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It's Time for the Church to be Led By Women | Maintaining Frame 131 · Honey Badger Radio

• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. I hope
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: you guys are doing well today on this Monday, and
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: you are this Monday of all mondays. Yeah, like you know,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: the Christmas season is coming up and the gifts just
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: keep giving. I guess, so we are gonna be looking
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: at this video. This is, by the way, maintaining frame
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: uh number one thirty. It's time for the church to
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: be led by women. So, I mean, that was the
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: title I chose. I thought it was. It's basically the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: argument that's being made.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: You'll just float an idea, okay, all right, so I did.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I did a video on basically how we use this
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: condemnation of men's sexuality in order to justify women's moral superiority.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: And in that video I suggested that a lot of this,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of religion, is really about giving men in
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: masculinity a chance, you know what I mean? In the
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: greater and the thing is that men do. I know
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: this sounds really country to everything everybody's taught, but men
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: actually do cooperate in very elaborate ways and systemic ways,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: which human beings are very interesting because cooperation appears to
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: be something that is attractive to women. I know that
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: sounds really weird. It's when men cooperate. So if you
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: expose men to the pheromones, well, the alleged pheomones, because
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: we don't who haven't actually identified feomones in humans, But
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: if you expose them to the secretions, doesn't sound as nice.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Of fertile women, they tend to cooperate more with other men.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: So it's the suggestion there is that cooperation is selected
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: for in terms of reproduction, and because of that, men
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: human men cooperate very well. And it's got its downside
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: because you know, war is a huge amount of cooperation
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: to destroy the other side. But this evolution has enabled
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: the human race to survive. This, this ability for men
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: to cooperate has enabled the human race to survive. And
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I think religion is just the means by which we
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: get that cooperation at its highest level so that it
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: can it can build the society around us. And this
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: idea of men leading in the religion, it's not really
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, it has a really functional purpose because I
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: think women in and of themselves, I don't think that
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: they completely understand the systems that arise out of that
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: high degree of cooperation and how people in those kinds
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: of systems, Men in those signs of systems communicate. So
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: religion is about saying, hey, sometimes you need to take
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: a back seat, because women tend to have a lot
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: of social power, and they tend to control the social
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: melieu and people's you know, perceptions of things, and they're
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: the ones that, for example, if you watch a movie,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: something happens, does the what does the director cut to
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: a woman responding to that thing happening. Women sort of
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: set the emotional tone of events. So women can utterly
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: destroy men. They can utterly destroy men's connection to society.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: They can utterly destroy this entire cooperative edifice that the
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: even that the women themselves rely on. And I think
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: religion is about, hey, don't do that. You know, it's
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: not to your own benefit, and it's not to men's benefit,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: but it's even less to your own benefit, ladies, So
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: just take a back seat sometimes, recognize that men know
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: what they're doing, and uh, and stow the social power
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: for a bit. And I think that that's been a
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: way that we've managed to make very advanced and productive civilizations.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: And hopefully that wasn't too confusing.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: And I will let speak I know, I get it,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: but let's uh, let's get into the video. Before we do.
• 5:42
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• 5:44
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• 5:47
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• 5:49
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• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Put like on the vertical chat too if you're yeah, I'm.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Talking about both streams, the vertical and the horizontal. Yeah,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: so yeah, we're gonna be looking at this. Oh and also,
• 6:04
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• 6:06
  Speaker 1: an suv, also hit like and help broadcast this whoever
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: you are fed drone.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: But anyway, let's recidic I feel like I've missed.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: We know there, we were there. There's there are supposedly
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: fifty drones the size of SUVs flying around the Eastern seaboard,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: and there's a lot of discussion about whether or not
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: as an Iranian attack or it is aliens. But I
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: think it's just our government trying to make more money.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: So anyway, well, part of the Alphabet Agency just doing more.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just another Alphabet Agency person doing what they.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Do more more crazy, you know, alphabet shenanigans.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: So anyway, let's let's get into the video. This is
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: from Manifestel. It's called I'm Glad I'm Not Mormon, and
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: it talks about essentially like what what well leadership in
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: the church. Uh, this is going to be a conversation
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: on some level about religion if you're not religious, though,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I think you should listen anyway, because it really isn't
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: about that, you know, as I say, the thing is
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: not actually about the thing, and don't be distracted by that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: So but anyway, before I do, Alex and you should
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: probably do the thing.
• 7:26
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• 8:05
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• 8:12
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• 8:14
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• 8:15
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• 8:18
  Speaker 2: And I want to thank Richard for making the suggestion
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: of this show.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: What did you make? Is that? Jenuar? No? All right,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: let's uh, let's see me. Let me I'm gonna jump
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: to where she starts talking, So let me see here.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to you know, we'll play the intro.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Let's just play the intro. All right, We're gonna go
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: ahead and start it.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: I've been praying to God, thanking him, thank you for
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: not making me more man, because, oh my God, that
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: would suck.
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: Women were me to desire their husbands and let them rule.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: Men were to trust God and wait for their perfect husband.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: Men's voices were public, while women's voices were private. When
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: women did take charge, it was either sinful or because
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: men had failed to do their jobs.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I will make way more than he will ever make.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: She's the provider of Women's position was supportive and secondary
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: unless she had to temporarily step into leadership when men
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: could not. Complementary theology.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Women's positions greater society is still secondary. Like, let's be
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: honest here, you're not storming the beaches of utilities and
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: all of the stuff that keep society running. You still secondary.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: You're still mostly going into nursing, childcares, beach therapy, maybe
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: some clerk jobs. You're still doing the same jobs that
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: you did one hundred years ago. And honestly, any woman
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: who says, well, we don't want to be secondary, okay,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: you don't want to be secondary. Don't go after the
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: CEO positions, Go after the garbage positions, go after the
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: sewer work, go after the positions that make life possible.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Otherwise you are secondary. Like like, I mean, this is
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: what's infuriating. It's like they're like, oh, we don't want
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: to be secondary, but you're not making any effort not
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: to be, and then you blame the Mormons for being like, oh,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: women are secondary. Observing observable reality. The Mormons have observed reality.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Women don't want to be in the positions of high risk,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: discomfort and difficulty and lots of work. They don't want
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: those positions, and yet those are the positions that make
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: all the other, all the other roles possible. And the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Mormons look at this and they say, Okay, well that's
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: a thing, and you guys have not changed that thing,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: you know. And I'm pretty sure the women who are
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: picking up the garbage are bitching on YouTube channels. Okay,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: So I just wanted to say that because it's like
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: they're all like, oh, Mormons say, women are secondary. Yeah,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: well you haven't challenged that. You still are secondary.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I seriously doubt that anyways, No doubt. They're just claiming
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: it because well, wait till you find out what her
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: resource is for all of this, all of these assumptions.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: But can I make it?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Can I make it just a qualification of what I'm saying.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: If you see the world in terms of work being
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: what determines what's primary and secondary. After seventy years of feminism,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: women are still in secondary roles, right, And you still
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: don't want the primary roles because those primary roles costs
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: come with costs that most women don't want to bear.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: And that's fine, But can we just be honest now,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: But that is just an observation based on the idea
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: of putting work First, I don't think Mormons do. I
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: don't think Mormons think that women are lesser than men.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Maybe in the context of work they are secondary, But
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: do Mormons really think that women are lesser than men?
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. I
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: know a couple of Mormons that live around here, and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: they seem, of course, the wives are they feel loved
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: and them and the husbands love them and like that.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: And I don't really and I don't. I don't. It's
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: just like any other marriage. Like when I learned they
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: were Mormons, I was kind of Oh, I didn't. I'd like,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: they just seem like everybody else.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, So if they they do have a statement, is
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: it that like women are secondary overall, or that women
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: are secondary in work and primary in the home. Like,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I don't even think they get into it to that degree.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: It's surprised if they didn't.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, anyway, let's let's play the more of
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: this headship.
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: Biblical womanhood, all of that is wrong. This was my
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: understanding of biblical womanhood. Elizabeth Elliott famously comminity receives women surrender,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: help and respond, while husbands provide, protect, and initiate. Okay,
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: a biblical woman.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: But you okay, but there's this is a reciprocal relationship.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: You're just focusing on the one. And incidentally, how does
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: adopting a position of complete victimhood anything but surrender. It's
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: like the worst kind of surrender because you're saying all
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: you can do is surrender to men, and they're awful.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: They're saying, you surrender to men. But he has reciprocal
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: obligations of protected protection and provision. He's got a step
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: in front of the of the world to protect you.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: And instead you have replaced I surrender to men and
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: they protect me with I surrender to men and they're horrible. Congratulations.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that's great for your self esteem. Again, nothing changes,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: nothing has changed, You've done nothing. Your revolution is a
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: wet fart.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: Okay, all right, it is a submissive woman.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Hey, bestie, Okay, let me just jump ahead to her first.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Like I'm being covered with venom.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Whenever she says that, I know it's her. It's her tagline.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: She plays a character so.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: It looks so evil, like.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she likes she likes that, she.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Likes hyper ass taking you to your doom.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, I guess. Okay, Well, let's jump ahead. So
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: she basically sets up the topic and she talks about
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: a where she is what she is responding to or
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: using as her sort of like baseline to discuss this
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: topic from is a reality TV show? No, I'm not kidding.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: A reality TV show called The Real Lives of Mormon
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: or Real Housewives of Mormons. I don't know. It's a
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: it's a Mormon housewife reality TV show. Okay, reality TV.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I think reality TV is fake. No, it is fake
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: most of the time. So she's looking and here's how
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I know. Here's how you know it's fake. By the way,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: So it's like the Real Housewives of Mormon of Mormon
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Lives or something like that, and it's on Hulu, and
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Hulu is owned by Disney, So it's a Disney show
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: about Mormons. Do you think that it's gonna be honest
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: about that? Do you think that it's gonna be real?
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: So we have to look, we have to understand the context.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: We're already talking about two layers of fake before Manifestel
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: put her own fake on top of it, and then
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: she's gonna respond to it like it's real because no, Actually,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: we're gonna get into this more. But you know what's funny,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Manifest sells video about why women should be leaders in
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: churches like pastors and bishops and so on. The video
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: that she makes is proof of why they shouldn't be so,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: and it's it's her because of the way that essentially
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: where she pulls all of her references and how she
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: builds her argument. So but anyway, I'm gonna jump ahead
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: to where she starts talking about a book called The
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Making of Biblical Womanhood, which is, if I remember correctly,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: it is written by a feminist, so it is already
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: full of shit in the same way that like Julie Bindle.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I think it was Julie Bindle that we responded to
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the other day. She was supposedly raised Catholic, so therefore
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: she understands, you know, like the thing that she's criticizing.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: But she's literally a political lesbian. And I don't even
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: say that to make fun of her. That's like what
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: she is. So how could she possibly have anything to
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: say that's positive about Catholicism or even fair? But anyway,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: so she's talking about this book called The Making or
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: by Beth Alison Barr. If you can look, you can
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: look her up if you want to see what else
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: she's done, called the making of Biblical womanhood, How the
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: subjugation of women became gospel truth, The subjugation of women,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: How the subjugation of women became gospel truth. Okay, so
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: let's play some more of this and listen to her points.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: About mystic view of the original teachings of the Bible.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: And when I read this book, let me tell you,
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: my spoiled girly mind was blown. She was blown, shattered
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: and floating around in the galaxy. And I have to
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: piece it all back together so I can make today's class.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Now we have a lot to cover. But before we
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: get into it, all right.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: So she said that this book paints a more optimistic
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: view on essentially women in the religious context, okay, which
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: basically means a feminist view, which basically means it's anti religious.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: It's actually the worst kind of feminism in a way,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: because it's taking something that should be like whoever wants
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: to live that way, they should, and then they intentionally
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: go through the Bible, misinterpret things, take it out of context,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: write whatever they want about it, and then say, look, ladies,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to take this thing over and burn it
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: all down. And that's kind of like I'm sorry to say, guys,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: if you're not religious, but you're wondering what happened to
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: our culture. It started with the church, and this has
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: been going on for a long time, and Manifestel is
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: just saying we're not done yet. Basically, I mean, she
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: doesn't know it. She probably thinks that it's still patriarchal
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: or whatever. But you can look at Protestant churches across
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: the country that have been paused by like female deacons
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: and female pastors that brought their emotionality and their progressive
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: values into the church and basically aid it from the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: inside out, making it useless, especially as a moral guard
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: against like, you know, sinful behavior that women and men.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: You know, we all engage in it, but it essentially
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: permits women more so. But anyway, I'm gonna get off
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: my hoigh horse about that. That's that's not what this
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: is about, because the thing is not about the thing, right,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: It's only about the revolution.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Can I just point something out? Yeah, go ahead, then
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: create men led religions. They have provisions. They say things
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: like please listen to us, ladies, and also in response,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: we will protect and provide for you. So they when
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: men are in charge, they take care of women, and
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: they say things like you must sacrifice for your wife,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: like Christ's sacrifice for the church, which is pretty signific
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: against sacrifice if you think about it. So when men
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: are in charge, they still maintain an expectation of sacrifice
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: for the protection and provision of women. When women are
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: in charge, do they turn around and say, hey, we
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: need to use whatever powers we have as women to
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: protect and provide for our fellow male citizens.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: No.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: So when women in charge, one half of the human
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: race is shoved into the cold. And I can tell
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: because look, does manifestel express any responsibility for the half
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: of the human race that she is expected to have
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: control over.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: No.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Yet when men are in power, they say things like
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: men should protect women. Every single male led religion has
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: the expectation that men protect women, sometimes it's in the
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: context of their greater social group, but that men protect women,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: that men provide for women in situations where men have
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: jobs that only they can have. And in fact, the
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: more men are expected to lead, the more they're expected
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: to sacrifice. And yet in women led communities and religions
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: that doesn't exist. Men just to just float off into
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the cold because for whatever reason, women don't seem to
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: have the expectation that they should protect and provide for men.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's you can see it in like native communities.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I would have to look more closely
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: at it. But for the most part, when women are
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: in charge, they don't think to themselves, hey, you know,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: if I'm in charge and there are men who aren't,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I should be helping them out. No. And that's a
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: really big problem. And in fact, if you think about it,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: that one thing could explain why men led everything succeeds
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: over women led anything, because men in power make sure
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: that women are taken care of. That means everybody in
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: society has something. But when women are in power, who
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: do they who do they take care of? And you
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: can't argue with that because here is Manifestel saying this.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I guess she doesn't at any moment does she say, hmm, well,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: now that we're in power, doesn't that means we have
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: responsibility for men who aren't. No. And like I said,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: a society that takes care is more people, is more
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: successful than a society that takes care of less. Therefore,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: female led societies are gonna fail. Okay, and they have
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: all right, I'm gonna get off my high worsen.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: All right, No, that's okay. Let's let's listen to more.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So she's talking about this book and this new direction
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: or this new spin that she's gotten out of it.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: I need to say the like subscribe and the notification Belsa.
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: You never miss spelled early episode without being said, oh,
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: let's get into it. Ever since the Netflix reality TV
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: show The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives came out, we
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: have been in our Mormon course era. And this video
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: that I'm gonna play, sorry, it's just.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: The zoom the zoomer talk just drives me up the wall.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: We're in our our Mormon discourse era. What the hell
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: does that mean?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, well it means we're talking about this now.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, but this could change, this could change, right.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's maybe it's an illusion to how mercurial their
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: sense of self is. If they have one, it's like
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: you're having a conversation. It's not a fucking era. You
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: have multiple. Fact, you can have multiple conversations at once,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: so you're having multiple eras at once faking. It's just
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: the total particleization of human consciousness. It's bizarre. But the
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: point one thing I wanted to point out is those
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: are some seriously salacious female Mormons that looks like there,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: this is the Mormon pin up calendar.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: It's Disney. I'm saying like, it's it's Disney. I don't
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: think anything there's anything authentic coming out of that.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: So Disney is definitely not synonymous with often or not
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: family friendly anymore.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: No, no, it's not okay, So let's uh, let's.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: Keep going captures how a lot of women feel about it.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Watching Secret Lives and Mormon Wives has made me realize that,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: you know what, your life could be going so bad,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: but at least you're not Mormon. Just think about that,
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: and am I being mean? I am okay, I was Mormon.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: I'm twenty one. I would probably have been married and
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: had like a child or like multiple children at this point.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: And what a scary thought that is like the past
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: four yeah, I just out thinking him.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Any any traditionalists I've been praying Indians, sorry, any traditionalists
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: from India, this is what your daughter's turn into after
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: a generation, So reconsider moving like yeah, I'm sorry. You
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: come from a very traditionalist culture, and I don't even
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: think Mormon is that bad. Why did we go back
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: to the beginning.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: It was an accident. I moved. I was trying to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: like pause it, and then my mouse sometimes just jets
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: off someplace money. I gotta like, yeah, like sometimes that happens.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I kind of hate it. Okay, So I think this
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: is right where I am. Okay, So, yes, you're right.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I mean she's a modern Indian woman living in the West,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: and so well the women spreads.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the the the absolute destruction. Like what does it
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: say that women gain rights and stop breeding? Like literally,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: you are question You are saying that rights women's rights
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: is incompatible with survival as a species. That is why,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: why why are you doing this?
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Okay anyway, because like they never mind, let's just place
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: some more.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: I thought that is like the past four days I've
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: been praying to God, thanking him, thank you for not
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: making me Mormon, because oh my God, that would suck.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, what, well, just a boring him and be like,
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: oh thank God, I'm not being a victim of this.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, but that's good enough for manifestel. She's just
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: like That's what I wanted to hear was someone who,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: if she grew up Mormon, probably wouldn't mind being Mormon. Well,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: because she's on the outside looking in, and she's also
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: looking through the looking at this world through a lens
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: made by a company that is openly hostile to Christians,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Like they're openly hostile to them, Like they're staffed by
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: like queer, gay race communists, Like that's who works at
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Disney now, who runs Disney? Now? Do you think they're
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: gonna give you a fair shake on like whatever, you know,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: if you're not towing the line with them. And then
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: this woman watches it in that context, she's like, oh
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: my god, I'm so glad I'm not one of those.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Well you don't know that because you didn't. You never
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: were that. You're just looking at reality TV and making judgments.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: This is literally the reason why like women shouldn't be
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: in positions of power in this regard, because they're looking
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: at like can you imagine someone in leadership using reality
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: TV as the basis for policy. Well, I saw this
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: reality show, and you Mormons need to be rained in,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: so I'm gonna take away your rights like what I mean?
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: But that's what's happening. That's what this is.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, he's she's got a little bit of the of
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: the Asian grandma. Look, someone was mentioning in the chat
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: right now, but there is an individual who sent a text.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this is genuine, but it's from
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: VAV and he or she says, can you wish happy
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: birthday to my mom. She's in the military and will
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: be deployed Egypt tomorrow. I'm not sure if I should
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: say her name because this isn't exactly a channel that
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: you necessarily want to associated with, but Sergeant Annie, So
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: happy birthday to Sergeant Annie, and thank you for your service.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: You know I like Honestly, my position is that women
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: either need to support men in doing the work, or
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: they need to do it themselves right, or they need
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: to take part in doing it themselves. And maybe if
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: they did take part in doing it themselves a little bit,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: many more of them would understand the work and realize
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: that it's actually a pretty privileged position to be just
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: supporting it rather than having to do it anyway, So
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: thank you happy birthday. Hopefully I haven't destroyed your life
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: by mentioning part of your name, Okay, all right.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Let's let's keep going.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, watch the show. It's kind of hard to disagree
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: with her. The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives follows a
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: group of young women, all mothers and some wives, as
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: they navigate their faith, their careers, their identities, marriages and
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: relationships and children and homemaking. Like that's a lot of
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: things to navigate and juggle and work on. And they're
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: all in this group.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: That's life. Mm hmm. Like any Like it's funny, she
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: says all that, But like any in this time in
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the West, if you are a woman and you are
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: married to a man and you have children, you are
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: doing those things already. You don't have to be Mormon.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah you know what I mean, Like they have to navigate.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Well, they have more kids beating.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Water and yeah, they have breathing and.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, and like getting eight hours of
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: sleep and three square meals and maybe.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Even like what you know, like, oh my god, those
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Mormons just crushing crushing lives.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, anyway, I'm.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Sorry I interwed, mom talk what I interrupted you? So?
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: I feel bad.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: No, it's okay, I'm gonna I said. I'm just saying,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: like she's manifestel is showing her ass. She's basically saying,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I don't want to like have a life where I
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: have to work, and these women are doing that. They're
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: doing the thing that most normal people do, which is,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: you know, get married, started family and work.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: They're just life. You know what I thought there is
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: that one thing that cursed me is that Mormon actually
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: religion in general also reigns in women's competition with each other,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: which means that these Mormon women may actually be, because
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: of their faith, more capable of helping and providing for
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: each other as they go through their life. And I
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: wonder if this is not jealousy or envy, Sorry I'd
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: use the wrong term envy, if this is not also
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: motivated by envy, because you like I'm There was that
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: one video that I think Better Bachelor shared and they
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: were all a lot of people, a lot of the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: red Pill was upset about it. I was just like,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I was grossed out because they were handling each other's pee.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: But other than that, I was like, eh, you know,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: it's not something I would do. But then I'm a
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: weird hermit and I don't understand social stuff very well.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: But there were just Mormon women who were taking joy
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: in each other's At least one person said this that
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: they were just Mormon women taking joy in each other's
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: forming families, you know, being happy for each other and
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: supporting each other, you know. And that's the thing. That's
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: the other thing that religion does. By making women responsible
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: and also by making women listen to men, they gain
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: some of the skills that men have making and keeping friendships.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: That in turn becomes about, you know, having the self
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: discipline to not destroy your friendships with envy and not
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: destroy your friendships because another woman has something that you want,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: or to try to take that from her, to actually
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: learn to be a good friend. This is something that
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: I've noticed with religion. I mean, maybe there's a way
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: you can make in a humanist, but this idea that
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: you are responsible to others can also make you a
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: good friend. And maybe that's what Mormonism has done for
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: these women. Because it's so far all they they've said,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: all they've complained about is that Mormons have to deal
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: with life. Well, yes, what we all do. The question
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: is does their Mormonism make it easier for them to
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: deal with that life and to live a life of
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: dignity and respect for themselves and others. Let's find out.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's keep going.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: And their influencers and for the most part, they're the
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: breadwinners for their families. And as we talked about in
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: a past class, Mormons are born and bred to be
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: influencers due to their high standards and expectations of beauty
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: and because of their cultural practices of journaling and documenting
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: their lives as Yeah.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I remember when the Mormons first came to America and
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: they were like, we're gonna be influencers. They're gonna make
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: that our whole thing. I mean, like, well, no, I
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: mean like Mormons have like there they believe in they
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: take the What I think, because I don't know for sure,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: is I never really looked into it too much. But
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: what I believe is is that they're at the end
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: of Genesis, or like not the end of Genesis, but
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: after the fall. Okay. God tells Adam to essentially as
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: like part of his path to repent retribution is to
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: rebuild the garden of Eden in the world, right to
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: like to like grow your continue the growth of the
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: garden outside. And I think the Mormons and Protestants generally,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: like they take that to heart as to like try
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: to you know, make glorify God through their production of
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. Like that's why they stay, you know,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: are really good at at starting businesses and things like that.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Mormons don't just have large families because they're encouraged to, like,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: you know, what is it, go forth and multiply, but
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: also to turn that family into a business. Like the
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: people in the family all work in the business together,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: and they network with other Mormon families and businesses. Some
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: of them they influence. Yeah, they're very They're one of the.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Most cultural groups. So they're they're making a bank like
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of them.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very Yes, So I'm saying they do very well.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: And a lot of it has to do with their
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: close knit, you know, family structure, and that makes them
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: successful and and they also network with each other. And
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I think that manifestel is well, I don't know, she
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: just she thinks that it's it equals influence, which I
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: think is just a really shallow way.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: To look at I'm wondering if this is really envy
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: And once again she's schlepping her toxic ass into a
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: community that's functional and and yeah, took poison all over it. Ya,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: I know that she's probably okay, all right, I'm gonna,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna. I want to in the interest of actually
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: not having to look at her for the next three hours,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I will. I will be quiet and let you find
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the next time code and list.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: All right, let me let I can jump ahead. But
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I got a super child from Richard. Richard Bierre gave
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: us a superchold for five bucks. And he says that
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: woman's prayer, excuse me, that woman's prayer of thanksgiving for
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: not being made a Mormon sounds remarkably like the prayer
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: of the Pharisee in the parable that Jesus told. However,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: the second part was that of the prayer of the
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: tax collector asking for mercy upon a sinner. Thank you
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: for that, Richard. Okay, so let me just make sure
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't miss any other superchows or anything. I think
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: we're good, So we're gonna continue. Let me jump to
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the next bit here. So let's go to commentary on
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: the secret lives of Mormon wives. Oh, I was just
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: getting to that point, I think.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, can we yeah, let's keep an Actually, I
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: guess one of the more sat what I said.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Let's get to an actual thesis a statement.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let me jump ahead.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Then oh no, no, you know what, let's see let's
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: let's see what she says about what what?
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Let's just again the more satisfying aspects of watching the show. Yeah,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: so here's the thing too, Okay. She thinks the women
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: on the show are oppressed because they have to juggle
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: all of these different you could say, responsibilities. Whoa, what's
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: that ladies? And that means it's really hard. So they
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: must be oppressed and their men must be part of
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: the problem. But she loves the show and she can't
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: stop watching it. Hmmm, oh there, she's very she finds
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: it very satisfying to watch what does that? What does
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: that mean? Okay, and it's not because she's crying because
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: they're so oppressed, but there is like she's fascinated by it,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: and she probably is jealous, like Alice said, and let's
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: let's keep going. Yeah, envious.
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: Satisfying aspects of watching this show is realizing that Mormons
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: they're just like us.
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, they're exactly not not surprising, they they juggle
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: their I don't know, she says, yeah, go ahead.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Again, like, yes, they they're dealing with exactly the same
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: things as everybody else. Is the question is does their
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Mormon faith and their Mormon community help them or hinder them? Yeah,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: because you can live in a cult without actually living
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: in a cult compound. And the way that you do
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: that is by believing crap that almost becomes a aerocite
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: on your life, like men oppressed women. You know, that
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: puts you in a cult. You have cultish beliefs about
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: the world that you maintain without even having a cult leader.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't help you manage your life. In fact,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: it does the reverse. So the real question is does
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: whatever the Mormons do help them get through the day.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're pretty damn successful community.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Yep, they are. They while they're focused, Okay, let's keep
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: going like us.
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: Okay, these women, they juggle their faith, their family. They're
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: figuring out who they really are, especially at such a
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: young age like early twenties, you know, like they're questioning
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: traditional gender roles. They're experiencing a lot of things for
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: the first time. They're under this pressure to be the
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: perfect wife while giving so much grace to their husbands
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: who don't for one second question themselves if they're the
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: perfect husbands.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they do. Yeah, moron, I'm sure that they
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: actually do. They just may not express it because that
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: would be burdening people.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well again, you know, it's really if
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: it's I.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Mean, there's an argument that you made that Mormonism isn't Christianity,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: but if it does follow the Bible to any degree,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: you know, a husband has to sacrifice for his wifely craft.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of perfection to live up to their
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: girly You don't think that's a little bit of pressure, right,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: And she completely omits that because the focus isn't on
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: the men. The men are just off being probably pretty
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: stoic about their lives there.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the husbands make appearances, but the show
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: centers on the women. Oh, it makes sense that there
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: would be more sympathetic the way that they would shoot
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: it again Disney Hulu Feminist.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Sported there. You know, and I'm not saying that these
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Mormons are necessarily but there is an aspect to Mormon
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: religion when you take it to it's extreme, and you
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: talk about these sort of cultish Mormon communes. In these
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: cultish Mormon communes, there are boys being kicked out for
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: any imperfection because they're not wanted. Don't give me this crap.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: And you don't even know anything about this manifestol.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: But there is, and she watches the reality TV show
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: about it. There pressure essentially an academic source.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: There's pressure put on men in normal Mormon communities. Of course,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: the general Mormon communities probably distanced themselves from these extremists.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: But it's an extremist, right. These are extremists. That means
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: they're an extreme of something, and that extreme is the
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: expectation of perfection put on Mormon boys and men. And
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: if in extreme Mormon communities, if men boys don't live
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: up to that perfection, oop gone. They're out of the community.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: They're dropped in the middle of nowhere on the roadside
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: to go fend for themselves. So fucking shove it, manifest
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: ow you Ignoramus.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, I got a rumble rant from Nova fan for
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: a dollar, and he says, Mormon influencers be like today,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: I got a million people to look through a million
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Bibles to find a million dollars parody of mister Beast
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: type videos. It's pretty good. They yeah, So, I mean
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: they're I think that they're just savvy business people. So
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: they're like, well, we're already doing all this stuff, why
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: don't we put it on Instagram make more money? And
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: they do so. But anyway, so I'll play a little
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: bit more of this because she does. She says, these
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: women are questioning their gender roles, and that's that. There's
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: another thing I thought was interesting because we're talking about
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: a supposed reality TV show about the Mormon Housewives, the
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: real lives of Hormon Mormon wives or whatever it's called,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: and they're on the show having because of course it's
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: reality TVs, who something dramatic happens every episode, right at
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: least one thing, if not multiple things, because it gets
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: women hooked in. Man Like, women love reality TV in
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: the same way they love soap operas. They just like
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: to talk about or they like to to watch other
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: people's like social Dynamics play. I know that Allison's weird
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: and doesn't do that, but like, no, this is what
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: you do.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I do. Actually, like I am still I still have
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: a few estrogen receptors in my body.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you watch reality TV.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: No, I don't.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Lindsay watches some of it, but it's like the uh,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: you know, the super tragic stuff like the Hoarders, you know,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and like that. I don't really.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Watch reality TV, but what I like is a historical drama.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's not reality TV or things that or like.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Because soap operas were kind of reality. I mean, they
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: still exist, but they're they're obviously not. But like reality
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: TV is pretending to be real because I don't think
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: it is. But uh, I mean I don't think it
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: ever was, honestly. I remember that meat well, it started
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: with that MTV show The Real World, and I think
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: everybody on that was fake. They're all trying to be
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: actors and actresses and they were just doing that to
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: like get their foot in the door. But and ever
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: since then, it's just been more fake. So you have
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: this show The Real Lives of Mormon Housewives. It's not real.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: They're pretending to be Mormons, and they got like guys
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: pretending with them, or maybe some of them are, but
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: they know this is all like we're just gonna do
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: all this for the cameras. They're just doing stuff for
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: the cameras. And then you have Manifest and on the
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: show which is produced by Disney, which is important. The
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: women are on there going I don't know about gender roles,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: what do you think about gender roles? And they're like
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: talking about this stuff in this, in this you know,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: probably meta way, so that women that are watching are like,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm so glad I'm a liberated feminist woman.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: And that's the purpose of it, like it's it's propaganda
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: as always and Manifestelle is is just drinking it like
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: the like the poison kool aid, as Bane six sixty
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: six used to say. And she's just like, I'm gonna
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: share this with the w I just had a revelation.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: These women on this fake TV show are becoming feminists
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: just like me. It makes perfect sense. And the idea
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: that they would have to like, you know, if that
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: being a mother and a wife is at all holding
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: any woman to any standards, well, that's just oppression, guys.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I gotta share this with the ladies in the world.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: And she goes out as like the you know what,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: is it like a hand me down of a hand
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: me down? Essentially, she's taking propaganda and turning it into
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: like secondhand propaganda for her for girlfriends that watch, so
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: that they could turn into third hand propaganda that I mean,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: that's that's what's happening. It's like the whole and it's
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: it's sad because she thinks that she's discovered something, and
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: in so doing, by the way, she proves why women
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be in like higher positions in the Church, which
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: is why the Church, at least in terms of like
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: the Catholic and other Apostolic you know, institutions like the
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Orthodox and the Catholics, they're they're trying really hard to
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: like keep them out. The Catholics are failing, by the way,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: but the Orthodox is doing better. I actually talked with
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: my priest father Jeremy, and he said that there's like
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: there are people pushing for female deacons. You know, deacons
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: are like they're not priests, but they're but they like
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: help in the service. And he was like, but I
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: don't think that's a good idea, And I was like,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: oh no, it's not gonna stop. Like he had to
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: like tell them because in the in in Orthodox services,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: the women have to like cover their heads in like
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: a scarf right like ahead, you know, it's like a
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: head covering. And Lindsay doesn't have problem doing that, but
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: the other women were like they were starting to get feisty,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: and he was like, well, this is what we do.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: And there were standards on the men too. It wasn't
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: like a one way thing, right, But but yeah, I
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: mean like it's already been like Protestant churches have already
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: been paused by this, and I think that the the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: capitals or those are looking at.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: That I explain the logic of this taking it all
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: out of the religious all. Right, men evolved alongside women. Right,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Women can totally shut shut men down and shut them
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: out and kick them out with their social power because
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: they are the first experience of belonging of every human being.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: They set down the emotional habits that create culture. Right,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: you don't need female deacons because you have mothers. Right,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: there has to be some place where men get unique
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: authority or masculinity as a part of your toolkit as
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: a community, as a society disappears. Right, This is all
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: because women are powerful enough socially to absolutely destroy all
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: of men standing. So you have to do this, ladies,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: or you lose masculinity. And we are witnessing what happens
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: when masculinity recedes from society in the West, when we
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: are no longer capable of using that toolkit. No, and
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: it's not. You can look at it top down, but
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: the top down thing is also it's not necessarily masculine either.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: You can't make top down fixes all the time. You
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: can't always look to a strong man to make things
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: better for you. You have to realize that the true purpose
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: of the true need where's masculinity is needed is the local,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: is the community, is the family, right, you need it
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: on this level and you need to respect it. And
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: that's why you need deacons to be male. Okay, So
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: men have a voice, men have a place where they
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: get moral recognition that what they say matters and should
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: be listened to. That's it. And it's only because get this,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: we evolve to have two different types of human Okay,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: we involved male humans and we evolved female humans. And
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I guess you can argue that there's some you know,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: a small amount in between. Let's not deal with that.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: The most part, male and female. Each of these has
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: a particular approach to how they deal with the world
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: around them. Do you think that men would have persisted
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: that generation after generation after generation if their way of
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: dealing with the world wasn't important to human survival. No,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: So what you do when you don't give men moral authority,
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: unique moral authority to as men as you push that
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: out of your society and then eventually your society collapses,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: which is why we don't have a civilization that doesn't
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: invest a unique place, a unique place for men to
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: have moral authority. And you don't need that for women
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: because again, women get moral authority from being mothers, from
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: being that first experience of human belonging and basically God
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: to an infant. All right, that's how it works. You
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: want to work against that, well, congratulations, you're going to
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: inherit a pile of rubble. All right.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: So you should read the writings of Apostle Paul. They're
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: considered the most controversial of all of the books. And
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: the stuff that Paul wrote about women is it's pretty
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: it's pretty awesome. And Paul Elam has been reading Paul
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: a lot, let's just put it that way, and he
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: uses him as like is to make his cases.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: But anyway, the other thing is I want to I
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: want to compound on your point.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Sorry for no, it's okay.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: I'll compound on your point about manifestel She doesn't even
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: know about the problems with boys in extremist Mormon communities.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I guarantee it.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: And it's because it's not in the reality show. It's
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: not in the like the reality show itself is. It's
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: like you said in the past about the way that
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: stories are told reality show. This reality show, as most
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: reality shows are done, they are from the female perspective
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: for the women that are watching, so they're going to
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: exclude the man. Like there's an anecdote in the show
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: where and I skipped past that scene because I don't
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: think it was very important, except you know, Manifestel is
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: trying to make she's using it to like make her
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: point that men use religion to control women. But it
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: was basically a scene where the wife that this Mormon
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: wife goes to an event because she's a photographer and
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: she doesn't realize or know that it turns out to
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: be like a Chippendale's thing, and she's mortified and she
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: leaves early because she doesn't want to be around that,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: and her husband is like, you know, he went with
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: her on the trip to this to do this job,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: but he wasn't there, and he's like texting her asking
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: her what's going on, and manifestel is basically saying, like
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: this this man, you know, he's like a medical students
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: or something like he's going to medical school, so he's
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: going to be a doctor. But this man is like
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: in this girl's business, and that's a problem, right, So
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: but I mean, ultimately they were both faithful to each other,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: like in terms of like she told him like this
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: is what happened, and he's like very understanding. But that's
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: the framing is that he shouldn't be there in the.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: First No, when you make a commitment, a sexual commitment
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: to another human being, they get to be up in
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: your business, Like what are you putting on offer, Manifestel.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: You can pay my bills and change my diapers and
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: wipe my shitty ass and and you can breathe for
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: me and pissed for me, but you you don't get
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: to tell me who I fuck. Like you're you're not
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: in a relationship, You're just on a life support system.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Okay, all right, Well let's so I jumped
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: ahead to UH. I believe that this point she's going
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: to talk about the critique of how religion UH is
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: used to control women's behavior. So let's let's play.
• 52:29
  Speaker 6: This the grammar now because she respects her own values
• 52:33
  Speaker 6: and her husband and would never put herself in that situation.
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: The fact we are even having this conversation is sad,
• 52:38
  Speaker 6: especially after everything with the temple.
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: Okay, So basically he brings up the temple, right, like
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: that's very important, that's key to this whole class he brings.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: No, they don't show it in the show, but this woman.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: So basically this show. There's a bunch of girls on
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: TikTok talking about this show and they're applying the feminist
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: lens to it. Again, they applying a feminist lens to
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: a show that's applied a feminist lens already, and they're
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: responding to that, you know, like it's what I'm what
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I'm one thing I'm realizing about media. I'm obviously it's
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: it's all feminists anyway. But this is the reason why
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: feminists reference it all the time, and and because what
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: they do is they take it to another level of oppression.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: So you know, they'll talk about like, I don't know,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: like the Little Mermaid, right, the Little Mermaid. If you
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: watch The Little Mermaid, it was feminist already, like it
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: was you know, it was like my Daddy's telling me
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: what to do, and I'm gonna do what I want
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: to do, and you know, and and it was all
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: of that was already there. But what feminists today do
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: is they watch that and they apply their feminist lens
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: to that which was already feminists and then they take
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: it further. And that's why things have. Yeah, they're like, well,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: that one was really regressive and patriarchal. Like they will
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: talk about how problematic old, you know, nineties Disney movies were,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: and if you look at them, they're all progressive for
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: the time, and you just take it to another level. Yeah,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: so that's kind of what's happening here.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: It's eternal search for more oppression. Yeah, every time you
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: recognize an oppression, you have to one up yourself, like
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: like those scotsmen talking about I walked, I walked to
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: school both ways and driving snow uphill both ways. You know,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: it's like every generation has to up there the perception
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: of oppression. So this is something that I noticed like
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: twenty years ago, and I pointed out, I said, you
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: know that, how I guess the sixties are now the
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: time the great time of the greatest amount of female oppression.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Soon it's going to be the early two thousands. That's
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: the time of the greatest amount of female oppression, because
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: it always moves to about one generation before the current
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: generation is the greatest time of the greatest amount of
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: female oppression, you know, except for the fifties, which.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: I always say that way. It's that way. It's always
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: right around the corner.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: The fifties.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Weird, we're not out of the woods yet.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: But the fifties seems to be sort of like almost
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: the platonic ideal of female oppression, which I've always found funny.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, why why the fifties, you know, I
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: mean just specifically the fifties. I mean, you don't go
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: to the forties, wouldn't that be more No, of course,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: that's World War Two where millions of men were dying.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Well what about the thirties, Oh, that was the depression
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: when millions of men were out of work and starving
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: on the streets. Oh what about the twenties. Well, sometimes,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: you know, that was the Roaring twenties. It's hard to
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: say that that was the time of greatest depression because
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: more women were in in the university than men. I
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: think in the twenties what about the tens Oh, World
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: War One, one of the worst wars to die in ever, like,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: And I notice how it's almost like feminists were looking
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: through the night the twentieth century and they're like, well,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: not the first decade, that's a little rough for men.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: In the second decade, this world one pretty rough for men.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: It's the third decade. It's hard to say that the
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Flapper era was the height of patriarchy. The third DECADEO,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: men were dying in the streets. I can't really choose that.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: That doesn't make sense. Oh, the fourth decade and men
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: dying in war again, and then the first decade that
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: men weren't dying in a depression and out of work
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: in a depression or dying in a war. The feminists
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: latch onto the first time that men weren't dying to
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: the point where demographics were being shifted. The feminists say, oh,
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: that's the decade. That's the decade. That's the decade of
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: the greatest amount of male oppression of women. And you
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: really should ask yourself, why not any decade before it,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: because it was so obviously awful for men every decade
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: prior to the fifties, the fifties was the first decade
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: that there wasn't a significant about men dying for economic
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: period between warsa it was a period between wars. And
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: the feminists hate it, like you does not say something.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, even then there was the Korean War, but
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: you know, and some other little skirmishes here and there.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it was basically a time that
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: of relative peace, I suppose.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: And where men weren't dying wholesale.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, a stricking decade.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Of the twentieth century and men weren't like dying in
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: their millions and then to maintain society, to sacrifice for society,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: and feminists are like, oh my god, look at that.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Men are no longer sacrificing their lives for society. They're
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: so privileged they don't even get men don't even get
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: a break. I mean, if only we hadn't had like
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: a Third World War in the fifties, then feminists would
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: have jumped over that decade too. God damn.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: All right, Uh, let's listen to more the way.
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: To control gens behavior, like think about like the people
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: in the Temple of Things. And he also tries to
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: turn her into a pigmy by comparing her to another woman,
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: like this other woman doesn't behave like you do. She
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: knows better than to go to Chippendale show as a
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: married Mormon woman. Like those two things, right, But I
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: wanted to hone in on the use of the temple,
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: the religion, and the community, specifically the religious community to
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: women's behavior.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's the point. You're you're you are pointing this
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: out as a flaw. It is a feature. Okay, mm hmm.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: This is supposed to develop moral discipline and dignity and
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: personal discipline so that you don't do things to fuck
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: your life up, or to fuck other people's lives up,
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: or to engage in toxic envy. This she's pointing to this.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: You're saying, oh, look, these people apply a stern standards
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: to women. Yeah, they probably also have female friendships, which
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: is something that I doubt, you know, manifestal. Do you
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: really think that your friends would help you out if
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: you didn't have clout? I doubt it. So I mean
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: it's like this is, yes, yes, there are buying an
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: external standard. You don't think that men are also not
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: for not expected to live up to this external.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: You're not You're not supposed to do that, and women
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be held to any standard that. I mean, women
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: should be denied nothing, men should be denied everything.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: The other thing is that why is this being made public?
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: Like this is actually if you have a conflict with
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: your partner, why is this being aired on broad being
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: broadcast on a network Reality TV?
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's reality TV, which means it isn't real.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't even do that.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Like this is another thing, like like I'm trying to
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: look at this, like how this is affecting how stuff
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: like this affects the female psyche. Okay, so women love
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: the tea, they they like these that's kind of and
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: and I think there was like a use for that, right,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: Like if you lived in a community and you want
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: to make sure that everybody was like working together to
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: like make the community thrive and keep it safe and
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: protect the children and make sure that no one's gonna
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: go rogue or whatever. And so women they as as
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: you know, like the matriarchs of their you know, their
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: or whatever, like the women in the community would sort
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: of watch each other and talk to each other and
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: and talk and and it. But the the problem is
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: is that it could turn into something toxic like gossip,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: and then you get like this, you know, reputation destruction
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: and mean girl behavior. But if you it's it's just
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: like any other force, right, if it's used for good,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: if it's harnessed the right way, then there's clearly a
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: positive aspect to it, you know. And so, uh what
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: women are drawn to this kind of stuff. They love gossip, okay,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: and deny it, no, I know they That's what I'm saying,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that's necessarily bad because again,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: it has a use if you have some one in
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: your community that is, you know, like I don't know,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: engaging in secretly bad behavior or what they're trying to
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: keep her secret, and other people, like women, learn about it.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: They can share it with each other and say, like,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: you know, this person is doing is up to this
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: thing or whatever. That's why, Like there's a meme. I
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: think it's like a really funny meme. It's like Russian surveillance.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: It's called Russian surveillance system and it's a bunch of
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: old women like on balconies and porches. But I mean, like,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, like that there is something
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: to that, and it'd be involved with the community. They
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: would call out kids that were maybe like skipping school
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: or up to no good or whatever. There was like
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: a reason for it, you know, people maybe looking for
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: suspicious behavior. They'd be looking for whatever it is, right
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: And but like, the reason why women are into these
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: kinds of shows is because it is sort of tapping
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: into that that that thing that women are into, which
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: is essentially gossip, tea whatever. I forgot where I was
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: going with that, but I was just I was just
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: saying that there is a I'm trying to get into
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: the women's psyche, trying to talk about what it is
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: that motivates them. I think it's that and that is
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: a method of control. But Manifestel is trying to put
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: it on the men. But it's really going to be
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: the women that do that.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're the ones that this is going to be
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: the women that are monitoring each other's behavior. And again,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: like I honestly, if I remember when we went to
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: the first International Conference for Men's Issues, we were twenty fourteen,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: like myself and a bunch of other women who are
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: involved in men's issues advocacy were being tailed by some
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: group from Vice, like camera crew from Vice and they
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: sat us down and they interviewed us, and they asked
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: me a question like, oh, has your men's rights advocacy
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: improved your sex? Like, and I'm like, sex, I'm not
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: shiitting you, I am not. I looked at them and
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: I said, that's none of your business. Vice, it's a
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: completely question. It's a completely inappropriate question. That is none
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: of your business. And I remember I was there with
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: a younger woman called Jess and she she's no longer.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: I think she she had a kid, and you know
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: that that became more of her focus, which is understandable.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: It's the same thing I think that and and prim
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: and and she was like looking at me almost like
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: she's gonna maybe answer, but then I was like, no, no,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: we don't know. You don't want to answer that. That's
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: not appropriate. And it's like that's something that women would
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: do for each other in the context.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Would protect they would they.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Would look out for each other and say hey, this
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: is not appropriate, like this is personal, this is private.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: These people aren't interested in your well being. They want
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: to turn you into a salacious story. You know, you
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: don't get involved in that, like just just and you know,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: like the older and wiser woman would would would look
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: out for the younger women, not just in terms of
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: them behaving in destructive ways, but also in maybe getting
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: sucked into destructive things. Like there's I was reading Warren
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Warren Peace and there's I think it's Madame Black Blovatsky
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: or something, and she actually goes out of her way
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: to prevent the female female character from utterly destroying her
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: life by being seduced by this blackuerd and and she
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: like she had to, she had to significantly go out
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: of her way to protect her and against the girls,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: like she like the girl is angry, and I'm sure
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: manifest El be like, oh, don't let that old bitch
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: get up in your business. Go go suck this man
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: who's going to take your virginity, take your money, and
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: then fuck off, and then you are going to be
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: a ruined woman. Yeah, they just just do.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's exactly right. Like this is why in
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: soap operas, for example, everyone is doing really like bad things,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: like they're obviously immoral characters like running throughout doing ridiculously
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: like messed up social stuff with each other, and the
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: women that watch, that's what they're keying in on because
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: they're like, and they'll talk to their friends about like
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: the characters and the show and the stuff they did.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: They're making the same kind of they're creating their the
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: same kinds of like you know, social moral hierarchies in
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: these fictional scenarios that they would with real people. And
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: and there is a value to it. I'm not saying
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: it's just bad or it's just useless, but it is.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: It can be like in it can be sort of
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: you know, aimed in the wrong direction or used to
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: distract or whatever.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: So well, the point is that these social standards don't
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: exist just to hurt women. Yeah, they are in fact
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: rules in order for women to navigate the point in
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: your life when you're the stupidest and most hormonally driven.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: The older women they've been through that, they've experienced that,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: and they know the stupid choices you make when when
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: you're in that situation, and they will advise you they don't, Yeah,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: don't reveal details of your sex life device there be dragons,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: you know, like stuff like that. And then the other
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: thing I wanted to point out is there's a commentator
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: in Katie and she says female friendships, that's a hard one.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: I wish I had some. Yeah, well, here's the problem.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: In order for women to have strong, supportive friendships with
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: each other, there needs to be external standards, right. They
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: need to have these external standards. They need to have
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: these community controls. They need to learn to overcome their jealousy,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: their envy, and these kind of destructive impulses and the
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: stupidity of youth in order to develop these things. You
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: look in traditional cultures, women support each other and they
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: are happy at each other's successes. You know, they celebrate
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: each other's successes. That's because they're living up to these
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: external standards of dignity and discipline and being good friends.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: What I've noticed is that whatever we allow women to
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: do to men, eventually they do to other women, which
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: is destructive to their relationships with other women. So it's like, yeah,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: you want female friendships back, we have to start going
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: back or at least reconsidering external standards for women that
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: they learn to control the negatives of female behavior. And yeah,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: there are negatives to female behavior. I don't like saying
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: that men masculinity or feminine is toxic, but there are
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: negatives to both. And we still have a mythology and
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: expectations that men overcome the negatives of their behavior. But
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: where's that for women? It's the infinite license to self destruction? Okay,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: all right, let's uh.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: How much have because I well, I know we're getting
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: close to the end here, or at least, like, let's
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: play the rest of this and then I'll jump to
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: her inclusions, or we could jump to we can jump
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: ahead actually to deconstruction of Biblical patriarchy twenty seven eleven.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: So we'll go to like right hearings, All right, this
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: is again I believe doctor Beth Allison Bass is a
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: feminist that wrote about this. So take that as it is.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: And yes, God was a woman and now God is
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: a man, and at the end of the day, God
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: still wouldn't want this for us.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, So she literally says God was a woman. I
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: mean that just I don't know if that just tells
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: you everything. But let's keep going.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: Sure, Bar rights the biblical explanation for the birth of patriarchy.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: The first human sin built the first human power hierarchy,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: And apparently among historians, everyone already knew that patriarchy was
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: a result of the fall, and according to Barr, the
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: patriarchy that continues to appear in biblical text is a
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: mere accommodation to the reality of the times and culture.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: It is not a reflection of the divine ideal for humanity.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: Patriarchy is created by people not ordained by God before
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: the fall. Both Adam and Eve submitted to God's authority.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: After the fall because of sin, women would now turn
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: first to their husbands, and their husbands in the place
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: of God would.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: Why do you fight this so much?
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: Really, what is wrong with just listening to men and
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: occasionally doing what they say?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: Like, what is wrong with that? What do you think
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: you're submitting to now? And the other thing is that
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: when you're empower, ladies, are you going to step up
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: and take care of men?
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: And if you don't, what do you think happens to
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: a culture in which the people in power don't give
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: a crap about half the population. It craters, it dies. Yeah,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: sure you can take authority, ladies, But with that authority
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: is the expectation of protecting and providing for men. Do
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: you want that? And maybe you should be sacrificing for men,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: like they say Christ's sacrifice for the church that men
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: in the so called patriarchal system have to sacrifice for
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: women like Christ sacrifice for the church. Maybe you need
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: to take that role. Are you prepared? Are you prepared?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Other wise all your construction constructing is a disaster.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: There was never a situation where men just had power.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: There was always the expectation of sacrifice in conjunction with
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: the power. And I would argue it was the power
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: that that justified the sacrifice. So people would say, well, men,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: you're in power, therefore you are obligated to sacrifice. And
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: often that power really wasn't very functional at all, right,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: because of women's social power. Right, So I mean, sure, manifestel,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: you want to be in charge. Are you gonna sacrifice
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: for men? Are you gonna protect and provide for men? No,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: you're not. You're just gonna be a worthless tyrant.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna let her finish this and then I'll.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 4: Say something, rule over them.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna go back. So she's basically using this
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: to make the claim let me just finish this.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: Because of sin, women would now turn first to their husbands,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: and their husbands in the place of God would rule
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: over them.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: All right. The patriarchy that continues to appear in Biblical
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: text is a mere accommodation to the reality of the
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: times and culture. It is not a reflection of the
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: divine ideal for humanity. That is a lie. Now, of course,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: you can like construct your particular situation however you like,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: but just don't misrepresent what the Biblical text says. So like,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: if you don't want to live in a patriarchal system,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: whatever you do, you okay, but just don't lie to
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: me about what it says. Patriarchy is created by people
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: not ordained by God before the fall. Both Adam and
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Eves submitted to God's authority. After the fall because of sin,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: women would now turn first to their husbands, and their
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: husbands in the place of God would rule over them. Okay,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: that's not wrong. That's that's wrong for a number of reasons.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: Number one, God made Eve from Adam's rib, essentially from
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: his side, is how it's described as his partner. But
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: she is supposed to, like, you know, help him. Adam
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: is the leader in that situation. But the there is
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: a Okay, I know that not everyone here is religious,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: so I'm not trying to feed you a line to
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: convince you of anything, but I'm saying manifestel and the
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: person who wrote this is lying about what it says. Okay,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: So the natural order according to Christianity is God then Christ.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: This is after you know, uh, Jesus came, then man,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: then woman, then children. Okay, but in the in the
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: time of the garden, there was no Jesus. Obviously, Eve
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: was supposed to essentially serve Adam. Now when I say that,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: I don't mean as a slave that I mean like
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: she's a helpmate. And in fact, and we talked about
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: this on the show before, Eve is a little bit
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: or she supposed to be kind of a let's say,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: how would I put it adversarial helpmate? Does that make sense?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: Like she would like contend or challenge Adam, But he
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: ultimately was the guy responsible for Eve. And so when
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: we get to the point of the fall, Adam and
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Eve both sin, but their sins are different. So what
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: is Eve's sin? Does anyone? I mean, like I'll just
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: you know, what do you think, Alison? What's Eve's sin
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: in the Garden of Eden?
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: Pride? Well, essentially listening to the snake, which is the serpent,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: which is you could say it's pride because the serpent
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: said what to Eve? He said, if you eat from
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: the tree of knowledge, you will be like God. So
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: it was essentially he tricked her into thinking, Hey, He
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: basically said, look, why would you want to just be
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: a woman like working for this dude? Why don't you
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: eat from the tree of knowledge? And then you'll be
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: like God. You'll be better than Adam, you'll be above everything, right,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: And so Eve was like, yeah, I'm gonna do that.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: And her sin was doing that was listening to the
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: serpent and eating of the fruit of knowledge or the
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: tree of knowledge. What's adam sin, Well, adam sin is
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: that he did not take responsibility when God confronted them.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Adam passed the buck to Eve and said, oh no,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: she she made me do it. So it was a
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: couple things too. He didn't when she said, hey, you
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: want to eat from this fruit, it's from the tree
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: of knowledge. I ate it and we didn't die because
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: God said if you eat the tree of knowledge, you
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: will die, right, And Adam was like, Okay, I'll do it,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: and that was his mistake. So they both made mistakes,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: and they both failed to take responsibility, and God threw
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: them out of the Garden of Eden, and that is
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: a sense the way that it's showing what happens when
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: you don't follow the natural order, as as said by God.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: What she is saying here is that Adam being the
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: leader of Eve is completely constructed and it's not really
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: part of the message. And it's because she doesn't want
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: that to be the case. Right, So it's like, like
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: I said, Manifestelvi just live her life the way she
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: wants to, but she chooses to come after the Bible
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: and try to like alter this narrative. And look, I'm
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: not saying I'm an expert in this at all. I'm
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: just saying what I remember about the story and what
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: I remember about the meaning you know, of the fall
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: and the sin, the original sin that Adam and Eve committed.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: And by the way, when Christ came, he basically redeemed
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: both of them. Okay, he redeemed like Mary redeemed Eve
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: and Christ redeemed Adam at the resurrection. But that's that's
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: a separate thing.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: So okay, I just want to point something out now.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: This establishes a hierarchy of authority, but there's another hierarchy
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: of sacrifice. And I think that I don't even know
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: if children rank on the hierarchy of sacrifice. But Christ's
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: sacrifices for everybody. Men sacrifice for women. Maybe women sacrifice
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: for kids, I guess not. I don't know.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe that, yeah, like women would sacrifice for children, sure, yeah,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: there will be an expectation, but like men would sacrifice
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: for children too. It's like the higher up you are,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: the more you're expected to sacrifice. So Christ sacrifice for everyone.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, So the hierarchy based on sacrifice. That's the
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: point that I wanted to make. You get your authority
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: through sacrifice. You understand that. And I'm just I was
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: just thinking, like what kind of world would Manifest Dell
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: create if she was in charge like everybody, she would
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: have the authority and she would make everyone sacrifice for her.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: And could you imagine a world full of women like
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: manifestel Like it would be a disaster because all the
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: only reason they would have the authority and the only
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: thing they would use it for is to make other
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: people sacrifice for them. And that's the problem. Like literally,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: this is the key hole that women need to understand.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: You get authority through sacrifice, right, That's where it comes from,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: especially with human beings, and especially with Christianity, the more
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: authority you have, where does it come from? From your sacrifice?
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: That's it. It doesn't come from somewhere else. It comes
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: from your sacrifice, your willingness to sacrifice for others. So
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: if you want to have the authority of men, you
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: have to be prepared to sacrifice for men, right. You
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: have to be willing to say, men go first. I
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: have this power. I'm going to use it to help men.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to use it to give them a voice.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: I'm going to use it to protect them in whatever
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: way I can. Maybe it won't look like the way
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: men protect women. Men protect women physically, but that doesn't
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: mean men don't need their own type of protection, their
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: own type of social protection, because women like Manifestel can
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: destroy men's the perception of men as being legitimate parts
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: of a culture, of a society, of a community. That's
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: what these women do. Okay, by the way, is my
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: sound okay? Okay? Good? Because I changed this. Actually I
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: moved the I've been having some fun with my microphone.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: I moved my microphone closer to me, so I was
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: worried that it might be too loud, But you know,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: if it's good, then it's good. But that's my point authority.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: Sacrifice equals authority. Sacrifice equals authority, and she doesn't understand that.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: And all the women who want a authority in the
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: context of the Christian tradition don't understand that. And I
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: think that's one reason why the Christian tradition is the
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: foundation for a world, world spanning civilization, because it made
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: that explicit connection between sacrifice and authority. You don't have
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: authority because you're the biggest dude on the block. You
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: have authority because you care enough about everyone to sacrifice
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: yourself in the most horrific way possible for their benefit.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: That is the model of masculinity in Christianity. It's an
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: incredibly powerful one and incredibly beneficial to everybody. And I
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: mean I'm not here as a Christian saying that. I'm
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: saying that as somebody looking out looking through the lens
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: of how societies construct themselves and organize themselves. It's a
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: very powerful tool. And all of the women who are saying,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: well we should have authority, Okay, first you sacrifice and
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: that is where your authority comes from. Otherwise what you
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: are creating is not authority, at least not in the
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: Christian tradition. Maybe it is in the tradition of all
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: of the of the incredibly brutal societies that have come before.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: But then then you're dealing with those rules, and guess
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: what those rules are. The biggest dude on the block
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: makes the rules.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: If you don't want to buy into the system that
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: sacrifice sanctifies authority, then you are buying into the system
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: that force does, and you are going to lose in
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: that system. Ladies, All right, yeah, all.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: Right, So I know that we've been going for a bit,
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: but I can like break down a couple of different
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: talking points he brings up, and you can tell me
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: if you want me to jump to one of those.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: So she talks about and that this is something I
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: kind of skipped but I forgot. I forgot about it,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: but I thought it was interesting, the fact that more
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: and more men are going into the church and more
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: and more women are leaving the church. And I think
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: that it's it is related to what's happening now. Like
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: I in my church, a lot of new converts. Most
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: of them have been men, especially young guys like in
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: their twenties, and of course Manifestel sees this as men
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: desperately trying to cling to power and authority over women
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: by going to the church, whereas women who are leaving
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: the church are seeking, like, you know, liberation, and that
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: is that that's her conception.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: Of this liberation, liberation in the system in which sacrifice
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: equals authority to what the system where money equals authority.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, authority.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't feel like being liberated from the system
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: or sacrifice equals authority. I think we should keep that.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe we should even see if there's an even more
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: pro human evolution of that that we could look into. Right, Actually,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: you know what, come to think of it, and the
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: corrupt intersectionality might be a corruption of that if you
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: think about it. Because oh yeah, they're saying that vulnerability
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: or pain or this kind of thing equals authority in
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: the intersectional pipe, in the intersectional system. Well, I mean
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: it's not true. It's actually conscious chosen sacrifice that equals authority,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: not just having been sacrificed. But you know, that's I
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: guess sort of like a philosophical discussion for another day.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: This is not Manifestel is not worthy of this one.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: No, and this Manifestell's claim. Somebody said that sounds like
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: an orthodox thing. It's not a Manifestell's claim is that
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: men are entering the church broadly, and most churches in
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: the United States are Protestant in like record numbers, and
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: women are leaving. I don't know if it's in record numbers,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: but if you think about it, it kind of lines
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: up with the political split that's happened with men and
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: women as well. Women have become like way way more
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: or leftist and therefore more atheistic and materialistic, whereas men
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: are like seeking. They're seeking meaning because they're not getting
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: it in the world because it's been taken from them.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: So that's one of the reasons why, for example, Jordan
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: Peterson was so big, because he was giving them a
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: sense of meaning and now they're you know, they're re
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: entering or they're entering the trap.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: Now Peterson is a little in his Grandpa on the
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: Internet phase.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I mean, I'm saying, but that was
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: what that's what that's what made him popular at the time.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: And we were always saying, why are you popular with men?
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: And it's like because he was giving men something that
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: no one else was. That's basically what it, or at
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: least not anyone else prominent was.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, but anyway, yeah yeah, So.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: The other thing is that she brings up is she
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: talks about, let me see the paradox of woman's spirituality
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: needing to control men's behavior through fear the exploration. I
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: think I'm on that part. Oh yeah, no, I read
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: that bit already. H analysis of how Paul's teaching Paul
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: apostle Paul have been misused to exclude women from leadership,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: highlighting the need for contextual interpretation.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: All bullshit, Like this is all basically the same refrain. Yeah,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: Christianity made sacrifice the source of authority. If you want authority,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: in the critic Christian tradition, then you need to sacrifice,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: which means women need to spend time thinking about how
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: they can protect and provide for men and that and
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: like again, that doesn't that's not like men. Women are
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: going to be, you know, becomes a xeno warrior princess
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: and protect and provide for men physically. But there are
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: ways and somebody in the in the you know, the
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: vertical chat is has suddenly become less like special for
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: some reason. Peter Houston says, I seem to remember women
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: in the Victorian age say that women protect men in
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: the social realm and men protect men and women in
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: the political realm. Yeah, that used to be the expectation
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: that women protect in the domestic sphere. So they would
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: protect men when they got sick, when they were injured,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: they would protect men's socially, they would protect men's role
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: with full awareness that women can destroy men's role. Let's
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: be frank, We've seen it. So I mean, this would
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: be the expectation of sacrifice for women. And I think
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: that that's a lot of the reason why women as
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: a group, like the the The opinion of women as
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: a group on the franchise was don't do it. People
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: don't realize that, but more women were against franchisement franchise
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: for women than men were, right, and they were the
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: biggest impediment to actually getting the franchise any quicker than
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: it was. There's a whole bunch of women who said
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: this is this is this is social destruction. And that's
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: why because it takes women away from well, first it
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: it takes a lot of the trust out of the
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: relationship between men and women, but it takes it starts
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: to divert women from recognizing their expectations of protecting and
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: providing for men towards a competition with men, which incidentally
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: men don't really they it's like a one sided competition.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: Women bring the competition, men just bring the confusion. So
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: they knew that this was something that was not a
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: good idea. So it's interesting, isn't it. Like like women
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: at one point were like, yeah, no, no, we shouldn't
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: have the vote, and then essentially the very small minority
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: of women who were for it pushed the issue. Male
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: legislators were much more ameniable to it than the majority
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: of women, so eventually it happened. And then afterwards, you know,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: the women who were like, oh, well, now that we
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: have the vote, we got to vote because otherwise the
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: crazies will be the only ones vote. So it's like,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: this is this is this is probably from that belief
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: that you know when and they explicitly said that, in fact,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: what Peter just said is from a response to the
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: suffrage by women is that they trust men to represent
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: them at the ballot box, as men should be able
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: to trust them to represent them in the home. So
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: it was it was always this kind of mutual expectation
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: of sacrifice and different spheres of authority. It was never
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: the way Manifestel is presenting it. And incidentally, if Manifestel
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: wants authority in the system, she has to sacrifice, because
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: sacrifice that sanctifies authority in the Christian system. And that
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: is my opinion outside looking in, what she actually wants
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: is authority in a system of force.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: Well, exactly, she's using like the Bible to try to
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: make the rhetorical case for giving women authority in church
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: without understanding that that like you know, like I said
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: it it the well, like you said, like it is
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: a byproduct of evolution itself. It's sort of like what
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: we were made to be, and that it's putting it
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: down on paper, you could say, or it's the other
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: way around, like I don't want to put the cart
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: before the horse, but I'm saying that there's a reason
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: why every religion because she does talk about this too,
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: not just Christianity, although she's targeting Christianity, but she relates
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: it to Islam, to Buddhism, to Hinduism. She all of
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: them are patriarchal and they're all like basically men using
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: these systems to control women. So it's not even just
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: limited to Christianity. She even extends it to Buddhism.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you at that point you have to ask, Okay,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: so patriarchy is every advanced society?
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: Could there be there a reason for that?
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: The reason for that manifest And maybe the reason is
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: because there are too many like you. You get authority
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: and you use it for yourself and you destroy everything
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: you get authority, You just go in, you kick everybody's
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: you kick sand in people's face, steal their lunch, shit
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: in their shit, in the shit in their poopery, and
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: you just throw your weight around, you know, because you
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: don't understand that sacrifice sanctifies authority like sacrifice. Authority comes
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: from sacrifice.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: So somebody in the vertical chat said something I wanted
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: to response to. Really queer Kaylee said, now men are
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: starting to hate women and think we are all the
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: same because of the destruction that's happened. It sucks. I
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: would tell I promise you, I don't think men hate women,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: even the ones who say they do don't. And all
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: you got to do is be nice to them. This
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: is one thing that women don't. They're lied to about
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: this by feminist, because when feminists claim that men live
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: to essentially be tyrants over women, they are saying that
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: women can't possibly tame that person or make them see
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: them at as you know, like they can't do anything
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: about it. And I'm telling you women have and they
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: still have tremendous power over men's emotional state, like like
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: look at it like this, Okay, somebody said this too
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: in the in the chat earlier, they said that there
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: was a Victorian saying that, you know, men's men operate
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: in the political realm, that's where their strengths are at,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: and women operate in the social realm. And I mean
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: that's obvious. Like we've talked about that. A lot has changed,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: and nothing's changed. It's still the same thing. Social media
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: is call of duty for women, and it's just a
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: matter of like how you use it, ladies. But the
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: thing I was going to point out is there is
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: a reason why football teams that have really great cheerleading
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: squads do better. It's not just because the football players
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: are you know, like have a great sense of sportsmanship
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: and teamwork and their athletes and all of that, but
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: because there are women that are that are essentially you know,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: trying to get them to do better. They're giving them buffs.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: You could say, if I'm gonna put it in video
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: game context, look at it like that. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: These women buff the men. Look at a World War
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: two when men would would have their girlfriend's photo in
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: their you know, in their pocket or whatever, or in
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: their airplane. It was essentially to inspire them. This is
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: what women do for men when they want to. And
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: a woman who has a man's back, you know, the
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: man can do like way more than he normally would.
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just saying it's a bonus. Another I
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: can give you another example. There's a guy. One of
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: the persons I've been trying to get on the show
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: for a long time, and for whatever reason, she's just
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: been too busy is Rachel Wilson. Rachel Wilson wrote this
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: book called Occult Feminism, which I read and I thought
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: it was pretty interesting and I wanted to talk to
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: her about it. She hasn't been able to make the
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: time to come on the show for whatever reason. But
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: I noticed that her husband, Andrew, and he goes on
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: all these podcasts and he debates people, and Rachel Wilson
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: is the biggest cheerleader of him that I've ever seen.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is why he's successful because she
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: is in his corner one hundred percent. And that's what
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: That's what it means to be like, you know, like
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: the the helpmate to someone, to a man, that's what
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: it means. She doesn't feel oppressed by him, right, she's
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: but she wants him to succeed because if he succeeds,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: they both succeed and their children succeed. Yeah, and that's
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: what that's what it is. So yeah, and I think, I.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: Mean, my personal approach is probably less traditional. I would
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: say that what women men, You're right, men don't hate women.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's in men to hate women. And
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: that's what's really unfair about this situation. And it really
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't like to me, it doesn't matter if men hate.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: What matters is if.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: Women they're just angry, and I think that it's understandable, right,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: but they're not hateful.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: Take responsibility if you want the authority, or even if
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: at this point we have to, because there's a whole
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: bunch of women who have demanded the authority, so women
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: now have it. So if we have this authority, then
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: look at it and ask yourself, what do men need
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: from us right now? And believe me that the hatred,
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: the anger dissipates as soon as a man is in
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: the presence of a woman who says, what do you need?
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: Like what can I do to make this better for you?
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: It's gone. It's all you need to do. And honestly,
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: you will find that you are never more yourself when
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: you stand up for another person, you know, and you
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: don't have to do it in an emasculating way like oh,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: I'm better than you, Just do it as in, this
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: is a fellow human being, This is a fellow citizen
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: who is in need of something that you can provide.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: And men have done. Men are deserving this. Look at
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: what they've construed tructed. Look at how they've protected and
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: provided for women. You know, it's just having their back
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: and doing and being grateful for it and doing what
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: you can to serve. And then there there's no hate.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: There's no further hatred as far as I can tell, right,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: there's no further hatred after that point.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: Like so, oh, I'm sorry, go.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: Ahead, Well no, I just and I think that you know,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: if you're if you're I think that there's a room
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: for flexibility as well, Like you can you can also
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: be somebody a woman who's more of a go getter
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: and and have a man who who supports you. That's fine,
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: Like whatever way it works, right, just as long as
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: you don't have contempt for each other at the end
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: of the day, and and it and it's and and
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: you are sacrificing for each other. And you don't expect
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: authority without sacrifice. You know that that I think that
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: is absolutely critical. And for too long we've had this
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: gigantic institutional group whispering poison into women's ears, entitlement, resentment,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: beliefs that are false, like Manifestel's belief that Mormon men
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: aren't held to a standard. Oh my god, are Mormon
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: mental held to a standard? And when you see the
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: extremism and Mormonism, it's men and boys who are thrown
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: out because they don't manage to live up to the standard.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: You know, that's what I would call the Mormon Church
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: out for, Like how much are you riding your men?
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: Like how much are you putting on their shoulders? If
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: your extremists are dumping their boys off in the middle
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: of nowhere because they listen to I don't know journey.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: Then what kind of pressures are you all putting on
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: your men and boys? And have you ever thought about that?
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: But you know, I mean they're a very successful community.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: They seem happy. That's the criticism I would have for them.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: But you know, they're they're certainly doing better than secular communities.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: So I think I think Mormon men are like they're
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: like hell to standards, like above that of tiger moms
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: holding their kids. I don't know, I think it's tough.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's tough. I'm the guy. Like, like I said,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: I knew a guy, uh come from a Mormon family,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: and like when I heard about his life, it sounded
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: like he was fucking James Bond. Like he was in
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: the Air Force and he did all this other stuff. Uh,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: he was a tailor and he was really good at it.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: He did these crazy things. And so yeah, I mean,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: I I believe it. But I'd like to leave you
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: guys with some of Apostle Paul's sayings because they're funny.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: That's why these are the things that he said that
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: really upsets feminists. In fact, Apostle Paul's supposedly the most
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: controversial of any of the people who wrote in the
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: New you know who who made what testimonies in the
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: New Testament? And I thought it was worth sharing because
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: I think you might get a truck a lot of it. Maybe.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: So here is First Corinthians eleven three says, but I
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: want you to realize that the head of every man
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: is Christ, and the head of the woman is Man,
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: and the head of Christ is God. So he's basically
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: laying out, like what I said, that Christians believe the
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: natural order is again, you know, feel about it whatever
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: you like. Then there's this one, which is all really
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: pisses off feminists too. Why submit yourselves to your own
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: husbands as you do to the Lord, for the husband
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: is the head of the wife. As Christ is ahead
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: of the Church, his body, of which he is the savior.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: Now as the church submits to Christ. Also, so also
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Okay, Then
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: there's this one. Women should remain silent in the churches.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: as the law says, if they want to inquire about something,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: they should ask their own husbands at home, for it
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: church First Corinthians fourteen thirty four to thirty five. Well,
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: and what I learned about this too is that this
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: was shortly after the church began, like the Christian Church started,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: and women were kind of like in a sense liberated already,
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: like they had recently been sort of liberated from whatever
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: came before, according to some like Rome, And they became
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: really loud and vocal in church, like they were distracting
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: from the services because all of a sudden they were
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: liberated and it was time, you know, to get their
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: voices heard. And that's why Apostle Paul was like, can
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: you ladies please shut up while we're doing this. And
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: then the last one is a woman should learn in
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: to teach or to assume authority over a man. She
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: must be quiet, For Adam was formed first, then Eve,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: and Adam was not the one deceived. It was the
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: will be saved through childbearing if continue in faith, love, holiness,
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: and with propriety. So yeah, definitely the most controversial of
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: anybody but I think it's funny.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, so well, what I would argue again is that
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: the whole concept of this is simply for women to
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: step aside with their social power and allow men to
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: develop their skills and abilities that you know, they evolved
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: over millions of years to enhance the system. And again, this, this,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: this authority, and this expectation that men be able to speak,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: doesn't come without a corresponding expectation of sacrifice. So if
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: women want to have this role of authority, then they
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: have to learn to sacrifice first. Sorry about the moaning
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: and crying. My god, he's been sitting quietly, but then
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: he stops sitting quietly.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: I got a rumble rant, and then I guess we
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: can wrap it up. So Nova Fan twenty one gave
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: us a dollar and says, whenever I hear someone claiming
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: men are hating women, all I'm hearing is men are
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: holding women accountable because women still refuse to do that themselves.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that, Nova Fan. Yeah, it's hard, like
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: when you're not accustomed to criticism. Criticism sounds like hatred.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: But I don't think that's I don't think that's true.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: So I did notice another comment that someone said that
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: men are sorry, women want to continue to choose to
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: be secondary because being primary requires sacrifice. Let's face it. Okay,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: what the hecker you do? Oh you're squishing your ball?
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: You know it requires sacri.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: Sorry sor right? Just okay, it.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: Requires sacrifice to be primary, right, And they don't want
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: to do that, so they want to be regarded by
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: as primary, but continue to just exist in a secondary capacity. Well,
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: that doesn't work. It's not functional. Yeah, you can't do that.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: It's not fair. All right. The doggo is a little
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: bit verklemped. Shall we say so? Can we?
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah?
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, there we go then all right? So oh all right,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: So if you enjoy this show and you'd like to
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: support the show, you can do so at feed the
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: Badger dot com slash support. Okay, you just.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: Can't get through this, like you just get distracted, way
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: too easy.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, well he's very distracting. It's it's hard. He's like
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: he knows he knows how to hit my buttons. He's okay,
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: what all right? So if you want to support this show,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: please go to feed the Badger dot com slash support
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: and put a few shekels in the hat. Every bit
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: helps definitely, like I really appreciate of course the large
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: supporters really help us get our goal at the end
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: of the month. But don't think if it's if you're
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: putting in five dollars, ten dollars, doesn't it really does.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate it, especially in times like these. So
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: feed the Badger dot com slash support and if you
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: want to send us a message in a tip, feed
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: the Badger dot com slash just the tip. And yeah,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: all right, so back to you Brian.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, if you guys like this video, please
• 1:43:19
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• 1:43:22
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• 1:43:24
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• 1:43:26
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• 1:43:28
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• 1:43:31
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• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: had to bounce around because it's like all of her
• 1:43:36
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• 1:43:41
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• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: so much for coming on today's episode of Maintaining Frame.
• 1:43:47
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• 1:43:54
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• 1:43:57
  Speaker 7: Guys, Men's Right activists are machine dude, Okay, they are
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 7: literal machines.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: They are talking point machines.
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 7: They are impossible to fucking deal with, especially if you
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 7: have like, especially if you have like a couple of
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 7: dudes who have good memory.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: On top of that, too, holy shit, you're fucked