Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / BYO Device to School (a Q&A)

Transcript

BYO Device to School (a Q&A) · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Good day.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Are kids screens, devices
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: and school? How do we make the call when the
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: school says, oh, your child is now old enough to
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  Speaker 2: have a device, and we're struggling with whether we do
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: or don't want them to have one, All of a
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  Speaker 2: sudden that decision is taken from us. Today, it's one
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  Speaker 2: of your tricky questions. We answer that next. Hello, Welcome
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: to the Happy Families podcast. Real parenting Solutions every single day.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: It's Australia's most download of parenting podcast. We are Justin
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: and Kylie Coulson. We're parents, have six daughters, and today
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: it's another tricky question. Here's how tricky questions work. You
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: send us a voice note to podcasts at happy families
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: dot com dot you, or alternatively, you can jump onto
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: happy Families dot com dot you, scroll down to the
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: super simple system, press the record button and start talking.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: It's that easy. Let us know what's on your mind
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: and we will do every thing that we can to
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: answer the question. Today's question, Kylie comes in from Luke. Unfortunately,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: there's something that went wrong as he was recording the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: voice notes, so we've only got the first half of it.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: But we know where it's going, we know what's about
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  Speaker 2: here is what Luke wants to know.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, justin. But I recently started a great little Christian school.
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  Speaker 1: It's a great little community. But one issue I have
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: with the school is it has to bring your own
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  Speaker 1: device policy from kindergarten. During my interview with the principal
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  Speaker 1: before sending my daughter, I raised my concerns about the
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  Speaker 1: use of technology at the school and he started referring
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  Speaker 1: to some of your work as how they guide their
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  Speaker 1: decision making around using technology. I understand that you are
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  Speaker 1: against bring your own device policies from primary school.
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  Speaker 2: Oh and unfortunately after that the recording kind of died
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  Speaker 2: a little bit, Higlie. But Luke's basically saying, hmm, kindergarten, kindergarten,
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  Speaker 2: first year of school. I have never heard that it
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  Speaker 2: happens in some schools, So let me. I don't want
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  Speaker 2: to throw the school principle onto the bus here. And
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  Speaker 2: there's so much nuance in what's really going on with
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  Speaker 2: kids and tech in schools. You're looking at me with
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  Speaker 2: eyes wide up and like, oh my goodness, what's you going.
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  Speaker 3: To say that's going to be bad.
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  Speaker 2: I just don't think kids need devices in kindergarten, full
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  Speaker 2: stop and a story. I just I think there is
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  Speaker 2: zero justification for it. I'm so sorry to the school
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  Speaker 2: leaders who are not aligned with me on that one. Now,
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  Speaker 2: Luke did say very carefully. Well, I don't know if
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  Speaker 2: he's been careful about it or not, but I certainly
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  Speaker 2: heard care in his words using my ideas to guide
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  Speaker 2: technology policy. So just because kids have got devices from kindergarten,
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  Speaker 2: my ideas to guide technology policy are even more important
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  Speaker 2: if that's the case, because my big idea is keep
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  Speaker 2: it out of their lives for as long as you
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  Speaker 2: possibly can. But if you want to use good ideas
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  Speaker 2: to guide technology policy, let's talk about some of those
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  Speaker 2: right now, Kylie, any initial thoughts though, you're just looking
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  Speaker 2: at me like your I didn't tell you what the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: question was going to be today. I brought you in
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  Speaker 2: here without highlighting it anything on your mind.
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  Speaker 3: Just like I said, I've never heard of kids in
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  Speaker 3: kindergarten having to bring their own device. Firstly, and secondly,
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  Speaker 3: it just feels like I'm I in trouble. It just
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  Speaker 3: feels like lazy teaching.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm not going to throw the teachers under
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  Speaker 2: the bar. So all the principles here because I know
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  Speaker 2: how hard they work. So let's talk about these issues.
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  Speaker 2: First off, there are some schools who are bringing technology
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  Speaker 2: into kids' lives, very very young, the best schools in
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  Speaker 2: the country, and I'm speaking a lot of principals conferences
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  Speaker 2: around the country. My experience in speaking with them is
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  Speaker 2: that the best schools in the country are reducing and
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  Speaker 2: even removing devices, especially from the early years of school.
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  Speaker 2: So I would suggest that there's a stronger argument for
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  Speaker 2: removing it or reducing it than for bringing it in,
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  Speaker 2: particularly in those first couple of years, those first two, three,
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  Speaker 2: four years of school. Really concerning the second thing that
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  Speaker 2: I would say is this, the central reason that I'm
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  Speaker 2: opposed to early BYOD usage or early kids on screens
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  Speaker 2: is because it it introduces conflict and tension at home.
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  Speaker 2: You've got this child who you didn't ask for the device,
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  Speaker 2: the school has imposed it on you. Now you're going
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  Speaker 2: to have your child wanting to use the device not
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  Speaker 2: just for schoolwork, but for usage that stretches well beyond
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  Speaker 2: what the school has advised. And now this becomes a
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  Speaker 2: parenting problem that you didn't ask for, you didn't invite
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  Speaker 2: it in, but now you're stuck with it, and to me,
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  Speaker 2: that feels like an unfair imposition that a school places
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  Speaker 2: on a family. I just don't think that's fair. The
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  Speaker 2: last thing that I want to highlight before I get
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  Speaker 2: into the educational aspect is this, we have got dozens,
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  Speaker 2: literally dozens of executives at the biggest technology companies in
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  Speaker 2: the world who send their children to schools where there
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  Speaker 2: are no devices or there are strict controls around devices. Overwhelmingly,
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  Speaker 2: they know what these devices do, and they do everything
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  Speaker 2: they can to keep their children away from them. So
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  Speaker 2: they're quite happy to take our money. They're quite happy
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  Speaker 2: for our children to become compulsive users of the software
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  Speaker 2: and the hardware that they've developed, but they absolutely don't
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  Speaker 2: want their children on these devices. And many of them
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  Speaker 2: will even admit that they were brought up in homes
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  Speaker 2: where there were very strict rules around screens and device
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  Speaker 2: usage because their parents were worried about it, and they
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  Speaker 2: are too. So then my basic comments before we step
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  Speaker 2: into the education stuff, I do really want to emphasize
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  Speaker 2: that there is nuance here beyond what I've just said.
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  Speaker 2: So after the break, let's step into what research shows
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  Speaker 2: about kids and tech. In schools. Stay with us, We're back.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast. Today we're talking about kids,
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  Speaker 2: tech and schools.
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  Speaker 3: So is there any evidence that devices in primary classrooms
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  Speaker 3: is actually beneficial?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I would be saying, is there any evidence that
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  Speaker 2: BWAOD is beneficial kids taking those devices home? And there
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  Speaker 2: just isn't. But even in the school context, there are
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  Speaker 2: too many variables, And the answer actually goes both ways.
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  Speaker 2: The answer is, and I know that everyone hates when
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  Speaker 2: I say this, but it depends what do I mean
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  Speaker 2: by that? So what makes for a great learning environment?
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  Speaker 2: We want children who are going to be involved in
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  Speaker 2: higher order thinking. We want children who are going to
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  Speaker 2: be involved in collaborative work. We want kids who are
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  Speaker 2: going to be evaluating and synthesizing and explaining and presenting
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: and wrestling with ideas and exploring ideas and all those
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  Speaker 2: kinds of things. So you can do all of those
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  Speaker 2: things without screens, And I would argue you'll usually do
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  Speaker 2: them better without screens. But you can do all of
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  Speaker 2: those things with screens. You can do all those things
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  Speaker 2: with AI. And I don't mean you get AI to
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  Speaker 2: do it. I mean you get AI to give you
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  Speaker 2: some output and then you sit down as a class,
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  Speaker 2: or you sit down as a group, and you go
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  Speaker 2: through the research, you go through the evaluation. You pull
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  Speaker 2: a whole lot of different resources together and synthesize them
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  Speaker 2: and come up with a cogent argument. And kids can
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  Speaker 2: do this from early primary years. It's obviously got to
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  Speaker 2: be developmently appropriate. It sounds like I'm talking about senior students,
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  Speaker 2: but you can do these kinds of higher order thinking
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  Speaker 2: tasks at developmentally appropriate level with kinder first grade, second grade,
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  Speaker 2: third grade kids.
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  Speaker 3: But to what end? What are we trying to achieve?
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  Speaker 2: That's what education is about. It's about presenting ideas and
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  Speaker 2: getting kids to wrestle with them and play with them.
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  Speaker 2: At five absolutely, yeah, for sure, it's fun. I'd much
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: rather than be playing outside and climbing. But you can
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  Speaker 2: present them with different social situations and help them to
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  Speaker 2: learn how to resolve conflict. You can put them into
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  Speaker 2: all kinds of delightfully challenging situations at any age and
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  Speaker 2: watch as they collaborate and problem solve and develop solutions.
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  Speaker 2: That's called learning.
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  Speaker 3: Yep. But at that age they're always like hands on,
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  Speaker 3: face to face Chris always going to be better, I.
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  Speaker 2: Would argue, that it's going to be better as well.
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  Speaker 2: Research shows though, that really intentional, careful teachers can use
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  Speaker 2: technology to amplify and improve the experience. My concern is
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  Speaker 2: that for the most part, that's not what happens. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: we've got a daughter who's being homeschooled and a lot
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  Speaker 2: of the work that she has to do according to
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  Speaker 2: the UK we use yuka hashtag not sponsored. In fact,
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  Speaker 2: I'm about to really bag them out for a second.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of the stuff that's in their curriculum that's
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  Speaker 2: done on screens is mindless. Frankly, I'd go so far
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  Speaker 2: as to say useless work, and we just have to
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  Speaker 2: get it done because we've got to get that box
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  Speaker 2: tick so that we can say that we've completed the curriculum,
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  Speaker 2: so that the people in the government organization that monitor
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  Speaker 2: homeschooling know that our kids have been doing their homeschooling work.
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  Speaker 2: So we're using tech because tech is the vehicle, but
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  Speaker 2: it's not beneficial. We do much better work with her
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  Speaker 2: away from the tech. She does really cool stuff outside
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  Speaker 2: of that, and then we've got to fload it all
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  Speaker 2: into the text so that we can prove to them
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  Speaker 2: that we've done all this other work. What am I
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  Speaker 2: really getting at here? I don't want to waffle too much.
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  Speaker 2: Let's get back to the question, Luke, I would be
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  Speaker 2: saying this, Can the school demonstrate the value of having
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  Speaker 2: the technology both in the classroom and at home? And
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  Speaker 2: can the device stay at school if there is no
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  Speaker 2: value to bringing at home. If there's value, then go
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  Speaker 2: with it, work with it, and set defined limits around it.
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  Speaker 2: But if the school can't genuinely demonstrate value, then I
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  Speaker 2: just don't buy it. I don't think that there's a
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  Speaker 2: need for us to have technology in classrooms, especially from
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  Speaker 2: those first couple of years of primary school. I think
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  Speaker 2: that it's not ideal at all.
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  Speaker 3: For me. It actually comes down to a value clash.
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  Speaker 3: If this is ironclad, this is what's expected, and it
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  Speaker 3: goes against everything you, as a parent believe and feel
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  Speaker 3: is good for your child. No matter how great the
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  Speaker 3: school is, it actually feels like it's not the right
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  Speaker 3: fit for your family.
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  Speaker 2: Do you know what. I'm listening to what you're saying there,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm thinking if our kids were starting in your
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  Speaker 2: school and the teacher said that all of our first
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  Speaker 2: and second and third grade kids were going to be
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  Speaker 2: on devices i'd be finding in your school. That might
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  Speaker 2: sound a little bit harsh, and I'm not telling you
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  Speaker 2: to do that. Look by any stretch, I'm not advising that.
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  Speaker 2: But as you've said, Kylie, this is a question of values,
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  Speaker 2: and based on our values, i'd just say no.
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  Speaker 3: Every day we're placed in positions where we have to
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  Speaker 3: make decisions, there's tension points, and you and I are
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: going through it right now with some big decisions we're
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: trying to make. And what has been really really helpful
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  Speaker 3: for me personally as we've done that is to actually
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  Speaker 3: be really clear about what our priority is. And once
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: you have that clarity, then when you put any decision
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: through the filter, if it doesn't meet the priority, then
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  Speaker 3: it's a no brainer.
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  Speaker 2: Well, Luke, we probably put the cat amongst the pigeons
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  Speaker 2: with that one. But thanks for your question. We love
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: your tricky questions. If you've got one, send it through
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: to us via Happy families dot com dot you Just
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: scroll down to our super simple system that we've got
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: on the website, press the record button to start talking. Alternatively,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: send us a voice note to podcasts at happy families
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: dot com dot au. Thank you so much for listening.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: We hope that it gave you some food for thought,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: and we can't wait to be with you again tomorrow
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: for another episode of the Happy Families podcast, which is
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: produced by Justin ruland from Bridge Media additional support from Mimhammond's.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: For more and far about making your family happier, visit
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot au