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Robert Woodson and Joshua Mitchell...Trump May Be the First Post-Racial President · Gil I Am

0:05
Speaker 1: Race is very emotional issue with Black America, and it
0:09
Speaker 1: has been manipulated for decades by people who use it
0:13
Speaker 1: to direct Blacks to vote in a certain way.
0:17
Speaker 2: In this episode, I sit down with Bob Woodson and
0:19
Speaker 2: Joshua Mitchell. Bob Woodson is a civil rights leader, author,
0:23
Speaker 2: and founder and president of the Whitston Center. Joshua Mitchell
0:26
Speaker 2: is a professor of political theory at Georgetown University.
0:30
Speaker 1: The partisan debate on race is driven by guilty whites
0:34
Speaker 1: who are seeking absolutions from crimes they never committed, and
0:37
Speaker 1: entitled blacks who are seeking absolution from mentjustices they never suffered.
0:42
Speaker 2: What does Trump's election victory mean for Black America? Will
0:46
Speaker 2: Trump be the first post racial president? And how can
0:50
Speaker 2: America revitalize its ailing communities?
0:53
Speaker 3: We have levels of despair and depression because the state
0:56
Speaker 3: has become this administrative behemoth making citizens competence impossible. We've
1:02
Speaker 3: got this invitation to return to the founder's vision where
1:05
Speaker 3: we have citizen competence. The only way you can have
1:08
Speaker 3: small government is if you have massive citizen competence.
1:12
Speaker 2: This is American thought leaders and I am Yanya Kellik,
1:17
Speaker 2: Bob Woodson, josh Mitchell such a pleasure to have you
1:20
Speaker 2: on American thought.
1:20
Speaker 4: Leaders used to be here, glad to be here.
1:24
Speaker 2: So, Bob, as someone who is deep in the civil
1:28
Speaker 2: rights movement and being a self proclaimed radical pragmatist, what
1:33
Speaker 2: happened with the black vote this time around?
1:36
Speaker 1: I think what your witnesses liberation. I think race is
1:42
Speaker 1: very emotional issue with Black America, and it can be
1:46
Speaker 1: very easily manipulated, and it has been manipulated for decades
1:50
Speaker 1: by people who use it to direct Blacks to vote
1:56
Speaker 1: in a certain way. But I think over the time
2:01
Speaker 1: it's matured to the point where people are more concerned
2:05
Speaker 1: about their public, personal safety and how much money they
2:10
Speaker 1: have in their pockets over what someone's races. And so
2:15
Speaker 1: I think you saw maturity there. They became radical pragmatists
2:22
Speaker 1: and refuse to allow race to dominate their decisions.
2:27
Speaker 2: Fascinating. So are we seeing a sort of post racial
2:31
Speaker 2: movement here, Josh Well, I.
2:34
Speaker 3: Would add to it, Bob is saying Black America has
2:40
Speaker 3: been to put the matter baldly the plaything of the
2:43
Speaker 3: state for a very very long time. And I think
2:46
Speaker 3: since the nineteen sixties, the expectation would be the Democratic
2:50
Speaker 3: Party would deliver, and since identity politics came to the fore.
2:55
Speaker 3: The idea the Democratic Party had, I think, was that
2:59
Speaker 3: there would be this vast alliance of people of color
3:02
Speaker 3: who would be known as the innocent victims, and that
3:05
Speaker 3: this political coalition would come to predominate. But as Bob said, Americans,
3:11
Speaker 3: black and white, everyone, are pre eminently practical people, and
3:15
Speaker 3: they I think a large number of so called people
3:18
Speaker 3: of color woke up and realized it won't do simply
3:22
Speaker 3: to take the identity politics label, the innocent victimhood label,
3:27
Speaker 3: when in fact their bank accounts are faltering when they
3:30
Speaker 3: don't have security. So I think we've reached a cultural
3:33
Speaker 3: moment where where identity politics is, at least for the moment, vanquished,
3:38
Speaker 3: and we have a whole new opportunity here.
3:41
Speaker 1: In one sense, black said have lived in the Banana
3:43
Speaker 1: Republic for the last fifty years. I mean all of
3:47
Speaker 1: the cities where there's major decline that have occurred over
3:50
Speaker 1: the last fifty years have all been run by liberal
3:52
Speaker 1: democratic administrations. So if partisan politics alone were the source
4:00
Speaker 1: of salvation, the question is why have we witnessing all
4:05
Speaker 1: of this decline over the past fifty years.
4:08
Speaker 4: I was born during the depression.
4:11
Speaker 1: In the low income black neighborhood in South Philadelphia. There
4:16
Speaker 1: were no middle class people there, but ninety six percent
4:19
Speaker 1: of our households had a man and a woman raising children.
4:22
Speaker 1: Elderly people could walk safely without fear of being assaulted
4:25
Speaker 1: by their grandchildren. Never heard of gunfire. Children were not
4:30
Speaker 1: shot in their cribs.
4:31
Speaker 4: It was unheard of. We have the highest marriage.
4:35
Speaker 1: Rate of any group in society, even though the jury segregation.
4:42
Speaker 4: Was a rule.
4:44
Speaker 1: So one can look at the circumstance of low income
4:49
Speaker 1: blacks and ask yourself, how were we able to achieve
4:53
Speaker 1: in the face of these circumstances When the great promise
4:57
Speaker 1: of the civil rights movement and when in political anticipation
5:01
Speaker 1: was if you vote for us, these conditions will improve.
5:06
Speaker 1: And I think now the Blacks are waking up to
5:09
Speaker 1: that reality and beginning to bec migrate towards becoming swing voters.
5:17
Speaker 1: I don't think they're moving to become Republicans. I think
5:20
Speaker 1: they're moving more towards becoming swing voters.
5:23
Speaker 2: Politicians are gonna have to earn their vote.
5:26
Speaker 1: Yes, they have agreed to become competitive and who that's
5:30
Speaker 1: wholesome for the country, and it's in the best interests
5:33
Speaker 1: of the black community to be competitive.
5:38
Speaker 2: So Josh, what do you think the opportunity is here?
5:41
Speaker 3: Well, Uh, America is first and foremost a middle class
5:45
Speaker 3: commercial republic and we have to get back to building things.
5:50
Speaker 3: And so, I I don't know that it's gonna be easy.
5:53
Speaker 3: I think they're huge challenges to to r moving away
5:57
Speaker 3: from globalism toward a middle class commercial republic.
6:00
Speaker 4: But what we have to.
6:01
Speaker 3: Do is to recognize that the people who are working
6:07
Speaker 3: with their hands, and this is not only whites, but
6:10
Speaker 3: blacks and Hispanics and all the rest, have to be
6:13
Speaker 3: given an opportunity. Our state craftsmen have to be thinking
6:17
Speaker 3: about how they can make sure that this group thrives
6:20
Speaker 3: from here on in. Instead of thinking about global capital,
6:24
Speaker 3: we have to start thinking about the people who are
6:27
Speaker 3: living everyday lives among us.
6:28
Speaker 2: And maybe explain to me what does this mean exactly,
6:31
Speaker 2: this middle class commercial republic.
6:35
Speaker 3: There's only one philosophical tradition in America that's ever developed,
6:39
Speaker 3: and it's called pragmatism. Why because Americans, unlike Europeans, who
6:44
Speaker 3: are involved in very high level theoretical debates which led
6:48
Speaker 3: to the disasters of socialism and national socialism. By the way,
6:52
Speaker 3: Americans have always been a practical people, and the disease
6:55
Speaker 3: of the last twenty years at least, that we've been
6:58
Speaker 3: asked to think ideologically, are you pure?
7:01
Speaker 4: Are you stained? Uh?
7:03
Speaker 3: And what we have to do now is put away
7:06
Speaker 3: all that we have to become a truly postraci racial society.
7:10
Speaker 3: And of course, the word on the street was that
7:12
Speaker 3: Obama was the first post racial president. It will probably
7:15
Speaker 3: be Trump who's the first post racial president, so we
7:18
Speaker 3: have to uh be be moving in that direction.
7:20
Speaker 1: I think I think President Obama was in a position
7:24
Speaker 1: to be the first post racial president.
7:27
Speaker 4: But as soon as.
7:28
Speaker 1: He came out in that speech at Morehouse University where
7:33
Speaker 1: he prodded young men to step up and be fathers
7:38
Speaker 1: and he was castigated by the civil rights leadership, he
7:42
Speaker 1: retreated from that, never spoke about personal responsibility again, and
7:47
Speaker 1: he eventually devolved with a Trayvon Martin situation by saying
7:52
Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin could have been my son. That was a
7:55
Speaker 1: death knell to racial uh, ending racial uh polarization in America.
7:59
Speaker 1: He be came a a a a racial president from
8:03
Speaker 1: that moment on, and it's ironic that President uh elect
8:09
Speaker 1: Trump attracted thirty percent of black independence men and the
8:16
Speaker 1: largest number of Hispanics. Because he spoke to the practical
8:22
Speaker 1: needs of people. And so that's why I think he
8:26
Speaker 1: is the first post racial president. He's not a guilty
8:29
Speaker 1: white person, and which to me is refreshing.
8:35
Speaker 2: Well, so, w what what do you mean by not
8:38
Speaker 2: a guilty white person?
8:39
Speaker 1: My, my, my young colleague Delano Squire's I think framed it.
8:43
Speaker 4: He said a lot of this.
8:45
Speaker 1: I this the the the partisan debate on race is
8:49
Speaker 1: driven by guilty whites who are seeking absolutions from crimes
8:53
Speaker 1: they never committed, and entitled blacks who are seeking absol
8:58
Speaker 1: uh absolution for men.
8:59
Speaker 4: Justice is they never suffered.
9:01
Speaker 2: That.
9:01
Speaker 1: The biggest challenge that we're facing is a class phenomena.
9:06
Speaker 4: From both the left and the right.
9:08
Speaker 1: You have racial grievance merchants. The civil rights movement has
9:12
Speaker 1: dwarfed into a race grievance industry. Seventy percent of all
9:17
Speaker 1: these twenty two trillion that we've spent in the past
9:19
Speaker 1: fifty years on poverty programs, seventy percent of it goes
9:23
Speaker 1: to middle class people black white, who are providing services
9:26
Speaker 1: to the poor. So we've created a commodity out of
9:30
Speaker 1: poor people.
9:32
Speaker 4: And we wonder why we fail.
9:34
Speaker 1: So they ask which problems are fundable, not winds filings
9:38
Speaker 1: are solvable. And going back to Josh's point that any
9:45
Speaker 1: group's participation in the American economy isn't what government does
9:49
Speaker 1: for them, is their small business for mation rates in
9:55
Speaker 1: a healthy economy, only three percent of Americans are ontorepreneurs,
10:01
Speaker 1: but they generate seventy percent of the jobs. And entrepreneurs
10:07
Speaker 1: tend to be C students, not A students. According to
10:09
Speaker 1: David Birch's study at mit A students come back to
10:13
Speaker 1: universities and TC students in Dow fascinating.
10:17
Speaker 2: Is that really true, Yes, Sir David Burchased, I didn't
10:21
Speaker 2: know that.
10:21
Speaker 1: Yes that Whenever I say this to business groups, they laugh.
10:25
Speaker 1: I was fucking Miami and they looked in the back room.
10:29
Speaker 1: He said, Yeah, this guy was the last person in
10:31
Speaker 1: law class and he can buy all of us.
10:36
Speaker 4: Identity.
10:36
Speaker 3: Politics is built on guilt, and I think part of
10:41
Speaker 3: the reason why there has been such an unpredictable reaction
10:48
Speaker 3: to Trump Russia collusion, all this stuff is he's he's, literally,
10:54
Speaker 3: the way I put it in Prentice, the wrong kind
10:56
Speaker 3: of white man. Because if you're white, and I have
11:00
Speaker 3: no interest in defending blood and soil politics, so please
11:04
Speaker 3: don't misunderstand me. But if you're a white man, you
11:07
Speaker 3: have to be you have to be guilty.
11:10
Speaker 4: You have to.
11:10
Speaker 3: Defend every innocent victimhood cause, and if you don't, you're
11:16
Speaker 3: considered toxic. And Joe, Biden and Waltz, the Democrat model
11:20
Speaker 3: of a male is this guilty white male, and Trump
11:24
Speaker 3: literally cannot exist in that world. This is why you
11:27
Speaker 3: have to invent a demonic source that brings him forth,
11:31
Speaker 3: like Russia or something like this.
11:33
Speaker 4: And the victory of Trump.
11:36
Speaker 3: Is a cultural declaration that America is done looking at
11:43
Speaker 3: people as if they're guilty or innocent victims. It does
11:47
Speaker 3: nobody any good. We have a generation of men, black
11:51
Speaker 3: and white, who are told that they need to recede,
11:55
Speaker 3: and they are receding with drugs and violence and pornography
11:58
Speaker 3: and video games. We need to bring them back. It
12:01
Speaker 3: cannot be the case that the future is female. And
12:05
Speaker 3: so I have two sons. It cannot be the case
12:07
Speaker 3: that all of us who have sons and grandsons, I
12:09
Speaker 3: have to tell them that they need to step aside.
12:11
Speaker 3: We need to build a regime based on competence full stop,
12:16
Speaker 3: and give everybody an opportunity to develop along those lines.
12:21
Speaker 4: And what's so wondrous about.
12:22
Speaker 3: Bob's groups is that they're not interested in talking about
12:27
Speaker 3: guilt and innocence. They are interested in demonstrating competence to
12:30
Speaker 3: themselves and to others around them, and they are looked
12:34
Speaker 3: up to by younger members of the community who are
12:37
Speaker 3: at risk.
12:38
Speaker 4: And as one.
12:39
Speaker 3: Of Bob's people, Julia had said in one of our meetings,
12:44
Speaker 3: the reason why people succeed is they have somebody they
12:49
Speaker 3: don't want to let down, and that person is a
12:52
Speaker 3: person of competence. And we have to stop thinking in
12:55
Speaker 3: terms of economic efficiency on the libertarian right, we have
12:59
Speaker 3: to stop thinking in terms of innocent victimhood on the left,
13:02
Speaker 3: and we have to focus singularly on developing the competence
13:06
Speaker 3: of our fellow citizens.
13:07
Speaker 2: Gentlemen, we're gonna take a quick break right now and
13:09
Speaker 2: we'll be right back, and we're back with Georgetown Professor
13:14
Speaker 2: of Government Josh Mitchell and founder of the Wits and Center,
13:17
Speaker 2: Bob Woodson. You know, this is a perfect opportunity to
13:21
Speaker 2: just talk a little bit about maybe let's start with
13:23
Speaker 2: your background, Bob of course you've been on the show.
13:26
Speaker 2: We've talked about the work you've done at the Woodson Center.
13:28
Speaker 2: But just give us a thumbnail of you know how
13:30
Speaker 2: you came into this from the beginning.
13:33
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I was born in South Philadelphia,
13:36
Speaker 1: one of the youngest of five children to a mother
13:39
Speaker 1: with a fifth grade education. My dad was a laborer,
13:42
Speaker 1: very strong. She got a job at a time when
13:47
Speaker 1: men did not blacks did not drive trucks from the dairies,
13:52
Speaker 1: I mean from the train to the dairies. And he
13:56
Speaker 1: took the job, and he had a fighter his way
13:58
Speaker 1: to keep it. They say, you can have it, you
14:00
Speaker 1: can keep it. He's a very strong, ill guide.
14:03
Speaker 2: But this is under Jim Crow basically.
14:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was in Jim June nineteen thirty seven, in
14:09
Speaker 1: the midst of the depression. And also Jim Crow, and
14:13
Speaker 1: he was with the had some war related wounds. He
14:17
Speaker 1: fought in the First World War with America uh New
14:20
Speaker 1: York Hellcats, Harlem Hellcats.
14:23
Speaker 4: But he had some.
14:25
Speaker 1: Chronic problems resulted in him dying when I was about nine,
14:31
Speaker 1: leaving my mother with five children to raise in in
14:35
Speaker 1: this neighborhood. But again it was secure and so I
14:38
Speaker 1: had to rely upon my peers as an alternative family,
14:42
Speaker 1: and so I gained an appreciation why kids joined gangs.
14:46
Speaker 4: But I was blessed to.
14:47
Speaker 1: Be equipped with the kind of values that I chose
14:49
Speaker 1: good friends and they there are three of us left
14:53
Speaker 1: today when they were a year older than me, and
14:56
Speaker 1: they dropped so they went into the college and and
15:00
Speaker 1: I was uh unaffiliated, and so I dropped out and
15:03
Speaker 1: went into the Air Force.
15:05
Speaker 4: In nineteen fifty four.
15:06
Speaker 1: I was in the space program and the Air Force
15:09
Speaker 1: sort uh things in me and I went to college.
15:13
Speaker 1: UH while I was in the Seri s Air Force
15:16
Speaker 1: University of Miami twelve credits only I had to be
15:20
Speaker 1: taught on the base cause I couldn't walk on campus.
15:22
Speaker 1: I have twelve credits from University marrim Me at the time,
15:25
Speaker 1: and I could not walk on the campus. So I
15:27
Speaker 1: knew it racism was all about. Long story short, after
15:30
Speaker 1: I got out, I uh worked my way through college
15:35
Speaker 1: to a black college. Thank god it wasn't affirmative action
15:39
Speaker 1: that would have put me at pen But I went
15:42
Speaker 1: to a small black college, Cheney, where I got the
15:45
Speaker 1: kind of uh intellectual nurturing and I needed that prepared
15:48
Speaker 1: me for a full scholarship to the University of Pennsylvania,
15:51
Speaker 1: got involved in the Civil rights movement, but became very
15:54
Speaker 1: disenchanted when I realized that people that there was a
15:58
Speaker 1: bait and switching game going on where we use the
16:01
Speaker 1: demographics of poor blacks to promote remedies, and when funding came,
16:06
Speaker 1: it did not go to poor blacks, it went to
16:08
Speaker 1: middle class providers. So I left the civil rights movement
16:12
Speaker 1: following the death of Doctor King and began to work
16:15
Speaker 1: on behalf of blow income people of all races. And
16:19
Speaker 1: so I have been singularly focused on serving the needs
16:25
Speaker 1: of the least of God's children, which means that I
16:30
Speaker 1: have to be clear and constant in that commitment, and
16:35
Speaker 1: so therefore I thought it was necessary to be humble,
16:40
Speaker 1: but also, in the words of doctor King, be open
16:43
Speaker 1: to self criticism. So those are the principles that have
16:47
Speaker 1: guided my work. So I have worked now and on
16:49
Speaker 1: behalf of low income people. Since the late sixties, I
16:53
Speaker 1: have worked on behalf of low income people of all races.
16:56
Speaker 1: I worked with Native Americans and takeover Alcatraz, work with
17:00
Speaker 1: Caesar Travez and helped them get a farm, workers, help
17:04
Speaker 1: them to develop acquire a medical facility affordable to help
17:10
Speaker 1: farm workers. So my work has singlely been concentrating on
17:16
Speaker 1: the class issue, and that's what's missing today.
17:21
Speaker 2: And I may, if I may add, through this unique
17:24
Speaker 2: approach of going into communities that are, you know, let's
17:28
Speaker 2: call it disadvantaged. I don't know what term you're supposed
17:31
Speaker 2: to use in finding people that are succeeding there and
17:33
Speaker 2: empowering them.
17:34
Speaker 1: For many years, the name of my organization was had
17:37
Speaker 1: the Work Enterprise in it. It was only changed for
17:40
Speaker 1: the Woodson Center for the past six years because my
17:43
Speaker 1: name is more associated with the principles than the enterprise.
17:46
Speaker 1: But the reason I selected is because the same principles
17:48
Speaker 1: that work in the market economy work in the social economy.
17:52
Speaker 1: And so what Witson Center does. We go into low
17:55
Speaker 1: income communities with sort of like a venture capitalist without capital.
18:03
Speaker 1: We go into there and we look for social entrepreneurs,
18:07
Speaker 1: people who were in prison, people who under had overcome
18:13
Speaker 1: tremendous odds in their lives.
18:15
Speaker 4: They were alcoholics, they were prostitutes.
18:17
Speaker 1: Through God's grace, they became redeemed, and they use their
18:21
Speaker 1: redemptive qualities to influence others. And this is where Josh
18:26
Speaker 1: and I come together because a lot of conservatives believe
18:31
Speaker 1: that the way you change people is to teach them,
18:35
Speaker 1: and so there's a great alliance on intellectual white papers.
18:40
Speaker 1: And if we just had the right policies, then people's
18:44
Speaker 1: practice will change.
18:46
Speaker 4: Well.
18:46
Speaker 1: To me, I understood that values are not taught, they're caught,
18:52
Speaker 1: and so grassroots leaders are UH. I are able to
18:56
Speaker 1: r UH redeem and promote redemption and reform of individuals
19:02
Speaker 1: by actually modeling the kind of values that they want
19:07
Speaker 1: people to emulate. And as a consequence, I have been
19:12
Speaker 1: a party to the restoration of whole communities. Just based
19:17
Speaker 1: upon the enterprising work of three or four people, they're
19:22
Speaker 1: able to affect hundreds. And so the Woodson Center has
19:27
Speaker 1: been there to not only document it, but also provide
19:31
Speaker 1: access to capital. So two things that a venture capitalist
19:37
Speaker 1: brings to an enterprise. They bring capital, but they also
19:40
Speaker 1: bring managerial expertise, because entrepreneurs are for bookkeepers and grass
19:45
Speaker 1: roots people are for bookkeepers. And so what the Woodson
19:48
Speaker 1: Center does is provide training and also access to capital,
19:52
Speaker 1: so they can take what works for ten people and
19:56
Speaker 1: affect one thousand. Though with the qualities that make these
19:59
Speaker 1: gas roots of healing agents effective makes them invisible, and
20:06
Speaker 1: that's because elitism prevents both conservatives and liberals looking to
20:13
Speaker 1: them to untutored people.
20:15
Speaker 4: As a source of solution. That's why I.
20:17
Speaker 1: Say there's wisdom that is learned and the wisdom that
20:21
Speaker 1: is earned. Grass Roots people earn their wisdom and therefore
20:28
Speaker 1: what we as a society can benefit from them. But
20:34
Speaker 1: they're ignored as a source of new insight. And that's
20:38
Speaker 1: why this administration is poised is in a position to
20:46
Speaker 1: really harvest that knowledge and put these people to work
20:52
Speaker 1: healing this community, this society. If a mother who lost
20:58
Speaker 1: two sons in a toxic, violent neighborhood, who are able
21:02
Speaker 1: to forgive the people who committed these crimes and use
21:08
Speaker 1: turn that pain into purpose and cause twenty other moms
21:14
Speaker 1: to find healing, perhaps they have something to teach a
21:17
Speaker 1: middle class mother who lost a child to suicide. And
21:22
Speaker 1: so the biggest challenge we're facing is a moral and
21:25
Speaker 1: spiritual free fall that is consuming people of all races
21:29
Speaker 1: and all colors. But we're not going to be able
21:32
Speaker 1: to find the source of dissolution if we are separated
21:37
Speaker 1: by race, and that's why we must become post racial.
21:41
Speaker 2: So what should doge, in your mind, be doing, or
21:45
Speaker 2: what should other institutions be doing on day one to
21:48
Speaker 2: facilitate this.
21:49
Speaker 3: Vision, well, minimally, I think we have to ask the question,
21:53
Speaker 3: or people involved with it have to ask the question,
21:56
Speaker 3: what can be devolved Back to the state of education?
22:00
Speaker 3: For example, the federal government has no business, in my view,
22:04
Speaker 3: being involved in education.
22:06
Speaker 4: So decentralized.
22:07
Speaker 3: Decentralized, decentralized where possible, but with a full understanding that
22:12
Speaker 3: you don't just cut spending and then everything takes care
22:15
Speaker 3: of itself. What it means is citizens are going to
22:17
Speaker 3: have to step up again.
22:19
Speaker 4: And so what we have now is.
22:22
Speaker 3: Infantilized citizenry that's concerned with Instagram and X and the rest,
22:29
Speaker 3: spending way too much time on that rather than engagement
22:33
Speaker 3: at the local level. I tell my students I would
22:36
Speaker 3: like every parent in America to go to sleep at
22:38
Speaker 3: night and wonder whether the educational system in the next
22:41
Speaker 3: school district or the next county is better than the
22:43
Speaker 3: one that they have, and if they're worried about it,
22:46
Speaker 3: they need to spend their energies figure out how to
22:49
Speaker 3: make their own school system much better. As opposed to
22:52
Speaker 3: infantilized citizens who just say oh, the Department of Education
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Speaker 3: will take care of it. Yes, emphasize cutting spending, but
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Speaker 3: they have to double emphasized the fact that the burden
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Speaker 3: will then come back to citizens to develop competencies to
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Speaker 3: deal with these issues.
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Speaker 2: Well, Bob Woodson, Josh Mitchell, such a pleasure to have
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Speaker 2: had you on. Thank you, Thank you all for joining
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Speaker 2: Bob Woodson, Josh Mitchell, and me on this episode of
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Speaker 2: American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Yanya Kellek