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Transcript

Ephesians 2:1-10 with Devin Dummel · Pursuing the Heart

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, this is uh Pursuing the Heart.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh God pursued me.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now I pursue him.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we have another week, another night of uh podcasting uh coming to you.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I asked a new friend of mine to come on the podcast.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: His name is Devin.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: And how you say your last name?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Devin Dummel.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Dummel.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Dumbbell Devin Dummel.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um he said yes.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: So he's on tonight.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to tell everybody a little bit about yourself?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, yeah.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm uh a local pastor.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, been been uh in the local church for and longer than I like to admit, Scott, my my hair's getting gray from uh leading people and loving people, and uh I've I've served in lots of different roles.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: I was a student pastor for a long time, been the lead pastor for the last five years.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, have an incredible team that I get to work with every week.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh beyond that, I'm uh a dad and a husband, and um and love watching my kids grow and just helping them kind of find their way to Jesus too.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you so you have a wife.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, and then her name is Her name's Leah.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: My wife knows her.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh she really likes your wife.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she got to know her.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: I like her too.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: She got to know her um through the women's uh uh ministry at church, yeah, and uh really likes her a lot.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um also, too, you have how many kids?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I have three kids.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I have one who is starting high school this year, which is just wild to me.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a sixth grader and a six-year-old.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: So my oldest Declan is going to high school, and middle guy Dryden uh is sixth grade, so like the oldest in his school.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then Waverly, uh, our little daughter, she is the boss of our family, and she'll be going into first grade.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Your middle child is the talkative one, right?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, he's never met a stranger.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, he reminds me of me.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: He just walks up to me and just has a com uh conversation.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he wears Ohio State.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's a huge Ohio State fan.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: He lets everybody know.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh, what are you preparing for right now?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: You got a big event coming up.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the summer for us is a little crazy.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: My wife's a teacher, and so she gets the summer off and she's spending a lot of time with the kids.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: But we at the church are gearing up for a local summer camp.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, to be honest with you, Scott, when I moved here 15 years ago, everybody said, Hey, this thing we do, this local camp, it's called Adventure Camp.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's awesome.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna love it, it's amazing.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: And they told me about it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: And the more I heard about it, I thought, you guys are insane.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, there are church camps we could go to that do all this stuff.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have to do this in our backyard, we don't have to build it all ourselves.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so I uh in the back of my mind, I was like, we'll watch it for a year and then we'll make some changes.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: But I saw it the first year.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: I saw God moving, I saw the Holy Spirit present.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: I also saw I saw lots of liabilities that we needed to fix.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and over the course of the last 15 years, man, we've we've just uh watched God do some really special things.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: So we are gearing up for that.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's the end of July.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so basically all of our energy until Adventure Camp is focused towards that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know students that are going, that are friends, my grandson's going for his third year in a row, and then a lot of his friends are going too.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And when he moved here uh to Pendleton, um he was told specifically, you have to go to this camp.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And he loves it.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the first year he uh he it rained and um it was very wet.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was not enjoying the wetness, but he loved it.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I know it's a huge impact on the community.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kids talk about it.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's like, but they also want to, they're always like, Hey, did you get in?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Did you get in?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like a lot of people are trying to get in.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: It is, yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: And Scott, I think one of the coolest things about it, too, as Scott's grown it, is um there are so many churches connected to it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think the last time we checked, which was a couple years ago, there were over 50 different churches connected to it through students, volunteers, group leaders, like all the different ways that people show up.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: It was really cool to see the church show up for these kids.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it just keeps going.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: God keeps growing it, so it's a lot of fun.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you can uh pray for uh the church there.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, pray for that coming up.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what what's the dates for that for everybody to know?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's uh July 30th through August 2nd, and um big prayer.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: We're the theme we're talking about is the Holy Spirit this year.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so kind of doing a character study, like what do the scriptures say about the Holy Spirit?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm excited about that.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's maybe some of the more ambitious stuff that we've tackled with that age group, and um so I'm excited about that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: You can be praying for that, the content, and just that it would connect with students, but also you mentioned the weather.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Pray for the weather.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Last year we're praying for cooler weather.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, last year it was perfect.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, God, whatever you did last year, let's run it back.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: It was awesome.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: We loved it.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so um, pray for the camp.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, pray for the the people involved, give them plenty of energy because they're probably gonna need that.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh pray for the spirit, the Holy Spirit.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: The this the thing you're talking about for the camp, pray that the spirit is will I know he will be there.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just pray that he will prick the hearts of the youth and they want to learn and yearn more about Christ, about who Jesus is.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that's awesome because people who know me, I'm my hairs are standing on my arms.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: People who know me, I love talking about the Holy Spirit because it's one thing that I believe a lot of people don't talk a lot about.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's the ooh, what is it?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Who is he?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: This mystical kind of nature.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Mystical, mystical thing.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's awesome.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna talk about that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I'm really excited about it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: And again, you know, the heart of the uh the idea is like God's spirit is working in you, around you, and he wants to work through you.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Will you be aware of his presence?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: Will you be open to his nudging?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Will you learn to hear his voice?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's gonna be an awesome summer.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really excited about it.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you want to hear the Holy Spirit, just start reading the Bible.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good start right there.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um, this is pursuing the heart.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, God pursued us, now we pursue him.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we are on all streaming platforms.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just like, uh just subscribe and share.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we'll get this uh get this out to as many people as possible.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's like throwing a rock in a big pond, and we're just the little ripple.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we do have a pretty good audience, and we can always need more.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm gonna open up in prayer and or hey, you know what, Devin, why don't you open up in prayer and then we'll just get dive into this Ephesians.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking at Ephesians again.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Woody, my friend, who um just retired as a pastor and has opened up his own ministry now.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was on for the last two times, and it was really good.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: We opened up in Ephesians 1, and today we're gonna be jumping in Ephesians 2.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let me pray for it.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: God, thank you for today.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for the ways that you've been moving and working in our lives.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so thankful for your scriptures, for your word.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: I pray that as we gather around them tonight, as we push and pull and think, God, may your spirit just bubble what we need to the surface.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Speak to our hearts, draw us closer to you.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: We ask this in Jesus' name.
• 7:58
  unknown: Amen.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Devin, um, this podcast, you just jump in whenever you feel led.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so wrapping up uh chapter one, uh, we spoke um about the um the laying the foundation, right?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So Paul's writing the book.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it is written to um the group of Ephesians, uh Ephesus, the Church of Ephesus.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh we know that this is one of the prison books he wrote in prison.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he had established a church in Ephesus.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Woody made the point last week and the week before that some people believe that um it's written to the church of Ephesus or the surrounding area of the churches around Ephesus.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a good um that's a good uh thing.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I I tend to think it's probably written to the Church of Ephesus, but Woody made a point.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh in some writings, some people believe it was written to the area there around Ephesus and Ephesus.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: We know that's a very wealthy uh town.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: We also know that it was on the um on the ocean.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it was a lot of very major thoroughfare.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was also uh a lot of different beliefs were in this town as well, just as the makeup of those cities as well.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh he is writing this, it's weird, it's crazy.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you get this thing in Paul's writings that he's writing it to the Jewish people, or he in the in the congregation, or he's written it to the whole church, or he's written it to the saints, which are the believers in the church, and this opens up in verse one in chapter one that he says um to the saints who are at Ephesus.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you get this idea, or I do, that he's writing it to the believers, and then what did he do?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: What did he say in the whole first chapter?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Who Christ is, what we have, the key things.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, we went through this last two weeks.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Key words in him, us, you, is you plural, is it you directly?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the the he him.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So is he God?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: He Christ.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is it his?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So those things are very important when you read that first chapter, and then the book, the uh the uh the ooh, we had to talk about predestination, okay, and then we talk about chosen, those are keywords.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people don't like to talk about that stuff, but it's in there.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we had we talked about it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Woody and I had some great discussion about that.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then what was he talking about there?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you can go back and listen to those.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we left off, we finished last week, verse 23.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I like to do is go back because there's an and the chapter two starts with an and, right, Devin?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, mine says as for, but I'm assuming it's for transition from what he's already written.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like again, when this was originally written, it is written as a letter.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm writing a letter to Devin, I'm not gonna put, you know, it's not sin it's not one, two, three verses, and it's not chapters, so it's a continual, continual thing.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if we go back and look at say twenty-two in the previous chapter, it says, and he put all things in subjection subjection under his feet, and gave him um as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fits all in all.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So again, his he put all things in subjection under his feet, so the he there would be God.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would that's the way I take it, right?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: The NIV translates it that way.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, the NIV says that it says and God placed all things under his, I'm assuming Jesus' feet.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I would I would say that's Jesus, right?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's gotta be, right?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So uh then it says gave him Jesus Jesus the head over all things to the church, because it it does say in other scriptures that we are the bride and he's the bridegroom.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that whole we are the church thing, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we when you see us, you see when I see other believers that I see Christ in them.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of times we look at people on the outside as far as their behavior, and we don't really see who that person is until unless we spend time with them.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then you see who Christ is.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, all right.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's just maturing, or she's just maturing.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's uh it's an interesting thing, you know.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: As a pastor, a lot of times people think, oh, hey, they got baptized, so they're magically different, you know, the next day.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, uh, no, we're in process of being transformed, uh, churchy word, sanctified, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, that's that that's that other word that we've talked about, theological word, sanctification.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've said that I've said this in the past, sanctification.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Scott says it's spiritual maturity.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a great way to think of it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that takes intentionality, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: You don't just automatically become mature.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Scott, we think about people we know, and it's like, man, I love you, but you gotta grow up a little bit, right?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: Both literally and spiritually.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: We gotta do both things.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I like calling people knuckleheads.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm a knucklehead sometimes when I make not great choices, so I'm a knucklehead.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And other people are knuckleheads as well.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so let's dive into chapter two.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: It says, and you were dead in your trespasses and sin and sins.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So this is wild.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I um so you were dead.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you didn't have a choice, is what this is saying.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: You were dead.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the way I way I think about this, like we got a terminal diagnosis here, Scott.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: We are dead in our sins, right?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's the diagnosis, that's where we stand.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um exactly where he starts here in chapter two.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the it we're gonna talk about dead in Christ or alive in Christ.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's this uh Southwest Georgian thing, I've said this in the past.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's is you is or you ain't.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very simple.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: You is in the family of Christ or you ain't part of the family.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you ain't, you part of the ain't crowd, you're dead.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you didn't have a choice.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it was if you go all the way back to the garden, it was a result of what Adam and Eve did, and Paul's just saying, Hey, recognize your condition.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: You were dead in your trespasses.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I take this, he's writing this directly to the believers who are in the congregation and going and saying, Hey, realize you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you formerly walked.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, that's that great word, walked.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to do a great biblical study on walk, it you can your mind will blow, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, Enoch, it says he walked with God.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you get this impression that Enoch walked with God, and then all these other dudes, like Abraham walked with God, Moses walked with God.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like, Devin?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, when we think about walk, like sometimes kind of like, hey man, I gotta take the dog for a walk.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: We're thinking like, okay, so we we went for a walk, we we did the thing we were supposed to do, but this the Greek concept here of of what he's writing here, walking is a way of living.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's living in step with uh at the same pace of, right?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're made alive, you have this desire to walk with Christ, is what you're saying, Debbie.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I think the picture is a really powerful one, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's when you were dead in your transgressions, when you lived your own way, you went wherever you wanted to, you did whatever you wanted to, your feet took you where you wanted to go.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: This picture of walking, of living together in step is a powerful one of being redirected, reoriented.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, we we talk about it sometimes in our our student ministry circles of like a 180.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: You you headed in a different direction because you aligned yourself in a way where you were walking with him.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So there's this thing I call it's like repentance.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: You repent from your old self, you do that 180, like you say, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: You repent from that, but then now you're pursuing God, pursuing Christ, this relationship, but it's all about relationship.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it and we as participants, we get to participate in this relationship.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it says, formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the what does your interpretation say?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because mine says prince of the power of the air.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Mine's mine's NIV.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and you know, for me, it's just a practical usage that a lot of people, it's easier to read.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I it's interesting how it translates sometimes when you gotta dig into it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: But um, yeah, it says uh in which you used to live, this is verse two, when you followed the ways of this world, so that's one part, and so there are two different ways we are dead.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: We followed the ways of the world, we try to be like everybody else, do what they did, value what they value.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me how that's working out for you.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, not good.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: No, uh, not good.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's funny in the moment, most people don't go, Well, I want to stop doing this, but in hindsight, they always go, That that didn't go well for me.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know why I keep doing it, you know.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh, I don't need to be in charge, I make bad decisions.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: I said this in a recent sermon.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's like one of the big points is you can't trust you, Scott.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's no, you need accountability, you need to be called to maturity, you need to understand, like Paul starts, you're you're dead on your own.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: You you need someone else as your leader, savior, guide.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, the first part says um follow the ways of this world and Okay, here we go.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: Of the ruler of the kingdom of the air.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Kingdom, ruler of the kingdom of the air.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm taking this as that S word.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Are we talking about Satan here?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: It so sure sounds like it, right?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, he continues on, he says, uh, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a descriptor, right?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this says of the spirit, of the mind says of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they don't know it, or they might know it, that hey, he's working in there.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: He's because you're born in that, you're dead in your sins, you're doing whatever everyone else is doing, or you're just doing what what's good, and then that it says the prince of the power of the air of the spirit that is working in the sons of disobedience.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so a lot of people think is hey, there's this red horn figure, and he's this bad dude, and he's in hell or whatever, and then but this says that's not the case.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's actually here.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: It says mine says power of the air, which is pretty strong.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so but he's there, he's here, um, and he is doing trying to he's can trying to control, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's he's he's trying to the first thing it's everything against whatever God, right?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's going against everything who Christ is, who you set out to do something, and it's like he's the anti of that, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's Christ, and then there's the opposite of that, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: I I think Paul here is doing something really important for us, um, especially his worldview, right?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: He's yeah, he's like highlighting for us, yes, you are responsible for some of the garbage in your life.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: You've made choices, you've done things, you've tried to.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's one part of it.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: And there are spiritual forces at work against you, and at work against God in this world.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, right.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's important for us to acknowledge that.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, sometimes, um, depending on your background, depending on what you grew up in, like you could swing the pendulum one way or the other.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: But the reality is Paul's worldview is very clear, right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: There is a spiritual force working against what God is trying to do and working against you, uh, following God.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a good thing for us to be aware of and notice that sometimes, you know, what you're experiencing might be uh your fault, your hardship, your consequence, your, you know, um, but sometimes there are other forces at play.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll just real briefly, I was one of those people that was raised in a church that was just Satan, didn't recognize all the other evil forces.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And now I can say that I do not hold that view.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I see there's all types of forces at play.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Here, there's evil spirits.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: He might just be the command.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think, in one interpretation, I think it's the new living.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: They use the word commander.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Commander of the air.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the prince, the ruler, the commander.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great however you want to package it, it makes sense, right?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: He is in between you and God, the ruler of the air, this idea, right?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: This picture is kind of it's powerful.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but again, we got to understand the ancient worldview, right?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there's probably, well, probably just as many then as there are now.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, so going into verse three, it says, Among them, we too all formerly lived in the lust of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh, and in it says, and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's more of a nature thing.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's more it that that keyword flesh.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Does yours use a different word in yours?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, it says gratifying the cravings of the flesh and filling the desires and thoughts, like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were dead.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Literally, I looked this up too.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: The Greek says children of wrath.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: Earlier we're talking about children of disobedience, children of wrath.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this is uh New American Standard says children of wrath.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think part of the idea here is like we by nature, because we are human and we are flawed and we sin, we deserve God's righteous judgment.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's what we deserve.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: He's righteous, and we deserve the judgment coming our way.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's what this is talking about.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I if I I always say if you ever have kids, or if you go back to the kids' ministry at any church, or you go around kids, especially little ones, no one teaches them to steal a toy from another kid.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Am I right, Devin?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's like natural, it just comes naturally, man.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, no one teaches someone to do this or lie.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't do that, mom.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't do that, dad.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so um it's just the it's the nature, right?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the cool thing is is when we accept Christ in our heart, Christ gives us a new nature.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then he's just trying to remind, and it says in the verse four is really awesome.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: It says, But God.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Can I pause you right there?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love big butts.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's one of my pastor jugs.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: This verse four is a big butt.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's huge, it's huge.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: I want you to read it, but I want you to understand like the turn here that Paul does from one to three, right?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like the verses one to three is totally this idea of like terminally termally diagnosed.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: This is where you're at, and then he gives you a big butt.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he's saying he's making it establishing this, right, Devin.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is who you were.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I need you to understand who you are now.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he's saying, he's saying, believers, please listen to me.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pleading with you.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: You were these things, you were attached to this, but you're not attached to this because why?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And here's your big butt.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's mine says, but God exactly rich in mercy because of his great love, which he which he loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: By grace, you have been saved.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Jesus.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So go back to first four there.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: It says, being rich and mercy.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Mercy is described which way, Devin?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, mercy.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: So grace is getting something good you don't deserve.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Mercy is not getting the thing you do deserve.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's the way I've always thought about it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he's saying, rich in mercy.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I and you know what, Scott, for me, when I became a dad, that was a big shift.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like I started to understand God's heart a little bit more because Scott, I got a 14-year-old.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of times he deserves some righteous judgment.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's what needs to happen.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: I saw him on somebody's ring door cam the other day.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, dude, he deserves some judgment.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: But like there are these moments where it's like, I want to be rich in mercy.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: I want to have a good conversation with him.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: I want him to help him see a better future.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't just want to beat him down, I want to build him back up.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And wait till they get older and you're just like, Yeah, hey, um, can I help you real quick?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you just chose this, it might be it might be a little hard or a little difficult at first, but man, it's gonna be way better than what you you're choosing to do.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have a 33-year-old and my daughter, she's or I might be wrong, 34 and 35.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: So they're older.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I know what exactly what you're saying, and you're just like, oh, you know, come on.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: I just I just and then I have a grandson, and same thing.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, can I just tell you something?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, but I think being a parent helps you really understand the heart of God here so much, right?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, you want to correct, you want to realign, you want to force things to go the way they should go.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but God in his mercy, he's rich in mercy.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Rich in mercy.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I want it because he at any moment could control the situation.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's his you know, sovereignty, but he's giving you free will and and rich in mercy, and because of his great love in which he loved us, so his great love in which he loved us, that reminds me of God loved us so much that he was sent his son to die for us.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's how much he loved us.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: To have a relationship with us is it's so powerful that he would send his son talking about love, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Read first John.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is just the love there as far as what it's like, God loved you so much that he sent his son to do to come show who he was, no one really believed in that, and then he put him and he had to die a very terrible death for me, for me to have a relationship for to him.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the ultimate love.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's so once you once I recognize that, once I understood that, I operate out of that love because I love God, I want to go to church, I love God, I want to read my Bible.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's in a response to his love, right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right, yeah, yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was just, you know, I don't know why I got all these parenting anecdotes, but I just bought another story.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh just from this last week or so.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my son, again, he's he's he's wanting to have a lot of freedom, and I want that for him, you know.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: I but I also want to protect him.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: And uh he got invited to go on a trip and stay the night out of state with people I don't know very well, and I just said no.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: And part of it, Scott, was just like, well, what I said was, you can go if I go with you.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: Which is not what he wants.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: He doesn't want his dad to tag along on the on this trip.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but the reason that was the caveat was because if I go, I can keep him safe.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: If I if I go, I know what's happening to him.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: I can still allow him to have some freedom, but right, but I can protect him.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, a father's greatest fear is to lose their child.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and you're reading those verses and we're talking about God's love and like Scott, my heart is just breaking because as I'm talking to my son a few days ago, I'm trying to help him understand the thing he can't see because he's not a dad.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, I can't afford to lose you.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: I I can't I can't bear it.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: My heart can't bear it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: And yet to flip that as we read this text and go, God loved us in a way that I can't even put words to because I could never.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: And he sacrificed his son for you and for me and for everyone.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it is, man, when you really slow down and think about it, right?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because you can like, oh, Jesus loves you and all this.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, great.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: But when you slow down and you go, hold on a second, could I do that?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's God, I I couldn't.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's my son.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'd want to take my place of my son.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll go.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or my grandson or my grandkids or my wife.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, if I can okay, God, if for her not to die, or my kids, or my grandkids, I'm willing to be that, you know.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: But he Yeah, so to bring it back in, it's like this is the kind of love he has for you.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: You can't even describe it.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's can't really fathom it.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's and in and um you really can't fathom the rich being rich in mercy, right?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: That he gave us his son to die for us.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it says, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ by what grace, you have been saved.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So dead again, we're using that's the second time that's come up tonight if I'm counting right.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dead in transpasses, trans sorry, it says dead in our transgressions, which is the same thing as verse one, dead in our sins, made us alive, so you're either dead or alive.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's it, is or you ain't, like I said earlier.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Together with Christ, by grace, you have been saved.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: So at that moment, you believe I never saw Christ die on the cross.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: At the moment I believe and I have faith, I put faith in that that that is true.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is where that verse is, right?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I am now alive in Christ, and it it's that spirit.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: I had a dead spirit, now I have the Holy Spirit who is alive, right?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And is working inside me, bringing new life, bringing new life, and I always tell people, and I've said this on the podcast in the previous books that we've been through, it's an inward, outward change.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an outward, inward change that one some people want you to believe.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I'll just change my behavior and I'll come to you, God.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's a that's the pharisaical pathway, right?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is right what Jesus says.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: He says, uh, you guys are whitewashed too.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: You look good on the outside, but inside you're full of death.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: And to be transformed, to have have the Holy Spirit living inside of you, it starts inside out.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it it does affect your behavior, but it it it takes time, it's a process.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing when I first became a Christian, I was a chain smoker.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't smoked cigarettes, Devin, since what, 2000?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like that's long, that's a long time ago, right?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I used to curse like a sailor.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't anymore.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that inward.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to say that if you do those things, you're a bad person.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: It just those were things he changed in me.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: In that inward, outward change to reflect his spirit.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's almost inevitable, right?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you are truly being transformed from the inside, it will affect your behavior on the outside.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: It just will.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it'll slowly take over these different areas of your heart.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's this great um, I can't remember the author.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's a little small book, but it's called um My Heart Christ's Home.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: And the concept is really simple.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, as you invite Jesus into your heart, as you invite him into your home, you know, the first time, Scott, you have me over, give me a glass of water, let me hang out in the living room.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: But you like, you don't let me in the back room, right?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's off limits.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: And we do the same thing with Jesus sometimes, right?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: We we invite him into the living room and say, Well, thanks for stopping by and we'll see you next Sunday.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: And but the more and more we let him into our heart, the more we let him into the spaces.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: And and the idea is there is always a dark corner that needs clean.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's always a closet that's been off limits that he needs permission to go to.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, it's it's a it's a great way of kind of visualizing it as like if you keep letting the spirit transform you, it will eventually renovate your whole house if you're to think about it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: It will, and it'll look totally different.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so then it says in verse six, raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I can't fathom that, but it says we're seated there right now with him after I believed and I had faith.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I I can't put that doesn't two plus two doesn't equal four because right now I've in the physical, all I see is the physical, right?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: But in the spiritual, that's where is saying our spirit is there with him because he put his spirit in us.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, is that correct?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I actually this is might be my favorite verse out of verse verses one through ten.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, there's so many good verses in one through ten.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know why I like this one so much, but I do.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: It it really I have uh uh a passion for um man, I think I think so many Christians don't understand what the Bible talks about in terms of uh where the story's going and what's happening, and and and even understanding what the first century believers thought, right?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so uh this verse is really interesting.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: NIV, and God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, first of all, being raised up, what what kind of language is that?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's resurrection language, right?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right, which in the first century was a very common belief, right?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: Every Jewish person believed that on the day of judgment they'd be resurrected, right?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: This is part of the belief.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: But what's really interesting, so you get this traditional like God's gonna raise us up, this resurrection is gonna happen.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you got the E D there.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Raised.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's past tense, right?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so there's the new life, right?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's the resurrection, is is not necessarily the physical.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: This is what they're thinking about.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but but this resurrection, you were dead, now you're alive.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: That is a resurrection, right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and God resurrected, raised us up with Christ, and seated us with him in the heavenly realms.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's this play on the expected resurrection that's going to come, right, but also the current resurrection that is happening.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that play.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: I just love the tension that Paul draws here.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that because we are in Christ, we are with him.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: We are we are part of the heavenly realms, which is is the kingdom of God, right?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're gonna talk talk all day about the kingdom of God, right?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: I love this stuff.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: We could probably spend an hour.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: You're fine talking about it.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Some people say, well, this is uh positional, but it just is.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's the case, but this is once you're attach yourself and you're alive in him, this is this what happen this is what happens.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's the head, you're the body.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: So you're a part of what he's doing.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh one of the things that I think is really helpful for people uh when we think about heaven is to think about heaven as God's space.
• 38:05
  unknown: Right?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: So the heavenly realm is like this is God's space.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever God's doing, wherever God is, whatever he's up to, that's his space.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: And if Christ is the head and we are the body, then we are a part of his work um in the heavenly realms, in the in the spaces.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: In the spiritual realm, which I love.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: So you've got this spiritual realm that's working against you, but you also have a spiritual realm that you're a part of.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's man, Scott, for people who just get up and like, I don't know what I'm gonna do today, I don't know what they're doing, I don't know what they're doing, man.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, such an adventure to get up each day and follow Jesus.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: I told I told someone the other day, I said, when you make that decision to follow Christ, you're on a roller coaster.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a wild ride.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: You never know what's coming.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: You never know what's coming.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so now in a good way.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that in a good way in a positive way, right?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you're seated.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now it says, so that in the ages to come, he might show the surpassing riches of his grace and kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: That kindness, grace.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about this uh last uh couple weeks ago.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: You probably like this.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Woody made this analogy.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Grace is kind of like uh us southerners love biscuits and gravy.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if I gave you a biscuit and I just put a little gravy on there, you might want to say, I want a little bit more gravy.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I give you a little bit more, but then what God does is he's like, I'm gonna give you a biscuit, and here you go.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna keep on pouring gravy, gravy, gravy.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: So you got a biscuit with the gravy, it's not the yeah, right.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like that's what grace is.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's that it it's so much, it's like his surpassing riches of his grace.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just it's endless.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying that I chase after that, right?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, if I love him, I want to do things for him.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be, I want to know who he is.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're in this relationship.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do what's Paul say, well, that gives you us the right to just go out and sin, right?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: So no, never we may be, right?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want why would you do that?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: But you do, right?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you get this grace, and it says, in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, his kindness leads us to repentance, is what Romans talks about.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, verse seven, how does it start in yours?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that in the eight right there.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that so that's what does that mean?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So my friend would say, it's very important whenever you see so that he he's he's calling me, like he'll be like, Hey, blew it, man.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just found another one.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you do a little another word study, so that, yeah, in scripture, Paul likes to use it a lot.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's in his writings, he'll say, so that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if you go back to the previous, it's like, okay, I'm raised in the heavenly places, I'm seated with Christ.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: So that so that's like a therefore.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta know what it's there for, right?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's kind of the idea.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to connect these two verses as as we can understand verse six.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, go right ahead.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, verse six, we talked about he resurrected, raised us, gave us this new life, yes, and and attached us to the heavenly work, right?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like, whatever that looks like feels like, that's what we're doing.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: Why would he do that?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like sometimes, Scott, I'm like, Scott, does God know me?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the worst.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: Why would he want to do stuff with me?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: Because let's just be honest.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: If God wants to do it perfectly, he's the right guy for the job, not me.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always telling people, I'm the most unqualified, and it might sound like Moses, right?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Leave me alone because I I can't do that.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but on paper, it doesn't make sense to us.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, but he's chosen it.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: The the scriptures are super clear.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: He wants to partner with us.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: From page one to the last bit, he wants to partner with us.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I don't have to agree with it.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: He's the boss, this is what he wants to do.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: And verse seven says, why?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: So that's NIV.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: In the coming ages, he might show the incomparable riches of his grace.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: This is all that gravy, right?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: Expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: So he wants to show who?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the coming ages.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: So your kids, your grandkids, your great-great-grandkids, uh, people you've never met, people never seen, people who listen to this podcast, right that you may never know.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like he wants to, he's done this so that his incredible grace can be seen.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: And uh one of the notes I have here is like his radical grace demands a radical response.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like yeah, when you have experienced grace upon grace upon grace upon grace, gravy, gravy, gravy.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: I love that analogy.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget a name.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like gravy and gravy, gravy, you know.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: You have to do something about it.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: And this is true in our lives, right?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: When people most people aren't like, man, my life is perfect.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: I want to thank God for it.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm let me just give my life to him.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: No, I saw somebody post uh this week about like it was like uh there's no testimony without a test.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is the idea, right?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's in these deep, hard, dark places where we experience the unfathomable grace of God that we are drawn to it.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like radical grace demands a radical response.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: He loves redemption, yeah, yeah.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: So those two verses, six and seven, are like packaged really nice.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're packaged real nice with a so that so that, and just remember so that is like a therefore, yes, it is, and like an and, like we just started in today in verse one.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: So then it says, For it says, uh, for by grace, you have.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, so is it says for grace you have been saved through faith or through faith plus circumcision or faith plus reading the Bible, memorizing scripture, faith plus no, it's just faith.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes I I think this is a where um the original language and our modern living disconnect a little bit.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: For some people they uh attach faith with just believing something.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like I believe there's a God, I believe he's good, I believe Jesus died for me.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: I believe right it's it's um it's a mental exercise right like I believe it and maybe it's I believe it here and I believe it here.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: But the challenges in the daily living um people say I believe this thing but you would look at their lives and go no you don't you don't because you you're not trusting it and the way I like to think about that is like this chair I'm sitting in like Yeah I I gotta put my weight on it.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like I got to depend on it.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: I got to rely on it.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I sat down I believed this thing was going to hold me if I if it if I couldn't trust it it would have broken right underneath me and I'd have to apologize and buy a new chair.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: But this idea of faith is really two components.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's mental belief but it's also actual trust it's action on it.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now you don't have to do things but if you don't do anything then do you actually believe right this is well you can sit on your sofa and eat bonbons right you can this is you can but it's probably not a good thing right exactly um the godfather of faith it was it Abraham yeah it was declared he was declared righteous because of his faith but if you go back in chapter twelve he was asked by God said hey I want you to leave your area with your family and I want you I want to have this relationship basically is what saying in those first three verses you've ever trusted ever I know you've grown up here I know you're an old older person you have a wife and I want you just to go grab your family pack it up pack it up let's go leave you've never been before and never been before right it'd be like okay I've never left the state of Indiana all right that's probably him right and now I want you to go to this country that I promise I'm gonna give to you as an inheritance and you'll be a father of a great nation yeah and then many nations will come to know you or come to know me because of you.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: All right if Scott if you make if you made let me say if you made an offer to a hundred people he said hey will you pack up your stuff and go how many people are taking Scott's offer on this just probably not that many.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: Nah maybe one crazy person.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: What crazy person?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: But if you explain this to your wife Devin said hey God told me today we're packing everything up we're gone what do you think uh she's she's gonna have some questions right a hard time getting on board with that I think yeah but so he obeyed what God asked him to do he had faith that he's talking he had faith that he's talking to the capital god not the little gs of who they worshiped around him at that time yeah and he obeyed he showed obedience he had faith so yeah we can sit here and you say well I have faith and you're good but you're gonna show there's gonna be some outward showings of that I do agree with you Devin for it is by grace you have been saved through faith your faith is what you believe and how you live out that belief right and it's uh it's not the works it's not checking things off no but it is the I truly believe this thing because I've I've put my weight on it I've trusted it I I really believe Abraham's such a great example I'm glad you went there it's like no I packed it all up and I put all my trust in him dude he that's it and you can read a non-canonical book just a little side note he actually before then went in and destroyed all his dad's idols and little g's and the town like was going to come after his dad because his dad was a a uh highly regarded figure in the town and those little idols those little things weren't there no more so you get this impression that he had made some things like challenged his dad like hey there's this bigger God yeah but then God chose uh then he had this relationship Abraham's a great guy to uh to look into says and not yourselves it is a gift of God it's a gift you can unwrap it or you can leave it under the tree I don't know why you'd want to leave a gift under the tree right right Devin like at Christmas if I said hey Devin I got a gift for you under my tree man are you just gonna leave it there or are you gonna actually open it and enjoy it I'm I mean if it's got my name on it I'm opening it I'm gonna enjoy it for sure.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right so anyway says uh says not as a result of works so that no one may boast for we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared pre uh beforehand so that we would walk in them back to walking or back to that whole the whole walk verse one through verse 10 it's bookends right bookends right I love that it's walk right so well we'll just digest this a second it says not as a result of works again Abraham was declared righteous because of his faith yeah not the choices he made but he he believed in this invisible God and it was like okay you're the capital G-O-D I want you to be the Lord of my life and you do see that change from God to Lord in the text in Genesis it's it it goes it flows back and forth but it wasn't because of he of his choices it was because of his faith but it was like if I if it was about that right well I've memorized 30 verses this year I've not missed one time Devin at PCC since I've been coming you're you're one of our favorites so you get the gold star.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have read my Bible every day.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah that's like boasting isn't it yeah I and I think here here's a little bit of the tension point for us too especially how we communicate with people who either don't know God or or kind of just know about God but they don't you know they don't really they've not experienced him they've not um dug into his word the spirit hasn't really gotten a hold of their heart yet you know like I think sometimes what's communicated we got bad PR I think as Christians I think we're bad at this sometimes like what people think is like oh it's about being a good person it's like well no um let's verse one we're we're all dead in our transgressions we're all without excuse right yeah man we're all a bunch of what do you knuckleheads that's knuckleheads that's us so I think part of the problem is we the the packaging around following God or being a Christian is be a good person do good things which actually is I said it earlier like it's a very Pharisaical way of looking um at how you live and if if if you're listening to this and you're like what does he mean by that just read about the Pharisees in the New Testament.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus comes after them over and over and pretty harsh and it's not because they weren't quote unquote good people they did all the quote unquote good things.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: But the text Jesus says over and over your hearts are far from God.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like and this is that difference between an outward transformation and inward transformation.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: If you start with oh hey uh I believe mentally in God so I want to be a good person so I'm gonna start doing all the things uh I'm gonna worry about works is what what Paul's talking about here you're going to miss the heart of what Paul's talking about.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well if I wanted to be your friend Devin I'm probably gonna want to spend some time with you.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I'm gonna be like okay what is what's I'm gonna call Devin today, right?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna want to know my friend that's the same thing with God.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah if I want to know my father more and I want to know who Christ is what the Holy Spirit is what do I do?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to I read the word because it's alive and the spirit is moving in the word yeah I can read this next year and it might something might pop off the page differently because the spirit is revealing something different to me.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's but it's like that I I didn't mean to cut you off but it it's it's if I want to get to know someone if that's important to my life then I want to spend time with that person.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think another way to think about this Scott for us too is um especially if you're new or if you know somebody who's new to this this God thing Jesus thing um it's not the goal to become a good person.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's the goal to become the person that God made you to be yes and being the person that God made you to be will be a better person than you are today.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's just part of how that works.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like I want to understand God's heart and I want to be more and more like him and by doing that the outward stuff gets taken care of.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well it's kind of like Ezekiel says he we had a heart of stone now he gives a heart of flesh yeah yeah so is that new heart it's that transformation and it starts with the heart Devin right yeah he exchanges my heart and uh I want to do things out of that heart.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I love what he does in verse 10 just back to what we're reading.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like yeah he says um again he talked about this thing that's happening and what God's done through grace and and our faith in what God's doing verse 10 for we are God's handiwork.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: This is NIV created in Christ Jesus there's a purpose to do good works.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of good works well the ones that God prepared in advance for us to do and part of part of what I really just really grab onto here is this idea that salvation is the beginning and then there's this transformation into someone who has a new purpose and a new life before how was it your yours was worded walking again right like yeah it says prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay so before we ever met Jesus before we knew who God was before we understood the story of what God is doing in this world Paul says we were dead in our transgressions.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_03: We walked in a way of death and he lands with now that you've been saved by grace you are a new creation.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: You have been transformed to walk in a new way and that new way is the way that God prepared for you.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_03: There are good things for you and this is I told you earlier about how excited I get about man there's just so much good stuff to do every day.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: There is and uh that's the exciting thing about following Jesus it's not like oh man I failed again.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's like no I got to have this conversation I got to pray with this person.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: I got to use my gift in a new way I never have before or you're like oh man I want to do that again.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's like um when did that transformation happen to you?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man you know what uh it's kind of I grew up like my story's not that flashy or crazy but it's interesting I think yeah go ahead I grew up in church um my family were Sunday morning Sunday night Wednesday night I mean we were there sounds like uh the the way I grew up yeah okay uh when I was a little kid I was in the the program was called Whirly Birds you memorize scriptures they give you little pens on your vests mine was the RAs Royal Ambassadors okay cool that's the Baptist thing okay so go ahead um and you know I I loved it I mean I I loved the people were around I I enjoyed church um but you know I got baptized because it's what you did I I I think I was more interested in the communion at the time than I was I just yeah I'm old enough and I kind of wonder what that's like and okay and uh that's kind of where it started was I was always in church I grew up in church um it wasn't until I was about in high school that God got a hold of my heart and just it's kind of I think the big thing that happened for me was I fell in love with the scriptures and I think you can tell I mean we sit here and talk about it.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_03: We can do this all day.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well I don't know if you know this uh a little side note generally when I have guests on it could be three people but tonight and then in the last couple of times it's just been me and the other person.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: So generally about the 45th minute is usually where we make the transition.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Tonight it was about the 55th just because we love talking about the scripture you and I love talking about the Bible there's so much good stuff in there.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said before every time you approach it it is alive and active and the spirit pushes and pulls on your heart in different ways he did before and so he did that in my life.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: I had great youth leaders I had you know this is one of the reasons we believe in student ministry and we love it so much is because when you're a student you your parents are the dumbest people you ever met.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so you need some other good adults in your life right we're saying the same things pointing the same direction and I had that and uh God got a hold of my heart and uh about when I was going in my junior year I felt this call into ministry and I thought man I'll I'll never love doing anything other than this and in junior year in high school in high school yeah this is weird because Woody who was on talked about the first week he uh two weeks ago when he was on the first time part one he shared it was in high school yeah and it was about the same time.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: God got a hold of my heart okay and um at that point I started like okay uh at at the time I was like really interested in school and my grades and I I started pivoting and going, you know actually Scott the last time I had a math class was when I was junior high school because you know they don't do like uh Bible math classes in Bible college.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh they don't they don't you know okay it's uh you know it's qubits and stuff like that but uh oh yeah qubits yeah you can you explain never mind well that's the different I have to look that one up okay all right but God got a hold of my heart and um you know I went to Bible college I did the thing I I got married and started ministry and um I was faithful and then one day uh my wife said I don't want to be married to you anymore and I was like what right I I I it was so hard I fought for that marriage I tried really hard to make it work and what's really interesting about relationships is if the other person doesn't want to do it there's nothing you can do.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: No you can't do it.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: And um you know I was left uh you know in order to try to save my marriage I left my ministry and said hey I'm gonna go focus on this and and try to fix this and uh I was left with uh a life that was in shambles and um I I really wrestled with God in that season.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: I I said things I can't say on this podcast you know because I was that upset and angry and hurt and disappointed because I Oh I'm supposed to tell you you're not supposed to supposed to say those things to God.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: You'll bleep them out right like it's totally fine.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I was honest with him you know I shared my heart um you know David is very honest in the scriptures I felt like you know God you can handle you got big shoulders I'm telling how I feel and uh in some ways I felt like he owed me because I'd been so faithful to him and um you know it was such a challenge um but on the other side of it like I there really was this moment where I was like I'm either gonna head back or I'm gonna go the other way and I'm gonna be done like I'm I I felt in some ways abandoned by God.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um but he continued to prove himself faithful and um he's blessed me so much I there's so many moments where I'm like all right God I see what you were doing.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: I know I know what you're up to and uh I'm so blessed.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know Leah you mentioned her earlier my wife is just such a perfect partner um you know not not just in raising our family but in ministry.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't have that before that never really would have been a possibility.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: And we have like we're coworkers in the kingdom and it's so much fun.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: So much fun to watch her use her gifts and and to walk alongside her and encourage her.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so we love that.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um yeah I've just um that that was the hard season of my life but but God really I think throughout all of it I've I've maintained a love for the scriptures and that has always been like my desire has always been to help people fall in love with the scriptures because I feel like if I can remove all the barriers for them the things that get between them and God if I can help them hear his spirit help him them hear him like they're gonna be fine right um most people when they come face to face with God um i again radical grace demands a radical response I think I think it's where people go and so um kind of made that my life work and uh it's it's looked different student ministry for a long time managing people and doing other ministries and and now leading uh a church staff and a church and uh man God's just good uh so good and uh I'm very thankful for the story of of how we are where we are today.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: So in that um moment where you could have gone either way was there anyone that came along you came alongside you and was like pushing you to make the right decision or or no you were just like oh it was just a conversation that I felt like God was I didn't want to go that way.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to do this.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: No there were definitely uh a few godly men who were in my life um and I think the greatest thing was like they they were patient with me right they walked with me in my pain walked with me in my sorrow they let me feel my feels right but they kept encouraging me um you got to hear one of them a couple weeks ago at church came and spoke his name's Fred Schmidt great friend of mine Scott Ferguson uh some other guys who just yeah just were always in my corner right they knew what I was going through was real and it was hard it was it was dark um but they kind of just kept me close enough that I didn't fall off the deep end you know um yeah I've said this before our lives aren't to be lived alone yeah and we need friends in our lives that we can go to in our tough seasons that can be right there and support you also build you up maybe tell you things that you might not want to hear but things that'll push you to be greater right yeah and it's really hard for people I think to find those people and when you have those people you cherish those and that's that's great that you had um people that were doing that for you.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: I I think it's a great you know it's a great observation to remind people too like when you're in your when you're in a dark season or a hard season like you need people people who love you and who like you said going to be real with you um and uh will encourage you to do healthy things good things you know um sometimes that's getting it out and sometimes it's getting your butt back in church right doing what you need to do or just getting around other people yeah absolutely because one thing that I think evil forces don't like is when you're around other people they're rather have you by yourself or alone isolation is the worst thing just my opinion I'm not a psychologist or anything didn't go to school but a lot of times being alone isn't a good thing.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um well that's awesome thank you Devin for coming on the uh podcast and talking about Christ today Jesus the good the mercy the riches that we have through him um I hope you were highly encouraged by listening to this I hope this uh prompts you to if you're walking in him uh maybe this uh prompts you to go a little deeper in that and pursue him if this was something that you listened to the podcast and it prompted you to come back to him um that's awesome and if you didn't know that you were dead and then you can be alive and you want that relationship I uh made this point last time is it's real easy there's no magical prayer or anything it's just hey God I recognize I'm a sinner and I need you in my life it's that simple right Devin there's no like and it's that transformation repentance turning away and then connecting yourself to others that can bring you along in this faith journey to show who God is who Christ is and finding that great uh church family or just people church I mean believers they're gonna love on you and uh that's I'm sure Devin's experience anybody that's been on the podcast that's their experience um and uh thank you for listening I hope you uh come back next week to listen I hope you like subscribe and share the podcast again we're on many of platforms Apple Music Spotify YouTube uh and we're on all some podcasts uh platforms I don't even know just it we're on those as well so I hope you uh enjoyed it and Devin there's this crazy thing that I say at the end of each podcast you asked me because you said you looked it up when I first uh gave you a text Devin it was pretty funny Devin I said K Y E O J Oh yeah and Devin will look this whole acronym up and so the next time we met Devin's like all right man dude you gotta tell me what this K Y E O J thing is is keep your eyes on Jesus Devin now I hear it all the time I see it all the time K Y E O J Keep Your Eyes on Jesus what does it say?
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: Keep your eyes on Jesus yeah K Y E O J man and I hope you guys come back next week and listen love you guys have a great week