Latest / Love Your Gut / Ep. 124: The Top 6 Roadblocks We See in Gut Healing (feat. the gutTogether Team)

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Ep. 124: The Top 6 Roadblocks We See in Gut Healing (feat. the gutTogether Team) · Love Your Gut

• 0:00
  Welcome back to the next episode of the Love Your Gut podcast.
• 0:04
  Today is a special one because I am joined by two of my very favorite people and team members, Tyler and Macy, They are two dieticians that are on my team.
• 0:15
  They are in town for the day, and we did some pictures, and we're recording this podcast episode, and we're just gonna have such a fun conversation about why we see clients get stuck and some of the roadblocks that we see.
• 0:29
  and we had quite the time setting up this podcast, so I hope that you love we're just gonna have so much fun.
• 0:34
  So Tyler and Macy, welcome to the Love Your Gut podcast, your podcast debut.
• 0:40
  Thank you.
• 0:40
  We're excited to be here.
• 0:42
  So excited.
• 0:43
  Tyler saved the day on the tech setup.
• 0:45
  We rented this podcast room and almost couldn't figure it out, but you saved the day.
• 0:51
  I think you guys need to vouch for me when my family says-"You did that?" Yes.
• 0:55
  They'll be like,"She is not techy." Hey, we- all we needed was a cord, and you were the one that figured that out.
• 1:02
  Yeah.
• 1:02
  So, well, I'm excited to have this conversation with you guys today and talk about some roadblocks.
• 1:07
  But why don't you guys just give a high-level, 20-second overview for anybody that doesn't know you, like who you are and how long you've been on the team and something you wanna share.
• 1:20
  Tyler, you go first.
• 1:21
  Okay.
• 1:22
  I'm Tyler.
• 1:23
  I've been on the team now for pretty much right at a year, a little bit over.
• 1:27
  And let's see.
• 1:29
  I'm a dietician, from Kansas, live in Kansas City.
• 1:33
  Let's see.
• 1:34
  Grad school, went to grad school with Macy, um, at KU Med.
• 1:38
  And yeah, just, I don't know.
• 1:40
  I've loved being a part of the team, just, like, learning, growing, just being to he- being able to help people, I feel like, in a, a deeper way than maybe I've ever been able to before.
• 1:49
  I'm curious on that.
• 1:50
  When you say help people in a deeper way, what do you think...
• 1:53
  Why do you think that is, or what do you think is the biggest difference from maybe what you've done in the past?
• 1:58
  I, I just feel less, Tied.
• 2:00
  Like my, like my hands are tied.
• 2:02
  Um, like, and I have a lot of time, and also the resources, right?
• 2:07
  So like, the ability to have the modules that we have or to just have, like educational things I should say, is really helpful because it's so complex.
• 2:17
  And if people don't understand the complexity of like their issues or the GI tract in general, then it tends to get really oversimplified and makes working with people hard.
• 2:27
  So I don't know.
• 2:29
  I think just flexibility and freedom is really helpful, in this job.
• 2:35
  And you don't feel like you're maybe rushed to like see a certain amount of patients like at a hospital?
• 2:40
  Oh, so true.
• 2:40
  Yeah, I'm not rushed.
• 2:42
  And there's great support by the team, so I think that's helpful too.
• 2:47
  Macey, your turn.
• 2:49
  Hi, everyone.
• 2:50
  I'm Macey.
• 2:50
  Like Tyler said, I went to grad school with Tyler, and so that's a fun first full circle moment, but I'm a dietician as well.
• 2:58
  I grew up in Midland.
• 2:59
  I live there now, Midland, Texas, if anyone knows where that is.
• 3:03
  And I've been on the team for about four years, and fun fact, I actually was a client of Heather's when I was having my own set of health struggles.
• 3:13
  And so I was in grad school at the time, and she knew I was about to graduate, and after I s- uh, finished on the client front, she was like,"Hey, would you happen to wanna be a practitioner?" And so I've been here ever since.
• 3:26
  So fun.
• 3:27
  So tell me, because you were a client and now obviously you've been on the team for a long time, Like what did you not know when you were a client to then you join the team and you're like,"Oh, that's so interesting that they do that"?
• 3:41
  Was there anything that surprised you?
• 3:43
  Hmm.
• 3:44
  Good question.
• 3:47
  I would say when you're a client, you have your own kind of like go-to practitioner.
• 3:53
  Like, you're seeing the same person throughout the program, and it's, as a practitioner, it's fun to see that, like, actually, you know, you're rounding on patients every week, and you're collaborating as a team.
• 4:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:03
  And so there's a lot more brains on your case than, than just the person you're seeing, which is...
• 4:09
  Which I thought was really cool.
• 4:10
  Yeah.
• 4:10
  I think that's probably one of my favorite things that we do, is like- Mm-hmm meet every week, chat about our patients, round table discussion.
• 4:17
  'Cause sometimes it can be so easy to, like, when it's your client, not remember, like, the bigger picture,'cause you get so in the weeds.
• 4:25
  So I love being able to do that.
• 4:28
  Yeah.
• 4:28
  That was a, a fun thing to learn, for sure.
• 4:31
  I okay, so we wanted to jump into some roadblocks.
• 4:35
  We've got six roadblocks and things that we often see getting in the way of clients.
• 4:40
  And the first one I'll kick us off is doing the right things in the wrong order, and what I mean by that is a lot of our clients that come to us are very highly educated.
• 4:50
  They can talk all about their gut.
• 4:53
  They know a lot about gut health, maybe even more than some of the practitioners that they've seen, and they know about a lot of protocols and supplements and different things, and they've tried a lot of things, and they have the narrative of,"Nothing works for me because I've already tried so many things." And a lot of times we find that it's not that they've actually done anything wrong, it's just that it's been in the wrong order.
• 5:19
  So the analogy that I like to give there is y- if you have a beautiful chandelier in your house but the electrical wiring is off, that is obviously going to affect how the chandelier functions.
• 5:32
  And so you can take a great probiotic or you can take a great gut-healing blend, but if it's in the wrong order or maybe something else isn't functioning well, then of course it's going to not work for you.
• 5:47
  And so it's very easy to get in that mindset of,"Nothing works for me," or,"I already tried that." And I feel like, I don't know about you guys, but I feel like oftentimes we are having conversations with people saying,"I know you've done this before, but we're gonna try it again.
• 6:03
  And the reason we're gonna try it again is because you've done A, B, and C, and now we're moving on to X, Y, and Z." Do you guys agree?
• 6:10
  Totally.
• 6:11
  Yes, for sure.
• 6:12
  Yeah.
• 6:12
  What do you think is one of the common things people have tried before that maybe we're asking them to do again?
• 6:22
  I would say, like, when it comes to kind of deeper work in the gut, whether it's some sort of parasite or bacterial imbalance, fungal imbalance, whatever it may be, they might have done something to address that in the past, that maybe the approach wasn't bad in and of itself, it was just that they didn't have all the foundations in place.
• 6:43
  Maybe they didn't work on, you know, the lifestyle foundations, the diet foundations, but also maybe they didn't address things like motility and their digestive function, and they just went in and kind of tried to address some sort of pathogen.
• 6:57
  And so it's kind of talking them through,"Hey, we need to go back and do A, B, and C, and D before we actually- work through this." So I would say that's probably the biggest thing I see.
• 7:07
  Yeah, for sure.
• 7:08
  And so when the sequence is off, then the whole system kind of shuts down, which is kind of what you're gonna talk about next, Macy.
• 7:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:15
  So walk us through roadblock number two.
• 7:18
  Sure.
• 7:19
  So I would say, kind of like Heather was chatting about, the sequence can be off, so you know, usually if the sequence is off, you're not gonna be getting the results that you want.
• 7:28
  So the natural response is,"Hey, let's just keep doing more and more and more," and it's really impossible to out-supplement a body that's super overwhelmed.
• 7:38
  So when the body's maxed out, you know, more inputs don't always equal better success.
• 7:44
  Usually it just equals more chaos.
• 7:47
  So I like to describe this metaphor for clients.
• 7:51
  Think of your body as...
• 7:53
  Or think of, like, a toxic bucket, if you will, or a stress bucket, not necessarily a toxic bucket.
• 7:57
  Think of a stress bucket.
• 7:59
  So that might be, like, actual mental, emotional stress.
• 8:02
  That might be poor sleep.
• 8:03
  That may be undereating, gut infections, blood sugar instability, environmental toxin exposures.
• 8:11
  It could be a wide variety of things, and that bucket fills with each of those inputs, and that looks a little different from person to person.
• 8:19
  But once that bucket starts to overflow, that overflowing is what usually people describe as symptoms: headaches, um, brain fog, anxiety, bloating, constipation, you know, a million different things.
• 8:33
  And so if we're just pouring supplements on top of a bucket that's constantly overflowing, that's never gonna lower that bucket.
• 8:39
  Those, that overflow is still happening, and so symptoms are still gonna be at place.
• 8:44
  So we have to go...
• 8:46
  We have to take a pause.
• 8:47
  We have to kind of analyze, and this is where, you know- Sitting down with people for a full hour on their initial call is super important because we can start to piece together what are the main, you know, what are the main drivers of that bucket filling up?
• 9:02
  And, once we can determine, okay, what's, what does this look like for somebody?
• 9:06
  Is, you know, are they undereating?
• 9:08
  Is their sleep really dysregulated?
• 9:11
  You know, is their nervous system dysregulated?
• 9:14
  Are they overdoing or underdoing movement?
• 9:17
  Maybe they have some sort of environmental exposure going on that we need to work on.
• 9:21
  Whatever that may be, we have to kind of go backwards a little bit and start to drain the bucket in those areas so that we can work on the deeper things, and that does look like supplemental strategies, but once we drain the bucket a little bit, your body's tolerance is much, much better.
• 9:37
  So you can't just immediately start with supplement protocols and pathogen, addressing pathogens and so on and so forth.
• 9:46
  We have to kind of try to get the body to calm down, lower that stress bucket so that your body will actually tolerate things.
• 9:53
  And I think a, a big thing that we see with a lot of our clients, we do s- tend to see a lot of s- really sensitive clients, people that kind of describe themselves, you know, like,"Hey, I'm really sensitive.
• 10:04
  Is this gonna flare me up?" Or, you know,"I tried this X, Y, and Z in the past.
• 10:08
  It's supposed to help, but it actually made me feel a lot worse." And I think that's kind of the telltale sign that their bucket is overflowing.
• 10:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:15
  And so once we work on, on kind of stabilizing the system, and that's, you know, done with a lot of difference- different types of strategies based on the person, then we can kind of go after the deeper things, the infections and the imbalances in the gut or whatever it may be, and that'll help that all actually stick and take hold and, and not, you know, send their body into a symptom tailspin.
• 10:39
  Love it.
• 10:40
  So what you're saying is sometimes less is more.
• 10:44
  Oh, for sure.
• 10:44
  More is not more.
• 10:45
  For sure.
• 10:46
  Definitely less is more.
• 10:48
  I feel like so many of our clients, and this was me in the past, where I'm like,"If it's not more, then it can't be better." You know, it's like almost getting out of that mentality.
• 10:57
  And I mean, like a, a good example of this is like, I mean, all of us here were former college athletes.
• 11:04
  It's like, if you're not dead by the end of the workout, then it didn't work.
• 11:07
  And so similar in that way, it's just because you're not dead at the end of the workout doesn't mean it wasn't effective, and a lot of that applies on a gut healing journey as well.
• 11:16
  Okay, Tyler, you got the third one, and this is, this is a hard one for a lot of clients.
• 11:22
  It's so hard- Yeah for a lot of clients.
• 11:25
  So the third roadblock that we see is, restriction, like restriction as their default.
• 11:31
  And, typically like that comes from a good place, like where they're thinking they're really, really trying to help theirselves.
• 11:38
  But it's typically not the direction that we want to go, because we think of like food as like nourishment, for our body and for all of the systems, and things that it does.
• 11:50
  And one thing I always tell my clients And it doesn't have to be, the word rule is what I use, but it doesn't have to be a rule.
• 11:58
  But in nutrition, like, we, like rule number one is we have to eat enough, like regardless really of what it is.
• 12:05
  Because if we don't, then kind of like what Macy said too, like that just adds to the stress bucket, I think way more than we probably expect that it does.
• 12:13
  So more nourishment like is helpful from, um, a safety perspective, and then just even like systems and function overall.
• 12:22
  So, um, that's a, that's a roadblock people get into because, um, because it's, I think, what they see just a lot of as being the thing that would be helpful.
• 12:31
  Um, like removing, I mean, removing so many foods, like, um, cut out gluten, cut out dairy, eggs, soy, sugar, all of it.
• 12:40
  And it's not that there aren't situations where that is helpful, but if we are doing that to, an extent where, where it stresses the body out, then that, that's a problem.
• 12:51
  And, um, if you're still experiencing, I'm still experiencing bloat, I'm still experience- experiencing constipation, I'm still anxious despite having removed something, I think it, that's stressful in your mind anyway too.
• 13:05
  Like, the thing I tried to do didn't fix the problem, so like what else is it?
• 13:10
  Um, and usually you don't put the thing back in that you previously took out before you remove something else.
• 13:15
  So, um, yeah, it can tend to backfire.
• 13:19
  And the reason that it does that is our, like our microbiome is full of tons of bacteria.
• 13:26
  And, there's a visual actually I just saw.
• 13:29
  It was one of your visuals, but the one with all the different bacteria, and they're picky eaters.
• 13:34
  And I just, it's just a simple way to describe that to people of, like if we have all of these microbes in our gut, and they are picky eaters, and something likes broccoli and something else likes carrots and whatever the food is, if we take those foods out of our diet, then we tend to starve the bacteria that need it.
• 13:55
  And diversity is really, really important, when it comes to, our gut symptoms.
• 14:00
  So that can lead to like lower capacity to tolerate food, like more reactions over time, and then again, like just that spiral, of restriction.
• 14:10
  So Super challenging.
• 14:12
  And then that parking lot analogy, too, that we use, sometimes with people.
• 14:16
  So if our microbiome is like a parking lot where we have, like, both good and bad bacteria, our good bacteria are...
• 14:24
  Well, actually, they're both.
• 14:25
  Like, they're fighting for parking spaces, and giving our gut and our, having that diversity in our diet helps those good bacteria stay in their parking spot, essentially, and that's where we want them.
• 14:36
  So yeah, restriction is a big one.
• 14:38
  I think I love the idea, too, that, I think people have that idea of, like, restriction is this thing that I'm not doing, even though, like, from our view, it sometimes looks like that.
• 14:50
  And so we also may see it as,, just, like, a softer version, of just undereating in general.
• 14:56
  And so, yeah, it's hard because both are a problem usually.
• 15:01
  And so yeah, like I said, we have to eat enough to be able to see any kind of difference, and that comes, like, as we think about digestion, like, the energy that that requires, um, like, from our stomach, from our, our even, like, our salivary glands, our brain to orchestrate the whole thing, um, from, like, a macronutrient level, right?
• 15:21
  Like protein, carbs, fat, those give us energy.
• 15:24
  But then also we talk a ton about the micro level as well.
• 15:27
  Like, your vitamins and minerals all are necessary to move the system.
• 15:32
  So if we don't have enough coming in, it makes all of that way more challenging, um, on the body.
• 15:38
  So, um, yeah, to answer, like, even kind of one of the other roadblocks too kind of feeds in, um, to this one.
• 15:46
  And so if we like, uh...
• 15:49
  I lost my- Yeah, you have to have enough input essentially to have, um, the output that we need.
• 15:56
  So anyway, uh, oh, a lot of gut protocols, that's what I was thinking, miss this point- Mm-hmm too, of eating enough.
• 16:02
  Like, I'm using all the antimicrobials, and I'm using all the supports, and I'm trying to work on this and that, but ultimately the intake is too small, um, to make that difference.
• 16:12
  So nutrition.
• 16:13
  There's a reason on our client application I have a question that says,"Have you," or,"Have you or do you currently struggle with an eating disorder?" And one of the selections is,"I have in the past, and I would consider myself more than 80% recovered." And the reason that I ask that question is because of exactly what you said.
• 16:33
  It's like you could have the, quote-unquote,"perfect protocol," but if the body doesn't have the energy...
• 16:40
  Everything requires energy.
• 16:41
  If it doesn't have the energy to heal, then we're not gonna actually get anywhere.
• 16:46
  And I know we've talked to several clients about this- Mm-hmm recently, where it's like if you were training for a marathon, you would be eating more and prioritizing nutrition and, and paying attention there.
• 16:57
  Healing is a lot like that, where you do need more protein and you do, do need more minerals and nutrients to actually allow your body to heal tissue and heal- Mm-hmm whatever is going on under the surface.
• 17:11
  But I love what you said.
• 17:12
  A lot of people take stuff out but don't add it back in before they take something else.
• 17:17
  Yeah.
• 17:17
  So it's like this shrinking diet- Yeah and then also a shrinking life.
• 17:21
  Totally.
• 17:22
  I knew you were gonna say that.
• 17:23
  And that's so sad.
• 17:25
  Like, that's partly why we're here too,'cause we- I love food.
• 17:29
  I will be out and about doing all the things, and the idea that other people, like, just can't do that is so sad to me.
• 17:37
  I know.
• 17:37
  It's like, that's why we do what we do.
• 17:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:39
  You know?
• 17:40
  People...
• 17:41
  It's great to have people pooping every day.
• 17:44
  Awesome.
• 17:44
  You know, I love that you're not having acid reflux every day.
• 17:47
  Yeah.
• 17:47
  But what I love more is that, like, you went on a date with your husband- Mm-hmm or you went on a trip or, you know, you finally started dating.
• 17:56
  I know we have a lot- Yeah of clients that are like,"I'm not dating right now because I'm too embarrassed- of my GI issues." So it's- You got the latte with whole milk.
• 18:05
  You know?
• 18:06
  That's right.
• 18:07
  It's better that way.
• 18:10
  It's better that way.
• 18:11
  Yeah.
• 18:11
  So the first three are, are big roadblocks that we see, and they have something in common, is that they're, a lot of them are guesses, right?
• 18:20
  We're, we're guessing.
• 18:21
  We have clients that come to us and they're like,"I have candida.
• 18:24
  I have this.
• 18:25
  I have that," but they've never actually known if that was the case.
• 18:28
  They ChatGPT their symptoms or Googled their symptoms or whatever, and they're like,"This is what I have." And a lot of times we actually see a pattern that's opposite of what they thought.
• 18:42
  Someone might s- think that they have a lot of bad, quote-unquote, bacteria in their gut, and we get it back, and they actually don't have that.
• 18:50
  They just have a really depleted parking lot, like Tyler was saying.
• 18:52
  So Macy, what is the fourth roadblock?
• 18:56
  Yeah, I would say the fourth roadblock is guessing instead of testing, and I think this can, you know, look a few different ways.
• 19:04
  Obviously, there's the actual physical test you can run, whether that's blood work, more functional medicine-based testing, like GI maps, hair tissue mineral analysis.
• 19:14
  Um, you know, even like environmental toxin tests.
• 19:17
  There's lots of different actual physical testing you can do.
• 19:20
  Um, you know, I think there's a part of this that's just sitting down with someone and, and actually hearing their story and, and hearing their symptoms, and obviously the two go together.
• 19:29
  But I will say testing has a, a time and place, and it can be really valuable.
• 19:33
  'Cause like Heather was saying, there can be a lot of deeper root causes for somebody's symptoms with the symp- and someone has the exact same symptoms, but their root causes are a lot different.
• 19:44
  And so that's where, where testing can definitely have a really beneficial, um, place in, you know, essentially creating a roadmap for people's healing.
• 19:54
  And so, you know, we see this all the time with people, um, you know, they're on 15 different supplements.
• 20:01
  This one's supposed to be for bloating.
• 20:03
  This one's supposed to be for anxiety.
• 20:06
  This one's supposed to be for sleep, you know, so on and so forth.
• 20:09
  But you have to take a step back and, like, kind of unravel, okay, what are the actual drivers of those symptoms?
• 20:16
  And, you know, oftentimes the bloating and the anxiety and the The brain fog or whatever it may be, they have, you know, they have similar pathways.
• 20:25
  They're just showing up in the body different ways.
• 20:27
  So, you know, I think a, a part of this and why people tend to guess is'cause I think everyone can probably relate going to the doctor, you get, you know, a whole host of, of blood labs run, and the doctor's like,"Hey, everything's normal.
• 20:41
  You're good.
• 20:42
  You know, see you in, in X amount of months." And you're like,"No, I feel horrible.
• 20:46
  There's no way everything is normal." And so, you know, there's kind of like that emotional layer, um, to it of like, no, you don't understand.
• 20:54
  I've, I have looked into everything and, and they said everything is normal.
• 20:59
  And, you know, usually, I'm not gonna say all the time, but a lot of times it's like, okay, maybe it's you're just anxious or you're distressed or something like that.
• 21:07
  And I think that's where some of these more functional medicine-based testing, um, you know, h- can have a really big, um, a really big place in somebody's healing journey because it usually looks a lot deeper and, and can give us a good roadmap.
• 21:22
  So, you know, this isn't to say there's, there's not a time and place for symptom, you know, symptom suppressing modalities, whether that's supplemental things or, or even medications.
• 21:33
  Um, but I think having, you know, a, a plan of like, okay, this is for X amount of time or while I, you know, continue working on X, Y, and Z instead of like, okay, I'm just gonna use this Band-Aid solution and, and kind of move along.
• 21:48
  Um, so yeah, that's a big, that's a big one we see with clients, and that's a big part of our, the program and how we work with clients.
• 21:57
  We have, you know, a testing aspect of that, and, and that, I think, brings a lot of success with the clients we work with.
• 22:04
  Okay.
• 22:04
  So this just came to mind.
• 22:06
  Remind me, when you were a client, you had had GI map testing before you saw us, right?
• 22:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:13
  Yeah.
• 22:14
  Okay.
• 22:14
  So you had obviously had GI map testing before.
• 22:18
  I suggested that you do another one.
• 22:20
  What was your initial thought?
• 22:21
  Were you just, like, open to the process, or were you thinking, like,"I already did that.
• 22:25
  I already did protocols.
• 22:27
  Is this actually gonna work?" Walk me through that.
• 22:30
  Yeah.
• 22:31
  That's a good question.
• 22:32
  I was, I was definitely open to it.
• 22:34
  I think part of that was because I had been in grad school, and, like, I did, you know, kind of a little bit more of a functional medicine based program, and so I started learning more about that.
• 22:44
  And I think it was helpful'cause I started to kind of make the connections in my own brain of, like, okay, a protocol's a protocol, but, like, we have to kind of work backwards and make sure all the pieces are together.
• 22:58
  Um, and so I was open to it just because I had kinda made that connection of, like, okay, there was probably some things missed even though, in theory, the plan I did, you know, a few years ago might've been a good plan.
• 23:10
  But, um, I just knew that there was probably some missing pieces to, to maybe why things didn't really move the needle.
• 23:18
  What do you think was missing, or is it so long ago you don't remember?
• 23:22
  Yeah.
• 23:22
  I mean, I think it was a variety of things, and- It definitely took some time for the pieces to kind of come together.
• 23:29
  Um, I think a big part of mine was some mold exposure that I had while I was in grad school, and that kind of setting off, like, some immune mast cell dysfunction.
• 23:41
  And so, like, I was kind of in the state that I described earlier of, like, the bucket was significantly overflowing.
• 23:48
  And so everything I did honestly made me feel 100 times worse.
• 23:51
  And so it wasn't until I, I really just took a step back and tried to, like, actually calm my body down and, and work on draining the bucket a little bit more and, and kind of almost, you know, putting some of the deeper imbalances aside.
• 24:06
  Even though I knew they were there, me addressing them was, was making me significantly worse.
• 24:11
  And so I had to, to kind of move in the opposite direction a little bit and kind of figure out how to drain my bucket so that my immune system, my body could actually tolerate things.
• 24:22
  Even though they were part of the puzzle and they were, they were causing symptoms, it was just, you know, kind of getting to maybe Step number four instead of step number one, if that makes sense.
• 24:33
  So I think that was probably a big, a big part of, of my journey and that, and that usually looks like the journey's a little slower unfortunately, and I think we have to kinda remind that, um, remind that to our clients.
• 24:47
  You know, it's usually not this overnight change, and even like, you know, a 1% difference, um, you're moving, at least you're moving in the right direction.
• 24:57
  So yeah, I think that was a big, a big part of it for me.
• 25:00
  The 1% is such a good point because it's sometimes hard to recognize, like, those little things along the way.
• 25:07
  I know Kara, who does nervous system support in our program for our clients, that's something she always says is like,"We're looking for evidence because our brain is wired for the negative, and our brain is trying to protect us from failure again.
• 25:21
  But if we can look for evidence of positive change, even if it's a 1% change, you are proving to your nervous system," which is our next roadblock that Tyler's gonna cover,"you're proving to your nervous system that it is possible for your body to change." So Tyler, this is something that you actually mentioned earlier when we were doing photos about the one that really is kind of the crux for a lot of people.
• 25:46
  Yeah.
• 25:47
  And I think it's, it comes from a good place.
• 25:51
  Like, we, we don't see that in ourselves when, like, our nervous system or our identity or, whatever it is is, um, like heightened, or just like...
• 26:03
  I hate to use the word stressed, but just that it ultimately kind of is part of it.
• 26:07
  But like our s- our stories are, like, long.
• 26:12
  They, like, twist and turn and up and down, and sometimes they land in a good way, and sometimes they're not, and you're in the middle of still twists and turns and all those things.
• 26:22
  And so we bring that up as a roadblock because if we talk a ton about how the gut and the brain, you know, are interconnected as part of, like, one system, and they communicate to each other, that's a piece that we, we just can't dismiss, and it's, it is a huge component for a lot of our people.
• 26:42
  And so yeah, I think, I think they dismiss it because it doesn't feel like them.
• 26:47
  Like, everyone else they know or they could name the person in their life that has maybe d- more dysregulation than they do, and they don't, they don't see it.
• 26:56
  But, it's a hard part of what we do, for sure, to kind of name that in people, but I think once it clicks, people are willing to start, like, seeing it and, like, working on that, um, which is, I think, ultimately, too, why we have Kara helping and, doing that.
• 27:12
  But- I love, like, what you said too about, like, the evidence, the evidence.
• 27:16
  Like, I've been talking to my clients a ton about the evidence journal lately, and it's something I, like, love to cheer them on to do as well because, like, if you can see it, it's helpful, you know?
• 27:29
  It's like I'm writing this down because I saw today that when, I don't know, I took five deep breaths before my meal, I felt better.
• 27:37
  And then, like, write that down.
• 27:39
  And so anyways, it is a huge, it is a huge component.
• 27:43
  Um, and sometimes too, like, we have, um, as part of our nervous system, like, the things we know to be true or that we think are true about ourselves.
• 27:53
  So, like, the identity component of I'm just the constipated one, or I just...
• 27:58
  Like, I'm the one who has to do XYZ differently, or I'm always, like, looking at the menu ahead of time or something like that, which is like what you said.
• 28:07
  It's you, like, kind of your brain trying to protect, um, itself from whatever it is, like, a feeling that's uncomfortable or, um, I don't know, an embarrassing moment at a restaurant when you have to ask a question or whatever it is.
• 28:23
  But, the identity, like, piece is really hard, to work through with people.
• 28:29
  And then you have, the other types of patterns too.
• 28:32
  Like, we have really high, really high achievers, achiever clients and, like, type A women who are really good at what they do.
• 28:40
  And so even in that space too, it's, I think, hard to say,"I don't know what I'm doing right here," or,"I'm not the expert in this case." And, um, it feels like failure, which most of us are not comfortable with failure, failure.
• 28:56
  Ultimately, I, I think, like, in areas it's a good thing,'cause how else do we change- or get better or grow or whatever.
• 29:03
  But, still is super hard.
• 29:05
  So I feel like a lot of the times, like, we, on our client calls, of course, we spend time, like, talking about, like,"Here's your test results, and here's what your blood work says," or,"Here's what your GI map says," and, like,"Thank you for sharing everything you just shared about your life and what you do for fun and how that looks because this is...
• 29:25
  this could be how it actually all connects together." Which is nice, to have someone connect the dots for, for you.
• 29:33
  So anyways, the high achievers I think, struggle too.
• 29:36
  But, let's see.
• 29:37
  Hypervigilance, I think too, like, if people have been in a place of discomfort for a long time, or they've had these symptoms for a long time, or they are really, like, really observant,, or just hyper-aware of these kinds of things, then it can also flare up, like, the nervous system response too of, like, kind of what Macy said.
• 29:57
  Like, I tried this thing and it made me feel 100 times worse.
• 30:02
  Just having that, like, deeper awareness of your body I think too can be really challenging.
• 30:08
  So a lot of the times, like, what Cara does, and what we try to do too on our calls is like, okay, yes, like you had that experience, and, what can we do now to, like, reframe the thought or challenge the thought or, whatever that looks like for kinda your specific case?
• 30:28
  But, yeah, we h- the hypervigilance piece can be really challenging on a nervous system perspective, definitely.
• 30:34
  Let's see.
• 30:36
  What else would you add?
• 30:38
  I think that sums it up perfectly.
• 30:39
  Okay.
• 30:39
  Okay.
• 30:39
  It's like the, it, and I, I think the word nervous system, it's becoming more trendy for sure, but I also think that it can be really intimidating for people.
• 30:49
  They hear nervous system and they think all of a sudden it's, like, another thing to do.
• 30:54
  And I know we were talking about that on our team meeting this week, where it's like this is not just another box to check, this is how you live.
• 31:01
  Like, this is how you carry yourself, and when you have a regulated nervous system, you actually have capacity for so much more.
• 31:09
  I mean, I've seen that in my own life.
• 31:11
  Like, you have way more capacity to handle stress, and obviously having GI issues is a huge stress, and so that's, your bucket's already full, or mostly full.
• 31:23
  But then you get a, an email or you have a hard situation at work and it's like your body just freaks out.
• 31:30
  But the more you can expand your capacity, which is what Cara always talks about, the more resilient your body becomes, and then the less the day-to-day stressors send your body completely over the edge.
• 31:41
  But it really, like, the cool part about nervous system stuff, and I mean, I'm the first person to admit I was so resistant to this for the longest time because type A, athlete, first daughter, all the things, I don't have time for that, you know, quote, unquotes.
• 31:57
  And I mean, it changed everything.
• 32:00
  Like, little simple practices totally changed everything.
• 32:04
  So if you're sitting here thinking,"Yeah right, no way"- just, I would just encourage you to have an open mind because it really, it's doesn't have to be another thing to do,, and it really can change the game, so.
• 32:19
  Okay.
• 32:20
  Last one kind of on that line, and we see this some, is comparing your healing to someone else's.
• 32:29
  It's so hard, I think, if you've had symptoms for such a long time to think,"Oh, it must be nice," you know,"for them," or,"It must be nice that this person doesn't have symptoms," or,"Why is this person getting relief faster than me?" And blinders are a skill, for sure, putting your blinders on.
• 32:49
  Sometimes it can be helpful to borrow somebody's belief, like borrow the belief that, like, this worked for me and it can work for you, and you have to know yourself well enough to know when that is helpful and also when it's helpful to just put your blinders on and stay focused on your own journey because everybody's body is different, everybody's genetics are different, your test results are different.
• 33:15
  Me and Tyler could have the exact same symptoms, but the reason why could be completely different, which is where testing and data and all those things can be so helpful, but also just staying focused on your own journey and not getting distracted in the world of information, that just because so-and-so tried this and it worked for them, staying the course.
• 33:36
  And I mean, there's so many things I could say about this.
• 33:39
  This is why having support is so helpful.
• 33:42
  You know, I, I'm sure th- this happens even more than I'm aware, but how many times do you guys get questions of like,"What do you think about this supplement?" or,"Should I try this?" or people trying to, you know, maybe change the plan because of something that they saw?
• 33:58
  Yeah, that happens multiple times every single day.
• 34:01
  Yeah, every day.
• 34:01
  Yeah, I mean, and like, honestly, I don't blame them.
• 34:04
  Like, it's so hard, especially because of Instagram and TikTok and YouTube and, you know, all these things that it's easy to think,"Oh, maybe that is the missing piece." And so knowing when to put your blinders on, I think, can be so helpful.
• 34:19
  And nervous system regulation is a piece of that, like not getting swayed by just the emotions of, like, having a bad day or having a flare, being able...
• 34:28
  Someone, I don't, maybe it was you, Tyler, or maybe it was Hannah, I don't know.
• 34:32
  Someone said on the team meeting, the only way through is through.
• 34:35
  Like, sometimes you just have to get through it.
• 34:37
  Yeah.
• 34:37
  Like, you just gotta get through it.
• 34:39
  And, you know, working on, like, thoughts and capacity and all the things that we talked about are, are so critical there.
• 34:47
  So I would love to know from each of you just how do you coach a client through,"It's working for everybody but me," or,"Why is this taking longer?" These are common questions that we get from clients.
• 35:01
  yeah, I would say I always like to chat with clients about, like, stalled progress, setbacks, because, you know, one, I think those are extremely common and actually normal.
• 35:15
  Like, there's always gonna be a little bit of a bump in the road.
• 35:18
  I always kind of describe the healing journey, and Heather, I probably got this from you at some point, but, like, obviously we don't wanna look, it, we want, don't want it to look like a rollercoaster, but there's gonna be some hills and, some are a little steeper than others.
• 35:32
  And we're always progressing forward, but there, there's gonna be a little bit of those, you know, hills or bumps as we go along the way.
• 35:41
  So I think kind of setting the expectation that, like, you know, hey, this is actually a normal process, and sometimes when we're, we're working on, like, deeper rooted imbalances, sometimes it really does feel like it gets a little worse before it gets better.
• 35:55
  And so I think just, like, being up front about, like, expectations and, like, you know, hey, this isn't, it's not working.
• 36:02
  It's maybe just, you know, maybe it's a little we took a step forward, or excuse me, we took a step back.
• 36:07
  But I always think, too, like, you know, setbacks, stalled progress, whatever you might wanna call it, they're just, you know, they're just a current situation.
• 36:15
  They're not, like, the final destination.
• 36:17
  So sometimes that might look like, hey, let's just keep on keeping through, or keep on keeping on, and the only way through is through, like Heather said, or sometimes, hey, let's actually take a step back, maybe reassess the plan.
• 36:30
  Do we wanna tweak things?
• 36:31
  You know, is there maybe a life stressor that happened that we need to work on?
• 36:34
  Whatever that may be.
• 36:35
  But just knowing, like, it's a current situation.
• 36:39
  There's always a path forward and, and healing's always possible, regardless of maybe your, your current situation.
• 36:46
  One thing I'll also add to that, Macy, is like you get it.
• 36:50
  You know?
• 36:50
  Like, you've been on that rollercoaster- Mm-hmm and I think for some clients, like that's all they need to hear is like,"Hey, I've- Yeah been in the exact shoes that you are.
• 37:01
  Borrow my belief today." Mm-hmm.
• 37:02
  That like look at me now.
• 37:05
  Yeah, for sure.
• 37:06
  Like, I'm out there.
• 37:06
  I think that's, I think that is really helpful for clients.
• 37:08
  I mean, when you've had symptoms for years and years and years, sometimes, you know, sometimes you have days where like your motivation's high and you're positive and things are...
• 37:20
  You're like,"Ugh, I don't feel good, but I'm, my mental state's there and I'm gonna be positive about the situation." And, and sometimes you have days where, you know, that's all out the window, and I think that's normal.
• 37:29
  But I think just me being able to like relate to clients in that state and just, you know, telling them like, obviously our situations are different, but there's always hope.
• 37:41
  You know, the hope is never lost, and I think that's, that's helpful mentally for a client that's maybe in that, that stalled progress, part of their journey.
• 37:51
  Yeah.
• 37:51
  And one thing I try to say too, and, like in the most encouraging way, when people feel like it's not working for them, is like oftentimes, like we are still in the middle of it.
• 38:04
  Like, if we were talking about the journey and this whole like body of so many reactions and systems and all the things, like I can't tell you like where, or I can't tell your body exactly like where to use this specific thing that we're doing,'cause it's going to determine what is most necessary first.
• 38:24
  And like from a physiological perspective, I think that can be helpful for like thinking about the timeline.
• 38:30
  But also knowing too, like, this is something we do a lot.
• 38:33
  Like,"Can we name like three things, even that you have seen, um, maybe it's not current, but o- over your last few months that have been positive shifts?" And I think that's really helpful.
• 38:46
  So that's a piece of the evidence journal.
• 38:48
  And also just helps them like shift their thoughts from something spirally like that to something, forward.
• 38:57
  It can be really helpful too.
• 38:59
  I love that.
• 39:00
  And I think it's just, it's sometimes people just need to hear it over and over- Yeah and over again.
• 39:05
  So I know that people will just be so encouraged by this episode, and maybe go back and listen to it again on a day that they need it.
• 39:15
  But any last final thoughts that maybe you wanna leave with someone who might feel like,"I- I'm still symptomatic.
• 39:25
  I'm wondering if I'm, if any of these roadblocks apply to me.
• 39:28
  I'm worried about trying again." Any, any words of wisdom?
• 39:33
  I, the first thought that came to my mind t- is like we, I feel like we are just like so, I, like I'm on your team feeling.
• 39:42
  Like they may or may not be actually working with us, but, like if what you said earlier, our goal is for them to like go out in the world and kind of do what they want, then that's- that's an us like goal.
• 39:56
  You know what I mean?
• 39:57
  So it's, I just would never want them to feel like they're alone really in it.
• 40:00
  And we think about our clients a lot because we care.
• 40:04
  So- yeah, I, if anything, like they may be feeling the symptom by themselves, but we are thinking of them and with them.
• 40:12
  If that makes sense.
• 40:13
  I love that so much.
• 40:14
  I am just such a cheerleader.
• 40:16
  You are.
• 40:16
  I can't help it.
• 40:16
  I love it.
• 40:19
  Yeah, I think the other thing along those lines too is like whether you're a current client listening to this, or maybe you're someone that's not working with us- You know, don't be afraid to, to actually ask for help.
• 40:30
  And I think knowing, like I mentioned earlier, like your current situation is never your final destination.
• 40:36
  Like regardless of how hard it may be, like there really is always hope.
• 40:40
  And, and sometimes just finding somebody to be like your cheerleader and, put all the pieces together for you can be really, really helpful so it's not all on you to, to figure out, maybe your next steps forward.
• 40:52
  You guys are the best.
• 40:53
  This was so fun.
• 40:54
  How do you feel after your first podcast?
• 40:57
  Good.
• 40:57
  That was fun.
• 40:58
  Actually, like it was kind of fun.
• 40:59
  Yeah.
• 41:00
  Are you ready to do another one?
• 41:02
  Maybe.
• 41:03
  What's the second one?
• 41:04
  I think we're gonna do one on iron and ferritin if you guys are up for it.
• 41:09
  Thank you guys so much for listening in.
• 41:11
  I hope that this episode encouraged you and just gave you some tools and things to think about.
• 41:16
  Like Tyler said, I think she said it best, like we are on your team, and we're Team You, and we're here for you whether you are a client or not.
• 41:24
  We hope that any of the content that we provide is a resource for you, and that you just know that you're not alone, and that there is hope, and you can borrow our belief that it is possible even if you feel like you've tried everything.
• 41:37
  So thanks for tuning in to today's episode.
• 41:40
  I think we're gonna record the second part of this if we have time before they fly out.
• 41:45
  So you'll have to catch that episode, on, on the next episode of the Love Your Gut podcast.
• 41:50
  But thanks, guys, for joining.
• 41:51
  Yay.
• 41:53
  Thanks for having us.
• 41:54
  Thanks for having us So we did end up recording a part two, but I also cut some bloopers out of this episode and decided to just keep them in.
• 42:03
  So if you've listened this long, enjoy just a few bloopers, and tune in next week for part two on iron and ferritin all right.
• 42:15
  Welcome to the Love Your Gut podcast, guys.
• 42:18
  You can, like, edit stuff, right?
• 42:19
  Yes.
• 42:20
  If things go a little- So I can say, like,"Heather, cut that." Yeah.
• 42:23
  Oh.
• 42:24
  Yeah.
• 42:25
  Please cut that.
• 42:25
  Please cut.
• 42:26
  Okay, so let me see what I would, what I would say.
• 42:32
  I said we did pictures, right?
• 42:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 42:35
  So I realized I didn't even introduce you guys.
• 42:38
  I just went straight into it.
• 42:40
  I'm gonna edit this and, like, oh, wait, do we have that in our email?
• 42:43
  Oh, I didn't know we were still on that.
• 42:45
  No, no, you're good.
• 42:48
  Yeah.
• 42:48
  Oh.
• 42:49
  Let's see.
• 42:51
  Okay, I'm gonna wrap the podcast.