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From Baptist to Brethren: How Every Church Shaped Our Faith · HOTLCAST

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, or whatever time you might be watching this, listening to this, enjoying this with us.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Hobocast.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is Pastor Matt.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Carver.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Mark.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Who's also here, always in the corner, but we still love him.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, this week we are talking about the idea of being a spiritual mutt.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was a really cool sermon from Kyle, where it was evaluating what the things are that you put as priority whenever it comes to how you are living out your faith, the things you're prioritizing, and the things that you're viewing as being the most important pieces and parts of the things that you do on a daily basis to live out your faith.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he covered a lot of different topics and a lot of different ways that people look at that.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a really cool sermon.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: So uh actually, Ryan, we'll start with you.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: What were some of your takeaways?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because you had said that you're kind of the opposite.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: We were just talking before this actually started, but you were just saying you're kind of the opposite of a spiritual mutt, that you've sort of been a one-trick pony for a little bit, right?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I mean, my my experience with with you know diff people's different versions of I guess I could say Christianity is is pretty limited.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I went to school, I went to school, I went to to church till I was about 12, an Episcopal church, but it wasn't, it was you know that like maybe like once a month, once every two weeks kind of thing.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And no little connection with God and and very, very little community.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I it didn't uh that stuff didn't really set with me.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and so until I started coming to Heart of Lakes, I I really kind of just was wondering.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I and I think but I think that was a lot of the a a lot of the reason, you know, you can look out and see how all these different groups have so many different ideas, and and so much of it seems to be not biblical.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think that's part of what is drawn me so much here is that it's like, okay, is it a biblical imperative?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we have to stick to it.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is it not?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Great, that it doesn't matter, you know, and and that's kind of kind of what I got out of Kyle Serpent.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm gonna actually save you for last, Carver, because I know that you and I have both been to most of the same churches over the time.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: But Mark, I know that for you, Heart of the Lakes has kind of been largely it for your experience.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I grew up going to Baptist churches, like that's where my grandparents were raised.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to like a one and one and out in Cement City, and then um when I was nine, yeah, we started coming to Heart of the Lakes, and I've kind of been here the whole time.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: So like I got a little I got a little mix, but I'm very largely like just hodl.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen the changes that we've made over time and how the culture that Kyle has established and the way he's kind of made it more about people and loving people and anybody, whatever their background is, like being there for them, having like a passion for them, pointing them to Jesus regardless.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I've mostly settled in the same spot.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, with those changes, have there been any that you've seen along the way where you're like, why wasn't the church doing this the whole time?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why why isn't this just naturally a progression of what church is?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, the upgrades that we made when Kyle got here to like the gym, the sanctuary, adjusting the sound booth, upgrading the lighting system.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, all of it was like, oh, that that makes so much sense.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Why, why did we do it?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because like before the windows that were in the sides, like the they're blocked out now, but they used to be like all the way through to the other sides.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like the light from outside kept coming in, especially on the bottom.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, like when it was like super sunny, all of a sudden it'd get super dark in the sanctuary when the clouds went over and it would get very ominous.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like you'd just sit there and the pastor would be preaching, and all of a sudden the clouds would come in and you'd just get and you'd be like you're waiting for the curtain to tear.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like, oh no, what's about to happen right now?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so, like, changes like that made sense to me because I'm like, Yeah, you want better control, you don't want it to be distracting because it's pulling away from me, like actually paying attention to what's going on.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like upgrading the cameras.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: I used to run two camcorders up in the tech booth when I was 11.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: So when we got like actual nice cameras, I was like, Oh, why didn't we ever do that before?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: So it was cool to see how that influenced him.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Carver.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is the one that I've been kind of excited to hear about because for your spiritual mutt experience, it's been through your childhood.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's the earliest church that you remember attending?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's a good question.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um probably Old North.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So Old North was a Baptist church in Canfield, Ohio.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, your experience there, you probably don't have a ton of memories of.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have anything that you kind of can recall that was part of maybe something that was foundational to you during that time?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Not really.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: I would almost say, like, because I know I've been to a couple different churches and I remember them pretty pretty impactfully, but I think I almost lean more to where Mark's at.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've been coming to this church since I was nine, and it's like my my impact's kind of more from this church, because like I was I was just in children's ministry with those other churches, so like it wasn't like it impacted me as great as like it currently is now.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I remember, you know, I remember like but like most children's ministry, you know, they teach us a similar story, so it's like I got I got that out of that.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we sang songs, we we had fun, and it was like that didn't really change that much.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas now that I've kind of I was in children's ministry, I then I was in youth, and now I'm you know, doing stuff with all this, it's kind of like it's I'm more in Mark's place where like I I've kind of seen this growth here at the church, and that's kind of I think impacted me more than you know being at three other churches that I, you know, I was kind of just in a similar experience with.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's absolutely that makes complete sense.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for me, I grew up, you you may have heard Kyle talk on Sunday about how one of the churches that he had worked at was a fellowship of Grace Brethren churches, was the denomination.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not really denomination, but it's a group of churches that kind of believe like-minded things.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I had actually grown up in that, and it was it was different.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was definitely different from what maybe most experiences are.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Kyle talks frequently about how there are times where it felt like, you know, waterboarding for Jesus because their baptism practice is three times forward.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in the name of the Father, under the water, in the name of the Son, under the water, in the name of the Holy Spirit, under the water, and then you're baptized.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's one of those things where each church has its own, its own flavor on how they do things.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And just because it doesn't necessarily match what flavor you like or you prefer or you agree with, as long as they're doing it for the Lord, as long as they're doing it with the intent of being for Jesus and following him and doing it to the best of their ability to understand, if we look at all the denominations that exist, somebody's wrong.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay, because in some areas it might be us, in some areas it might be someone else.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: In some areas, we look at that and we can collectively say, we're doing the best we can to serve, love, and follow Jesus, or even as Kyle puts it, as to know Jesus and to make him known.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And as we're kind of walking through that and trying to learn what that looks like for each person, it's going to be a little bit of a different experience and a different understanding of how you want to take that on and what you want that to look like.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up in one and then I served at a Baptist church, I served at a non-denominational church, I was on staff at both of those, I was on staff again at a Fellowship of Grace Brethren churches, and all of the different experiences that I've had through there were part of what made me me.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't ever want to see anybody who said, you know, well, I went to a Baptist church as a kid, or I went to, you know, to a Pentecostal church as a kid.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Feel like the time that they spent in those church structures and in those church systems were going to be returned void.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're not.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: No matter where you've been, what you've gone through, there is something that God could use during that time to teach you.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you've walked away with church hurt, you're able to come out of it and say, There was still something that I gained from that.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts, Ryan?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I I think you I can look at that perspective.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I I only can relate on my very limited experience, you know, and and so I I think that um yeah, probably probably I probably got some foundational stuff from even just the the the limited amount of time.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just going to Sunday, standing up, sitting down, standing up, sitting down, um, knowing knowing the right right prayer to to chant all at the same time.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I you know don't get ostracized.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh but no, I no, but on a on a even on the most basic level, I mean it introduced me to God, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like it opened me up to that.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, had I not had that that foundation, I maybe just maybe I wouldn't have been that open when when God really started moving in my life.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I can get behind that.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So here's a question for each of you.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can kind of answer it however you see fit.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: One of the big things that kind of drew me into the UB, and I looked at and I'm like, wow, this is really cool, the way they address this was in the essentials, unity, in the non-essentials, liberty, and in all things, charity.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: When you guys hear that, what does that mean for you, whoever wants to start?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I love it because it establishes there are things that are foundational for Christianity.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like there are things that you can't waver on.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: That it's Jesus clearly said this, this is clearly established in scripture.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's not negotiable.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: And in that stuff, we need to be unified.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: That stuff we need to be on the same page.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: We need to understand Jesus Christ is my savior, yes, he died for my sins, yes, through him is how I forget my forgiveness, yes, all these things.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: The Bible is the word of God, yes.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like we need to be on the same page as Christians.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, as a denomination, they understand, hey, we we gotta understand this, and then in the non-essentials, things that are not essential in scripture, things that are debatable, things that are conviction-based.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: You can have leniency, you can have liberty in.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: I might feel convicted about something.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I feel convicted to never drink, never have alcohol.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, like for me, that's a pretty strong conviction.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I can love somebody who doesn't have the same conviction.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, Yeah, I have a I can have a drink like every couple weeks or so.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: For both of us, it's like, yeah, I have the liberty, you have the liberty to do that, I have the liberty to do what I need to do, and we can still be at peace.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then I love the charity part because we always should be compassionate and loving.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think what happens is when you get used to something that's good, like a denomination, you assume that anything that doesn't look exactly like it is bad.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not always the case.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: Is God is God being praised, is God being focused, is scripture being put out there?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: If all those things are, sweet.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Are we singing classical liturgy with a pipe organ in the building?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, but a church that does that still can have beautiful stuff that honors God.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like one of the most beautiful like things I remember experiencing was I went to Chicago once uh with a buddy.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: We were going, like it was a spring break at college, and so we took him back home because it was a long drive, and we're like, hey, you're not gonna go alone, we're going with you.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: And we showed up at the cathedral he grew up in because he was he's Catholic, and it's in downtown Chicago, it's this massive cathedral.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: We got there at 10:30, the candles are all lit, and the organist was practicing in the middle of the night, and it was phenomenal, it was stunning.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: It like helped like it helps understand like the sheer magnitude and beauty of Christ and God and what he does.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then you compare that to the worship we do here, where we do Crowder, we do Brandon Lake.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: What are either of those wrong?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a different way to connect with God, a different way to come to God.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think the stuff we do is more personal.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think the stuff they do is more grand.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I think both of those are qualities of God.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: God is massive, God's bigger than the universe, but he's also in relationship with us.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: So because it's different than what I'm used to, that doesn't mean it's wrong.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the thing that I'm glad I learned from Kyle, from you guys, from the experience that our church has intentionally been doing.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Is because is is it honoring God?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Is it glorifying God?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: Is it pushing people towards Christ?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's figure out the minutiae then.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Let's work through it, let's love through it, let's care through it, let's be honorable through it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for that monologue.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of thoughts I had on that.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: I was really because it's been a cool thing for me to think about.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I I love to love people no matter where they're coming from.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think it's I think it's really cool.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've never really gotten the hang-ups of why churches can't work together.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I get it in aspect because like they want to do things their way and they don't want to do it someone else's way.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: But like at the end of the day, I like we're called to love God, love people.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the day, I feel like if we all agree on that, we should be able to work together because we all have the same like-minded goal.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we want to love God and we want to go out and love people.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it's it's it's weird, and it's I get why people have hangups, but it like I like the United Brother and how how we do it, and I th I think it's really good, and I really wouldn't want to do it any other way.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Anything to add, Ryan?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I I I I I agree with both of you guys.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it makes sense.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I think it a lot of it for me, I I see it as as a a common a common denominator type thing, and and how how people would the when people people get mixed in with God, they have a tendency to muddy the waters and determine things are more important than what God has set forth.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then they have a way of convoluting the facts in order to say, oh, this is actually a biblical imperative.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I and I think I think that's something that draws us all to our denomination, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the fact that we have this unity above all, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, hey, here's a handful of things.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And these are the these are the the the the go no go things, right?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: These are the deal breakers.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't agree with this, great.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, maybe, maybe this ain't your place.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Other than that, you're good to go.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of how I have it.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, whenever Kyle does preaching on the butthurt series, one of the things that he usually falls back on to kind of explain what are some of the things that people do get butthurt about, he said, there are three ways to look at the things that happen in a church.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: There are things that are convictions, there are things that are traditions, and there are things that are preferences.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever it's a conviction, that is something I'm willing to die on this hill.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am absolutely gonna say that this is the way that it should be, that you know, you have to confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, like those types of things are the ones where he would look at and say, that's those are convictions.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the ones that are, those are the ones written in blood.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not gonna, you know, waver or you know, anything like that on those.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Traditions are the ones where this is what my church has done for so long that this is just how I believe worship should take place.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I believe certain things should happen.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I believe because this is what I've done for the last five, ten, twenty, twenty-five, thirty-five, fifty years, that this is what it should be.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And when you change one of those things, it's hard for me to accept, it's hard for me to adapt to.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last one is preferences, where, well, this is really what I prefer.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is really what I enjoy, this is really what I like.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Two weeks ago, when I had preached at Jackson, I had talked about how there was one time I had had a conversation with a senior pastor at a church.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And he asked me, he's like, So what do you think of the worship music here?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, I I really like it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoy it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Why do you ask?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I was just curious what your thoughts were on it.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I said, but why?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Well, I just was curious because I kind of hate it and I have for a very long time.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you hate the worship music at your church?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was relatively new to ministry.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that doesn't make sense to me.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you continue to do this?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I don't like it because it's not what I know, it's not what I grew up with, it's not what I prefer.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I said, then why don't you have that conversation?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why would that not be a part of it?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he looked at me square in the eye and he said, Because it's not about me.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about my preference, it's not about what I like or what I want.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: He said, it's about people like you and your age group and your demographic and the ones that are being led to Christ, because this is what we're doing here.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: He said, if I were ever to turn it around and have it be about me, I would be wrong.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: He said, because it's not for me.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: He said, church isn't meant to be for me, it's meant to be for the people that currently don't have a relationship with God, getting them in, getting them connected, showing them Jesus, and then once they've had that encounter, then equipping them to go out and bring others in to do the exact same thing.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: He said, if changing the music to something I would like would hinder God moving and hinder the growth of the church, I can't do it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I can't be a part of that because I would not be allowing God to move.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: When you hear that, what are the things that are currently some of your traditions or your likes or your preferences that you recognize one day that thing is gonna be going away.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: One day that thing is gonna be gone.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's a shelf life on it, and you know that it's coming.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: What's it gonna be like for you to kind of be holding on to those things in ministry loosely with that very light grip, knowing that there's a day you're gonna have to let it go and kind of release it?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Mark, your music guy.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I knew you were gonna be coming first.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: I already had something that I experienced that way, and it was introducing tracks to our worship.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: Because, like, sometimes it gets frustrating because you can just get buried, and then nobody gets to hear your instrument.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: And there's been multiple times where I had to kind of process through and pray through and be like, this isn't about you, Mark.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: This is about glorifying God who cares if they can hear your piano.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because like in my head, I'd be like, I practiced this, I spent this time on this, and now I'm getting muted, and I know nobody can hear me because as I'm playing, I'm I I would get to the point where I was like slamming on the keys, just random notes, and nobody could tell.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, I was like, mmm, like this is but I had to humble myself, and I was like, no, the tracks help enhance it.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: And truthfully, sometimes it was a mistake.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: They were like, Oh, we're so sorry.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't we didn't like we were we meant to pull that down and pull you up, our bad.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Oh, okay, sorry.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: I thought I was just getting like it's like I was getting offense taken to me because I was like, what's the deal with this?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: Why can't we just have our musicians play?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I had to get to the point where I was like, no, this isn't about us, this isn't about me.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: This is about me using what I have in supplement with whatever else is being used to glorify God and help everybody praise Jesus.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so the tracks help that because it sometimes it feels empty when you have a guitar and a drum set.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was one I've already had to navigate and process through.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I can't think of anything I'm still bracing for.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: I hope I I look forward to the day where like eat like regular EDMs going on normally, but maybe maybe that'll never happen.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm sure Kyle and I are in that boat where we would love EDM services weekly.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, but can't get them all.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: You just gotta praise God with what you got.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: That is very true.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I always kind of brace myself for change, and working in youth ministry, I kind of I understand that a little bit more because like we have students who like, you know, they don't have a church they go into on Sunday mornings, or they've never been to church, or they went to this church when they were young and they haven't been to one since, or you know, they have a church they go to on Sunday mornings, but they don't have a youth group, so they come here instead.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we kind of have a combination combination of all these different traditions in these students.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of like with change coming, it's kind of like I have to recognize that like we're gonna have to change stuff as we're hitting these youth, because like they're very they're on social media, so you have to follow the trends and you have to stay on that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like the things we do are going to change over time.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I really enjoy what we do now.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I also know youth groups have been done similar ways for years now, and it's like it's eventually getting to the point where we're gonna have to mix things up, we're gonna have to change things and stuff's just gonna stop working, and I have to be okay with that coming, and we're gonna have to do some different things.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: But right now, I think where we're at's good because we have all these different traditions, like we can't do one thing, like we can't we can't stick to one tradition, or you shut out all these other students, and it's like so things are gonna change and they change a lot faster, I think, even sometimes in youth ministry.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's interesting, like listening to this and thinking about this and how it applies to me, because I I think for me it exists in more of like an internal sort of space than like I'm not getting bent out of shape about chairs or pews.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm more so looking at like in me in ministry, it's a sense of yo, Kyle going, oh, like me and Matt were talking about this earlier, like Kyle going, like, oh, you need to you need to figure out how to do this admin stuff.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a part of me that says, nope, nope, not gonna do that.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in reality, I know there are aspects of of pastoring that are going to require me to do these things.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's where the change that that I fight.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's an internal an internal dialogue of going, no, we don't like that.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to do that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: That does not make us comfortable, that is hard, and we don't want to do that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and recognizing the fact that yeah, that's okay, because God doesn't really care what I want.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, He just wants me to go do what He gives me to do.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I I don't know.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of a different take on it, but that's that's kind of what resonated with me.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sometimes it's the uncomfortable stuff that is the best stuff for you.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes the deserts you have to wander through are the ones that God planned it for you to go through so that you could learn from.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: It it all
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm trying to train myself to understand everything's a learning opportunity, especially when you fail.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: That it's not an existential thing.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's a thing to overcome.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: You can let it hold you down or you can let it build you up.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think about this might sound weird.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think about it like rocks falling out of the sky.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is like as things happen, whether it's your fault, whether it's somebody else's fault, they're falling down.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: And if they land on you, it hurts.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it'll keep you.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: And you can go, oh, this hurts, oh, this hurts.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: But eventually you got to figure out either asking for help or move it yourself so that it's not holding you down anymore.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: So like when those things happen, when those circumstances come up, sometimes I let it land on me.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then I just sit there and go, ouch.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then people in my life are like, hey, like, you can do something about this.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know that, right?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta do something about that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: So like I'm trying to practice that too and make that an intentional process where like I don't want to just like being comfortable is not good for you.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: Being comfortable is not beneficial for you.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: It does not push you forward.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: It feels good, but there's a lot of things that feel good that aren't good.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: And being comfortable sometimes can become an addiction uh for us, for us to be thriving and striving for all the time.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and I think a lot of it's the progression of ministry.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I'm gr I'm a new guy to this, so I'm you know, I I kind of see it as as like I I I don't I don't really know what I don't know, but I I can look at it and and really kind of notice that ministry, if you're doing it right, it's always changing.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you're doing it right, it's growing it, it it's it's 20 20 feet ahead of you, and you're trying to chase it.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's kind of how I feel.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like ministry for me is like I'm I'm always one step behind, but I'm trying to catch up, you know.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's why we're okay with being mutts.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're we we will do what we need to do to make the gospel spread, and we're not gonna get too caught up in the style of music.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe classical hymns is gonna become a whole resurgence thing, and that's all people are gonna be craving and wanting.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think as a church, we would be like, okay, if this is the need that fills it for these people and brings people to Christ, well, we'll do it.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: We will we will follow wherever it leads because as long as you don't don't forsake the gospel, never forsake the gospel, but be willing to change the delivery method.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like at one point it was carrier pigeon, at one point it was smoke signals, now it's now it that stuff changes over time, but the information in it stays the same.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, with the Hayes machines in churches right now, like we can go back.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you ain't hazing, you ain't praising.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: So But I mean, yeah, that's the one thing that is consistent throughout all of ministry is change is going to happen.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's always going to be that way, and there are things that will change for the better, and we need to kind of be looking at what those things are going to look like.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the challenge for you guys this week would probably be along the lines of what are the things that you're holding on to with too tight of a grasp?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: What are the things that you should be letting go of just a little bit in preparation for the fact that God might take it and want to be doing something else with it instead?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: So be in prayer about that this week.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: We look forward to having you on the next episode of the HODL cast, and we look forward to talking to you then.