Latest / TWO GUYS IN TIES / #11 - Work Controversies Pt. 2

Transcript

#11 - Work Controversies Pt. 2 · TWO GUYS IN TIES

0:02
SPEAKER_02: You're listening to Two Guys in Ties.
0:06
SPEAKER_02: Hey, welcome back to Two Guys in Ties.
0:08
SPEAKER_02: I think today, actually, I'll admit, it's one guy in tie.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: Mitch, I like that tie.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: And I like that whole getup.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Last time I was, you were the one guy in the tie.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
0:17
SPEAKER_02: You didn't wear a tie the last time.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: All right.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: This time I decided I'm a little warm.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: I want to continue summer, even though summer's over.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: I wanted to like have my last hurrah, my last minute.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: So no tie, but I'll come back with it.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Soon enough it'll be no guys and no ties.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: We'll be in hoodies and sweatpants doing this thing.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, hopefully it'll still be two guys.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: You said no guys and no ties.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, guys and no ties.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh Reagan will be the only one in the podcast.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: Reagan, how you doing?
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Good.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how was your week?
0:47
SPEAKER_00: It was pretty good.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: Anything special?
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Anything special?
0:52
SPEAKER_02: You got a lot of emails this week, didn't you?
0:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: This workplace controversy thing.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Wow, did you read some of those?
0:57
SPEAKER_01: I felt like it.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad Reagan hinted at it last time and she's like, we should do a part two because uh it seemed like it got a lot of interest.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: I think workplace controversy is very controversial.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: It is.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's interesting.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: People have a lot of opinions.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: By the way, we love dissenting opinions.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: If we ever share something that you don't dis you don't agree with, we want to hear.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we learn things.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: I gotta tell you, I think my stance is maybe a little too firm in some cases, but I do go back to you can have everything you want if you help enough other people get what they want.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: And if we're talking about like workplace, you know, PTO or what do we call it?
1:34
SPEAKER_02: What do we call it?
1:35
SPEAKER_02: Unlimited PTO or flexible time off.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: If we're talking about that, I think it's got to be a two-way street.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: And we got a couple of responses where people are like, listen, if you're gonna offer it, you gotta offer it.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes, but doesn't the employee still have the the the need um to actually deliver the results that the company needs, or they're gonna be looked upon as somebody who's taking advantage?
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Don't you think that?
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, some of my biggest LinkedIn posts were the most controversial, where people were basically arguing in the comments.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Um with each other or with you?
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: Both.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, both.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: That's funny.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: I think anything you post these days can be controversial, but it is nice.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: And thank you, by the way, for DMing us.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, Reagan, why don't you give them our email and the DM so we can get some more controversial notes from people?
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes, our email is twoguysandtizepod at gmail.com, and you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at TwoGuys and Ties.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: By the way, are you cool if I plug that uh event that we're gonna be doing in another month and a half?
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: I want to plug that.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Can people go to that though?
2:43
SPEAKER_02: No.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: But I want to plug it because I think it's cool and there might be some other opportunities.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many more of those you want to do, but I think it's really fun.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: I think it's fun.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: All right.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: So uh we got invited to the UC Riverside School of Business.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: What's the event called?
2:57
SPEAKER_02: It's like a Dean's Advisory Council event, right?
3:02
SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna present, we're gonna do actually a live taping of this podcast.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: Is that um an oxymoron?
3:09
SPEAKER_02: A live taping?
3:10
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna tape a taping.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do a taping of the podcast in front of a live audience.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: I hope they're alive.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: I really hope they're alive.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: Um and it's in their theater in their new School of Business Building.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: They built an amazing thing.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: Have you been there yet, Mitch?
3:24
SPEAKER_01: No.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm on the Dean's Advisory Board.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: I go out there once a month.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: The School of Business Building is unbelievable.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: If anybody has an extra$10 million, it could have your name on top of it.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, but they have a theater in the downstairs, uh, kind of off the lobby that's an amazing theater.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: And I've presented in there before.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: It's got 300-ish seats.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: And so we're gonna sit up on stage.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: Reagan's gonna be there uh uh running the soundboard, and uh we're gonna have somebody in the audience with a wireless mic who's gonna take questions from the audience.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: I think it's gonna be a kick.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be a lot of fun.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: And it's both their graduate business school pro uh uh students as well as their undergrad business school students.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm fired up.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: I think we're gonna be able to help a lot of people.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's why we're here, guys.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: We want to make sure that we can help by offering advice, counsel, and what we see, what we know, what we hear from companies.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: The interesting thing is you guys are gonna go out and interview for jobs.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: You're gonna get some, you're gonna not get some.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna know exactly why you didn't get the ones you didn't get, because they never tell you.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: You never know, but we're gonna tell you on this podcast.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: And that's why I think we're here.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: That's our purpose.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: It's one of them.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: All right.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: What do we got, Reagan?
4:34
SPEAKER_02: Workplace controversy.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: What did I call it?
4:37
SPEAKER_02: Workplace violence.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be violent.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: Workplace controversy part two.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes, part two.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: All right.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: You had more questions that came through?
4:45
SPEAKER_00: We had a few, and then I have a couple that I found myself as well.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: All right.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: Are these are these just you trying to figure out what you can do at our company and get away with?
4:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing where the line is.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Reagan wants more than unlimited.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: She wants limited work, unlimited time off.
5:02
unknown: Okay.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm kidding.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: She's working for the wrong guy.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: I get no time.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: We have fun together.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: She works her ass off, by the way.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: She deserves.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: By the way, I want to say this too.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: When we brought up unlimited PTO about 10 years ago to some of our partners, there were a few that were afraid, and they said things like, Well, well, we can't do that.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: And I go, why not?
5:21
SPEAKER_02: And they go, Well, what about people that don't deserve it?
5:24
SPEAKER_02: And I started mentioning names like Sammy, our controller, or Jared, or, you know, other folks, Courtney.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, no, no, no, well, they deserve it.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: No, no, they work really hard.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: No, no, they definitely deserve it.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, who are you talking about?
5:37
SPEAKER_02: And they go, people that don't deserve it.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, rather than put up fences and barbed wire and machine gun turrets to stop the people that don't deserve it, why don't we just weed them out?
5:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's only employ people that deserve it.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: And then nobody feels resentful.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: Most of the rules company have started because of one employee.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Are you just making that shit up?
6:02
SPEAKER_01: No, but I I mean I see it, right?
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Like you think about all the guardrails.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: Some experience taught them, oh shoot, because of this person, now we need to have this policy.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's crazy.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: I think you're right.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: I think that's even part of the return to work thing.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: It's like people were afraid.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, have you have you been reading about these companies?
6:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this has been out going on for a while now, that are actually measuring keystrokes on people's keyboards.
6:27
SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you have to be that kind of cop.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: You have the wrong people.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: You have the wrong people.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: Don't do that.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: Companies, this is a company thing.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna say this to companies.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: If you're putting in those kind of safeguards, you got the wrong people.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, I think you have the wrong managers of those people.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: Tell your people what you need from them, let them give it to you or not.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: If they are, celebrate them.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: If they're not, move them out.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's about outcomes, not keystrokes.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there you go.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Outcomes, not keystrokes.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: Can I can I quote you?
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can quote it.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: All right, come on.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: Some controversy, Reagan.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Bring it on.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm ready, man.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: I got my sleeves rolled up.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm ready to go.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: First one we'll start with is being busy doesn't mean you're productive.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh, God, so much.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: So much.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: In fact, I've seen, you know, I talked last time, I think I brought this up in the last episode.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: I talked about how some of our best leaders use the opportunity when they lose somebody who's good to even upgrade that role.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: And some of the things I've learned, when we bring in somebody else who's an upgrade, they're not even breaking a sweat and they're doing 30% more than the other person.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Have you seen that, Reagan?
7:41
SPEAKER_02: Because some of these roles have been operational oriented.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: Have you seen like people just like they know what they're doing and they don't have to like run around?
7:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: It's working smarter too and not harder.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because they have the experience to do that.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: I think the best person to learn from is a person who puts in the least activity and gets the most outcomes.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: I would want to be that person.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: What are they doing?
8:02
SPEAKER_01: And if they put in more effort, they'll get that much more return.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: It's a great, great thought.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: Love it.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: All right, Reagan, what else you got?
8:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you should always be working 40 plus hour work weeks.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: Um I have a couple thoughts on that, but why don't you go?
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: I think um I'm still a big believer in it's about results, it's about outcomes.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: But I do think if most jobs require a certain amount of input for a certain output, even if you get really good.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think it depends on the role, right?
8:36
SPEAKER_01: If you're in sales, if you're in a job where more input creates more output and more reward, then why wouldn't you want to put in the full 40 hour weeks and exceed your quota and make way more money at the end of the year?
8:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, so maybe you're not in a in a role that you can do that.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: What if you're in an operation role and you don't have to do that?
8:56
SPEAKER_01: That's why I think it's a little bit different because our world is so much more the world I just explained.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: All right.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna put you on the spot here a little bit, Mitch.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: And Reagan, too.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: It's coming right back around to you, Reagan.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: If you've got a person working for you that in 30 hours can do more than somebody doing in 45 hours, yeah, I'd be happy with that.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: And you don't feel resentful, like, boy, you've got more to give.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: Why aren't we getting even more from you?
9:21
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to say.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: I feel like that company maybe lacks the incentive, right?
9:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: If you like the incentives, or that's just a staff job and we only have this amount of work, yeah.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: I'm with you, right?
9:31
SPEAKER_02: It's about results.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: And if you're giving me the outcomes I want, go live, man.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm that way too.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: I think uh I think it's knowing though, if they are doing the 30 hours, if they needed to do 50 one week, that they would.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: I think that's where it comes in for me.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, do the 30 hours a week 80% of the time, but I want to know the 20 where shit hits the fan, the company's on fire.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: I want to show up.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: You're a soldier and you're gonna you're gonna come in and be part of getting us through it.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, get on the line.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, hey, I've got some strong opinions on this, but before I opine, Reagan, what is your opinion?
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: Um I think that some people can work smarter and get the same amount of work done.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: I think you should get your work done, period.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: But also within the week you can do other things that also can make you money or develop some I don't know, some something else.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: So let me throw this back, Mitch.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: A couple weeks ago you you you said something about takers.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: What was that quote that you said?
10:37
SPEAKER_02: I mean high performers or takers.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's the it's about the what I consider the taker mentality.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Which is when things open up around you, new opportunities, opportunities for exposure, taking on something new, a new challenge or a new project, you take it.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: So, Reagan, I'm gonna challenge you a little bit.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: Rather than like try to make money in a side hustle because you got your main job done, it feels like you might be looking at your main job as just a task-oriented job and not necessarily a career.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: Whereas if you had that capacity, couldn't you try to take on more and actually become a bigger player in the company and ultimately have even a bigger career in the company?
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this is a controversial topic.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: But I think people, and I see this a lot even on social media, it's well, that's not in my job description, that's not in my pay range.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: But they don't understand to get to the next pay range and to get to the promotion, oftentimes you have to prove that you're capable.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: People wait for that.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna do that.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: That's not in my job description.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: But the people that actually operate outside of the job description, the takers who see an opportunity and take it, those are the ones that get.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: I love that you use this word taker, Mitch, because it it has a negative connotation, but the way you're saying it is so positive, and I love it.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: I really do.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like they want to take on more.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: Reagan, can I challenge you a little more with this?
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: So imagine that you're in a company, let's say you're working for me and you can get your job done in 30 hours, and then you do all those crazy TikToks that you do.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: And I know that is your dream job.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: You want to be, what do they call those?
12:08
SPEAKER_02: Influencers?
12:09
SPEAKER_00: That's not my dream job.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: I know.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Do I like making money off of it?
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Opso freaking Lutley.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: Anyone would.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: So what if you could make more money in your job by taking on more?
12:21
SPEAKER_00: So yes, but also no.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Why?
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Tell me why.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: So, how can I make my whole paycheck in one video I do?
12:32
SPEAKER_02: Can you really?
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: See?
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that is hard.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, become an influencer.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: But there might be a way to do it.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: There might be a way, and I wouldn't say there isn't.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say without looking at it, because I do think there are challenges that companies have and they need people to help them solve.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: And if, you know, I have this belief about fewer better paid people.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: If you have to, if if you're able to get your work done by hiring fewer people that are working harder and getting more done, maybe I'll take the working harder out that are just getting more done, you can pay more because you got fewer people, right?
13:08
SPEAKER_02: Think about this.
13:09
SPEAKER_02: If I've got seven people doing the job of 10, I can pay those seven people 50% more.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: That was my entire company.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: We went from 10 people to three.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: We did the same revenue last year, and our people made double, triple what they were making when we had 10 people.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: So if it was double or triple, does that solve your problem?
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: So I think there is a way.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: Now I'm going to give you my strong opinion about this.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: You asked the question was your belief about a 40-hour week.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: What the exact question?
13:38
SPEAKER_00: And said you should always be working a 40-plus hour work week.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: So I might, it depends, right?
13:45
SPEAKER_02: I do think you generally should, but I do think it evens out, right?
13:50
SPEAKER_02: There are some weeks, and we even if we're not remote, there is some level of flexibility, right?
13:56
SPEAKER_02: And so are some weeks people gonna work less than 40?
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: But if they're getting their stuff done, that's fine.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: And then they have to be willing, like you said, Mitch, to flex and go to 50 when they need to.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: There are gonna be some weeks like that.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Now, here's my belief.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: If you're brand new in a job and you're working a 40-hour week, you're probably not going to become a superstar at that.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: You're just not.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: I haven't seen it ever.
14:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't care if you're working for an accounting firm.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: We have people that apply with us in our accounting department that have worked in firms for two years and they're like, it's I feel like a slave.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: I am driving, I'm driven so hard during tax season and during busy season, but that's the training.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Partners aren't working that hard, and they might be working pretty hard in a certain period of time, but they're not working that hard over the course of the entire year.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: It's developing the skill set.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: That's what people miss.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they don't they mistake hours for hey, I I I'm at 40 hours, I'm done.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: What they what they're not thinking about is the time I'm putting in is developing a skill.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: And the better I get at that skill in three years, the less input I have to do to get the output.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: Think about it this way: if I'm gonna be a professional athlete, if I'm gonna be a professional tennis player and I want to practice and and enhance my backhand, I can go out and hit 100 balls and that's gonna take me 20 minutes, or I can go out and hit 10,000 balls and that's gonna take me most of the day.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: When am I gonna get better faster?
15:21
SPEAKER_01: 10,000.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: It's called paying your dues.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: And this is something I want to share with people.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: If you want to have the extraordinary life, I haven't brought up extraordinary in a while.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: If you want to have the extraordinary life, you got to have the extraordinary effort.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just gonna put that out there, guys.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: Don't expect great things to come to your life if you're not willing to give great effort to get those.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: I believe that.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: I do too.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: Reagan, good question.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Controversial for sure.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that one gotcha.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, let's see.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: Should companies pay people more for being in office?
15:59
SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: And I see this happen a lot.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Candidates will give you when you ask them what their comp expectations are, they'll give you two numbers.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: Really?
16:07
SPEAKER_02: I haven't seen that.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, at your level, maybe it's different, but it'll be, you know, hey, 120 for uh fully remote, but 140 if I'm coming in five days a week.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: I think people are even factoring in the cost of commute, the cost of gas.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: I even have candidates, I've had candidates who have had to get a new car too, because they got rid of their car.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I share one car with my family, with my partner, and you know, we're gonna have to get another car if I'm going in that much.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've seen that.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: I so here's where I would say I come out on this.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, I'm a big believer in I don't want you to have a job, I want you to have a career.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: And if you're gonna have a career, that means you're gonna have a career path.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: And why does this role make sense in your career path?
16:49
SPEAKER_02: And if it makes sense, you you know what I say, comp is not the first thing, it's not the second thing, it's the third thing.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: Is it the right company?
16:57
SPEAKER_02: Is it the right job?
16:58
SPEAKER_02: And then is it the right comp?
17:00
SPEAKER_02: Because the right company and the right job is gonna make you it's gonna put you on that path to having the right career, right?
17:07
SPEAKER_02: So I think people should play the long game with this, and I don't think they should ask for more.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: I agree with what you're saying, though.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, costs are different.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't agree with it.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: I just I'm seeing it.
17:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: And to me, I think the job's a job, whether coming in or not, and you can make the argument, well, they're driving out non-working hours and it's increasing their expenses.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm with you.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: I think if it's the right job and the right company, that's what changes your life.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: You don't read books about people who took the safe bet and the bigger offer.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: You read books about the people that took the leap of faith.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, why are we here, Mitch?
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Why are we here right now doing this thing?
17:39
SPEAKER_02: We're here to help people live uncommon lives and have uncommon career success, right?
17:45
SPEAKER_02: So the people that we're trying to reach, if you're listening to this podcast, conceivably you want to have uncommon career success.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: And if that's the case, don't take the shortcut.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: Don't be common.
17:57
SPEAKER_02: Don't be common.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: Don't take the shortcut.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: Don't be looking for every little nook and cranny.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: Look at the opportunity that you're given, what you're gonna learn, even if it's the wrong company but the right job.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: I've told CFOs before, if you want that C title in front of it and you've got a VP of finance, sometimes you go to the wrong company for a couple of years to get that C title, and then somebody like us goes and recruits you to get you to the right company, the next level.
18:22
SPEAKER_02: You need a stepping stone.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: But make sure you're looking at your career and you're really intentional about it.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: And don't get caught up in the little things.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: The little things stop everybody from playing big.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: Anybody who gets caught up in the little things, I see them, they they're focused on the wrong shit.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Actually, we're interviewing someone we really want to hire who's getting caught up on the little things.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's a little bit, we don't know if they're gonna accept or not, but they basically said this is the job I want.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: But there's little things.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Do you think they're listening to this podcast?
18:50
SPEAKER_02: I hope not.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: I know, I know.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: I hope so.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: Let's put it out.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: Reagan, what are your thoughts?
18:56
SPEAKER_02: I want to hear your opinion on this.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: Um I could see, I agree with you, but I could see where it becomes controversial if two people aren't doing the same job, one person is out of state and the other one has to commute in.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: I I think that's spending more time and money.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: That person commuting in, not to interrupt you, they're gonna have more reward.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're gonna have more opportunity for growth.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: They're gonna have more exposure to leadership.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: I agree.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: I gotta say, what when we are upgrading roles, when we if we have turnover in a role and we're upgrading, where are we putting those roles?
19:36
SPEAKER_00: In person.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: Where?
19:38
SPEAKER_02: The HQ, the headquarters, where they're gonna hang out with the top people.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: These are development jobs, these are the jobs that when you look at the top people in our company, our COO, who was with us for 16 years, our our CFO, they all were in office, they all fig you know, learned and got developed in-house.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's beneficial to be in office.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I I do agree with your your last point.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: What about somebody who's remote?
20:04
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, there's exceptions.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: You know, our head of recruiting is out of Chicago.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: She's the bomb, she's incredible.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: And she has been promoted, but maybe it would have happened faster if she was in office.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, part of it is that team is very remote.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: So I think it could be done, but it's especially hard if a lot of the masses are coming in the office and you're trying to get promoted as kind of a an island remote employee.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Well, I will say we are building more locally now, even in that function, but she's coming out once or twice a month.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: So it makes sense.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Reagan, what else you got?
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we have time for uh one more, one or two more.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, a leader who never changes their mind is a bad leader.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: I can go either way on this.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Same scared.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Same same.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: That's a joke.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: We both change our minds a lot.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: I I think uh I don't know if that has anything to do with leadership, changing your mind or not.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: I think leadership comes down to how you treat and inspire your people.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: I think uh there's some things you you you commit to and you don't change your mind.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: But I think in a lot of ways a great leader has to be adaptable.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: You have to be.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: And if you're just stuck on one path, uh you might not be leading your team in the right direction.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, what do we teach everybody in our company?
21:25
SPEAKER_02: One of the number one skills you have to have is be coachable.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:28
SPEAKER_02: I think it comes with the top too.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, listen, I lead a number of companies.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: I got great presidents running our businesses.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: I am learning every single day.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: Reagan, how often do I ask you an opinion?
21:41
SPEAKER_00: A lot.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean and I think you just like to talk things through sometimes.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I change my mind.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: I think I'm saying I'm a great leader because I changed my mind.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: What do you think, Miss?
21:54
SPEAKER_02: I might not be that great a leader.
21:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: But I do for me, what's comfortable is being coachable.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: And learning.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: By the way, that's part of the journey.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: That's why I'm here every day.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: I learn every single day.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: Alright, Reagan, what else you got?
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we'll do one more.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, I feel like this is a good topic.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Quiet quitting is just bad work ethic.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's a pretty straightforward one.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to me, that is.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: So here's the thing.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, I had somebody do this a year ago, not quite a year ago, and um they quiet quit for six months and they were kind of faking it.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: But you know what they did?
22:35
SPEAKER_02: That they weren't faking?
22:37
SPEAKER_02: They cash their paycheck every two weeks.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: And to me, that's stealing from a company.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: You know, at the end of the day, the companies are owned by people, shareholders, whatever you want to do.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: And if you're taking in exchange for this is what I say, have you, Reagan?
22:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've ever heard me say this.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: We, when we employ somebody, create a bargain, okay?
22:55
SPEAKER_02: And I'm when when I say bargain, I don't mean discount.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean a bargain being that we cut a deal.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna pay you X, and you're gonna do ABC, right?
23:06
SPEAKER_02: We agree that that's the job responsibilities, the scope, all that.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: And here's the deliverables you need.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes people, it takes a while to ramp, and you're paying them in advance of them actually delivering anything because you're listening to what they're telling you, and it appears like they're doing the right activity to get to the results.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: And you're cutting them a check every two weeks.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: But when they're quiet quitting, they're really not.
23:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're faking it, but they're taking your money, and that to me is stealing.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: So I have a very strong opinion about that.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: I think it's a very immoral thing to do.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: So if you're willing to quit and you want to quit, here's my advice go talk to your company and say, hey, listen, it's not doing it for me anymore.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: So I want to start looking and I want to give you time.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't know why people don't do this.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: Everybody thinks people don't do it because they're afraid they're gonna get cut immediately.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: Because most companies probably would.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: I don't think most would.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: I think we're different.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: If you work at a big company and your leader is a manager of within multiple layers of management, I I I actually I'm a I'm a big believer in what you said.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: You should definitely not quite quit.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: But I think uh at a company like ours, be up front.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: Hey, here's what I'm thinking.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Let's create a plan that's a win-win for both of us.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm still gonna do these things, I'm committed to these.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: Gives you time to recruit for somebody, gives me time to find something, and we stay close.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, as long as you don't have short timers disease, yeah, right?
24:29
SPEAKER_02: If you come in and say, over the next two months, I'm gonna start looking for a job, but I'm gonna work my ass off so that you feel like you got more than you gave in this two-month period to the company, right?
24:40
SPEAKER_02: They're saying that to the company.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: And and we all feel really good about this transition.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: But I'm no longer, my mind is not on this team.
24:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm no longer in the game with you.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: And I want to move on, and I don't want to quiet quit, and I don't want to take your money and not deliver, right?
24:56
SPEAKER_02: I can't do that.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: That's not who I am.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: That's immoral.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: But let's make this a successful win-win.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it works because it's your company, it's your money.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: They can talk to you, right?
25:05
SPEAKER_01: If you're in a massive company, to that other person, it's just a freaking job.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Right?
25:10
SPEAKER_02: So, like Do you think but but what evidence do you have that somebody going in and saying, hey, I'd like to start looking for the next two months, but I'm gonna keep doing my job?
25:18
SPEAKER_02: How much evidence do you have about people saying, uh, you know what?
25:21
SPEAKER_02: We're just gonna fire you right now.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, even some of our candidates when they resign, they get walked out.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: I think it's more common than you think with bigger companies.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: Now, when they resign because they've already taken another job, what if they hadn't taken another job yet?
25:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: I just I just think it's more of a gamble.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: Again, companies like us, people who have our values, it's different.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: It's definitely a gamble, but I think it's the moral thing.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: What if someone did that to you?
25:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take the moral high rate.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: I have a I have a controversial question.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: What if someone said that to you and you were already on the fence of if they were gonna work or not?
25:57
SPEAKER_01: And you were like, I think we need to get rid of this person, and they came and did that to you, how long would you be willing to keep them on the bank?
26:02
SPEAKER_02: I'd be okay with for sure a month, for sure a month, and maybe two.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: We've had this happen.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: I'd probably be okay with two months.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that they're saying that.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: And then if we cut an agreement of deliverables in that period of time, I now we're we're playing with no knowns, right?
26:20
SPEAKER_02: The the things that we know, there's no knowns, there's unknown knowns, there's all the, you know.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: So the the things that we know are they're gonna leave and we're gonna replace them.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: And we have a period of time.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: I can play with that.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: And as long as they're willing to deliver for the money we're paying them, why not?
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I'm with you.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: I would rather someone tell me in advance so I can plan and they can plan.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: And I, as long as they're meeting deliverables, I would be okay with it.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: I just don't know if there's as many companies out there like us.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: So maybe this is an education not just for the employees, but for the companies.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: Think about it.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: I think you're shooting yourself in the foot, and I think you are perpetuating this thing where employees have to go get a job before they talk to you, and then they give you this two-week notice thing, which whoever came up with two weeks' notice, we need to Google that and find out where that came up because that feels so arbitrary.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: Are you Googling it right now?
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna look up chat?
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Why don't you use chat?
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: Where did the two-week notice thing come from?
27:18
SPEAKER_02: Because most executives that I know, um, they give at least a month and sometimes two months, because they're not gonna leave their company in a lurch, right?
27:27
SPEAKER_02: And that's at the executive level.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: But think about it, if you ever want to get to the executive level, why not start now?
27:33
SPEAKER_02: We had somebody leave our accounting team.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: How much did they give us notice?
27:36
SPEAKER_02: Remember?
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Like eight months.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: Eight months.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: Eight months.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: That was the most respectful way to tell us.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, did they kill it during that eight months?
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: They did an amazing job.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: We got more than we gave.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: It was a win-win all the way around.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: This person will get a great reference forever.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: Forever.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: How are we doing on time, Reagan?
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Pretty good.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I found out that two-week notice, um, no one really made it up.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: It's just a rule.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: There's no rule.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: It's not a rule, it's a somewhere.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: So it's a workplace custom in the U.S., it's a rule of thumb, it's a custom, but it's not a rule.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, can we change this?
28:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to say, don't do two weeks.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: If you're doing it well in your job and you're a keeper in a company and you give two weeks' notice, you are putting your company at a major, major risk.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: If you can negotiate with your, we just hired a new guy for uh one of our new our activate coaching business.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: And I said to him, I don't want to hurt your company that you're currently working for.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: Give them what they need.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna have you for a long time.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: Give them what they need and give them what you can feel proud of doing.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: So if that's three weeks, four weeks, I certainly want you here as quickly as we can.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: But you know what?
28:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna sweat it.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: We've done just fine without you so far.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do even better.
28:53
SPEAKER_02: And I want you to come and feel really good about the way you left your company.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: So whatever they need, that's my philosophy.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: Anyone else have that?
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's I think two weeks is the customary, right?
29:06
SPEAKER_01: But I think when someone says, Hey, I want to give more, I respect it.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:10
SPEAKER_02: Do you ever disrespect it?
29:11
SPEAKER_02: What about when they want to come work for you and they say, Hey, I'd like to give four weeks' notice, what would you say?
29:17
SPEAKER_01: I would appreciate it.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: If we really needed them, I would see if we could work out a balance.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: But I would say also ask.
29:21
unknown: Yeah.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: Because I will say, even with our candidates, sometimes we've had candidates do a week and a half, or sometimes, depending on the role and what it is, especially sales, uh, they want them out of their stuff.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: And if it's not a walkout, sometimes it's hey, I'm saying to work for you.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: Like you've hired somebody, they're saying, yep, I'm excited, but I really don't want to hurt my company.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: I would respect it.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: And they might need me for four weeks.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: I agree.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: I totally respect.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: We've done okay without you.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: The the walls haven't burned down yet.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: The building hasn't burned down.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: We'll make it, we'll be fine.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: Maybe we can get you a little bit of stuff in advance and you can do a little bit on the side.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: Our HR department doesn't like that.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: We have an HR department now.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: That's weird.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: All right, this has been fun.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: Hey, I like workplace controversy.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's cool.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't think we're gonna do a part three for a while, but we'll definitely come back to this for sure.
30:09
SPEAKER_02: Hey, Reagan, tell people again how they can send their controversial notes to us.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: You can email us at two guysandtize pod at gmail.com or DM us on Instagram and TikTok at Two Guys and Ties.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're all over TikTok.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Mitch, you had like a million views on what that one thing, didn't you?
30:28
SPEAKER_02: I can't believe it.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: We're lying, by the way.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: But check us out on TikTok, check us out on Instagram, send your emails to us, your questions.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: By the way, we're still looking for somebody.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: I think we've actually got a couple folks that are interested, but we're looking for kind of the right person that we can take on that dream job journey.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: So, um, and there's probably gonna be a handful of folks that we do that with.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: So if you're interested in figuring out what your dream job is and how to go about doing it, we'd like to help you.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: We know it works, we've seen it.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: All right.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: Thanks everybody.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, guys.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: Thanks.