Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / This Is Why Your Dreams Haven’t Happened Yet: Morgan Radford (NBC News) on the Rejection Letters She Kept + the One Yes That Changed Everything

Transcript

This Is Why Your Dreams Haven’t Happened Yet: Morgan Radford (NBC News) on the Rejection Letters She Kept + the One Yes That Changed Everything · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: And who says so? Come curious, dig deep, and join
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the conversation. It's time to question everything. Who in your
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: life sees you the real you, like if they threw
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: on one of those pairs of X ray glasses from
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the back of a comic book sees you.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: It just happened to me the other day.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I was in New York and I was on the
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: rooftop of restoration hardware at the restaurant having an iced
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: tea with my friend Tommy, and we hadn't seen each
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: other in a while. We were catching up on life
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and love and the pursuit of happiness, you know how
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: it goes. And he asked me how I was feeling,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: and I told him the truth, which I will tell
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: you right now. I'm great, I'm really happy, I'm on
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: my path whatever that is. It feels authentic to me.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: But I'm a little confused because my path looks different
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: than a lot of my friends, most of them. I
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: really want kids, but I don't know if I am
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: craving a partner, and do I actually feel that way,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: or do I feel that way because I haven't been
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: with anyone who makes me want that. And then I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: tell him this story about a date I went on
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: where the guy told me he was working on his
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: masculinity and that really sent me into a dale spin.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: And I told him I realized after that date that
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I'm not the problem anyways. I keep rambling right, and
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: he listens, and he listens, and then I stopped talking
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and he pauses and he says, Danielle, you are definitely
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: not the problem, my dear, you are and have always
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: been enlivened by your own path, whatever that is Danielle's path,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: and that's all there is to it. I exhaled, and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: then I kind of wished I had a Kashmir sweater
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: to throw over me because I felt that naked. And
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: that scene now, four years ago, I was scrolling Instagram
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: and I watched today's guest give a speech at a
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: full Bright dinner she opened with a Zulu word, saw bona.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean hello, it doesn't mean how are you?
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: It means I see you.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: And the more I.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Learned about our guest, Morgan Radford, the more I realized
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: saw Bona isn't just how she opens a room.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: It's the question her whole life has been asking. You
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: know Morgan from NBC News.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: What you don't know is that before the Network, before
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the Full Bright, before Harvard, before Columbia, she got rejected
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: from every local news station from here to Juneau, Alaska,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: and she kept some of the letters to prove it.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: But now Morgan has written her debut novel, Now Then,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and the jacket on the book will tell you it's
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: about a Harvard student falling in love while uncovering her
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: mother's past fleeing the Cuban Revolution. What the jacket won't
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: tell you is that it's really about a question. Morgan's
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: great grandmother, a Jamaican Cuban woman building a life in America,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: never stopped asking. And it's the same question Morgan is
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: now asking on behalf of her own daughter.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I will have failed if I silenced the question that
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: bore me, and my whole is my childhoole, is my
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: child seen as whole? Is our family seen as whole?
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: And certain spaces and certain industries and certain companies like
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: are you seen? Are you valued? So that's what I
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: took from these powerful women before me. They were never
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: afraid to ask the question, and they weren't afraid to
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: act on it.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: So today Morgan and I get into journalism's identity crisis,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the cost of moving through institutions that don't always see
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: your full humanity.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: I remember how chilling and how deeply embarrassing it was
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: for me, and that it happened in my home state.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: And I remember how small I felt, like this woman,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: you know, successfully made me feel small.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: And the version of being seen we might only ever
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: get from ourselves.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Dreams aren't something you have. It's not a passive process.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Dreams are something you build. So while I'm saying it
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: takes one yes.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Right, Morgan is one of those people who makes you
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: rethink the way you see the world in real time.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: This is a conversation about dreams, the ones we inherit,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: the ones we defer, and the ones we decide no
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: matter what, are worth building. I'm to question everything with
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Morgan Radford. So Morgan, I have long respected you as
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: a journalist, but I will never forget the moment that
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I felt so heartened by you as a human being.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I've never told you this. It was twenty twenty two.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: You posted a video on Instagram. You were giving a
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: speech at an awards dinner. It was for the one
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: to World Fulbright Awards dinner. You were wearing this beautiful
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: pink dress and you said hello to the audience. Do
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: you remember what you said?
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Probably salbona, hello, bonjour, probably if I if I recall.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: It wasn't in that order. But yet that's exactly what
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: you said.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: And I'd never heard the word salbona before one I
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: would love for you to share what it means, but
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: also what it signed to me was you were.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Such a full hearted person. Will you share what that
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: word means?
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: First off, I want to say I really received that,
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: and I really appreciate that, and I also would appreciate
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: you not make making me cry on the first question.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: That means a lot to me, And it means a
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: lot to me because it means that you see me,
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: which is what salbona means. Salbona means I see you.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: I lived in South Africa for a year, and I've
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: always found it, of all the world languages, the most
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: beautiful greeting, to literally come across another human being and
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: let them know that you see them. What could be
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: more profound than that? And I think the very essence
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: of who I am and what I was brought to
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: this world to do is to be inclusive and to
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: make space for other people and to make sure that
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: they feel seen. And that's part of why I do that.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, probably the through line for everything that
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I do. And so I appreciate you, even noting that's
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: ever said that.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I think about it to this day, I don't know
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: four years later, because in journalism, especially at the network
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: news level that you're at, a lot of it is.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: And it's because it has to be.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: It is about a great SoundBite, and it is trying
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: to go after a story. And I worked in local news,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: and when I was doing that, I found myself wanting
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: to make sure that I made people feel seen, even
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: though I knew I had this other job to do.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: That they didn't really see.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: It's another pressure.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I saw how much that meant to you.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think, Look, I think our industry
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: is journalist is finding its way. I think we are
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: in a really critical, quite urgent moment, and the internal
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: optimist in me thinks that this is a good renaissance.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: This is a good moment for us to reinterrogate who
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: we are and why we do the work that we do. So,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: you know, look, the sound bites, they're going to come,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: they're going to go. You probably don't remember half of them.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: But the work beneath the story, what the story taught you,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: How the story made you feel, whether you felt included
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: or excluded, If you understand the why and the how,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: not just the what, this is our time to figure
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: out what our industry will be in the next five, ten,
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: fifteen years.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: I completely agree with you.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the first time you wanted to become
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: a journalist, Like when you got that feeling?
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: You asked that question and it gave me the feeling back.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: I remember exactly where I was. I was an intern
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: at CNN in Atlanta. I was about to move to
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: South Africa, but I didn't have a job for like
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: you know, ten or eleven months, because the South African
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: school year begins from January to December. So I've graduated UNI, okay,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: and I had this dead time, and I was like
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: kind of depressed because I had graduated from college, and
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: you know, the American dream is sold to you that
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: when you go to college, you come out and you
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: have all these job prospects and you can be whatever
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: you want to be. And my friends were coming to
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: New York. I'm from the South, and my friends were
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: coming to New York and they were making these like
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: ungodly salaries that I had never heard of, working in
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: investment banking and doing all these things. And I had
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: this dead time. I knew I would go be a
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Fulbright scholar, but the truth is I had partially done
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: it because my father is a first generation college student
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: and he was like, you have to go straight through school.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: And I didn't really want to go to law school.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: But I knew if I had done this thing, but
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: it would kind of get him off my back. And
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: it was like formal enough, right, And so my family
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: had just moved to Atlanta from Carolina and I applied
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: for this internship. I was frankly like too old, I think,
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, I already graduated school. And the first day
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Danielle that I walked into that studio. It's like out
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: of a cartoon when you hear the angels in the sky,
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: oh you know, yes, and the lights and the activity
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: and the buzz and the bustle. It was so contagious.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: And I remember, I mean my shift was started at
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: two am. I was essentially like taking out the trash
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: and like, I mean, I was, you know, I was
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: just in the building.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: But I think that was a good career lesson for
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: me because it wasn't about looking at who the highest
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: person on the team was and wanting to do that
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: if you are the lowest person on the team. I remember,
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: this is back when internships weren't paid. Yes, so like
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: when you're doing this for free ninety nine at two
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: am in the morning, like driving a JELOPI it right,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: and you love it that much. I knew it was
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: exactly where I wanted to be, and I set my
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: sights on it, and I asked people like how do
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: you go from like this to that? Like how do
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: you get inside the screen? And it seemed so sort
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: of like a protected class, something so unreachable, Like, you know,
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: I wasn't famous. I didn't come from some uber wealthy family.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I wasn't particularly connected. I'd actually never met a journalist.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: I didn't write on like, you know, the Harvard Crimson
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: or anything, and so I just really dedicate my time
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: just figuring out how I could make a way.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I remember having a meeting with a woman named Nancy Han.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, and well.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Do you know this story? Is that why you're saying
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: her name?
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: No, but it relates to you. So I had a
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: meet I went like at some agent I had it.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I don't even remember at the time. I have a
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: meeting with Nancy Han. It was right after you had
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: been hired. And she said to me, do you know
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: who Morgan Radford is? She was made to be a journalist. Wow,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: And I'll never forget that.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: I have a chicken skin? What do you call goosey? Yeah?
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: And as I was like I was, as I was
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: digging into your background for this interview, I was like, oh,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I know what Nancy means.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: It was written in the stars for you.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: Do you know why that's so crazy? You said that?
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Tell me every time I talked to a young journalist,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: I remind then it only takes one year, yes, okay,
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: to change your stars. Nancy was my yes.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: She was your yes.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: She was my yes. And someone asked me this in
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: an interview. They were like, who's your yes. I was like, well,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: it's this woman named Nancy Han and she is she
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: the one that hired you at She know even better
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: she I was hired at ABC by a woman who
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: said we'll put you on air. But you know, this
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: is a tough industry. It didn't really happen. She wasn't really,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: you know, fulfilling this promise. And I went to Nancy
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: and was like, how can I learn? Just like like
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: just humbled myself before this soul, but I was like,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: how can I learn? How can I you know, if
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: someone's sick, can I come in it? Because she was
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: running I believe it was ABC News now at the time. Yeah,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: And she said, yeah, come in and every Friday on
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: her lunch break, she taught me how to write, which
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: is the skill for any journalists. I mean that even
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: in television, Like I think it's an undervalued skill, but
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: it's the skill that carries you. And she said you
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: cannot fail because if you fail, it looks bad for
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: all of us. And I heard everything in that statement
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: that she couldn't say that she was trying to say
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: that she. I mean, when I came back from Atlanta
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: with a bad perm and a bad hair cut, she
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: was like, ooh, let's rerack that try again, Like she
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: had my hair right, she.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Had your back.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: She had my back, And I think about that was
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: only a cost to her, right, Like there was no
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: reward for her taking this. How old was I twenty?
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Sound like under my belt?
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: But she believed.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: But she believed. And so even when you say that
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: it's it's such a I never forgot what she did.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: And I always try to be someone's fancy han.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I've heard you say that you really enjoy mentorship.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: What do you love about it?
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: I think it's seeing the seed implanted, like when you
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: see the kid realize they're worth it. Because I think
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: this industry is built on nose, right, Like I don't
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: believe you can do this work. You didn't, Yelle, without
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: having experienced nos You wouldn't have the empathy to ask
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: the questions you ask if you had an experienced nose.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: I only created this pub because I kept getting nose.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: And look at where you are, and that's the point.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Like I think these younger people come into this world
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: and to this universe, to this industry, you know, big
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: eyed and bushy tailed, and they're excited and then they're
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: like crushed by these people who maybe it's some abuse
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: of power, maybe it's someone who didn't get what they wanted.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: There's no reason to be unkind to someone who's starting out,
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: there's no reason. But I think there are people who've
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: experienced that. So I think to be able to be
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: the person that reminds someone of their divine worth, I
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: mean that's part of being inclusive, right, I mean that's
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: part of why we're here.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Did you feel excluded growing up? Is this coming from
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: a deep place?
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: I think at times, and I think I still do,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: and really absolutely.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Is it too deep to ask you nowhere?
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: You know? I think when I was younger, having to
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: sort of shape shift for even adults in sort of
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: exclusively white spaces, I think that breeds a sense of flexibility, right,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: But it also probably breeds a sense of like hypermaturity
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: that you shouldn't as a kid, have to take on, right,
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: the weight of exceptionalism, Like you are the best black student. Well,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: I may I have been the best student, but you
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: always kind of put this qualifier of surprise, and I
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: think navigating that is real, and I think even currently right.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, the funny thing about the isms that you
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: feel that exclude and the phobias, whether it's transphobia, homophobia, racism, misogyny,
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: is that you can see them and feel them before
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: anyone says them. If you're part of any minority group,
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: the data is already there before someone has to explain it.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: We can look at as any minority member. We can
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: look at your wedding photos, we can look at who
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: you interview, we can look at who occupies your c suite,
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: and your values are evident, right, And so you know
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: I'm currently the only in many spaces in which I operate,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: and in twenty twenty six, and a city is diversus
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: New York in some spaces, that is a choice. If
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: you are choosing to have a homogeneous C suite, if
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: you are choosing to have a homogenous senior leadership team,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: if you are choosing to have a homogeneous wedding party,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: that's a choice, right. My grandfather was a Baptist preacher,
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: and he used to say, don't ever look at who
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: someone has lunch with. Always look at who they break
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: bread with at dinner. That tells you where their values are.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: And so I watch I see where people break bread
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: at dinner, and I don't trust people to do in
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: corep rich spaces what they don't do in personal ones. Yeah,
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: if you haven't been in a practice of being open
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: to the world, that's all we're asking.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: No one's saying like, go out and find a friend
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: with blue hair to hit a quota. No, it's like,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: are you open? You know, like I would go to
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: weddings of my friends who graduated from UNI and I'm like, dude,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Harvard is thirty percent Asian. You don't have one Asian
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: friend who you had something in common with in your
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: you know, lit b class. That's kind of different. If
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: you're open, you should be open to the world. And
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: so I think sometimes for people who aren't open, that
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: can be a shocking thing. I was talking to someone
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: about my book recently and they said, well, you know,
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: one of the things is it might feel like it
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: was an interesting sort of They liked it, but they
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: had the slight criticism they said was it was too diverse.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: And I was like, well that's interesting. They're like, yeah,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: you know, I got this black Cuban girl and this
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Korean roommate and this Indian love interest and this like
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: half African love and I'm like, well, yeah, that that
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: is my actual life though, so it wasn't like, you know,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: I concocted it, right, like those are those are real
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: people in my in my real lived life. And so
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I think for people who perhaps aren't open to a
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: real lived life with texture, and of all people that
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: can be disoriented, it could be learning opportunity if you're
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: open for it. But I think that point of letting
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: everyone feel seen is probably core from that place.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: You had this very particular upbringing.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: In my mind as well, because you are so many
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: things right, and I think that's so evident in your book.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: It's about, sort of on the surface, this Harvard student
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: who falls in love all the while uncovering her mom's
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: secret past fleeing the Cuban Revolution. And it's through these
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: letters that her mom is writing her. And as you
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: mentioned just now, it's loosely based on your life. I'm
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: curious where fact stopped and where fiction started.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: I think you captured it perfectly. Loosely based is accurate
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: where it stopped. You know, my mother is born in America.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: She is not Cuban at all. It's from my father's side,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: So I sort of inverted my father's history story with hers.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Because Jamicon and Cuban.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Yes he is. And I did that because I really
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: wanted to explore the mother daughter dynamic. That was really
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: important to me, because man, I started this book after
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: having a kid and a daughter and a daughter. Yeah,
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: and motherhood is the single most expansive thing I've ever done.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: It is the single most natural thing I have ever done.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: This is also the most healing thing I have ever done.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Everything you just asked me about where there are places
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: where I feel like I didn't belong. I am actively
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: recreating spaces of inclusion for my daughter. And when you're pregnant,
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: you know, and you're waddling around, people stop you at
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: home goods and be like, oh my god, girl, you're
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: never gonna sleep. But no one tells you how much
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: fun you're about to have. No one tells you how
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: healing this is. You think about and ruminate on all
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: the ways you can get it wrong, But what if
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: you get it right? So, like, you know, my kid's
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: best friend Korean? You know kid, Like you know she
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: she speaks Spanish exclusively, but she's you know, learning English,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: and she she tries it out to build friendships. And
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: I was telling her a bet. She wanted to hear
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: bedtime story about Princessaadelena Princess Adelana the other night, and
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: she said, and is there a wolf you know in
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: the story? And I'm like, yeah, there's a wolf. I said.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: The wolf was howling because people thought the wolf was scary,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: but Princeesa Adelena approached the wolf and said, I'm not
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: scared of you wolf. It's okay. I'm going to be
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: your friend. And would you like to walk with my friends?
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: And she's like, oh yeah. So the wolf walked with
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: them and they were all friends together. And so even
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: teaching her to meet difference with compassion and curiosity, you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: that's my life's work, and to do it with this
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: child and watch it stick is just the most exciting, healing,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: fulfilling circle.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: But it's almost like you're reparenting yourself at the same time.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, which is interesting because like when you ask,
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: you know, you were these different things. My parents were
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: so awesome. I get this from them. You know, they
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: were front and center before you know, modernity struck. They
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: were front and center on LGBTQ plus issues, front center
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: on having people break bread in our home. They could
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: explain different experiences internationally, taking us internationally. So that and
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: my mother was always clear to teach me that, you know,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: minorities is relative. You may be a minority in this space.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: You're a heterosexual woman, making you a majority in the
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: vast majority of spaces in which you operate. Right, you
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: can get a Valentine's card made by Hallmark for you.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: That is not something that some of her friends get
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: to do or her brother got to do. Right, And
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: so yeah, I think like reparenting for modernity, right, like
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: reparenting in this new world. Yeah, it's exciting and it's
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: a challenge and it's fun, right.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: In the book, Lily gets this letter from her mom
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: on the first day at Harvard where she describes being
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: an immigrant parent as quote and impossible calculation. You write,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: is the life we want worth risking? The life we know?
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: When you wrote that line? Were your mother's words in
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: your mind? Where did that come from? Because I found
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: that to be one of the most powerful quotes in
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: the book.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Thank you, No, that was mine. Yeah, that's how I
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: feel that's how I feel. I think it's how I
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: feel because it's what I take. That's what I took
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: from the women before me. Okay, and part of that
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: matrilineal descent, Like, yes, my dad's families Jamaican Cuman, but
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: it was because his grandmother came here. It was because
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: his grandmother was this you know, tall, mixed race black
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: woman born in Jamaica who said, I'm going to live
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: in three countries in my lifetime, and I'm going to
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: have babies and I'm going to show that like she
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: never stopped asking where can we go to behole?
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: WHOA I thought you were going to say what if?
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: But where can we go to be whole? Is a
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: very specific question. Where can we go to be whole?
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: Why was that the question? Where can you go where
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: you're not three fifths of a human? Where can you
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: go where you can be seen for who and what
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: you are and what you have to offer? Where can
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: my kids have the best opportunity? And you know, I
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: looked at my husband, who's also the product of immigrants,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: and I said, hey, I'm never I will have failed
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: if I silenced the question that bore me. I'm comfortable now.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: And what many will argue is just you know, the
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: land of opportunity. And yet I have to ask the
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: question even if the answer stays the same. I cannot
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: be afraid to reinterrogate. And my whole is my child?
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Whole is my child seen as whole? Is our family
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: seen as whole in certain spaces and certain industries and
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: certain companies and certain right like are you seen? Are
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: you valued? So that's what I took from these powerful
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: women before me. They were never afraid to ask the question,
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: and they weren't afraid to act on it. So who
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: am I to stand on their shoulders and suddenly become
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: afraid with so much more? I have so many more
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: resources than they had. Yeah, And so I think that
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: is the question, That is the calculation that as cogent, thoughtful,
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: responsible people, we should be asked.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I recently had this experience, Morgan.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I'm Jewish and my grandmother's a Holocaust survivor my mom's
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: side of the family, all our survivors, and I got
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: asked to write a speech, and it made me do
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: all of this excavation that I really.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Would not have otherwise.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: And I came to the idea that I think I
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: had hidden a lot of my Jewish identity or not
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: not been loud about it because of some of the
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: stories I heard growing up. It was like, this is
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: something that we're quiet about and have only recently been
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: able to come into Jewish pride. And that writing experience
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: was so healing for me.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: It was so powerful.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Out of all the things I do, I got paid
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the least to do it. It was so much work
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: and it was my favorite thing I've done this year.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Share that to ask you, when did you know you
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: had to write this story? Because it was coming from
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: such a deep place in you.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: I want to go back. Okay, I'm happy to answer
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: your question, but I'm want to be because what you
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: said is so important and I want to tell you
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: it is never too late. This binary that society in
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: this country often forces us into black or white Jewish gentile.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: I mean it is categories fail us, categories fail us
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: as humans.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Well that's a theme in the book.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: In the book. Yeah, but I think for you like
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: that is so powerful that you can come to it
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: however you choose to come to it at whatever age
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: in which you come to it. And you know, Jews
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: and blacks we have a lot in common and sort
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: of our story and our history of resilience. And I
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: think about that where you know, in blackness, we didn't
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: have as much range of choice, right, I mean in
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: terms of like hiding or not hiding who we were. Absolutely,
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: but you know, my blackness is what made me so empathetic.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: My Latin is what makes me so empathetic. It allows
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: me to imagine myself inside the world of other people.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: And my mom because at the time in which she
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: grew up, her mother was part Jewish and she was
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: you know, bullied during this time in her life and
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: called little Juwe girl as she's trying to walk to school,
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: and just you know, the things that we know about
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: in our communities. And I always wanted to like no more,
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: learn more and was in some cases hesitant in some
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: cases can leaning. My brother was much better about like
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: leaning in and understanding. Because the point is, I think
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: we owe it to ourselves to be able to ask
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: those questions, to be able to ask the hard questions,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: whether we're eighteen or twenty eight or fifty five, right.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: So I'm just I really commend you on taking the journey,
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: like letting yourself flow into the journey, and I hope
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: that more people give themselves the freedom to do the same.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that. It means a lot to me.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: And also, I think we're so lucky that our work
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: sometimes mandates that we excavate. Otherwise you have to really
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: carve out the time to do it.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know when you took the time to
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: write this.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Book, because I remember years ago watching you on Instagram.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Every single day you were on a different airplane.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: True, when I was writing.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: So is that when you were.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Because you know, books come out two years after usually,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: so you.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Were writing while you were on the road. Oh yeah, no,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I Morgan, you must have been working fourteen hour days.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: How did you have time to write?
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: Too much fun? Danielle, it was too much fun? Oh
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: my god, it wasn't like I mean, I never thought
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: I would write a fiction book. I met the book
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: agent preparing to talk about a non fiction project because
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: I'm a journalist, that's what you expect. And after two
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: hours meeting, at the very end, she looks at me
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: and she was like, you know, Morgan, if you ever
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: did fiction, that would be like, that would be hot.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: And I said, can I tell you something and I
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: told her the story of the real life Victrum and
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: what had happened in college and posts the romance. And
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: when I was done, it was the first mile I'd
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: seen in two and a half hours at this point.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: And she's like, that's it, that's it, that's the story.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: And she goes just like in everything, there's a time
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: for books, you'll write your nonfiction, but this is the
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: time for this story. And so I got to work.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: My kid was gosh, I don't know how many months old.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: My husbands sleep trained my baby from seven thirty to
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: ten thirty. After she had gone down, I just wrote.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: I couldn't stop writing. It wasn't even that I was
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: like trying to write. I couldn't stop writing. So I'd
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: be on the plane like as soon as they write
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: before after they called, you know, bored military veterans like
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: I closed my laptop and then get back on on
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: the plane. I would do it. In hotels, I would
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: do it. I remember being like Montana on a story
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: with barely any WiFi, and I would just use my
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: you know, like a word processor, and it.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Was it flows through you.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: It was the most fond then, you know.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: So I've often heard from book agents. You have to
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: write the book you least want to write. Is that
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: what you felt in that meeting? Like it was sitting
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: so beneath the surface? Or did you really want to
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: get this out?
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: I wanted to get it.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: You wanted to I wanted to get it out.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: You spent your entire career telling other people stories. What
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: did it feel like to put some of your story
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: onto the page?
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: Deeply vulnerable? It still feels deeply vulnerable. Yeah. Do you
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: know how nervous I am for mafif like, do you
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: know how nervous I how my people actually read it,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: I'd be like, wait, did this happen to you? It's
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: a great book, Thank you. I'm incredibly nervous. Oh there's
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: one scene. There's a scene in the book where people
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: would assume it was the hardest to write, and it wasn't.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, the hardest scene was actually this conversation between
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: these two lovers, and it's almost like verbatim as I
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: remember this conversation happening in real life not too many
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: years ago. I mean, okay, this is I've never said
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: this before, but the night that this love interest from
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: college resurfaced twelve years later and just said, Hey, can
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: we get coffee? And of course I'm like telling my husband, Hey,
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: you know, do you mnd have coffee with this old friend?
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. He's like, yeah, dude, fine, Like you know,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: we went to college together, so we have a lot
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: of similar friends and I know women he's dated, right,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: And I meet this gentleman for coffee and it was
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: so clear that he was processing in real time what
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: had happened twelve It was like the breakup conversation that
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: should have happened twelve years ago that I was not expecting.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: But there's something as unexpected as it was, there's something
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: like beautiful about another human being holding this reality with you,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Because if he hadn't said it, I would have just
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: been in my own mind thinking this had happened. This
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: is how I metabolize this experience, right, But having someone
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: hold that reality and remind you that you're not the
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: only person in the world who holds it, there's actually
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: something beautiful and the most beautiful thing about him, and
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: that entire experience was that he saw me, so he
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: was able to tell me. And here you have this
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: British Indian from Yorkshire and this black Cuban girl from
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: North Carolina and a public school who met on the
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: grassy knoll of a university, I mean, thousands of miles away,
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: nothing to suggest that there was anything in common. He
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: saw exactly who my parents had raised. He saw exactly
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: who my parents had raised. That makes me emotional, and
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: that that meant so much to me to be seen
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: in that way. I wasn't a box to him. I
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: wasn't He didn't now, and that, as you see through
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: the conversation of the book, like there were some boxes
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: I was accustomed to as an American, that not being
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: able to see was also childlenging, right, And so to
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: have someone twelve years later have this conversation with you, girl.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: I went home that night. I took a pregnancy test
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: and it was like the biggest by my husband. Yeah,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: and I and I just I thought of and the
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: smilism of that, right, Yeah, what if that makes you emotional?
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: I know what makes me emotional, but what if that
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: makes you emotional?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Wow, I don't know if it's a me thing or
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: a storyteller thing, but I think I and we have
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: spent our lives living in other people's stories. And you've
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: done breaking news for ten years. I did breaking news
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: for two years. And when you're doing news or journalism
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: in any capacity, you are I think removing your feelings
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: from the presentation of it. Oftentimes it's required. And I
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: often think to myself, are people who are good at
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: compartmentalizing drawn to this work or does that come as
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: a muscle because of the work.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit of both.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: But I feel that so few people have seen who
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: I am. And when you said I was not a
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: box to him, I.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Was just like, so moved.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Can I tell you something?
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no one's ever done this to me in an interview.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: No, but well, and I at the risk of being corny,
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: and I was going to tell you this when we
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: got off camera, Danmielle, this is the first time I've
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: gotten me in person. But I have to tell you,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: like I watch every one of your Instagrams, I watch
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: all of your stories, I watch all of your interviews.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: My first question I was coming in here is she
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: going to be tired? And my thought was you emotionally
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: excavate for so many people. I'm like, she must be
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: doing this type of work at scales as I wonder
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: if she feels tired, because to do this you can
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: only do it in authenticity. You can't do this work
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: and fake the funk. Yes, like it can't be done,
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: and you do it so well, and your questions are
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: so poignant. They're well researched, obviously, but they're so poignant
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: and they really hit I mean right in that muscle,
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: right in that solar plexus of someone's emotional shape. That
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: you were meant for this, and like whatever shape it takes,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: the shape will follow you because you have the talent
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: and you have the skill, and it was what you
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: were put here to do. That is obvious. Well there's
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: obvious to you, it's obvious to us. And I think
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: by doing this work and exactly the way that you're
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: doing it, you're creating space and inclusion. And I love
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: and that's why I love the story about what you wrote,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: because you're allowing the world to also impact you. You're
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: impacting us by the stories you tell because you're always
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: getting Forgod, whose interview I saw recently that you did
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: and it was such a vulnerable space where this like
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: very high profile person to like acknowledge this very vulnerable
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: moment in their career and to have to make them
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: feel safe enough to acknowledge that, and by virtue of acknowledging,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: empower others to acknowledge and feel free to acknowledge your vulnerability.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: That's a gift and I'm really I'm really proud of you.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: You are incredibly generous.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: But no, I just hope you receive it.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I receive it, and I receive it because it's in you,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: you know, like it is.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: But it's this is yours. That's your flower, girl. I
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: want you to hold that flower.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Margan, Thank you for that.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I got emotional because I think romantic relationships and especially
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: the one you write in the book, because it's like
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: will they won't they? It feels those are where like
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the mirror is held up that people really do see
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: all of you, the good, the bad, the ugly. So
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: I hope people read that passage if absolutely nothing else, I.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Appreciate that, I mean, and that's that's why I say that.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: That juxtaposition of like finding out I was pregnant, you know,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: at the same time, it was so interesting because as women,
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: we have multitudes within us. Yes, we have so many lives.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: Just because I'm a mom now I'm a married woman.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Doesn't mean this life didn't exist before or now you're
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: still a woman in her thirties. Site, but there is
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: a life still. These multitude of who we are and
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: who we once were, Yes, get to coexist, they get
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: to commune, they get to inform one another. And I
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: think there's this like false notion that once you do
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: get married, or once you figure out your romantic life,
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: or once you whatever look that you know, you erase
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: everything that came before, And that, to me, I feel
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: like it's such a disservice to who we are.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: I completely agree with you well said. For people who
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: don't have insight into a news anchor reporter's life, what
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: is the truth that people would understand differently if they
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: could see what happens off camera?
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: That the glamour is a very small They see us
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: with the hair and makeup team, and I'm like, oh,
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: that's a cool job. It is it is, that's the
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: smallest piece, the smallest piece, that is the smallest should
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: be if you're doing job a portion of your day.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: At its best, this industry is a thinking man's game, right,
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: This is a questioning woman's game. This is if journalists
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: are good teachers are good where we're teaching a society,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: you know, what resources to use and what's happening and how,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: and we're helping them report on the what by giving
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: context in a way that allows them to deduce the
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: why and the how right. And I don't know that
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: people always see that, like, I don't know. I remember
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: I was doing this interview in front of Trump Tower
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: during the first term when he actually he was running,
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: and this woman I was interviewing in real time, she's like,
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't. She gave me the answer, you know,
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: why are you here today? What speaks to you about
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: this administration? What speaks to you about this moment? What
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: are the issues you care most about? She answered, lovely conversation.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: And then she's like, well, you know, I don't trust
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: the mainstream media. I don't trust me. All y'all are
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: fake news. And I stop. SHOCKA actually had the wherewithal
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: to stop in real time because I was a rookie reporter,
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: and I said, sorry, you think I'm fake news? And
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: she was like, well, not you, but everyone, I mean
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: everyone else. And I'm like, well, I don't know, I'm
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm I'm I'm here I'm in the news, and
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: I remember saying, you know, do you think I left
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: my family? And do you think I left my friends?
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: And I've been living out of a suitcase for seven
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: weeks because I have something to say, because I just
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: gave you this microphone and allowed you to have full
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: range and free range, and what you wanted to say?
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: Did I tell you what to say? She was like,
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: N said, did I edited what to say? I mean,
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: this is a live interview? So what about this feels
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: fake to you? And what would my motivation be? Like,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: I'm curious what I would get from this?
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: What did she say?
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: She was like, well, well, like I said, you were great,
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: But Susie, Susie, now come on, you know, right, Like,
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: and I think people don't realize how far this job is, right, Like,
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of personal sacrifice, especially in like the
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: early years, right, I mean I couldn't maintain a personal
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: relationship because I was not in one place. Yeah, I
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: always say that, like the guys I was dating at
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: that stage in my career could not have sustained a
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: relationship with me at this stage in my career was
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: just too different. And so I don't think a lot
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: of people see that. Like, most of us do this
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: because we couldn't imagine doing anything different most of us.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: Most of us do this because it's a calling. The
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: form of storytelling and reflection of society's values and questioning
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: of power is fundamentally who we are. Yeah, and I
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: don't know that that is always clear, which is why,
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: at least in the work I do, I always try
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: to be transparent, whether that's on my Instagram stories or
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: posts like hey, look, this is a tracking mic. When
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: I stop at this location, after I get off this
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: puddle jumper, I'm going to get like control and in
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: the middle of like Missoula, because I need to find
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: edge control for tomorrow morning, and I'm driving this rental
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: car in the middle of the night and I'm going
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: to get one hour of sleep. I think transparency is
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: how we build trust, and I think right now viewers
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: need that more than ever.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I notice you do that often on your Instagram stories.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I really like that. Thanks, that's why, Yeah, I understand that.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where does all of your emotion go?
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: You just saw me get emotional.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Where does all of your emotion go when you're covering
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: breaking news and it's a really rough day.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: How are you when you come home?
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, my village is so important, and I think people
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: talk about community. I've realized in doing this work how important,
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: deeply important community is, and not just like Capital c community,
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: but like Little Sea community and the small interstitial spaces.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: I think of a time, it was not this election,
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: but the previous. I was with my producer and we
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: went home. We went home to North Carolina, to a
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: different part of the state, and at that time there
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: had been a lot of ballots that had been inexplicably
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: rejected from the North Carolina voter roles and we were
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: going to investigate it. And one of the county clerks,
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: I believe she was, tried to kick me out of
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: the building. Me my producer is white Mexican, but white
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: presenting me, not us me. And when he said whoa, whoa,
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: like this is just our job. This is also like
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: public sidewalk, me kick us off the public sidewalk, she said,
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: I'm not willing to talk to her, and she would
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: only look at him and address him.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: And I remember how chilling and how deeply embarrassing it
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: was for me, and that it happened in my home state.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: And I remember how small. I felt like this woman,
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: you know, successfully made me feel small. And I remember
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: getting in the rental car and just bawling, and my
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: producer saw me, and there was also like a complicated
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: feeling for me about like how should he respond that moment,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: like we wanted to get the story and like not
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: you know, start a revolution just to you know, or
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: like would have been more meaningful to just have someone
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: see me, like, regardless of what happened or what came
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: after that. And he saw me when he got in
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: the car, and I just I was crying, and I said,
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: all of the things I've done, they stood don't matter,
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: all the things I've done, Like I played by your rules,
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: I did all the things. I went to the best schools,
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: I spoke these many languages. I you know, it was
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: kind of people. I was a good company soldier. And
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: this one woman still could say I won't engage.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: With her in one moment.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: In one moment, and I've had lots of moments and
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: in my life, of course, I think most minorities have
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: where those things have happened. I think they're much more
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: crushing and scary and deflating when they happen with systems
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: because people expect it from moments, like racism is not
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six someone calling you the N word
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: in the grocery store. I mean, if you're waiting for
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: that moment to declare something racist, you are going to
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: be waiting for a long time. Like it is in
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: the isms, it's in you know. I had a very
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: difficult boss for a sustained period of my career, and
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: it became clear that under her I could not have
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: a career. I could only have a job. I could
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: only have a job. It's what you see is what
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: you get. You are not allowed to dream or think
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: or desire for more. And everyone around me she would
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: homogeneously hire, and everyone around me would get more. They
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: would get better titles, they would get better opportunities, they
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: would get better pay. She didn't change my salary in
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: six years, and she was allowed to do so, and
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: the system was complicit and allowing her to do so.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: That is the type of ism that is far more
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: pervasive and perversive. And I think those moments are harder
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: to metabolize and are the ones I rely on a
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: community of aunties who say, baby, this is unfortunate, but
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: we have seen this before. Yeah, baby, this has happened
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: to me, and you too will overcome. And I have
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: to remind myself. And it's the community that reminds me
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: of the fact that I stand on soil of a
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: country that was built by people who even when they
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: were told the worst was happening, even when the worst
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: was happening to them, they still had hope and belief
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: that a better day was to come for them. How
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: can you not be resilient when like, that's the shoulder
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: upon which you stand, right.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: What has it been like.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: To have to soldier through some of these things that
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I would categorize as chipping away your soul?
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: I think you would categorize that correctly. Look, it's hard,
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: it's painful, it's other ring, it's undeserved, and I think
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: holding on too that like the one thing I'm so
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: I feel so blessed my parents gave me was you know,
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: this sense of attakas like up until this point, but
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: no further. You know, there's something inside of me that
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: has to remain impenetrable, has to remain impenetrable. It is
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: not porous, So you don't get to tell me who
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: I am. You can try and humility. We can discuss. Certainly,
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: we can take feedback and we can hey, oh that's great,
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: But like at the end of the day, you are
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: not allowed to tell me who I am, right, And
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: I pray that my daughter walks through the world and
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: that it is necessary. It is absolutely necessary.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Part of me feels as if because a big question
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: in your book is where do I come from?
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: What is my story?
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: And I think because you have such a deep knowledge
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: of where you come from, your daughter will inherit that.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: But it's actually, I think something that will be a
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: beautiful outcome of your people reading your book is them questioning, well,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: where do I come from? What is my story? And
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: there's so much strength and power in knowing where you
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: come from? And he keeps using the phrase standing on
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: the shoulders. I've felt it in my life. Do you
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: refer back to that often to cultivate strength?
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: Absolutely?
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: The ancestors for me are what like religion is for others. Yes, right,
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: it's just like past this prologue. No, No, I've seen
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: this before. Yeah, my faith isn't blind. I have seen this,
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: and I've seen it in my own life. I've seen it.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: I've seen it through the now then periods and then
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: now what periods right where God the universe has sustained
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: me and it's always worked out more beautifully than I
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: could have imagined. Always, And so I genuinely hold that
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: as a belief that the best is truly, truly yet
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: to come.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: That is one of the gifts of age, I think,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: and wisdom.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: It's a different type of security, it's a different so
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: like now, when the now what periods come, I have
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: so much more. I have so much more knowledge about
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: who I am, about what I offer. I'm not afraid
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: to say what it is that I offer. I'm not
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: afraid to say what it is that I think I'm worth.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: I have data, right, skills that I didn't have when
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: I was younger. But I also have a peace.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: And a faith, faith and self faith in ancestors.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Well, you've seen some hard shit, like you know, I
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: I think. And when you ask about the question like journalism,
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: like what do people not realize you know, not even
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: just journalism. When you have any modicum of publicity of
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: a public life, you know, these Wikipedia pages are in
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: some senses of disservice. Right, You're gonna google me and
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: be like, oh, you know, Harvard, check Columbia, check for it.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Should you have a lot of checks. I'm coming to
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: be honest.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: But the craziest part is they're gonna see all these peaks,
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: but they're never going to see the valleys. True. They
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: don't see those eleven months or whatever when I was
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: looking for a job. They don't see the number. The
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: reason I went to Network News was because they were
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: the ones who were gonna take a chance on me.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: I applied to every local news station from here to Juno,
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: Alaska and got rejected from every single one. The story
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: didn't end like what oh yeah? And then I got
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: into Biloxi. No, I got rejected from every I saved
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: some of the rejection letters and I got rejected from
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: Columbia when I applied to school the first time from
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: South Africa.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: And here Nancy Han and I are thinking, well, who
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: in the world is rejecting Morgan Radford.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: It's like plenty of people, And so you know, it
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: wasn't until I applied to Columbia second time and then
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: I got a full righte scholarship, and so you know,
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: I just think that especially in this like Instagram social
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: media world, like people are so busy showing their which
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: is great, Like we loved, we love to celebrate, we
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: love to celebrate achievement, and you know, peace and process
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: and all that stuff. But I think like there is
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: this vulnerability that it's risky for sure, Like, but the
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: reward is connection and that is just I mean, that
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: is worth its weight in gold. And that connection is
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: what builds that community that will sustain you in those periods.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: I've also felt that when you see people and you
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: see the human spirit in really tough moments, the way
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: you pull from your ancestors, you can also pull from them.
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, I interviewed this person who
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: had cancer while trying to raise three children on welfare.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: It's like I can get through my bad day. Yeah
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot to learn from them, I think.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: So have you ever questioned your path entirely?
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: Which path?
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Your path in journalism with all the no's that we
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: didn't know you got.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: I have never ever questioned my career. I have questioned
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: certain jobs. Yeah that's fair. I've never ever and I
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: think that's really healthy. Actually, I think if you are
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: in space is like the one that I mentioned, where
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: it's clear you're not being valued, it's clear you're not
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: being seen, it's clear people like you aren't being valued
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: and seen. I think it's necessary that you reinterrogate and
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: ask why you're there, and if you should be there,
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: if it's healthy to be there, if that's the kind
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: of system when we talk about looking at the c
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: suite and the senior leadership teams and the wedding pictures,
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: is that the environment where you will best thrive in.
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: So I've definitely questioned that, which I think those that
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: process of questioning brings a lot of clarity. But I
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: have never questioned this career. I love it. I just
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: I still get like giddy. I still wake up before
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: my alarm. You do.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what does it mean to you to be journalist
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: right now?
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: Right now? Yeah, that's a different questions to be a journalist,
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: To be a journalist right now, those are distinct questions.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: To be a journalist is to be a truth teller.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: It is to give fact and in some cases shape
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: to fact. And it is to give platform to voices
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: that need it, and to shine in light and spaces
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: where there's darkness. In this moment, I think being a
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: journalist is being unafraid of power and systems of power.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: WHOA I think before that was an element right And
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: we've heard that truth to power, accountability, sur sure, sure
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: that's all true. I think when your paycheck comes down
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: to it in a different way, in a more urgent way,
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: you know that portion of this role becomes outsized. What
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: are you willing to do? What will it cost you
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: to hold power accountable? And are you willing to pay
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: that price? That's the mark of a journalist in this moment,
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: and I don't know how long that moment will last.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: Are those questions that you had to ask yourself?
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: For sure?
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: You've said that motherhood gave you a fourth dimension and
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: a way of experiencing the world that you didn't even
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: know was possible. What did it make visible for you
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: that you hadn't seen otherwise?
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: It's a great way to ask that question. I see
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: the world in technicolor?
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Now, WHOA Morgan?
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I see the world in technicolor?
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: How beautiful?
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: I can't, I can't. I cannot overstate the profound impact
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: it has had on my vision, on my courage, and
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: my capacity to build. I think what motherhood taught me
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: something my mom I think had tried to teach me
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: but I didn't see until I had my own kid,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: is that you already have everything inside of you necessary
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: to engineer the life that you want. My mom showed
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: me that, you know, dreams aren't something you have. It's
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: not a passive process. Dreams are something you build. It
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: is a very active process. So you're not waiting for
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: things and not like I'm not the type person do
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: ever wait for something to just stumble my way. But
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: the dream is like an active built and you have it.
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: So while I'm saying it takes one yes right, whether
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: we're building podcasts because we've heard nos or career because
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: we've heard nos, I think my kid showed me that,
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: like this is real, Like you really truly can I.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Mean, because you look at her and think you can
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: do anything?
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: No, I look at her and think I can do anything. Well, Morgan,
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: It's true. That gave me chills. It's true. I mean,
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: I think it's great when you like, you know, live
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: for your kid and stuff. She's definitely the most important
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: element in my life. But now I'm doing this for me.
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: She's gonna have a full life with her dreams. This
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: is for me, Like, yeah, I mean I wrote this
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: book because it was my story. Now it ends in
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: a letter to her and what I want her to
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: take from it because that is my most important legacy
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: is her and through her. But this, this was my
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: story to tell. This was for me to feel the
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: richness of telling and sharing this story and of learning
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: that I could financially close the wage gap that I
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: had experienced when not valued. Right, Like when I was
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: telling you, there were experiences that I was having that said, Okay,
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: we're not gonna do X, Y or Z or honor
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: your work or give you a raise. This was a
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: way to close that gap, even financially. What a mind
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: blowing experience to be able to create and be rewarded
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: additionally for something that is uniquely yours that no one
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: can take away from you, right, I mean, that is
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: a huge thing that I think, just like bringing this
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: life in the world and seeing that it was so
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: natural and that I do feel like I'm getting it
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: right in what I'm teaching her. She just lives life
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: with such reckless a plom I mean, she was walking
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: on the street yesterday just ola oh la. She expects
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: good things to come. She expects good things to come
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: back to her, And so I'm watching this and it's
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: not just like I'm in awe of her. Honey created her,
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: to be clear, like part of that is just of
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: course innate to her. But I also created an environment
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: in a system that allows her to expect such good things.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: So why should I not be able to invest in
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: myself in a similar capacity.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Do you think your husband married you knowing this one
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: is going to be an amaze?
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Was that something that he has said to you.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know that he said it in those words,
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: and I don't know that he's had to, because since
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: we were seventeen in Elliott Dining Hall and we were
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: just friends, he told me he wanted like a socrate
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: of kids, So I knew that being a father was
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: so important to him. Okay, I don't think he would
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: have chosen someone who he didn't think the ride was
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: gonna be really fun with.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: But a fun ride is different than an amazing mom.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: They're not necessarily binaries.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: But that's interesting. He did say once after the baby
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: that he was surprised, like he knew I was gonna
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: be into it. Yeah, but he was like sort of
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: blown away by how deeply, Like my kid is super
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: attached to me, I'm super attached to her. I Like
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: they talk about velcrow kids, I'm like a velcrow parent.
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: Like it's like we snuggle like which just you know,
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: my husband, I realized I only noticed the other day.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know why I hadn't notice it before. Do
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: you know that ever since we've dated hold hands when
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: we watch TV. And I didn't even notice it. We
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: were watching you ever, we were watching the other day
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: and it just dulled in me. I was like, oh,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that's a thing. And you know,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: my kid she holds our hand when she watches TV. Yeah,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: so it's like I don't know if any of us
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: knew like how much I was gonna love this. And
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: I say that to say though, like none of her
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: godparents have kids. I would say the majority of my
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: friends don't have kids. I love adult company and I
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: love connecting with adults, So I don't think that motherhood
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: is like some holy grail for all people. For me,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: it was a unique and profound joy in a way
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: that's like honestly very private joy.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: I talk about it, you know, in these circumstances and
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: I'm fine putting pictures of her up and stuff like that,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: but it's not something where if you like see me
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: on Fifth Avenue, I'm like, ke keen about my kid,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: like that's that's not It's a very private experience for
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: me because I still like interact with the world as
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: Morgan and like, I probably don't bond super well talking
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: about like, you know, diapers and strollers, that's not really
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: my vibe. But you know, privately, the marrow of who
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: she is brings me such joy and excitement.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: That is so awesome to hear. Okay, so you mentioned
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: something that is intertwined with my last question, because there's
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: a letter at the end you said, is to your daughter.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: When your daughter and your unborn new daughter or son
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: reads this book one day, what do you hope that
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: they understand.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: That you were carrying that I was carrying. Yes, interesting,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: the weight of finding the break in the fence so
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: that I could be included and so that I could
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: be seen. That's what I was carrying. And what I
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: hope that they take from it is that they already
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: have everything inside of them necessary to be and do
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: whatever they want in this big, beautiful world, in this
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: bountiful life, and that for them to do that doesn't
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: actually require that someone else see them to make that possible.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll be in conversation with people and someone asks
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: the question and the temperature of the room changes and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: you can just feel it.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? You just brought the
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: temperature of the room down.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: I have some rapid fires. Yeah, sure, Okay. Something you're
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: still figuring out about yourself?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: Girl, how to do my hair? You're always like today,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: how to do natural hair? That is my husband's. Like
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: you are like a fourteen year old on YouTube trying
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: to figure this out. You would think of thirty eight
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: by now, you would have figured it out. I'm still
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: trying to figure out natural hair.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: I feel like you figured it out.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: Oh, not figured it out, but God bless you. Okay
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: for saying that.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've never thought that.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: That's kind The struggle is real, though.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Just true. A moment you almost walked away from your career.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's heavy. We could get better. Never a story
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: that stayed with you longer than you expect.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: Oh, a story on an adopted family. I have never
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: been able to get adoption out of my mind and
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: leave that door open, very actively open for my family.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: A truth that you're avoiding.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good one.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's a hard one.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: That's a hard one.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: How about a version of success you no longer want?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I have so much I want to
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: say to you, but I'm not in front of these microphones.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Okay. How about a book that changed your life, something
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: that you think everybody should read.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, Pat Conroy, I would say anything by him, but
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: Prince of Tides easy.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: The smartest decision you've ever made to have a kid,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: something that every woman should try once.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, trying to think of a PG answer doesn't have
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: to be PG.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Is a podcast, We're not on TV.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: Something every woman should try once, Like the type of
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: romantic kiss you can only read about in the rain. Whooh, Morgan, Yeah.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: That was a good PG version to whatever you were thinking.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: I was like, so taloom Yeah.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: And then from the question everything card game?
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: What is something that people don't see about you at
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: first glance that you wish they saw.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure if they see it. But a need
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: for gentleness and tenderness. Wow, I feel that immensely, and
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure I think some people see it, and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: some environments see it. But I don't even know, like
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: if this environment, like in New York, thinks anyone needs it.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: So I don't even know that that's a me specific answer.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: But I think like gentleness, not kindness, not respect, not
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: like just gentleness. And I love that about the South,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: so I do feel like I get that there.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: But yeah, a need for gentleness beautiful. I wouldn't have
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: guessed that. Yeah, thank you for sharing, for sharing so
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: much of yourself. Thank you on the pages too. I'm
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: so excited for everybody to read this book.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so nervous and excited.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: Oh it's going to be amazing. Thank you mama. Yeah,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: goodness you Okay, you know what time it is.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Today's a good day, to have a good day.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: I'll see you next week.