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Todd Kuckkahn: From Drifting to Deep Faith · Why I Believe

0:02
Hello and welcome back to Why I Believe.
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I'm your host, Michelle Von Ruden.
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And today I have Todd Kukon joining me.
0:09
How are you doing today, Todd?
0:12
Doing great, Michelle.
0:12
Good to see you.
0:13
Good to be on.
0:14
Yeah, it's so nice to have you.
0:15
You and I go way back, a few years, part of the Maxwell team together.
0:19
Why don't you go ahead and give us a brief introduction about yourself?
0:23
Absolutely.
0:24
Well, as you already kind of alluded to, I'm part of the John Maxwell team and it's been a long time that we've been together.
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We've been to the conference down there.
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Great.
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Great sessions, great leadership, also strong faith, which makes it a bonus.
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I'm currently the CEO at Midwest Hardware Association, an organization in Stevens Point, Wisconsin.
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Spent a lot of my life with the leadership and culture.
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I've done a lot of work in the nonprofit world, my degrees in teaching.
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I've got all kinds of things in my background.
0:54
Yeah, that's awesome.
0:58
Well, thank you again so much for being here today.
0:59
So one of the things I want to touch base on with you is that like me, you converted to Catholicism.
1:06
So I'm really interested to hear your story of how that happened.
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What made you take that leap and how it's been working for you?
1:13
Yeah, thanks, Michelle.
1:15
Yeah, it was, um, you know, from my perspective, it was dumb luck, but I know it was divine intervention that that led to it.
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But, um, yeah, I was born and raised Lutheran.
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In in the Madison Madison area my grandparents were very Lutheran from Watertown, Wisconsin a very Lutheran community and like some people maybe many people kind of drifted
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away from the Lutheran faith is in the college, you know my college years and wasn't very committed to the faith and uh took a job down at the University of Wisconsin Platteville
1:49
as a basketball coach and Met this young lady, which is a whole nother interesting story, but
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met this young lady and we hit it off.
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I had a lot of fun together.
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And I knew that she was a very strong Catholic.
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Her mother taught in the Catholic schools.
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Her father would be one that would go up afterwards and take the bread and take it out to people in the community who couldn't get to church.
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They went to Catholic schools, a very faith-based family.
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But it was at a time when I knew I really needed some guidance.
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I needed some guidance.
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I needed faith to be more important.
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more central part of my life.
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So that's where the divine intervention comes in.
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God puts in front of you who he wants to, when you need it most.
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And I went through a process, an education training process, I guess, to become fully Catholic.
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And we were married in the Catholic Church and I've been a member of the Catholic faith since then.
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We've taken our children through the different steps of the Catholic faith as well.
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And now continuing, I've...
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continue, I feel like I've continued to elevate my spirituality through people I've come in contact with, like God's brought in front of me and through a lot of my reading and
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commitments and priorities and habits.
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That's awesome.
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You said that through your reading, so what books are you reading right now that are really helping you explore deep in your faith?
3:15
One of my favorite authors besides John Maxwell, course, is, uh or two of them, I should say, Matthew Kelly.
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Matthew Kelly's with the name of Catholic.
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And then Craig Grishel, who started a life church, and actually we both heard Craig speak as part of Live to Lead and heard about his kind of accidental story into becoming a
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spiritual leader.
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But I read a lot of Matthew Kelly and Craig Grishel's things.
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Once in a while I listen to a podcast with Len coming up.
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I'll be listening to more of Matthew Kelly.
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I do a lot of reading.
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do a...
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Every day I've got two different books.
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I call them calendar books.
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know, the books where every day there's a page maybe that you read a scripture and then kind of an interpretation of that through their lives.
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So I read those on a regular basis.
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And of course the Bible I'm also subscribed to.
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It's called Catechism in a Year by Father Mike.
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I just got done last year.
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I went through the Bible in a year with him.
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And this year I'm going through the Catechism in a Year.
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Just try to keep, you know, keep it central in my life.
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It's, you know, it's all about, and I learned this through the Maxwell team, is what we pour into our brains that makes a difference.
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If we pour, you know, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, Fox into our brain, we get that junk back, right?
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But if we're poor spiritual readings, biblical readings, passages, and from what others are saying, it really can change our outlook on life.
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And think that's really been a huge impact on me as well.
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Yeah, it's part of the RAS system, right?
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Don't ask me what RAS stands for, but I know that's the term, the acronym, and it really says you find what you're looking for.
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Right?
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I equate that to when you buy a new car and you're like, oh, nobody has this car.
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And you pull off the lot and there's like 10 that drive by, right?
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Because you weren't looking for it before, but now all of sudden they're everywhere.
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So what you thought was unique, isn't really unique.
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And so when you do that and you think about it, not only in terms of your faith, but also like positivity, right?
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There's so much negativity in this world right now.
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We can find it every way we look.
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But when you start looking for the good, you start to see more good.
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Just like when you start exploring and talking about your faith, you start to find more people who are aligned and like hearted with you.
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And I think that's really, that's exactly right.
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And that's, that's, that's happened to me.
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had, I had somebody come in my office when I was at, I ran the chamber of commerce here and he came in my office and wanted to do a leadership, a live to lead as you know, live
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to lead is, but he wanted to do that through the chamber.
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And I said, well, you have to be a member.
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So we worked out an arrangement, we were able to promote it, but he had a very strong, he has, excuse me, he has a very strong faith.
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And Tom and I get together every six weeks or so and kind of share what's on in our lives, share our spiritual journey, talk about how that's impacted our kids and another gentleman
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too.
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So yeah, people come into your life, you start seeing that car that's the same as the car you had, like you said, it's interesting how that works.
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It definitely is.
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So you mentioned before you told us about
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when you converted to Catholicism, but you said at that point that you knew something was missing, but you said right away that you needed to get into your faith.
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How did you know when it was time to take that step?
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Because I think a lot of people feel like something's missing, right?
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So we go when we find it in bad relationships, we find it in achievements, we find it in reaching the next best thing, but then we realize that we're never satisfied, right?
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Because we're tying our identity to all the wrong things.
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So how did you know?
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Like what was that ticking time bomb or what was that moment where you're like, oh, it's my faith that's missing.
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This is what I need to upgrade.
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That's an amazing question.
6:58
Um, yeah, I just, I guess I didn't feel like I had any real direction.
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So I was in my, at this point in my life, I was in my later twenties.
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Um, I was living in the basement of the athletic director, UW Pladville, which was, which was a blessing because we weren't paid a lot as assistant coaches.
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They were a very spiritual family.
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heard them go to church.
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You can hear them walking upstairs.
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I heard them going to church every Sunday.
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And being around my wife and being around her family, it's like, holy cow, this is, you know, it just, wasn't like something, you know, like a brick fell on my head type of
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thing.
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It was just all these repetitive, small, simple messages about you need to be here, you need to be here, you need to be here, you need to be a part of this.
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You need to listen to what's being said.
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I would go to church with a...
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with my wife's family when I wasn't yet a full member of the Catholic Church.
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And it was always kind of awkward because you don't go up and take the bread of life, you don't take the wine, you don't need, you all the different rituals you're not a part of,
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but you're still a part of the spirituality of being in that church and being surrounded with these people.
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I saw people in church that I knew from on campus.
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So I like, just continually got this, you know, it's kind of drizzled on me like chocolate or something, but it kept getting drizzled on me like, okay, Todd, you're with the right
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people now.
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This is where you need to be and accept it.
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And of course, you know, falling in love with my, uh at that time girlfriend, now my wife, that made a huge difference too, because then I knew I had to make a commitment.
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I had to actually make a commitment.
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And I did it with, you know.
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She didn't have to yank me by the ear into the office of the priest.
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I knew it was the right thing to do at that point in time.
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I guess the feeling in my heart and soul was there that this is just it.
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And I kept getting all these multiple messages and then kind of culminated with our wedding, the Catholic wedding.
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then, like I said, our life since then.
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Yeah.
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And how many years have you guys been married now?
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Just curious.
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geez.
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uh Thirty-seven.
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It'll be 37.
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Man, oh man, that's the toughest question you've asked, right?
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That should be the easiest question I asked, It's a lot.
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Congratulations, that's a long time.
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That's a long time.
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Yeah, it is.
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Not as long as my parents.
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My mom just passed away, but my parents were married for 75 years.
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So that's quite a, that's a real record.
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Ooh, 75 years.
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That is a long time.
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Yeah, and I'm sorry to hear about your mom.
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I know we have chatted, but yes.
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Yeah, thank you.
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Appreciate that.
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But I guess, you you I'm sorry, but you bring that up and and I think Because of my faith I was better able to handle to handle that I mean like as I was growing up my parents
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would talk anything about Death or any, know, I would just like I just break down and with my mom I did I did have one, you know one kind of point where I kind of broke down knowing
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that she was passing but I had I had kind of I had a piece in my heart because She had been struggling with dementia
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And I knew that, you know, I was praying, she was praying, we were praying for her, you know, to go to heaven and to be saved.
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And I just had that peace in my heart that while it certainly is very sad, but she was struggling with some dementia and she, you know, was kind of failing health-wise down
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towards the end.
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But just knowing in my heart of hearts that she was going to be taken care of even better than she was while she was here on earth.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and I think that does give you that extra little bit of peace, right?
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Knowing that she's in a better place and she's happy and not feeling sick and unwell anymore.
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Like she wasn't at the end here.
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All right.
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So, Todd, what ways has God showed up in your life?
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Some people call him Godwinks.
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I call them miracles.
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How has he shown up and how has he helped deepen your faith through them?
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Well, was at an event
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This is quite a few years ago, probably early in our marriage, so it probably about 30 years ago.
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And it was a motivational kind of conference thing that I went to.
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A friend invited me and I was learning at that point, this is when I was, you know, still kind of, I converted to Catholic faith.
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I was still, you know, figuring things out, looking for people in life.
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And then another Tom, the other person I mentioned was Tom, there's another Tom, had shown up at this point.
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But we went to this event and I knew it was a faith
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know, faith-centered event too, besides being motivational and how to run a business and that kind of thing.
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And uh they asked people to step forward who wanted to accept Christ in their life.
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And I had done that before and, you know, I was in the Catholic faith, so I was part of the Catholic Church.
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we were standing up and I was watching people go forward and I took a step, just a step forward in my place.
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And I was praying about my back because I'd hurt my back.
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Interestingly enough by walking, but then I lifted weights the wrong way and all that happened.
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But anyway, I stepped forth and I asked for healing and my back was healed.
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I mean, it was this amazing, just calm.
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I'm kind of like, you it's like you believe, but it's like, okay, really?
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so I kind of, you know, I'm kind of moving and
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It's like, yeah, and was, so as soon as I got home, I hugged my wife and told her what had happened and she's like, holy cow, that's amazing.
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But one of those things that I didn't necessarily need something like that, but it certainly further made me understand the importance of your faith and how God will answer
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your asks.
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And every morning now I have a, it's called P-R-A-Y, praise, repent, ask and yield.
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And part of the asking, I asked for different things.
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And if you dream big, you pray hard, and you have that faith, God will bring good things into your life.
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No, absolutely.
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And I think that's a good point.
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We don't need those things, but they're very nice to have.
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I don't know, have you watched the show, The Chosen, by Angel Studios?
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No, not by I've seen clips of it.
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I haven't seen it.
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I need to watch it.
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Yeah, I've just seen clips of it.
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OK, so we're starting to binge watch.
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And I don't usually do this, but this is a really good show.
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It's called The Chosen.
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I'm sorry.
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It's not on Angel, on 5-2.
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And one of the things that I keep thinking about as he's going out and he's with the disciples and the apostles and they're going out performing these miracles.
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And it's like, how much easier is that for someone to believe when he's right there in front of you and doing these things in front of you so you can see it?
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Right?
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But then I stop and think and I think about all the times that he's touched my life in those ways.
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just like he touched yours and it's right in front of us except for he's not physically there.
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And I think that's the only real difference but that's part of the reason why this podcast is here and it's so helpful because when we start hearing the stories of how he is showing
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up in everyday lives of everyday ordinary people, you start to compound and it's like, oh, he really is here.
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Maybe not physically but spiritually we start to see it it just.
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It just becomes so overwhelming in which in a good way, right?
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Because now you're like, okay, it's not just me.
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Yeah.
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You know, I start wondering how to explain all these things, right?
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And then you just said the word I was going to say it's a lot about wonderment.
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I think like, you know, how absence makes a heart grow fonder.
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I think the fact that we have to wonder and have that faith that he's actually there without touching.
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necessarily touching and seeing him like, you know, when Jesus walked the planet.
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I think that helps really amplify that faith.
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Because if you're a believer and you don't see it, right, that makes, I think that makes that faith even stronger, that wonderment about it.
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But you know he's there and he's done things for us.
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So that helps cement that.
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that, I think, I wish I could remember exactly how this person said it, but he said, you know, if
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If Jesus came back once a year, there probably wouldn't be the belief in faith because it's like, yeah, he's there.
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And we kind of like, you know, we nonchalant it so to speak, but that, that wonderment and that building of that faith, I think that really helps us even become stronger, a stronger
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connection.
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Yeah.
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And it really is the faith, right?
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Faith that there, that there, that he's there, faith that he's in your life.
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You know, we're Catholic, we believe in the Trinity, right?
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And so...
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What other ways has he shown up in your life?
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I know he helped you with your marriage.
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He came in at a time that was great.
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He helped you at a conference.
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What are the things that he's doing day to day that aren't necessarily blockbuster, but show that he's still with you?
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I think I pray a lot for safe travel because we're driving a lot, chasing our grandson around.
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I coach him.
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We're chasing him around the state.
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Just simple things like safe travel because it's just with vehicles and just a simple thing like that.
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And we've been really blessed with safe travel.
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I try not to pray for transactional stuff.
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So I don't pray for my grandson to win this tournament.
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I pray for my grandson and his team to give their best and play their best.
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Because I think...
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Sometimes, you know, like after a football game, we hear the guys say, you know, I praise Jesus for helping us.
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Well, I don't know, that seems to me a little transactional.
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I think he helped you play your best and do your best at that moment in time.
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um Because there are many people on that field that are praying for him to help them, right?
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But it's all about that.
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So little things like that.
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This job, I know this isn't a little thing, but you know, I've been praying in my business for many years to give me a solid
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solid financial footing and because of what I did for four years in my business I was able to get this position that I have and continue to do work in my business because I'm
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continuing to doing some leadership training and culture work and workshops and things so he not only you know helped me in my business but he amplified it by giving me this this
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job that that has different challenges and opportunities every day too and he's helping along the way there because I pray every day I shouldn't say every day I pray regularly
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you know, please help me in my job to help the people get the most out of their positions and help build our business.
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you know, so I try again, like I said, I try not to be a transactional more transformational, but in my everyday prayer, I, I, I asked for those things that can
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little things that can kind of help us along the journey.
18:06
Yeah.
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And I think that's great because as you said, everybody is praying, right?
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And so
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Hey, I want to win the game too, right?
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But we give glory to him when we win, right?
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Because we know that he let us come out and be our best version of ourselves.
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Well, I guess another example, since you mentioned that.
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I'll, you know, like when I'm doing a presentation, a workshop or something, I'll pray beforehand to please, you know, help me impact the people that are in the live to lead
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session, whatever the case might be.
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And then afterwards I try right away, sometimes I don't right away.
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But I pray and say, thank you for, you know, for giving me that opportunity.
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And usually some, you know how it is, someone will come up, that one person will come up afterwards and say something to you and just like, okay, that's God giving me an answer
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and that makes it all worthwhile.
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I know I may not impact all 50 or hundred or 500 people in the room, but if I can, if I know I can impact a couple and God brings them up to talk to me, I think that's awesome.
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Yeah, that is amazing.
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I've had that experience too, right?
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And that was actually at a faith conference that I spoke at.
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And so that was very, um, it was a lot cause it caught me off guard, right?
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I think that was the first time somebody had come up to me and said that I made a difference in an impact that they're changing the way they're going to live based on
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something I said, which it was, right?
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Like that message clearly came from upstairs.
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I was just the one who delivered it.
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So yeah.
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And I think it's great.
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And one of the things I do to tattoo is I,
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start off my morning with transformation and then my end my night with thank you for the day.
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Thank you for everything that you gave me because right.
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We just can't keep asking and asking and asking.
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We have to give back and that's building that relationship.
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That's thinking for the things that we've received too.
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Yeah.
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My, actually my, my word for the year, I always do the one word and my word for the year is servant.
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So I want to be a better servant.
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want to be, I want to give more.
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want to show more gratitude and yeah, share, share what I've been given.
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with others as often as I can.
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Yeah, so what are some of the things that you're doing with intention to be that servant?
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Right, because he calls all of us to be disciples.
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So what are you doing with intent?
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I'm sharing more like on Facebook and LinkedIn.
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When there are biblical verses, occasionally I'll share those.
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um I, you know, this is very sound cutting weird, but like...
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You know, people, you get the chance to, can like something or love it or, you know, there's four or five different options.
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And I'm really picky about when I use a heart.
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I use a heart from my family stuff and I use a heart from my face stuff.
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I don't just love random things, right?
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Like some, and that's fine if people do, I'm not trying to judge, but so I, so I, so I do those, I do those types of things.
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I'm also, I'm, and this is maybe transactional, but I'm tipping, I'm tipping more.
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Cause I know people who are working in restaurants are working their tails off.
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I tip typically if I'm in a hotel room, I'll leave maybe, you know, $10 for the person who cleans the room, but trying to give away more in that way too, in my tithing.
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With this job now I've increased some of my giving to different organizations like Matthew Kelly's organization and some other things.
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So, and it's just, it's, mean, it's like, it keeps coming.
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It keeps coming back to me, which is, mean, which is, I don't do it because of that.
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But I do it knowing that if I can help others, others hopefully will have that servant card for me as well.
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Yeah.
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And I think that's so good because how many times have you been on the receiving end of something just a little bit extra special that has totally changed your day?
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Yeah.
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Right.
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I remember one time I walked in, I had to get a battery for my watch changed out and I went to hand, I went to pay for it.
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I handed the guy my USAA card, which for those who aren't familiar, it's for military and their families.
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So
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my both my parents are veterans.
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And he's like, Oh, are you a vet?
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And I said, no, my parents were and he's like, Oh, you're military too.
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He's like, have a good day.
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And he didn't charge me and it wasn't and it was like a $5 battery.
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Right.
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But it wasn't, I was having a really bad day that day too.
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So that helped change the scope of the rest of my day.
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So when I went to the grocery store next, that wasn't a lighter, happier, cheerier mood, right?
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It's just those little things that we do that extra little tip.
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that actual little thing that we do that helps brighten somebody else's day.
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And like I said earlier in the podcast, it's the rest, right?
22:34
You find the positivity you keep looking for, right?
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And it keeps spreading.
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It's like, yeah, when I go to a store, go to Cripship a lot because they have Sundrop.
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And there's a whole other story with that and my grandpa.
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But anyway, I always, you know, I always make sure I open the door for people.
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And sometimes you get the funniest look like what?
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You're opening the door, you know, but yeah, just little things trying to, trying to
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And I'm not trying to break my arm patting myself in the back, but all those little things matter to me too.
23:02
Because like you said, that person gave you the battery and it was a little thing, but it changed the whole direction of your day.
23:12
And that's part of that positivity.
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What are you filling your mind with?
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You noticed that that person said that to you and it really changed the direction of your day.
23:23
Absolutely.
23:26
I did have one question for you.
23:27
So you and I have talked before and you were talking about a comment that your grandma made at your wedding reception.
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What was that comment?
23:33
What was the story behind that?
23:35
Yeah, yeah.
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The things are reminding me.
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Well, again, my grandma was from Watertown, Wisconsin and very staunch Lutheran community.
23:43
Matter of fact, they had two different, I don't know what they call them, but two different sectors or two different Lutheran groups or whatever.
23:49
can't think of the word right now, but anyway, but very Lutheran, right?
23:54
and she came to uh a Catholic wedding, right?
23:57
And obviously, I'm gonna invite my grandma, that's not the story.
24:01
But we're at the reception and uh it was actually as a side note, it was the most fun I ever had without drinking.
24:08
So I didn't have a single drop to drink at my wedding and it was an absolute blast.
24:12
anyway, I'm standing there, because we had to drive to Chicago, standing there with my grandma, Grandma Mabel.
24:17
uh she says, know Todd, doesn't matter.
24:22
whether you're Lutheran or whether you're Catholic, all gonna end up in the same place in heaven.
24:26
And I thought, you know, that just, talk about a comment, right, for somebody to say to you.
24:31
That just like, that blew my mind.
24:33
I mean, it was just, I told my wife right away and I drive down to Chicago after the reception.
24:38
But just a really neat way to say it.
24:40
It's like, you know what, we're all in this together.
24:42
We're all trying to achieve that journey to heaven.
24:47
We get there maybe a little different way through a different faith, but we're all going that same direction.
24:52
just, yeah, it really touched me.
24:54
And it's something I obviously remembered.
24:56
Yeah, that's beautiful.
25:00
All right, Todd, I'm going to put you on the spot and I'm going to ask you one last question.
25:04
OK.
25:06
What is your favorite Bible verse?
25:11
John 3.16.
25:14
gosh, now I'm not going to remember.
25:16
God so loved the world all that he gave us.
25:17
Only begotten Help me to die for us.
25:21
Yep, you got it.
25:23
Is that okay?
25:24
Yeah.
25:25
I'm not good at, you know what?
25:26
I gotta tell you one thing that people say that, you know, to have a strong faith, you need to memorize Bible verses.
25:32
I'm horrible at memorizing stuff.
25:34
So I, every day that verse, I read that that verse every day for I don't know how many years and I still can't get it all right.
25:41
But, that's a
25:43
That's one of my favorites.
25:45
And I always liked the guy ah for people my age, we'll remember back in the NBA and other sporting events, this guy with the rainbow wig he put on and he held up a sign and it said
25:58
John 316.
25:59
And he was at all these different major sporting events and always held up that sign.
26:04
So I remember that from him as well.
26:06
Awesome.
26:08
Cool.
26:09
Well, thank you so much for your time today, Todd.
26:10
I really appreciate having you here and coming on and sharing your story with us.
26:14
Is there anything that you want the listeners to know?
26:18
One last piece of advice or words of wisdom?
26:21
You kind of said it earlier.
26:23
Be intentional.
26:25
If you want to grow, whether it's in your faith or any part of your life, you have to be intentional.
26:29
You have to be focused on it and start small.
26:33
You don't have to read the entire Bible in a day.
26:36
Read a page a day.
26:38
Might take you a couple of years, that's fine.
26:39
Whatever, you know, but be intentional about changing your life, about growing your faith and getting a stronger uh connection.
26:47
And listen to your podcast, I guess, will be the other tip.
26:51
Like I like that.
26:52
Yeah, the Bible in a Year by Father Mike Schmitz is a really good one.
26:56
think most of the episodes are less than 30 minutes.
26:59
I listen to it at regular speed.
27:01
know when you told me you're like, I turned it up a notch and that's cool too.
27:04
it up to two.
27:06
you went two notches.
27:07
Okay.
27:07
yeah.
27:07
So, nope, I'm at regular speed.
27:09
I'm living it.
27:10
So it's really good.
27:11
But, um, there, and I know there's lots of things like that out there where it just gives you a little bit every day and just helps you build that faith and that trust.
27:21
We all have time to prioritize the things that are important and create those habits.
27:25
Absolutely.
27:27
Well, thank you so much, Todd.
27:28
appreciate you and I look forward to seeing you soon.
27:31
Great.
27:31
Sounds good, Michelle.
27:32
Congratulations on all your great work.
27:34
Thank you.