Latest / MUBI Podcast / HAL & HARPER — Cooper Raiff comes unstuck

Transcript

HAL & HARPER — Cooper Raiff comes unstuck · MUBI Podcast

• 0:00
  Heads up, this episode contains some adult language, a few moments so poignant you may shed a tear, and spoilers.
• 0:10
  When Cooper Raiff started putting together his new TV show, Hal & Harper, he needed to cast someone as his older sister, and there was one
• 0:19
  person he had in mind: Lili Reinhart.
• 0:21
  person he had in mind: I'm mesmerized by her eyes, and she's the person you want to follow into the dark.
• 0:27
  person he had in mind: So he asked her to meet for coffee.
• 0:29
  person he had in mind: I basically said, like, I'm interested in you playing my big sister.
• 0:33
  person he had in mind: And she was like, "Oh, that's sweet." Cooper sent her the script, and after binge reading the first three episodes, she called him up.
• 0:40
  person he had in mind: Then she randomly was like, "I'm going to this place called Mount Shasta"to visit a healer, and this is crazy, but do you want to come?
• 0:48
  person he had in mind: "And we'll stay in a cabin together and go see this healer?" What do you remember about that trip to Mount Shasta?
• 0:56
  person he had in mind: We healed together in lots of ways.
• 0:59
  person he had in mind: It was a healer who would bang on drums and you'd sit on this couch and it wasn't together, Lili and I didn't do it together.
• 1:06
  person he had in mind: It was a one on one, but I would lay on a couch and close my eyes, and I literally went into this place where I met my spirit animals, and I was like, okay, that is my big sister.
• 1:22
  person he had in mind: Welcome back to the MUBI Podcast.
• 1:24
  person he had in mind: I'm your guest host Simran Hans, and MUBI is a global film company that champions great cinema.
• 1:29
  person he had in mind: On this show, we tell you the stories behind great cinema.
• 1:33
  person he had in mind: We're in the middle of a season about food on film.
• 1:36
  person he had in mind: Your regular host Rico Gagliano will be back with more of that later this week.
• 1:40
  person he had in mind: But today we wanted to drop in this special episode.
• 1:43
  person he had in mind: It's my conversation with Cooper Raiff about his new TV show, Hal & Harper.
• 1:49
  person he had in mind: It's streaming on MUBI in the US, France and Latin America, and all the episodes are available now.
• 1:55
  person he had in mind: The show is about a younger brother and an older sister, Hal and Harper, who were both in their 20s.
• 2:01
  person he had in mind: The two are best friends and have been ever since they lost their mum as kids.
• 2:06
  person he had in mind: But is it time for them to finally grow up?
• 2:09
  person he had in mind: And what if growing up involves growing apart?
• 2:12
  person he had in mind: These are the questions they have to confront when they learn dad is having a baby with his new girlfriend and selling their family home.
• 2:18
  person he had in mind: I'm feeling scared about us not being together, and I'm really upset about our childhood house being sold.
• 2:22
  person he had in mind: I'm okay with him having a baby, but I just don't want him to sell our childhood house.
• 2:26
  person he had in mind: Cooper plays Hal with Lili Reinhart as his big sister Harper and Mark Ruffalo as Dad.
• 2:32
  person he had in mind: It is warm, it's funny, and there's a strong chance it'll break your heart.
• 2:36
  person he had in mind: In today's episode, we learn whyHal & Harper had to be a TV show and how Cooper summoned his inner seven year old in order to play the lead.
• 2:45
  person he had in mind: First, though, I asked him about the moment right before he started making the show.
• 2:50
  person he had in mind: The year was 2022 and everything was coming up Cooper.
• 2:56
  person he had in mind: He was 25 years old, and his second film,Cha Cha Real Smooth, had just won the Audience Award at Sundance, where Apple bought the film for $15 million.
• 3:06
  person he had in mind: Sundance got canceled because of the, like, 90th variant of Covid, and so I was at home with my friends and we found out through, like Twitter that we had won the Audience Award.
• 3:20
  person he had in mind: And then after that, we were like in the middle of conversations with certain streamers and buyers and it was really exciting when it got bought.
• 3:30
  person he had in mind: Honestly, the first thought that I remember having was, now I can do what I want to do.
• 3:39
  person he had in mind: And that thing was Hal & Harper.
• 3:41
  person he had in mind: There's something about winning the Audience Award, it makes you feel like, oh, I can do something that maybe audiences might not like, but I can get away with it.
• 3:50
  person he had in mind: Why is that the project that you wanted to get off the ground next.
• 3:56
  person he had in mind: Why was that the next thing?
• 3:58
  person he had in mind: I had been writing Hal & Harper since I was in college, and I didn't ever, and still don't know why, I came up with these characters, but they've always been living in my subconscious.
• 4:09
  person he had in mind: The initial idea was this kind of funny, or what I thought was funny idea of two kids who grew up too fast and they were seven and nine years old, but they were played by college students, and I wrote that show at first, and I tried to get that made before Cha Cha.
• 4:23
  person he had in mind: And so I set it up at a network, actually.
• 4:26
  person he had in mind: And what you find out really quickly when trying to make a TV show at a network is that you're not going to really make it for about 6 or 8 years, and I think that art needs to go faster than that.
• 4:41
  person he had in mind: I kind of stalled out there mentally and started working on Cha Cha, because I just realized that this TV show wasn't going to happen, and I was really sad about it.
• 4:50
  person he had in mind: But when Cha Cha did well, my first thought was, oh, I can go make this show the way that I want to make it.
• 4:58
  person he had in mind: And my first idea was to make it independently, because I knew that was the fastest, easiest way to to make it.
• 5:06
  person he had in mind: I'm kind of interested to hear a little bit more about why it ended up taking this form, because I understand that it started as a web series.
• 5:15
  person he had in mind: - Yes.
• 5:15
  person he had in mind: - Can you...
• 5:17
  person he had in mind: talk a little bit about what it looked like in that early iteration?
• 5:20
  person he had in mind: It sounds crazy and weird and it is, but my college girlfriend and I were in twin beds, like on opposite sides of my dorm room, my friend Will's dorm room, and my friend Will Youmans helped me write the show.
• 5:34
  person he had in mind: Will is a comedian, and I'm not.
• 5:38
  person he had in mind: And so it was kind of more of a schticky web series where Hal and Harper would sit in bed before bed every night and talk about what their dad said to them, that was like basically not something that you should say to a 7 or 9 year old.
• 5:55
  person he had in mind: And like Harper was smoking cigarettes out of the window and no one thought it was funny except for me and Will and Madeline.
• 6:04
  person he had in mind: And then after that, at some point, I was like, an actual TV show would be about college Hal and Harper and it was always a TV show.
• 6:17
  person he had in mind: I loved TV because I think it's the only medium where you're able to dive into characters.
• 6:24
  person he had in mind: TV, to me, is this opportunity to let the audience control how they dive in and when they want to dive in, and if they want to take a break.
• 6:34
  person he had in mind: And Hal & Harper, it's heavy.
• 6:36
  person he had in mind: I love that people watching are able to decide when they want to go all the way inside with these characters.
• 6:44
  person he had in mind: Is there a particular TV show that you watched at your own pace in that way?
• 6:48
  person he had in mind: Normal People really was the validating force that I think helped me trust that Hal & Harper was what it was supposed to be.
• 6:57
  person he had in mind: I was obsessed with Normal People, just Sally Rooney's book, and I just knew that the TV show was going to be great.
• 7:05
  person he had in mind: That show is just those two characters.
• 7:07
  person he had in mind: I watched that show three times, and I remember talking to friends who I'd be like, "Are you watching?" And like, "Yeah, but I can't go to the finale yet.
• 7:15
  person he had in mind: "I can't finish it." And I love that.
• 7:18
  person he had in mind: Like, they just weren't ready to, I don't know if it's they weren't ready to say goodbye or if they knew what was coming.
• 7:24
  person he had in mind: And they were afraid of the pain or what, but it was, it's a beautiful show, and it was the show to me that made me realize Hal & Harper could work.
• 7:35
  person he had in mind: What different things did the format of having multiple episodes offer you in terms of the storytelling and being able to have a different rhythm to a film?
• 7:45
  person he had in mind: Just different emotional segments, I guess, like the show to me is about this family in the present who is very close and codependent, and their journey is one of coming apart.
• 8:01
  person he had in mind: And to tell the story in the way that I wanted to tell it, I had to go back to the year that they came together.
• 8:08
  person he had in mind: The third episode of Hal & Harper is going back in time and seeing these three individuals who are very alone and planting the seeds of, oh, I can go take care of that person and it will help me feel taken care of, or at least make me feel less alone.
• 8:27
  person he had in mind: I think the story from there becomes about like, what does it actually mean to be there for someone, and what does it mean to be a dad?
• 8:36
  person he had in mind: And what does Harper really need?
• 8:40
  person he had in mind: The medium of TV just offers you this ability to do a story in nuggets.
• 8:47
  person he had in mind: There was just so much story to tell with Hal & Harper and it's hard to be seamless about it.
• 8:54
  person he had in mind: I was glad that you mentioned the third episode, because that's when we begin to see this really interesting device, which are these flashback scenes, as you said, that take us back to Hal and Harper's childhood.
• 9:05
  person he had in mind: And in those scenes, you and Lili, who are two adult actors, play your your kid selves.
• 9:11
  person he had in mind: Hey, guys, I got a surprise waiting at home.
• 9:14
  person he had in mind: - Really?
• 9:14
  person he had in mind: - Shitty French toast?
• 9:16
  person he had in mind: No. No guesses.
• 9:18
  person he had in mind: - Time machine?
• 9:18
  person he had in mind: - No, it's a basketball hoop.
• 9:21
  person he had in mind: To play basketball?
• 9:23
  person he had in mind: Wait, did you get a ball too so we can shoot it in the goal?
• 9:26
  person he had in mind: No, I thought we'd just use our imaginations.
• 9:28
  person he had in mind: Wow! Cool. That's so fun.
• 9:29
  person he had in mind: No, I got three balls. I was just joking.
• 9:31
  person he had in mind: - Three balls!- Hal, everyone can hear you.
• 9:35
  person he had in mind: And I'm curious to know how you sort of came up with that storytelling device.
• 9:41
  person he had in mind: My immature understanding of it was, oh, these kids grew up too fast, so I'm going to show that they grew up too fast by showing them be older people.
• 9:49
  person he had in mind: But then I think it sort of snowballed for me into realizing, oh, it's about these very emotionally stunted adults.
• 9:56
  person he had in mind: And the best way to experience that emotionally is to see the very stunted 20 year olds as a first and third grader, 'cause then when you go back and see them, you sort of understand that they had this very unique childhood where they were very confused, and it's led to a lot of fear in their adult lives.
• 10:21
  person he had in mind: Can you talk a little bit about where you wanted the tone to land with those scenes?
• 10:25
  person he had in mind: Because, for example, you and Lili don't put on little kid voices.
• 10:31
  person he had in mind: You play it quite straight.
• 10:32
  person he had in mind: And some of those moments when you're running around with your little backpack and sort of, you know, trying to play basketball, some of those moments are kind of goofy and funny, but also absolutely heartbreaking as well.
• 10:46
  person he had in mind: Something I talked about a lot during prep was how important it was that it felt really accessible and inviting.
• 10:54
  person he had in mind: I never wanted it to feel"weird".
• 10:58
  person he had in mind: Why do you think you rejected that word?
• 11:00
  person he had in mind: Or what did "weird" conjure up in your mind that you didn't want this show to be.
• 11:05
  person he had in mind: Like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind came to mind.
• 11:09
  person he had in mind: Like I did not want it to feel like that.
• 11:13
  person he had in mind: People can call this thing weird, and that's-- But as the creator's not, it feels sort of very superficial to me or on the surface. But it was really important to make it silly.
• 11:26
  person he had in mind: To me, it's very funny and I didn't ever want to go for situational comedy'cause I never do.
• 11:34
  person he had in mind: I think the funniest stuff is the stuff that's given the most emotional content.
• 11:38
  person he had in mind: And so I think that's where I'm always coming from.
• 11:41
  person he had in mind: But like when they're playing basketball, the funniest part of it to me is dad having this seven and nine year old.
• 11:48
  person he had in mind: And it's frustrating to have kids because they're not adults.
• 11:53
  person he had in mind: And he's kind of trained them to act like adults.
• 11:57
  person he had in mind: I love the idea of them being his height, but they are still frustrating the heck out of him because they can't get the ball up into the rim.
• 12:05
  person he had in mind: And it's testing his parental patience because he's like,"You're right there, you're right there!" But they're not. They're kids.
• 12:13
  person he had in mind: It was all inside of the emotional content of them growing up too fast.
• 12:18
  person he had in mind: That's why I think it is so funny is Dad's like, "What are you doing, pal?
• 12:23
  person he had in mind: "Just get it up there." Tell me about how you approached the physicality of a seven year old, because it's quite uncanny your impression of a seven year old.
• 12:32
  person he had in mind: I think I do have a seven year old in me, and I maybe was tapping into that, but I didn't at all study the movements of a seven year old that I know.
• 12:41
  person he had in mind: And with Lili, it was, it was just this kind of trust that we're gonna, on the day, we're gonna find it.
• 12:48
  person he had in mind: What things are you looking for as the director?
• 12:50
  person he had in mind: Is it in the way that somebody holds themself?
• 12:53
  person he had in mind: Is it in the way that they walk?
• 12:55
  person he had in mind: As a director, I'm not looking for anything.
• 12:57
  person he had in mind: I'm just kind of feeling.
• 12:57
  person he had in mind: And if it feels right, it's right.
• 13:02
  person he had in mind: I never directed Lili as the nine year old.
• 13:04
  person he had in mind: I was directing the kids around her, but, yeah, I was never looking for anything specific.
• 13:09
  person he had in mind: I truly don't remember giving her a single note.
• 13:12
  person he had in mind: She was just on this other planet.
• 13:15
  person he had in mind: For a seven year old Hal it was just this desperation of needing connection and needing some sort of way to survive.
• 13:25
  person he had in mind: And Harper's his way to survive.
• 13:28
  person he had in mind: Hal!- Harper?
• 13:30
  person he had in mind: - What's going on?- Hi, there, we're trying not to cry.
• 13:31
  person he had in mind: - I'm his big sister. Like Cooper says, Hal and Harper depend on each other for survival.
• 13:37
  person he had in mind: And that is never more clear than in this scene, which sees kid Hal trapped in a tire swing.
• 13:43
  person he had in mind: I'm stuck in here.
• 13:43
  person he had in mind: I'm trying to get out.I'm really trying my best to get out, but I feel like I'mgonna be stuck here forever.You're not gonna be stuck here forever.We'd just saw you out of there if we had to, buddy.- Like, saw my body?
• 13:50
  person he had in mind: - No! The tire.- I really don't want to do that.
• 13:52
  person he had in mind: - Hal, it's okay. That's the scene that makes me the most emotional in the show.
• 13:59
  person he had in mind: - Oh, I definitely cried.
• 13:59
  person he had in mind: - Yeah. Me too. I cried too at that scene.
• 14:03
  person he had in mind: The whole show is about this older sister struggling with"This is not my responsibility.
• 14:10
  person he had in mind: "It's not my responsibility to walk this young adult through the rest of his life." And to me, it's this scene where she's like, "You know what I'm gonna say to you?
• 14:22
  person he had in mind: "That no matter what, no matter what, I'm here."What do you mean?I mean, if you are actually stuck here forever.That's totally cool.If you're really stuck here for the rest of your life, I will be here too.All day, every day.I'll be hanging out here every single night.All night. I'll be sleeping on the ground right next to you.- You will?
• 14:48
  person he had in mind: - Yeah.And it'll be great. If you're stuck and stunted and can't move for the rest of your life, I will sit here and he's like,"What if it rains?"- What about when it rains?
• 14:58
  person he had in mind: - Raincoats.Hal, it's going to be okay. That's what sets us off on the journey to loving ourself, is that unconditional love from a parent or from an older sister.
• 15:17
  person he had in mind: And I just I find it endlessly emotional that that's the thing that that gets him out of the the tire is her saying,"I'll be here forever.
• 15:27
  person he had in mind: "I'm not I'm not going to leave you." In your own life, are you more of a Hal, or are you more of a Harper in terms of your role in your in your family dynamic?
• 15:36
  person he had in mind: I mean, really, it's both.
• 15:39
  person he had in mind: I'm deeply afraid of pain in a way that Hal is like, he's just so avoidant of emotions.
• 15:48
  person he had in mind: And with Harper, she's kind of living with that pain and that heaviness.
• 15:54
  person he had in mind: But I think she's deathly afraid of her little brother and her dad feeling that pain.
• 15:59
  person he had in mind: To me, they're all just dealing with this fear of emotion, and Harper is able to carry it.
• 16:05
  person he had in mind: But that doesn't necessarily mean that she's not terrified of it in her family.
• 16:11
  person he had in mind: So I think it's like that with me.
• 16:13
  person he had in mind: You and Lili have incredible chemistry as siblings.
• 16:17
  person he had in mind: When was the first time she began to feel like she could be your sister?
• 16:21
  person he had in mind: I always felt so calm around her.
• 16:23
  person he had in mind: Like I can't describe it other than like, it felt like we had spent many past lives together.
• 16:31
  person he had in mind: And when Mark came along, we all just literally right away we're like,"Oh, we were a family in a past life" and we've debated what we actually were, and maybe Mark was actually our kid.
• 16:45
  person he had in mind: And that's why Hal & Harper is the way that it is.
• 16:49
  person he had in mind: Definitely, there's this connection that we all have.
• 16:52
  person he had in mind: Let's talk about Mark Ruffalo for a second.
• 16:54
  person he had in mind: You cast Mark Ruffalo as Dad.
• 16:56
  person he had in mind: What was the quality he had that made you want him for the role?
• 17:00
  person he had in mind: - Other than him being Mark Ruffalo?
• 17:00
  person he had in mind: - He was my son in a past life.
• 17:08
  person he had in mind: I was obsessed with 13 going on 30.
• 17:10
  person he had in mind: I was obsessed withYou Can Count on Me when I saw it.
• 17:14
  person he had in mind: I've always felt so, so, so connected to him, and there was nothing like meeting him in person for the first time.
• 17:22
  person he had in mind: It was just like, oh my goodness, he makes you feel so comfortable around him.
• 17:28
  person he had in mind: And it's something about the way that he's so sturdy but feels like a kid.
• 17:32
  person he had in mind: Like he's very youthful in his energy, but he also can feel like a rock.
• 17:39
  person he had in mind: And he also just he deals with depression and you feel that.
• 17:43
  person he had in mind: And the person playing Dad needed to to have that.
• 17:46
  person he had in mind: He actually plays a detective all the time.
• 17:49
  person he had in mind: And I think there's a reason for that.
• 17:50
  person he had in mind: Just spending time with him in real life, he has that quality where his eyes and his conversations that he's constantly searching and you want to follow him.
• 18:02
  person he had in mind: I'm interested in the fact that Dad is a single dad.
• 18:06
  person he had in mind: And in your film Cha Cha Real Smooth one of the protagonists is a single mom.
• 18:10
  person he had in mind: Why do you think that you're drawn to these stories of parents who are going it alone?
• 18:15
  person he had in mind: I don't know.
• 18:18
  person he had in mind: One for my therapist.
• 18:19
  person he had in mind: I am endlessly interested in what it means to be a parent.
• 18:25
  person he had in mind: There is no denying that there's some sort of grief that I'm interested in.
• 18:30
  person he had in mind: Because it's about someone being a parent against certain odds, while dealing with a lot of their own grief.
• 18:38
  person he had in mind: Your work feels really personal, but you've said it's it's not autobiographical.
• 18:43
  person he had in mind: Hal & Harper, for example, is not the story of your family.
• 18:46
  person he had in mind: But how has your relationship with your family informed this story?
• 18:50
  person he had in mind: My family, at least, is very close, and that closeness was not always healthy.
• 18:57
  person he had in mind: And like I'm the oldest, I have two little sisters, and when I went off to college, it was extremely, extremely hard.
• 19:05
  person he had in mind: And I had a lot of, I think a therapist would call it survivor's guilt.
• 19:10
  person he had in mind: So I was an only child for four years.
• 19:13
  person he had in mind: And then my sister Andrea was born with Holoprosencephaly, which means her brain didn't divide into two hemispheres like there was something wrong with her, and they knew.
• 19:25
  person he had in mind: But then seven months in, they were like,"She's never going to walk"and she's never going to talk." And my parents, I think, naturally, were obliterated by that.
• 19:35
  person he had in mind: And now, as an adult, I know that my mom's grandma died a month before that, and then a month after that, 9/11 happened.
• 19:45
  person he had in mind: And it was a very just dark, dark time in my family's life.
• 19:51
  person he had in mind: What preceded it was four awesome freaking years, for me.
• 19:57
  person he had in mind: 'Cause I was the only child and my parents are awesome and showered me with love and attention, and then this thing happened.
• 20:04
  person he had in mind: And so I think Hal & Harper is kind of set off by the same sort of thing that my life was set off with.
• 20:13
  person he had in mind: And Harper is four when her mom passes away and very tragically, and I was a four year old who saw things change dramatically and was very worried and very sensitive.
• 20:27
  person he had in mind: And I've let my parents know this.
• 20:27
  person he had in mind: So this isn't new.
• 20:31
  person he had in mind: I can share it that I think what I was missing was they did not tell me that everything was going to be okay.
• 20:37
  person he had in mind: That's the journey that Hal & Harper kind of go on is realizing that kids don't know what's happening, and they need to be told that everything is going to be okay.
• 20:48
  person he had in mind: And I really needed to be told that, and was not.
• 20:52
  person he had in mind: And I don't think my parents did think that everything was going to be okay.
• 20:55
  person he had in mind: It built a lot of stuff inside of me that I've had to kind of unravel in my adulthood and let go of certain fears and let go of certain pain because it's not mine.
• 21:11
  person he had in mind: And my sister is my sister.
• 21:13
  person he had in mind: I think I thought of her as my child for a long time, and I've had to realize, like when I went to college, it was extremely, it felt like leaving my baby.
• 21:23
  person he had in mind: And I had some therapy session sob about how she was not my child.
• 21:30
  person he had in mind: She's my younger sister.
• 21:31
  person he had in mind: I really appreciate you sharing that.
• 21:34
  person he had in mind: It's about a dynamic that a lot of people can relate to, which is something changing dramatically in your family life and you don't really understand what's going on when it's happening.
• 21:45
  person he had in mind: And it's only with hindsight you really can reckon with the impact of that.
• 21:50
  person he had in mind: And it sounds like making it has been quite a healing process for you.
• 21:55
  person he had in mind: Yeah, it's been healing, but it's still been devastating too, because I think Hal & Harper, at its core, is about not knowing when you grew up and searching and knowing that you can't find it, and just being at peace with that and realizing that you still have so much to do, so much to heal, so much growing to do.
• 22:17
  person he had in mind: Do you see that sort of that healing process or that catharsis as a happy byproduct of making art, or is it the whole point of it?
• 22:27
  person he had in mind: I think it's the whole point.
• 22:29
  person he had in mind: There are some filmmakers who are obsessed with filmmaking, and I am really, really not.
• 22:36
  person he had in mind: If you are spending time with this family, you're having to spend time with yourself.
• 22:41
  person he had in mind: I don't want to say like, it's going to heal you.
• 22:43
  person he had in mind: I hope that people watching find a certain sense of healing that the family does.
• 22:48
  person he had in mind: And I can say that the show ends on this extremely, profoundly hopeful note, but I know that why I make things is to mine something in me to let someone else mine that in them.
• 23:06
  person he had in mind: And I don't give a flying fuck about filmmaking! What I care about is art, offering audience members the ability to dive into themselves.
• 23:22
  person he had in mind: There's this moment in the finale, Lili Reinhart, playing Harper, gives this gift to audience members.
• 23:32
  person he had in mind: They don't have to get there on their own.
• 23:34
  person he had in mind: They can watch and experience this performance in this moment.
• 23:38
  person he had in mind: And it just no matter what, it's going to take you there.
• 23:42
  person he had in mind: And I think that that's what art can do is, is hold your hand and take you there.
• 23:53
  person he had in mind: Cooper Reiff.
• 23:54
  person he had in mind: Hal & Harper is streaming on MUBI in the US, France and Latin America.
• 23:59
  person he had in mind: And if you're in those countries, all eight parts are available to watch now.
• 24:03
  person he had in mind: Meanwhile, follow us for more stories about great films and great filmmakers.
• 24:08
  person he had in mind: This Thursday, Rico will be back with another episode in our ongoing season about food on film with a look at the documentary that changed how the world eats sushi.
• 24:18
  person he had in mind: Nozawa was an old sushi master in Los Angeles.
• 24:21
  person he had in mind: He took me out to his new Nozawa Bar And he was like,"You made people understand the omakase." Director David Gelb talks about his breakthrough, Jiro Dreams of Sushi.
• 24:32
  person he had in mind: Follow us so you don't miss it.
• 24:34
  person he had in mind: And if you've got questions, comments, or perhaps just some family trauma of your own our email is podcast@mubi.com
• 24:44
  Now let's roll credits: This episode was written and hosted by me, Simran Hans.
• 24:47
  Now let's roll credits: Our editor is Christian Koons.
• 24:49
  Now let's roll credits: Ciara McEniff is our producer with help from assistant producer Kat Kowalczyk.
• 24:54
  Now let's roll credits: Our theme music is by Yuri Suzuki.
• 24:56
  Now let's roll credits: Special thanks to our friends at WBEZ Chicago who recorded Cooper and to Louis Nash who recorded me.
• 25:03
  Now let's roll credits: This show is executive produced by Efe Çakarel, Rico Gagliano, Mike Tacca and Daniel Kasman.
• 25:10
  Now let's roll credits: And finally, to watch the best in cinema, subscribe to MUBI at mubi.com Thanks for listening.
• 25:17
  Now let's roll credits: And if you've got a sibling, maybe give them a call.