Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 345 - You Dirty Rat Fink!

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 345 - You Dirty Rat Fink! · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Yo yo, it's your boy, the Tesla King helon mosque.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The boys always make my rocket shoot straight up. No homo,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you bout to listen to the number one JFK related
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: podcast on planet Mars. Now plug in your neural link
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: for two numb nuts who aren't a waste of government spending,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: The Triple B and Joe By.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Gears up to the job job and Rave and and
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Joby rapunjo Red, then job Joey and Ram and then
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: show me scrap dote job Brad.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Shame, j.
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: Shallam Joe kill we and here we go, Here we go.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Indeed, welcome to episode number three hundred and forty five
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: of the Longoming Podcast. And yes, for some reason, I'm
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: looking a little orange this evening, like like our commander
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: in chief. Apparently I have eight too many Cheetos recently,
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Joe and I'm an orange hue. I can't shake it.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: I don't mind.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: I have a white light on me. I don't know
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: where this orange and this is coming from. I'm seriously,
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: I'm a white. I'm like pasty white in real life.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: You know, you never know it though, But anyway, recently,
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: sir no, no.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Did they put us a sun roof in the warehouse?
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: No? No, I'm like stuck in a cubicle eight hours
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: a day now. So maybe it's all the fluorescent lights.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know. But anyway, we're here, it's Friday night.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: We are live and in living color obviously the wrong colors. Uh,
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: and on time this week. Yes, we are on time
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: this week, hallelujah and d no issues. So let me
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: knock on wood. And before we get started, I mentioned
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: it Wednesday night, but we're gonna mention it here for
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: everybody to hear. One of our researcher friends, Ted Rubinstein,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: passed away last weekend after uh, pretty nasty sickness. I
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: guess you would call it. You know, it's always sad
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: of our friends, friend of the show and passes away
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: you know, before they before they should. You know, Ted
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: was a great guy. He would help anybody with anything,
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: you know, just a wealth and knowledge. You know, gone
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: way too soon. So rest in peace, Ted.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it was only our own
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: mother to Rob wore. I think he popped in the
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: chat and we were like, oh.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, Well last month he literally like posted
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: an old episode of the Logoming podcast, and I was like,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: where did that come from? But uh, you know, great dude,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: and uh you know we we mentioned in members only.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: We're gonna mention it here again for everybody to hear.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: So sad times, but you know, old Ted lived a good,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: long life and he was a good dude, and now
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: he knows the truth.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Joseph, I hope, so, I hope some of us are
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: getting closer to it.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't. I'd rather live for a while.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: No, I mean closer to the truth.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: I mean we are even closer to death.
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: And yeah, but to your point, Rob, I first hurt
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: ed on the Dallas action. I don't know how many
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: years ago, and I'm just happy that there are hours
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: and hours maybe maybe over a hundred. I don't know
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: how many hours, dozens and dozens of hours memorialized there
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: of his knowledge and specifically on on mafia matters. Definitely.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think there's hundreds of hours, but.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, dozens myself.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: You want me to Oh well, Rob, I can't hear you.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Oh now I can.
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: Back up a couple of sentences, sir. I don't know
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: if anywhere else that was me or.
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: Everyone oh no, are looking kidding me?
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Now? I can I mean, can you hear me now? Now?
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: I can't give me one second? Right? Maybe I got
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: a loose wire somewhere. Hold on, m yes, I can
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: hear you now.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: You just went you did for a couple of seconds.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it was just me or the
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: chap can confirm it was just me.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: I can't know. Yes, okay, anyway, rest in peace?
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: Ten yes, yes, yes, and Rob we had uh before
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: we say hi to everyone. We had the double B
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: coming in hot shifting five members spook membership levels.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: Double B thanks to double B. Who who all benefit benefited?
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Let's see all right, hopefully Joe did not again.
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: I already benefited last week, but I gave it back.
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: I gave five back then I did week. I took
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: a week off pre mode benefited. Sweet Clay maybe Clay
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: maybe Clay.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Bertrand we don't know, mister Clai Barchin.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: Mister Charlie, whyman Charlie, Hello, Charlie, Stephen Rowe Rose, I'm
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: sorry not Steve Brough.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and John again, well you are the lucky in
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: the world. Yeah, that's our friend.
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: Jill wait Lin back, did it got it another one. Yeah, oh,
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: I didn't see the fifth one.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: He is packer Jack.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: Oh right, he is, Yes, so funny thing about uh uh,
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: mister Lindback.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: I am working on setting up my.
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: Full time background right in the new office there, and
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: I was putting a bunch of books in the background,
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: and where was Skip was one of the books. I
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: was like, I'm going to feature this with Bloody Treason,
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: with prayer Man, with the Oswalt puzzle and I was
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: Castro's prisoner, and I was like, let me just showcase
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: this for now. And I thought of John when I
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: did that.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: So good to see you here. Through the grapevine that
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: he's possibly working on a new book called Who Would Skip?
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: I think, Oh, so we're gonna have to have John
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: Beck of course. So I'm sure he's done plenty of
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: research in the past year and a half, Yes, that
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: we need to know about, Yes, for sure. Yeah.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: I've been looking forward to having him back, and I
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: know it's been a busy year for him as he
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: took I don't know what to call it, a interest
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: or controlling interest or some type of ownership in the
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: dB Cooper con.
• 9:05
  Speaker 6: And all.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: Have happened to a better guy, that's for sure.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, John's a great guy and a friend of the show,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: and we will be chatting seam sir. All right, so Joe,
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: welcome in the folks. There's one of them in here, so.
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sure we have Let's see, we have Trey in here,
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: who I think is going out to dinner. But as uh,
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: I had to.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Check in though, we had to check.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: Yes, I appreciated I was messing with him. I was like,
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: I'm going to deduct a super spy emoji from you,
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: and granted I can't do that. He took it seriously,
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: but uh, we love.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Rank higher in the chat than Trey. Yes, you can
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: always take that to the bank.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Zendar sixty one is here. I believe I see
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: the double be, said I to him. Mister paul Cummins,
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: Tiny dancer is here, Tiny Miss Paula Jane.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: How are you, ma'am?
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: She's doing her grand grandma thing this week. I'll catch
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: you on replay. Yes, I was about to say, if
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: they were listening, Paula, we would have to keep a
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: peach thirteen, which is hard for us to do sometimes.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: But thank you for catching Yeah, Sally is here, Hello, Sally, Sali, Where.
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: Hid to the double Bee.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: The Thundernust is in the chat as well. Yeah, yeah,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: mister James Smith.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: James Kay, yes, and uh mister Scott Edwards who lives.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Uh Southwest?
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: Oh uh asteroid coming hoorrah so am I mm hmmm yes,
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: Bobby Thundernounts.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: How are you, sir?
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Mister Random Brooks back again, Let's do it and uh yes,
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: good mister Brooks. Uh Claude Williams. And of course Aunt
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: you Deane.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, Uh, proper greetings to Aunt you Dene and your daughter.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: Uh Lee from uh the Bloody Benders, of course.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Lee, always a pleasure set. Uh.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: Mister Jack Taylor, of course is here. He said he
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: can't hear the triple B, which I think was referencing
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: I'm going back in the chat, so it wasn't only me.
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: But I'm glad we have that resolve now, so that
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: makes me feel a little better.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: I think I had a Lucy goosey connection here, Joe.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I think it's fixed now.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: Hey, it happens, man, Like I said, we before the
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: members only I logged in and Rob's mouth is moving.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: I'm like, huh huh, I could hear him. It's just
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: it just happens deep state.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: But or just.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: Or it was my fault, he said, Dirty Joe with
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: his free Ruby shirt. Rob It came in finally, Kalla loojer.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: I was thinking of.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: Doing it on Wednesday, but I wore my other TLG
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: shirt I ordered, but I wanted to save this one
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: for for for tonight.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, free Ruby.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, free Ruby. She is over here already sleeping.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: Looks like.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: Mister j s V six fifty lo, and I think
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: that is it, sir.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: And real quick. A special happy birthday shout out to
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: the double B Brandon. So buddy, happy birthday, my friend.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: You were very giving one your birthday and last week
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: as well, So thank you so much.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: Yes, always giving. I saw congrats Brandon. I didn't see
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: the comment that he said that, but yes, of course one.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Of js V six fifty is up in the house. Yeah,
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Trey is on his way to love Field to greet
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: the President and the First Lady Trey. Safe travels, Happy
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: travels to love Field. Watch out for those pistol secret
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Service ations that did not get to ride on the limb.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm oh, and Tiny is saying she she got
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: I know Tiny has been feeling a little under the weather.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: So I hope you were feeling better. I got my
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: free ruby merch in three days.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I get. I think she meant to say they're good.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: So yes, I like in Tiny to Dean Andrews later
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: up in the hotel do in a few state, very
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: medicated on Wednesday night.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Yes, but of course Tiny was the one that came
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: up with the phrase ruby. But Tiny came up with
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: free ruby.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: I think she pulled that out of Oh Rob.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: I think it was the free Brittany Britney Spears thing
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: when she was under her. Can you hear about this
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: under her?
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Just leave her out of it?
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: Okay, I think that's where it came from. Yeah, ruby
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: is free. That's all that matters.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, Hell, Elijah, good Lord, Almighty. All right, let's kick
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: this bitch off. Joe. All right, going back aways, folks,
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: as we sometimes do here on the show. When I
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: first I came across a little something interesting from first
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: generation researcher by the name of someone that Joe thought
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: was someone else. So we're going to clear up any
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: confusion before I get started. So, Joe, if you could
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: tell everybody who Richard Sprague was not the guy that
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: was in the HSCA, but the first generation researcher, right please.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: And this is why I get confused on purpose, sir.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: It's because so I can give all this context to
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: our listening audience, of course. But no, I mean that
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: is a very interesting coincidence.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Don't you think it's a weird name for you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: not too many people are named Dick Spray.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So I'm just going to read the first
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: paragraph for two here. Richard Spray was born in nineteen
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: twenty one, graduated from Purdue and in nineteen forty two,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: and after the Second World War, was employed as an
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: engineer at Northrope Aircraft and did a bunch of other things.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: In nineteen sixty six, Richard Sprague Dick allegedly or more
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: I guess a better well known began as we research
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: into the photographic evidence associated with the assassination of John F.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Kennedy.
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: And I am reading from Artica's educational right now, and
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: according to not to confuse it, Dick Russell the Love Muscle, Yes,
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: Sprague was quote the leading gatherer of photograph photographic evidence
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: about the Chemedy assassination. Sprague served a year as a
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: photographic expert advisor in the investigations conducted by New Orleans
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: District Attorney Jim Garrison, and had amassed and analyzed a
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: majority of the known evidence on film by nineteen sixty eight,
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: when he co founded the Committee to Investigate.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: A Sentence otherwise known as the CIA. Yeah.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: Did Fencer Waald co found that too?
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: Uh? He was possibly in on it? Yeah, I think so, man,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: I think there was a group of them. Yeah.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that that is an interesting letters there acronym. But
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: by nineteen sixty eight, Sprague established Sprague Research and Consulting
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: for Computer Information Systems Consultation and later worked as a
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: full time consultant to Battil Memorial Institute.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: But I didn't know this rock.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: I mean, he came out with a book, The Taking
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: of America in nineteen eight, and in this book he
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: names the following as being involved in the assassination of
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: John F. Kennedy, William Seymour Clay Shaw, David Ferry, Guy Banister,
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: Lewis M. Bloomfield, Lauren Hall, Lauren Lawrence Howard, Harry, Dean
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: Richard case, Naguel Sergio Orcocia Smith, Carlos Prio, Armanio Diaz, Garcia,
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Jim Braiding, John Howard Bowen alias Albert Osborne, Ronald august Enovich,
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: who was an Inner Pen member, Mary Hope, Emilio Santana,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: Fredley Chrisman, and Jim Hicks. He died in nineteen nineteen
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: ninety six.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, but I did not know he came.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: He was the.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: One that gave Jim.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: Garrison or the photo of the three tramps or one
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: of them.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: You are correct, sir. And not only that, but as
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: early as April first, nineteen sixty seven, he sent Jim
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Garrison a little compendium here that we're gonna run through,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: detailing his theory and analysis of a lot of the
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: photos and films taken in Daly Plaza. And like I said,
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: this is April first, nineteen sixty seven, right, so less
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: than four years after the assassination, and he's sending this
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: to Garrison, and the introduction goes little something like this.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: So Ever, since the twenty six volumes of evidence were
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: published by the Warrant Commission and the assassination of President Kennedy,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: researchers in New York, Maryland, California, Pennsylvania, and Texas have
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: been analyzing the evidence in minute detail since that time.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: In October sixty four. A great amount of additional evidence
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: has been placed in the assassination files in the National Archives.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Some of the researchers have attempted to find out whether
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: a conspiracy existed purely through analysis of the photographic evidence.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: These include, principally A Raymond Marcus from Los Angeles, Harold
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Wiseberg from Hyattstown, Maryland. A Lillian Castelano from Los Angeles,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: A David Lifton from Los Angeles, and myself. The basic
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: tenants with which this group have approached the situation is
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: that photographs, when properly interpreted, do not lie. If the
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: collection of movie films, both professional and amateur, television tape
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: recordings made from sixteen millimeter film, and still camera photos
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: taken at the time of the assassination can all be
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: obtained in their original form and properly analyzed, it is
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: possible we will ascertain the truth about what happened on
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: November twenty second, sixty three. If there was more than
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: one assassin, these photographs may actually show identify and trace
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: the real assassins. His conclusions as of April the first,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: nineteen and sixty seven. In my analysis to date, which
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: has utilized the work done by Ray Marcus Weisberg, Castellano,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: and Lifting, plus some of my own work. The following
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: conclusions can be drawn with a reasonable degree of certainty.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: Joe.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Number one, the shots came from more than one direction.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Agree or disagree.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: One hundred percent Agree Agree.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Sprague is vague. I like that, Scott, Well, he's gonna
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: get a little more detail here. Just hang on, hold tight,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: We'll get there. Number two. There were at least two,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: probably three assassins firing shots. What do you think, Joe,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: at least two?
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: I agree?
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Number three. The first shot was fired before the pruder
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: fame the pruder frame Twoho two, most probably at frame
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: one eight nine. It is improbable that this shot came
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: from the depository sixth floor window. The large oak tree
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: was between the sixth floor depository window and Kennedy at
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: the time of the first shot. Also, the Hughes film fery, well, yeah,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: when I get done reading it. Also the Hughes film
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: shows no rifle in the sixth floor depository window and
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: no person in the sixth floor depository window from approximately
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: one minute prior to and up to six seconds prior
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: to the first shot. Agree or disagreed to?
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: I mean I was trying to get you to break
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: it down. I think there was a shot fired. I
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: don't know what what frame it is when when Kennedy
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: came past the sign and was kind of holding his neck.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: I'm not a Zupprouver film frame expert, yes, and I
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: don't think that shot could have came from the TSP.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Agreed. And as far as what he says about the
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: Hughes film, I don't know. I mean, I'm like these
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: cats used to like blow these fucking films up and
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: frames and like go in there with like a jeweler's
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: you know deal, and sit there and you know, look
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: at these minute details, something I've never done. Now we
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: can do that today by blowing things up on the
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: computer or whatever on your phone. Not going to be conclusive.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: It's not going to be conclusive. I mean, I've seen
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: the huge film. You know, who knows if you're being
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: able to see a rifle or not in the window
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: or somebody sitting there right. It's it's just hard to say.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: But according to him, that's what he says. And before
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: the first shot was most probably fired from the grassy
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: nole from a position between the fence, excuse me, in
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: the stone ball or from the couple of it most
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: probably hit Kennedy in the throat.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: Yo, I can't say that the first shot came from
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: the knoll. And what it makes me think that the
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: person behind the knoll, and I think there was one,
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: would not want to give up his positioning that early.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: I feel like it would be like the last option
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: type of thing.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Does that make sense? Well, I think if you believe
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: that the first shot was indeed to the throat, that
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: it had to be from the front. The question is
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: was it from the grassy knoll, was it from the
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: closer to the overpass, or was it from the south knoll?
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm just not I'm not sure, and
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: I don't think anyone sure.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: And just from you know, what I've seen and looked
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: at over the years think and what the Parkland doctor
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: said that the throat shot was a frontal entry, right,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: you know, which tells me that it couldn't have been
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: shot from behind, So it had to come from somewhere
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: in the front. And I'm not convinced that a bullet
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: went through the windshield either. Some people say, oh there
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: was a hole, Yeah, Well, I don't know. I've never
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: seen through and through a hole, But.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: So I don't know, possible, not as uh, not as
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: confident as the other questions.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: On that the second shot most probably was fired at
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: about frame two two six and hit Kennedy in the back.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: It could have been fired either from some part of
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: the Depository building other than the sixth floor, or the
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: second floor of the Dow Text building.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: Possible.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Now from the autopsy photos, we see that he does
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: have a back wound, and according to Cybert and O'Neill,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: the FBI guys who were present at the Bethesda autopsy,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: they said that it was a shallow wound that didn't
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: barely go up to the first knuckle when they probed it,
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: and then that it was in there at an angle
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: of twenty to sixty degrees, which is a big difference,
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: you know, when you're talking trajectory right now. Of course,
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: we've theorized on this show that if Paul Landis is
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: telling the truth about finding a bullet you know behind
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: the seat, in between the back of the seat and
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: the trunk, that this is most likely a bullet that
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: barely went in his back, right, and that either you know,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: at the time of the third shot, you know they
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: put him back in the seat, or maybe it was
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: brushed down when Jackie put her arm around him or something.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Who knows, but that could account for the shallow back wound.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: And Land is finding a bullet if he's telling the truth.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: A lot of people want to say he's a liar,
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: you know, seeking fame or whatever the case may be.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: But I don't know. It makes sense to me if
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: you're thinking that way. Now, as far as shot sequence goes,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know because I haven't got there yet. But
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know how many shots Sprayed is talking about
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: here because some people are stuck on three. Some people
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: think there was four. Some people think there was thirteen. Okay,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: like Jim Fetzer, So let's keep going here. Another shot,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: either the third or the fourth, hit Connolly in the
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: back at frame two thirty seven. This shot came from
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: either the depository building or the Dow text. It was
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: not fired by the same man who fired the second
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: shot because two shots could not have been fired in
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: eleven eighteenth of a second. So yeah, the last shot
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: or no, I'm sorry. Another shot, either the third or
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: the fourth, narrowly missed the car and hit the curb
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: on the south side of Main Street, hit the curb
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: on the south side of Main Street. It was fired
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: from the dal text at some time between the first
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: shot frame one eighty nine and the fifth shot, frame
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: three thirteen, which is the last one. I'm assuming this
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: would be the one that allegedly nicked James Tagg or
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: whatever the hell happened to his face, Whether it was
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: a piece of the curb, piece of a bullet, piece
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: of skull, you know, something scratched James Take's face. We
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: just don't know what, right. A lot of people think
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: it was one thing another. We just don't know right.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: Something definitely did, and.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: There are pictures, there are pictures of a curb strike,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: but again we don't know that it's from a bullet.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know if they took samples and tested it
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: or whatever. It could have been somebody, you know, driving
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: too close to the curb and caught it with you know,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: their wheel. Who knows. So it's true.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: His injury definitely did cause a big problem in explaining
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: the shot sequence, that's for sure.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The last shot, the fifth was the fatal headshot.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: It was probably fired from behind the stone wall or
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: from the pulla At frame three thirteen. The head motion
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: violently backward indicates this. It is highly improbable that the
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: fatal shot was fired from the depository window because the
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Dillard photo taken within eight seconds of the time the shot,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: shows that there was no person in the window. Again,
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: just because the picture doesn't show somebody in the window,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: you got to remember, this is six floors high in
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: the sky, right, people are standing almost directly below. Even
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: from a distance, you know that corner there. If somebody
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: just ducks back in that corner real quick, you're not
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: gonna see them.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, line of sight issues.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, now what you know this is gonna come up.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: And this was a prevalent theory with these early first
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: generation researchers that perhaps there was someone hiring from the
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: lattice work of the coppola, which is that structure that
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: is behind where Zapruter is standing. Like, there's brickwork with
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: holes in it, right, and it would have been easy
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: for somebody to be standing in there, rest their rifle
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: through one of the brickwork holes and you know, get
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: off a shot and we'll get there, I promise.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: Which is why he says stone wall, not picket fence.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: Well, the stone wall he's talking about is to Zapruter's right,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: a little stone wall where the walkway goes up before you.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: It's in between like the Zapruter and the wooden fence.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Right right, there's like a stone wall. It's about three
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: feet high. The photographic of I'm sorry. The photographs currently
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: available to researchers partially confirm the above conclusions. No definite
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: photograph has been found showing the dow TEC's assassin though Joe. However,
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: photographs definitely establish that the fact that the first shot
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: was probably not fired from the sixth floor window because
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: the oak tree was in the way. The dow Tech's
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: second floor window is the most likely source for the
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: curb shot, indicated by plotting trajectories in two dimensions and
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: partially supported by the underwood photo taken from the curb.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: Several photographs show possible or probable assassins on the grass,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: you know, as follows Joe.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and we got to keep in context that he
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: is dealing with nineteen sixty seven information here.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is why we're going over because it's interesting.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is early stuff, right, and just to
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: see where these guys heads were at, you know, working
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: with what they had back then. You know, they didn't
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: have access to all this documents and police reports and
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: witness statements and all those. I mean, these guys were
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: pretty much winging it and working with what they had.
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Mary, Mary Ferroll or YouTube?
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Right, this is all right? Do you have the Mormon
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: Mary Mormon photo?
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: I can bring it up in a second.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: See earlier Joe said I'm gonna put a power point
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: together for all these photos.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: Well he has a few of them, but not the
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: first one. Apparently not the first one. Well, oh, this
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: is signed. Hold on all right, just keep reading. I'll
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: bring it up in a SoCon.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Well, it's kind of important that it's showing while I
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: read this.
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: I will one second, just clicked on the eBay link.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: A Sorry, folks, God damn.
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: God, I'm gonna have to do something I don't like
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: to do, and that is go to Wikipedia.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: H Okay, I guess that's it. I don't see the
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: thumb print, but I guess that's it, all right. Yeah,
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: see the little stone wall there, ye, before you get
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: to the to the wooden fence. Yep, yeah, that's right now.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: The top right, that's the couple of with the brickwork
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: or the holes in it right where they were saying
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: that there's an assassin hiding in there, right in the shadows.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: And this is something that was brought up and revived
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: maybe ten years ago by a couple guys not worth mentioning.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: You know, it's amazing what you can find when you
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: colorize a photo and paint paint people in the shadows.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: All right, So the Mary Morning photo it disappeared. Oh
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: my god. Sorry, we're professional, I swear, h Okay. The
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Mary Morton photo shows possible faces of five men Joe
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: behind the concrete wall, the fence and the couple of
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: structure at the west end of the arcade. Man number
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: one is behind the wooden fence, Man number two is
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: in the crook of the stone wall. Man number three
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: and four are either behind the fence or between the
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: wall and the fence, and man number five is framed
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: in the lowest rectangular hole of the couple of The
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: photograph shows a possible puff of smoke at the end
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: of the stone wall. Now, how you can see all
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: this shit in this photo, I don't know. Like I said,
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: these guys were blowing these photos up to like table
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: size and going through things with you know, a magnifying glass,
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: so I don't know. You know, of course, the famous
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Badge Man images come out of this photograph, and I
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: think that's where he's saying that there's a person in
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: the crook of the stone wall. That's kind of where
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Badge Man has been seen roughly, or maybe it's Gordon
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Arnold somewhere, who knows. And I've seen other photos of
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: the of the Mormon picture that are a little clear
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: that possibly show like the top of somebody's head a
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: little further down the fence line there. Yeah, that's what
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: I was looking for. But I don't see anybody in
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: the couple of structure offhand, unless they're in the shadows.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: I don't know. You can't tell if it's part of
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: the bush or what's going on there.
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: Okay, let me see if this works better here, and
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: I can't verify it.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: That's a masterdization.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is a look. Yeah, this is not but
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: I think at at least for for purposes of showing it.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's hard to tell. I can't see anything.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you have Zapprouver here. I mean, it's obviously
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: an edited image, but I think it was a little
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: more clearer than yeah, the other one.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Still, you know, I'm not seeing any heads and faces
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: and rifles or anything like that. All right. Next up
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: we have the Martin film taken by John Martin, somebody
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: we're all familiar with, a portion of which was incorporated
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: into the DCA film entitled President Kennedy's Final Hour, shows
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: several things. It was taken beginning approximately eight seconds after
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: the fatal shot, and man number five can be seen
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: framed in the couple of doorway and moving to the
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: north side of the arcade. Apparently in the John Martin film,
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Joe men numbers two, three, and four can be seen
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: standing between the wall and the fence at the start
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: of the film, and after about a second or two
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: they begin running to the south and west along the
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: fence and at the top of the grassy slope back
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: towards the triple overpass. Man number two has proceeded several
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: feet back along the top of the slope by the
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: end of the film. Approximately four to five seconds later,
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: what appears to be a white puff of smoke shows
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: against the wall, puffing and growing in the same position
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: as in the Mormon photo. Yeah, I'm bringing it up
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: right now. Make sure you mute it.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: Yes, there is no sound.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: I was fugguring out.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: Just keep reading.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: I'll bring up well, okay, that's it for the Martin film.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: Just ription. So okay, I'm bringing.
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: Sorry, she should have been on this a little more.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people don't. I think the theory
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: has been debunked.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: Uh, so what do you say the first the first frames.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: I said, it was taken beginning approximately eight seconds. Eight
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: seconds after the fatal shot. Man number five can be
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: seen framed in the couple of doorway and moving to
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: the north side of the arcade. We're not there yet, yeah, h.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: H yeah, I guess this is a video of all
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: four copies.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: But m h.
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard to tell anything here from the Martin film.
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: And of course, uh, this Martin film is different than
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: the Martin film that we were used to. This was
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: the post office employee.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: That was working on. Like I said, he was filming
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: from the corner of Houston and Maine, and then he
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: turned his camera off and then heard the shots, turned
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: his camera back on and headed for the grassy knoll.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: That's second part, Huh.
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: I said, I can't see anything from his from.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: His well, like I said, Joe the first part. This
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: is just the first part. This is not after the shots.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Everything you just showed was not the second part of
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: his film. It was just the first part, over and
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: over and over again. I see.
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: All right, all right, well you can move on if
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: I could find something better.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Well, I can't move on unless you bring this one up. Okay.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: Willis slide number five, the color slide taken by Phil
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: Willis putt email on the spot here. I could have
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: swore earlier. Oh yeah, I'm gonna get everything ready. Oh
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: my god, Donald's word. They saw.
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: This is portals is Texas History, Phyllis, Phil Willis slide
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: number five.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, Phil Willis number five, that's the wrong one. This
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: is number three. Well yeah, it's Willis three. You need
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Willis five, number seven, the first one. There you go.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: Blow that bitch up, all right, there you go. Okay. Allegedly,
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: and this color slide taken by Phil Willis meant a
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: man number two. You can see in the crook of
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: the stone wall at the equivalent of zapruder frame two
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: to two. This is six seconds prior to the fatal headshot.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: The man is facing south about three to four feet
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: along from the position of the man's hand. The man
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: is wearing a dark black coat or cloak. Now I
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: believe this is the famous image of the black dog
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: man at the corner. Owner of the stone wall is
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: what they called it. Yes, thank you. This is what
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: happens when all right, Joe work on the next film.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: My God it A film taken by Orville Nicks during
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: the time of the fatal shot shows man number two
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: behind the wall. He's wearing a red shirt. Apparently he
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: drops down behind the wall after the fatal shot, and
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: his head begins to reappear above the wall just before
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: the sequence ends. A later sequence shows a man running
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: along the fence at the top of the knoll toward
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: the overpass. The nixt film also shows man number five
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: in the coupola doorway after the fatal shot. Mhm, so
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: let's see watched the couple up closely in the concrete wall.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: Look for a guy in a red shirt popping up
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: and down like a jack in the box.
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: Mhmm.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Once we get there, there we go.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, uh, that's this gentleman.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Here o.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Somebody else. But there is an image taken from the
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: still over h h I suppose it sho H.
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: Well, you just lagged out for a couple of seconds.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, did I now?
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: To me?
• 48:18
  Speaker 7: At least an unidentified photographer. A black and white photo
• 48:21
  Speaker 7: taken by an unidentified photographer and seen recently by Wes
• 48:24
  Speaker 7: Wise of Krild TV in Dallas shows the black figure
• 48:28
  Speaker 7: of a man behind the stone wall.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: And the approximate position of man number two in the
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: Martin and Knicks films. This photo was taken from the
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: south side, a few seconds after the fatal shot, and
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: they don't say whose photo it was. Then they talk
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: about the much More film. Marie Muchmore's camera was aimed
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: too low to show the men behind the wall or
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: in the couple. However, the puff of smoke shows clearly
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: in the same position in the Mormon and Martin, and
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: of course there's a Pruder film.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: I have the much More if you want.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: First, Sally says, who in the right mind wears red
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: to assassinate the president? The same kind of assholes who
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: were red into a bullfighting ring. Apparently, all right, what
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: are we looking at here, Joe? This is much More? Yeah, yeah,
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: she's kind of too low to see what's going on
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: there up there on the hill, right right, right, pretty
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: pretty low. Yeah, you can't see. I mean it's a
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: good shot of uh, you know, Clint Hill and in
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: the fatal headshot right before that. Yeah, okay, interesting, Oh,
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: everybody's seen as a Pruder film. We don't have to
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: go into that. He wasn't filming behind himself. There may
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: have been something caught along the top of the grass,
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: you know, as he pays to the right in the bushes.
• 50:15
  Speaker 8: Who knows, So this kind of he kind of lays
• 50:22
  Speaker 8: out this whole theory to Garrison, and of course they
• 50:29
  Speaker 8: try to be real smart about things, and then says,
• 50:32
  Speaker 8: you know that.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: He made some charts. Three other types of charts will
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: be prepared prepared Exhibits two A and B will be
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: a chart and map to show the time sequences of
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: all photographs and movies, giving the time as either as
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: a Pruter frame number or the time in seconds prior
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: to frame one thirty three or subsequent to frame for
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: eighty six. These are the first and last frames of
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: the Pruder's film sequence. The Exhibit three will show the
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: location of each of the men one through six, plus
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: any others which might or may develop from the first
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: time they appear in any photo to the last time
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: they can be seen. The photos or movie frames showing
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: these positions will be listed, thus provoking a trail for following. Photographically,
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: each of the potential assassins Exhibits four, A and B
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: will be in a chart and map showing the locations
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: of the cars and buses in the motorcade at all
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: times during their passes through daily plaza maps. It is difficult,
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: if not impossible, to analyze the photographic evidence without the
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: use of an accurate map map. Exhibit five is the
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: commission by Robert West Dallas County Surveyor. When the attached
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: version the scale is one inch equals twenty feet, the
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: position of all photographers and their lines of sight have
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: been placed on the map. So this is what he
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: sent to Jim Garrison in nineteen sixty seven. And this
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: was the type of research that was going on by
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: these high fluting thinkers, people like Lifting. You know, these
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: guys had some crazy theories. You know, I think Lifting
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: thought some guy was hiding up in a tree wearing camouflage,
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: shooting or dressed like a tree or something. I don't know.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: It's crazy, crazy shit, you know. But they didn't have
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: much to work with back then. That's why it always
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: fascinates me when you see like what Jo Kim Jostin
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: was coming up with and Mark Lane and these guys
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: mostly out of Los Angeles, working with what they had
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: and trying to you know, further a conspiracy solution in
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: the case. But yeah, I just thought that was interesting, Joe,
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: just to go over just to give everybody like a
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: snapshot of what these old school, like first gen researchers
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: were doing back then. It didn't really help Garrison much
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: in the long run. And like you said, Joe, you know,
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: this is the guy that gave Garrison the tramp photos
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: that he showed on the Johnny Carson showed everybody. Again,
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: it didn't really get him anywhere because they couldn't identify
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: these guys other than you know, what they were guessing
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: at back.
• 53:36
  Speaker 6: Then, which yeah, sturgists and you know, Charles Rogers and
• 53:45
  Speaker 6: Frenchie or whatever you know.
• 53:48
  Speaker 9: But again, anyway, fascinating, fascinating what they were able to
• 53:57
  Speaker 9: do with such little information they were trying, right and
• 54:02
  Speaker 9: just like you know, you were like, bring up this,
• 54:04
  Speaker 9: bring up that, bring up this.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: And granted I was a little unprepared. My parent point
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: got a little messy, but I was able to do
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: it in a few seconds. These people couldn't do that, right,
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: They could not pull up things.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they had to scrounge these photographs and get copies
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: somehow from some people, right, you know, And like I said,
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: they would blow these things up and go over with
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: a microscope to try to find anything that they could.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: You know, it's like what in the hell, But that's
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: what they had to work with back then. So that's
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: what they were doing. And you know, I mean think
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: about like this, like I said, this is the same
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: time as the Garrison investigation, and you know, he's trying
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: to put together a conspiracy plot and identify shooters and
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: what happened and this, that and the other. And they're
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: all kind of doing it a different concentrating on different
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: things throughout the United States. And you know, it's just
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: it's just a little window into what was going on
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: back then. And then you know, now you have TikTok. Yeah,
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: JFK researchers on TikTok. You do have some of them.
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they are fighting the good fight against the driver.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: Theory because it's on YouTube. Here we are.
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: And and asked, I mean, Rob, how often is it
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: that you have some random scuffoos that come up to
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: you and ask you if the driver did It has
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: to be once a month for me, Well.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: Not in real life, because nobody knows who the hell
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: I am in real life. I mean, the people close
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: it to me know I have an interest, but they
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: generally don't ask me about the driver. But I just
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: and nobody really asked me about the driver or outside
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: bitch slap them. Uh. But I do see the occasional
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: thing like on Facebook, you know, where somebody gets excited
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: and you know, the first time or to the case
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: and they see, oh they see a video and look,
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: you know, oh boy, it sure did look like that,
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: and they think they solved the case. It's funny.
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: I just laughed.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: I don't even argue with him anymore. It's just like, yeah,
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: you got it, you solved it. Hey, congratulations.
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: If it was if it was only that easy, rob
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: right right, we probably wouldn't be uh three hundred and
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: forty five episodes.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like Southwest, uh said. You know, these these guys
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: were on like mailing lists with each other. They would
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: like mail each other and write letters and share information
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: and anything they could find, you know, going back and forth,
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: and you know these copies of stuff. You had to
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: go somewhere to get these copies made and cost money.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: And you know people would send like self addressed, damped
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: envelopes to Wisburg and like hey, can you send me
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: this and that? And you know they would just trade
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: information back and forth and keep each other a prize
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: to their current research and anything that they found. That's
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: why the Wiseburg archives are a fascinating look at how
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: these guys operated back in the day because Wiseburg kept
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: pretty much all of his correspondence with all the various
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: JFK researchers from the time. I mean, it's all there.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: All these letters are there, you know, letters to him,
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: letters back, and it's fascinating to read. You know, what
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: these guys were thinking and how they were getting to
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: why they thought the way they did. So very interesting stuff.
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: For sure, for sure, man, And you know, of course
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: that's a hindrance. But then there's also situations where you
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: get things like the Shack Offer slides, which we have
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: used to prove that the Martin film, the John T.
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: Martin film was edited. When you get those physical type
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: of copies given to different researchers, they sometimes last longer
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: than if it was to be deleted on the interwebs
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: type of thing.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, I think you know, talking about the
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: Zapruver film too. I heard somebody talking that, you know,
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: basically what we're seeing today is a grodinized version, stabilized
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: colorized from a copy of a secret service film, right
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: because like that day, like you know, when they took
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: the proior to get his film developed and all that,
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: they made copies right away, but they damaged his original
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: film making all these copies, and this is what Life
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: Magazine got, They got the damaged copies, And I don't know,
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: it's just it's just crazy to think about, you know,
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: when you're talking about like it's a Prouder film alteration,
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: I don't, you know. I'm on the fence. I've seen
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: some things I can't explain when it comes to this
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: Approver film. But yeah, I just think it sounds like
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: a very extraordinary undertaking for nineteen sixty three to be
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: able to do that. I know they could do more
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: than you think they could back then, but I just
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: don't know how much of it, like from these cleaned up,
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: stabilized colorized versions, is it stems from that, you know,
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: like we've seen trees cutting half, or light poles cutting half,
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: or people appearing larger than they should be, or shadow
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: was not there or going the wrong way, or whatever
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: the case may be. You know, I just don't know
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: if that happened later. And when you look at these
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: early early copies, you know, they're so like black and
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: white and hard and grainy to see. You can't really
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: see good detail in them, you know what I mean.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: So it's giant catch twenty two. But yeah, that's why
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: we still argue about it to this day. Was it
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: was it altered or not? I don't know.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, one of the arguments that that I don't
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: want to get involved in because I just don't know.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: I really it's not match And I'm not a you know,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: film or photographic expert. And I'm of the belief that
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: photographic evidence on its own is never going to solve
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: this case because there's just too much gray area for
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: people when it comes to the photographic and film evidence,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: because it's all about interpretation and how you view things,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: and not everybody thinks alike.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: To Yeah, no for sure, And that's why I kind
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: of like when when we talk about the identifying certain
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: people in Dealey Plaza.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: Now, am I almost.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: Sure that DCM dark complex a man?
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: It was vital?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: Most likely? Yeah, eighty plus percent. Do I think Rip
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: robertson the picture of him? I think I'm probably eighty
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: plus percent on that. But it's so hard to quantify, right,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: It's just objectiveness. So yeah, T busy, what's up? I
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: saw that I was gonna highlighted What's Up Live from
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: the Rocky Mountains, Colorado.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: Grant tee tons uh Lee wants to know what is
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: the most outstanding things you've seen on this Prouder film?
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: Like I said, I've seen some weird things when it
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: comes to the Zapruder film, you know, like light poles
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: cutting half, or trees cutting half, shadows or weird people
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: are bigger than they should be kind of thing. And
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: I also saw like ten years ago at this conference
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: they had, and this was back when four K was
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: something like new, you know what I mean, relatively new. Yeah,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: I know this is done too. And got sat down
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: and dug into hotel room and with a bunch of
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: other researchers and people that were doing a documentary, and
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: they basis of their documentary was they had a four
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: K scan of the Zuppruiter film and it was very clear.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: But I don't know what they did to it. You know,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: they could have enhanced it in some form or fashion.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, we're now, we're in the computer age. So
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: the whatever the orange blob thing is in the Zaprud film,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: it was very evident that that was to me, shouldn't
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: have been there, like, like I said, painted in looked
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: like as well as you know, a dark black spot
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: on the back of JFK's head. I mean, and this
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: is like super nerding out, you know, in four K
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: you know, on a still of a frame from the
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: Zapruter film. So, but again, you don't know what these
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: people did with it. It's a documentary that never came out, actually,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: and they were there at the conference doing interviews with
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: Doug Horn and all these other big swinging dicks, and
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: the documentary never came out. I don't know why. So,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it doesn't take that long to
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: put a documentary together, you know, for a ten second film,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, Jesus Christ. But yeah, I don't know. All right,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: I'm gona turn it over to you, Joe. Enough of
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: of Richard Spragg Shenanigans.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, yes, the researcher Richard Sprake, and that's that's
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: definitely a coincidence for sure. But thank you for that, Rob.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: I wanted to do a little mini segment on a
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: follow up on someone you had talked about last week, Rob,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: that I hadn't thought about at least a year, it'd
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: be a little longer.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: How do you know, I haven't thought about them?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: Now that I haven't.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: Thought Okay, and at least.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: Maybe a few months after we did the Martin or
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: Martin series and that and that is Juan Martin or
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: Johnny Martin who came into contact with Sylvia Odio and
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: her sister, Sarrita Odio and you know offered you was
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: the guy from Uruguay allegedly offered them arms for jurret.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: Of course their parents were at least her father was
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: in the Isle of Pines and at Cuban prison at
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: the time. And the big issue with that situation was
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: was Lee Oswald actually visiting Sylvia Odio during the time
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: that he was supposed to be in Mexican City, Mexico City,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: And if not, who are these cuffoozas that were possibly
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: trying to impersonate him and definitely use his name a
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: couple of times or do whatever drifting they had going
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: on there. Very interesting that documents you brought up last week,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: and it reminded me of an article that we might
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: have talked about like two years ago that I hadn't
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: read in a little bit close in two years that
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: I wanted to refresh the audience on again because it
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: is fascinating and it has to do with Lawn Martin,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: Johnny Martin, Sylvie Odio Warren, Commission lawyer Leebler and some
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: shenanigans going on. And I'm so happy I found this article.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: Rob was that it is fascinating, So let me bring
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: it up here. And this is an interview by Gayton
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: Phonsie of the HCA.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: Uh gay Pals.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 4: Gayton, who was I'd definitely say one of the good
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: guys investigators.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, for sure. As Joe knows who the fawns is,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: I do know that, yes, the fauns are.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: Really he's he's an Italian skafuza.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: So I play a Jewish actor.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: That isn't my wheel race. He's still yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: he had he had great hair, right, he did, still does,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: he still does. He's still keeping wrong with that. But uh,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 4: this follows up on kind of some of your segment
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: on Father McCann last week.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and there must have been something. There's something
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: I should have titled this episode there's something about uh Sylvia,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: because it seems like everybody was trying to get in
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: this poor girl's pants, including a father who did he
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: betrayed his chastity with the Lord for this woman. So
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: it must have been worth it.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I could pull up a picture in
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: a second after I read this. It looked like it
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: was worth it.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: I hope for his sake whatever God, Joe, Hey, hey, hey, yeah, hey,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: I can't disagree with that.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 4: But so this was an interview on January sixteenth, nineteen
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: seventy six, so of the time of the HCA and
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: the index of this document. Sylvia Odio, Lee Harvey, Oswalt,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: Johnny Martin, s Rita, Odio, Eugenio, Virgilio Cescenarios, who we
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: discussed last week, Missus Connell, Father McCann, and Alpha fifty
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: six as well. So this story is it is going
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: to blow your mind, or at least the audience's mind
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: because you might have heard it before.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: This is.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: Mister Phonsie writing here. Sylvia Odio, she first heard of
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: the Kennedy assassination on the radio while on the way
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: back from lunch, and she immediately thought of the visit
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: of the three men to her apartment and the conversation
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: she had with them. It produced a tremendous amount of
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: fear in her, and she later passed out. She had
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: been under quote. She had been under mental strain of
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: marital problems and the responsibility of carrying for her four
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: children after her husband deserted her. The next thing she remembered,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: Sylvia Odio was watching television with her sister and seeing
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: Oswalt and both recognizing him as one of the men
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: who came into the apartment who had come to the apartment.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: Quote.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: We were just so scared because we both recognized him
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: immediately end quote. They both were extremely frightened and very
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: anxious about the welfare of their eight brother, brothers, and sister,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: ten children in the family, and their mother and father
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: in prison in Cuba. And since they didn't know what
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: was going on or whether or not there had been
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: a conspiracy of many involved in the assassination, they both
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: decided not to bring their experience to the attention of
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: the authorities. Quote. I never wanted to go with them.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: I was afraid.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: I was young at the time, I was recently divorced,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: I had young children, I was going through hell. Besides,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: Sylvia continues, it was such a responsibility to get involved,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: because who is going to believe you? Who is going
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: to believe that I had Oswalt in my house. I
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: was scared, and my sister Annie was.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: Very scared at the time.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: She was only fourteen, so one of her many sisters.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: Sylvia recalls when she was interviewed by FBI agent Jim
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: Hosty that he kept pressuring her, pressing her to remember
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: the specific day that the three men came to her
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: apartment and couldn't specifically remember when. Still they kept pushing
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: for the exact date. I kept telling them that I
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: don't remember the date, but I know that it was
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: in the last days of September because we were moving
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: at the time, and that we had boxes all over
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: the living room, and that in order to open the
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 4: door we had to jump over the boxes. But I
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: could swear I don't remember the day, but when I
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: read the report the Warren Commission. I found they had
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: set a day and that they had done it for me.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: I only remember it must have been the last days
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: of September, because we already at a lease for another apartment,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 4: and it was in the middle of the week, not
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: a Saturday or Sunday. Odio says she doesn't specifically remember
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: being asked about Lauren Hall, Lawrence Howard, or William Seymour,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: but she was shown numerous photographs, many even after she
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: had moved to Miami in September of sixty four, so
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: right before the Warm.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: Commission came out about a month before, but.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: Was never told the names of anyone whose photographs she
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: was shown. She recognized no one but Oswalt and Fonsie writes,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: I showed her photographs of Hall, Howard, and Seymour, and
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: she recognized none of them. I asked her about the
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: possibility that it might have been someone who looked identical
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: to Oswald, she said, when you see someone as close
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: as I'm seeing you now, even closer because we were
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 4: standing by my door for about fifteen minutes and the
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: light was just coming down upon their faces. When I
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: saw him on television, I recognized him immediately, and this
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: guy had a special grin, a kind of funny smile.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: He kept smiling most of the time. He kept trying
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: to be pleasant, but the other guys did all the talking.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: Odio remembers she specifically remembers specifically that she was introduced
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: to her that he was introduced to her as Leon Oswald,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 4: and he himself said, my name is on Onsbold.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: She says.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 5: The things she.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: Remembers most about one of the guys is that he
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: had a funny kind of forehead. It just sort of
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: went back with no hair on the side. It was
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: peculiar and hard to explain. Sylviodo has the feeling also
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: that the three men wanted her to know that they
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: were going on a trip, that they specifically mentioned that
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: they were going on a trip. She wrote her father
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: and told him of the men, but he said he
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: didn't know them and not to trust anyone. She told
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: her psychiatrist, doctor Unspuru, then at the Southwestern Medical School,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: of the incident. She wonders why answer she was questioned
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: by the FBI, they waited so long to call her back.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: It wasn't until the middle of the summer that Leebler
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 4: came to Dallas to question her. Where it Gets Juicy
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: Ladies and Chunsu. Audio asked how candid she could be
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: with me, and I said, I wish she would be
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: totally candid. She said she could say something, but she's
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: afraid she could get in trouble because it would only
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 4: be her word, although she would swear to it.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: She said she.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: Hasn't told this to anyone except of mister Martin Phillips,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: who came to talk to her about putting her on
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: Dan Rathers CBS Assassinations Special television show. She refused to
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: go on the show, but she did talk to mister Phillips.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: She said she told part of the story to Phillips,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: but he never mentioned it to anyone else, she said.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: Audio continues after Leebler questioned her for the second time
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 4: that day, so this is important. The first interrogation started
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: at nine am, the second one at six thirty pm,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: quite a difference of time there. Leebler asked Sylvia Odio
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: out to dinner. That surprised me. Odio says, but I
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: was afraid and I went. We didn't go out alone.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: We went out with someone who was supposed to be
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: Marina Oswalt's.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: Lawyer, filmmaker John Martin Thorne. Bro Hey, Now it's.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: If you look at what we're going to talk about
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: after she describes what happens, it's very similar to what
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 4: happened to Marina in DC.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: We're trying to, you know, not.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: Take her testimony seriously by discrediting her. This is the
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: exact same type of well, just a funny show real quick.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: That you mentioned Marina in d C and what happened
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: with her, and and sure, James Herbert Mark, Yeah, uh,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: I can't. I was going back through our drop box
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: and I was reading through some things and I saw
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: something I don't think I really picked up on before
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: the FBI had bugged Marina's hotel room.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 4: The Willard in DC.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, so I guess after the Secret Service left,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: that her detail left, That's when the party started, right,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: she says, you know, she went in take a shower,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: and she came back out all skimpily, you know, and
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: the liquor was flowing, and you know, they had opened
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: the doors to all three of their rooms and were
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: running all around. And I knows what was going on,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: but the FBI I heard everything. I mean, can you
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: imagine being on the FBI detail and listening to what
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: was going on in that room, Like, what the hell
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: is going on over there?
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: I would loved to be a fly on the wall
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 4: in that detail.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: But you're right, and.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 4: I believe the FBI informant was the doorman or the
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 4: manager of the Willard MMT one or whatever they said,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: reported that the secret Service service agents left and then
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: Martin Thorn and James Herber Martin moved up or moved
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: next to Marina's room, and they had the connecting rooms, just.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: Like you said.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 4: And one of those things I picked up on later
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: was that the actual informant was the hotel manager at
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 4: the Willard. And if you think about it, Rob, what
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 4: better in formant to have then hotel manager a very
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 4: swanky hotel in DC.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: Makes sense? Oh yeah, yeah, And uh, I forgot what
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say, So go on, it'll come to me.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: Oh so, yeah, I was reading, you know, it was
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: an FBI document and they were talking about that bugged
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: Marina's room in d C. And of course, the day
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: after that, I think Marina called Wanda and told her
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: everything right, and never ended up going back to the
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: Martin residence I believe. I think either Robert Oswald picked
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: her ship up or James took it to her whenever
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: she went to live with the with the Fords and County, Yes, right,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: for like, I think it was a couple of weeks.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: And then in the FBI document they bugged the four
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: residents phones and rooms, right, and then Marina on February
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: twenty fourth, this is a little over two weeks after
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: what happened in Washington with with with those with Martin
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: and them, Marina rented a house on her own in Richardson, Texas,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: and the FBI wrote in there you know that they
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: bugged that house and the phone tapped, the phone bugged
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: the house, and they rented a house right down the
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: street to monitor. And they even broke down how much
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: it cost them. It was like two hundred and fifty
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: dollars a month for them to set up this operation
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: to surveille Marina. And this kept going. I mean they
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: were bugging her, tapping her and physical surveillance, and this
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: continued until for at least a couple of months. So yeah,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: it was crazy, man. Yeah.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: No, So she comes back from DC, just to back
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: up a little bit with James Roverermartin. They had had
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: their affair at the Willard in DC. They were sight seeing.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: There's reports, you know, service reports on that they came
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: back and Robert Oswalt, based on a blow up in
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: the hotel that happened after already knew about the affair
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: as soon as she came back. Rob so he said,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: you can't stay with this guy anymore. You have to
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: come stay with me and Vonda not Wanda Veda, right,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: so whatever, his wife's anamals Vada Robert Oswolds And she
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 4: stayed with them for like two or three days and
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 4: she's like, I can't be here, and she left and
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 4: then went to Richardson. And I think that's when we
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: talked about how they had like a dust in her
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: two agents every shift, like I'm twelve hours shifts right like.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: So my question is why why the intrigue with with
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 4: what she said and what was reporting on?
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: What was she doing? You know?
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 4: And I think it just brings you brings me back
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 4: to my theory. If she was the star witness and
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: James Herbert Martin had some type of and John warren
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 4: Thorne had some type of mission, some operation to turn
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 4: this woman from grieving widow to star witness in a
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 4: couple of months. Not an easy task.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so bringing it back, bringing it back the league.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 4: Yes, who was this person that was allegedly lawyer from
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: Marina Oswald? Was it John Martin Thorn? Because this is
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 4: in Dallas, you know, and this is this is in
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 4: you now. So we're going from February to June, right,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: which is when Leebler came down to Dallas.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think he was her lawyer anymore.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: No, they was.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: It wasn't Kinsey or somebody. But I mean, this guy
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: could have they could have just miss uh stated there
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: that the guy was Marina's lawyer. Who knows. I don't know,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: but pray continue. Yes, I mean family encounter. It was
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: John Morton Thorne.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, they would have been kind of
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: added actions.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, I don't bring that back.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 4: So all right. So after Leebler questioned Sylvie odor for
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: the second time that day, he asked her to go
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: out to dinner, which surprised Odio, but she was afraid
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 4: and she went anyway. We didn't want to be out alone.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: We went out with someone who was supposed to be
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: mana Oswald's lawyer and mister ARTN. Phillips already read that
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: he Leebler kept threatening me with a lie detector test
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: also even though he knew I was under tremendous stress
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: at the time. But one thing he said, and this
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: has always bothered me. He said this to the other gentleman,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 4: I don't remember his name. He said, well, you know,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 4: if we do find out that this is a conspiracy,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 4: you know we have orders from Chief Justice Warren to
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: cover this thing up. Uh and then GATEONVONSI asked the quotations.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 4: Leebler said that Odio responds, yes, sir, I could swear
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 4: on that. At the time, she says she thought that
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 4: maybe it was a bait for her because she had
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: the feeling that they thought she was hiding something more,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 4: that she was involved with other Cuban groups perhaps, or
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 4: that she you knew more than she was saying. This
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 4: was a feeling that I got by the time that
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 4: they took me to dinner, that maybe if I had
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: a few drinks and the conversation became very casual, I
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 4: would go ahead and volunteer information. Leebler thought I was hiding.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: I wasn't hiding anything but what he said struck me.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 4: I remember I had a bloody Mary and thinking to myself,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: my god, I'm not that drunk. I had one bloody
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 4: Mary and that's all I was having. If it was
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 4: for my sake that he was saying all that, or
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 4: if it was a little game that you were playing
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 4: with me, I don't know. That's when I said to myself, Sylvia,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: the time has come for you to keep quiet. They
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 4: don't want to know the truth, so and of course
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 4: you have to keep that in the context of this
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 4: is around the HCA time. But she definitely felt she
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 4: felt afraid, but by leeblers, you know, non verbal threats
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 4: type of thing.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: But that made me angry.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 4: Sylvia says, not only that he invited me to his
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: room upstairs to see some pictures.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I bet I did go.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 4: I went to his room. I wanted to see how
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: far a government investigator would go and what they were
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: trying to do to a witness. Of course, nothing happened,
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 4: because I was in my right senses. He showed me pictures,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: he made advances, yes, but I told him he was crazy.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: Even mentioned that they had seen my picture and that
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 4: they had even joked about it. At the Warrant Commission
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: saying like, what a pretty girl you are going to see, Jim,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 4: and things like that. To me, that was but also,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 4: I don't know, anti professional. I wasn't used to this
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 4: sort of thing, and I wasn't expecting the highest respect,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 4: you know, And I wasn't expecting any jokes in the
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 4: investigation of the assassination of the president. So that's why
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 4: I'm telling you my feelings changed because I saw something
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 4: I wasn't expecting to see. I wanted to see someone
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 4: who was carrying on an investigation, who was serious about it.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: But somehow I had the feeling it was a game
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 4: to them, and that I was being used in this game.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 4: The fellow who Leebler identified as Marina Oswald's attorney, and
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 4: you're right, Rob, by this point it definitely was.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: Not.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 4: Martin Thorne had not been at her questioning, but they
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 4: picked him up on the way to dinner. He left
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 4: dinner and did not go up to the leadler's room
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: with them, as we could John Warren Thorne just kidding.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 4: He showed her all the photographs and she could only
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 4: identify Oswalt in any of them except for one photo
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 4: which I believe, Sylvia says was taken of individuals coming
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 4: out of courtroom following hearing in New Orleans concerning the
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 4: Brignier Oswalt fracas. Okay, Rob, this is where this got
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 4: interesting to me. Yeah, we have talked about the scuffoozas
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 4: that were and we have this this video we've shown
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: before of the possible Ernesto Rodriguez, Amelia Rodriguez, Frank Bartes, Brgner,
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 4: all the people that are on my short list for
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 4: who could have framed Oswalt. They're on my short.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: List, my very list.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: They're showing Sylvia Odio their pictures. Okay, so why I
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 4: don't think they were being straight with her at all.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 4: I don't think they were giving her the real reason
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: why they were showing her these pictures. But I was thinking,
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 4: and I think I mentioned this in a message to you,
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 4: the audio incident, if it wasn't Oswalt, and I probably
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 4: lean it probably wasn't actually Leon Lee Oswald, despite what
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 4: Odio says, it was the skuffoozs that frame.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: Well, would you agree with that? Yeah? If they if
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 3: they're mentioning Oswald's name, even if it's not Oswald, there
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: something that.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 4: Right, and she mentions the people she was shown were
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: of video of the people. Remember when Lee is like
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 4: kind of standing in the staircase, like looking at them
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 4: as they leave court, and he's like kind of giving
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 4: them a side eye, right, And it's like the who's
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 4: who of Cuban exiles in New Orleans, right, ci FBI,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 4: take your pick. There, they were informants for each right.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: I think they were trying to exactly figure out who
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 4: was framingly and I think that's what more they were
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 4: trying to get at, but not giving Sylvia Odeo the
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 4: full details of what they were looking for, right, right,
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 4: because if she could identify them, then that goes a
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 4: whole lot further than or far than who could have
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: framed Lee. If she could give a positive identification of them.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: She eventually said that that one of the guys was
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: definitely Eugenius Narrow, but she couldn't identify the other two, right.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 4: And it wasn't Hall and it wasn't how Right, which,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 4: of course Hall and Howard were not in the court
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 4: in the New Orleans Court building.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 3: So I think this is kind of like a.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 4: Little clue of who could have possibly framed Oswald. And
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 4: I think that's what the FBI was on, or possibly
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 4: Leebler was on. But I don't think they told Odio.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, something's up, especially if this supposedly happened
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: like the day after Oswald leaves New Orleans to go
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: to Texas. So it had to been somebody who knew
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 3: that he was moving back to Texas, right, yeah, or
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: else why that's why I go to some random chick
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: in Dallas. Right, that's a good point. That's a good point.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 4: And and we I think we speculated that there was
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 4: some aspect of drifting going on. And I think Sylvia
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 4: Odio was used to getting Cuban scuffoss showing up to
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 4: her door, especially if she was hot, especially if she
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 4: was hot. But that just came to me as I
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 4: was as I was reading that, and John says something
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 4: funny as Mike went over my head, and I want
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 4: you to explain this to me. He goes, we need
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 4: a drink game every time June works in vasuvas.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 3: What does that mean? I have no clue. And then Johnson,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 3: Joe works in.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 4: The next one. He because we need a drinking each
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 4: time Joe works.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 3: In Maybe he's trying to spell susy.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's just a word for uh, random dudes. Well,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you I'm members only, but we don't want
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 4: to get yes, yes, yes for a woman that does
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 4: sells her certain things. Skis sorry, all right, he continued,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 4: But uh, I think that is why that they were
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 4: so interested in in in showing Sylvia Odio the pictures
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 4: of these Cubans in New Orleans, all right, brings it
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 4: back to Norlens mis Asen. It's just it makes a
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 4: lot of sense to me. Why would they show her
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 4: individuals Cubans coming out of the courtroom in New Orleans
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 4: conserving the concerning the fracas if they didn't think that
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 4: those Cubans were possibly involved in in personading Oswald.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: It's just.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 4: Commense, right, the common sense to me at least. Huh
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 4: kayton Fozzie continues. Odio identified the man in the background
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 4: center left as her uncle, and she said she didn't
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 4: know her uncle was involved with Brignier. Right, her uncle
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 4: was in jail at the time. Wait, no, that was
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 4: her dad, August we Tart right. And and that name,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 4: Rob David Boylin brings up a lot. I don't know
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 4: much about him to really talk about it, but I've
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 4: heard Boylan mentioned him a ton I told her that
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 4: according to a nice Brier report, her uncle gain Ponzie,
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 4: saying this doctor Augustine Guitart, Okay, so not her dad,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 4: who was in the Cuban president at the time. His
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 4: brother admitted to being at the court. At that court
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 4: hearing in New Orleans. She said her uncle never mentioned
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 4: his involvement with Brigner, but that she knew he was
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: a fierce anti communist. She herself earlier said was associated
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 4: with the more liberal element of Manolo Ray's party and
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 4: had always been a Kennedy fan.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: Let's see Odeo.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: Said she had always wondered who the other two men
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 4: who came with Oswalt were and has always looked for
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 4: photographs of them. She says she is pretty sure that
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 4: one of them was a Mexican. Again, she mentioned the
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 4: quote weird forehead. Pansie asked her why she thought she
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 4: was selected for the visit. She said, probably because her
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 4: father was well known. He was a millionaire, of course,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 4: going back to the griff and Money who had helped
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 4: Fidel in the mountains. He transported all the arms that
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 4: went to the Sierra Mustris. He supplied arms and medical supplies.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 4: There was hardly anyone in the underground, Odeo said who
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 4: didn't know who her father was. The family was exiled
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 4: for three years when Batista was in power because her
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 4: father refused to sell his transportation business. I think it
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 4: was a trucking business, if I remember correctly. He was
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 4: described in Time magazine as the quote transport tycoon that
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 4: might be right of Latin America. She says he had
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: a tremendous amount of number of enemies, both business and political,
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 4: and he supplied the truck for the assault on the
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 4: Palace on the thirteenth of March. He went to exile
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 4: after that in Miami. Think she's talking about the tart
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 4: her uncle. If I asked if she knew Paulie, of
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 4: course from the Biopoly raid, she said she didn't, but
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 4: that her father knew almost everyone. We were very strong
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 4: supporters of Castro until we felt portrayed by him, which
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 4: of course is a very common theme with the exiles.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 4: She said she was surprised by the details of her
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 4: father's life, that it was known by these three men
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 4: who came to her apartment, the fact that they knew
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 4: where her father was in prison. They mentioned the movements
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 4: that her father had been in politically and called him
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 4: amador Odio. They said they belonged to the Jury movement
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 4: and that she belonged to the Juri movement, and she
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 4: knew she belonged to the Jury movement. I'm sorry, as
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 4: did her father. This was Manolo Ray's movement. But she
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 4: says that when she thought about it later, it wasn't
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 4: that difficult for anyone to know of her and her
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 4: involvement with Jure because the Cuban community in Dallas wasn't
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 4: that large and they all lived in about the same
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 4: section of town. Also, there had been a big rally
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 4: in a park on the on a Liberation Day, and
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 4: she delivered the invocation that was covered by the newspapers
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 4: and that the television stations, and she said the FBI
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 4: later told her it was thought that Oswald could have
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 4: been there mingling with the Cubans. That wouldn't surprise me,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 4: although it was possible. Odell later thought that the three
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 4: men knew of her because when her father had been
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 4: sentenced to prison, it was a big story in the
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 4: Dallas newspapers. It had all the information about a millionaire
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 4: and his family, and it also carried her sister si
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 4: Rita's picture, which brings in Johnny Martin. So Rita had
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 4: come to Dallas before Sylvia and was attending the University
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 4: of Dallas. Sirita is in Mexico at the time of
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 4: this interview in the seventies. She says that when the
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 4: three men came to the door, they first asked for Sirita,
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 4: and they seemed confused when Sylvia came to the door.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 4: When she told them she was Sylvia and that she
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 4: was the oldest, they said, that's who they wanted to
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 4: talk with. That reminded her of Johnny Martin quote Johnny
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: Martin came out.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 3: Of the blue.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 4: She said, that was a very strange thing. I don't
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 4: know how he got involved with my sister Serta, how
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 4: he was introduced to her. The strange thing about him
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 4: was that his family lived somewhere in the Latin American
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 4: country and he had this laundry maat this coin laundry
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 4: he operated. He would tell Siriita, hey, bring your clothes,
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 4: I'll do them for free, horrible accent. And then Serena
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 4: brought him over to the house and we started talking
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 4: about a lot of things. He was very clever and
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 4: we were very young, and soon he was telling us
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 4: he could get arms for our movement. I got contact
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 4: with Eugenio Rogiglio Cinnarios and he told me Ray was
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 4: coming to Dallas to meet Martin. So Ray of journey.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 4: Martin says she also seemed to be broke, yet he
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 4: seemed to have a lot of contacts for Latin America governments.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 4: Nothing came of the meeting between Martin and Cceinnarios because
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 4: Cincenarios didn't trust him reading Lacille. Regarding lacille' connell, she
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 4: was a Protestant who got very Protestant, who was very
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 4: involved in the Catholic Welfare Bureau, another grifting organization I
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 4: think there is, Rob. She came on very strong with
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 4: Sylvia as soon as he arrived in Dallas, and in
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 4: fact had her sponsored. In fact had sponsored her trip
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 4: from Puerto Rico. Conall had known her sister Serita.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: First and.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 4: Ms Connall was very involved with a lot of different
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 4: groups and talked to me about them. She was very
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 4: intense about the John Birch Society and was also involved
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 4: with the Russia Crucians. Rob, do you know what r
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 4: O s I Crucian is? I?
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: Don't know.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 3: You're muted. Yeah, I noticed you were quiet. Weird religious
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 3: sect you know. Uh, they're responsible for building the Georgia
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 3: guidestones that got blown up a couple of years ago
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 3: during COVID. Huh huh. Well, I had to do a
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure exactly what they believe, but it's something. Well,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 3: some message.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 4: I asked Grap. I asked Grop. I asked Grap because
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 4: I had no idea what the hell Russia Krusian was
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 4: rosicruci As a member of a secretive esoteric spiritual movement
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 4: that blends Christian mysticism, alchemy, and occult traditions. Yeah, Originating
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 4: in early seventeenth Central Europe with the publication of anonymous
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 4: manifestos like blah blah blah. It claims to offer hidden
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 4: wisdom and spiritual enlightenment through symbolic teachings and initiatory practices. So,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 4: in short, it's some weird things.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 3: It's yeah, everybody's saying, yeah, your hands, your hand was
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 3: kind of involved with some of the recrusions.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 4: Really, Frankie g what's up? Buddy just has his name.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 3: I had no idea.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 4: I just had to look that up because I had
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 4: no idea.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 3: What the hell that was.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 4: I thought that would be an interesting thing. But this
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 4: is almost done here and uh uh so Sylvia or
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 4: Lucille Connell was a very wealthy woman married to a
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 4: wealthy man, but divorced him and is not living in
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 4: Long Island, New York.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 5: But uh.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 4: Connall had gotten her psychiatrist, doctor Iron Spring, who I
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 4: mentioned earlier, who I think was the person that Odio
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 4: was seeing. She described missus Connell as a person who
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 4: knew all the key people in Dallas. She was a
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 4: very strong person. She tried to use the fact that
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 4: she was ill in order to control me. Sylvia Odio says,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 4: my thoughts, my friends, my goings, my goings and cummings
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 4: the way I raised my children, And came to a
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 4: point when she came. She called me every night to
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 4: get a report on what I had done for the day,
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 4: who I had seen, where.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 3: I had been. Sounds like Ruth Payne.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 4: Bro That's why I love you. I was about to
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 4: ask you, who does that sound like? I literally was
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 4: about to ask you that right, wealthy woman, religious person
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 4: or under the guise of a religious person. So then
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 4: came this father McCann. Father McCann and I became very
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 4: close friends.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's for sure.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 4: And he was going through his own crisis in his life.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 3: Lucille used him, managed.
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 4: Him, handled him. I don't know how to say it. Lucille,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 4: missus Connell tried to get us together and then tried
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 4: to get us apart and got jealous of our relationship.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 4: In the meantime, these are the days of our lives,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 4: speaking of rute pain getting jealous. People are very complex.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 4: Odeo says, she was very moody miss Connell and enjoyed
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 4: playing with people in our lives. There was a time
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 4: when I couldn't say no to her for anything. She
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 4: called me at two o'clock in the morning and say,
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 4: I don't want to sleep now, would you want to
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 4: talk to me?
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 3: And I followed.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 4: I felt that I had, even though I didn't want
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 4: to and had to go to work the next morning.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 4: Only with doctor Einspruch's help that she got me strong
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 4: enough to pull herself away from missus Connall, okay, this
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 4: is why she was very angry with me and called
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 4: the FBI. And it goes on and on, and it
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 4: goes into Alpha sixty six founder Antonio and Vesiana and
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 4: a bunch of other things, and more of the Leon
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 4: Oswald stuff, but and and into General and into Missus
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 4: Connall's uh connections with General Walker and also Colonel Castor,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 4: who you had talked about last week as well.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 3: So this is just a.
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 4: Crazy interview that she's giving to to gain fonsie here.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 4: And I don't I'm quite sure know what to.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 3: Make of it.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 4: But I think what we talked about most recently with
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 4: them showing her pictures of the Cubans of New Orleans
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 4: with Oswald leaving the courtroom, I think that's very telling.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 4: And I did not pick up on that before either.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 4: It's funny the things you pick up on second or
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 4: third or four time around.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 3: Oh, by the way, I found another j Martin today.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 3: I forgot to tell you, Oh, Julius Martin. Julius. Yes,
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 3: Well we'll get there, I promise, Okay.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But I thought that was an interesting follow up
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 4: on the Juan Martin and the Father McCann segment you
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 4: did last week, and it just piqued my interest and
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 4: just went to our drop off and found some good
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 4: files on it that I haven't read in a long time.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe, and we'll slide over to uh the
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 3: hell is her name? Mary Bledsoe, Joe. Now, for those
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 3: of you who don't know who Mary Bloodsoe is, she
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 3: was Oswald's landlady for like a week. He moved in
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 3: like a rent room type of deal in her house.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 3: He only stayed there a week and she ended up
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 3: kicking him out because he was weird, apparently, And it
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 3: was after that week that he moved into the Beckley
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 3: rooming house.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 3: I think she said he used to he used to
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 3: drink her milk or so he was drinking her milk
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: or some shit. I don't know, it's whatever. Also, this
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 3: is the same woman who said she was on the
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 3: bus that Oswald got on after the assassination, right, and
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 3: said he was looking all crazy and shit and was,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 3: you know, wearing a shirt that he hadn't put on
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 3: yet apparently. But so that's who Mary Bloodsoe he is, right. Yeah. Now,
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 3: I came across something that I hadn't seen in a while.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 3: And I don't think I've ever talked about this Mary
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 3: Bloodsoe document here except other than other than the fact
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 3: that it's probably a hoax. But we'll get there. And
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: of course people seeing it for the first time, I
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 3: think that they found something, and uh, it can be
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 3: a little confusing. So let's dive into it just a
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 3: little bit and look at it from every angle, shall we.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 3: Because I first came across in in Jim Garrison's investig
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 3: files and leads and things, there is a Jack Ruby
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 3: lead that says this source stated that in the summer
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 3: of sixty three, Ruby was living in the Oaklawn area. Okay, now,
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 3: in the summer of nineteen sixty three, I'm not sure
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 3: exactly where Ruby was living. I think it was Oaklahwan
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 3: And further that subject's roommate, George Senator, was a member
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 3: of the Communist Party. Apparently he was a member of
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: something so T one further stated that Lee Harvey Oswald
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 3: was known to subject and its subject rented an apartment
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 3: for Oswald in September of sixty three. This apartment was
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 3: located in the building next door to the apartment that
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: was occupied by Ruby in the Oaklawn area. It was
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: further stated that the manager of the apartment house asked
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 3: Oswald to move because the manager did not like him.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 3: Stores could not give the location of either apartment. Other
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 3: than the Oaklawn area. Further information was given indicating that
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 3: a red convertible was parked on the street in front
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 3: of the residence of subjects at the time Off the
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 3: tipet was shot on the twenty second of November nineteen
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 3: sixty three. Comment do these leads refer in turn to
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 3: Mary Bloodsoe? And Vagnoff note we should give more consideration
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 3: to Oswald's departure from Blodsoe's to why she turns up
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 3: as a witness on the bus. So I thought about
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 3: this for a little bit. And I don't know, Joe,
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 3: if it's true that because the address for Mary Bloodsoe
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 3: is six point twenty one North Marsalis, and I can't
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 3: remember Jack Ruby's address.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 3: But if it's true that these two apartment buildings were
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 3: close to each other, relatively speaking, in the Oaklawn district
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 3: of Dallas, which is close to oak Cliffe, that would
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 3: lend a little more credence to this document that popped
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 3: up now. Apparently, from what I'm reading from all research,
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 3: this document popped up sometime in nineteen sixty seven, okay,
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 3: and was apparently sent to Mark Lane, but never he
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 3: never received it. It was to them saying the address
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 3: was wrong or something so that apparently the hoaxers had
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 3: had created this document. They apparently they had stolen a
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 3: pad out of the Dallas Police Department on a general
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 3: offense report paper. Okay, now, I'm gonna show everybody what
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 3: this thing looks like. It looks like this. Okay, it
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 3: looks like an official Dallas Police general offense report. Blah
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah. Right now, I know it's I
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 3: can't blow it up any more than that, but I
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 3: will read what it says. Now, this is a general
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 3: offense report. The name of the complainant is Mary Bledsoe,
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 3: a white female aged sixty one, six twenty one North
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 3: Marcella's right. The offense reported The offense or reported crime
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 3: is disturbing the peace, and the place of the occurrence
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 3: is six twenty one North Marsala Street. The date is
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 3: October eleventh, nineteen sixty three, at eleven thirty pm. Okay.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 3: The officer making the report is A J. C. White
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: and A B. J. Hargus. Okay, well, I think we've
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 3: all heard of both of them, guys, Hargus being one
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 3: of the motorcycle cops in the motorcate right property attacked
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 3: rooming house, damage done to bed chairs and a TV set. Okay,
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 3: and it says this Missus Bledsoe, the owner of the
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 3: rooming house, howarded a scuffle going on in one of
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 3: her rooms, one she just rented earlier in the week
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 3: toen mister O. H. Lee. After the arrest of the
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 3: suspects below, Missus Bledsoe identified one of the men as
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 3: her rumor, mister Lee. His name was actually Alec Hydell,
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 3: according to his identification. When confronted with his identification cards
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 3: and mail addressed to him, Missus Bledsoe said she was
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 3: not sure if he was the rumor or not. When
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 3: brought into the downtown headquarters, the complainant again changed her
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 3: story concerning how the fight began, and so all suspects
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 3: were released pending a further investigation. Now this is where
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 3: it gets interesting. Subjects arrested Jay Rubinstein of thirteen oh
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 3: three and a half Commerce Street, Alec Hydell of six
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 3: point twenty one North Marsalis. Witnesses An H. H. Grant
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 3: of fourteen seventeen Garrett, who was a white male aged
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 3: thirty two, and I think that might be her son.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 3: I'm not one hundred percent sual and witness missus Mary Bledsoe,
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 3: nothing missing, only broken goods estimated value at fifty dollars.
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 3: And then it's at the bottoms is above suspects released
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 3: pending investigation, White Hargas disturbing the peace, dated ten twelve
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: sixty three. Now, if this document was legitimate, Joe, it
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 3: would be a bombshell, right because it's proof that Ruby
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 3: and Oswald knew each other prior to the assassination, right,
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's pretty freaking crazy, right. This is
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 3: one of those things it's like almost too good to
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 3: be true, right right, right? I know, Peaches, you know,
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 3: like what, yeah, I know it's crazy. Now. The story
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 3: behind this document was bandied about a little bit back
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 3: in the nineties. Okay, so let me see who broke
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 3: this because there was a researcher, Dave Perry, And of
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 3: course he's a lone nutterer, all right, so you know
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 3: what his angle is going to be. Oh, it's a hoax,
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 3: you know, of course, right right, it's a hoax. But
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 3: did did Jack Ruby live in Oklahm? Like I don't know,
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 3: I know he didn't live in Oakliffe, But everybody says, well,
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 3: Oswald might have been on his way to Jack Ruby's
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 3: when he allegedly shot Tippet. You know, it was like
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 3: in that same direction and a couple of blocks over.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 3: So I don't know, but uh so, Dave Perry, you know,
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 3: a Loane Nutter. Of course he's going to slant things
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 3: in a certain way and want this and want this
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 3: document to be too good to be true, of course.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And you always have to keep keep keep
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 4: guard for that, right, the documents that seem yeah.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 3: Like the McCune rally document, this document, you know, I
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 3: think I think the mccuhon rally documents a little easier
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 3: to debunk because of the formatting of that documentation. But
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: when something like this arrives and it's on legitimate Dallas
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 3: police shit, you know what I mean? So allegedly was
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 3: the fact that the document was allegedly discovered among the
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 3: personal papers of Lee Oswald's mother, Marguerite. The Marguerite Oswald
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 3: collection is housed in the library on the campus of
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: Texas Christian University in Fort Worth. And you know, I
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 3: guess there was a group of people who wanted to
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 3: make this a big story back in the nineties right.
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 3: So they did a press release and they showed it
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 3: to be packed with suppositions in you indo and false claims.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 3: Again know what this is coming from a lone nutter.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 3: As a result, some researchers immediately dismissed the document as
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 3: a hoax. Basically, the feeling was that the report was
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 3: accurate and known to Lee Oswald's very supportive mother that
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 3: she would have made much of the inherent implications. I e.
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 3: Oswald and Ruby knew each other before the assassination. Before
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 3: reaching out or before reaching a personal conclusion, I decided
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 3: to dig deeper and see if I could compare the
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 3: document with others produced by the Dallas Police Department within
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 3: the same time period. I felt there might be something
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 3: of importance contained in the document. In the end, I
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 3: found the police report rife with errors and detailed my
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 3: findings in a CTKA story as the Citizens for the
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 3: Truth on the Kennedy assassination. I concluded my nineteen ninety
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 3: four article with the following a request. It is my
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 3: hope the authors will RePOP replied publicly showing where my
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 3: details or logic are inaccurate. Not one one of the
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 3: three alleged hoaxers. Original hoaxers chose to respond. I felt
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 3: their lack of answers would result in rebukes from within
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 3: the research community, but it was not to be. Instead,
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 3: some individuals who offered no evidentiary support for their claims
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 3: weighed in with their opinions at any rate, while some
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 3: members of the quote Discovery party had moved on to
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 3: chasing multiple oswalls over the windsept wind swept plains of
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 3: North Dakota, I worked on. Finally, in late September of
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine, I got a break. A Kennedy assassination
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 3: web surfer notified some friends currently living in the Dallas
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 3: area about the controversy surrounding what has become known as
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 3: the Bledsoe document. He did so because he understood they
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 3: were the source of the police report. As a result,
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 3: I was contacted by one of the gentlemen who created
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 3: the document. You have read the last sentence correctly. A
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 3: group of individuals put the police report together. It was
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 3: a hoax. And now, as Paul Harvey would in tone,
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 3: here is the rest of the story. Number one. Two
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 3: people were involved in the creation of the police report.
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 3: It was produced sometime in nineteen sixty six number two,
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 3: They had little difficulty obtaining an official police report form.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 3: Many people had access to the police department main floor,
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 3: including other law enforcement representatives, average citizens, reporters, and attorneys
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 3: to name a few. The reports were not sequentially numbered,
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 3: so none would be missed, and they consisted of a
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 3: carbonized multi page snap out set. The perpetrators of the
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 3: hoax filled out the form using a manual typewriter. The
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 3: keys had to be struck forcefully so the type would
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 3: be legible on all copies. Number three. The people responsible
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 3: were fed up with the way the Dallas Police Department
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 3: and some Dallas citizenry were being portrayed and pestered by
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 3: what they considered self appointed assassination researchers. In particular, they
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 3: were disturbed by some allegations made by Attorney Mark Lane,
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 3: So the men decided to play a trick on Lane.
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 3: They plan to produce a bogus police report, send the
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 3: original to Lane, and wait for him to call a
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 3: press conference, and at the conference they would produce their
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 3: portions of the carbon set and embarrass Lane in front
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 3: of the media. Now this is already a very bad idea, okay,
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 3: even for a loan nutter to produce fake documentation, try
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 3: to set up somebody on the other side and then
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 3: spring it on them. Like that's even some low brow
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 3: dick shit for loan nutters to do, you know what
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 3: I mean? Like, are you really that upset that people
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 3: are asking questions in your town in nineteen sixty six?
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, come on, man, who was going to do.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 4: My gut goes in a different way? It's like, were
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 4: they really concerned citizens that were upset? Or were they
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 4: someone trying to discredit Mark Lane by sabotaging him and
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 4: giving him the faith off.
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah? But I mean, really, that's that's what you're gonna do.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Uh. They ultimately mailed the report to Lane,
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 3: but it was returned with the envelope stamped address the
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 3: unknown right. The men next discussed who else they could
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 3: sucker into believing the document to be genuine, so they
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 3: sent the report to Texas Warren Commission critic Penn Jones Junior.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 3: As far as the participants know, Jones did receive the
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 3: report but never did anything with it. Now, Penn Jones
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 3: ran with anything Joe, no matter how out there, and
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 3: if somebody, if he would have got his hands on
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 3: this documents A. He would either ran with it or
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 3: he would have thought to himself, this is bullshit, one
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 3: of the two, like this is too good to be
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 3: true to Why if somebody's sending me this right, you know?
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 3: But my gut feeling is he would have ran with it.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 3: Number seven, Since the paper trail shows the original had
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 3: been diverted from Lane to Penn's junior to Ben Jones junior,
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 3: Penn or an associate must be responsible for someone turning
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 3: the quote report over to Jim Garrison's staff. Garrison had
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 3: a copy in nineteen sixty seven, although Mary Ferrell, who
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 3: was assistant Garrison for a time, has indicated neither Garrison
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 3: nor any member of his staff believed that the report
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 3: was authentic. There this story would have ended had it
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 3: not been for a group of researchers who decided to
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 3: issue a press release twenty seven years later. They attempted
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 3: to manipulate the media without offering any substantive proof of
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 3: the legitimacy of their find So now you may want
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 3: to know why I believe the perpetrators of the hoax
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 3: are not hoaxing me. If you look at all the
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 3: copies of the document just below the heading of the
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 3: general offense report, you will find a series of numbers.
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 3: So let's take a look at this again, Joe. Yes,
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 3: So right up at the top, right under where it
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 3: says general offense Report, you will see some numbers, Joe.
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 3: They're very small two join or something. Eighteen it's twenty one,
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 3: twenty one. Yeah, like twenty one, eighteen five something, you
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 3: know whatever. Right, So, yeah, there's twenty one, eighteen, one, six, nine, fourteen,
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 3: and Elevenvert these to their alphabetic counterparts and the message
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 3: becomes you are a think. Yeah, apparently this was a
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 3: big insult back in the sixties. Apparently. I mean, this
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 3: sounds like a high school prank or something like these.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, these guys have you know, like what, Really,
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 3: you're a think? That's what you got. You're so pissed
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 3: off with Mark Lane that you want to embarrass him
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 3: in front of the world, and that's the best you
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 3: can come up with. You're a fink, You're a think,
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 3: And not even spell out you're They use the letter
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 3: you and the letter R in the letter A. You
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 3: are a think, right, So they didn't even get that
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 3: right of greater importance, those responsible for the hoax presented
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 3: me with the snap out yellow carbon copy that would
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 3: normally be destined for the police property room, hence the
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 3: yellow version. He said that the white original was originally
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 3: sent to Lane and then Penn Jones Junior, and for
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 3: all they know, it may still be among his papers,
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 3: which I don't know where they are apparently, so.
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 4: I don't quite click do what clickbait? Almost like in
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 4: the in the current sense.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 3: What you know? Again, it's just one of those things
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 3: that surfaces again and rears its ugly head and makes
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 3: you go, all, yeah, what the hell is this? You know,
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 3: if it's what they say it is, which is an
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 3: elaborate hoax, right, that these people in Dallas were so
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 3: pissed off to come up with this scheme that they
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 3: would go and steal an offence report from the Dallas
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 3: Police Department so that everything is legitimate. They're going to
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 3: write this thing out on a typewriter with all the
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 3: correct information, the correct address is, the correct names, and
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 3: the correct dates, real police officer names on it. They're
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 3: not like made up, okay, right, and then send it
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 3: to Mark Lane, hoping that he would use it and
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 3: then make him look like a fool by saying ah ha,
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 3: we got you. You're a think right there, We put
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 3: that under there. That's how you know it was us, right.
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know, man, something about that whole story doesn't
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 3: seem right. It could be true, it just doesn't sound
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 3: right to me.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 4: No, it sounds like some people that were trying to
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 4: bait Mark Lane into taking this clickbait, if you will,
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 4: and when it didn't work on him, did they kind
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 4: of go to say, well, maybe we'll work on Penn Jones.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 3: Of say the guys that brought this thing out, or
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 3: Jim Mars, Jack White and John Armstrong of Harvey and Lee. Right, So,
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 3: Jim Marsh said that in February of nineteen ninety four,
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 3: John Armstrong and Jack White, we're going through the papers
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 3: of Lee Oswall mother Marguerite. The documents are housed at
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 3: the Burnett Library of the Texas Christian University, located in
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 3: Fort Worth. It was there that John Armstrong discovered the
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 3: police report. What the document reports to be is best
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 3: summarized by the press release. And this is what the
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 3: press release said. According to the report. I mean, so
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 3: these three guys thought they really found some shit, right,
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 3: They called a press report, had a press release or
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 3: whatever it says. According to the report, Dallas Police responded
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 3: to a complaint by Mary Bledsoe, who said two men
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 3: were fighting in her rooming house at six twenty one
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 3: North Marcellis. After police arrived, two men were taken into
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 3: custody for disturbing the peace. According to the report, the
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 3: pair were J. R. Rubinstein of twelve or three and
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 3: a half Commerce and Alex Haydell of the Marsalis address.
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 3: Police reported that nothing was missing, only damaged to a bed,
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 3: chair and TV set, So apparently there was a fight.
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 3: Shit started getting thrown around, you.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: Know.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 3: I guess they were having a lover's quarrel, whatever the
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 3: case may be. Things get a little out of hand,
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 3: you know, people start throwing chairs and shit TV gets hit,
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 3: you know, shit flying everywhere. The article continues by furnishing
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 3: links between what is contained in the police report and
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 3: what Mars and other researchers have discovered over the years. Correctly,
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 3: Mars explains that the Warren Commission found Oswald did rent
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 3: a room from Mary Bledsoe at six twenty one North
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 3: Marcellis from October seventh to October fourteenth, that she wanted
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 3: Oswald to leave because she didn't like him, and then
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 3: she later testified to the Warren Commission that she saw
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 3: Oswald board a bus on which she was a passenger
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 3: shortly after the Kennedy assassination on November twenty second. Both
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 3: Armstrong and White believed the document to be genuine, but
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 3: are puzzled by its origin and inclusion in missus Oswald's files.
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 3: There are neither indications that Marguerite could use the typewriter,
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 3: nor had the proper police forms knowledge and terminology to
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 3: fabricate this hoax. If anyone fabricated it, motive is not clear,
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 3: for it previously has never been made public. It seems
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 3: to be a document that has been deliberately suppressed by
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 3: the Dallas police, says White, and somehow ended up in
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 3: the hands of the suspected assassin's mother. So can we
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 3: believe Jim Mars, Jack White and John Armstrong? Can we
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 3: believe John Armstrong? In particular, He's the one who says
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 3: he blatantly found it in Marguerite Oswald's papers. Now, if
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 3: Lane never got it, of course, Lane was acting as
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 3: her attorney or her son's attorney or whatever there for
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 3: a little while. But if Lane never got this paper
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 3: and it was sent to Penn Jones. I mean, at
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 3: some point he must have given it to her allegedly.
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 3: How would she get it?
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 3: Either that or these three researchers, Mars, White and Armstrong
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 3: are making up where they found this document. Which if
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 3: that's the case, that's not cool either, right.
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 4: No, So.
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 3: It appeared that both researchers, with White to the greater
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 3: extent because of his inclusion of additional information and comments,
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 3: were providing Mars with conclusions based upon pure speculation. Did
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 3: they try to recover the discover the origin of the document.
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 3: How did they determine Marguerite was or wasn't involved? Had
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 3: they discussed possible motives for fabrication? How did they confirm
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 3: the document was never made public before? If only a
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 3: superficial investigation was concluded. Why was White so sure the
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 3: Dallas police suppressed it. My first step was to call
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 3: Dallas researcher Mary Farrell. Has she ever heard of this report?
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 3: I asked? She said, ah, my heaven, yes, was Mary's
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 3: immediately reply. She continued by explaining that back before the
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 3: Garrison investigation, the report had circulated and everyone considered it
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 3: a hoax. Mary was sure she received her copy from
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 3: a now deceased preacher named Al Chapman. Fortunately, Al Chapman's son, Randy,
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 3: still lives in the area, so I was able to
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 3: contact him on March sixteenth, nineteen ninety four. Randy Chapman
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 3: proved to be a knowledgeable source of info about the
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 3: Dallas Police Department report as well as the Kennedy assassination.
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 3: On occasion, Randy Chapman has assisted the late Michael Edows
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 3: with local research. This several years after Eddos published the
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 3: Oswald file, Randy indicated his father was a recipient of
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 3: the report more likely more than likely prior to nineteen
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 3: sixty seven. Randy believes Al got the record from Dallas
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 3: Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walters. However, during previous calls to Mary,
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 3: she told me she believed Al told her he got
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 3: it from J. C. Day or a booking officer named Curry.
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 3: I do know that Dallas Police employed a D. Curry
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty three. Curry is listed as the recipient
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 3: of the general Offense Report on April tenth, nineteen sixty three,
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 3: attempt on the life of General Edwin Walker. At any rate,
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 3: Randy informed me his father was very friendly with Marguerite,
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 3: and that al did give her a copy of the report.
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 3: While not completely resolving how the document came to be
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 3: in the Texas Christian University Archive, it appears to absolve
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 3: Marguerite of responsibility for the document's fabrication, if indeed it
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 3: was fabricated. The next challenge was to ascertain if the
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 3: General Offense Report can be considered a spurious document. I
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 3: concluded that if the record was a hoax or a
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 3: practical joke, the author might have just added difficulty with
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 3: the details. The more mistakes, the more items at variance
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 3: with comparable police reports, the more likely the document was
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 3: indeed a hoax. The first check was to determine if
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 3: the report was in proper format, that is, a bona
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 3: fide police report. I use two sources. The first is
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 3: found in Warren Commission Volume two four h three nine.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 3: There I found Commission Exhibit two thousand and one CE
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 3: two thousand and one is a clear copy of the
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 3: General Offense Report of Oswald's April tenth, sixty three alleged
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 3: attempt on the life of General Walker. It is identical
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 3: to the Bledsoe report. The second is the General Offense
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 3: report on the Connolly shooting. A copy can be found
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 3: in the JFK Assassination file booked by Jesse Curry in
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine, on page eighty three. That form op
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 3: GF three six y two appears to be an updated
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 3: version of the one Armstrong discovered in the Marguerite Oswald
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 3: collection differences if they can be considered major or one.
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 3: Each report heading is numbered in the Connolly report, but
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 3: not in the Blood cell. At the base of the
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 3: Connolly report are the words Records Bureau, while in Bloodsue
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 3: reads investigating Bureau. Let's start with the line that suggests division, Platoon, etc.
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 3: And mister White's summary he references the line in the
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 3: Legible interpretation of the General Offense Report, White indicates the
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 3: line reads Division thirteen, Platoon thirty two s CAR ten
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 3: question mark. Clarifying the meaning of s CAR, White claims
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 3: the DPD squad car answering the call may be CAR ten,
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 3: which is the same number Tippet drove on November twenty second.
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 3: An interesting coincidence or not hard to say, but from
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 3: what that says is that the one from the General
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 3: Walker shooting earlier in sixty three, that report matches and
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 3: now one not published until Jesse Curry's book in nineteen
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 3: sixty nine is an updated form. Well, of course it's
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 3: not going to match an updated form, but it does
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 3: match one that we're using in sixty three one. So
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 3: to me, that makes sense, says mister White is correct
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 3: in that Car ten was the vehicle assigned and driven
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 3: by JD. Tippett on November twenty second. Tippet is alleged
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 3: to have been shot and killed by a fleeing Oswald
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 3: while patrolling the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. Where White
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 3: falls very short of the mark and his claims. The
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 3: itematric platoon yes s car, It does not. It actually
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 3: says beat. This box contains the beat number of the
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 3: patrol walker report. The division is d Platoon three Beat
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 3: twenty seven. White could have done some additional research by obtaining,
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 3: as I did, legible copies of similar documents, or by
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 3: using common sense in nineteen sixty three, as today, the
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 3: Dallas Police Department does not rely solely on squad cars,
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 3: but motorcycles and flip patrols as well. Therefore, it is
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 3: the beat number which is significant. Jack White has at
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 3: best misinterpreted, or at worst intentionally changed the language so
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 3: as to sensationalize the event. He not only modified the
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 3: heading of the box, but asked the rhetorical question based
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 3: on his own invented interpretation of the heading, attempting to
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 3: link Tippet's car ten to the Bledsoe scenario. I formed
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 3: the opinion these quote researchers had done very little research.
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 3: In fact, even the headline Dallas police report links Ruby
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 3: Oswald forty four days prior to the assassination is wrong.
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 3: Counted out yourself, October eleventh to November twenty second is
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 3: forty two days gasses. Continuing to look for errors, I
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 3: reviewed the record with respect to the details of offense,
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 3: damage done, suspects, blah blah blah, and it just goes
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 3: on and on. And this guy's trying to debunk every
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 3: little fucking thing that is in this report. You know
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying, mm hmm. And in the end, well,
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 3: let's try to figure out H. H. Grant. He was
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 3: a witness that is on sited on this police report.
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 3: An important witness to the altercation is listed as H. H. Grant,
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 3: a thirty two year old Dallas resident. There are no
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 3: information is given regarding what party played in the incident.
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 3: Ruby's sister is Eva Grant, and this man is about
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 3: the right age to be her son. I mean it's
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 3: they're stretching the ship out of this. A few sentences later,
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 3: in complete contradiction of his earlier remark, we find Jack
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 3: White searched all known literature on Ruby and cannot determine
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 3: whether Ruby six, or even Grant even had a son
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 3: or a relative named HH Grant. We will look at
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 3: some of this information point by point. He was a
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 3: thirty two year old Dallas resident. How does one know
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 3: if Grant was a Dallas resident? I discovered fourteen seventeen
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 3: North Garrett Avenue. There is no Garrett Street in Dallas.
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 3: As a check of the nineteen sixty three city directory
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 3: revealed was the address of this Cantamar apartments check listings
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 3: for sixty three, sixty four, and sixty five also found
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 3: there was a significant turnover in tenants. I surmised him
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 3: might be a location used by transient similar to the
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 3: Southland Hotel. Since I found their listing for HH Grant,
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 3: I could not conclude, as White did, that Grant was
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 3: a resident of Dallas. There are no information is given
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 3: in regarding what party played the incident. So this HH
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 3: grant supposedly lived in some flyphouse ship bag fleet you know,
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 3: fleet ridden motel in Dallas with high turnover, which not
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 3: out of the realm of possibility, right, uh.
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 4: M hm.
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean this guy is just going on
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 3: and on and on trying to debunk this report, this talk, right,
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 3: and I mean it's long, and maybe he's more trying
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 3: to debunk their press release about about this report. So
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to read all this ship right, yeah,
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 3: but I will say this to wrap it up. Fort
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 3: Worth researcher Gary Mack related to me he had a
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 3: conversation with Jim Marris shortly after the distribution of the information. Incredibly,
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 3: Mac indicates Mars claimed he discussed the discovery of the
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 3: document with Cleeborne, Texas Warren Commissioner critic Jay Gary shaw
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 3: Shawl told Mars that he had learned from Mary Ferrell
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 3: that the document was a hoax. Sadly, Jim Mars, by
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 3: distributing this release to the press, had placed his imprimateere
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 3: on the story. In the past. During his University of
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 3: Texas at Arlington classes, Jim Hatt commented on his friendly
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 3: relationship with Marguerite Oswald. He interviewed and spoke to her
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 3: on many occasions, yet she never mentioned this report, a
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 3: document that would verify a relationship between Oswald and Ruby
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 3: prior to the assassination. There seemed to be only two alternatives.
• 2:24:41
  Speaker 3: Marguerite did suppress the report from everyone, including Mars, because
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 3: in her view, it was proof of a conspiracy involving
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 3: her son and Ruby. Or the document is a hoax
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 3: planeted in the TCU archive after her death early in
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 3: nineteen eighty two. So now they're saying it's somebody could
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 3: have placed this hoax paper in with her material after
• 2:25:09
  Speaker 3: her death. I mean, how far do you take a joke, Joe?
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 4: I mean.
• 2:25:17
  Speaker 3: Seems way too far from this is almost twenty years
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 3: after it was written. Fifteen years after it was written, Like,
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 3: how far are you going to take this shit? Fifteen
• 2:25:27
  Speaker 3: years after you tried to pull off a hoax and
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 3: it failed. Now you're just gonna throw it in with
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 3: her shit at TCU, all.
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 4: Right, unless it's just to discredit the whole archives and
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 4: like knowing that some people are gonna find this and
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 4: at some point and try to publicize it, especially if
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 4: your initial hoax with Lane and Pan Jones didn't go well,
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 4: it's like, all right, let's put in the archives and
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 4: someone will run with it at some point.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know.
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 4: I'm just spitballing here.
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the only thing that
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 3: screams about about this thing is the fact that we
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 3: have a copy, not the original. And if that goddamn
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 3: numbers wasn't printed on the bottom of this thing or
• 2:26:27
  Speaker 3: at the top of this thing under a general offense report,
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 3: you know, who's to say that somebody didn't just didn't
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 3: take this a copy of this offense report and type
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 3: that on to the top of it and then say, oh,
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 3: it's just a hoax. I really don't know. Do the
• 2:26:52
  Speaker 3: numbers and where it says you're a fink, do the
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 3: numbers match the other typewritten numbers on the offense report.
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 3: It's hard to say. I can't see him that clearly.
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yeah, I'm not sure. It's it seems to
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 4: me like it's probably a place document that that was
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 4: meant to to to trip up someone and whether they
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 4: were initial or successful with Mark Lane or or Penn Jones,
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 4: or they later did it, did it with the Marguerite Files.
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 4: I don't know, but yes, Brandon, thank you. I know
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 4: it's your birthday and I hope you have a great birthday.
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 4: Thank you again for the the five memberships that given
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 4: at the beginning of the sure very and.
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 3: The happy is the birthday is to the double B
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 3: to Brandon both. Yes.
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 4: So before we go, Rob, I did pull up Bledsoe's
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 4: initial statement to the DPD.
• 2:28:16
  Speaker 3: This was.
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 4: One week after November twenty second, and I doesn't have
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 4: a date on it. Coincidentally, at least that I cropped,
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 4: but she said the last Friday, and I just want
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 4: to get your thoughts on her initial statement because obviously
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 4: we value that right more more than later ones. But
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 4: maybe we could figure out something from this last Friday,
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 4: November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, missus Mary Bledsoe continues,
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 4: I went downtown to see the President. I stood on
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 4: Main Street, just across the street from Teacha's until the
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 4: parade passed by. Then I walked over to Elm Street
• 2:29:03
  Speaker 4: and caught a bus to go home. The bus traveled
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 4: west on Elm Street to about Murphy Street and made
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 4: stop and that is when I saw Lee Oswald get
• 2:29:12
  Speaker 4: on the bus. The traffic was heavy and it took
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 4: quite some time to travel one or two or three blocks,
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 4: which we know to be the case as far as
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 4: we know.
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 3: During that.
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 4: Someone made the statement that the president had been shot,
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 4: And while the bus was stopped due to heavy traffic,
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 4: Oswald got off the bus and I didn't see him again.
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 4: I know this man was Lee Oswald because he lived
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 4: in my home October seventh through October fourteenth, nineteen sixty three,
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 4: which of course is one week signed Mary Bledsoe. So
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 4: this is one week after the twenty second, right, the
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 4: following Friday, twenty seventh.
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 5: Or.
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know exactly when it is his last Friday.
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. It could be any that's a good
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 4: money time with Yeah, that's true.
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 3: That's true. Right.
• 2:30:15
  Speaker 4: Let mean, I'll double check on the date. But no
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 4: mention of Ruby and Oswalt here, No, no, no.
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 3: Mention of that, no mention of a scuffle. What concerns
• 2:30:32
  Speaker 3: me about Mary Bledsoe and what she says is the
• 2:30:36
  Speaker 3: fact that it is such so much later, you know
• 2:30:40
  Speaker 3: what I mean. So by this time they've they've they've
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 3: constructed the Oswald timeline and narrative, right, m How convenient
• 2:30:52
  Speaker 3: it is for them to have a witness who knew him,
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 3: who happened to live with him for a week, who
• 2:30:58
  Speaker 3: could positively identify it get on that bus, right.
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 4: Very sus especially allegedly it didn't go well because he
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 4: moved out there for a week.
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but if you look at her Warren Commission testimony,
• 2:31:16
  Speaker 3: what she did, it doesn't really jive. It doesn't make
• 2:31:20
  Speaker 3: sense with what he was wearing at the time, because
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 3: she puts him wearing his arrest shirt, wearing that as
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 3: he got on the bus. Now we know that he
• 2:31:36
  Speaker 3: did not wear that to work. Nobody said that he
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 3: wore that shirt to work that day. Everybody said that
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 3: on a white T shirt, And the clothes that he
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 3: did change out of when he got home were in
• 2:31:48
  Speaker 3: the dirty clothes. They're in evidence. He put this shirt on,
• 2:31:54
  Speaker 3: the brown shirt with the gold you know, little twining
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 3: or whatever it is running through it, he put that
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 3: on when he left his rooming house. So the fact
• 2:32:10
  Speaker 3: that she says she saw it and it had a
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 3: rip already in the elbow, you know, which likely didn't
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 3: happen until the scuffle in the Texas theater, It's all
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 3: very suspect and very convenient for them. Yes, and if
• 2:32:27
  Speaker 3: you were going to post date an interview like this
• 2:32:33
  Speaker 3: or or well, I don't think they post dated it.
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 3: I think because she didn't come forward right away and
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 3: say this, I think they figured out that he had
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 3: stayed there and went to interviewer. Right.
• 2:32:47
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I'm sorry, I misspoke. If you were to
• 2:32:51
  Speaker 4: get a statement that you would need to fit the narrative,
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 4: what better person than someone that allegedly knew him, could
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 4: identify him, and probably didn't have the best experience with him,
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 4: whether she drank his milk, her milk, whatever. I don't
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 4: believe that, but you know what I mean. It seems
• 2:33:10
  Speaker 4: like an awfully convenient witness to get a statement from,
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 4: and of course on the bus to corroborate that he
• 2:33:22
  Speaker 4: got on. He got off a couple of blocks later,
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 4: even though the bus was going back to the TSBD.
• 2:33:28
  Speaker 3: I don't I think was the more saless line. Or
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 3: then hep a cab and you know, it just takes.
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 3: It's just all over the place.
• 2:33:36
  Speaker 4: But right, if you needed someone to put one of
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 4: those pegs in your timeline, it seems like a lady,
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 4: a bitter former landlady. It might be the perfect kind of.
• 2:33:51
  Speaker 3: Person to do that.
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 4: So everything she's very sus to me. I don't know
• 2:33:55
  Speaker 4: what to believe.
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 3: Now, I've got one more document to show you before
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 3: we go. That is has been described as a hoax
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 3: as well, but I want to get everybody's thoughts on
• 2:34:07
  Speaker 3: it here. Now we know, of course, of the mccon
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 3: rally document being a hoax, the Bloodsoe document being a hoax,
• 2:34:16
  Speaker 3: this one is another one that, if true, if true, Joe,
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 3: is very damning, very damning to one. David Fairy. Oh, okay,
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 3: the the good guy, Yes, the good guy, David Ferry.
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 4: So that was never disputed by anyone.
• 2:34:46
  Speaker 3: Well, that was a joke. This document surely has. So
• 2:34:53
  Speaker 3: let's take it.
• 2:34:55
  Speaker 4: It's going to change my mind down the Pharry.
• 2:34:57
  Speaker 3: Now, this is going to be big enough for everybody
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 3: to see. Okay, boom. It is a flight plan allegedly
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 3: put together by David Ferry on April eighth, sixty three, Joe,
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 3: this is two days before General Walker is shot at
• 2:35:18
  Speaker 3: in Dallas.
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 4: Okay, okay, And yes, and just for people that don't know,
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 4: as a former pilot at least, yeah, you have to
• 2:35:31
  Speaker 4: file flight plans before.
• 2:35:32
  Speaker 3: You fly, So this is before you get me make
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 3: a aircraft. It's a Sestna something or other. Time of
• 2:35:37
  Speaker 3: departures thirteen hundred, which is one o'clock. It is leaving Hammond, Louisiana, Joe, okay,
• 2:35:46
  Speaker 3: on a direct flight to Garland, Texas. Okay, Okay.
• 2:35:52
  Speaker 4: And where's Garland, Texas?
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Okay, It's got to be close to
• 2:35:57
  Speaker 3: Dallas because it is going to be Galveston. It's not Galveston.
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure Garland's got to be close to Dallas.
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 4: Garland is It's in the north east of Dallas. Yeah,
• 2:36:19
  Speaker 4: not far away, okay. Continue and kind of near Richardson, Texas.
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's pretty close. Yeah, about twenty minutes away.
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 3: So in section F it says the alternate destination if
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 3: they can't land in Garland is Dallas.
• 2:36:35
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 2:36:40
  Speaker 3: It's supposed to be a five and a half hour flight.
• 2:36:43
  Speaker 3: Total number of people on board is four. The name
• 2:36:48
  Speaker 3: of the pilot is Ferry okay. And then at the
• 2:36:52
  Speaker 3: bottom of it at lists the name of the passengers.
• 2:36:56
  Speaker 3: And this is where it gets in interesting. Oh, because
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 3: you have Hydell, Lambert and Diaz. Joe, Wow, Hidell, Lambert
• 2:37:14
  Speaker 3: and Diaz.
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 4: You know who Hydell might represent Diaz, like like Pedro
• 2:37:23
  Speaker 4: Diaz Lambs. No, that would have been last name.
• 2:37:29
  Speaker 3: M h.
• 2:37:30
  Speaker 4: Do you know anyone named Lambert?
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 3: Well, a lot of these Spanish names, they didn't always
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 3: use their last name, they used like their middle name. Right,
• 2:37:41
  Speaker 3: that's true, Like Sergio Kasha. Yeah, that's Sergio Kasha Smith,
• 2:37:46
  Speaker 3: you know, you know, Yeah, his last name was not
• 2:37:48
  Speaker 3: so it could be Pedro Diaz or who knows.
• 2:37:56
  Speaker 4: Okay, interesting that if this was filed months before the assassination,
• 2:38:03
  Speaker 4: has Hadel on it? Yes, because a flight plan has to.
• 2:38:06
  Speaker 3: Be fine, and not just any flight plan, A flight
• 2:38:09
  Speaker 3: planned by David Ferry going from Hamond, Louisiana to Damn
• 2:38:14
  Speaker 3: close to Dallas two days before General Walker gets shot at. Yeah,
• 2:38:22
  Speaker 3: and Lambert was one of one of, of course, one
• 2:38:26
  Speaker 3: of clay Shaw's possible aliases. Oh, I do not know. Yeah,
• 2:38:39
  Speaker 3: but like I said, dude, if this is legit, and
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 3: people will say no, it can't be legit, it's a
• 2:38:45
  Speaker 3: it's a hoax, but it looks pretty goddamn authentic to me. Yeah,
• 2:38:52
  Speaker 3: you know, minus the whited out areas. I don't know
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 3: what's going on there, but uh, you know, this is
• 2:38:58
  Speaker 3: one of those documents where if true, Houston, we've got
• 2:39:04
  Speaker 3: a problem because you have David Ferry flying Lee Oswald
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 3: and two other people to Dallas two days before the
• 2:39:13
  Speaker 3: walker shooting MM, which is interesting. I mean the hops
• 2:39:18
  Speaker 3: give it to jump. It's five hours the air, five
• 2:39:20
  Speaker 3: hours back boom. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:39:23
  Speaker 4: And VFR ROB stands for visual Flight Roles, set of
• 2:39:28
  Speaker 4: regulations that govern our pilot can operate in aircraft when
• 2:39:32
  Speaker 4: weather conditions allow for clear visibility. So there's VFR which
• 2:39:37
  Speaker 4: means like you can fly with with you know, by
• 2:39:43
  Speaker 4: looking out for the airplane. And then there's an instrument
• 2:39:49
  Speaker 4: flight rules which is different, and that's like when you can't,
• 2:39:53
  Speaker 4: you know, it's too cloudy, you can't, You have to
• 2:39:56
  Speaker 4: rely on instruments.
• 2:39:57
  Speaker 3: So right, yeah, I don't know if they have autopilot
• 2:40:02
  Speaker 3: back then or what they did non incessans, that's for sure,
• 2:40:10
  Speaker 3: so very interesting. And Scott brings up a good point.
• 2:40:13
  Speaker 3: Doesn't match David Fairry's handwriting. I don't. I don't know
• 2:40:15
  Speaker 3: if David Ferry had to actually fill this out or
• 2:40:18
  Speaker 3: if some some skafuza at the airport filled it out
• 2:40:22
  Speaker 3: for him, you know, if I don't know in theory, uh,
• 2:40:28
  Speaker 3: you do have.
• 2:40:28
  Speaker 4: To fill out your own pre flight stuff. Yeah, so
• 2:40:33
  Speaker 4: in theory it should match. I don't know, but in theory, yeah,
• 2:40:37
  Speaker 4: you're not going to have a someone that air traffic
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 4: Control filled out the person that is making the flight.
• 2:40:45
  Speaker 3: Arry is going to do it. And South Towest comes
• 2:40:48
  Speaker 3: in with the coming of the Evening Come Flying with
• 2:40:52
  Speaker 3: David Ferry. Bravo, Bravo, sir. Yes, that that is a
• 2:41:01
  Speaker 3: good one. Yes, that is that is the for sure, Bravo.
• 2:41:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a good thing to follow up on.
• 2:41:10
  Speaker 4: Though maybe uh yeah, maybe we can compare his his
• 2:41:20
  Speaker 4: his handwriting in a in next week's episode. And and yes,
• 2:41:24
  Speaker 4: James uh Pedro Diaz lands. I don't know, it just
• 2:41:28
  Speaker 4: came to mind.
• 2:41:29
  Speaker 3: But you know, there's some other folks with Diaz as
• 2:41:32
  Speaker 3: a middle name. Yeah, yeah, you're not gonna it's gonna
• 2:41:36
  Speaker 3: be a few Cubans with that. But you know, it's interesting.
• 2:41:41
  Speaker 3: If it's true, it's pretty pretty damning. I mean, it
• 2:41:47
  Speaker 3: just shows you that a they had a relationship so
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 3: close that they were flying together to Dallas, you know,
• 2:41:55
  Speaker 3: and got it changes the whole perspective on things. Let's
• 2:42:00
  Speaker 3: just say it doesn't prove anything one way or the other.
• 2:42:02
  Speaker 3: But it does give you a bit of a different
• 2:42:05
  Speaker 3: perspective on things if it can be deemed legit legitimate,
• 2:42:11
  Speaker 3: I'm sure people.
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's that's crazy because no, because uh,
• 2:42:17
  Speaker 4: the the rifle was already ordered by Adele by that point.
• 2:42:23
  Speaker 3: Anyway.
• 2:42:25
  Speaker 4: Uh, it just makes you think what type of spy
• 2:42:29
  Speaker 4: games were happening, you know, two days before the Walker thing,
• 2:42:35
  Speaker 4: And it's fascinating to consider we should follow up on that, Yeah,
• 2:42:40
  Speaker 4: because yeah, you know, you definitely have to. Uh, you
• 2:42:46
  Speaker 4: provide the pre flight and all that stuff.
• 2:42:51
  Speaker 3: So believe it or not, we leave it up to
• 2:42:59
  Speaker 3: you people to figure out. Yeah, and with that, you know,
• 2:43:02
  Speaker 3: what's time for Joe free Ruby. Let that ditch out
• 2:43:10
  Speaker 3: to play. Why are you sexy Feline or no K
• 2:43:17
  Speaker 3: nine we look at Yeah, tell me a ruby, come
• 2:43:28
  Speaker 3: on the greatest life. There you are. The greatest crimes
• 2:43:34
  Speaker 3: are committed in the name of just everybody. Thank you.
• 2:43:36
  Speaker 3: The quotation is Jim Gatson against my Ruby, Free Ruby.
• 2:43:41
  Speaker 3: Good night. We'll see you next Wednesday for the Super
• 2:43:50
  Speaker 3: Secret members only show and if you'd like to watch
• 2:43:54
  Speaker 3: it links in the description sign up. Become a covert
• 2:43:58
  Speaker 3: operator or higher, call me Superspy or COVID operator and
• 2:44:05
  Speaker 3: you'll be able to join us on Wednesday evenings too. Yeah,
• 2:44:08
  Speaker 3: we have a good time, we do. It's always fun.
• 2:44:14
  Speaker 3: And again I'll save the Julius Martin for next week
• 2:44:17
  Speaker 3: because it pertains to something totally different and you can
• 2:44:21
  Speaker 3: find out what exactly I'm talking about on Wednesday night.
• 2:44:25
  Speaker 3: So we'll see you there. Good night, everybody, and thank
• 2:44:29
  Speaker 3: you so much.
• 2:44:31
  Speaker 4: Kisses from Ireland from Sally Ruby.
• 2:44:34
  Speaker 3: Thank you Randall, we try, thank you Scott. Yes, thank
• 2:44:48
  Speaker 3: you guys.
• 2:44:48
  Speaker 4: Have a great weekend and we will see you next
• 2:44:51
  Speaker 4: Wednesday or next Friday.
• 2:44:53
  Speaker 3: Yep, we'll catch you on Wednesday or Friday, firmly Wednesday,
• 2:44:59
  Speaker 3: like you can get crazy there, join us