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7: Soul as Relater · Finding God at Work

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  (Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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  This is Finding God at Work.
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  Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
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  isn't just a podcast, it's also an online
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  course.
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  Check it out at FindingGodAtWork.org.
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  Our current series is wholehearted, becoming healthier Christians
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  at work.
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  I want you to think about a time
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  when you've interacted with someone, and it seems
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  like they don't really care about you, but
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  they have to pretend they care about you
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  to be professional in their job.
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  Me and Katie, when we were engaged, we
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  were really young, we were still in college,
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  we didn't have any credit history, and we
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  knew that once we got married, we were
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  going to rent an apartment together, so it
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  might be helpful to have some credit history
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  for a credit check.
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  So we went to a fifth-third branch
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  and met with a banker there, and I
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  forget his name, but he was very polite,
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  very professional, and he explained to us this
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  concept of a secured credit card, where your
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  credit limit is connected to what's in your
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  checking account, so the bank knows in advance
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  that you can pay it off fully, but
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  you can still start building credit using that
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  secured credit card.
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  So we're like, great, that's a great way
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  to start building credit, let's do that.
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  We want to sign up for one, and
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  then when we said we wanted to sign
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  up for one, it pivoted, and he just
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  really wanted us to sign up for two.
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  He was like, look, someday when you buy
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  a house, people are going to want to
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  see multiple lines of credit, so you should
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  really have multiple lines of credit as you
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  get started here, and it just didn't make
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  sense to us.
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  We were like, we're not trying to buy
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  a house anytime soon, we're just starting our
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  credit history, we only need one, and we
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  like, we stood our ground, we're like, we
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  just want one, but clearly he was he
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  was disappointed.
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  At the time, it just felt awkward to
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  me, I didn't know what was going on.
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  In hindsight, I realized he probably earned a
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  commission for every credit line he sold, and
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  so if we had signed up for two,
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  he would have made more money, and so
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  I don't think it was really a disinterested
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  desire for our well-being to build credit
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  with multiple lines of credit.
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  I think he was chasing that commission for
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  himself.
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  I have a friend who calls this, oh,
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  I smell commission breath, and it never feels
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  good, right, for somebody to interact with us
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  in a way that seems like our best
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  interests are not what they're after, they're after
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  their own interests.
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  They're not loving us in a disinterested way,
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  they're trying to work their own angle, and
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  this is just normal human relationships in the
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  workplace.
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  People pursue their own interests, people try to
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  manipulate each other, people get what they can
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  get from each other.
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  That's the norm, that's how human beings normally
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  relate, and as followers of Jesus, we want
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  to experience and offer something different.
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  We want to figure out how can we
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  actually love other people, and in this series,
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  as we talk about the different aspects of
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  the person with which we can love God,
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  loving God with all our heart and with
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  all our soul and with all our mind
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  and with all our strength, we want to
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  love God with that capacity that we have
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  to relate to God and to other human
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  beings.
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  And I think as we dig into Scripture,
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  we'll see that it's the life that Jesus
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  gives us that redeems and restores our capacity
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  to relate to God and to relate to
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  other people in the workplace with disinterested love
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  for them.
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  So for the next three episodes, including this
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  one, I'm going to use the word soul
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  to describe different aspects of the person, but
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  again, that Hebrew word nefesh, which is sometimes
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  translated soul, that includes your body.
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  So I don't mean to use the word
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  soul as a way of saying, oh, your
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  body isn't involved in this process, because as
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  we talk about it, your body is definitely
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  involved in all these processes.
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  But I think that in the English language,
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  the word soul has a poetic relevance that's
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  helpful, and it connects to certain words that
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  are used in the Bible as well, because
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  it conveys this idea that there's a hidden
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  aspect to us that's more than our body.
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  It's not visible in the same way that
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  our bodies is.
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  It's not fully encompassed simply by biology.
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  There's more to us and more to it.
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  And the three aspects of it that we're
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  going to be looking at in these episodes
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  are our soul as relater, our soul as
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  integrator, and our soul as receiver.
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  We are meant to relate, integrate, and receive
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  as human beings.
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  That's part of what it means to be
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  human, is to be able to relate to
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  God and others, to be integrated as a
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  whole being, and to receive from God.
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  So we'll dig into all of that in
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  future episodes.
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  So our soul as relater, our relational soul,
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  where do we see this in Scripture?
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  One of the places we see it is
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  in Genesis 2.
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  Now, if you've been tracking with the faith
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  and work conversation, you know Genesis 2 is
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  an important passage for those ideas because of
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  verse 15, which says, the Lord God took
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  the man and put him in the garden
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  of Eden to work it and care for
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  it.
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  That the first thing God does for humanity
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  is give us a job, give us work
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  to do.
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  That's part of our life with God.
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  But an even more foundational verse comes a
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  few verses earlier.
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  This is in verse seven.
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  Then the Lord God formed a man from
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  the dust of the ground and breathed into
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  his nostrils the breath of life, and the
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  man became a living being.
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  So we see here before God can give
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  us a job to do, God has to
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  make us, God creates us, God gives us
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  life.
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  And that life is not just biological life,
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  it's also relational life.
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  We see this in the fact that God
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  has been interacting and talking with humanity as
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  the chapter goes on.
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  So in verse 16, and the Lord God
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  commanded the man, you are free to eat
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  from any tree in the garden, but you
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  must not eat from the tree of the
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  knowledge of good and evil, for when you
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  eat of it, you will certainly die.
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  The Lord God said, it is not good
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  for the man to be alone, I will
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  make a helper suitable for him.
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  So just in those couple of verses, we
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  see God is having a conversation with the
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  man.
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  He's talking about the man's life in the
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  garden.
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  He's giving this warning about the capacity of
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  the man to die.
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  If he departs from this command, he's giving
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  about the tree of life.
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  And then he's saying, it's not good for
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  the man to be alone.
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  The man has a capacity to relate and
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  need someone to relate to.
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  And so then God says, okay, I will
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  make a helper.
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  Now that word helper can get really loaded.
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  Sometimes it's been misinterpreted.
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  Don't have time to dig into that fully
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  here in this podcast episode, but the main
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  use of that word helper in the Bible
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  is to describe God himself.
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  So when it says that God is going
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  to make a helper for the man, the
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  woman helps the man the same way that
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  God helps us.
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  So it's not like a subjugation thing.
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  It's part of a vision of disinterested love
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  in community with one another.
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  This is right at the beginning of human
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  life.
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  God creates us, he gives us life, he
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  breathes his life into us, and then he
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  gives us a capacity to relate to him
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  in conversation with him and then to relate
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  to each other.
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  But as you know, as the story goes
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  on, that capacity to relate to God and
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  to relate to other people is disrupted.
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  It's disrupted by sin.
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  And one of the metaphors that the Bible
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  uses for this is death.
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  Just like God said, you will surely die
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  if you die.
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  What does that mean?
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  What does it mean that it's a spiritual
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  death?
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  It's not like their bodies immediately die.
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  Again, this is why the language of soul
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  can be helpful.
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  It's a spiritual death or a soulful death
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  because their capacity to relate to God is
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  now deeply compromised.
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  Their capacity to relate to each other is
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  now deeply compromised.
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  And then in the New Testament, after Jesus'
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  death and resurrection, the disciples of Jesus are
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  reflecting on this idea of death and life,
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  and they realize in the death and resurrection
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  of Jesus, God has redeemed that which was
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  compromised.
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  God has redeemed that ruptured relationship to restore
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  and bring reconciliation.
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  It's just one of many passages that talks
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  about this.
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  Romans chapter 6, starting in verse 8, talks
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  about how as we enter into God's life
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  given through Christ, we become interactive with God
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  again.
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  So Paul says, now if we died with
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  Christ, we believe that we will also live
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  with him.
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  For we know that since Christ was raised
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  from the dead, he cannot die again.
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  Death no longer has mastery over him.
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  The death he died, he died to sin
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  once for all.
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  But the life he lives, he lives to
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  God.
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  In the same way, count yourselves dead to
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  sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
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  So you see what Paul is doing?
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  He's saying Jesus' death and resurrection reverses this
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  rupture.
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  Rather than being dead to God and alive
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  to sin, now, because of Jesus' death, we
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  die with him, and we're dead to sin,
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  and then we rise with him, and we're
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  alive to God.
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  We can be restored in that interactive relationship
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  with God.
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  As usual, Dallas Willard says it best.
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  He kind of gives this idea of what
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  does it mean to have this specific kind
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  of life, this relational capacity, and how does
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  God restore it?
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  This is going to be a longer quote.
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  This is from Dallas' book, Hearing God, which
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  was originally published with the title In Search
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  of Guidance.
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  I'm reading from that older edition of it.
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  And he talks about a cabbage and a
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  kitten and then us to talk about different
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  kinds of life, and I just find it
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  incredibly helpful.
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  Life in its various levels and types is
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  power to act and respond in specific kinds
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  of relations.
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  A cabbage has certain powers of action and
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  response and a corresponding level of life.
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  There is a big difference between a cabbage
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  that is alive and one that is dead,
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  though the dead one still exists.
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  The same is true of a kitten.
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  But even though alive, a cabbage has no
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  response to a ball of string, which is
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  precisely owing to the kind of life that
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  is in it.
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  Though alive as a cabbage, it is dead
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  to the realm of play.
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  Similarly, a kitten playing with the string has
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  no response to numbers and poetry, and in
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  this sense is dead to the realms of
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  arithmetic and literature.
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  The live cabbage, though dead to one realm,
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  that of play, is yet alive in another,
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  that of the soil and the sun and
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  the rain, and the same can be said
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  of the kitten.
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  Human beings were once alive to God.
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  They were created to be responsive to and
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  interactive with Him.
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  Adam and Eve lived in a conversational relationship,
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  daily renewed, with their Creator.
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  Their mistrust and disobedience toward God cut them
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  off from the realm of the Spirit.
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  Thus they became dead in relation to it,
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  much as the kitten is dead to arithmetic.
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  As God said, in the day that you
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  eat thereof, you will certainly die.
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  And they did.
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  Biologically, they continued to live, of course, but
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  they ceased to be responsive and interactive in
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  relation to God's kingly cosmic rule.
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  It was necessary for God to confer an
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  additional level of life on them and their
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  children through a birth from above, in order
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  for them to once again live unto God,
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  to be able to respond toward and act
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  within the realm of the Spirit.
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  Isn't that beautiful?
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  Like, we don't want to be a cabbage.
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  We don't want to be dead even to
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  something like string.
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  But we also don't want to be a
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  kitten.
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  We don't want to be dead to literature
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  and poetry.
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  We are human beings.
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  We were created to be alive to God
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  Himself and to one another.
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  That's what God restores when we receive what
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  Dallas calls an additional birth, when we are
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  born again or born from above through faith
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  in Jesus Christ and through the waters of
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  baptism.
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  That's what Paul's getting at as well in
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  Romans chapter 5.
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  Now, if we died with Christ, we believe
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  that we will also live with Him.
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  We're back into that realm of interaction and
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  love.
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  But it's not just interaction.
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  It's not just interaction, because obviously, people can
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  interact with each other in all sorts of
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  terrible ways.
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  What God is restoring is our capacity to
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  interact with Him in a way that lets
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  us interact with other people out of disinterested
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  love.
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  God is curing our commission breath.
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  And of course, it's not just commissions.
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  It's the fact that whenever we relate to
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  another human being, we are always tempted to
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  relate to that person as an object to
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  use rather than a person to love.
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  We're always tempted to have that attitude of
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  what's in it for me.
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  So if it's a client and we're a
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  salesperson, it's, I gotta get the sale.
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  I don't really care about them as a
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  person.
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  I care about getting the sale.
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  If it's a coworker, it's, I care about
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  getting this project done.
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  I really care about them as a person.
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  I care about how we have to get
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  this work done together so I can get
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  my paycheck.
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  And so on.
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  It's just so easy to approach other people
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  as means to an end rather than an
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  end in themselves.
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  But when our life with Christ restores our
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  capacity to relate to God and to relate
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  to other people, this changes.
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  And I love how Dietrich Bonhoeffer describes this
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  in his book, Life Together.
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  He's talking about how that restoration with God
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  influences our interactions with each other as Christians.
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  So Bonhoeffer writes, a Christian comes to others
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  only through Jesus Christ.
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  Among men, there is strife.
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  He is our peace, says Paul of Jesus
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  Christ.
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  Without Christ, there is discord between God and
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  man and between man and man.
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  Christ became the mediator and made peace with
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  God and among men.
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  Without Christ, we should not know God.
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  We could not call upon him nor come
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  to him.
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  But without Christ, we also would not know
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  our brother, nor could we come to him.
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  The way is blocked by our own ego.
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  Christ opened up the way to God and
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  to our brother.
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  In another passage in the same book, Bonhoeffer
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  talks about Jesus Christ standing between two people.
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  That we don't relate to that person directly,
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  we relate to them through Jesus.
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  That restoration of life with God is the
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  context in which we have restoration of life
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  with them.
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  So now, what does this mean for our
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  relationships in the workplace?
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  The context that Bonhoeffer is speaking to, and
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  the context that Paul is speaking to as
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  well, is of Christians, people who share this
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  redemption in Jesus Christ.
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  So if you have co-workers or clients
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  or others who are Christians who are redeemed,
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  who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ,
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  who have been baptized into the community of
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  faith, there is a special union you have
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  with those people, regardless of how well you
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  know them or not.
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  You are united with them through Jesus Christ
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  in a hidden way that's deeply true.
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  And it's not something you have to manufacture
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  or realize, it's something you can participate in.
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  And so I would say that the way
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  to participate in it, in work relationships, is
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  to appeal to it when necessary.
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  So if you get into a bad conflict
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  with a co-worker and you say something
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  you shouldn't have, you should not only as
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  a good co-worker humble yourself and apologize.
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  You should also, as a sister or brother
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  in Christ, humble yourself and ask their forgiveness
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  as a brother or sister in Christ in
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  the name of Jesus, in the character of
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  Jesus, and receive that forgiveness.
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  And to know that Christ is the one
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  who ultimately can reconcile the two of you.
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  Now sometimes it doesn't work out that neatly
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  entitledly.
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  As we've talked about in a recent episode,
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  sometimes we're not able to always realize that
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  reconciliation in the way we would hope, and
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  we have to trust that love covers a
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  multitude of sins.
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  But this also raises the question, well what
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  about people who aren't Christians at all, right?
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  Like what about my Hindu co-worker or
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  my atheist co-worker or my like kind
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  of quasi-Christian co-worker who doesn't really
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  care that much about their faith as such,
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  but it's more of a cultural thing.
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  What about those relationships?
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  I would say there isn't the same fullness
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  of reconciliation as a deep spiritual reality that
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  has already been accomplished through Christ for those
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  people, although there always remains the potential for
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  that.
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  Every human being can come into union with
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  Christ.
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  They have that potential, and so we can
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  always have that openness to see what God
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  might do to bring somebody into union with
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  himself and then also with us.
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  But one way to think about it is
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  we can still relate to them through Jesus
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  Christ, so to speak.
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  So that image of Christ standing between two
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  brothers or sisters in Christ can also be
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  Christ standing between us and that other person,
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  even if they're not reconciled to God through
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  Christ, because our capacity to love that other
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  person has been restored through Christ.
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  We look at them through Christ.
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  We look at them as someone who has
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  potential for glorious life in Christ.
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  We look at them as somebody who deserves
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  deep love and compassion and understanding in every
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  moment.
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  What this restoration of life allows us to
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  do is to love people disinterestedly, to seek
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  their well-being regardless of what's in it
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  for us.
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  When I worked at the mortgage company, we
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  had a loan officer who was very EQ
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  smart, very sociable, excellent conversationalist, but behind the
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  scenes you could tell if people weren't a
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  source of money for him, you didn't really
• 16:57
  care about them, and just goes like, oh,
• 16:59
  you hate that, right?
• 17:00
  Like you want people who really care about
• 17:02
  other people.
• 17:02
  Well, even if you are in sales, again,
• 17:05
  when you've been redeemed by Jesus Christ, when
• 17:06
  your capacity to relate to God and others
• 17:08
  has been restored, you can pursue the sale
• 17:12
  with a deep regard for the other person
• 17:15
  as a human being and care more about
• 17:19
  their well-being than about getting the sale.
• 17:22
  Now, what does that require?
• 17:24
  It requires confidence that if you don't get
• 17:26
  the sale, you will be okay.
• 17:29
  It requires confidence that if you don't use
• 17:31
  manipulation, if you don't use dishonesty, if you
• 17:33
  don't use hard pressure tactics, that God still
• 17:36
  has your back, that God will take care
• 17:39
  of you.
• 17:40
  And then that frees you to not use
• 17:42
  those kind of tactics that are commissioned, breath
• 17:44
  stinky, and instead to genuinely seek the other
• 17:47
  person's best interest in whatever way you can,
• 17:50
  including selling them something that could really help
• 17:52
  them, because if you're selling something that's a
• 17:54
  genuine product or genuine service that meets real
• 17:57
  needs, then that often in a sales relationship
• 17:59
  is the best way.
• 18:00
  You can seek the other person's interest to
• 18:01
  say like, hey, how many of these do
• 18:02
  you need?
• 18:03
  How can I help?
• 18:03
  But you always do that with the assumption
• 18:05
  that it's the other person who deeply matters,
• 18:07
  regardless of whether the sale goes through or
• 18:09
  not, not just as a posture of pretending
• 18:11
  that, but as a deep part of how
• 18:13
  you regard that other person.
• 18:15
  Just a simple example of this.
• 18:17
  My brother works out of Walgreens.
• 18:18
  He's worked at Walgreens for several years.
• 18:20
  Somebody came in recently looking for nose clips.
• 18:24
  And my brother was like, oh, you mean
• 18:25
  like the nose clips for snoring?
• 18:26
  And they're like, no, no, no, not the
• 18:27
  ones to keep your nose open, the ones
• 18:28
  to keep your nose closed, the ones for
• 18:29
  swimming.
• 18:30
  And he like looked in the catalog and
• 18:32
  he's like, we don't have those, but you
• 18:33
  know, Walmart does.
• 18:35
  And he sent the person over to Walmart.
• 18:36
  Really simple example.
• 18:37
  But my brother in that moment was seeking
• 18:39
  the well-being of the other person.
• 18:41
  He wasn't just trying to get the sale
• 18:43
  done for Walgreens.
• 18:44
  He was trying to get that person what
• 18:45
  they needed, even though the business went somewhere
• 18:47
  else.
• 18:47
  We should always have that attitude.
• 18:49
  How can I do what's right for the
• 18:51
  other person?
• 18:52
  And of course, sales is just one aspect
• 18:54
  of all our lives in the workplace.
• 18:56
  We have a chance to interact with other
• 18:58
  people dozens of times every day, usually.
• 19:00
  And in every interaction, because of how God
• 19:03
  has restored us, we can seek the other
• 19:05
  person's well-being with disinterested love for them.
• 19:11
  Lord Jesus, thank you that you do restore
• 19:13
  our soul, that you bring us back into
• 19:17
  life through the power of your resurrection, that
• 19:19
  you give us a capacity to interact with
• 19:21
  God and with other people in deep, genuine
• 19:24
  love.
• 19:26
  We ask that you would do that for
• 19:27
  us, that we would feel your patience, your
• 19:29
  gentleness, your compassion for other people as we
• 19:33
  go about our work day, that we would
• 19:34
  seek their good.
• 19:36
  Do your work in us as we do
• 19:37
  our work with you.
• 19:39
  Amen.
• 19:44
  Thanks for listening.
• 19:45
  Finding God at Work is a production of
• 19:47
  Mission Central, a ministry based in Aurora, Illinois
• 19:49
  dedicated to forming Christians for mission in everyday
• 19:52
  life.
• 19:53
  You can subscribe to the podcast wherever you
• 19:55
  listen to this episode to get 10 minutes
• 19:57
  of teaching on faith and work every Tuesday
• 19:59
  and Thursday.
• 20:00
  To get resources to go deeper with each
• 20:02
  podcast series, read our blog, and get info
• 20:05
  about upcoming courses on faith in the workplace,
• 20:07
  go to our website, missioncentral.church.