
• 35:06
  what happens if
• 35:07
  you're at this large event and one of your six executives that
• 35:11
  you're assisting has
• 35:12
  some kind of emergency but then also the garbage cans need to
• 35:15
  be emptied or like
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know it's just it's just far it's way too much um
• 35:22
  Some of the other things like lunch orders,
• 35:24
  meetings,
• 35:24
  whatever,
• 35:24
  I don't care for any of that.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm not an office manager anymore.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I don't like the, the fridge thing.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Most companies I've worked at do a rotation, like you mentioned.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: So really this person,
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: if,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: if they know what they're doing,
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: if they're an experienced or office mentor,
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: they're not necessarily having to do any of that stuff.
• 35:43
  They're going to do a rotation,
• 35:45
  but what it is,
• 35:46
  is it's hurting even more cats,
• 35:48
  right?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they're already hurting cats with the executives.
• 35:51
  Now they have to do it with all of their office colleagues and
• 35:53
  remind them like,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: it's your turn to empty the dishwasher,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: like that kind of stuff.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah.
• 36:01
  And you're,
• 36:01
  you're doing the same with the health and health and safety
• 36:03
  committee.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing the same with the vendors.
• 36:06
  Um,
• 36:06
  it's your liaison,
• 36:08
  your liaison with the cleaners,
• 36:10
  um,
• 36:11
  building contacts.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a lot.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like to me, this is its own job.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned the payroll.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm confused.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: It did say you were right.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: It says.
• 36:20
  payroll for related deductions coordinate payroll for related
• 36:25
  deductions and
• 36:25
  updates maybe if there's like any kind of like variance or
• 36:29
  something different for
• 36:31
  that payroll cycle but why would this person why would it be
• 36:35
  this person that's
• 36:37
  that's odd to me um yeah so it's a lot i don't like it don't
• 36:43
  care for it i'm not
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: applying spoiler alert um
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Me neither.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about what you'll bring, like you talked about.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: What is the experience?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: What are the requirements?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: What you'll bring?
• 36:57
  Experience as an executive assistant or similar high level
• 37:00
  administrative support role.
• 37:02
  Proven track record to handle one off and time sensitive
• 37:05
  matters with a high degree
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: of proactivity,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: discretion and good judgment.
• 37:11
  Experience handling complex calendars and coordinating meetings
• 37:14
  across multiple time zones.
• 37:16
  proactive nature interest in understanding the business's cycle
• 37:20
  of events and how
• 37:21
  to best support them strong communication skills with the
• 37:24
  ability to correspond
• 37:25
  professionally on behalf of senior executives with internal
• 37:29
  teams external
• 37:30
  collaborators and partners tech savvy and comfortable
• 37:35
  navigating various systems
• 37:36
  and tools example microsoft office suite expense and travel
• 37:40
  platforms shutter um
• 37:43
  Ability to maintain strict confidentiality and handle sensitive
• 37:47
  information with
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: integrity,
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: highly organized,
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: meticulous and able to thrive in a fast paced,
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: ever changing environment.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's stop there.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: You must be tech savvy enough to be able to operate MS Office.
• 38:09
  I hate,
• 38:09
  I also hate like the heebie-jeebies tech savvy or like
• 38:14
  something savvy.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why, but that word to me just like it's me out.
• 38:19
  Yeah,
• 38:23
  it's not a phrase that anyone like of our generation will ever
• 38:28
  use,
• 38:28
  right?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: So to me,
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: that kind of further suggests that this is an organization where the ELT,
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: the executive leadership team,
• 38:39
  is um a little bit up there um and don't really care to like
• 38:42
  learn these things
• 38:43
  which fair you know if you're into your 50s 60s uh and you've
• 38:48
  gone your entire
• 38:49
  career without like making a powerpoint deck yeah don't learn
• 38:53
  it now like you have
• 38:54
  better things to do with your time totally get that totally
• 38:57
  agree with it uh but it
• 39:00
  is kind of weird to go out and be like you must be tech savvy
• 39:03
  to join this
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: organization like
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's not tech savvy like everybody can do that.
• 39:08
  It's not it's not special I'm pretty sure everyone has used MS
• 39:13
  office at some point
• 39:14
  like it's it's weird The word discretion really sticks out to
• 39:20
  me handle things with
• 39:22
  discretion I forget exactly how it was phrased but like it
• 39:26
  really that that was
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: kind of the gist of it like handle situations with discretion,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: okay fine
• 39:32
  That makes me kind of like think the right to these do these
• 39:35
  ELTs get like drunk in
• 39:36
  the office or something and misbehave and you need to clean up
• 39:40
  their messes for
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: them.
• 39:41
  Like,
• 39:41
  is this really,
• 39:42
  you know,
• 39:43
  1970s ad agency Madison Avenue stuff is what's going on here.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that it was called out.
• 39:52
  means that there have been issues before that go above and
• 39:57
  beyond that sense of
• 40:01
  professionalism and professional discretion that's already kind
• 40:05
  of normal.
• 40:06
  Everybody goes to work and knows you don't take sensitive
• 40:10
  information and just walk
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: down the street and blab it to everybody in sight.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: You don't talk about trade secrets at the coffee shop.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know that.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: So there's been some stuff that's gone down that these people are like,
• 40:23
  well you must be able to act with discretion because everybody
• 40:27
  before you has not
• 40:29
  and let's not forget that this is a flippant travel agency they
• 40:32
  are not developing
• 40:34
  like the codes for the nuclear weapons or whatever there's
• 40:38
  nothing super special
• 40:39
  about travel agencies what could you possibly have that is such
• 40:44
  a trade secret that
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: it requires extraordinary discretion
• 40:49
  this is weird to me yeah it's a little bit weird but i also
• 40:53
  think that the person
• 40:54
  who wrote this post isn't someone who thinks about stuff like
• 40:57
  this so maybe it's
• 40:58
  just like a throwaway word that they put out there because
• 41:01
  because i don't know
• 41:03
  yeah because this this person is going to see and hear things
• 41:07
  they're gonna they're
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: gonna come in during meetings to bring people
• 41:11
  their lunch orders and things like that so yeah i i totally get
• 41:15
  why it's mentioned
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: a few times in different ways like discretion is mentioned um strict
• 41:19
  confidentiality handle sensitive information with integrity so
• 41:23
  yeah again like it's
• 41:25
  it's going to come up um very curious uh what kind of history
• 41:30
  they have of
• 41:33
  don't know iffy situations it reads to me very much like like
• 41:38
  we've both mentioned
• 41:38
  it several times but like susan grab me my afternoon scotch and
• 41:42
  get mr smith on you
• 41:43
  know that's the vibe that's the vibe that i'm picking up from
• 41:51
  this and yeah like i
• 41:52
  i didn't want to say that i'm going to slap your ass on the way
• 41:54
  by the desk thing
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: but that's probably what i was thinking of like
• 42:00
  I went to their website and it looks like such a cool and
• 42:02
  exciting organization,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: but like,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: it really goes to show how,
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: like how out of touch some,
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: some people can be.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I would be curious to see what the leadership team looks like,
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: like you mentioned,
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: because even though it seems like kind of
• 42:17
  cool and exciting what they're doing it could be that they're
• 42:19
  just really stuck in
• 42:20
  old ways or they have no sense of like how much they're asking
• 42:24
  someone to do like
• 42:26
  those two job descriptions those are two separate jobs like
• 42:30
  don't be so cheap hire
• 42:32
  two people and get really good results have a like kick-ass
• 42:35
  office manager an
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: amazing ea and
• 42:39
  pay them both what they're worth and they will crush it but one
• 42:42
  person doing all of
• 42:43
  this like how do you even this this will become your entire
• 42:46
  life like this is all
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to be doing is
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: this work.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: So there's one more section here that I'm just going to share with you.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: At the very end,
• 42:58
  we believe people perform best when they can be their true
• 43:02
  selves and diverse teams
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: drive better results.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: We are committed to fostering a diverse,
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: equitable and inclusive environment where everyone can succeed.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: The parent company ensures an inclusive workplace for all.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you need accommodations during the recruitment process,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: please inform us here at blah,
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: blah dot com.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: OK, OK.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: So to me,
• 43:29
  that means that the parent company has a compliance policy and
• 43:33
  stuff that they've
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: developed for their organization and because they've acquired
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: This other organization,
• 43:39
  they're saying you must attach this policy to our statement to
• 43:42
  all of your job
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: postings and you must post this on your website.
• 43:46
  I don't think based on the rest of what was in that job posting
• 43:51
  that there's really
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: any organizational buy-in to any of that.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: I suspect that it's like some lip service.
• 43:57
  maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm being a bit of a jerk um who knows uh
• 44:02
  but it doesn't
• 44:03
  strike me as something that is a thing uh accommodations that's
• 44:08
  good like um even
• 44:10
  where even where there are no legal requirements to offer
• 44:15
  accommodations for an
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: interview which is thankfully like uh
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: increasingly rare,
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: it's a good idea to just say that you're willing to make accommodations,
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you really do believe in inclusivity,
• 44:33
  then you should be able to or you should be able and willing to
• 44:36
  adapt to the people
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: who are like hoping to work for your organization.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean that you...
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: That you have to have every process buttoned down for like the extremes,
• 44:47
  but even simple things like just being open and willing to work
• 44:50
  with the other
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: person to make them comfortable goes a long way.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: It goes a really long way.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: one of the things that I noticed too,
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: because yeah,
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: usually there is,
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: we love an accommodation,
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: as long as they mean it.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing I noticed in the qualifications or requirements,
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: AKA what you'll bring,
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: they don't mention anywhere,
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: any kind of like having to drive,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: having to lift heavy things,
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: having to stand for long periods of time.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this, this role to me reads all of those things, right?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like better to me to,
• 45:26
  to make that explicit in the job posting so that those folks
• 45:30
  who maybe don't meet
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: those requirements don't waste their time or your time.
• 45:36
  Because this is a demanding,
• 45:37
  this is going to be a physically demanding job.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: I see it as driving out to events,
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: going to pick up like,
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: oh shit,
• 45:44
  the caterers forgot to bring like 15 plates going out to go and
• 45:48
  like pick them up.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's going to be that kind of thing.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Picking up dry cleaning because it's the 1960s and
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I, it's missing some pieces.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so here's, here's an important thing.
• 46:02
  the salary is not listed again Ontario it's not yet a
• 46:08
  requirement but I mean do
• 46:10
  better post post them so while the salary isn't posted I went
• 46:16
  to their website and
• 46:17
  they have another job posting listed on their careers page for
• 46:20
  a digital product
• 46:22
  manager and it lists a salary range and the salary range for
• 46:27
  that is between eighty
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: to a hundred thousand plus bonus
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: So why is the salary range listed for that role, but not this one?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: So they also didn't list in the requirements, an educational requirement.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Unless I, yeah.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: So they didn't list that.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't list one of those.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't list number of years of experience in a similar role.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: They just said, you know, be a, be an assistant sort of thing.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 47:03
  so that that suggests to me that they're looking for someone
• 47:07
  who is quite early on
• 47:09
  in their career like they're they're young they're just
• 47:12
  entering the workforce
• 47:13
  maybe they're re-entering the workforce like they they don't
• 47:16
  have a lot of
• 47:17
  experience behind them um this is a lot to put on a person who
• 47:22
  doesn't have a ton
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: of experience it is
• 47:26
  also yeah this lack of salary thing when they post it for
• 47:29
  another job is weird that
• 47:31
  suggests to me that this is a very very lowball offer kind of
• 47:36
  thing uh i'm really
• 47:38
  disappointed that they didn't list a salary because i already
• 47:40
  had a number in my
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: head okay well let's hear it
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: In my brain,
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: all right,
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're going to offer this and I think it should be that.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: So share that with me.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: And before you do that, actually, I agree.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think not listing the salary is by design.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a, oops, I forgot to post the salary.
• 48:04
  They're doing it on purpose because I think that will just be
• 48:09
  decided in the moment
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: based on interest,
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: based on whatever reasons.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't like it at all.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so unfair.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: And again,
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: like when we talk about like gender coded job postings,
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: and this one very much is towards women,
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: female identifying individuals.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's
• 48:34
  when they don't post a salary like it just it really sucks it
• 48:39
  feels completely
• 48:40
  unfair it doesn't feel unfair it is unfair um so yeah okay so
• 48:45
  now let me know what
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: your thoughts are salary wise
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: so the digital product manager salary range,
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: just based on the title alone,
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: that's not bad.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty standard, especially if it's in Toronto.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that actually kind of surprised me a little bit.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that they would lowball that a little bit.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also a really competitive labor market for technical people.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 49:12
  I think that this company has in their mind that this role is
• 49:19
  like 45-5,
• 49:20
  give or take.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's what they would rule out for an offer.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 49:28
  in yeah i i don't feel great about this company based on the
• 49:32
  job put it that way uh
• 49:37
  i think that this job is worth far more uh in the market and i
• 49:45
  kind of agree with
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: you that it should be two jobs unless the the role was structured
• 49:51
  significantly differently or there were other people that were
• 49:54
  kind of working in a
• 49:55
  facility support group if this person is doing everything
• 50:00
  that's listed by themself
• 50:02
  with no support they don't have a chance in hell like they're
• 50:05
  gonna burn it yeah
• 50:07
  pretty quick probably within six months they'll be gone they'll
• 50:12
  be like screw you
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: guys I know exactly yeah
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: If, if this job was valued fairly, I would put it around 85.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:26
  Give or take,
• 50:26
  because you think about,
• 50:27
  you think about what they're,
• 50:29
  what they're doing.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: They've talked about confidentiality and discretion.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: That means that the role intersects with important information.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: You also are the EA for
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: presumably the president.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think it said that they reported to the president.
• 50:44
  I'm just assuming that that means they're also the EA for the
• 50:47
  president and five
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: other senior leaders.
• 50:50
  So you're the EA for six people whose combined salary is over a
• 50:57
  million easily,
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: probably closer to 1.5.
• 51:01
  So you're basically making sure that they can do their job by
• 51:05
  hurting them.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: you need to be paid accordingly.
• 51:09
  Like if you're an EA for,
• 51:11
  I don't know,
• 51:12
  a director or a line manager,
• 51:13
  different.
• 51:15
  But this is like,
• 51:16
  this is executive assistant,
• 51:18
  like to the senior leadership team.
• 51:19
  So the price goes up because you need people who are capable in
• 51:22
  that kind of role.
• 51:24
  So I value this like 85,
• 51:26
  but I doubt very much that's what they're offering.
• 51:29
  likewise I um I put that I thought it should be like a 75 to 95
• 51:36
  base um again I've
• 51:38
  worked with a lot of EAs EAs good EAs make really good money
• 51:42
  because they're really
• 51:43
  good at what they do these are challenging jobs and and
• 51:47
  challenging personalities
• 51:48
  as well and so yeah a good EA is worth their weight in gold um
• 51:53
  so 75 to 95 I put
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: signals that it's not going to be that range are the,
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: to me,
• 52:00
  stinginess with a vacation under staffing by combining two
• 52:05
  clearly separate roles
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: into one.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: lots of applicants so they can they can price it much lower and still get
• 52:14
  applicants so I think I was a bit more generous I was like
• 52:18
  maybe 60 to 65 but
• 52:21
  you're probably closer it's in Toronto so that's kind of why I
• 52:24
  put it up a little
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: bit more and
• 52:29
  I also did a quick search on Glassdoor to look at their rating
• 52:36
  and it's like a 3.8.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not great.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're kind of right on the button here with this.
• 52:48
  Yeah,
• 52:49
  one of the things that I would have liked to have seen too is
• 52:51
  something like
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because we understand that this is a dual scope role.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: We will be providing like the tools,
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: the support,
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: the structure required for success,
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: but there's no kind of acknowledgement about that whatsoever,
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like,
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: it kind of feels like,
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 53:07
  you're lucky if you get this role and we'll give you a discount
• 53:11
  on expeditions.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: You'll never be able to afford to go on or take time to go on.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: So what is your final rating out of 10 for this?
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, there's not a lot that excites me about this.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: If I was a lawyer, I'd be super excited about this.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to bill some hours to this person in about six months.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Can you hear it?
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think I would rate this job posting...
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: like a three out of 10.
• 53:45
  And that is largely because of the operational kind of things
• 53:52
  about the role and
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: the org structure and everything like this.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: This role, it just does not work.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna go well.
• 54:01
  Like the organization is gonna be continuously searching for
• 54:04
  someone to do this
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: role and it's like,
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: no,
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: you guys really need to change the role.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, three out of 10.
• 54:10
  yeah yeah and I do wonder like we talked about is this a
• 54:13
  replacement role was it
• 54:14
  two roles and they're decided they decided to kind of save some
• 54:18
  money and combine
• 54:19
  it like all sorts of things um yeah I originally was thinking
• 54:23
  like four out of ten
• 54:24
  because like what the company does reads as exciting to me uh
• 54:29
  and I am kind of I
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: drawn to
• 54:32
  the mission and the purpose of the organization when I'm
• 54:36
  looking at jobs.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Nah, three.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: Three out of ten.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna like if we if we see this role again in a couple of months,
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: we need to talk about it because
• 54:48
  uh yeah i i don't foresee things going well and bless this
• 54:52
  person and like we like
• 54:54
  we always say like this is these conversations are from a place
• 54:58
  of privilege like
• 54:59
  people if you need a job you need a job apply for it um go for
• 55:04
  it but it's about
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: really knowing what you're walking into and preparing like
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: protecting yourself,
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: preparing your nervous system and understanding that you're like,
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: eyes wide open.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 55:17
  Just go into it eyes wide open because this does not sound
• 55:20
  pleasant at all.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
• 55:23
  There are tons of folks who they're between a rock and a hard
• 55:26
  place and they need a job.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like do that.
• 55:31
  But,
• 55:32
  you know,
• 55:33
  like Jen said,
• 55:34
  go into it knowing what you're getting yourself into.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Ask the questions that kind of tease out like,
• 55:40
  is this a place where you could stay or is this a place where
• 55:42
  you could hang out
• 55:43
  for a year while you continue to look for something else that's
• 55:46
  better for you?
• 55:47
  um as like a business owner entrepreneur like person who's been
• 55:52
  on the other side
• 55:53
  of it um i hate that i just said that because business owner
• 55:57
  you never want people
• 55:59
  to leave even when you are like giving them the shaft and
• 56:02
  underpaying them and
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: whatever but the social contract
• 56:06
  between employers and employees that used to mean loyalty from
• 56:12
  employees meant
• 56:13
  something has completely eroded it's been it's been gone for
• 56:17
  years so folks who are
• 56:19
  looking for a job like don't feel bad about doing what you need
• 56:23
  to do to like keep
• 56:25
  yourself fed and clothed and housed and don't feel bad for a
• 56:31
  lack of loyalty if you
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: keep looking after taking an offer
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: if someone's not going to extend to you respect and loyalty and honesty,
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: why do they deserve it from you?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that,
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: it doesn't have to be your next job doesn't have to be your forever home.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a stepping stone to the next place.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I 100% agree.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't owe anything to anyone.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: You could take this shitty job and you could stay for a month
• 57:05
  and then leave and go to your next job and you don't owe them
• 57:08
  anything more than that.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you need to take care of yourself, do what's best for you.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's tough out there.
• 57:17
  And this is why we are not putting the names of any companies
• 57:22
  in our show episodes
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: because they'd be like,
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: let's write them a lawyer letter.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know,
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: even though I feel like we drop enough breadcrumbs,
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: maybe we need to do a little bit better there,
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: but we'll we'll see.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see what comes out of this.
• 57:39
  Thanks for hanging out with us on Roast the Post,
• 57:41
  the story behind the bullet points.
• 57:43
  If today's teardown helped you see a role more clearly or
• 57:46
  helped you understand why
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: some postings feel like structural puzzles waiting to happen,
• 57:51
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• 57:54
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• 57:57
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• 57:58
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• 58:01
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• 58:03
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• 58:04
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• 58:04
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• 58:06
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• 58:09
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• 58:12
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• 58:13
  We'll see you next time with another roasted post to lay out on
• 58:16
  the dinner table.