Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Kitchen Nightmares: Avoid These Red Flags at All Costs Ep. 74
Transcript
- 0:00Hello Chefs, This is Chefs PSA Podcast.
- 0:02I'm your host, Andre Natera. On today's episode we're going
- 0:04to talk about red flags for chefs and for cooks.
- 0:07Stay tuned. This episode of Chefs PSA is
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- 1:06They've always stood with me. Go to jrmanufacturing.com to
- 1:09learn more. Before we get started, I'm going
- 1:11to give you all a brief update. I have some new merch just came
- 1:14out. Chef's PSA.
- 1:16Merch established 2022 because that's when I started Chef's
- 1:20PSA. So there's a hoodie, there's a
- 1:22T-shirt. It has a stoic face, straight
- 1:26faced chef on it. Go get it.
- 1:29Wear it with pride. Show some support for your
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- 1:34It's Christmas season, so go to chefspsa.com where you could get
- 1:38the merge including those new hoodies and T-shirts, the books
- 1:42Culinary Leadership Fundamentals Line Cook Survival Manual.
- 1:45Which by the way, if you didn't know, both of those are Amazon
- 1:48Bestsellers Best selling author two Times Now, How Not to Be the
- 1:52Biggest Idiot in the Kitchen Kitchen, Art of War and Bad Sue,
- 1:56Good Chef. Speaking of Bad Sue, Good Chef,
- 1:59I'm in the process of writing the next book.
- 2:01I'm tentatively calling it Bad Cooks Everywhere, and it will be
- 2:04in that same series of The Bad Sue Good Chef.
- 2:07So make sure you go read that book first before you read this
- 2:09one to provide context. But I'm already working on that
- 2:13and let's see how long set your watch.
- 2:14Let's see how long it takes me to get this done.
- 2:16I redesigned the cover and I put it up on my Instagram today
- 2:19because the first cover that was like animated style didn't get
- 2:22enough feedback on it that it was the one.
- 2:25So I redesigned it, changed the name.
- 2:27So originally it was bad cooks, bad chefs.
- 2:30Now it's just bad cooks everywhere.
- 2:32This is the new book cover. If you're listening on Spotify,
- 2:35you can't see it. But anyway, here's video on
- 2:37Spotify. You can figure it out.
- 2:38If you're watching on YouTube, obviously you can see it.
- 2:41Make sure you hit the subscribe button, The thumbs up.
- 2:43If you're listening on Spotify, make sure you leave five stars.
- 2:45It's five star podcast, nothing less than five stars, because
- 2:49that would make you a liar. And we don't like liars.
- 2:52Anyway, today's subject is red flags and I put up on my
- 2:55Instagram stories today to encourage people to share their
- 2:59red flag stories, and there's some good ones in there.
- 3:01But I'm going to talk to you about red flags today and some
- 3:04things that I look for that I consider red flags when I'm
- 3:07hiring cooks and chefs. Everything from the job
- 3:11interview to their first impressions at work when they
- 3:15start and things that I'm looking for when I'm out looking
- 3:18for a job as a chef and things that I would encourage people to
- 3:21look out for when you're interviewing.
- 3:23Because remember, an interview is always a two way St. you're
- 3:25interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you.
- 3:27So keep that in mind. Here's a a little story.
- 3:30When I was a young chef, I took a chef job and during the
- 3:35interview process I could tell that the person interviewing me
- 3:37who was going to be my boss, did not like me and cut the
- 3:41interview short. Basically talked about
- 3:43themselves the entire time, answering questions that I
- 3:45didn't ask, didn't want to know anything about me, and then
- 3:49called me up a week later and told me I didn't get the job but
- 3:52I really wanted this job. This was like the dream job for
- 3:54me. Well, this person's boss was
- 3:57good friends with a good friend of mine, so they got a phone
- 4:00call saying you need to hire Andre.
- 4:02And so after they rejected me, they called me back a couple of
- 4:05weeks later to find out if I was still interested in the job.
- 4:08Now that should have been a red flag because I would have been
- 4:10working for someone that was forced to hire me, but I was
- 4:13young and stupid and really wanted the job, so I took the
- 4:15job anyway. Now this person, my boss, also
- 4:18wanted to dictate how I ran the kitchen, how I cooked, what I
- 4:21put on the menu, and was very upfront about that early on in
- 4:24the interview process. But in my opinion I was like,
- 4:27well, once they see my food, they'll quickly change their
- 4:30mind. Boy, was I wrong.
- 4:32And I ended up being basically a puppet on some strings.
- 4:36Running the kitchen the way someone else wanted me to run
- 4:38it, cooking someone else's food and really having, you know, my
- 4:41wings clipped, basically as an exact chef.
- 4:44And there was all sorts of red flags, and I knew them early on,
- 4:47before I even took the job, but I wanted the job so bad that I
- 4:49did it anyway. That's a lesson for me.
- 4:52Sometimes the red flags are staring you right in the face
- 4:55and you refuse to notice them because you're blinded by, you
- 4:58know, the shiny new object or whatever the case may be.
- 5:01But we digress. It's important that you identify
- 5:04red flags early on, before you're taking a job.
- 5:06It's important that you identify red flags when you're
- 5:08interviewing someone. And early on when someone starts
- 5:12working for you, you will save yourself so many headaches as
- 5:16the chef taking on a new job or a cook taking on a new job.
- 5:19If you're going into a kitchen that you don't want to be in and
- 5:21you notice it early on because trust me, the signs are there.
- 5:24The signs are there. When you're interviewing
- 5:25someone, if there can be a problem later on, they're not
- 5:28always there, but the majority of the time when you really self
- 5:32analyze it afterwards, you could usually say yeah, the red flags
- 5:35were there and I just chose not to see them.
- 5:37When someone starts, red flags are all over.
- 5:40It's important that you address them early on because it starts
- 5:43to build up and then it becomes a bigger problem later on.
- 5:46So let's talk about the hiring process.
- 5:48Having a consistent resume is important.
- 5:50So you know, that's that's the first introduction.
- 5:52Where are the red flags going to be in the resume?
- 5:54Well, for me the red flag is how long have they been in positions
- 5:58and what are their patterns? You know, something I talk about
- 6:00often is that don't be blindsided by people.
- 6:04Because when you think about it, if you expect them to be
- 6:07themselves, you'll never be disappointed.
- 6:09Meaning if they have a history of doing something, don't be
- 6:12shocked when they do it again because you could see it coming
- 6:15a mile away. If they have a history of
- 6:17changing jobs every three months, why would you think that
- 6:21you're going to be any different and then you're shocked when
- 6:23they do? If they have a history of doing
- 6:25something, a good predictor of future performance is past
- 6:27behavior, Like that's one O 1. So if you want to know what
- 6:30someone's going to do when they work for you, figure out what
- 6:32they did in the past good ways. Just ask open-ended questions.
- 6:35Get them to tell you stories, Probe a little bit, see how they
- 6:39think, see how they work. Now, of course, there's always
- 6:41exceptions to the rule. A lot of people had to go
- 6:43through a lot of jobs during the COVID era, but that should that
- 6:46should be obvious to you. It's an exception to the rule
- 6:49because maybe you had to deal with that as well.
- 6:51But if you look at previously, if everywhere that they work,
- 6:54they're they're one month, two months, three months.
- 6:57They have nothing but bad things to say about their former
- 6:59employer. It's always someone else's
- 7:01fault. It's never their fault.
- 7:03They avoid personal responsibility.
- 7:05Those are all red flags to me, especially speaking badly about
- 7:08a former employer. If they're going to speak badly
- 7:10about a former employer to you who they just met, they will
- 7:13surely speak badly about you. It's not a good sign.
- 7:16There's a tactful and professional way to just say it
- 7:19just wasn't a good fit versus all sorts of bad things and
- 7:23personal things that you could say about them.
- 7:25And yeah, just just don't remain professional.
- 7:28A lot of times if someone's jumped around a job four or five
- 7:31times and everywhere else is toxic and they're great, you
- 7:34start to wonder if maybe they're the toxic one.
- 7:37Another red flag is when people say that they were looking to
- 7:40cut cost and their position got eliminated.
- 7:43Now that does happen. Restaurants do cut costs and
- 7:47positions do get eliminated, but if their position has been
- 7:50eliminated multiple times, read between the lines.
- 7:53If they're always getting their position eliminated, it's
- 7:55usually because they've been deemed the person who is not
- 8:00necessary for the operation to function.
- 8:02And trust me, these conversations happen behind the
- 8:05scenes where you're saying whose job is going to get eliminated.
- 8:08And if that person's job always gets eliminated, why were they
- 8:12always first choice? You have to ask yourself those
- 8:14questions, make sure you check the references.
- 8:16I know, I know, it's common sense, like you got to be a real
- 8:20dummy to put a reference on there.
- 8:22That's not going to say something good about you, but
- 8:24I've had situations where I've called people's references and
- 8:27say, what do you think about this person?
- 8:30And there was, there was one situation where someone said
- 8:32what? They put me down as a reference.
- 8:34Really. Me.
- 8:35I can't believe that they would put me down as a reference
- 8:37considering how they left. It's like, Oh yeah, all the all
- 8:40the alarm bells were going off in the red flags.
- 8:43But I was stupid. I ended up hiring that person
- 8:44and yeah, I should have listened to the reference.
- 8:47Sometimes I got blinded by really nice resumes and
- 8:51experience and then I didn't trust my gut or the feedback or
- 8:55the I didn't notice the red flags.
- 8:57And then I'd hire people and they they just we're not a good
- 9:01fit. When I hire chefs, executive
- 9:03chefs, sous chefs or anything like that, sometimes even cooks,
- 9:06I normally put them through some sort of cooking trial, you know,
- 9:09with the cook it might be just something simple like dice and
- 9:11onion or there's a stash of some sort paid stash, you know, for
- 9:15clarity. Or I put a chef through a
- 9:17cooking mystery basket or tell them to cook food like the style
- 9:20of restaurant. Now, my go to cooking test, the
- 9:23one that I've been using the most often, and I've talked
- 9:25about this on another podcast, Mastering the Cooking interview,
- 9:29is normally an artichoke, a live lobster, a whole fish, a whole
- 9:33chicken, and then make something impressive.
- 9:36And the reason I give some of those things is because a lot of
- 9:38people may have advanced their culinary career without ever
- 9:40breaking down an artichoke or a lobster.
- 9:43You know, they buy lobster tails only.
- 9:45So they haven't started from live, or they've bought chicken
- 9:48parts and they've never butchered a whole chicken.
- 9:50Or they've never even cleaned an artichoke because they've always
- 9:52bought them cleaned. Or in cans or in oil or
- 9:55something like that. And you'd be surprised how many
- 9:57people don't show up once they find out that they got to do a
- 9:59cooking interview. It's always the same excuse,
- 10:01like, oh, you know, something came up, they took another job.
- 10:04But just having a cooking interview sometimes eliminates a
- 10:07lot of the riff raff that would be by advice.
- 10:09Like if you're hiring people, have them go through some form
- 10:12of cooking interview, Make it a little bit difficult.
- 10:14You don't want to make it too easy.
- 10:15But when they find out that they have a cooking interview and
- 10:18they don't show up, well, you may have just dodged a bullet.
- 10:20Then when it comes to the cooking interview, it's all the
- 10:23other red flags. Like how clean do they work?
- 10:24Do they work messy? Like that's usually the first
- 10:27big red flag to me. Do they prep their own museum
- 10:30Plas or do they have the audacity to steal the museum
- 10:33Plas of the kitchen that they're working in?
- 10:35And and then say they made it, Which I have seen that happen
- 10:38before. I've seen people just grab
- 10:40random things out of the cooler that they don't know what it is,
- 10:44and then just put it on their dish.
- 10:45And then I look at it and like, I'm pretty sure that we made
- 10:48that only to find out, yeah, you know, afterwards you talk to the
- 10:51chefs and like, Oh yeah, it was you rated our me's, stole all
- 10:54our product. It's like, OK, yeah, red flag
- 10:57showing up late for the interview.
- 10:58Red flag. Poor hygiene, not looking the
- 11:00part. When they show up for an
- 11:01interview, like, dress for the part that you want.
- 11:04If you're going to work in a very fine establishment, you
- 11:06want to look professional. If it's a very casual place,
- 11:08might not be as important. But look the part.
- 11:11In other words, you don't want to show up in a baseball cap,
- 11:14T-shirt, and jeans to the five star hotel or the three Michelin
- 11:18star restaurant, because that might not be the look that
- 11:20they're going for. They might want something more
- 11:21professional. However, you wouldn't want to
- 11:24show up in a business suit or a tuxedo.
- 11:26You wouldn't wear a tuxedo to the park to play volleyball.
- 11:29Same. Same thing applies.
- 11:30Dress appropriate for the occasion.
- 11:32Situational awareness. Have some common sense, right?
- 11:35self-awareness goes a very long way.
- 11:37The other thing is when you're interviewing people is just
- 11:39their inability to answer basic cooking questions.
- 11:43You know, they have this culinary school diploma or
- 11:45degree and then you ask them, you know, what's the five mother
- 11:48sauces? And it's like, you know, they
- 11:50fumble around. They don't know them.
- 11:52How do you make a Roux? What's a basic vinaigrette
- 11:54recipe? You know, the basics.
- 11:56I'm not even talking about things that are very complex or
- 11:59like fringe skill sets. I'm talking about the basics.
- 12:01When they can't answer basic cooking questions, red flag, a
- 12:05personal red flag for me and it it's not a huge red flag.
- 12:08But when they start telling me that they want to get their food
- 12:11on their menu and they're applying for a cook position and
- 12:13they have no experience or they're right out of culinary
- 12:15school. Now I get why they want to do
- 12:17that. They want to express their
- 12:18creativity, they want to do good, they want to learn.
- 12:21But that's not something for me that I look for on an interview.
- 12:25I want to know that you could do the food that we're doing in the
- 12:27particular restaurant. And a lot of times it's again,
- 12:29it comes down to that self-awareness.
- 12:32You're just out of culinary school and you're going into,
- 12:35you know, a restaurant on the world's fifty best and you can't
- 12:37wait to tell the chef how to make their food.
- 12:39Like come on, make sure your brain isn't so smooth.
- 12:42Now, when people start a new job, first day on the job, are
- 12:45they on time? Do they show up awake and ready?
- 12:47As I'd like to say, proper uniform, knives in hand, maybe a
- 12:51little bit early, but showing up late on your first day.
- 12:53Red flag calling to change the schedule.
- 12:56First day Red Flag Requesting massive amounts of time off
- 12:59immediately after taking the job.
- 13:02Red Flag asking for a raise on your first date.
- 13:04Red Flag talking to other cooks in the kitchen about how much
- 13:08they make? Red Flag Those are just things
- 13:11you don't do on the first day. Get to know people.
- 13:13I did another podcast on fitting into new kitchens and there's a
- 13:16certain cadence that you're looking for.
- 13:18If everyone's hustling, you hustle.
- 13:20If everyone's working clean, you work clean.
- 13:22Doing the exact opposite is a red flag.
- 13:24Now I'm not saying that these are red flag deal Breakers and
- 13:27you can't hire them, but what I am saying is it's a red flag.
- 13:30Pay attention, correct them, put it in check because if not, it
- 13:33will be a problem later. Another thing is immediate lack
- 13:36of respect coming in and not being respectful to the dish
- 13:38team, to other cooks on the line, to the chef, to the
- 13:41service team talking back. Especially like on your first
- 13:44day and your first week. Big red flags.
- 13:46Don't like seeing that people that come in and want to change
- 13:49everything to the place how they did it at the last job.
- 13:52Also a big red flag no one ever wants to hear.
- 13:54Oh, this how we did it at my last job.
- 13:56Unless you're asked which you may have a better and more
- 13:59efficient way to do things. And there's nothing wrong with
- 14:01that. But there's a time and place.
- 14:03It's important that you learn the new system.
- 14:05I've gone into kitchens many times where I think I know
- 14:07better but I keep my mouth shut. And then later on time will show
- 14:12me that I didn't know better because I didn't understand.
- 14:15I wanted to speak before I understood.
- 14:17Always seek to understand first before you start making judgment
- 14:22calls and assessments. Another red flag for me is
- 14:25someone that immediately starts changing recipes, plating things
- 14:28differently, wanting to do things their own way.
- 14:32Red flag, not asking questions, talking during service when it's
- 14:36obviously busy and it's focus time.
- 14:39Red flag calling off too much within the first couple of weeks
- 14:42of starting a new job. Red flag.
- 14:44Now again, things happen. I understand that.
- 14:47But if someone calls off week 1, and then they call off week two,
- 14:52and then they call off week 3, if you're a betting man, are you
- 14:55going to bet that they're going to call off on week 4?
- 14:58Absolutely you are. And if and if not, like, what's
- 15:01wrong with you? As I said earlier, expect people
- 15:03to be themselves, notice their patterns and expect them to
- 15:05repeat them. You know how hard it is for
- 15:07someone to break a pattern? Like, think about that.
- 15:09Like, how hard is it for you personally to break your
- 15:12patterns? Like, let's just say your
- 15:14pattern is, you know, you should work out and you don't.
- 15:17Like how hard is it for you to break that pattern or something
- 15:20that you always eat or something that you always say, Like, you
- 15:23know how hard it is for you to break that pattern?
- 15:26Well, people have patterns, and if they're always doing
- 15:28something, expect them to repeat that.
- 15:31It's obvious it's right in front of you.
- 15:33Red flag. Another red flag to me early on
- 15:35is them complaining too much about how hard the work is or
- 15:39saying that they're not going to do something because they don't
- 15:41get paid to do it early on. Like, I'm not going to clean.
- 15:44That's not my job. Those are all red flags.
- 15:46Early on in a kitchen I always run it as we should be willing
- 15:50to do every job in the kitchen. We have a win together, fail
- 15:54together mentality. So that means sometimes you
- 15:56might be washing dishes or putting away boxes in the
- 15:58cooler. Actually, sorry, rephrase that
- 16:01taking boxes out of the cooler, because no boxes should go in
- 16:04the cooler. Chef's PSA, right?
- 16:06That's where gross things are stored in boxes on floors and
- 16:09warehouses. Anyway, we digress.
- 16:12Now, if you're a chef or a cook, when you're applying somewhere,
- 16:15what are some red flags that you look out for?
- 16:17One, if a restaurant owner has a reputation of closing
- 16:21restaurants and not paying their staff, huge red flag.
- 16:24Especially not paying their staff.
- 16:26Some people just have that reputation.
- 16:28They open a restaurant, they close a restaurant, they don't
- 16:30pay people and they they burn their bridge around town.
- 16:33They say they've changed someone that's trying to lowball you and
- 16:36pay you more later. To me, as a red flag, that
- 16:39doesn't mean I'm not going to take the job but it's usually a
- 16:42sign that they're not going to pay you more later.
- 16:44Like the whole you know, we'll we'll re evaluate it based on
- 16:47performance. If it's not in writing, don't
- 16:49expect it to get done. Everything needs to be in
- 16:51writing. Everything needs to be upfront.
- 16:53Your time to negotiate is before you take the job, not after you
- 16:56take it. So promises of this and that and
- 16:59the other later to me, a red flag if they could pay you more
- 17:02later, they could pay you more. Now looking at the turnover of
- 17:05the kitchen that you're working and they have a high turnover
- 17:07rate. Why?
- 17:08Why have they gone through 5 chefs in the last five months?
- 17:11Ask yourself that. We're all 5 chefs.
- 17:13Really bad. Remember we were talking about
- 17:15patterns. If they've gone through 5 chefs
- 17:17in five months and it's month 6:00 and you're and you're the
- 17:206th chef, Guess what? Figure it out.
- 17:23It's a it's an IQ test. Dirty kitchens are a red flag
- 17:27for me. Unsanitary conditions, broken
- 17:30equipment. If you go in the kitchen and
- 17:32everywhere you looked, the kitchen equipment is broken.
- 17:34And this doesn't work. And that doesn't work.
- 17:36That means they have no intention of fixing it.
- 17:37Light bulbs off here and there, Red flags for me.
- 17:40I've been in many kitchens where people have wanted me to go and
- 17:43be the chef, but the kitchens are dirty.
- 17:45I just. I just don't go.
- 17:46I I refuse to work in dirty kitchens.
- 17:49As a chef. I just can't do it.
- 17:50It's gross to me. I don't like it.
- 17:52And if there's no ability to turn it around and make it a
- 17:55clean kitchen, because sometimes the kitchen's dirty, but you
- 17:57could fix it. But if it's one of those
- 17:58situations where it's dirty and there is no fixing it, I'm out.
- 18:01I will not take a job like that. An owner or a former chef who's
- 18:07going to be your boss and is going to dictate their menu.
- 18:09I shared that story early on where I worked.
- 18:12For someone like that, Not a good situation.
- 18:14You need to be upfront. What are your job expectations
- 18:18before you go in? Do you have carte blanche on the
- 18:20menu? Are they dictating the menu
- 18:22items? All of this is important before
- 18:23you take the job. And by the way, I should go back
- 18:25and say that the person that I worked for that originally
- 18:27didn't want to hire me. The story at the beginning of
- 18:29this podcast actually, we became really good friends and
- 18:32eventually I turned that situation around.
- 18:34But the first few months were hell.
- 18:36Another thing that you're going to look for is looking at the
- 18:38staff. Do they seem unhappy?
- 18:40Do the other cooks on the line seem disengaged?
- 18:43Is it chaotic? All of these are the red flags
- 18:45that you need to look for before you take a chef job or a cook
- 18:49job in a kitchen. And lastly, I'll say red flags
- 18:54aren't always a deal breaker, but a combination of red flags
- 18:57could be the deal breaker that you're looking for when hiring,
- 19:00when taking a job, or when someone starts early on in your
- 19:03kitchen. The key points for me is look at
- 19:05the history, look at past behavior.
- 19:07It's a good indicator of what to expect in the future.
- 19:10And if there's a red flag and you need to turn down a job, do
- 19:12so with grace. Just say you know what, it's
- 19:14just not going to be the right fit for me.
- 19:16Or explain to the person they're just not going to be a right fit
- 19:18for the kitchen that you're in now.
- 19:20Stop that bad behavior early on before it gets out of control.
- 19:25Trust your instincts. Do your due diligence.
- 19:27Talk to people. Use your network of chefs and
- 19:29cooks out there. Talked to friends that have been
- 19:31in those positions before you that you trust or that may know
- 19:35some of those people. I'm going to share some of the
- 19:38Instagram comments that were pretty good.
- 19:40There was a lot of them, but I'm going to share some of my
- 19:42favorite ones. Thank you all who commented on
- 19:44the Instagram poll with your red flags.
- 19:47I appreciate it very much. There's some good ones in there,
- 19:49like don't be smelly. Get your ego in check, show up
- 19:52on time, quit trying to change recipes.
- 19:55Don't say how you did it at the last job.
- 19:57Making sure the tape is cut straight.
- 19:59Pet peeve of mine. The tape says everything about
- 20:02you as it was phrased. Make sure you drop some comments
- 20:05on what some red flags are for you.
- 20:07Let me know what you think of the show.
- 20:08Make sure you hit the like and subscribe button.
- 20:11If your list on Spotify, make sure you leave five stars.
- 20:14Go get yourself some merch. Go get yourself a Christmas
- 20:16present. Get one book for every single
- 20:18person in your kitchen. Thank you all very much.
- 20:20We'll see you next week. Hit the porno music.