Latest / The Daily Writer / Diversity, Empathy & Creativity (with Heather Fleming)

Transcript

Diversity, Empathy & Creativity (with Heather Fleming) · The Daily Writer

0:08
SPEAKER_00: Welcome creative geniuses.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: This is episode 91 of the Born to Create Podcast.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kent Sanders, and this is the show where we explore the mindset, habits, and skills to help you make a bigger impact in your life and creative work.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: You can find previous episodes, my free ultimate toolkit for creative entrepreneurs, and much more at Kent Sanders.net.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, most of the episodes of this podcast are more lighthearted thematically.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: We often talk about writing, the arts, curiosity, and related kinds of topics.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is a little bit different because I decided to dive into the whole topic of diversity.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Now I hope that doesn't scare you away.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: And the reason I say that is because when it comes to topics like diversity, people can easily become very emotional.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: It's a topic where there's a lot of controversy that often surrounds it.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: And people just honestly get kind of weird whenever we talk about issues of diversity and racism.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why that is exactly.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't seem like a topic that should be different than any other topic out there.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: We should be able to sit down as grown-ups and as mature adults and sit down and just discuss things that are important to us as people and as human beings.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: So regardless, people sometimes just get weird when it comes to topics where there's controversy surrounding those things.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I am really thrilled to have a guest who I respect and admire.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Her name is Heather Fleming, and she's going to join us on this episode today to talk about issues related to diversity, empathy, and creativity.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: This all started whenever I had Heather actually as a guest in one of my college courses about a year ago, and she did such an amazing job just sharing about this and related issues that I thought, man, I've got to have her on the show.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: And this show is all about exploring how topics are related to creativity.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: So in this particular episode, we're going to talk about how is diversity and empathy related to this issue of creativity.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: She shares a lot of fun things in this episode, and I'm really excited to share with you our conversation.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: I learned a ton of things.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: I came away a changed person, and I know you will as well.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: I'll share the conversation with Heather in just a couple of minutes, but first, let's dive into our Ask Kent segment.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: This is the part of the show where I answer your questions about creativity, mindset, habits, writing, productivity, or pretty much anything else you want to throw at me.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: If I can't come up with an intelligent answer, then I will find somebody who does.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the way that it rolls.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Today's question is sent in by my good friend Sterling Highland, and Sterling is an amazing artist, by the way.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: He asks this question When your house is full of art and you've given gifts of art to the limit, it affects your motivation to make more.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: What should I do with any further creations?
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, Sterling, first of all, thanks for your question.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: This is a really interesting dilemma, and I think it really comes down to this.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: You're saying, I love making this stuff, I love making my art, but I'm making too much of it.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: Now what do I do with all the stuff that I've created?
3:12
SPEAKER_00: And I've put together four simple ideas.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: I hope that one or two of these really strike your imagination, and I hope these will be helpful to everybody who's listening as well.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: So four quick ideas for what to do with art that you create.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: Number one is to sell it.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: So why not create an online store where you can sell your art?
3:30
SPEAKER_00: There's a market for pretty much anything that people can make or can create these days.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: So no matter how small of a niche that your art is in, or no matter what kind of stuff that you make, there's probably an existing market for it.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: So why not create an online store and sell it?
3:45
SPEAKER_00: Number two, start a blog where you feature your artwork.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: People would love to see the process that you use to create your artwork.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Or you could also start a YouTube channel where you feature your artwork and behind-the-scenes stories and those kinds of things.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: And you could actually just then embed those videos on your website or send them out to subscribers via email or post them on social media or whatever you want to do.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: But the idea here is that you're telling the stories of your art, how you made it, why you made it, why it's important to you, the history behind it.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: You're a very thoughtful person, and I know you'd like to dig into all these kinds of details related to artwork, and your artwork is amazing, by the way.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: So I know if I'm interested in those things, that probably many other people are interested in those kinds of things as well.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: Number three, take your artwork to art or craft shows.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's something that sounds interesting to you as going to these kinds of shows, but they exist and it may be a good place to feature your artwork and connect with other people who do similar kinds of art.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: And then finally, number four is donate your artwork to local businesses or organizations who might want to feature it.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: So, of course, as you know, our mastermind group meets at a coffee house, and every time that we go there, which is every two weeks, there seems to be different artwork featured on the walls.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if other businesses or coffee houses or organizations might want to also feature that artwork.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh, for example, I know of one artist, and I apologize, I can't remember their name or what their specific situation is, but I know that they have a niche where they create artwork for things like chiropractors' offices, dental offices, and that type of thing.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: So they create artwork where people are where that artwork is going to calm people who are in distress.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: For example, when people go to the dentist, a lot of times, you know, they're feeling anxious and upset about that and they're worried about the processes and procedures and so forth.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: So there's a need for artwork in tons of different places, not just art galleries and coffee houses.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: So think about the different types of businesses or organizations or even churches or other groups who could benefit from the amazing artwork that you create.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: Now, the last thing is you could put all these things together in some different combinations that would be interesting.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: For example, you could create a site where a website where you sell your artwork, but it also features the stories behind those creations.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: You could talk about your philosophy of art, the history of your style of art, and all kinds of different things.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: So I would love to see what your mind comes up with whenever you think about what your art is and how it can impact others.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's an element when we're creating art where we think, okay, this is something I enjoy now, what do I do with all this stuff?
6:27
SPEAKER_00: But art can really be so much more than that.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: What I believe about art is that art is not really about art.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And that may not make any sense, but let me explain what I mean by that.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Art is not really just about the artwork itself.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: Art is really a vehicle or a catalyst for a lot of other things.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: For example, artwork can be a catalyst for talking about relationships or important issues.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: It can be a catalyst for building relationships.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's one reason art museums are so cool, is you can go with your family or you can go with friends and you can talk about what those pieces of art represent and the themes that are present in those pieces of art and the history behind them and so much more.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh artwork can be a catalyst for teaching people how to have confidence and how to express their own creativity and how to express their identity through their artwork.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh artwork can give people hope and can help them to see there's there's more to life than just working some nine-to-five job and going home and watching Netflix.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: So art is really a catalyst for all these other kinds of things.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: So I would just encourage you to expand your vision and to see the kinds of things that your artwork can accomplish, not just in your life, but in the lives of other people.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: You're an amazing artist, and I would encourage everybody who's listening to to just think a little bit bigger about what our art can do in the world.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: That may sound a little bit grandiose, but I I totally believe that's true.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Our art can be a catalyst for so many cool things.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: So, Sterling, thanks for your question.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: This really prompted within me a lot of thoughts about things, so I appreciate you sending it in.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: Give that some thought and let me know what you think.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: For everybody else who's listening, uh, if you have a question about the creative life, habits, mindset, productivity, or writing, you can submit your question by going to Kent Sanders.net slash podcast and filling out the question form there.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And if I use your question on the show, I'll send you a free ebook and audiobook of the artist suitcase.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: So thanks so much again, and I hope this was helpful.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned, I'm really excited today to have Heather Fleming on the show.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Heather is a diversity and inclusion educator, a former English teacher, and now the author of the book called My Black Friend Says Lessons in Equity, Inclusion, and Cultural Competency.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: Her professional experience includes eight years in the public service sector before she became a high school English teacher in one of the state's top districts.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: In 2018, Heather left the educational field to start a nonprofit dedicated to equity and inclusion education, and it's called In-Purpose Educational Services.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Her organization offers several services, particularly educational advocacy for students and families, regardless of their ability to pay, as well as offering learning events centered around diversity.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Her goal for her work in the St.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Louis area is to promote healing, understanding, and equity for all.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: In our conversation today, we talk about a lot of different topics related to diversity and empathy and inclusion.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: And some of the things that we talk about include Heather's experience as the only African American woman in her school district.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: We talk about the most effective ways to help others change their heart and their perspective.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: She talks about her programs for churches and organizations and also shares some behind-the-scenes info about her new book.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: So we talk about a lot of interesting things in this episode, and this conversation is exactly the kind of reason why I do a podcast.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: I learned a ton from Heather.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciated her insights and wisdom.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: And just to be really honest with you, I asked her some questions that were a little uncomfortable for me, but I just think, hey, I'm sitting down with this person who's very wise and has a lot to share, so why not just kind of come out and ask questions and and um come from a place, frankly, of ignorance, because I'm ignorant about a lot of things.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: And I just thought I'm gonna ask questions and see how she can help me to become more educated, uh, particularly on issues related to diversity.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: So I hope you enjoy this conversation.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a little different than what we typically talk about on this show, but it is a vital issue.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: It's important, and if you are a human being, this ought to be important to you as well.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: After the conversation, you can check out the show notes at Kent Sanders.net slash zero nine one.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's get to the conversation with Heather Fleming.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm here recording in my college office with Heather Fleming, and uh glad to welcome you to the show today.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you making time to come and chat with me.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for inviting me.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: So let's start out with uh a little bit about what you do uh with your organization.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Can you talk for a couple minutes about what you do, why you're doing that, and what you hope to accomplish?
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I have a nonprofit called In Purpose Educational Associates slash services.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, and what I do is basically equity and inclusion work.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Um it includes student advocacy services.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: I was an educator for 14 years, a high school English teacher for 14 years, and during that time I learned a lot about um, you know, how to be a voice for students.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: And with my nonprofit, we really work to um make sure that students can have those services regardless of their ability to pay.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, a lot of times those services are available to people that, you know, have the money to shell out$30,$40,$50 an hour, but the kids that really need somebody and they're speaking for them the most often can't afford it.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I offer those services for free through um donations to my organization.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: Um also in the process of writing grants, etc.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: The other thing that I do is that I offer um diversity and inclusion training on various topics throughout the St.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Louis area.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: I will also go into companies and organizations to um design specialized programs for them.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: Currently developing a program actually for churches.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: Um and then the final thing I do is is activities that allow us to really use what we're learning.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: And so um it it's a lot of different things, but it all falls under the umbrella of just trying to bring people together and get them to understand one another and each other's experiences.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: So, how did your time as a public school teacher prepare you for this, or maybe even in some ways compel you to make that transition and move out on your own?
12:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and well, that's a really good story.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: So um I I taught in a predominantly white school district.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Um for many, many years, I was the only high school English, you know, African-American high school English teacher across five schools.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so uh I often found myself in the position of being the only person in the room with that particular um perspective or you know, experience and having to speak to that and speak to that alone.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Um eventually it was really cool to start getting other um voices to join in with me as they started understanding better.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, of course, they take you through diversity and you know, education and training as you come into uh districts and as you um are in the district a little bit more and they develop a little bit more.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: Um I ended up having to go to about seven different trainings, not because I needed additional training, but because they needed African Americans um to come and to speak.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the training that I got I felt it it addressed a specific um group of people, which basically were the people that are absolutely gung-ho ready to do this work.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: And um there's a gray area in between, in between just the person that's like, no, I don't, I reject diversity, I reject all of that.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that and and where they were starting their training from.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: And so I developed program for that person that's like, I I know that I need to do this, I don't know what to do.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so a lot of my training really deals with what needs to happen on the inside, how you um look at your biases, how you deal with some of the emotions that come up, how you begin the process of breaking down stereotypes so that you have a better understanding of who people are um as individuals.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: And so that that's what happened is that I developed that training and um began teaching to my colleagues, teaching it to my colleagues for salary credit.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: And um after the first set uh of people came through, they were like, We need a second, you know, a second part two, we need a part two to this.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: And so I developed part two, and by the time I stopped doing that and and you know, started my company, I had six cohorts of the first part of the course, and then five cohorts of the second part of the course, um, which was, you know, really, really great.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: And then I I started my company just because of the fact that, you know, honestly, I was frustrated with the fact that I felt like I really wasn't um operating in my purpose.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: And that's the reason why my my business is called in purpose, because I I did a lot of soul searching and a lot of praying, and kind of the answer that came to me was uh a question in the form of a question.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: If you could be doing anything and money wasn't the consideration, what would it be?
15:58
SPEAKER_01: And it was bringing people together.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: It was this, this work, you know, and and um I do this work really because that's I I love people.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: I love hearing people's stories, and I love the opportunity to teach people how to listen how to tell their stories and how to listen to other people's stories.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, and we were talking a few minutes ago before I hit record on my my computer about how this topic of of empathy and diversity ties into the whole theme of this podcast, which in my view, you know, the whole idea of our creative gifts is yeah, I mean, they're there for us to enjoy, obviously, and hopefully we have fun using our gifts and all that.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, I feel like the purpose of of our giftedness and our of our talents is to serve others.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And if there's not a service component to that, however you define that, I mean it could be I write entertaining stories, I I speak, I teach, I write books, whatever it is.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: But there has to be an element where our gifts exist for the purpose of other people.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: And if we're gonna serve other people and and know about the world and be creative, that that just by definition means we learn about other people.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: We're curious about other people and their experiences, we value what they have to bring to the table, especially those who are different from us.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's like, well, you know, I value people who are just like me, and and I can probably learn something from somebody who's different than me.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, I think we've got to flip that on Ted.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: It's we've got to be around people who have different experiences and perspectives, and listening and empathy and valuing other people, that is a huge part of why I started this show, and I love listening to other people and their stories.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: So let me let me kind of dive into a real specific question related to all this.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes on on shows or or other things, we sort of, and in the Christian community, we kind of talk around issues and whatever.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: But so, and I invited you on the show today because I want to I'm doing an awful lot of talking for listening, but I want to hear what your experience is as an African-American woman, and particularly if you can kind of help me understand as a white man, what was your experience like as the only African American teacher in that district?
18:09
SPEAKER_00: And because I recognize I don't know what that's like.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't have that experience or perspective.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: So there's obviously something that I can learn from this, and I I want to help help me to see things from your point of view, and I understand that's not really possible on some level, but hopefully I'm making sense.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh you do.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: Um it was a lot of times uh lonely, to be quite honest.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Um not because I didn't have good colleagues, my colleagues were incredible.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: I came from one of the best English departments in the entire look, I'll go ahead and say in the entire world.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, I really did.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: And so, but it was a long fight getting there.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know thinking in terms of um like for instance, to kill a mockingbird.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: You had all these people that love to kill a mockingbird.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: And when I was a ninth grader, I loved it too.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: I read it um in Honors English and I loved it too.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: And um then I I reread it as a 29-year-old teacher uh getting ready to teach it to my students, and I was horrified and to get them to understand why I was horrif horrified because we have so much in the world that um sends negative messages to um African American students that I I wanted them to have literature that really um spoke to their strength and their abilities and not and didn't cast them as um subordinate to their white counterparts.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Which that story does.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: It does, you know.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you have the death of this man, um, tragic death for such unfair reasons, and we're left to examine how um the main character's brother feels about it, you know, from from that perspective.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: And so you have a very static cat character in Tom, and it it's just unfortunate.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: So I really wanted them a book that would be empower empowering, and it just took a lot of work because I I'll never forget sitting in the meeting and I'm explaining this to someone, and and the response that I received was, but what about the vocabulary?
20:34
SPEAKER_00: The vocabulary.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: The vocabulary.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm not sure.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Can you say missing the forest for the trees?
20:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, and so it but it it brings back that whole point that um, you know, she really good people can still say some messed up things.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: And it's not because they're bad people, it's because there's more more to learn.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: There's more to learn.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I often found myself in the role of teaching um not just my students, but also having to teach my colleagues about how to um, you know, stand up for me and for kids that look like me.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, that's kind of how I ended up transitioning.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: So that was a good thing, but it's just it's a lot of work, you know.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: I remember being in a meeting and I have um done this, it's it's with a student and um an another teacher, a parent, and um one of the assistant principals, and I sat there, gave this whole brilliant speech summary, et cetera, about the student's strengths, etc.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: etcetera.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Um got ready to leave, and the assistant principal reached down and was like, I just gotta touch your hair and petted my hair.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: And it was like But she you know, but at the same time again it's a it's a lack of cultural awareness that that's not you know that's not appropriate and so i it was uh sometimes just a really big fight to prove that I was professional, prove that I was um capable, um um prove that you know I I I knew what I was doing and could lead and guide and um and create because in the in the end even teaching is an act of creation you have to be creative if you keep doing things the same ways over and over again you're not going to reach kids especially not in this digital you know digital age where it everything's coming at them fast you know and then we expect them to sit down and slowly read a book you know so you got to switch some things up um yeah it's it's it's it's a lot we would have to sit here for a long time to explain you know how it felt to be the only one but at the same time I don't ever want to give the impression that you know I came from a bad place.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: I did not at all my my high school was wonderful my um colleagues were amazing and I still love and respect them to this day.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: One of the things we were talking about again before we hit record is this idea of listening and empathy.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: And you had a really good insight where you talked about changing people's hearts.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: You know you you can change systems and structures and all those things and I'm sort of putting words in your mouth to a degree but in your experience in working with companies, schools, students, churches, what are the most effective ways to change somebody's heart in the way that they value others who are different than them or helping somebody to change their perspective to be the the great question to be quite honest.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: If I figured it out I would already be um very rich okay um because then I could solve all of racism.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: I could solve all of xenophobia and and and just the reality is one of the things um that I talk about and I teach often is the fact that um we don't know each other in general um cross racially cross um culturally we don't know one another and uh what I mentioned to you is the fact that the biggest thing we definitely have not fallen in love with each other you know and so America like America is here America likes black culture but not necessarily black people and have not fallen in love with black people because when you fall in love um you're gonna want what's best for them you're gonna appreciate um the good that comes um from them um you're going to revere their culture revere you know who they are as individuals and their rights as individuals and when it comes to flaws you're gonna be there to support those flaws and we don't do that um so the biggest thing that I work on when I'm in um training is the idea of relationships it's really hard to hate people I'm hoping that you develop um relationships with it it becomes harder at least so I I talk about I I in part of my research I found the idea that there are three types of ties that we have um two people so there's um bonding ties bridging ties and linking ties and and bonding ties are those people that are are part of your inner circle the ones that you know um close family best friends etc your um bridging ties are those people that you know like the coworker that you go to lunch with and you guys have a good relationship with or etc um the acquaintances and then the linking ties are just the people that you have temporary interactions with so that person at 7-Eleven that rang you out linking ties don't bring much change of heart yeah bridging ties bring a little bit more bonding ties bring the most changes to your heart and so how do we move people from just these basic tethers where um there's still room for stereotypes there's still room for misunderstanding there's still room to think of people as this faceless um them um to that relationship where you're able to say wait a minute what you just said does not meet with the experiences that I've had with this person or that person so we've got to do more than that um 91% of all white people's friends are other white people okay um 75% of all white people cannot name even one person of color as a friend or acquaintance yeah that's um I'm forgetting off the top of my head who did that research but um I think it's from a book that I have I'll have to get it to you get the name to you um so that means that 25% of all white people are sharing 9% of of their black friends with one another.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's unfortunate because again and and we see it in the St.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Louis area so much we see these concentrated areas to the point that we can we can point out and be like that's where the Bosnians live this is where the Italians live you know and um we've got to do something to change that dynamic and to bring people together more because that's what's going to change hearts the most you know we we have too many districts that um 97% of their students or 95% of their students are um white you know and then we have school districts just you know down the road that um 98% of their students are black there's reasons why we got that that way.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: So we have to change systems and we have to change hearts.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: So somebody who's listening to this may may be hearing this and say okay this is like a systemic thing this is like a huge cultural thing and feels overwhelming you know I'm just one person.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: What can one person do to to make a difference?
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Is there something in your experience that you found okay this is like a practical thing somebody could do um to begin to make a difference and to to reach out to somebody who doesn't look like you're different than you at this point anything to be quite honest.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: I love that you know anything.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I say that is because there's a lot of work to be done and God has blessed each of us with um different talents so that we can do that work.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: I talked to you before we began recording just about the idea of you know in the story of Esther when Mordecai asks Esther who's to say that you know you you haven't been put in place for such a time as this and that's what we have to think in terms of if you're the CEO of a company who's to say that God didn't put you in that position so that you could be the person that changes the the culture of the con um company to be inclusive of more people of more religions of more you know cultural ethnicities and etc who's to say that that's not you if you are the school to cafeteria lady who's to say he hasn't placed you there because you need to care for students in a way that maybe they're not receiving at home and they're not receiving from their you know their teachers and so we we look at if God has blessed blessed you with money how can you use that money to support these causes if he's blessed you with the ability to walk where can you walk that would lead to change um you know there's it again there's a lot of work to be done and we all have a role to play in doing it.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I do is I do a program called Come to the table and it's a um basically it's a buffet it's a wonder it's a dinner discussion.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: I get donations from various restaurants of various um you know ethnicities and backgrounds and and also from um some of the top caterers in our in our area um and you end up with this big display of all this diverse food so Indian Pakistani and you know some good old southern macaroni and cheese and um last time we had Jamaican jerk chicken and um everything.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: So just a lot of different food but you get to come together and I have small tables eight people at each table um you can only sip with one other person you know and it's just time to sit down and talk and you know the the we know from the Last Supper we know from many other cultural traditions that the breaking of bread is a spiritual act and it brings connection and so I I liked it in that particular setting because it makes people more relaxed and more able to talk and what I do is I put questions on the table that is up to the people at the table if they want to use them.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: They can just you know freestyle it but my level I have four levels level one questions are the basic getting to know you how many kids do you have are you married?
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Have you always lived in St.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: Louis things like that by the time you get to level four you're de delving into some issues you know deeper into some issues so um we might be talking about Ferguson we might be talking about blackface and you know what's happening right now in the um media with blackface and it's an opportunity for people to come together and to talk because honestly that's going to be the first place if we want to find out what we need to do to help that's gonna be the first place is the ability to talk.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: The other thing um that I really stress and I think this be comes from the fact that I'm an educator is our schools.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: That's so key.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: Our schools we've got to be at our schools and we've got to be advocating for our children.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: And then we also need to um make sure that they understand as they're le you know before they leave school that they understand their value and they understand their role in now taking what they've learned and what they've done and um making it better for the people that come after them.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: I have an 80 year old uncle and I I became really upset because when I had my first come to the table last year um he he didn't want to go and I was like devastated because that's my he's my great uncle um Ray, the patriarch of our family and I was like oh my gosh you don't want to go but what he told me I've had time to really sit and think about and he said I had these conversations 50 60 years ago so that you wouldn't have to and now that you have still have to have these conversations I'm gonna let you have them so that your children won't have to and um that's what we have to do.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: We have to keep just sewing into our children to make sure that um the things that we have to do to stand up for others right now hopefully they won't have to.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: I hope you're enjoying our conversation and we'll get back to it in just a second.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: But first I want to take a moment to mention that this episode is brought to you by Convert Kit.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about your email marketing for just a moment.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: If you want to build a business as an author, a creative or an artist, your number one resource is your email list.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Even though email has been around a long time it's still the most reliable way to communicate directly with your fans, readers and your audience.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of popular email marketing services out there today.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: I started off with one that was free but had very limited features and a while later I switched to a different one that wasn't free but was really complicated to use.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: Then I switched to ConvertKit and I was really thrilled to discover that not only was it easy to use and set up, it was also fun to send emails to my readers.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: And this is because ConvertKit is really easy to use and it's designed with creative people in mind.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: Convert Kit is offering Born2Create listeners a special free 30-day trial and that's more than twice as long as their standard two week trial period.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: If you want to spend more time creating and communicating and less time messing with the confusing technical processes of other email marketing services then you're going to love Convert Kit.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: To take advantage of this special offer and begin your free 30 day trial with Convert Kit go to KentSandards.net slash ConvertKit.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: Alright let's get back to the conversation can you talk a little bit about the programs that you have in place for churches as well so you mentioned come to the table um there are some other programs as well correct?
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Right now I am developing because it that's the other part when you talk about born to create this work is about creating because you're trying to create something that people can understand, can accept into their hearts and can can continue to learn from and so just out of conversations that I've had um with people one of the things that has arisen is the need and a lot of churches are starting to tackle the issues of race and diversity and the role that unfortunately Christianity has sometimes played in perpetuating racism.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: And so I am developing programs where we're going to be able to you know go to churches and to talk to them about how do you make your um environment inclusive of all people.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Martin Luther King Jr.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: said and I mentioned this to you earlier Martin Luther King Jr.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: said the most segregated hour in America is 11 o'clock on Sunday and that's very very true.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: And so we have churches that are very well intentioned they're trying to do work within minority communities but if they're predominantly white church they're falling short they're wondering why they're not able to bring more people in and so my hope is that through some of these this program um that I'm creating that um they'll be able to um you know kind of tackle that problem head on and to build also to to take some of their leaders that they're developing and really develop them into inclusive leaders and leaders that are ready and prepared to deal with these issues head on because there is an amount of cultural competency that you need to have if you're going to lead a diverse um congregation and uh you know I I'm here to help in any way I can to make sure that we can tackle those problems head on.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: Can you also talk about uh the upcoming book that you're working on yes I'm writing I'm excited about this I'm writing a book called My Black Friend says um the subtitle is lessons in um equity inclusion and cultural competency uh the title actually came as a joke from the friend because she was talking about how we were talking about what red flags um and one of the red flags that often come up in conversations of races well I have a black friend that says um so this time you if you're referring to my book it'll actually be okay for you to say that uh but basically it is individual with small lessons um that people can read each chapter is on a different topic so one of my chapters is the subtle racism of Lord Expectations and it talks about what that means um where you might see it how it might appear in various um settings can you can you elaborate on that?
38:29
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm really curious what what you mean by that well like for instance we have uh a lot of times we think of racism as just that blatant stuff you know the the shouting of the N-word or or whatever um but racism is insidious in nature and so we find it in in good people we find it in you know people with not so good intentions and we have to be able to identify it and so the subtle racism of lowered expectations is basically that you already go into expect expecting less of an African American person or or minority and um the result ends up being that you don't challenge as much you don't um so it's it's almost like a self-perpetuating system.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: Exactly exactly so um you know hey the remember this kid comes from the inner city so he probably can't do math.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: Well have you seen if this kid can do math first and so I saw it in well-meaning educators um you know in every district you can see that there's there's people that are like I really um you know I like this kid so I'm not gonna require him to well no he's you know there's still requirements that need to be had the the inclusion part comes in being able to provide that student with a tool so that he can reach that level not lowering the level that you're going to require of him.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: And so it it talks about you know what to do how to combat it how to identify it and then gives you in each of the chapters you're uh met with um small areas where you can write and journal to reflect as well and so another one I have is um you know how do I begin this work you know where do I start and so it talks about you know uh identifying your unconscious biases and um just some of the emotions that might come with it how to combat those etc currently the chapter I'm writing is and I'm almost finished thank goodness um is how to be a good ally in the workplace because we have a lot of that was a big question a lot of people asked me and I'm actually going to do some training March 30th on that topic um you know just to to to teach people that you know again when you're the only African American in a place you need allies so for those people who want to be a good ally here is here are the things you need to think about and consider and um be willing to do.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: So let me ask you this and uh you know I'm just kind of putting myself out there as asking a question that is is based completely in ignorance okay is there a sense in which your African American and your woman is that sort of a a double thing that you have to contend with in society and in life or or is that not?
41:30
unknown: Yes.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: So there's a concept called intersectionality and um it basically I'm going to school here I'm like taking notes it basically now you just gave me a new chapter I need to write about.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: But intersectionality talks about the fact that you know when you have cross sections of um of minority statuses that yes sometimes they interact with one another but that's also why you know when we think about this idea of feminism white feminism and what feminism looks like for white women is different often than what's really it looks like for black women.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: And so um we've been able to do a lot of work with it because there's a secondary lens that I still have to apply.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times um you know people that are like these are the things about that women care about it's like well I I do care about that you know but that's not the highest on my priority list.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: You see what I'm saying?
42:30
SPEAKER_01: And so yes we have um there are some things that are different and that's what comes to if you're going to be a good ally is at times being able to understand that like for me as a black woman my voice is suppressed twice.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: It's suppressed as a woman sometimes and it's suppressed as a black person that makes sense sometimes.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: And so there if we look at a workplace um you know like when we when we're talking about women making so many cents less than men that statistic is white men to white women often okay so it's even worse when you're talking about minority women.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes okay so like for instance for a dollar I think at one point it was 70 women make 77 cents on the dollar to a to a man um to white man black women were at fifty six cents and so you have a lot of different things that end up being slightly different for black women than for um black men I mean excuse me than for white women and uh one of the events I I went to an event February 9th sponsored by the Mateen House um which is another nonprofit that's actually building a home for I'm on the board of it so I forgot to mention this but building a home for women that are escaping human trafficking um it's gonna be a full service home that has like counseling services um professional mentors uh you know living quarters for sixteen women uh just pretty much everything that they need there in order to get their lives back together make a new start um an on-site counselor everything and but I went to um an event they organized called Sippin' with my sisters slash sisters and the whole point of it was to talk about the understanding gap between white women and black women you know white women and minority women and it was such a powerful event because we had two wonderful women Maggie Huffman and um Amy Hunter um on stage talking about basically the idea of being allies and kind of what people need to understand is the difference.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of conversation to be had even you know between um women of various ethnicities so that we can all understand and be on the same page and move forward together.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: Um because again there's some issues that they don't impact me as much as as and then there's issues that are important to me that don't app impact white women as much but the um reality is we're not going to solve any of it if we're not listening to one another.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: You know I remember something I don't remember what the issue was.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: This has been a number of years ago and and I'm sure it's happened since my wife says I'm kind of forgetful sometimes so which is completely true.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: But there was something that had happened I don't remember if it was something that happened in her work or or some news thing we were talking about and and we both perceived it completely differently and it was just because I'm a man and she's a woman and and we were talking about that and we kind of got into a heated not a full blown war argument thing but it was a I would say a passionate discussion shall we say because we just saw the same thing so completely different.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: And I I apologize I don't even remember what it was but it was in that moment where I I just had the stark realization of you know two people can see the same thing and they can look at it completely different.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: And it really helps me to understand in a in a small way that just because I see things a certain way it doesn't mean that's actually accurate or and sometimes it doesn't mean there's just one way to look at something.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: It means other people have completely valid viewpoints and I need to I need to do a better job of listening and not having to have the last word on something which I I tend to argue with a little bit.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: So you know one of the things that I'm often able to do is is anytime you go into a comment section on an article or something like that, I could go through and pinpoint those people who um don't have many um diverse friends.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: And the reason why is because of the fact that it gives you a new lens um as you begin listening to more people's stories and understanding a little bit differently.
47:05
SPEAKER_01: So yes a lot of people that's what it is you know when we when we look at some of these things that happen in in the media the people's perspectives are automatically um you know partially informed by their experiences and so the reality is is that your wife may have viewed that differently because there were so many different experiences.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: You know when um when Mike Brown happened um it was which was just a couple miles from where we're recording.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: Exactly um when that happened one of the things that I tried to talk to people about is that the reason why so many African Americans believe this perspective is because that's been their experience too.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: You know um I'll never forget and I tell people this story I'll never forget that I was in 15 years old we had um my two friends they were 16 so they could drive and so we had a a couple guys that um uh we liked and and everything and we um were sitting on a curb in St.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Ann just talking and minding our business and all of a sudden these police cars pull up and I mean pull up fast like they're getting ready to jump out and make an arrest.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: And so when about four officers get out and one is an older white man he's wearing a suit and um he automatically just begins speaking to us so very disrespectfully to the point that the young man that was there because these were really we were good kids you know um the young man that was sitting there he goes hey buddy I you know what have we done we done something we're just sitting here you were just sitting here and the police officer opens his coat shows us his badge and he says you see this this shows you that I'm not your buddy and I'm not your pal.
49:09
SPEAKER_01: And if you think that when that happened I was 30 I don't want to tell my age so I was 30ish um when Mike Brown happened and that's what came to mind because if you think about the fact if if if it they already approached us with an aggressive stance then so when we heard you know the story um from both perspectives there were per was a perspective that some people believed because that too had been their experience.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: And that's the other thing for people to understand is that in white neighborhoods I grew up in St.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: Charles and so yes in St.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: Charles I the you know the the police officers that came to our school for dare and everything like that, yeah, they were taught that they were our buddies and our pals.
50:05
SPEAKER_01: But coming outside of of the school um it changed you know for me as a black child than it and it was different than it was for some of my friends as white children because for for some of those people they were still friends and buddies and pals when they pulled up and um for other children they weren't you know for other people there weren't research shows that African American children are often viewed as older than they are.
50:35
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah starting at at five years old um they're judged to be um more mature uh sneakier is like you go down a lot of a long list and now what what's the reason for that?
50:51
SPEAKER_00: Is that because like let's say uh if you take a white boy who's five and a black boy who's five is that because the white the white child is not going to be like he's not going to be as tall or is that like a biological thing or what's the I think it's a I think it's a bias.
51:08
SPEAKER_01: You know 13, 14 year old boys are are um viewed and you can even listen to the language when we see stories um on the media okay if you look at Mike Brown he was portrayed as a man um he was only 18 he was a kid I I have a 22 year old you know it's like he's still a kid um but yet when Ryan Locke was down in Brazil acting a fool he was described a lot of times as a boy.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: He was 32.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah you know which is not a boy super long shot.
51:46
SPEAKER_01: Um and so it's this I is it's language that sometimes make um make young white people naive and innocent and make black children not children.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: They're they're men and they're um you know boys and so not as innocent naive and and you know subject to empathy and and that's really interesting.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure if I never thought of that and didn't really realize that existed but you're now that I think about it it's like yeah you're you're totally right.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's one of the things I talked about I I met with a student of mine um well I won't let use his name but I met with a student of mine uh Monday and from a political standpoint we are diametrically opposed to one another.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: Um from the human compassion and empathy standpoint point we are not you know we we converge and we want to so you know he's looking at true conservatism as far as um financial policies etc um but he's questioning the you know some of the other stances being taken and so one of the biggest things that we talked about as we as we sat there talking was this idea that you know we don't have the full history sometimes and so like right now when we're talking about the welfare um debate and people are using coded language around welfare and welfare it's like you people not understanding the full story of how some of these programs came about um one of the things I talked to him about is the fact that unemployment insurance that's there for everyone right it wasn't intended to be okay it was not intended to be when um it it came into place the president had to I think that was what Roosevelt I believe the New Deal not sure Truman yeah that was Roosevelt okay the New Deal um he had to make an agreement with the Dixiecrats at that time to make sure that black people could not benefit from it.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: And so at that time there were two classes where 90% of all African Americans worked in and they were it that was sharecropping so farmers and then domestic help.
54:17
SPEAKER_01: And so guess what unemployment insurance uh which ones they excluded they excluded those two and so ninety percent of African Americans weren't able to do that.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: When we look at the GI Bill bill when it came into place 95% of the people that were able to take advantage of that and to build generational wealth for their children were white.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: And um that's what we talk about when we talk about systems but and to look at the system and how the systems have even been developed from the beginning of time in order to disadvantage certain groups and then that's when we begin to understand there's a there's a bigger context that we always have to look at when we're looking at these issues.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: So it's not just this one thing that happens.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: You know Ferguson didn't just one day somebody said it wasn't an isolated thing.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: Right this happened in a vacuum that was uh the result of a hundred years of policies that it created um some very uh big disadvantages and the Ferguson report brought those disadvantages out but the reality is we've had three years since the Ferguson report came out and many changes have not been implemented so we still have those same advantages disadvantages sitting there and if we're gonna have a dialogue about it and we're really gonna make some type of changes that are going to benefit all people we got to get the bigger context of it.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: We've got to understand that fully and then examine the issue from there.
55:47
SPEAKER_01: And many people don't do that.
55:50
SPEAKER_01: We're in an age right now of sound bites sound bites and and we are um you know Twitter you know what we can learn on Twitter in 140 characters.
56:00
SPEAKER_01: And so we've got to um do a better job of of listening to one another's stories understanding each other's stories and then we can really um develop some lenses that will help us to make clearer decisions that are better for everyone.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: So we've covered a lot of ground in this we have I've enjoyed so just kind of to wrap up the the basic idea of what I'm trying to get at with this particular interview and with I think all of my interviews but this one specifically is just the value of of listening of empathizing with someone else's point of view of I guess the willingness and ability to listen without having to to have a comeback or have to have a yeah but this kind of thing is just understanding and experiencing someone else's story and accepting that and I guess it goes it really goes down to a what I would say a super important impulse in my heart which is I really feel like you can have a relationship with someone you can be friends with someone you can work with someone.
57:11
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to grant everything you know you don't even have to grant most things but you do have to value that person as a human who has things to contribute who has an important perspective who you are equal with in every way.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: And and the biggest thing is and I I I try to teach this to people and sometimes I I fail but your disagreement can't be based in my humanity.
57:34
SPEAKER_01: Exactly that's a wonderful way to put that okay so you can't disagree with my humanity and um you know I I love the title of your podcast Born to create and kind of one of the things is is with this work we're creating change.
57:52
SPEAKER_01: That's the biggest thing we're creating and and that's what God created me to um that's what I was born to create is is change and that change is based in loving people and that change is based in um listening to people and one of these days we'll we'll get there but until then everyone has work to do and so you know it's time for everyone to use whatever God born you know um um created you for use that to make this place better for everyone.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: Well Heather I really appreciate you taking time to do this today.
58:27
SPEAKER_00: I've learned a lot hopefully this has been well not hopefully I know this is this is really valuable and hope that listeners have enjoyed it.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: Great thank you I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Heather Fleming.
58:41
SPEAKER_00: I want to take a minute to share my three biggest takeaways.
58:44
SPEAKER_00: Number one, here are some questions to ask yourself these are questions I need to ask myself and I think these will be helpful to you as well.
58:52
SPEAKER_00: So these questions are do you love people?
58:55
SPEAKER_00: Do you love their stories and do you value them?
58:59
SPEAKER_00: Heather made a great point she said we don't know each other in general we have not fallen in love with each other.
59:06
SPEAKER_00: And that brings up a really great point that today we live in a time and an age where it seems like that we value other people less and less.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: So we've even despite the reaches of social media and the fact that we can connect with pretty much anybody, as human beings we seem more divided than ever.
59:24
SPEAKER_00: There seems to be more vitriol and more anger in culture than ever.
59:28
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not smart enough to figure out all the reasons why those things exist, but I do know that they do exist.
59:33
SPEAKER_00: So I need to ask myself the question do I truly value other people who are different than me?
59:39
SPEAKER_00: Do I value people of other races?
59:42
SPEAKER_00: Do I value people who don't believe the same things as me?
59:44
SPEAKER_00: Do I value people who who are just not like me in many ways?
59:49
SPEAKER_00: And the answer to that question has to be yes I love them.
59:54
SPEAKER_00: I love their stories I I love who they are as human beings.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: I value them and so I would ask you to search your heart in the same way as well are you curious about other people and their experiences?
1:00:05
SPEAKER_00: Are you curious about their stories?
1:00:07
SPEAKER_00: Do you believe in your heart that other people are as valuable as you are you know on the show many times I reference things that are from the world of movies and comic books and I'm sort of a sci-fi and comic book nerd and all those kinds of things and something that came to my mind when I was editing this episode is is a short little scene from the movie the 2005 movie Batman Begins.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: There's a great scene where Bruce Wayne is sitting with a crime boss and the crime boss I think it's his name is Falcone if I'm not mistaken he says you always fear what you don't understand.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_00: And man that is a great line not just out of a superhero movie but it's a a great line philosophically as well and it's so true to human nature that oftentimes we fear what we don't understand.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_00: And many times we fear others who are different than us because we don't understand them.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_00: We don't understand their stories we don't understand what drives them we don't understand where they came from and and what their life is like but what if we were to change that paradigm?
1:01:10
SPEAKER_00: What if instead of fearing other people who are different than us, we assume that their different experiences and their different perspective can actually help us to become more creative?
1:01:20
SPEAKER_00: What if we assume that people who are different than us can add something to our lives that we don't currently have they can add knowledge they can add their stories they can add a perspective that we don't have.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like that that thing from Jerry Maguire where the where he says you complete me what if instead we view other people as something to be feared and instead view them as something who someone who completes us in some way?
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: Just an interesting perspective I've been thinking about a lot lately and maybe that'll help you as well.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: Takeaway number two the work of diversity is by definition creative work.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm gonna just fully confess here as a as a white middle aged man I do not feel um what's the word I'm looking for I don't feel qualified at all to talk about this issue of diversity which is really a big reason why I wanted to do this episode is because I wanted to learn more about it and I fully understand that I have a limited perspective as as one man and so I want to expand that perspective and and just begin to um to learn more about this issue.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: But it was really interesting how Heather made that connection about how the work of diversity and the work of empathy and inclusion those are about creating change.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_00: It's about bringing about change in other people's hearts it's about creating love for other people it's about creating an environment where we can listen and we where we can empathize and where we can begin to value other people with different perspectives and people who are different than us.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_00: Diversity is about creating relationships it's about creating a better and a more beautiful world.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_00: Now I know some of you are listening to this and and you're like rah rah rah that's awesome that's great.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_00: Some other people probably have a more cynical bent and whenever I talk about things like building a more beautiful world and and creating a better place for all of us you know some people just kind of roll their eyes and they're cynical about that and and whatnot and and if that describes you if you are very cynical about these kinds of issues I just I want to challenge you to open your heart up and to drop your cynicism and to really ask why you're so cynical and maybe why you're so negative.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully not many people who are listening to this would put themselves in that category but if you do feel that way I would just challenge you to to ask the question why why do you feel cynical?
1:03:38
SPEAKER_00: Why do you have a negative event?
1:03:39
SPEAKER_00: Because I believe that as artists we are here to produce a better world.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_00: We're here to add value.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_00: And if we cannot add value to others, if we cannot produce a better world for ourselves and our kids and our grandkids and future generations, then what the heck is it all for anyway?
1:03:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean there's no point if there's no hope.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_00: And I believe that through our art and through who we are as creative people we can bring hope to the world.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I wanted to have this conversation today because we live in a time and a place where these these issues of diversity and empathy there and inclusion, these are really important issues that we need to to talk about and work through and as artists we have a unique way to do that.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_00: We can sort of come in the back door and through stories and through art and music and through our writing we can open up people's hearts in ways that politics and direct confrontation will never ever be able to do.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_00: So we are power players in this whole conversation those of us who are artists and creatives and we have a very important job to do and I'm so thankful for you guys who are listening to this show and supporting it because you are the world changers.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_00: You're the ones who can bring about this better world that we all want to see for our kids and our grandkids.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_00: Well I'm preaching now and it comes by honestly I was trained as a pastor so what can I say?
1:04:55
SPEAKER_00: Let's go on to takeaway number three which is just a simple idea of how you can make a difference today.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that we struggle with I think when it comes to when it comes to these big sort of cultural and societal issues is we think what can I do I'm just one person.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_00: You know I realize there's a huge need but what can I actually do?
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: And Heather made this statement that kind of in passing but it was such a a key statement she said if God has blessed you with the ability to walk where can you walk today?
1:05:27
SPEAKER_00: And that really got me thinking I thought okay what is something doable what's something simple that I can do to make a tangible difference in somebody's life I can't fix all the world's problems by myself no nobody can but we can do something you know we can't do everything but we can do something.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_00: So here's an idea that came to my mind based on Heather's suggestion what if sometime today before the day is out I don't know when you're listening to this it may be as soon as I release it or it may be months or years down the road who knows but here's a very simple idea whenever you're around somebody who's different than you this may be somebody of a different race somebody of a different age or background or ethnicity or whatever it is find that person who is different than you in your situation and make eye contact with that person and speak with them and be genuinely interested for 30 seconds.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying have a 20 minute conversation that may feel awkward and out of place if you've just met them, but can you commit to 30 seconds?
1:06:32
SPEAKER_00: I think we can all commit to a 30 second conversation about the weather about whatever it is that's around us about some situation about uh you know if you're in a donut shop talking about the donuts it doesn't matter what it is but the idea here is just making a genuine human connection with somebody who's different than you for 30 seconds.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_00: Can you do that today?
1:06:53
SPEAKER_00: I think I can do that today.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna try this as an experiment over the next few days and just kind of see how it works.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_00: It really all just comes down to putting this into practice of doing little things that make a tangible difference.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_00: Well guys those are my thoughts uh but I'd love to hear what you think about this episode perhaps more than any other episode that I've published I would really love to hear your thoughts.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_00: You can do that a couple different ways.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_00: First of all you can go to KentSanders.net slash zero nine one where you'll find the show notes and the links and also a place to make a comment on that post.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_00: You can also head over to Apple Podcasts and you can leave a rating and a review for the show which I greatly appreciate.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_00: Or you can just shoot me an email if you want to and share your thoughts with me privately.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_00: You can do that by sending a message to Kent at KentSanders.net.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_00: Well I want to thank Heather for taking the time out of her busy schedule to share in this amazing conversation.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed it and I learned so much.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_00: And if you enjoyed this episode please let her know by uh hitting her up on Twitter and shooting her a message.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_00: You can do that by sending it to her username which is at npurpose E A.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_00: That's at I N P-U-R-P-O-S-E-E-A.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_00: And finally thank you for listening to this episode.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate the time that you that you've invested into this into this podcast.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_00: Make sure to check out my free ultimate toolkit for creative entrepreneurs which is packed with 24 amazing resources to help you write and self-publish your book unlock your creative genius grow your business and become more productive you can find the free toolkit at kentstanders.net slash toolkit well I want to leave you with this powerful quote from Ralph Waldo Amerson who said every artist was first an amateur.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_00: Until next time remember that you were born to create and design to make a difference.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_00: Now go create something awesome