Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / The Power of Performance Quality

Transcript

The Power of Performance Quality · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Being a standout performer takes technique, drive, and dedication, but it also requires your face to do some work.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Performance quality is a big part of your score at competition.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And today on Making the Impact, we're talking all about how facial expressions can help or hinder your routine.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_04: Hey y'all, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_04: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mailer.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Courtney.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is not competition season yet, sadly.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is not, but it is coming up sooner than you know it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say this around this time of year.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, can we just get there already?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not, it's not here yet, but it's very soon, friends.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Very soon.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, my competition season is actually starting sooner than you, uh than most people because I am doing a few conventions in the fall, which also have competition attached.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_04: And every time I go to convention in the fall with competition attached, I'm like, how do y'all have any dances ready yet?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's just it's mind-blowing to me that the costumes are in and stoned and ready.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_04: And as we know, most of the time it's often just solos and duo trios, not as many group dances.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_04: But we'll see.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_04: I can't wait to see the talent.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we have a really great episode coming up today, um, in preparation for competition season, talking all about facial expressions, stage presence, uh, and performance quality, which are things we can work on right now leading up to competition season.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it's important to start implementing that into your rehearsals.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget about it.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: Don't wait until you step foot on stage to start working on your facial expressions, y'all.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: It is an important aspect to your score.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_04: It is typically one of the higher parts of your score at competition than if you're in a broken down score.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_04: So definitely enjoy this episode that we have in store for you all today to help uh improve and prepare for the season ahead.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: But before we jump in and meet our uh special guests at IDA judges, uh we want to share with you all of our wonderful sponsors here on Making the Impact.
• 2:29
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• 2:34
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• 2:41
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• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: All of our judges are pre-screened industry professionals, many with over 10 years of experience in the judges' seat, known for their fabulous critiques at competitions across the country.
• 2:54
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• 3:06
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• 3:10
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• 3:18
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• 3:24
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• 3:32
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• 3:39
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• 3:44
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• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: All right, Dance World, we're back in action over here on Making the Impact.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: And we have a wonderful episode in store for you because we are talking all about an important aspect to your score, an important part of every solo, every duo, small group, large group production number that you bring to the competition stage.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_04: And that is your performance quality, your facial expressions, your stage presence.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: Now, if you're a longtime fan of Making the Impact, you've probably listened to one of our previous episodes on this.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: But go give it a listen.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: Stage presence was one of our most popular episodes that we've done in the past.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: But now we're going to have a new conversation with two IDA judges giving their perspective on this important aspect of every single dance at competition.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_04: Two talented IDA judges, and they're all coming to us from New York City today.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: The very first guest that I'm excited to welcome back to the podcast.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: They haven't been here in a hot second.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_04: Season two, episode 35, a place for every dancer, gender in the dance studio.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_04: I am so excited to welcome back to the podcast.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: Rain team into the pod.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome, Rain.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yay! Thank you for having me back.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so happy to be here.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_04: I know, and it's I can't believe you haven't been on the pod since season two.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: This is crazy.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: I'm glad to have you back.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of life.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_04: Honestly, yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you've bounced around to multiple states since then.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: And now you're back in New York City, which I'm so glad you are.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_04: And it's just uh so great to have you on the roster for so many years and supporting IDA.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that you have so much to share in this chat because you have performed and been on all sides of the table.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_04: So we're thrilled to have you here.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_04: And if you wouldn't mind sharing with the world more about you, where you grew up, your dance training, any credits you'd like to share, and what you're working on now.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I am a dancer that started in Atlanta, Georgia, where I grew up.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: I started with the Northeast, or sorry, the Gwinnett Ballet Theater first in the Northeast Atlanta Ballet.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I got my BFA at Western Carolina University in North Carolina.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then I performed for the next 10 years, did national tours like Joseph Juminez and Templar Dream Coat with somebody you might have heard of.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's kind of an up-and-comer.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know Andy Blinkenbueller?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if he's named.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I did that tour.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: I did Finding Neverlands, which you know very much as well.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, like you said, during the pandemic, I bocked around a lot.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I shifted a bit more to teaching aerial work.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an aerialist.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's what I do here in the city.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: I teach aerial arts, and I am now a certified stretch therapist as well, just expanding on past experience with yoga and all of that.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I do here in the street.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna come visit you at stretch lab.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Please do.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're in Tribeca.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's awesome.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_04: I love, I love seeing all those stretch labs pop up around the city.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_04: And for all of our listeners out there, I don't know if you have a a stretch lab near you or something similar, but it's a place where you can go where someone literally like just stretches you, like helps your flexibility and makes your hamstrings feel better and your back feel less stiff.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: And it's pretty cool.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's a pretty cool uh space.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_04: And and now you are a stretch therapist.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I love to see it.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: And Rain, you've been on our roster for probably, I don't know if you know off the top of your head, but I feel like around like six to seven years that you're that's exactly what I was gonna say.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, about I think we're in that six, seven.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_04: So you've been doing a lot of judging in your time, and I know that facial expressions and stage presence and performance quality is something that you, I'm sure, can speak on.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you didn't know by requesting to be on this episode like every season, every year, it's like, what are some topics to talk about?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is always on the list.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a lot of ideas and thoughts on this one.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_04: I love to hear it.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, can't wait to dive in with you.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for being here.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: All right, our next special guest who's joining us is also on the IDA roster coming to us from New York City.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: And you may remember her from last season, our in-person episode that we got to record in New York City with special guest IDA judges who all came together to celebrate our 200th episode.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so excited to welcome back to the podcast, Brianna Trilling.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yay, thanks for having me.
• 8:29
  unknown: Yay!
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so excited to have you on a virtual pod.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_04: We're virtual now, y'all.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: We record remote over here, but that was such a treat to like get so many judges together and just have a live recording.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was so much fun.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Brianna, if you wouldn't mind sharing with the world a little more about you.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm Brianna.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_05: I was born in Michigan, and then I quickly moved away from there because when I was very teeny tiny child, I was on tour with Billy Elliott.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_05: And then I moved to New York City.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_05: I trained at the professional performing arts school, and then got my BFA at Marymount Manhattan, where I now also teach for their daily dance program.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_05: Cool.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_05: For musical theater, I sub there a lot.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_05: I'm in and out.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_05: And then I'm also just a performer here.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_05: I'm a choreographer.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_05: I've been going to some regional theaters this summer, choreographing, and I'm still just living the life, auditioning, teaching, all of that fun stuff.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yay! And you are a newer judge to our roster.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'd say you'd been here with us maybe for three seasons.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: Does that feel right?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I was gonna say it was either two or three.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think maybe we're heading into your third season with us.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: Fabulous.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, as a musical theater performer, and especially someone who broke into uh having a professional career at a young age, being on tour with Billy Elliott, um I'm sure that you had to learn a thing or two very quickly about the acting involved with performing when you hit the stage.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm I can't wait to hear what you have to share with all of our listeners from your experiences today.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so excited.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yay! All right, let's jump into this important chat all about facial expressions and performance quality.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love this conversation and I love Rain that you brought up that this is something you like like to talk about and want to talk about.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because it feels it almost on the surface feels like a very basic, like obviously you have to smile, you know, or have some emotion.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why how is this a whole episode?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it is.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's we need to sort of cover, I guess my first sort of question to jump in is why is this so important?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not only in the competitive world, but as just almost human beings who communicate through dance.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why are facial expressions and stage presence so important to what we do?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go ahead and start if you want.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was thinking about that, and uh my first thought really came to just basic communication.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because in my mind, that's what performing is is communicating.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the performing arts are all about, expression and communication.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so much of our communication is nonverbal.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we pick up.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing research actually.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: There used to be this whole study about like 95% of communication, but that's kind of been outdated now.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: But it's they contextualize it in a really neat way.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Of information and data is communicated through words, but then uh your opinions, ideas, thoughts, feelings about information and data is communicated through tone, facial expression, how open your eyes are, like all of that is communicated nonverbally, and we're not doing monologues on stage, so that's most of how we're doing our expression and communication outside of you know from the neck up.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's that that makes the difference between a piece you remember or don't remember, just that alone, if you're communicating or not.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, I love every second of that.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's surreal.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I was talking about it the other day too to students about how we have to look at it like a conversation as well.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I was telling them, I gave them the example, I was like, well, if I just spoke to you in this monotone voice the entire time, you probably wouldn't really enjoy even listening to me, right?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, if when we start to think about it as a conversation, how you choose your next sentence or your next move is based off of what I just said to you.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_05: And that's how we should almost be like in conversation with our music.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like when you start to think about it that way too, you naturally just start to have reaction.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you heard this song for the first time and you automatically have a reaction.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_05: And that's I think what I love about the topic of performance and facials is there's no right or wrong.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_05: Like I just get to see a better version of you and a more exciting version of you the more you start reacting.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's so interesting, even being out of like performance myself.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting married.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And based on when this episode airs, I may already be married.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I may have might be right about to get married, but we're learning a wedding dance.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the song.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a song I chose, and we're dancing.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And our choreographer, who is also an IDA judge, uh, Dr.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Chloe Roberts.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was dancing with my fiance the other day.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I thought I had a lovely facial expression.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like in my mind, I was like, I feel good, I feel loving, I feel like I and she goes, You need to smile.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm not smiling.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes you don't realize what you are and aren't doing as a performer, you know, even when you are in the thick of it, like you may think what you're doing is enough, but it might not be.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so that even comes into even social dance or you know, translate into other aspects of your life.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, check your face.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: It's true.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: I I was just taking class like moments before I got here today for this recording.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I, as a class taker, have so much trouble getting into it with my performance.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like when I'm in the class setting.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that we're kind of talking about m mainly like a performance on stage, but I also think that performing in the classroom is equally as important, especially now that there's always a camera in your face and like that's practically the stage.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta perform for it.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_04: But when I don't have a reason, reason to perform when I'm just training, I notice that I have like the stiffest, most boring concentration face.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like I look angry when I perform in class.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I it's I don't know what it is.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's only when I do other people's choreography, first of all.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because I'm concentrating so hard.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like I feel comfortable when I'm doing my own, so I can kind of let loose and get into it a little bit more.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: But when I'm learning on the spot, I'm just in like concentration mode.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_04: And especially the hardest for me is when it's hip hop and tap, because oh my gosh, the tap concentration phase.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, I think it's important to recognize, like I know that that's something I need to work on.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's important to recognize when that happens and try to break the mold a bit of okay, I know I'm gonna walk into this class and I'm gonna work on my performance quality or I'm gonna do that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: And people have told me that I need to be better at that.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it's also acknowledging when and and recognizing for yourself when it's something that is hindering you or helping you.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_04: And like you said, Leslie, you didn't even know that you thought you were given it your all.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: You thought you were given your performance in that moment, but sometimes we don't recognize it.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: And it it is a hard thing if you don't have a mirror in front of you all the time, or you know what I mean?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: So just another layer to like add it into the class too, as as much.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_04: Don't get comfortable just being without like an emotion.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_04: Feel free to like enjoy it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: If it feels good to you, like give a smile, show us your teeth.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: I love, I love when I see teeth.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like I miss teeth for dancers' expressions.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just it's a sign of if you're present or not, you know?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: If if you're relaxed enough in the choreo and your technique, that's when you can tell as an observer, like, oh, okay, they're confident enough in their steps, in their form, the technique, and what's going on around them that they feel comfortable enough to add that extra layer, that finesse.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: For me growing up, the most common thing I had an anxious tick, especially going across the floor.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Every time going across the floor, I would eat my lips.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd be like, Really?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I would like bite my bottom lip.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I had a very stern teacher, and I had one class where she just picked that class.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, We're gonna program this out of you.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And she would call it out every time.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, You're eating your lip again, you're eating your lip again, you're eating your lip again.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell dancers sometimes, like, pick the honest friend who like tells you how it is, have them watch them do your peas.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have a nervous tick, like literally have them like a bell, a ring, just call it out.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because you do need you need that really awful, awful rehearsal where you feel terrible, like you can't do anything right to then like let go and like you said, come to the awareness that this is something we have to work on.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Break yourself down and then build it back up so you can get rid of that old habit to leave space for new ones, you know?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a great way to put that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I do see a lot of those nervous facial habits a lot on kids.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I I I also chew my bottom lip just generally, which is a horrible, horrible habit.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I am trying so hard to get rid of it.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: But that's something that I think people are a little afraid to call out because it does feel a little personal.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: It feels a little like too far.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: But it it is distracting when you're on a stage and you know, I'm looking at your tongue swirling in your mouth or your, you know, your your side of your your lips are curling or whatever it is that happens to people, you know, and a lot of times you don't have any control over it until you're aware of it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a really great point.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: And it makes me think about another question, but something that I notice a lot with dancers, and I think that eyes, your eyes are a really big aspect to your performance quality and even your facial expressions.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll another layer to that is are there choreographed focuses throughout?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: Are there choreographed focus changes in your choreography that your teachers gave you?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: Are you actually looking at where you're what what whatever direction you're supposed to, or are you just turning your head?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: I want to believe what's going on behind the eyes.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes I see dancers who are doing the steps, but there's nothing behind the eyes.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: And like you should have such a clear focus from beginning to end in any piece that you do, whether you're looking up and out, whether you're looking through the person, through the audience, but just being very direct and clear with where your focus is living from beginning, middle, and end of your dance.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a critique that I often give to dancers.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, you're doing it, you're doing the steps, you turned your head, you're doing this.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_04: But like, I need I I want to know what you're looking at.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: I I want to be like, what's over there?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: What is what do you see?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like I want to be thinking that in the in the moment.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I don't know if you all feel the same when it comes to eyes in performance quality.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_05: I remember, and I know she's been on the pod when I had Dana Moore in college when we did across the floor, she'd be like, Brianna, your eyes.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I was always like, What is she talking about?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm just doing across the floor.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_05: What is she talking about?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_05: And she was like, You just you gotta start now.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_05: Like, why are you going across the floor?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, Oh, well, because we're doing across the floor, but then I was like now I I'm understanding, I'm dissecting more.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_05: But I I talk about this with my dancers all the time.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_05: And I even remember in a solo I choreographed once, we were really, really specific.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_05: It was a musical theater solo with who the person was, where they were traveling, why did that person walk away from you?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_05: Because, well, if they're walking away, what's your reaction to it?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember we got a lot of critiques being like, I don't know who your other person is, but you have such a strong opinion on them.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: And for me, I was like, that's like my life goal to hear that in a critique for a student, because that's I mean, to me, that gives you lessons and storytelling beyond dance if you're gonna dance or not for the rest of your life.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, I'm always also asking that question when I'm judging and critiquing.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_05: You turned your head, but why?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_05: What's over there?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_05: Should I be afraid of what's over there?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_05: Are you afraid of what's over there, or are we intrigued?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_05: I understand you're traveling in this direction, but what's going on in this direction?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: Or even it influences every movement.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_05: You're running away, you're running towards, you want it, you don't want it.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_05: And it always sometimes, I feel like when we talk about it, it sounds silly because it is your eyes at the end of the day, but that can really be your focus can be the whole reason as to why that solo or that dance is happening.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_05: Because if there's nothing happening around you, what's what are we doing in the space as well?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_05: And so, yeah, the eyes lead everything, in my opinion.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that's the biggest thing because we're often so close too.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think people always realize how obvious it is to us at that little table at the edge of the stage when someone does that quick, just little look to the side automatically that's telling me, oh, they just checked out.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, their thought took them somewhere else out of the performance.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're not staying present on stage because their eyes are giving them that's one of the fastest, biggest tells ever, is if that eye is in the in the moment and then you see that little look away real quick.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Also, it applies to other parts of your technique too.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: I say this all the time for leaps.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: People looking down at the floor for when they're trying to do their biggest, most beautiful leap.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like where your eyes go, that's where your energy flows too.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So on a motion where trying to elongate.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: The body was trying to build height in the space.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like cutting your height like a couple feet, just because your your focus drops.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it carries through with performance energy as well.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Wherever your eyes are going, that's where the focus leads.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we as judges then look to the corner and be like, wait, what is over there?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is there something going on?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's where your eyes are telling us.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's one of the first things when people check out.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: When we lie, we look a certain direction to avoid eye contact.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, again, we communicate so much subconsciously just in this space of your eyes.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's wild.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_05: That's so true.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_05: And even in I find this a lot in duets too, where I'm like, okay, you looked at each other, but are you seeing communicating with each other?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_05: Through even though you don't get the chance to say it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_05: So like if you don't get the chance to talk to each other for two minutes and 30 seconds, I hope you can find those moments where you can really connect with each other because that's the beautiful thing about any live art, it's gonna change every single time.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_05: So I always feel at least like you should want to have those moments with your partner or with your group as well, your trio, whatever those breakout moments in your group.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_05: But I feel like that's another huge critique for me where I'm like, I can see that your teacher put these moments in here for you, and I just want you to utilize them even more.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I've like stopped talking from when I've seen two dancers just look at each other and take a breath because I'm like, whoa, this is something I shouldn't be a part of, but I feel honored that I even got to see it because it's just like your world and I'm here observing it.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_05: And it's just I I feel like people forget how powerful it is to truly connect with other people and to be able to watch that.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think that's part of why we wanted to have this conversation, because in competitive dance, sometimes there's other things that are prioritized, right?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like there's so many judges out there, I mean, so many of us included, that are desperate to see the storytelling, the connection, the artistry.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we will reward that when we see it, you know, but we have to see it.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it has to come from somewhere.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: And this is, I'm so glad that you brought up the duo because I was thinking the exact same thing.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the amount of times that I tell duos before they are about to lift.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, look at each other.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_04: What is going on?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: I cannot believe that you're just blindly going into this partnering and you didn't even connect with one another like before.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like check in with each other and tell and that immediately like shows your trust to us, like from the viewer side.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, oh, there's a relationship here.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, there's trust between the two people here.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_04: All they're on the same page.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_04: They like they know the story, they know the intention.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's what a duo is all about.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: But like you said, same thing applies in group dances.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_04: And when you were saying, Lorraine, about like the eyes shifting, I mean, the amount of times that I've seen dancers have shifty eyes where it's very clear that like either you you we need a little more rehearsal, unfortunately, sad to say, or maybe you this is your first time ever dancing without the mirror, and now you're on a stage and now you're looking out the side of your eye, like what comes next?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_04: What comes what comes next?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're not sure.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: That immediately takes me out of the performance aspect of it, because like you said, your eyes are really telling and they can really inform everything about how you're feeling in that moment while you're performing.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: However, side note jumping to the flip side of choreographer in this equation.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, I think that there are many choreographers that will create the focus shifts and things like that within the choreography.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: But I also think that, especially for training dancers, it's not a bad idea for choreographers to like really explain the reasoning behind this focus change or the reason behind why we're running in this direction or whatever, not just be like, well, I haven't touched stage left for a while, so why don't we run you over here?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, but is there a reason why you're running over here within the layers of the story?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_04: And where did we start and where are we ending and what is our goal?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like the choreographer, if can't just expect the child to figure that out.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_04: They need to lay that out to them and say, you're running over here because the the person that you love just walked through the door and you can't wait to see them.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like, create something that makes it makes them allow to connect even more to that story, and then they can execute that performance quality even stronger if they have clear intention backing up every aspect of their choreography.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I love about choreographers like Andy, like a lot of people, and I I'm a similar choreographer myself.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's not a musical theater piece, it doesn't matter the style.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Even when I was doing like sassafras, heels combos, there's always a narrative that I have that's usually connected to my experience of the music and what goes on in my internal world.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then I build the story around that experience of the music.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think the work is explaining the process of like how I got to this place to explain the choreography, and then when I'm with people confident enough to say, what is your perspective?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: What is your lens?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you were in this situation, how would you react?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's that question too of like, this is what brought me as the choreographer to this movement as you are living in this movement with this music that was picked as well, though.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is your shading of it?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: How does a quick sound draw your focus in what energy in what way?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's how you then start to turn dancers from robots into artists, you know, is getting that engagement with them, have it because I feel like the core of all of the performance note is really just authenticity.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: We can we we have we have that BS meter, you know, just in all of us.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: We we as humans know when someone is being real or not real with us, or present or not present.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just finding that access and giving yourself permission, making sure you're building safe spaces to allow that exploration.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the times, even with my oldest students, even adults still, need someone in the room to say, this is the safe space.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And usually I use the tool of being silly.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you are silly and create a safe space, doesn't matter the age group, suddenly people laugh and they relax a little bit and they feel a little bit more at ease to then play, because it is play at the at the deepest core of it's all play, it's all expression, it's all exploration, you know.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: So like make it feel like play again, and then that can free us into ways of finding that authentic connection to why we're doing the focus shift.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is a piece by Bjork, so it really has no narrative, no meaning, it's just a bunch of blicks and sounds.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: But in my inner world, in my in my inner world, I'm Katniss Everdeen, you know?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like I heard a branch snap over there, which is why boom, I do that sharp energy focus to the corner.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's bringing all of my focus, and that then motivates the movement to why I make that cross, you know.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I always want to watch this piece.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Can I please watch this Bjork piece?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm ready for it.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: The Katniss Everdeen Bjork Pope.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think you brought up a really good um sort of segue into I want to continue this part of the conversation of authenticity versus just performance over the top too much, because we've all seen those routines where, you know, they've just been told to just like slam the faces just in your face.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's too much and it doesn't feel authentic.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then that really does affect the performance quality and it affects the score.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder, Brianna, what's your sort of um how do you teach the authenticity, especially to the younger kids?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think once you get to a certain age, like it's almost if if you've learned properly growing up, it's almost easier then.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: But like from the beginning, how do we teach authenticity when you know people might be a little shy?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: They they don't are not confident in their choreography yet or their technique yet, and they're still really learning.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So this extra layer of like performance seems like really daunting.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I actually almost even find that the authenticity does sometimes get harder with the older ages because that's when life starts to shift and everything starts to change and people's opinions start to be stronger.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember when I was teaching this summer, we were doing a uh combo that was the first half of it was pretty still and very reactive.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_05: And I noticed everyone started to get a little tense, and I was like, I I obviously knew the answer, but I was like, Why are you all what's why are you so scared?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_05: And everyone was timid to answer too.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, it's because I'm just asking you to be yourself right now, and a lot of the times, especially with the younger ones too, when we're learning about facials, it kind of goes back to like program facials, what I was talking about on the 200th episode.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_05: Like they don't a lot of them don't have fear, and if they if you tell them to shimmy and like smile as big as they will, they will do that.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_05: But when you aren't given those facials to have, and I'm really asking you just to show me your actual reaction, you don't have something to necessarily hide behind anymore.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_05: You don't have that big smile, you don't have the kissy face, you don't have the big gasp, like all of that.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_05: When I'm asking you to just be real, that's when people start to get nervous.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, listen, I get it.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_05: We perform because we want to get away from things too, sometimes.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I understand dance is an escape as well.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_05: But I'm telling you, like the most the best version that I can see of this is what you bring.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_05: Because sometimes when you do this too, like I had no idea it could even look like that as a choreographer.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm so beyond pleased that it does.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_05: But I just find in general of all ages, like asking the why, even for the little ones.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, okay, so we just ran this way.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, what did the song just say there?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_05: And they're like, oh, I'm like, yeah, let's listen to it one more time.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_05: What was that lyric?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_05: The lyric said, and I got out of bed and I had the best day ever.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, well, if you just got out of bed and stood there, would it be possible to have the best day ever?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_05: Probably not.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_05: So we have to go run somewhere.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_05: Like, if you just start asking the why behind everything and really breaking it down, I'll do the same thing for the older kids too.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_05: Even if we're dancing to a song with no lyrics, I'm like, well, what instrument did you hear there?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_05: I heard the piano.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, I heard the guitar, but now let's kind of find the version together where this is what we hear, and that creates our next movement over there.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I find it's just that's what really gets them out of this like programmed land, because then they really have to think about wait, I do have to have some kind of expression here, and I actually have to understand why I'm doing it in some instead of someone just telling me like big happy face here.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_05: I'm happy because I'm dancing.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_05: I would hope so.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm like, well, that's the goal, ideally.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_05: So just keeping the questions flowing, and that's really when it starts to become collaborative for everyone, too.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_05: And that's the exciting part because I've taught so many times where it's been like, I never ever thought that it was gonna end up like this, but you doing your version of it is much better than what I pictured you doing.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like that with all of that to say, connecting things to relatable experiences for kids is a very helpful tool on the choreographer's end when you're picking songs, when you're picking themes, when you're picking what style of movement to offer to the the appropriate age dancer, which is why age appropriateness is so important, I think, in even this conversation of facial expressions and stage presence.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because at the end of the day, we have already said a little bit, and we're gonna continue to talk about it, about how we want to know what the story is and the intention.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_04: And if it's unrelatable to a child at eight years old, if they haven't had that type of lived experience yet to connect to what you're giving them, it's gonna be harder to dig out that emotion and expression in their performance quality.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_04: But if it's something that they can relate to that feels fun, or if it is sad, you know, like let's be real, kids, kids are sad, like, but just make sure it's not going over their head, because that's gonna make it harder for you to pull that performance out of them.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_04: And or or it feel inauthentic and unauthentic.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_04: It's not going to feel genuine and honest and true.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and we don't need it to be over the top dramatic either.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_04: It can it it has to read to the back of the audience, but at the same time, you know, it it it can be, I I would I would rather see a dancer really just connect and emote to what feels natural for them than it feeling forced, which is often what we see.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that a lot of times people are like, well, I don't know how to get them to perform at eight years old, nine years old.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how do I get them to smile on stage?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, well, are what is this dance even about?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_04: And do they even know what this dance is about?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_04: And why did you pick this song?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_04: Or did they pick this song?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_04: But why did they pick that song?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we shouldn't have these many questions sitting on the other side.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: It should be very clear to us, like, oh, you connect to this and this song suits you so well.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: And oh, your teacher really understands like your strengths, and oh, I love your smile here.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that should be the stuff that we're seeing.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: And oftentimes it's like, okay, that that performance quality score is going down, unfortunately, because it's very clear that like this dancer has no idea what they're talking about and they can't emote and connect to it because of it.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_05: And I think also when you are rehearsing it with a dancer, it's so important to not just like rehearse it and be like, okay, well, maybe the performance could be connected a little more, but to give them to actually show them and have them try the options.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like, okay, let's try a version where you're super, super over the top happy, where you just love this whole dance.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_05: And then we do that once through, and then it's like, okay, well, now let's try a version where maybe you're really annoyed by this dance.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe you don't like it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe that has nothing to do with the dance, but then they start to understand where they can play with their emotions and that it doesn't just have to be one thing the whole time.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes I find doing like the most irrelevant feeling with the dance actually makes something click for them because they're like, wait, there is more than this one thing that I can play with.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_05: I can have all these different facials, even if they are the little ones and they're still just like kind of expanding emotions in their book and stuff.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_05: It's like they realize there's more than one option when you just try it a bunch of different ways.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_05: I always say strong and wrong.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_05: You have to do something wrong to figure out what to get right.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Trying trying the most irrelevant things to come to a conclusion for something.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:48
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• 36:53
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• 37:00
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• 38:09
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• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy Brianna said that last bit about more than one emotion, because I I can't tell you how many times it's always contemporary, sometimes lyrical, where I feel like dancers have an awareness that the emotional intensity builds, like they they got that far.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: They know the intensity builds with the music in this, but it it always, I don't know why, it turns into like a pained expression.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm physically feeling I'm feeling physical pain, and then it they they put that expression on their face, and then the whole time they just like turn the volume up or down on that pained expression, and that's the performance.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: It could be like this truly touching, lyrical, beautiful, expressive piece, but then all you're getting is pain, no pain of various degrees.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the the trick I or the note I usually give dancers is I always tell them to grab their best friend or the friend they're most comfortable with, or whoever's most comfortable with them, and then have them tell them an exciting story.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then just like count on their fingers how many times their friend's face changes in a matter of like 30 seconds.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because even just like us talking here, our faces change constantly.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're always, especially when we're talking about things that we're passionate about, which is how it should translate into performance.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it should feel like you're performing about stuff that you are invested in.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: And when you have that naturally, your face will just begin to highlight and shadow different things in your storytelling.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: So those are I'm so glad that was brought up because I cannot tell you how many times I give that note of finding variety in facial expression.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like with the younger dancers, it's uh what I call vowel mouthing, where they give the big, the big O face, you know, where it just used like O or A or B, you know, that that's the performance.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and like I give a grace period, I feel like, yeah, first performances on stage, that's a great like stepping stone of like your face is connecting in some way.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you've just learned the alphabet, but you haven't learned how to spell quite yet, you know?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like once you get past mini petit, honestly, as soon as you graduate from mini petit into the next level, however, competitions do it, that's when I think it's okay to start having the conversation of bringing even more variety outside of the vowel the vowel mouth scenario.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because at come come seven, eight years old, humans have enough depth to know a bit more about their emotional state.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: And through excellent conversations like Brianna was talking about, where we're asking questions to get them into those spaces, you'd be surprised.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: You'd be surprised how young like those dancers can really tap into something very deep and profound.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: And varied.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's the big thing.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Varied.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because we are dynamic beings as humans.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's important an important uh part that you mentioned about what young dancers are capable of.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_04: We see dancers on stage doing the craziest tricks I've ever seen at such a young age, but they don't know how to add a performance to that yet.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_04: And it makes me think, what is the priority in training and rehearsal?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: Are we just emphasizing the importance of getting that aerial?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_04: And that's all that matters.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't care if you're if your like eyes are closed and biting your lip while you're upside down, and uh, you know, but we've drilled that like crazy, and that's all that matters in your in your performance on stage.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, it's okay if you don't smile as long as you land on your feet for your aerial.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's like, well, if they can do an aerial at seven, which is what is like kind of weirdly the norm now, no offense, but like it just everyone seems to be able to do it.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's like we can also give them layers of performance to incorporate into that rehearsal and not make them drill that aerial 500 million times, but maybe make them drill, are you did you remember to smile over here?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_04: What are you feeling at this point in the dance?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_04: What what kind of emotion do you want to bring to this part?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_04: You know, just from encouraging and reminding dancers from the teacher side and the choreographer side that we can't forget about that because that is a big part of our score, and we are all judges, and we say this all the time at comp, especially when scores are broken down, technique is typically the highest.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_04: Guess what's next?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_04: Performance.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_04: So and we've also covered this a lot, but it's a question Do you feel like that performance quality could be the deal breaker in how a dance scores a competition?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_04: Now, we just said that that those two are the highest, but what if there's a really strong technician that doesn't have the best performance quality and then the opposite?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_04: What if there's a really strong performer that doesn't have the technique?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_04: Which one do you feel like's gonna outscore the other?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've definitely I've definitely been on panels where it's a split.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I feel like they're in it, I do think generationally has something to play into that.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm definitely in the party where if there are two pieces and their scores are so closer together, I'm usually looking.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's always given circumstances to, you know, there we all know there are so many shades and hues of conversations behind the judging table.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: You really have no idea what that final thing was that tipped it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say performance for me usually is the big one because you can see it's it's like having an artist instead of displaying their beautiful work, they're just showing you the tools and they're laying out their brushes, and that's all they're doing.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's what seeing a great technician on stage is like.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, cool.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy you have so many tools.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: But what did you do with them?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's where the performance takes it to that next level.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_05: I yeah, I agree.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_05: Especially when you go to those cities where it just really is like everyone is so amazing that you really have to start looking for the small things.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_05: And I have had panels where I I felt really torn myself even because I'm like, wow, this person has amazing technique.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_05: But I don't, I'm not really sure what I was supposed to take away from that.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_05: And if there's a person who has pretty close technique to that, and I felt like I really learned about them as an individual.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_05: For me, yes, it's obviously amazing that you trained hours and hours in this studio, but it says something about the fact that you were just willing to be so vulnerable and give it your all on stage.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I especially those older students who it is hard and we start to get self-conscious, and that's when comparison starts to kick in.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, wow, the fact that you were willing to share that with a bunch of people who don't even know you, like, I really have to commend you for that.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_05: And also, like, I know at the end of the day it is a competition, but when I can see a dancer and I'm like, I don't know what you're gonna do for the rest of your life, but I can tell that you're gonna make an impact on this world because of the way that you were just on this stage, so willing to share yourself and share something that's meaningful to you.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_05: That's when I feel like I get really, those are those standout performances for me, and I get really, really touched because I'm like, you could go into construction for all I know, but I can tell you that you are passionate about what you do.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_05: So you're gonna make a difference in whatever it is.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_05: And to me, I was like, I can't ignore that feeling.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, I'm impressed by the technique, but I can't ignore that.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_05: And it just always ends up, I think, taking the total package for me.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely have changed kind of over the years.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love a great technician and I love your analogy about the tools.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of has made me, you know, reassess a little bit because you can always refine your technique.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're always refining our technique.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: No matter how far you are in your training, there's always something to continue to work on.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that could potentially be better.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Performance, sometimes that is just the moment, the day, the circumstance.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a unique moment in time that supports that technique that you already have, that like it couldn't have been better.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think I've seen more of those kind of performances in the past couple years where it's like, wow, in this, in this moment in time, that could not have been better.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: And your technique is what it is, and you're gonna fix that pirouette.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: But this other stuff, that was literal perfection.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that doesn't happen as often as I would like it to, but when it happens, that's why my performance score is gonna bump you up, you know, to the higher placement.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it you you see it in the in the special awards too.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty much every competition has judges specials.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like as a dancer going to competitions, that can be a very positive affirmation and to remember that those aren't throwaways.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're not we're not just doing this to fluff egos.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's no, there there really was something different and special.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times it does go to the super strong performers who just for some reason didn't have the strong technique of the girl who gets suspended every day in the studio because her mom owns the studio, and so her technique is near perfect because she lives at the studio as opposed to the dancer who's maybe even like helping support family for whatever reason.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just don't get the technique time, but they bring so much heart, passion, and earnestness into their performance.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Those are usually the ones getting the special call outs, not even just scores and medals, but like the judge wants to bring you, and that's the thing I want to call out too.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: I hope more dancers like really take that moment with a bit more weight.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because I will say, last season it felt very much like a lot of dancers kind of just like check out at awards, especially when it comes for judges to give a special.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I hope this can affirm for dancers, like we're just as invested as the dancers, sometimes even more sometimes, if we really resonate with the piece.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: And like I've had competitions I've gone back to where I got to see dancers really grow over the past six, seven years.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: And for some of the dancers, that's like taking them into college from like a teenager into like adulthood.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really special to see a young artist kind of bloom and develop.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, really know there is something to that, and it it is affirming that there is really good work going and you are on the right track.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you didn't get the thing.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's people out here in the world that you even if you didn't get the first place, you affected me.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And like when you think about sort of like the grand scheme of the entire world and life and the time we're here on this earth, like, isn't that better to like know that you affected somebody positively rather than you got handed a trophy?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's the why, you know.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: That should the in my heart of hearts, I feel like I would hope everybody that's the why, you know, to to connect, you know, to share yourself and to see that mirrored in the audience.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_05: And your reaction.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_05: As yeah, like as a teacher too, it's you know, you can bring back all those trophies and decorate your studio and all of that great stuff.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_05: But I think watching kids change after competitions and just the experience they even had with each other off stage and meeting new people, and maybe that kid did get that special award and they feel like they really feel that fire in them now to keep pushing and going.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_05: Like that's gonna change how they approach class and how they re or interact with their friends in class too.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that growth is something so special and just like heartwarming to watch.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I agree.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel similar, Leslie, to how you feel.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that is also part of growing as a judge through the years.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I I had a very like closed-minded approach when I first started judging at 21 years old, and I've experienced so much more in my career and my life since then, where it really helps me navigate and uh decide what type of performer I'm really captivated and intrigued by these days versus just the technician.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_04: I love a technician.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's amazing, but then you start thinking, okay, you're only watching from the neck down at if there's no performance.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_04: You're just watching the lines and and the feet and the legs and and the control and whatever it is, but there's nothing going on in the face.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, that's, you know, that's gonna hinder my score a lot.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_04: And the there's the other layer of and I guess at the end of the day, I just want to be moved by someone.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_04: I I I want to go on a journey with you.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_04: I I I don't need to understand the story as long as you know what the story is.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I want to feel something when I watch, whether I'm happy and excited and and and smiling in my seat and wanting to jump up on stage with you, or I am going through that same sad emotional journey that you are.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I just need to feel something besides just point your feet and stretch your legs, you know, like as a judge.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_04: And it would be awesome if I get to a point where I don't even have to talk about the technique because I'm just complimenting.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so so captivated by your performance that I just am sitting back and watching and enjoying it, you know, and and and commenting on on that, like, wow, what a what a gorgeous performer.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, I'm I'm so impressed by that transition and I really believe you with that run, or whatever it is, like performance notes are great to receive um from like a critique of a judge.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_04: But another thing that I was thinking about while you were all talking is I've seen this many times, standout technicians who also are performing, but it's like too much.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, oh my gosh, whoa, y'all need we need to reel it back a little bit.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like you are you are performing way too big, way too over the top, too dramatic, too.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_04: It like you kind of hinted at earlier, Rain, a little, it feels fake, doesn't feel genuine.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_04: But then that dancer's probably gonna score pretty darn high because I can't deny the fact that you were you were performing.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not knocking points off because it wasn't like I need a smile from you, like you were just giving me the biggest smile I've ever seen, and I I don't I think we can reel it back.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_04: But you know what I mean?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's it's a fine line because you're giving me everything I'm asking, but how do we tell a dancer, like, actually, like I think that this is a little too much right now, you know?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I guess sometimes a lot of people say it's easier, like, go fool out and we can always reel it back, or you know, it's it's it's easier to like tone it down versus trying to pull it out of you as far as like energy or performance quality or whatever it may be.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_04: But have y'all ever experienced dances like that, soloists or group dances?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_04: I I'm specifically thinking of group dances where it's the whole studio just like roaring at you the whole time.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_04: And it's amazing and dynamic and exciting and and powerful, but also kind of a lot to take in sometimes, I feel, especially when we're sitting that close.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, it's I've heard other judges also call it um like the decorated stop, or they'll say, like, try not to decorate your face.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_05: And I do find that it is like you were saying earlier, Rain, with that contemporary and lyrical, a lot of the times, it just starts to become so much that it's almost like pain, or it's like we're really doing like the over-the-top crying, where then it's like the body is almost starting to go with the tears because it's so much.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_05: And I think it it honestly goes back to our conversation that we were talking about earlier of like authenticity versus just telling people.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_05: And sometimes I'll be like, Okay, I see that you you do understand why this is happening.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_05: Like, we understand what emotion we're feeling, and I appreciate that that we did the work to get there.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_05: But it's just like I sometimes I'll say, I want you to just rethink if this was really happening to you for the first time.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_05: Would it feel like this?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I try to remind dancers in critiques and over um or in in class as well, that there's different ranges to being mad and upset.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_05: We have all been in such a high level of anger where we haven't been able to move our bodies and we've just been stuck in a trance.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_05: And we've also all felt so upset, maybe that we haven't been able to make any expression either.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that it it kind of goes back to like all emotions on a spectrum, and obviously how we all feel it is different too, but it doesn't always have to be a hundred.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_05: And we're we are right there, we're right with you.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_05: We understand what's going on, and I just tell people like, trust yourself, you know what's happening.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_05: I understand what's happening too.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_05: So, like, just trust yourself that the most authentic version of you can tell that story as well.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_05: And like I've said a million times, it's scary, but like I'll be like, You got it, you know exactly what's going on, and so do I.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_05: So, just like this is a breeze for you, and you don't have to show us that you're working that hard for it.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that hit the nail on something of not showing the work.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like when that happens, you're showing the behind the scenes, you're given the full series podcast about how it was made, you're like really trying to lay it on the stick.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: But when you trust, you know, if you're at that level where you're overperforming, then I think it's just a lack of trust.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: You have to trust that the work is there, trust that authenticity and presence speak louder than volume in terms of that facial performance.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if you really commit to those two things of being present, being connected, that's another hot topic word that I throw out too.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Are we connected to the moment or are we just put it like you said, decorating a face or just like slapping a billboard on your forehead, you know, be like happy, sad, mournful, you know?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's a difference and there's subtlety and it just kind of feels organic when you can tell a dancer's connected or not there.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: I I I definitely can.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I have to say that sometimes when it's overperformed, it it becomes the only thing that I can watch and the most distracting thing of the entire dance.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_04: I it is so hard for me to separate the overperformance from what's actually happening because it it just feels like a distraction to me.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_04: And it and it takes me out of it, just like how eyes can take you out of it, like the overperformance can take me out of it.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_04: And it's such a fine line because it's like, well, you're performing, you're doing it.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_04: You are performing.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: I have to give you a good score, but now you're so advanced and you're so great that this is a layer that needs to be a little dissected a little bit more, that needs to be fine-tuned and cleaned a little bit more, just like how clean your pirouettes are.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_04: Now we have to reel it back a bit and dig a little bit deeper, almost on like a maturity level of really understanding the intention and the dynamics and this and this actual story that you're telling.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: So it doesn't come across as too intense from the viewer's point of view.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, you know, it's it is hard because I do think that we want to perform all the way to the back of the house.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_04: I say that to dancers all the time.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I need your energy to not just reach me at the front table as a judge, perform for the whole entire audience, right?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_04: But then are you still shouting past them or is it stopping at them?
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that you have to find that balance of like the in-between, because if not, then it can become a little bit of a distraction and taking away from for the audience to actually enjoy the genuine performance for what it should be.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be curious to hear like what quote unquote normal people might think of some of the like if we like put a performance out there that like young dancers.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in the dance world, we are very conditioned to expect a little bit of overperformance.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just think generally people are not yeah, a little cheese, a little drama, a little, you know, that's normal.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: But for like a regular Joe, like put put on that seven to nine-year-old lyrical solo, you know, to a Whitney Houston song and she's crying and she's reaching and she's now does this normal person who's watching this do are they how are they affected?
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of your audience is just people who came to show up, you know, and they they might be a little put off by and that's maybe would be an interesting test just to see like, okay, where are we at with our performance quality here?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody bring in Aunt Susan, who's never seen your dancer title before, and let's see what Aunt Susan says, because you know it's it's hard almost to tell as dancers, like, well, is it too much?
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this just what we expect?
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I I always try to remind people too that your conversations with facials and performance, that's just as detailed as your technique should be.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_05: Performance has details too.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_05: And I think with that over emoting, sometimes it's like, again, I said, okay, I see that you understand the the range of this, the beginning, middle event.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_05: You understand that you're upset and then maybe you find joy, but like, why are you this upset?
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_05: And what made you switch to this at some point?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_05: Not just like, well, now it's my time, so I'm gonna switch my emotion on my face, right?
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_05: And I think we need to, as teachers, have the conversations of details beyond you're feeling sad, and then there's joy in that.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_05: Like, we shouldn't just when we're cleaning our dances be cleaning that technique, but we should be talking through those moments as well.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like you were saying, I think when you're when you're at that level, like you were saying, Courtney, if like we we score performance, yes, performance happened, but I think we can recontextualize the note in the moment of like how awesome performance is there.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're ready for the next chapter, which is performance quality, which is where you get to incorporate all the other things of your dancing, your technique, textures.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: We get to use those artsy fartsy terms like textures, like colors, and so to really like paint a picture and not just be like, oh, it's an on-off.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, performance shouldn't just be like, oh, performance is on, performance is off.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I know I think a lot of people, I know I was raised that way a little bit of like we all know the term of being on.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some people call it masking now if they're during dealing with like neurospiciness, but uh we all know that feeling.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think again, if we relax into it, we find our pathway into how we become a relaxed human on stage and not just a dancer being told everything to do every second of a piece, but like someone with thoughts, ideas, and opinions, then we can bring those qualities of performance into it so it's not just on or off.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_05: And that's why they always talk about entrances and exits, because if it's all of a sudden on right after you entered into completely different emotion, I'm like, well, where had we come here?
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_05: Like and I I always get so frustrated when I'm like, oh, okay, they're performing, and then it stops and it just like drops the second they walk off stage.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, oh, well, I wasn't now I'm not with you anymore.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_05: Like I was kind of feeling that for a second, but maybe I wasn't right that I was feeling that because like you weren't feeling that.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember when I was first judging, I was always like, why do they always talk about entrances and exits so much?
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't have time for this as a judge.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like, there's so much other stuff I have to be doing.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_05: But now I'm always like, wait, are we are we sold together?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_05: Are we sold together?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_05: And then that's when you can really tell.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_04: No, it's it, I they are important.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_04: We actually did an episode on the on entrances and exits last season, which was such a good one.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_04: Go get go give a listen.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_04: And there is actually a lot of talk in that episode about getting into the mindset of your performance that you're about to do, which is then going to come across in how you interpret the movement and how your facial expression and stage performance quality goes out to the audience.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_04: So it is, it is really important.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I do think that even just tapping in and thinking about what you're performing about before you step foot on the stage.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_04: I know that might be tough to do when you're doing quick changes and have five minutes before your next dance.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_04: But as you're waiting in the wings, start thinking about not the steps, because the steps you probably have rehearsed a million trillion times.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_04: Those are ingrained in your body.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: Think about that next layer that makes it more difficult than when you're in the studio, which is performance.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_04: You are now on a stage, you are now in a costume, you are now on stage by yourself if you're in a solo.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how do you command a room where there are people sitting here watching you versus you just looking at yourself in the mirror?
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_04: It's a whole nother layer that you and I was always that dancer.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, oh, I'll just wait till I perform till like when I get on stage.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's what I would always tell myself when I was younger.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I would I would absolutely deliver.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like my teacher was nervous as anything, but then I'd go out there and I'd just ham it up and I was just a little cheese ball.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like I I really turned it on, turned it on, right?
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_04: But like again, I I think that that doesn't work for everyone.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_04: Some people naturally have that instinct and really understand it and rap can grasp it.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_04: But for a lot of dancers, there's probably teachers listening being like, well, you know, there's the there is a dancer that I've been they they tell me they do it and they get on stage and they're not doing it.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_04: So what do I do now?
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that some of these tools that we said about how we can implement it into rehearsals and not um wait just waiting until we get on stage and talking about intention and story.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so the dancers really can understand that more and start in incorporating that into their training, just like technique training is an important aspect of how you're gonna make your facial expressions even stronger when you hit the stage.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_04: And guess what?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_04: You have tons of time to continue to practice because it's only October and November.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_04: We're in the fall right now.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm sure that you haven't hit the stage just yet in this competition season.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_04: So make sure that we're adding that layer of performance quality to your rehearsals next time you get to the studio.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_04: Last question that we want to tackle on this important chat is we kind of talked about a little bit about lyrical and contemporary, but uh I feel like that facial expressions and stage and performance quality exists obviously in every genre of dance.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_04: So do you do we feel like that it should uh have uh variations across the genres?
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_04: Are there certain expressions that you expect to see in a particular genre?
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_04: Or can they overlap?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_04: What are your thoughts when it comes to a hip-hop or a tap or a jazz dance versus a contemporary lyrical, which we see so frequently?
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think it informs it a lot.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think you can tap into pedagogy of especially if you're we see it a lot lately in competition.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: If they're doing jazz or specifically musical theater style jazz, and it's in that fossy kind of world.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: That is a very, very he didn't just have his own technique, he had his style and approach to what dance performance looked and felt like.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's very internal.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: One of the best ways I heard it from Fossi dancers growing up is you take the intensity of a sun and then you shrink it down to the size of a walnut.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of where a lot of Fossi performance and movement quality lives.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: Externally, it looks subtle and shaded very slightly, but it you just feel like you're getting approached by like a stampede.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of how his approach was.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas there are more social dances like street styles and hip-hop, where it was about presentation, it was about self-expression and how you moving looks and feels different than the person next to you.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: But then that doesn't translate when you're doing a rockette style, where the mingle is we all want to look and feel the same line, technique, style, and energy.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's an important extra layer of the conversation as we're talking to our dancers about not just why we in this moment picked the choreography and these are the steps and what's the story of the piece, but also this is where this genre, I wish more teachers had the capacity to ask questions and conversations about dance pedagogy and where origins of these styles came from.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: From and where they were birthed and how they grew and developed because that really can help provide the tools to give us more options when we feel like we're stuck with just on or off for performance.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: We can dive a little, it's just another access point.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like there are certain things historically with ballet where port au bras dictates a lot of where the eyes go.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're always focusing that.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: There are little things scattered through all of the genres that we can really look into to inform that performance that feels again authentic.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you saw somebody performing hip-hop style to a rocket precision piece, like you're gonna be like, okay, okay.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: Then I would I would then open if I was at a concert, I would open the program and be like, okay, where's the director's note?
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: Where's the choreographer's note?
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: Why this?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: And usually if it is that, hopefully it's an intention and a reason that they were told to explore that.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: But in this case with competition, I think it's more so we should be looking at honoring the roots and the exploration of these different styles as we bring them to competition.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_05: Totally agree with that.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_05: And like I am tapper, a tapper at heart, so I always talk about this a lot too.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_05: But like I will always give a special to a tapper who is just doing great, has a great technique, but like on top, it's just like they have nothing going on.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_05: It's like another day, and they're just enjoying it and their body just so naturally, yeah, just like cool as a cucumber, so confident.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_05: But I also think in in tap, especially, that's why like shading and textures provide so much of also what is happening with your performance.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_05: And even to when I teach the little little ones, I'm like, don't you just love stomping your feet?
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like, how awesome does it feel to stomp your feet and tap?
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_05: And like that's a different kind of smile naturally, even when they're six of them stomping their feet, of even when they like to do shuffles and just that connection between texture and shading.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_05: It is such a different performance quality where maybe those styles we aren't, we don't have that through storyline as much.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's totally possible, but that might not be the first thing we're going to.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_05: Well, then it's like, okay, well, how are my physical dynamics actually affecting the way that I feel?
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_04: That's like, I feel like a ta a talented tap dancer, it can go hand in hand with like the same conversation as what we were talking about, too.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like when we think of a technician, we often think of like a beautiful lyrical dancer or something, you know, someone with gorgeous ballet lines and and flexibility and whatever it may be.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_04: Well, the same there's technique in tap dance.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_04: You can be an absolute phenomenal tap dancer, and then you don't know how to sell it.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_04: You don't know how to sell the performance to the audience.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_04: I don't care how fast your feet are moving and how crystal clear your sounds are, but I gotta believe it.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta believe it up top.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I've told dancers this so many times when I judge them when they're uh fantastic tap dancers.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_04: I I will always remember those dancers that know how to perform with the added layer of the tap.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I immediately think of them like being in like a little tiny like underground jazz club in New York City with like like an upright bass and a saxophone and a tap board, and they have like a little, you know, blazer on and a sparkle and a foom ba-da-da.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_04: And they're just like just jamming in this, like that I'm just putting them into the scene already because they are selling it so much that it transports me in their performance.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that is something that oftentimes a lot of tap dancers might not grasp if they don't score as well in their solo, even though their technique is out of control and they're doing the hardest footwork and having seen timing and musicality and shading and rhythm and all the things we look for.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_04: But then there's that final layer for a tap dancer where it's like, oh, you can make this look easy and you're gonna, you know what I mean?
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like it just is so awesome to watch.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_04: And for me, like that really is like a cherry on top package deal in town.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_04: Well, y'all, we could again talk about this all night long, but sadly, we don't have any more time on this episode.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that we covered so many great aspects to facial expression and choreography, and dancers have a lot of time to continue to improve on this and implement it into their training because it is a part of your training and uh getting prepped and ready for the competition stage, which is quickly approaching.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_04: So Brianna and Rain, thank you so much for contributing and being guests on Making the Impact.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_04: We love having you both back here.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having us.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yay! And we always have our guests lead us out with one final thought.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_04: So if you have one more thing you'd like to share when it comes to maybe some tips and advice on what you're looking for as a judge this season on stage, or anything we missed with stage presence and performance quality at competition.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I guess my what in my one nugget, if I could only give one nugget, is just remember that you are a human first on stage.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And whenever you're feeling lost, of is it right or wrong, too big, too much, ask yourself, does it feel me?
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Does it feel human?
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if the answer is yes, then that's probably a good direction to go to getting you through that that blockage into the next chapter of discovery of another layer, another shading into how you can diversify your performance.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, you're human first and allow your humanity to come with you on stage.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: As much as we try to be perfect, there's something that just sticks when we see another human give themselves permission to be human in that setting of performing on stage, and that's when you get the round of applause.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you get the standing elevation, is when humans see other humans being human and making it look like it's okay, and then we feel safe, and then that's when we get the gold prize there.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, that was awesome.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_05: How do I even follow that?
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_05: I think at the end of the day, we know that you're here because you love to dance, and just don't be afraid to show that.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_05: I know it always feels like there's so much more beyond that, and it's so easy to get caught up in all of the million other things that are happening at competition, but I at least I hope that at the end of the day you are there because this is what you love to do, and life changes from day-to-day basis, and that's okay to see that on stage.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_05: I know it's that can be the scariest thing to present your most authentic version of yourself on stage, but I promise you there will probably never be a judge that that will go unnoticed by.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_05: And truly, there are still pieces that I can remember from years ago that I will still think about to this day that just had that.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_05: And I won't remember even what style it was.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_05: I can just remember seeing their joy for dance on stage, and that is what really touches us at the end of the day.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_05: You love to dance, so just always show us that.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for tuning in to our latest episode, all about facial expressions and stage presence on stage at competition.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_04: Be sure to follow our special guest, IDA Judges, on Instagram.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_04: You can find Rain at RainTharesALOT and Brianna at Breedrolls.
• 1:13:22
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• 1:13:29
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• 1:13:35
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• 1:13:43
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• 1:13:50
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• 1:13:55
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• 1:14:00
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• 1:14:10
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• 1:14:15
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• 1:14:22
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• 1:14:30
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• 1:14:41
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• 1:14:47
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• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Coming up next on Making the Impact, look forward to another IDA competition feature, a throwback to competitive dance in other countries, and why Lyrical should be a priority in your training.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_04: More episodes are coming your way next week.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_04: We'll see you then.