Latest / Chirping Zebras / JON LOUNSBURY | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #124

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JON LOUNSBURY | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #124 · Chirping Zebras

• Mark: Welcome everyone to Chirping Zebras, Mark Riley, virtually alongside Gino Bender Jr. And before we get into another great episode, want to thank our sponsor, the referees, Chris. You one-stop shop for all your refereeing needs from scheduling and development to payment. They do it all. Also want to give a shout out to AOA Studios and remind you to follow us on the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course. Geno: The TikTok. Mark: Thank you, Gino. And check us out at chirpingzeebras dot com. and you can get all your chirping zebras merch and latest episodes and news and whatnot. before we get into it, I was able to go down to Hilton Head with Tony V, our last guest, Geno: Mm. Mark: and do some chirping at the low cash golf bash. If you're a country fan, I'm sure you have heard some low cash fan on low cash songs. And I gotta give a shout out to to Gary at at Noggin Boss. Geno: Look at that thing. Mark: Yeah, it's huge. massive hat. and Geno: Wow. Mark: they're pretty interesting. The Noggin boss. he made for all the sponsors, and he made us a couple and pretty funny, pretty cool. Geno: Wear that and you next pr the next time you go to the garden. Mark: right? I'll tell you, you know what? He he was on Shark Tank. They went on Shark Tank. And and that's kind of where everything kind of took off. And pretty good, pretty good. I caught get it's Gabe. sorry, Gabe Cooper hooked us up with the Noggin Boss hats, and Geno: Thanks, Kip. Mark: it was it was a really cool, cool event. So check out Nog and Boss for sure. And also wanna we put out a reel recently with Ray LeBlanc, the director of Mass Adaptive Hockey. They have an event Geno: Yes. Mark: coming up this Saturday, September twenty-sixth. Geno: Twenty six. Mark: Yep, from twelve twelve fifty to two PM at in Marlborough at the New England Sports Center. And it's what they call a showcase series. And they're they're doing this, Geno: Yes. The sponsored by the EHF, yep. Mark: yes, they're doing this you know, showcasing the different disciplines of adaptive hockey and this Saturday is deaf hockey. They have the new team, the Boston Defenders, and they're gonna Geno: I mean Mark: have a little intersquad s scrimmage in the in the middle of a regular tournament so that people can see. Geno: And I think Dylan I I got a text with with Ray, I gotta find out if asking Dylan to play in that game or not. So but so she has a Mark: Yes, yes, he had mentioned that. Geno: yeah, she has a game, but she split, so I'm gonna see if we can split some time and then zip up there. So yeah, that'll be fun to be a part of that. She played last year in the at level, yeah. She loved it. It was awesome. Yeah. Mark: Cool. Yeah, so have you? Yeah, that's right. When we had the episode with with all the different disciplines, adaptive hockey day. Geno: Yep, and it's pretty cool how they have that on their site too, the the episode up there. I'm like, wow, like like you just you don't you don't really like you you go and just check the site out and say what's going on with with you know, the events and things of that nature and you're like, Whoa, there we are. Mark: Yeah. Well, we had Ray on and then we went to level. And then we Geno: Yeah, we had a whole we had all this all the disciplines on, yeah. Mark: had all the discipline and the you know, people here adaptive hockey, you know, you think sled hockey or you think there's just, you know, there's all different disciplines and and it's pretty cool that it gives the ability for a lot of different people to have access to hockey, you know, and and be able to play the sport that, you know, we l know and love and played and You know, sometimes we take things for granted, and so Geno: Yeah, I talked to Ray yesterday and some of those kids they actually the especially the the death ones, right? They they they play on actual teams, right? They're they're on ESF teams and things of that nature. So it's pretty pretty cool and special. Well. Mark: Actually, worked with Kevin Lord from San Diego Geno: Yeah. Mark: back in the day. And unfortunately, he's since passed, but he was hard of hearing. He was deaf and he was a linesman and he was awesome. did a great job. So but Ray does a great job with adaptive hockey. So this Saturday, the twenty sixth, go check it out if you want to get more information and and you can go to Mass Hockey and and Mass Adaptive Hockey and Really cool, really cool programs they have. Geno: Yes. Mark: today's guest. We were treated with John Loungebury. and he's with Eleven Hockey. That's his his company. And they do a lot of one on one coaching. And he works with you know, NHL players all the way down. coaches for the Spitfires with his daughter's team, just at Geno: Yeah, his daughter's team his daughter's great guy. I mean, awesome dude. And his daughter's team plays my daughter's team. So yeah. Spitfire than the Terriers. We played them Mark: Yes. So there's some bragging rights. Geno: Sunday, actually, yeah. Mark: I believe you won, right? Geno: Yes, we did. I'm not gonna rub it in, but no. yeah, it's good good great program, the Spitfires they have over there and you know, it's good competition. They got some good goaltending, so it's fun. Mark: Yeah, no, John's a just an all around great guy and and it and a typical hockey guy in the sense that he's in it for the right reasons, he's got the right attitude, and he works Geno: Right. Mark: with some of the most elite players you know, in the world. Geno: And and you say that, right? He has the right attitude. And you know how many people in the hockey business just like, you know, gotta say their two cents about the shit he's trying to the shit he's doing and and just bark at it. And they say if like people aren't talking about and you're not doing something right. So like he's he's he puts the time and effort in as you're gonna hear on the on the podcast. I mean he works his ass off. and he's very knowledgeable. I mean he's a great hockey guy. And even before he started doing this, I remember when he coached Walpole and you just, you know, and you you just talking to him off the ice and y you see him around the rinks now when he's coaching his daughter and it's like it's a it brings a great perspective from a coach's point of view and from a hockey point of view really. Mark: Yeah. No, we well, he brought up a funny exchange we had when I was refereing one of his games in Walpole. So I think you're gonna enjoy this one. Yeah, yeah, you did. Geno: Yeah, that's right. And I actually fought Mark: You had a scrap with him back in the day. So great stuff. So I think you're really gonna enjoy this one. and and learn a lot and get a great perspective on this sport, youth hockey, what's going on. and also hear some cool stuff about working with NHL players. So Without further ado, John Loungebury. Geno: Yeah. Mark: John, welcome to the Zebras. So happy to have you here, man. Jon Lounsbury: Happy to be a part of it. Big fan. Long time listener. Well, you guys have been on for a few Geno: Welcome. Jon Lounsbury: months. Just Mark: we've been I thought you were serious there for a second. Geno: Mark Mark takes his real serious. That was pretty good. Well done. Well done. Mark: Yeah. I I know the exact date we started. No, we well we we ran into each other at the Curry College golf tournament and Geno: yeah. Mark: that was that was a good time for sure. Jon Lounsbury: Great time. I think I was like minus eighteen or something. I was pretty good that day. Mark: Yeah, yeah. Geno: Nice. Mark: Fuck you. I was like, we weren't, Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Mark: we weren't well, we I coach I I mean I golfed with coach Roundy. Geno: Okay. Jon Lounsbury: He's a stick. Mark: but but he can play. but my the my driver, the cart driver was none other than former guest Billy Stewart, Coach Stu. So Geno: all right. Mark: I got left a few times by him. Not not just at Curry when he recruited me and then left for UMass Boston. It was kind of similar. But that Geno: Funny. Mark: was that was a good time. You you were sharing a story about you and Gino back in the day. I gotta hear this. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, I said the first my first ever like altercation in hockey was we Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: they had a pro and league where we were in college and it was kind of like the first Geno: Yep. Jon Lounsbury: time we skated in the summertime. And we were Geno: Try. Jon Lounsbury: both freshmen. You were at Salvay, maybe a time like that. And and and Mr. Fontes Geno: I was, yeah, I was at Salve, yep. We had a team, yeah. Jon Lounsbury: was our coach and we it just like showed up and played, right? But like guys didn't Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: wear guys didn't wear face masks. Like it wasn't like a you know, it was a college you had to play college hockey to be in it, but like and then I I don't know if I we got in the stick swinging match or whatever, but like we ended up Scrapping in the corner. I Geno: Getting into scrap. Jon Lounsbury: think you got the bad you called me some like Rich Winthrop kid or something like that. I got I got offended. Geno: I had a mouth on me, man, and I I and I like to use my stick. Jon Lounsbury: We yeah. We we both got Geno: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: a j I remember I remember Andy Boscheto being there yelling at both of us, being like, What are you doing? Like what Geno: yeah, Indy yep. he's the best f former coach. Mark: I remember the ProM back in the day. Jon Lounsbury: It was fantastic. It su my ride sucked down, but other than that, it was awesome. Geno: Yeah, it was like Sunday nights. It was awesome. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. Nah. Those those legs were fun. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. So first time we got thrown out of the game. Maybe Mark: Yeah, the kid the Jon Lounsbury: not my first, but definitely like a part of my remembrance. Geno: yeah. Well, I was thrown out of punny. Mark: And and should have been thrown out of plenty more. Geno: Like my my coach at Salva used to get pissed off at me because like, you know, I would stick people in front of the net just like like I'm not like really like slashing or hurting anybody. I'm just being like irritating, right? And whatnot and causing ruckus. And my coach would be like, Well, they there should have been three or four penalties called on you. And now we're not getting power plays because they're letting shit go on you. Jon Lounsbury: You you know, there was like there was a term when we were we were younger, it would like the for the the kids that played prep school, it was like they call it the prep school hack. Cause we Geno: Mm. Mm. Jon Lounsbury: would just we would just skate around and just two hand each other. Not like not like what you're seeing today, but like we would just Geno: No. Jon Lounsbury: like we would just get at like you played aggressively, but you played you learned it from street hockey, right? And you just like I don't know, that's just kind of Geno: Right. Like Jon Lounsbury: and we all had big mouths, we we all couldn't shut up and the first time you get in front of a Western Canadian boy, your mouth got shut up real fast. Geno: one hundred percent. Yep. I've got my head punched in. yeah. Mark: Wait. Geno: No, but it's like the difference like nowadays, like these kids are going out and like you see the stick swings, right? Like a little a little slash on the top of your foot hurts just as worse. Like you can get a point across, right? Like and you're not really, you know, killing the kid. You're just going, hey, boom, like you enjoy that bruise today, right? Like I'm not trying to go out and and, you know, murder these kids. Like the w the w some of these hits I'm seeing, like, we're not separating the we're not even going for the puck. Like you just see someone along the boards and it's like I'm gonna take liberties and absolutely Boom, and then just going up and rifling kids. And like that's Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Geno: not a body check. Like that's trying to hurt somebody, you know? Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. And there's no like there's no repercussion from the programs, right? And there's no like it's just it's tough. Tough to watch. Geno: It that is. Mark: I think one one big difference from when we played, and of course I played a little little earlier than you two, but you know, if someone poked our goalie, we punched him in the face. We didn't cross check him in the face. I mean, that happened, don't get me wrong, Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Mark: but ninety, you know, ninety-five percent of the time, you punch the kid in the face. You didn't swing your stick at him. And now everyone's just, you know, doing the old cross check soup, you know, tomaha chop and I i you know, where did the punch in the face go? That's what I'm asking, you know? Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, you're at you're at a Star Wars you're at a Star Wars convention now. Everyone's just swinging their lightsabers around like it's nothing. It's like it's crazy, it's crazy to watch. And it there's you can but what I hate is the the finger pointing game, like it's the it's the ref's fault, it's the coach's fault. It's a w like, listen. One, it it all comes it comes down to one thing. It's like one, the what what are the kids being told in the car rides, but the same time, like you can't tolerate it as a coach. Like you can't So there's there's guys behind the bench encouraging that shit. And then there's other guys that are Geno: Mm-hmm. Jon Lounsbury: like, hey, listen, if you're gonna play that way, you're you're out. And there's gotta be some integrity in the game. And I think there's also like the kids aren't into a spot. Like we grew up, we I mean Brian Boyle, we had to play against, and Brian was a mean dude. You know, I mean he would never do anything dirty, but like I we had to play him and stuff, and like he'd break your stick in half and you wouldn't go get that puck away from him. Again, that was like, but you also like. There was I played I played prep school hockey with a kid named Drew Bucktooth. And Drew was he's a Syracuse kid. He played lacrosse at Syracuse. He was an all American there, but he played in Oshawa as a 16 year old in the OHL. And talented hockey player, but we were playing at Winchenden. And we always knew Drew was a tough kid because he f he fought a little bit in the O, like no problem. And us being Massachusetts kids, being like, whatever. And like a kid from Winchenden. kinda like swung at him a little bit and he gave him he's like, you don't want to do this. And I saw what Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: like a real that was the first time I saw like on the ice, like a r a guy knowing what he's doing and like he put his teeth like right in the back of his head. And I was just like, my goodness. You know, and that's like and it's that's the unfortunate thing about this sport. It's like it's the same thing while you can't go out and like run your mouth in the street anymore like you did with kids because someone's got a gun. Geno: Rice. Good point. Jon Lounsbury: Right. It's not like it's not a fist fight anymore. So that's like what you run into now. You got a kid that's gonna swing a stick, or you got a kid that's just tough and he's gonna just punch your lights out, right? So it's like, I don't know. I just think there's not a lot of room for it in the sport anymore. I think when you're watching it from the professional level, it they're they're paid professionals, period. Period. There's no other way to look at it, right? You're getting paid to either protect your teammates or play the game hard or do whatever. Like we're we've professionalized youth sports to a point of like this getting out of control. Like the kids aren't enjoying the game. The parents, I think the emotions from the parents are br are like bringing the emotions up in the kids. Like, you know, it's like why are parents Geno: One hundred percent. John, I mean like we would I Jon Lounsbury: saying, like, we hate, we hate playing the Terries, we hate the Terriers? Like, why do we hate another team at like as parents? Like the kids, like, yes, as that's part of the competitive nature. Like, we hate going to Southie to play in that rank, you know, as Winthrop kids, because it never ends well. We always lost, Geno: Right. No. Jon Lounsbury: like, whatever. Whatever it was, but like there was a there was a player to player thing. Now it's like the parents going in there, you know, talking it up like to the kids and now they're going and fired up. It's just, you know. Geno: No, what you you're one you're one hundred percent on the money with the rhetoric. Like you don't know what's going on like at home or whatever, the car ride, this and that. Like like like I mean I remember last season just like like the anxiety of just getting your kids to and from the game, right? Like my daughter was playing in Weymouth and then she had a terrier game and you're running here, running there. Right. And then their their heart rates all all all worked up. And, you know, the energy level and like what's going on in their in their minds. And then they go out there and they're, you know, they're just reacting to things. And like hockey's a violent sport and you got a weapon in your hands, right? Like and then and sometimes you just react and you have a bad moment, right? And it's It is. It's the environment that that we're in. And I think these kids nowadays are just doing too much too. And the parents are doing too much. So they're they're in the ranks all day. It's like you hear these k parents, it's a it's like a it's like a break and write. we had three games today. this is our fourth game today. It's like, what the fuck is that do for your s your daughter or your son? Like it's burnout. Like by the fourth game, they're trash. Jon Lounsbury: Right. Yep. That's when the injuries Mark: I think Jon Lounsbury: pile up and all that stuff. Mark: There's two things I'd love to get both your thoughts on, because it just hit me. When we were kids, we and you mentioned it, John, ear earlier. We're playing street hockey. We're down the park. We're out and we're having issues with other kids and we're solving them without any parents around, without anything around, right? Now kids aren't doing that. They're on the computers, they're on the tablets, they're on the phones, and that interaction, that problem solving, that Hey, if I do something stupid, I might get punched in the face. That's gone. And that's bleeding into not only society, but especially youth sports. You know, and and anyone can be tough with one of these in their hands, right? And, Jon Lounsbury: Keyboard wires. Mark: you know, yeah. And back in the day, it we didn't have those. And if we said something or did something that we should have been punched for, we did. there's that, and then also the you brought up the coaching too. And I think From the coach's standpoint, there's nothing as a referee that's more refreshing. And I had it last weekend. The team was on a power play, the kid cut across the blue line, took one of the defenders out. Simple interference call. I call it, and the kid's bitch and go into the box, and the coach says, Shut your mouth. That's a penalty all day. Where is that? More coaches, you know, need to do that, you know, need to hold the kid accountable. Geno: You see that more and more now. Mark: I I I remember coaching it there. And a kid hit a kid from behind and and the ref didn't see it. And he didn't get the penalty and he didn't play the rest of the game. Cause I said that's bullshit. We don't we don't play that way. You know? So from the from society standpoint, the kids and then the coaches, like w what's your thoughts on that? Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. I mean I think it's I think the the sports the sport itself, I'm not gonna get into other sports, is at like the it's at a boiling point where it's like I think it's we're it's about to to get into like World War Three, right? And it's about to kinda push it that far, but I I Geno: Feels it. Jon Lounsbury: don't think anyone is trained well enough to handle situations, right? And and I think it's a lot of it stems from the coaching and the kids and all that stuff. And it all starts like you want your kids to play hard. You want your kids to be competitive, but at the same time, like what what I what is it that crosses the line? Right. Like and I coach I coach the girls' hockey and I'm coaching the 19U team and the stuff they say to each other, like Geno: Well I can only imagine. Jon Lounsbury: girl to girl and just like about weight and all that stuff. I'm like, look, we don't do that. Like we don't and I try to like grab Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: the girls. I hear from other girls, I'm like, sorry if I hurt your feelings, but like we're not gonna bark back and talk about like body type, we're not gonna talk about like ethnic, Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: whatever it is. Like So I think there's like it has to come from the coaches, and none of us are perfect because we get emotionally involved in the game. Right. Geno: Big time. Jon Lounsbury: Just like you said growing up, we got emotionally involved in playing backyard football and sports and all that stuff. And then it took you to get, you know, whacked or punched by a buddy and all that stuff to like zip your lip. Like that's how you learned it. And again, now it's the you're the kids' emotions are high going into a game. We see a call we don't like, our emotions are high going into a ref. Like You know, so it's like I don't think anyone knows how to handle the situation properly. And it just keeps it keeps spiraling because what no one understands, it's like when the parents get upset or fired up in the car about the kid, the kid comes in fired up. Then the call doesn't happen that you want or didn't want. So now your coach is fired up. So now the the energy in the building's through the roof and the kids are feeding off mom and dad what they said in the car, and then me being pissed behind the bench because I didn't like what you just called for me. So it's like I have to sometimes take a big step back and be like, How is me yelling at you? As officials, going to affect my entire bench. You know, it's not, it isn't, it's not the NHL. Like I they can, they, you know, they the guys respect a coach that stands up for them. And those guys are paid NHL referees that can take, they know how much they can take and they know when when to like zip it. And I think there's like, why am I, and I've and I we all have done it, like, why am I yelling at an 18-year-old kid? Like, what you know I mean, or Like why can't it just I don't know, it's it's really it's a really, really hard thing to say, but I think it's like we're we're putting too much emphasis on winning hockey games and winning games. So the car rides are intense, the the coaching is intense because for experience means wins. That that's what it's all coming down to. And it's stupid. Geno: I mean, I I'll tell ya, we're like I mean, the Terriers this year, my daughter's playing for the Terriers, as you know, and we have a lot of alternates on the team and we're stressing, hey, if you're playing soccer, go play soccer, right? Go Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Geno: go do your soccer practice. Go if you're like we have a lot of club soccer girls on the team and go go play soccer, right? And then come to us in December when when, you know, when hockey season really should be starting. And there's no no such thing as two sport athletes anymore and like And and putting that pressure on like the parents and the families. It's like, you have to come to one practice a week or you're not playing. Like what what are we doing for that kid? What like what's the flexibility, right? Like have a have a standard and you know, have a backup plan, right? And have a plan for for everybody, because everybody's, you know, everybody's different. But, you know, I I think that's a great way to do it. And you just see it in the parents and the in the in the players. There's no it's not that stress like if I don't make it and I'm forced to be here. Now they're pissed off they're there anyway because they're missing they're they want to be someplace else, right? So I I think there should be more of that. w with we're talking, it's year round sport. Baseball, year round sport, soccer, year round sport. It's ridiculous. Mark: Become big business. That's the thing, right? It there's a lot of money involved in every sport, especially hockey. I mean, hockey's always been expensive. And now not only do you have to buy all the equipment and the sticks, now you're paying, you know, some some people are paying $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 to play youth hockey, you know, between all the tournaments and everything. And and people want to return on their investment. And that makes people crazy. Jon Lounsbury: But what's the what's the return and here's the other thing, like what's the return on investment? Like it's not when when someone got a full scholarship to school twenty years ago, it was a full scholarship to school. You're Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: just paying you're just paying to go to BU now. Geno: Right. Right. Jon Lounsbury: You know what I mean? You might still get your Mark: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: full scholarship by the time it's all said and done, like you've paid for it. Right. And it and it's like that it's any sport. Like people, there's people that are affluent enough to be able to afford it, have a great experience with those kids. There's people that aren't. And I think there should be more programs out there for people that can't afford it. Right. And I think that's that's a a whole different conversation. But listen, it's everything's a business, but at the same time, it's like we all mature. at different ages, times, whatever it may be. And and Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: it's just like let let it happen. Let it happen. Like it's you know, it it's crazy. Geno: And and you know something like like I mean you're you're very successful in this business, right? And and hockey's very unique, right? And you just said what's your what's your return on in investment, right? for my daughter, I'm looking at her, she's a goalie. how many goalies are gonna go play D one and actually play, right? Like I I can see her refereeing D one one day. I don't necessarily see her playing D one one day, right? But There's all sorts of different avenues you can take in in hockey. You can be a coach. You can be like who knows? She'll probably like I think she might even be in the going towards the coaching aspect of it, right? So like she keeps saying, I want to be a goalie coach, right? Someday. you could be a trainer, you could be an athletic directing, you can be all sorts of other things, right? You're a personal you're a personal coach, right? Like you're dealing with NHL NHL players on a daily basis, right? Like you got you you You had this, you know, great career playing and and you know, in coaching, and this brought you to some place you probably never even thought of, right? and and where you are in life and success, right? that's what that's what people are are losing, I think, in hockey. All the different types of jobs and and avenues you can take. Like be a GM of a team. Be, you know, you might you might like artsy stuff. Be the be the video replay guy, right? And in clipping and all that kind of stuff. Find your niche. Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, and in and all the sports. And it's just like you I don't know, I think people have to equate that you need like a you know, an NHL coaching career to be good or playing career to be good at what you do. And you kinda like you you just have to earn the trust in the players that you're around when you get to this stage. But the same with my kids. Like I my daughter's gonna be fourteen next month or two in November, and this is the first summer I've ever skated with her. So she's been skating since she was three. So I've gone ten years of like Either not letting her skate the summer or like you're you're not gonna skate with dad. And I and I put her in a group of like older girls. That was Geno: Mm-hmm. Jon Lounsbury: that's the way it went. That she's my kid, it is what it is. But like I I don't like this is it's she's she wants to invest in herself and get better at the sport. I don't care if she plays college hockey, but she wants to like push it as far as it goes. So like, but I'm not I'll encourage it and I'll help you. But my Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: ten year old, I no, she hasn't done a thing in the summer. When she wants Geno: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: to, she'll tell me. My niece Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: plays at U my niece plays at UNH and she's she plays an absurd amount of hot, like thirty minutes a night. It's it's unbelievable. Good for her. First time I skated with her, she was almost seventeen. And, you know, Michelle had asked me, like, well, why did it take you so long to skate with Calista? I'm like, Well, she asked. You know, like she had when she was sixteen and a half. She's like, hey, can skate? Sure. Other than that, Geno: Right. Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: I'm Uncle John. Like, I'm not help. You know what I mean? Like you've you've built and that's the other thing. It's like you've these these players from three years old on, like, they've built their career. Like when I work with an NHL player, I just want to help them understand the game a little bit differently, see it differently from what they're doing, and and give give an opportunity to make a few more plays and get get two percent better. They've gotten themselves there. I'm not there's no credit, like that's the other thing. Everyone's like, You're taking credit for Guys are already in the league. No, no, no. I'm happy for their accomplishments. That's why it's like, you know, that's what I'm excited about. It's like they're Geno: Right. Supporting. Jon Lounsbury: if they produce ten more points a year, that's an extra million dollars. You know, that's kind of like so it's just like you you're yeah, you're excited for them. And that's like the, Geno: Right. Good for them. Right. Jon Lounsbury: you know, but we don't get excited like we don't get excited for our kids, right? It's more stressful. It's like we Geno: Right. Right. Jon Lounsbury: have to win, you have to play well today. Like I need a goal and assist, like someone's coming to watch you play. Like Geno: That's pressure, right? That they don't need. Just go out Jon Lounsbury: Just Geno: and have fun. Like look at Peyton Tolley, right? Like that fucking dude has a smile on his face every time and no matter what the situation is, he's that guy's having fun, but he's he's locked in, right? And and his team's feeding off it. Like that energy is like you you know, s second to none, really. When you and that that brings out the best in a team and a player. And I Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Geno: I love that. Like it's unbelievable. And hockey needs more more Peyton Tolies in the world. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. It it also like I what I what I do for a living is is hard because I you learn Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: in a world that like I've learned from I learned from the best in the world to do what I do. Like the the guy I worked with was there's no one better at what he does. He's the best player in the world and I've learned a lot. And what I've learned the most about is understanding the game better in terms of like where contact is coming from. Right? Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: We we play it we play a sport where it's the most physical sport in the world on You know, it's on skates, right? So that's why I say it's the most physical sport, like yes, football and other stuff. But like you can get knocked off your skates in a second and go on the boards awkwardly. So I I have learned to teach and get a r like teach guys how to play in and around contact, where your contact points are, how to absorb a hit versus trying to like play force against it. Like there's and I just talked about this right before we came on. There's a clip that a woman put on the the hockey bull what the Facebook thing Geno: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: and her son came across the middle of the ice. And someone came this way. And after he shot the puck, he he got clipped. Dangerous hit, dangerous play, but he put himself in such a vulnerable position. It's like I would never teach a guy in that particular way to shoot a puck that way. Now, it's a great shot if he's on the other side of the ice and he's pulling it away. Like it's kind of like that Bernard release, right? And it's like he Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: pulls it in and shoots it. Yes, there is absolutely a time and a place for it, but he took it through the middle of the ice, not being aware of. this side and he got croaked. Right. But he but Geno: Nathan Horton, yeah. Jon Lounsbury: unfortunately he learned it somewhere. And I think all these guys do, and I'm not saying it's like I'm I'm good, I'm good at what I do. I'm I'm proud to say that, but it's like I'm not the like stopgap. I don't, you know what I mean? It's like you don't have to go work with me, but you have to, when you're training a kid, you have to like say, hey, you know, when you're when you're doing something like this, here are your surroundings. Like you can't take this buck to the middle of the ice because like Geno: You're gonna get killed. Jon Lounsbury: Zidoroff Zadorov's right there. You know what I mean? Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: So like So Geno: Yeah. Mark: But John, I gotta you bring up a great point, and we've asked people before, we've talked about it ourselves. When do you think checking should be introduced to a kid in hockey? you know, everyone has their belief on this, everyone has their opinion. and you know, when do you think we should start teaching that? And well. Jon Lounsbury: I think I think body you finish your question 'cause I'm an idiot. Mark: No, no, no. I have a I'm gonna let you answer that and then I have a second question. Geno: No. He likes to talk. Mark: I got a second question, but I want you to answer that one first. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. I personal opinion, I think body contact should come in at mites. Body contact. Yeah. Nope no no contact. Geno: Yes. Don't call it checking. Don't call it checking. Call it contact. One hundred percent. Jon Lounsbury: B body contact should come in mites. And I think as kids hit middle school, you get into checking. Right. And it's like this is like kids because young kids, mites are resilient. Right? So you can't and it and it again, we talked about puberty. Everyone hits it differently. I was a five foot freshman. I had to learn to play around the big guys. So I had to learn ways to take hits and do all that stuff. So but what's happening now is that the five foot freshman is going against the six foot senior, and we're just learning checking right now. Right? So we're Geno: Not good. Jon Lounsbury: getting thrown into a spot of like, and I and I think the checking clinics are they're not. I think the check-in clinics are are what they are. I'm trying to be like politically correct here. I think they are what they are. But it's like, yeah, but it's like, but you you do them twice. Mark: They're not good. They're not good. We don't teach it right. Geno: could be better. Jon Lounsbury: You offer a two-week check-in clinic and you're like, I'm ready to go. I'm ready to like, whoa. Like, so I think in mites, I think it's gotta be encouraged more. you know, and then the body contact chain turns into checking, you know, and then you have to define the and it just I think officials have to define the rules as they The temperature of the game. Geno: So John, nil nail on the head, right? The NCAA just came out with the women's they're doing a whole new women's revamp, right? they did a great job identifying what what body contact looks like. They label the different types of types of contact, like parallel pursuit, right? Angling, front shoulder, I'm out on the back shoulder, and wall pursuit, right? Expect contact, right? You gotta run out of real estate. Expect that contact. I'm not running in and doing this. If there's extension, elevation, forceful in nature, right? Like, you know, launching any of those any of those little things, that's a check. Now they identified it. So so now when we tell a coach, hey, why isn't that a penalty? she cut back to the middle and the defenseman held her ground, and that's not a penalty. It's called the cutback, right? So you your Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Geno: player cut back into her lane, defenseman did nothing wrong but hold her ground, right? So like I was watching Mercy Hearst RPI this weekend. I there's a great clip of it. And I go, that's the cutback. I go, great job not calling it. And before, I said to the referees after the game, I go, that probably would have been called last year just because it it looked like a hit, but it wasn't. And how do you go talk to a coach and say, hey, that's not a body body check? And then like, well, cause it isn't, right? Now we have now now we have a term. she cut back and then and we identify why. The why. We identified Jon Lounsbury: Mm-hmm. Geno: the why. And we can do that from youth hockey on up, I think. And just take what the NCAA's doing in women's hockey and and bring it into the youth hockey game and they're not calling it checking, it's contact. Jon Lounsbury: Love it. Mark: No, well and yeah, I'm I'm a firm believer that you have to teach it when the kids are all about the same size, right? And it you know, and that way when they get to that age where 'cause I was a hundred and thirty five pounds as a freshman in college, you know, you ought to figure out ways of surviving, right? now my second part of that question was I'd I'd love to get your take on because a lot of times I see these kids, they can all dangle. They can all stick handle on a phone booth. They can all rip shots. Geno: Mm-hmm. Mark: They have all this skill, but they don't have hockey IQ. They don't know how to play the game. And I think you could take that a step further, that they don't respect the game. And that's why you have kids swinging sticks and kicking people and doing all this crazy shit. You know, your thoughts on that, because when I coach Mites, I taught a basic four check, a basic breakout, a basic neutral zone. The ADM. Everyone wants to do these small area games and teach skills, which all has its place. What about hockey IQ? Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, I mean there's everything's too structured. At the end of the day, the skill level and the speed of the game is the best it's ever been. And it's it's fun to watch, it's impressive. And but you see like it's you have like we Gino, we see it all the time with our girls, like the the best players in the league get to skate around everyone at 11 years old, right? Because they they're the they're the faster, more talented players and then that it levels off when you get to like 14U. But the skill and speed of the game is is incredible. It's fun to watch, but everything's too structured. Right. And we we always say it. I I hate I don't when I talk to the players and even guys I train, I don't go back to like when I played because it was one, I was a nobody, didn't play in the NHL, but it was like we learned how to like we talk about touch, like laying a puck out for somebody is hard for some people. And we learned it because we played actual street hockey and it's not a joke. Like if I shot the ball too hard, it's in a sewer or it's like four blocks down and the guy who shot it had to go get it. So we're Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: like humping down the street to get the ball. So you learn how to like put it on someone's taper in the area without like sending it too hard, right? So it's like, and then Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: you learn how to like put yourself in spots where where you can score. And I and I think like you're the top five players at every level are always gonna be the top five players. I'll argue that till the day I die. Like you're you're Geno: Yes. Jon Lounsbury: the Will Smith has been Will Smith since he was 10, and he's gonna have a twenty-year NHL career, and the same with Benia, like all those guys, but like their status never really changed. Now guys Can bring their status up to make leagues and do all that stuff, but the work's more. Like some people have an innate ability to play sports. Just like some some people have an innate ability to do math or have school and all that stuff. So the intrinsic part of that is always there. But for kids that don't have it, where the IQ lacks is no one watches the game. When they're on the bench, they don't watch the game. When they're home, they don't watch the game. So it's like, well, who's your favorite? Everyone's favorite player is Connor McDavid. Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: How can it not be? He's the best player in the world. But like, are you just saying that because he's the best player in the world? Or like, I like when people give me obscure players. They're like, I love this guy. Why? Well, because he does this and this and this. And you're like, all right, like fantastic. Mark: I I'd like to hear a little bit more, John, about what you exactly do with the NHLers. Like what what does that look like? 'Cause you know, and talk a little bit about eleven hockey, your your program and and what you do. Jon Lounsbury: great, great question. I d I still don't know what I do for a living. That's the no, Mark: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: so programs a little differently. I I work on a on a on a 12-month calendar with a client. a client is, you know, I have a little social media page. I don't really solicit. I throw some stuff out there here and there, and I always talk about like I love just like client success, so I kind of throw some stuff reposts and all that. I I work with the client a twelve months at a time. I'm a hired to be fired gun. I work with a lot of guys in contract years, guys towards the end of their career trying to extend a little shelf life. in the off season, I'll skate with them no matter where they live. We create little hubs like Trent Frederick's client of mine. I have some guys in St. Louis, so I'll go out there, skate for a few days, come back, give them enough to think about until I come back another time. guys will they love coming to Boston, so guys will come into the city and come here and skate. and then during the season, I I take a look at their video. So as they play each week or each, you know, every other day, I watch their clips and I give them a few clips back on things that we didn't execute on things they could look for a little differently, you know, and just help them identify some of the weaknesses in their game without interfering with anything their coach is telling them to do. I think that's the hardest thing, right? So I I have to be delicate on You know, I don't talk about the systems, I don't talk about, you know, where they should be on the ice, but we talk about habits and, you know, why we didn't handle that puck the right way and and, you know, why we didn't see that guy coming to take that bad hit. Like so it's, you know, all all things to extend and and I my thing with the guy is that you're gonna play eighty-two games in the NHL this year, right? And the first thing is that can we keep you healthy for all eighty two? And the second thing is, you know, if we're if we can make one or two more plays a game. You know, that's a hundred and forty to a hundred and sixty, you know, well, obviously eighty-two to to a hundred and sixty-four more plays a game, right? So a a year, but can you get ten more points out of that? And the way the league's going now, it's I don't even know what to tie, it's a two hundred grand a point for some guys. You know, so it's like you have to you have to be able to execute. So it's fun, it's stressful. I I take the stress when a guy's not performing, you gotta look at it from seventeen different ways. Like is it You know, is it the coaching he's receiving in terms of like minutes? Is he is he not getting enough minutes? Is he not getting good touches? is it me? Is it him? so it's it's kind of all of it. So at some point, I always say you have a shelf life. guys won't won't retain you after the year. Some guys will retain you because it's they enjoy working with you. So it's never a personal thing. I love what I do with guys that that don't retain me. We still have great relationships. It's about people, not about you know, obviously I'm running a business, but it's the people aspect of it. I have a handful of college guys, I have a handful of guys that are in prep in major junior. So I just try my best to elevate their game and and make a little bit better. Mark: So a give an example of something you might work with someone on, just to kind of give someone who's not really you know, understanding those finer points, what would be something that you'd work on? Jon Lounsbury: yeah, and I'll use like I'll use Charlie Coyle for example. and I think he wouldn't mind it because we have a close relationship. But when we first started working together, he's he's a guy that's built a great career for himself, but he always has to like he's a stop and start. He was a stop and start kind of guy, and not like in coach's terms, like you gotta stop on the puck and start again. It's like he would always have to restart his engine to get himself going. And so he's playing eighteen to twenty minutes and he's overworking. what he should be actually be able to do. So I we we've taught him how to I've taught him how cruise a bit and find glide a little bit more where he could, you know, maybe change his speed up to be a little bit more deceptive or maybe learn how to get into a guy where he can bump a guy and get the puck off him. And then we kind of worked on, you know, when you're in control of the puck, where can your eyes go to make another play? So the big thing for Charlie and I to to work together was like I want him feeling like the freedom of movement out there. Right. And and at 35 turning 36 years, 34 years old, like it's, you know, he's got another six years left. So can we play that at a you know at that age? And he's able to do it. And again, it's like if you can unlock something in someone's game that makes them feel a little bit better and able to make them a few more plays, that's it. some guys take a lot of hits. So it's you know, I've learned over time that the a lot of the hits come from mishandling pucks. You know what mean? You misshandle puck the wrong way and someone's coming, it's it's tough to do something with it, right? So it's you guys are taking unwarranted contact. So it's teaching them, you know, if we can move and handle the puck the right way, you you take less contact each year. And it's not big stuff, like yeah, people get blown up, but like you get you get hit in the same shoulder for twenty games, like the 21st game might put you out for a week. You Geno: My pop. Right. Jon Lounsbury: know, so it's like that you we gotta be cognizant of our surroundings and how we're taking all that. So everything's a little different, every player's a little different. you know, so it's it's hard, but it's fun, you know. Geno: So you work with Pat Maroon. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Geno: I reffed him in the minors when he played at in Adirondack, which is probably not the greatest place to to play minor hockey. But like I'll tell you, man, that that kid was very immature. he was very difficult to to deal with. And, you know, it was I know he was going through some tough times and and this and that, but it it was awesome to see his career take a one eighty, right? Like that kid He was a very difficult to deal with in the minors. But to watch him in the pros and the and the pro he became and the Stanley Cups and you know, he was, you know, a fourth line grinder that impacted Stanley Cup champions on how however many cups. And for him to get through that and and grow in in the minors and then have a great career in the National Hockey League was, you know, is r really cool to see. And I seen a lot of guys like that. but like what what was it like working with him? Jon Lounsbury: unbelievable and I'm fortunate enough. I still work with Anthony, his son. Geno: nice. Jon Lounsbury: yeah, and he's in Muskegon. but Geno: Okay. Jon Lounsbury: but Pat when I first met Pat I was in St. Louis, I was with Trent and you know he he came Yeah. So Geno: I ref him when he played North America League there. Jon Lounsbury: he came out he came out for a skate and you know he enjoyed what we did and and we talked about why it would help him and I said well why do you want to do this? Like why are you interested in in like me coming on board and he's like, Well, I want I want three more years. Right? I want to play a few more years, three, four more years, whatever it takes. And I knew he had some back problems and all that stuff. And for me it's like, can I have him move a little bit differently? So He's he's in less pain, freeing up. Like that guy, and I talk about like everyone just thinks about him as like a big, strong, tough, fourth line guy. Like his skill set is unbelievable. Like, and it was like it's special, you know, and it just kinda he did a really good job in his career. Geno: Hm. You can play. Jon Lounsbury: And I got him at the end of it. Like, and it's you know what I always say, like he got himself to the point he was at. I just helped him like make make feel a little bit better making plays and and his work was down low on the corner. So can we make a few more plays out of the corner? And What I was really proud of Pat for doing is that he elevated his game to to play those more years and make a little bit more money. You know what I mean? And that's kinda like the our body Father Time catches up at some point and one of the most genuine one of the most genuine human beings I I've I've been around. Geno: Yeah. good for him. Great career. Jon Lounsbury: So yeah. Geno: He would have looked good in the Bruins uniform. Jesus. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, they they held on to him. No one wanted to pay. Bruce don't want to pay. Sorry, guys. Mark: No, that's a factual statement right there. Every right. Geno: Sniffy. Jon Lounsbury: But Yeah, it's but it's humble you know what it's humbling because it's again we go back to you know everyone kinda has when you're when you're doing anything, when you have a a a good role, everyone wants to poke holes, right? Like it's like, well, Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: he didn't he didn't play in the NHL. Well, I didn't play Division I hockey either. And I had I had a great career, I had great statistics, all that stuff. But like I I just wasn't I wasn't a hockey guy until I was. Like I played three sports, I Ended up being better at hockey than anything else. I made something of it. I got a master's while I played. Like all these little things that like I I wasn't I never was gonna make the NHL. Like even the American Hockey League, when I was over in Portland watch, it's like you get Getzlaff, Perry, Parental, like that's how like where like you you kidding me? You know Geno: Hm. Right. Jon Lounsbury: what I mean? Like you got Hall of Famers there and it's just like, well, it's only the American Hockey League. Like, yeah, there's no chance I'm playing there. So Geno: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: it's like there was there was light there, and then I thought education was for me, so I got into And I worked at Bridget Academy at, you know, and I I loved that opportunity there. and I just the game kept growing on me. and I I found what I was good at. And I didn't I never loved being on the bench. I do it for my kids because I I love the I love all the the young girls that like we play with and the parents and all that. So it keeps me it keeps me going and I just I owe it to them to kind of give back a little bit. But I love the the practices and the element of like, all right, how can I help a kid achieve something? Some whether it's college hockey or something, and that's what kind of why I I do what I do. And now it's I've gotten good at it and it's just like everyone goes back to like, well, he didn't he didn't play in the NHL. Nope. I didn't. But what's fun for me is that if I can get on the ice with a guy and teach him something, like I I played in the SBHL. I played there for a long time. So my joke with the guy is like I'll do something on the ice and they can't pull it off, and I just skate away and go, four-letter league, buddy. Four letters, Geno: Yeah, right. Jon Lounsbury: you know? Geno: That's it. Jon Lounsbury: But it just builds a relationship. So it's like in and you know what, you have to keep up with the game and the trends and how to do stuff, but it's like You you have to believe in yourself. If you if you're good and confident at something and you know we can teach something to someone, like use it. And everyone's Geno: Yeah, I mean Jon Lounsbury: gonna try to knock you down. Just just who cares? Just keep going. Geno: I mean, heck, I mean, there's there's NHL coaches that never never played in the National Hockey League, right? You know, so like what what's the difference? There there really isn't. And you know, you got you got some knowledge to share and and a great point of view and you know, to to help a player out in a you know a Just that that little extra, right? And that that could make a difference between someone playing in the A or the National Hockey League or, you know, getting that scholarship in college hockey or whatever. And like you said earlier, the kid has to want it, right? You gotta you gotta you gotta want it. You can't force it on people. Like that's something that you gotta go out and go out and get. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. And and that's like the you know, there's a again, there's instinct. There's in something that's intrinsic in there that's just like you have the that de cliche that you have that dog in you. You kinda like you you know, you always have to kind of prove yourself to the next person. And I think that's being competitive in life is super healthy. You know, 'cause you're gonna have to be competitive in the in the business world or if you're in sales or if you're d whatever you're doing, you need that. That's what I love about the game, is that it teaches you so much more than just like how to You know, it's a giant fraternity for sorority. You can say it both ways, not because women's hockey's so big, but there's the network's so large that if you if you navigate it the right way and you you get get in with the right people, life life can be life can change for you, you know, and just I I always believe in that no matter what you do, whether you're going to the carpenter's union, whatever it is, like it's just kind of so let the game kind of give you something back that but you have to have that ability to Turn it off and on. Like when you gotta enter the rank and put your gear on and turn it on and and be someone that you aren't, you know what I mean? Like that competitive. And then when you you leave the rank, you gotta learn flush it. You know, and it's a it's it's hard. And it's and I I don't envy the what the position you guys are in. Do you know? And it's Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: how you deal with parents and coaches, you they yelling from the stands. And I remember Mark Ref a game when I was coaching a wall pole and I was like, something happened, and I was like, son of a I'm like, son of a bitch. And I go, I made a comment about the call and he looked at me, goes, that was a one minute penalty. And he skated away. And I was like, fuck. And I like I like I had to think about that. I was like, all right, it wasn't worthy of the call. It was kind of like a hat, you know what I mean? I was like, but it's just well well some Geno: Right, you got it 'cause you're a hockey guy. Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: but but again, that's like, but those interactions are so meaningful. Like I had a guy and he's probably, I don't know, he probably listens to it. He's probably definitely one of your guys, but I had a guy, we played Team Wisconsin at the Naha tournament, and he came over to me and he said, Hey, it was the playoffs. And he said, I've been calling it wrong all weekend. It's it's tag up offsides. I said, Okay, goes, I've been calling automatic. So the 14 year old. I go, that's fine. I said, our girls are they're not used to that. So just like, you know, so game goes on, we're offside, delayed offside, he's calling off. And then blows the whistle right away and sends everyone down the far end, like automatic. Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: And I'm like, all right. So I don't even raise my voice. He's on the blue line across from me. And I just look at him and I point to the center ice. Didn't my words never came out of my mouth. He raises his arm and comes over to me yelling off, off, off like top of his lungs. And I'm like, he goes, Can you hear that? And I was like, Yeah, but we also said before the game that, you know. And I was like, now I'm like, I'm turning red. I'm like, don't say anything. Don't say anything. And then we get into, Geno: Ouais. Jon Lounsbury: and there's a female ref with them that was awesome. We get into overtime zero zero. no, we go sorry. Before we go in overtime, we we take a power play and I call a timeout. And he's screaming down the other ice that he's gonna drop the puck and there is no time. And he's like, Yeah, he's berating me. And Geno: No timeouts! Jesus Christ. Jon Lounsbury: I'm like, I'm like, this the rules are right here. Like, I don't know. He comes over and he reads the rules and he still shuffles through the timeout. And after the game, I was like, hey, I'm sorry if I upset you. He goes, You didn't upset me. I go, Well, you treated me with a lot of disrespect like I upset you. And it like sent him in a tizzy Geno: Good for you. Jon Lounsbury: again. I was like, but but this is like I've had young kids, I've had 18 year olds come up and be like, hey, my name's George. Like, this is all I'm gonna call the game today. Just ask me a question. And I don't say when a Geno: That's what I tell to do. I I tell every referee to do that. Yep. Jon Lounsbury: kid does that to me, I don't say a word the whole game. Nothing. I don't care what happens. Zero. I'm like, this guy. Geno: Right. Case in point right here, everybody. Right here. You heard it Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Geno: right. Jon Lounsbury: The guy wins. Guy wins a day. You know, and it's just, but it's hard to like there, we had a penalty this weekend at the Wizards tournament, and one of our players stupidly, Geno: Wizards. Jon Lounsbury: well, we're we're in the she falls on the puck, like penguin. I've never seen anything do it. She's an awesome player. She sees the puck next to the net on the crease and she just falls on it like penguin dives. Geno: Hm. Jon Lounsbury: And I'm like, penalty. And I'm like, at least it's not a penalty shot, it's a penalty. And there's no whistle, and girls are like stabbing her, jamming Geno: Jamming at her, yeah, yeah. Jon Lounsbury: at her, and I They call it, they call her for a penalty, and I call the ref proper and go, I don't even care about the penalty. I go, but can you blow that? Like call Geno: Earlier. Jon Lounsbury: it right away because we just got stabbed 70 times. And then she was like, enough. Geno: Yeah, you gotta protect the player, right? Good point, no? Jon Lounsbury: And I'm like, it's on, I'm not. I'm just saying, like, just blow the whistle. Like so it's it's temperament. And Mark re my point is like you have to understand that like either kill it at the beginning of the game, like George did, or you just like learn how to. politefully, playfully banter or like make me think for a second. That one minute penalty Geno: Right? One hundred percent. Jon Lounsbury: shut my mouth for a minute because I had to figure out in my head like what you what you meant. Coach, I was a one minute penalty. You skated right by and was like, I had no rebuttal. I couldn't even Mark: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: like yell fat. Geno: John, I got I got a phone call from a a U twelve game from the referee and he was saying, you know, the coach and the players and you know they they kept checking and blah, blah, blah. So I hop LIBON, I look, and I'm like, that's not a penalty. that's not a penalty. I'm like, this kid's just overcalling the game and this and that. You know, and then like the the it just, you know, you gotta you gotta talk to these kids and the referees. Like we we put ourselves like in these spots and we can't like, you know you know, tell the coach that, hey, I'm I'm a college referee and taking the whistle off and hey, you blow it, right? And this is what the kid was doing during the game. And then, you know, I get the long email from the coach, right? And I'm like, this is being handled. Trust me. Like this is unacceptable. You are right. This referee is wrong. Right. So it's like it it does happen. Like people go, what are the repercautions for these referees? Like it's handled. Trust me. If I get this come across my desk, like I'm I'm putting a stop to it. And that same kid just called me a week later and said I had to throw this coach out and I have a lot of unsports and likes. And what I said to the kid, I go, this is you. I go, you gotta stop having rabbit ears. I go, hockey's like, don't, don't penalize something because someone said something. I go, manage it accordingly. You don't have to just start rifling things off because now it's you're lost. And it's it's that banter like you were talking about, that back and forth that let's be, you know, work together, not against each other. And you were trying to do that. Jon Lounsbury: What's what's your take? Now I'm gonna put you guys in the hot seat. What's your take? We had one the other day, and I'm not it's not a negative thing. I'm not saying anything ill towards a person. We had two referees in my daughter's game, and they called a tripping penalty. And the girls like, it's a big game against it. We we played Asimet and it was a big game, and it was early in the game, nothing, nothing. And we got we got on the power play, and the girls were like just they weren't they were clapping their sticks and kicking like we were on the power play. And they came right over and they're like, There's absolutely no clapping during a power play. And I was like, Who's clapping? I was like, I wasn't clapping. They were like, I go, Do you mean the girls? Yes, never again. And I was like, Okay. Geno: Yeah, you can't so it's a rule. Like you can't bang your sticks on the boards or you can't like it's a taunt, really. so like it yeah, it's usually you want them Mark: E Geno: and then, you know, call a penalty. But it's so it's it's where you as that's where we're at, like with the rules. Like so like I said to the so one kid I go, it's you're not doing anything wrong. Like you gotta call these majors and you gotta call the penalties the way they are and the twos and tens when they they're really not, right? And then we're calling fights that aren't and these kids are getting suspended for three games. It's like, what are we doing? Jon Lounsbury: So do you but do you approach that differently? Be like, hey, I don't know if you know the rules, but we can't do that. That's a different Mark: Yeah, I I I mean personally, Geno: Yeah. Mark: personally, like you you well, you're not supposed to Geno: Right. You approach it way different. Mark: when someone gets, you know, there's a big hit, the bench isn't supposed to celebrate, right? That's the new rules. Like you you know, it we're getting to the point Geno: Right. Mark: where someone scores, they're gonna tell them no celllies, like 'cause we might hurt someone's feelings. Jon Lounsbury: Okay. Mark: It you know, the emotion is part of the game. You know, and if they're doing it in an obnoxious way, you'd go over to the coach, say, coach, you know. Can you can you, you know, lighten up on the on, you know, the yelling or whatever when something hap know, you don't I don't know, I think my personal I think society's soft. And I just think, you know, if you're Geno: I you and Mark: not doing it obnoxiously and you're not doing it in a like a, you know, I don't wanna say hurtful way, but like, you know what I mean? If you're just celebrating your team, what's the big deal? You know? Geno: So like I my daughter played softball this year was so it was the first experience of softball. She's played baseball, but this was the first year she did the softball. And I didn't realize that they chant the whole fucking game. The whole game. The Mark: yeah. Geno: whole game. They don't stop. They don't shut up. It's and they absolutely berate the batters. And when they strike out, like, that was a very nice try. they walk it, it's just like and they like the pitcher just gets destroyed. It's sixteen nothing, and they're still cheering. And it's just like it's unbelievable. Mark: Yeah, I coach my daughter softball. Geno: But like what's the difference? Mark: I I I experience softball really early and they don't stop. It's just non stop cheering and and the chants and everything and it's yeah, it's it's a completely different animal, you know? Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: It's it's sport it's sports. It's sports. It's just like Geno: Yeah. That's it. Jon Lounsbury: it's man, it's just never it never stops. But I just think it's like I haven't well good for me. I haven't been kicked out of a game in a long time, which is I'm excited about it's been ye like years. My next We can fix that. You know what? Geno: That's a good thing, yeah. Pro I was gonna say probably it has to have been when you were a wallpole. Mark: When when's your next when's your next game? We we can fix that, John. When's your next game? Jon Lounsbury: You'll appreciate that. So my a buddy of mine's a He's a baseball coach and he was coaching the Sanford Mainers and the NEG PHL, whatever it is. It's like the Cape League up north. And he told me one that I used when I was coaching junior hockey and and he got into it with an ump. And the ump's like, you know what? One more word out of you, one more word out of you, you're gone. And he goes, Geno: Paint yourself in the car. Jon Lounsbury: and he goes, he goes, he goes, Am I gonna get in trouble for thinking something? The ump goes, what? He goes, Am I gonna get in trouble for thinking something? He goes, No, he goes, Good, 'cause I think you fucking suck. Mark: That's Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, I Geno: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: so I I stole that from him and used it with one of the guys and I I didn't say the F block, but I was like, I think he suck. God That's gonna Geno: Yeah. How that's good. Mark: That's classic. That's a classic. Jon Lounsbury: be pretty good. So Geno: that's good. Jon Lounsbury: can't take any credit. Mark: Well, I think I I mean, I think you're saying it and and Gino, you and I say it all the time. Communication is one of the biggest, Geno: Yes. It's key. Mark: your biggest asset when it comes to managing a game. And it doesn't matter if you're referring, you know, hockey or lacrosse or your umpiring, you know, that communication piece is huge. I I can't stand Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Mark: refs that, you know, don't when I was coaching, refs that didn't come over and say hi and just introduce themselves, right? Geno: Right. Mark: Or the ref that came over and said, This is how it's gonna be and if your kid does this and your kid does that and if you open your mind and you're like, dude, I I I I haven't even said anything. Why are you angry Geno: It's like the Mark: already? You know? Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Mark: so I think communication is key. Geno: It's like the Bugs Bunny cartoon. Jon Lounsbury: I I don't like that. The communication, I don't like the hustle up. Like the there's always the we have us always this one set. And it's like if there's an ice and the guy's already at the circle blowing the whistle, like ready to drop the puck. And our girls are like, I'm like, well, we got an hour and ten slot. Like, slow down. The game's going just fine. Like, Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: but again, that adds on to like parents. But then but then Geno: Frustration piece, yeah, right. Jon Lounsbury: the flip side, right? So you I I think this is where again we talk about temperature of the game. It's like, okay, there's good officiating and bad officiating at every sport. People have bad days. We we understand that. People don't see things. But now it's like, I, you know, you let this game get out of hand. You did this. Listen, I will tell you one thing that if Johnny's gonna make his decision on the bench that he's gonna go two hand that player in the face, he's made that decision there. And if I don't pick up it on the bench, he's doing it, and there's nothing you guys can do about it. So, like this is where the fault comes in. Well, it's a ref's fault. No, it's not because he's already given Johnny a penalty for slashing. That should be and then the the coach should be like, do that again. You're gonna keep sitting. And then it just like his blood boils and goes out. And we all played with emotions. Like there were guys like I when I was playing in in Huntsville, I had I got what do they call it? Bertuzzi. The guy skated up behind me and punched me in the back of the head. Thankfully I was fine. But like he made his mind up from the th two hundred feet he skated to do it. You know what I mean? So it's like Geno: What a bond. Jon Lounsbury: the ref isn't gonna stop that. Like it's there's a you know, so it's like a This is where the blame game comes in and now the parents are over the stands and you guys are trying to leave the rink and it's just no one's perfect, but it's like this the temperature of everything needs to calm down twenty degrees. Geno: agreed. And like there was a there was a hit this this weekend that, you know, got sent to me and I talked to the coach because he used to referee too, right? And he's like, Like, how was this missed? And then like my now my player goes and fights that player and my player's gone three games and this hit should have been s like called and it's not. Like what do you what what's going on? What what's what's there? What's gonna happen, right? And my guy shouldn't be suspended for fighting. I go, Why not? I was like, He fought him. Well, the the call wasn't made. I go, so what? I go, re re regardless of whether that that call was being made or not, that could the referees could have came together and said, Hey, I had that from from downtown, like I'm calling that. Your player chose to fight. Your player chose not to get a number. Your player chose not to, you know, get on next shift the properly, right? And he chose to fight. So that's why it's three games. Well, that's bullshit. I'm sending this to Masaki. I go, good luck. I go, they're just gonna tell you too bad. Mark: I I I think in youth hockey it's a combination of a few things. I don't know if we can point to one thing. The parents are out of control and a lot of them don't even understand the sport. They just know that, you know, they write a big check every year. The the coaches, you know, they're too emotional on the bench and they wanna blame everything. And you got referees, the good ones, they don't have games that go out of control. And the ones that don't give a shit are out there just for the paycheck and not calling anything. They're to blame too. So it's this whole cauldron of shit that creates these situations that happened over the weekend with the stick swinging Jon Lounsbury: Okay. Mark: and the kicking and all this stuff. It's like, you know, th there's i th there's multiple pieces of this puzzle that are not getting put together properly. Jon Lounsbury: No, but and again, no one's and again the the no one's perfect mentality and it's like I hate this is why I hate these you know, when you go on a podcast sometimes, you talk about things. It's it's not about like me or someone else, but last year we but we played we played Ben Lovejoy's team, who's got the Wildcats and great team. But it was a Geno: great team. Great program, man. Awesome team. Jon Lounsbury: it was a one-one game in New Hampshire and after like the the almost the buzzer blew and this girl she said something to my daughter and it She Olivia kind like, I've never seen this out of her. She snapped. She went over and like kind of cross-checked her and like one hand, like almost two-handed her, but let go and like slashed her. Game was over. I saw it right there. And I was like, I got it. I clipped it. Their team clipped it, but I sent it to to Ben and I said, my daughter sent them an email, like. I'm sorry, this is never gonna happen again. Like, I don't know, like whatever she wrote to him, and then I sent an apology letter because it's just just unacceptable. It could have made its rounds all over the internet, but it thankfully it didn't. But it's like, and Ben was great. He was like, Hey, temperatures, it's hockey. Thank you for handling it this way. He said the same to Olivia, and like it was just really, really nice of him to respond that way. No one got hurt, but it was was out of line. And I sat my kid the next game. Like No it wasn't even a penalty on the play, but it just like it it we just well. Geno: Those are learning lessons, right? Like your daughter just learned something at 10, right? So when she's fourteen, she's not gonna fucking do that, right? So like she just learned something. She has to go through that, right? And she know like, ooh, that's not that's not acceptable behavior. But if you don't address that, she might do it worse, right? So like these kids aren't getting getting shit addressed when when when the bad behavior is happening, right? Like my daughter was in Vegas, you know, lost a game, like real late goal. It was it was almost Probably off size, maybe not, but I was like, listen, make the stop, right? And she was a a dick going through the line. And you know, the coach said something to the other coach, and and then she came up to me and ratted on herself. And I was like, Well, you can I and I told her that. I told her, Listen, you gotta be a good sport. I go, it happens. I go, you shake the other people's hands and this and that. And I went up to the coach and I said, Hey, you gotta go and tell her that she represents the jersey, she represents the shirt, like We have good sportsmanship. And my daughter just learned something. And hopefully when she's fourteen or fifteen, she's not doing that. Jon Lounsbury: Right. Geno: Nip it in the butt, man. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. It's just like it and it what's the w this whole weekend of all the unfortunate events and all that stuff and it's just hard because you know, I think it was someone we know's team and he's just what he's a fantastic person. Like all world, like unbelievable person. Now now Geno: I heard that too. Yep. Jon Lounsbury: he's gotta deal with this. And it's just like man, and it's just like Yeah. Geno: Bad moment, right. Jon Lounsbury: Yep. Mark: Well, and and again, you know, I I teach and you know, teachers now have to deal with parents that, you know, the kid doesn't do the work, so they get a zero. Well, that's not okay. You can't give my kid a zero. Well, they didn't do the work. You know, where's the accountability, right? Like your kid hit a kid. Well, you know, i s so, you know, obviously the other kid had to do something. And it's it's similar to hockey, right? You know, but you held your daughter accountable. Gino, you hold your daughter. I used to do it with my, you know, my teams and my own daughter. Problem is not everyone does that. And it's a society thing. It's not just in sports. You know, we see it in school. We see it, you know, everywhere. Where I say everyone got a trophy. As soon as everyone started getting a trophy, the whole fucking society came collapsing down because kids just showed up and expected to be successful, and no one gets held accountable. And now you have situations where kids are doing stuff. And I, you know, yeah, there was shit that happened to that kid who slashed the kid, but he still slashed the kid. Like, you know, the parent can't say, well, he wouldn't have done that if X, Y, and Z happened. No, but he did it. You know, and and Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Mark: I think that's a bigger issue than just youth hockey, youth sports. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, but and when you s when you think about that same thing, like what I did to Olivia and and suspended her in Stockton, like coaches and here's why coaches wouldn't do it, is because I would have a tougher time having that conversation with someone else's kid. Right? I would still hold the same stance, Mark: Yes. Jon Lounsbury: but now I have to like the parents are gonna get involved. I have fantastic parents, so I'm lucky that way. But the conversation that being my own daughter in that specific situation was ten times easier to handle than if it was someone Geno: Big go. Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: else's kid. So it's like I can play I can play on both Geno: Good point. Jon Lounsbury: sides. I understand both sides of it, but it's like I don't know. Geno: But you did it more as a parent than a coach in that situation, right? And you had the you know, relationship with Ben to to be able to reach out and that kind of stuff. So Yeah. I mean be a good parent, right? Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Yeah. It's just Yeah. You know, and it's just unfortunate that these events and and that this is the the internet the internet world. It's that now it's Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: virals like not it's an understatement. You know what I mean? And it's like and it'll go away. And I I Geno: Yep. Jon Lounsbury: think what the hardest part about this the incident in hockey this weekend is that it's it's so it's so right in front of you right now, but in four days Geno: Early. Right. Jon Lounsbury: from now, the the the global perspective's gonna go away, right? But it's just gonna be like an in-house. You know, and there's gonna be, you know, every time you you know, what I'm worried for is like what happens next time the two teams play each other. Right? Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: I always used to say suspensions when you know, when we like when you take a suspension or or do something stupid, I think you should be suspended against that team the next time. Because nothing Geno: Next time, right. That that's Mark: Andy Van Helamon. Geno: a right. That's a good one. Mark: Andy Van Helleman, when I was in the East Coast League and he was he was the boss, Geno: Such a good rule. Mark: if someone did something, they and say they got a three game suspension, one of those games was the next game those team two teams played. So that it there was enough time elapsed so that it wasn't like, all right, this is the revenge game. So he was he was well ahead of the curve because that was back late nineties, early two thousands. Geno: When when no win. Mark: And it worked. Jon Lounsbury: Did did you did you ever Mark: It worked. Jon Lounsbury: have to did you ever have to to ref John Brophy, like when he coached? So Richmond. Yeah, so he was in Mark: bro. Yeah. He was in he was in Hampton Roads when I was there. Yeah. Geno: He did, yeah. Jon Lounsbury: Richmond when I was playing, and we showed up one game and he had he had a blue mohawk at 80 years old, and we and he he had a wooden Sherwood stick and he was just banging it on the stanchion between the two benches before the game even started. And I'm like, wow. Like Mark: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: What is this guy? Like, what is happening? And he's, you know, he's Geno: Zara world with him. Jon Lounsbury: legendary John Brofe. He took I feel bad. So a f a friend of mine who who had since passed through a a brain tumor, Brett Cross, he got traded to Richmond, went to Richmond, hurt his shoulder, right? He was a fighter, tough kid, super kid, SAS kid, and he got hurt and he came to practice the next day, and there was a trail of band-aids. From his locker through the training room into Brofi's office. And he walked into Brofi's office and Brofe had a sling on, right? He had a sling on and he he had like X ray images on his desk. He's like, I can't play, I can't he's just like crashes like what? Like basically like giving it to him. He's like it was like I'm you want me to play? And he's like, No, I don't want you to play for you know what I mean? Just like, holy Geno: Right. Mark: Bro, he was Geno: Mental. Mark: a character. Brof was a character. He almost him and Rick Vive almost fought in Geno: about a mindfuck. Mark: South Carolina. They were nose to nose in between the benches. Because back then there was no space in between the benches. They were nose to nose. I looked at Rick Vive. I go, You're a fifty goal scorer. He's a murderer. What what are you Jon Lounsbury: Mm-hmm. Mark: thinking? You know, he'll kill you. And Brofe was great. He was he was a trip to deal with for sure. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Mark: So Geno: Good stuff. Mark: what so for the res this coming season, right? The season's just starting, although some would argue it started a while ago. you know, what's your what's your season look like as far as, you know, obviously you got the coaching, you're coaching your daughter, but from the from the business standpoint, with you working with players, what's what's the season look like? What's a regular season look like for you? Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, so I I'll probably watch I think last year I got to like fifteen I watch fifteen hundred games ish, right? So I don't get full games, I get clips of players, but you know, I watch a player's clips the day after they play, give back feedback. So I'm on the computer six to seven days a week. watching the chefs, just seeing again, looking for some deficiencies, seeing what I can fix. So, you know, it's a it's a long stretch. I'll I'll travel to games. I I go to Boston games when the West Coast teams come in, 'cause I don't get to see the guys I work with a lot. So it's nice for me to kind of go in and see them. you know, and you just kinda go back and forth with the guys and and communicate with them. it it's I love it. I wouldn't change anything in the world. Like I said, it's the same stress everyone else has with work. Like it's there's days I don't want to do it. There's days that A guy hasn't scored in 10 games and I I'm I'm feeling like it's my fault. the only thing that's hard for me is I don't I don't get to go I have to pump myself up to go to the youth hockey practice. I do, like because I'm I'm watching hockey all day and I'm going hockey to hockey. So it's like I gotta get there and like Geno: it's calf, yeah. Jon Lounsbury: get my head around like this is fun, John. This is fun. It cause it there is times like I'm watching an NHL game, even a college game, you know, like and I go to the U 12 practice. I'm like, how can we not execute this? And I'm like, well, slow Geno: Bye. Jon Lounsbury: down. Slow down. Like, so I have to like put myself back in check at times. But it's you know, it's a lot of hockey. it's a lot of watching and learning. I learned I learned something every every time I open my computer. And I think that's what's the what the really cool thing is, you know, and watching the game and learning from other people and and just being able to to talk hockey with with some of the coaches, like. You you never in a million years think you put yourself in a position to to have a conversation with an NHL coach. Right? Like it Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: the coaches sometimes call when they have time and they talk about players that you might work with. And it's this is the first year it's ever happened. So it's like it's cool. It is cool. But also the phone rings, you're like, boy. Like you know what? Geno: That's cool. Huh. Ooh, what's going on? Is somebody gonna get lit up? Right, yeah. Hey, what are you teaching? Minefucker, I told them Jon Lounsbury: But it's the exact opposite. It's like, hey, you just want to be on the same page. And I I do I always start not defensively, like I am not even in your stratosphere of like coaching a system. I just like, you know, in your system, that guy missed the past. I know why he missed the past. Right. So it's like that's what I'm looking for. So it's it's that's my day to day. Geno: I mean you you look at these NHL guys, right, and you say, these like you a coach is gotta like like that about Right? Like they're getting a big paycheck, right? And what do they do? They're just gonna sit there and and and take it and not get any better and just go to practice, go to the games and you know, whatever, not work on their craft and you know, go go do your workouts and that's it. Do the bare minimums. Like but with with a player that's in a program like that you run, like that's the next that's the next level. That's the extra extra flavor, right? And you know, these these NHL guys really care what they do and what they you know how how they're perceived by the by the public and they really really care about their craft. And it's not they're just taking a paycheck, right? So like Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, the w the work ethic on the younger guys right now these days is is unbelievable. Like you watch you watch the guys in the summertime and whether they're with me or just on their own, like there's guys in Boston I don't work with and I just love like you watch just how hard they're they're working at it and now the amount of time they're spending on the ice. Like it's it's they're realizing the importance of like the touches they have and the time spent on the ice. Now it's hard because we the we live in an internet age, so we we go on on on Twitter or whatever, and we see, you know, Macklin Cellebrini on the ice five days a week. Well, he's getting paid eighteen million dollars to do that. Like you your your ten year old doesn't need to do that. Your ten year old needs Geno: Correct. Jon Lounsbury: to like jump over things and like learn how to have motor skills and catch a ball and throw a ball and and w all that stuff. So it's this is where the professionalization comes into it, right? And it's just kind of you gotta let you gotta let kids be kids and learn vicariously through trial and error. Geno: So when you hear of these kids being on full hockey teams, a little ridiculous. Some are on six to eight because especially the girls, right? They got you got all these different leagues. You got the E9, the NEGHL, the EHF, they're playing on boys' teams, town teams, two different club teams. It's absolutely obnoxious how many how many teams these kids are playing on nowadays. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, we we played on two. We did Canton youth hockey at and Spitfires and we we couldn't make Geno: Yeah, perfect. Jon Lounsbury: but we couldn't make I would say fifty percent of the Canton commitments and I felt awful. I genuinely Geno: Right. Right. Jon Lounsbury: was like I feel awful about it, like we can't get the praxis, we can't so it just we it we stopped doing it. You know, and it it's like Yeah. Geno: Right. S same with us. Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: It was a fr it was more of a friendship thing and they love the girls and and again, it's just like that's what it's all about, but I you know The days of having a lease on your car is gone. Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: You know, you're at twenty five thousand miles a year. Go on the dealership. You want to lease this one? Like, sis, listen here, buddy. Any anyone just turn in their lease? You know. Mark: You just say my kid plays hockey. All right. We'll be Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Mark: we'll be applying for a loan on this one. Jon Lounsbury: Wait a minute, club sports. I there's I have friends that play like boys, Lassachusetts and stuff and they're in they're in Long Island like seven times a year. I'm like Mark: yeah. Geno: Yeah, same deal. All the time. Mark: It's crazy. It's crazy how many games some of these teams play too. Like you got ten year olds playing eighty games a season. And it's like, what are we doing? You know, like that's just insane. Insane. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. There was a friend of mine had said he was like we were talking about his son. Well, we were just talking about how his son was doing all that stuff and he's he's in Toronto and he's like, I was like, How do you do last year? Like compared to this year. He's like, he had a he had like a hundred and fifty points last year. I'm like, dude, that's unbelievable. I go, It's like three points a game. You know what I mean? He goes, Yeah, we played eighty-six games. I'm like, Holy cow, like this is you know, I'm thinking Geno: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: it's like a f you know, a normal like we play forty, our our Spitfire season last year was forty. Forty four? You know, between like the few tournaments we did and all that stuff, and I'm like, that's a lot. It's a lot of it's a Geno: It is. Jon Lounsbury: it's a lot of hockey, you know, and especially as you're getting into the big girl hockey I call it, because it is it is physical and it is fast. And I watch these girls come off the ice after a game like good for you. Like the effort you put into that, and it's just like you know, it's it's gotta slow down at some point, but then it becomes when you have your children and listen. If a parent can afford to do it and they want to do it for their kids and drive everywhere, God love them. Like, and and I'm Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: not gonna never gonna knock that parent. It's it's a lot on the kids. You don't want to see them quit. But at the same time, it's like they keep doing it because now not it's not I don't think it's so much the investment piece. There's people I don't like letting people down. It's a it's a bad personality trait I have. And I feel like if I commit to something, I'm stuck and I'm in. And the next year they ask me to do it again, and I'm like, okay. So it's just like I think we fall into that. Like, you guys are playing next year too, right? And you're like, yeah, now you're on the team again. Geno: Yeah, right. why'd I say yes? Right. Jon Lounsbury: So that is, you know, that it is I'm a sucker for that stuff. Now I don't do it with kids' teams, but I'm like, I do it with a client. I do a little bit more. Now they expect a little bit more. And now you do that more. You know what I mean? It's just like you keep putting yourself in a position to screw your kid over. That's it at the end. Like that's I went on a podcast a while ago and we we talked about all the summer tournaments. And I just said, listen, if my kid comes to me and says, I want to play every single weekend, I'm okay with that. Like I'll say, okay, within reason, within like Geno: I'm okay with that. Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: we're going away this week and we're doing this. But I've never signed my kid up for a tournament. Right? That's that's where it's different for me. The second they come and say, I would like to play, okay. How many? What do you want to do? Wanna try out? We tried the junior bruners experience. We went through it. It was fine. It was fine. Like, you know what I mean? But it was like, all right, that that's enough forever. You know what I mean? So it's like, I don't I don't I just think it should be different. Like, I don't care about summer hockey. If your kids want to play a million games, that's on them. It's on you. But I it doesn't Geno: how about it? Jon Lounsbury: bother me, but let the kids own it. Let the kids come to you and be like, I love last summer. I love playing for those teams. I want to play for this team again because they're my buddies. Great. It doesn't Geno: Right. That's what it should be. Jon Lounsbury: but people get so worked up on the internet, it's like, well, the kid, listen, I don't care about if you're not in the room with me, I don't care. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not gonna get consumed with what you're doing with your kid. That's your decision. And I have nothing to do with that. So it's like we should just stop talking about it. Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: You know what I mean? It's like little the you see every comment, little Johnny's not gonna win the NHL. Nope. But little Johnny's having the time of his life. They're flicking boogers in the locker room. They're they're e you know what I mean? They're like sticking their hands in each Geno: Yeah, right. Jon Lounsbury: other's popcorn. And if their parents and little Johnny and those kids that that's the experience they're gonna give is great. Now when when the other family says no, we're in we're in Narragansett for the summer, that's their experience. So I don't Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: knock anyone like, is it overload? Well I tell a friend, yes, it's too much. Yes. Absolutely. Well, I go online and tell a random stranger that their kid's not gonna make it to the league. No. You know, I have my beliefs on what youth hockey should look like and what tournaments should look like, but that's just what I believe in. Doesn't mean anyone has to follow it or believe the same way. It's just like, you know, I s Geno: Right on. Jon Lounsbury: what I speak out about is my own thoughts, not you know, cult classic. Geno: Love it. Mark: To ask you this because you've coached boys and girls. I've done the same. Which one do you like coaching better? Or do you like coaching Jon Lounsbury: Mm. Mark: one better? Personally, I liked coaching the girls way better than boys because the girls listened, they applied what you told them right away. The boys all thought they knew more, and five games later they go, Hey coach, that worked. And you're like, No shit. It would have worked five games ago if you tried it. The girls, next shift, they they go out and do what you told them. And they come back and they're all fired up and they're like, Wow, that it I I just I'd rather coach girls all day. Jon Lounsbury: I I you know what it was fun for both. I never had the issues of the boys like thinking they knew better because I had a fun I had a good temperament with the guys and we had fun. The girls are like they're so much fun to work with, but they're insanely literal. That's the only time I get upset. It's like, Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: hey, Mark: Yes. Jon Lounsbury: when we're when we're breaking out, just like go to this spot. They just stand there and all of a sudden the play goes by and I'm like, all right, like let's just let's think about this for a second. Like Mark: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: and then you can if you get the relationship and the attention with the girls, like I am you can ask the other guys I coach with the most sarcastic, probably off-colored person on the bench because someone will come back and I'd like we have this girl Haley who I love and I've known since she was a baby and I was like, Q. I was like, is this at what point was that a good idea? They just like they just look, you know what I mean? It's just like so you can have that banter with them this you know, the same way as the boys. I I at this point I'm I'm on the girl side of just like it's fun. I think it's there's so many good people and coaches out there in the in the women's sport. I I really do. I Geno: I agree with that. Jon Lounsbury: think I think I love the the organization I'm with. I'm with the Spitfires and and it's the Vicky who runs it is Geno: Great organization, yes. Jon Lounsbury: but she's just all about you know what it what it is so attractive about the place is like she's everything goes back to the kids, right? It's just like the banquets, the gifts, all that stuff. But it's just like that's what it's all about. It's just like how Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: can we give back? Can we be a part of it? Something that's bigger. And it's like here here's a woman who's Who won a gold medal and y you'll never hear her talk about it or bring it out for the kids or whatever. It's not about her. You know Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: what I mean? It just like gives us the opportunity. And and I'm not everyone has the same experience, but I would say 90% of us have. You know, and there's there's always the 10% that don't like where they're at, but I think that's a common theme wherever they wherever they go. And it's and it's a hard listen, but it's you you surround yourself with the right people, your kids will flourish in in the right spot at the right time. And that's all it Geno: Bingo. Jon Lounsbury: is. That's all it is. I mean, you get grills as a coach. Like it's there's so many good hockey Geno: He's the Basman. Jon Lounsbury: there's so many good hockey people out there that's just like that are able to give back. I mean, even the boys side, you NHL guys that played in the NHL behind the bench. Like what that's it's like who who like Geno: Right. Can't get better than that. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, like you it doesn't get better than that. And they're given their time. Like we're not paid coaches. Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: Like it's we're still dad. Everyone's like, Well, you're not a dad coach. Well, I'm still a dad coach. Yes, I am. Like my kids right there. Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: I'm saying, you know, and it's just It's just I have a little bit of knowledge. Like guys so it's like really cool to see the guys that retire from playing in New England that are coaching their kids and you know, I'm hearing like Ryan Whitney's on the bench with one of the team. Like it's just but this Geno: He is yes, yep. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, but like that's how incredible is that for your kid to play for someone like that? But Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: there's gonna be one person or two people on on Ryan Whitney's team that are gonna be unhappy at some point because of whatever factor it is. No matter how Geno: Whatever. Right. Mark: Mm-hmm. Jon Lounsbury: this guy's like a an incredible hockey figure and it's just still not gonna be good at some point. Maybe not this year, maybe not next. Yeah. But Geno: Yeah. People people will find something. Right. Yeah. And I don't even think and like I I love it. Like he's not like his kid's not on the top team or whatever. You know, and he's not bitching about that, right? He's just like, no, this is hockey development. My kids eight or whatever, right? Like just go out and have fun and love the and fall in love with the game. That's what it is. Mark: That's one of the reasons why we always tell referees, you know, you don't know who's on the bench. You know, you might Geno: Right. Mark: not recognize them. And you you don't want to be telling someone that played in the NHL or, you know, down the East Coast League, we had three or four coaches that were in the Hall of Fame. You know, you who are you gonna go over and talk down to them or, you know, be a smart ass to them? It's like you don't know who's on the bench. So treat everyone with respect, you know. And if they treat you like a dick, well then you, you know, you handle that with the rule book and what you have to do. But, you know, we always say that. You never know who's on the bench. So I got I have one last question because I I personally I know if I'm watching this and listening to this, which I hope thousands are, they're probably sitting there going, I wonder who Geno: One day. Mark: he I wonder who he works with in the NHL. I mean, is that is that a an okay question to ask? Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, I mean it's it's for sure an okay question. I mean it there's a There's there's lot of guys. you know, everyone I've been fortunate to to skate with a lot of different people from the the eyels of the world and all that stuff. you know, some of my some of my I can't say favorite people because they go along. I've I have a really tight knit group. We have we have one group that I've skated with for last six years, like a kid like Ryan Shea, who just Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: signed a huge deal in Edmonton. And here's a guy that everyone's like, Well, is he gonna make it? Has spent his time in the American League and got his first big contract at twenty-nine years old. John Marino's been been with me since since day one, since he was just out of college and just kind of watching him go Geno: Great kid. Jon Lounsbury: through, yeah, no, he's gonna make eighty, ninety million bucks. you know, like a coil. you know, one of my favorite people and players who who's kind of been up and down a little bit is is Jack Rathbone, right? He's he's in the American League now. He's on a two-way contract, played some games in the NHL. I got a guy Bob Mancini used the the head of USA hockey is his kid Victor plays in Vancouver, who's one of my clients. Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: you know, I have Brian Green in Chicago, I have Trent Frederick in Edmonton, I have, you know, there's a I have a lot of guys, which is which is cool. Some guys it's more private than others, but it's I've been super fortunate. I mean, just in the way guys are and and you know, it's you he the people. Like a really incredible people. Like, forget hockey. And and this is why I call myself fortunate. It's like these guys are like I get texts on Sunday night sometimes just being like, How'd the girls do? You know what I mean? Like and it's just like that's the that's the human element of it, you know? And it's Geno: That's cool. Personal touch, right. Jon Lounsbury: yeah, the personal touch. So it's there's you know, Gavin Rodriguez and and who's now in in Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: New Jersey. Like there's just so many unbelievable people that just have fun and just kinda And then it's you know, everyone's everyone's got a different reason why. You know, they all they all want a little bit more. and and again, you you get you're hired to be fired, so I'll go anywhere from from twenty to twenty-four people in the NHL to, you know, I mean to each year, depending on who wants what and what services and You know, I had one of my favorite people in the last couple of weeks just say, Hey, thanks for everything. I our last couple of years have been unbelievable. I think it's like I need a little bit of change, but let's reevaluate in the summertime. All right. You know what I mean? Like that's and again, like what yeah, I've been fortunate enough. Like, thank you, right? At the same time, thank you for giving Geno: R right, right. Jon Lounsbury: me the opportunity and trusting me. And it's like we're at a point where it's like, all right, we're we're having a ton of success, but it's kind of flatlining a little bit, right? So it's like, maybe it is me. It's that's being self aware, you know, it's just kinda you know, we can't Geno: And you keep a healthy relationship, right? It's not like, hey, fuck you, you're leaving me, blah, blah, blah. It's like you Jon Lounsbury: Well that's a Geno: know what I mean? It's just like, hey, whatever, hey, let's revisit it. Good luck. Yeah, you pleasure work with ya, right? Like some people just yeah, I mean that's great that you have you have Jon Lounsbury: But the part of the bus but the part of the business all is I don't solicit. So there's no like advertisements about Geno: Mm. Jon Lounsbury: what I do. There's some like reels of like people skating with me, but there's it's it's a word of mouth business. So like I want I want someone to go in locker room and be hey, what do you what are you watching? I'm what I work with John, he does clips for me and all that stuff. And then the phone rings. Or it's Geno: Right, right. Right. Jon Lounsbury: their agent calls and like, Hey, you did a good job with with Gino. I want you to work with Mark. You know what I mean? Like that's so it's you're building that foundation Geno: So and so right. That's so cool, yeah. Jon Lounsbury: of really cool, you know, and again, it's it's a Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: pinch in the arm every time and I I'll never forget, never a guy that'll forget where I came from. I have a different guys laugh at me. I have a different personality off the ice and on the ice. I have a like a a kind of a a swag of confidence when I get on the ice because I I feel like I I have to. and and I have to one, I believe in what I do and I have to be confident in doing it, but I'm I'm you know, I'm above my pay grade with some of these guys, right? I have Stanley Cup winners. I have guys making a hundred million dollars and it's just like I gotta I gotta take a deep breath as I step on the ice being like, all right, time to like to put the Superman cape on and get out of the phone booth a little bit. And then when I come off the ice, it just kinda like I still even though even when I have an awesome session with a couple of guys, I'm like, that's that was cool. Like that you know what I mean? Like that was a cool, you know, cool moment. Geno: mean you're I mean you're you're dealing with a national hockey league player, right? And like you said, like you didn't play that's gonna be a lot of pressure on you, like, I gotta prove myself to this guy. I gotta give him something a little extra or or what have you but, you know, just don't put that pressure on yourself. Go out and naturally do it and let the Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Geno: results show. Jon Lounsbury: And that's part of the part of the sport. You just gotta like let it go and go out and do it and and understand that people aren't gonna like you. Period. Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: I've gone on the ice with guys that were like, he was fine. Like I, you know, our personalities Geno: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: didn't match. And like the at first I would search, I'm like, well, why didn't you like me? Why didn't you like this? And I was like looking for reasons why then I'm like, you know what? My dog jumps at certain people. And licks other people. Geno: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: It's just that's the nature of not everyone's gonna like me. And I I had to learn to be okay with that. And it was really hard thing. Hardest thing I've had to overcome is because you are when you're a people pleaser and you want guys, you have to like learn to be self-confident enough where like, all right, it's okay, someone doesn't like me. Like grow up, move on. Like, yeah. Mark: Sounds a lot like being Geno: Good stuff. Mark: a referee, to be honest with you. You have to have that Geno: No, it is. Mark: confidence and you gotta be okay with you know 50% Geno: Failure. Mark: of the time being wrong, no matter if you're right or not. So, and I'll say, hey, Bill Belichick never even played football, I don't think. So, and you know, one of the greatest NFL coaches ever. Now he's not doing so well and he's Jon Lounsbury: I would say, so here's here's the difference between the guys behind the bench is because their X's and O's are like, and Bill's like structure and all that stuff is unbelievable. I have to physically be able to perform. Like, and that's the hardest thing for me is like if I'm teaching Geno: Right. Jon Lounsbury: something and I can't do it, I lost them right there. They're Mark: Yeah. Jon Lounsbury: never gonna come back. You know what I mean? Because like, well, you you can't do it. You're gonna try to teach me it. So it's like I have to stay sharp. So at like 44 years old, I I go out and tinker. When I see something, I figure out how to do it, why we do it, what's the reason behind it, and then it's like and then I gotta learn to execute it because when we teach it, I want them to go like, that's pretty pretty good. Yeah. Just like, you know, just like laugh with me. But that's that's part of it. Geno: you do what I do, you just h Mark: It's awesome. Geno: hire a power skating coach when I Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Geno: run my referee stops because I can't do half that shit. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Hey, Jon Lounsbury: Listen, you know what you're good at. This it's Mark: Right? That's it. Go over the signals and then get out of the way. Geno: can you go do that? This was great, man. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, good. But yeah. Mark: that's good. John, thanks for coming on, man. This has been awesome. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah, thanks for your time guys. I appreciate coming on. I hope it goes more than Mark: You know, continued success. Yeah, no, it's Geno: Yep, best of luck. Jon Lounsbury: I hope this goes more than a month for you guys. I'm proud of you for for doing what you're doing. Geno: Right on. Mark: You know, we're hoping. We're hoping we get a couple more episodes. We we've been doing okay, I guess. But Jon Lounsbury: Ha ha. Mark: no, we it it's cool to have someone on with the perspective you have and and you know, the experience you have and and so this been this been a this been a blast. Geno: This was awesome. Jon Lounsbury: Yeah. Thanks for having me guys. Thanks for listening to me. Mark: Awesome. Geno: Right on. this is great. Mark: Well, that's a lot to unpack in that episode right there. I think we covered some Geno: Yeah, we got a lot, a lot to come. Mark: really good stuff right there. Geno: Yeah, like I said earlier in the intro, know, he brings a he brings a great perspective of hockey in general, right? Just not just from a coach's perspective, just on, you know, parents being a parent and a coach and what that's like being on the bench. which is Very difficult, right? And you're not just disciplined in and how to discipline other kids and how that's a difficult thing, right? so people say, it's all about the coaches and it's hard. It's hard to do that. It's hard to tell another another kid that, you know, cut the shit. Mark: Right, right. We've all been there. So well we hope you enjoyed this one. that's gonna do it. Wanna thank our sponsor again, the referees crease, and remind you to find us on all the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course Geno: The TikTok. Mark: Thank you, Gino, tripping zebras dot com for all the information you need and all the merch. And we can looking forward to next week and looking forward to the start of the hockey season. It's right around the corner. Well, Geno: Kiddy up. Go bees. Mark: some did already, but you know, preseason games. Yep. So Geno: Yep, women college hockey started already. The AHA's four and just saying Mark: Yep. And and the NFL is back, so it's a great time of the year. The Red Sox are in the playoffs. it's it's a fun it's a fun time of the year. Geno: Anytime the Red Sox Yankees are playing each other in the playoffs, it's must watch T V, so tune in. Mark: Yep. So survive the pumpkin spice. Enjoy the sports. And we'll see you right now right right here on the Chirping Zebras for Gino and Mark. Have a great great rest of your day, great rest of your week, and enjoy some sports. Geno Binda: you