Latest / White Fox Talking / E73: Inside the Storm: Sip Powers Veteran's Journey Through PTSD

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E73: Inside the Storm: Sip Powers Veteran's Journey Through PTSD · White Fox Talking

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: I'm Mike Shelley, of All the Time and at the side of me as usual, Seb.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Hi Charlie.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hello, mate, how are you Back?
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: again.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Another night in the studio Always fills me with joy.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Wow, what was that?
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I meant that positive?
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Oh right, well, it's good because we managed.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically for those listening, we yeah, so basically for those listening, we load up with podcasts.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: We try, we try, because during the summer, I like to be out cuddling trees.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: What do you like to do, sir?
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: We can also not really get into the studio.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: We can't get into the studio.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately, our studio is not as accessible.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: So if we can do that, but it's good, isn't it?
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Concentrate the work.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, how's things?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: How's everything else?
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: All right, everything fine, charlie, excellent, right, I'll stop waffling and I will introduce our guest.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: And our guest this evening is Mr.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Oh well, every time you're listening, I suppose, is Sip Powers.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Hello Sip, how are you?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: The White Fox Talking Podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Hey guys, how you doing.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're good, thank you.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: So could you just give our listeners a little introduction about yourself and then we'll get on with the main sort of gist of the podcast.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: So I'm ex-military, I served 34 years, I got out in 2022 and I've been doing endurance challenges for some time now to raise the profile for combat stress and raise them obviously a bit of money, and I've completed one recently, the Enduro 214, and I'm about to do my next one, the Enduro 3, in August Cool 34 years service.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Wow, what were you serving in?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Where were you serving?
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: So I started as a junior Marine and then I left as a LE major in the Royal Logistic Corps.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Right, and that was 34 years.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lifetime, isn't it?
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really good.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: It was really good.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Obviously there was some moments, but yeah, I can't complain.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: It's kind of forged me, forged the sort of person I am today, I suppose.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can I ask before we get on to the sort of main topic and the challenge how did you find 34 years service and then into civil life?
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: The transition has been difficult and I think a lot of veterans that have so in the military, people that do their full service.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: If they join as soldiers, like I did they normally do 22 years.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: That's called colour service, and then they will be fortunate enough to get a pension, or they used to in the old system and then they would obviously transition into their next chapter.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: And a lot of veterans struggle with that transition because they have a code, a moral compass, and sometimes they don't quite align when they come into civistry and they can find it quite difficult.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I can imagine yeah, I know you're from Bermel, another international mountain leader, so you've always about you've obviously been keen and interested with the outdoors.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: And how was that?
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: How was that well treating you at the moment?
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: yeah, really good.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I mean I was very lucky.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I was a paddler as a as a marine cadet, so I was into, I was into stuff outdoors before I joined the service and then that's just continued all the way through my service.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I was very lucky to get many of my qualifications, both military and civvy.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: While I was serving I kind of had the top-end qualifications in the we call it the Joint Service Adventure Training Scheme.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: So I did a lot from mountaineering, climbing, alpinism, pletcher-steiging, paddling, went on lots and lots of expeditions all over the world and took literally thousands of young soldiers through that process as well to become instructors in their own right now.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: And it's nice because I've met a few of them and they're kind of where I was now, which is amazing.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that must be a good feeling, doing that for a living and then moving into civistry and doing pretty much similar.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I didn't do that for a living, that was a sideline.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I was a eventually, I was a logistician.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I did many jobs water master, regimental careers officer.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I worked at Army HQ doing adaptations for the tri-service.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I created that kind of document that's still being used now.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: So I did many jobs but I was very lucky that I could still do all of the adventure training stuff for units and for the service.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And I was also quite heavily involved with Battleback and Battleback is a mod led initiative but funded by charities predominantly help for heroes and raw bridge legion.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: And battleback looked after seriously wounded soldiers and helped them rehabilitate through the great outdoors.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And we're talking, you know know, guys coming back, guys and girls coming back from Afghanistan, diffie Limbs.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: You know, complex PTSD, lots and lots and lots of stuff going on, and I did that for 10 years.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: So I think we'll have a few more friends in common, because I know CGO used to be quite involved.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I think some people from Carnegie Gray Outdoors were quite involved with it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: So basically, the reason that you're on the podcast is to talk about the charity, combat stress, which is something close to your heart, I believe.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: So something that I realised when I was in service was, you know, most of these young guys and girls were so injured that eventually they would be medically discharged.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: There's not many of them that would be retained, and the problem was what happens to them once they get out and they become a veteran?
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: And the answer there are some amazing charities out there, but in all honesty, you have a line drawn through your regimental number and that's you.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: You're done.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And a lot of these guys and girls were piling in once they left the service.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: So before I left, I set up my own company called extreme outdoors bit of play on words x, you know, x forces and and the and the idea was to get anyone from the military whether they're serving still or or or or now a veteran, and take them out.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Take them paddling, climbing, you know, trekking whatever to for their health and well-being.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: But also if they wanted to get on the ladder and take them out and take them paddling, climbing, you know, trekking whatever for their health and well-being, but also if they wanted to get on the ladder, you know, and get their foundation skills, I could help them do that as well.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: And to be honest, I was pretty much doing it for free, Right?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose we should explain it, you know.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: So complex issues, basically complex mental health issues we're looking at.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so something that's probably you know.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Let's get the difficult bit out of the way.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I was married for 30 years.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I met my wife while I was serving.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: She was a soldier as well and we moved around for 30 years in different marry quarters and then I got this place in Preston as our forever home.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Emma went on tour as well.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: She had her own demons and unfortunately she took her life last year in June and that caused a trigger and I basically piled in.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I knew I had my own demons.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: We would take these guys away to the likes of Bavaria amazing and there would be staff from Headley court, specialists, you know, clinical therapists, mental health nurses, and and we'd be in the bar, you know, having a laugh with the lads.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: And you know, one of these, one of these ladies I worked with for a couple of years, did kind of say to me one night you do realize you're as fucked as the rest of them.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: And I went no, there's nothing wrong with me, I'm, you know.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: And and then when I piled in, obviously people were I've got some amazing military brothers and they were, you know, looking after me, just, you know, checking in on me, and they were all saying mate, you need to get help.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: And then eventually I met somebody who's amazing, who's had her own demons, and she basically gave me an ultimatum and said look, you're a mentalist, I cannot handle this, you need to get help.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: And so I, because I'm linked to combat stress anyway, I'm kind of like the regional rep for Lancashire's 300,000 veterans in this region, and so I had a contact directly in yeah.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: And I contacted them via text, just said to the two people that you know that were kind of my bosses and said I need help, and they literally messaged me within five minutes and said we were waiting for this right and that was it, and, and then the process started.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: So I'm now I'm now getting support from combat stress cool.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean the way that you're talking about you could hear a little bit.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: You could hear emotion in your voice.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that you've.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: You took that step.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: What was it like taking that step?
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I't want to be.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: We don't want to be going over things that are going to be quite upsetting or quite raw.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: You know so you can't say no.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: The problem is, Charlie, you know, yeah, I've not really slept since June 24th, so it's difficult.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: But you know, I just see that straining for the Enduro 3, because it's one of the best things to do.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Sleep's quite useful, I find.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, the first days of my PCST whatever the scale of it at the time, I just couldn't sleep, didn't sleep.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Racing mind and also sleep avoidance was my big thing because I didn't want to see things that my brain would flash in front of me and it took a long time.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I've shown your video to so many of my mates, yeah, and as they're listening and you're explaining about you know not sleeping doing things to you know, all of them are like looking at me, laughing, going mate.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: What about?
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's all these characteristics and I don't know about yourself.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Have you read and I mentioned this book in every episode Body Keeps the Score yet no, yeah, I'll send you a link to that and the thing was some of it's tough reading, but what I found was actually I'm displaying these traits and mental health issues and destructive behaviours.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: But actually when you read the book, yeah, these are typical behaviours.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: But actually when you read the book, yeah, these are typical behaviours, but you feel like an individual, it's just yours, it's just hang on, I can't explain this to somebody.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: So to actually read it in there and you're like actually, yeah, this is it sort of confirms, yes, there's an issue, but there's also a way through and I'm not a therapist, the way, but I would, I would definitely definitely recommend.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Can I ask and you don't have to tell us what sort of behaviors would you say that you were displaying before we've started addressing it, apart from this.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I'm like insanely hyper, vigilant, right aggress.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I can be very aggressive, you know, and it can just switch.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I can hear something, smell something, see something and I just burst into tears.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: I wanted to take my own life.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just right at the bottom and I felt ashamed, embarrassed, weak.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I knew there'd be a stigma, the reason why not just me.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: There'll be other listeners that are serving or veterans that will listen to this, and I didn't want to tell anyone while I was serving that I was having problems because there's a stigma.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I was an officer then.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I was in command of men, leading them and I didn't want them to think that their boss was not capable.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Just a thousand and one reasons and also potentially could affect my career, my promotion, me going away on ops again.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there was a thousand and one reasons why I didn't say anything.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: And the thing is I did a couple of tours in Northern Ireland and I wanted to.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: You know people out there were saying look, you know you're a fit lad, why have you not considered?
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: You know people out there were saying look, you know you're a fit lad, why have you not considered, you know, sf and I kind of went down that way, but piled in because I was diagnosed as a type one diabetic.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: But I was lucky because I was going through that process my chain of command wrote some really good letters and said look, he's a good lad, let's not discharge him.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: You know we'll retrade him.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I was a driver at the time.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: So, as a type 1 diabetic, if you can't, you lose all your heavy goods licenses.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: So I had to retrade and, yeah, I was protected by by people around me.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm very lucky to have had people like that that saw something else and and because of that I've I I wanted to prove that I was as capable as anyone else.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: You know, not disabled, your med tags actually have.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: You know which we have, which we hang around a neck when we're on ops.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: You know actually had disability diabetic and I hated it.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I hated it.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to prove I was as capable as anybody else.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: So I did all the mental PGI courses skill at arms, sanders, carter, senior Brecken, you know and went on countless operational tours that not many other diabetics were doing and I was very fortunate that I promoted through the ranks because of all the stuff I was doing.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: And then, in 2020, when I was at my last post as an OC, as an officer commanding, I got rapid onset colitis and they eventually had to do an emergency ileostomy.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So I haven't got any bowels and my ass has been removed and I've got permanent stoma, which is not a sob story, because I'm one of the only mountaineers that can do multi-pitch climbs.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: That goes for shit.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: So you know, I'm I'm not, I'm not moaning and and obviously with the diabetes, I try and eat healthy because I have to.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: So, but the problem was, is the military then turned around and sort of said look, because of all of these things going on, now, the chances are you, you probably won't be able to go in ops anymore.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And I just I didn't want to stay in the military and not lead men on ops, and so I made the decision to go to do a what they call an r2r regulator reserve transfer, so I could still continue to support battle back and and still be a logistic officer and do the the military stuff as well and maybe have a chance of still going on tour, I don't know.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And so that's what I did.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: And then eventually they they turned around, said, look, your medical grading is not appropriate for this post.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: And I was basically told that I couldn't go there.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: So I spoke to the military and eventually they gave me a retrospective med discharge and so I left the service.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: I suppose for that you know you've got that way of life and you've got that passion yeah, I mean heartbreaking I suppose at that time to pick yourself up from that.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: But then you've also got this PTSD from before.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Then yeah, it was there, but it just hadn't.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: There was traits.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: And now I look back and reflect.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: You know, I know and don't forget.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: You know myself and my fellow instructors and something.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: One of them, les, was here tonight, stayed with me last night, surprise call in.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: He's an amazing bloke and him and another guy called steve on a an army mountaineering weekend and I took him up to fan up one of the one of the one of the crews, yeah, and we became really good friends and les was there as well and I brought both of those into the team because they were the right people to deal with these lads.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: You know, still have a laugh with the lads, not treat them like something we said in battle backers.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: It's it's not about what you can't do, it's all about what you can do, and the blokes love that.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: We treated them like soldiers.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: We pissed around and it was.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: You know I get naked all the time.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: It's really bad to do that, but it was just that we didn't.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: There was no.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: No one talked about rank.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: There was no rank first night.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: It was amazing, absolutely amazing, and these lads now are carrying it on.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I'm proud of both of them yeah, well, obviously you've still got that squad of humour where you're saying that you don't have to.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: You know, on a multi-pitch you don't have.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: It's like if you have to go for it you've got to take your harness off.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean and try and find somewhere.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: And it's grim.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Can I just take you back, sip, that when you mentioned some of the traits that you were showing earlier about, I suppose this is more of a conversation between two friends than a podcast, but for anyone else that's listening, that's probably trying to think about what's going on with themselves.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, they are classic traits of some of people that have got PTSD, that have been involved in incidents and I suppose yours is CPTSD, would we say.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: It's complex.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: It's complex and another explanation, the way that I sort of explain that is that.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: So my PTSD when I was diagnosed yeah, 30 out of 30, where it was top end, but it was a single event where a CPTSD can build up.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: And this is build up over event after event, after event after event, isn't it?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: And then this is why there's so much of this in military, ex-military and blue light services.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: You know people going to these incidents and it's part of the job, but then it has an effect later on in life and I think it's part of recognising them traits that you've got them, isn't it?
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: And that can be a scary moment.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: The thing is I've always been a risk taker.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I've always been, you know, an adrenaline junkie with all of the crazy stuff I've done.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: And even when I, before I, left the service, I was very lucky when I was doing the enduro 7, which was an event.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: It was seven extreme events over seven days for 20, you know, for 24 hours, no sleep, and and one so it was.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: It was climb, abseil, paddle the three peaks twice, mountain bike, road bike and run, and we were going to do the abseil first because obviously it's a bit dodgy, you know, not sleeping when you're abseiling.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: But we couldn't.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: The venue that we'd sorted out they pulled out right at the last minute because they were like this is too risky, right, I was very lucky that one of the yeah, one of the boys that was in my squadron amazing lad, his cousin, owned a rope access company called Opal Access and he spoke to him and he said, yeah, we'll sort something out in Liverpool off the exchange flags, right, the only time they could get it was, I think, on the day four or five or something, but they set it up and it was amazing and in the end I had a bit of a bromance with the two bosses, lee and Kenny, and they said, look, what are you doing when you get out?
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: And I went well, I don't know, I've got my own company.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: And they said, look, you're a climber and all that, why don't you get your rope access ticket and come and work for us?
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, so that's what I did fight on the Friday and on the Monday I was jumping off buildings, you know, rigged up, and again I was like with a bunch of close, small, close little team we're putting our kit on, it's jingling around, we're checking each other and it's dangerous and and I, just it, just it felt close to being like in a little military team.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Again, you know, I loved it.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I suppose it's a common thing, isn't it, when people leave the military, that finding that routine and finding camaraderie if I can actually speak, camaraderie and structure, would you say that's fair enough.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest things that I miss are my mates, you know, and just the way we can communicate to each other and trust each other.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes you don't have to say anything, you know you can just look at someone and they know, and they go away and they do it, and I don't have to check them because I know it's going to be done and it's just that.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: It's just how it works, whereas what I find now is communication is sometimes difficult with people.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: They don't call you back and you know you're sending emails and they haven't got the same values, and I get really frustrated and it's another reason why.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: So I've now joined Boland and Pennine Mountain Rescue.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: It's something I've wanted to do for 20 years but I never had any stability to do it and I put in the paperwork, I was lucky enough to get through and literally a week ago, I moved from probationer to trainee now.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: So I'm now on their SAR list to go out on search and rescues, which is amazing.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: And again, they're an amazing bunch of blokes, so experienced.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: You know more than 40 of them there and the team that I'm with there was 14 that started.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: We're now down to seven already and we're not even halfway through the process.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: And again, it's just putting that kit on, doing something to support, you know, to save a life, and and and having that trust and and dependence on everyone else.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: It's just.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: It's just a great environment and also going out into the hills in shitty, harsh environments and I'm like yes, well, it will be.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: It's lancashire, mate.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: It's lancashire, sorry, that's just from other side of hills.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: So what I want to do is talk about something.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Can we go over the challenges you've done before and then we'll talk on the one that's coming up, because I think we want it.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: We need to get these into perspective.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: You know when, but when we you know for the listeners.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I'm quite intrigued with this not sleeping thing.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I won't recommend it.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I'm a big sleep fan so.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: So I probably first started with the everest charity climb.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: So there was a small team of us.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: We got a wall, like a 10 meter wall.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: We put it outside the wall museum in chelsea and we basically climbed the height of everest from sea level as a just constant and we did so well and the local people were amazing and I booked the wall for like seven days.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: I went right, bollocks, we'll do it twice.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: And then it was a lick out, an absolute lick out.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: All the team were like oh my God, but we did it.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: We raised a lot of money.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: The people in Chelsea and the Chelsea pensioners were coming out as well, which was drawing the crowds, and the team were amazing and we raised a lot of money.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: And some of the guys went to EBC with Everest Base Camp staff.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: There there's another charity, amazing charity.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: So that was my first kind of, that was my first kind of endurance event.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: And then I went to Cyprus as a W01.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: And I was in Akateri and there was a club called the K1 Triathlon Club.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Obviously, I'm a fit lad shit swimmer and one of the bosses there an RAF officer, amazing guy called Roy.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: He was the piedo, which is like the RAF equivalent of a master at arms, a physical training instructor but I used to call him Pido just to wind him up all the time and he said, look, why didn't you have a go at the triathlons?
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: And I was like, do I have to wear Lycra?
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: And he was like, yeah.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And I went no, I'm not doing it.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: And then he said, look, just stop pissing around, come and have a swim and we'll see how you go.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: You know, you can bite, you can run, you just got to get the swim nipped.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: So I went, okay, and I went, and I was in the pool with all the club and they were all like doing roll turns and everything.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And he said, right, just swim to the end, come back.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: So I swam to the end, come back as well.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: And I sort of got to the end breathing out my arse and I had an arse at that stage as well and I looked at him, I went what do you reckon?
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: He went oh my god, you go.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Shit, we've got work to do.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: And so he, he kind of got me into triathlon and I just got the bug.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And then, and then I was part of the club, part of the committee, and I and I and I, but I was never going to be a podium finisher so I was just, I'm just short and stocky, I'm not like a triathlete build, but I but I started to discover iron man and I was like you know, why don't we do an iron man in cyprus?
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: And it never been done before.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: So I, I, I set up the, the k1 man.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: It was the first ever half iron man in Cyprus and we brought the Greek and Turkish triathletes together.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: It was amazing.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: You know these people that have been fighting.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: It was amazing.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: The station commander was there.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: He'd get the prizes out and he was like, oh my God, why can't we do this?
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: And this would sort out, you know, world peace.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: So that was my first kind of another endurance event and I've done 18 Ironmans since then.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: How many 18.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: 18, yeah, but one of those was so.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: The next one was called Battleback 1000.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And that was basically the equivalent of eight Ironmans back to back.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: And again it was to raise the profile for Battleback and raise them some money.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: And so I did.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: It raised a bit of money and the guy at Headley Court, the RATO, the Rehabilitation Adventure Training Officer, a guy called Ash Ash Clare, an amazing bloke.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: He's out now.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: He's a veteran, amazing bloke, ex-raw Engineer.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: He contacted me and found out that I was a climber, had my RCI, and he said look, we're planning on going and doing this expo to Spain.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Would you want to join?
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: So I actually saw my money being used to take these 10 guys and we went out there and all 10 of the guys they're all guys, I think only one of them had his own legs.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: And we took them climbing for 10 days.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: That must have been one a great experience for them, but then two rewarding for yourself.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Just insane.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: My time in Battleback has taught me not to bitch and moan about myself, because guess what?
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: No one's trying to bitch and moan about myself, because guess what?
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: No one's trying to shoot and blow me up anymore.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: I've got both my legs, you know, both my arms.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: All right, yeah, I'm, I'm booked and I've got some things going on inside me, but there are many of those guys that would would give anything to do some of the things that I can do, and they and and I'm not saying they can't, because they can, but it's just harder them, and so I don't moan about shit that's going on in my life, so you don't moan about it.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Do you think about it?
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Think about what.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Shit that's going on in your life, or do you find that doing these challenges helps you clear your mind?
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the reason why I don't sleep is I just can't stop.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: So people have asked me about this and I tried to explain this to Hellie, this lady that I'm with now, and I tried to explain it to her.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So, to visualize it, it's like my PTSD.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: People's PTSD is different.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I know yours will be as well, but my complex PTSD is like imagine you're stood on the side of and you'll get this as a mountaineer.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Imagine you're at this beautiful tarn somewhere and you're searching around in the pebbles and you find that perfect flat round and you go right, here we go and you skim it and the pleasure of watching it skim across the water, and you're like, yeah, and if there's a load of you, you'll, you'll have a little bit of a competition who can do the most or get it the furthest.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: So my ptsd is is skimming that rock and it just never stops right, hits the blank on the other side, flips and goes through someone's car windscreen.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: But what what all of your listeners are visualizing is is is a perfect flat stone.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I'm using massive boulders and all I want is for that stone to stop and sink at some stage.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Right, Are you okay?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Buggy, and it's not there yet.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: And when I do these challenges.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: So when I did the Enduro 214, which was all the Wainwrights in one sitting in August when the two storms hit, it was all the wainwrights in one sitting in august when, when the two storms here, it was like the worst weather ever.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: The first five days I was just it, just solid rain, didn't see anyone for three days, because why would you, why would you go out in that?
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: And and of course, I had a lot of time to think about stuff.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and and and at that stage my, my wife, emma I hadn't told her I tried to take my own life.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: And I told her.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: I told her at the end and she was very upset, you know, confused, and the problem is I was going to use my insulin to OD and then not leave any wills so that my life insurance would go to Emma, the house would be sorted.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: You know, that was my thought process.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: The irony is Emma used my insulin to take her own life, so it's like I fed her and unfortunately she didn't die straight away.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: It took 12 days in hospital.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I sat by a bedside for 12 days and that's probably.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: You know, I held her in my arms when she died and that's probably the reason why I don't sleep, because that's hardwired over those 12 days, I suppose.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: And also when I did the Enduro 7, that was no sleep.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: And the reason for that is is when we've done the battle back, all of these boys and girls have got lots of stuff going on, but one of the most common denominators with all of them was sleep disruption or sleep deprivation.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Some of them want tablets to try and help and all sorts, but it was a common theme for all of them.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: So that's why I did the Enduro 7, to try and raise people's understanding that we're asking these veterans to hold up a job, look after their family, be civil, be good people, and they are in a world of pain.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and people don't understand, and you will understand this.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And that's why I'm doing the Enduro 3 again with no sleep, because, well, no one's ever done it for a start, and I just want people to sit up and listen.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just on the sleep thing, I don't think it's any any coincidence that I went to working in, working on nights, basically working on on doors, so you know, ejection technician, bouncer, whatever you know, working in that environment after a violent incident and then working in a a world of sort of potential violence, but also that thing of being up at night because I couldn't you know what I mean, and then I'd just, I'd go to sleep when I'm exhausted, or a bit of a state when I said, yeah, I am a big fan of sleep now because it plays such a part with my just controlling moods, really I suppose.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, but that took a lot of years.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I don't want to put that into anyone's mind of like, it's going to take a lot of years, but it was something that I had to get control of, otherwise I'll go in nowhere.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: So the Enduro 3 what's involved in that?
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: So basically it's paddle the Great Glen from Fort William to Inverness yeah most of my stuff I do solo.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Because do solo because I just don't have to look after anyone there and and also nobody wants to do it well, I'll be honest, that's what I said to you when I heard.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: It's like what is you're doing?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: What?
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: yeah, so.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: So there's a bit of that as well.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: So basically I'm going to paddle from fort william to inverness, turn around mountain bike the the great glen back, turn around and run back.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: The paddles just shy of 100 k's and the bike and the run same route are 125 k's.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and all with no sleep.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: So it's not a small undertaking, it's not like a small triathlon.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: But do you know what I'm like?
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to be as bad as a 2-1-4, if I'm honest, and I got really into it, you know, I got super hill fit, you know, and there was a guy called Cole amazing lad.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: He was the boss of the Floris Mountaineering Club that I'm part of and he came out about day four or five, you know, and he's a fit lad.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: He was SF himself.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I was struggling to, but I had a 25 kilogram because I had all my kit on me and I was.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: You know, I was struggling to kind of keep up with him and then by I think, he came out again day 18 and he was like oh my God, I can't keep up with you and you've got a fucking 25-kilogram Bergen on.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I've just got like a light day sack because I just got used to it.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I got used to the routine and the love of being in the mountains.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: It's always been my sanctuary, always.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's why I got back into this sort of outdoors from being a kid and I've spoke about this loads of times on the podcast, you know, from being a kid and just being out and wild and a bit feral, and then modern life and then my PTSD and then finding my way back into the mountains.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: That was such a big part, a big part of well, sort of learning to I wouldn't say sorting myself out, but learning to cope you know what I mean or learning to live with the PTSD.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: I still have my moments.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely still have my moments, but it's something that obviously played a massive part.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, the hills don't judge you.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: You stole that off my video.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: I said that on that video.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: You can't say that, sorry.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: That was John's, not mine.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: We should say that's the video that Rob Johnson film up.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: I made about my going through mountain training and sort of learning to live with my PTSD.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: And I don't want this to turn into a conversation between just ourselves, but it's like one of them things of learning to cope with it rather than trying to control it.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Or controlling it rather than fighting it.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I think I think that was my Because I had enough battles on.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Or controlling it rather than fighting it.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I think I think that was my because I had enough battles on.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Just with the traits?
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: So, and you're doing this to raise money for combat stress and for is it for just for the?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: It's for mountain rescue, but is it just for your team or?
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: For Boland.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: So this is the first time I've ever split.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: I've ever split.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I've always done all my stuff combat stress, but this time I decided just to try and split it to share the love really.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: So I know you said you're doing the challenge on your own, but are there other people doing the challenges as well?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's two people, so he'll hate this when he hears it.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Colonel, Jeff, he kind of introduced me to battle back.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: He was he.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: He when I, when I first joined the team, he was kind of running the show and we've become, you know just, he's still serving as well.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: And, and my partner now, Heli, is, I've got a van and they're going to drive my van.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Basically, they'll go to, they'll just be ahead of me at a checkpoint and I'll paddle or bike or whatever onto them, give me some scram, and then they shoot off to the next checkpoint and then we just do that for the whole event.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: How long you first of all, what date is it.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: So it starts on the 2nd of August.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: It's a Saturday.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: That's got to be mid-season up there, isn't it?
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: It's another challenge yeah, yeah.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: The thing is I planned it because at the time, I was working in education within SEND schools, okay yeah, and so I knew I would have, obviously, school summer leave, right.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: So that's why I planned it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: But I'm not I it, but I'm no longer working for those schools now.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I'm now working for Ease Group, who also deal with looking after children and adults in SEND and in trauma.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: You know they're an amazing company, so that's what I'm working for now.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: So I've had to put in a week's leave but, they've been so cool about it.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Right, so, and how long do you expect the challenge to take?
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking recovery as well.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I've actually got something else on on the Saturday, so I need to get it nipped and Colonel Jess flying out to Norway and he's like see, you know, please don't take long.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Seven days, right, it depends on the weather, because if the winds are behind us, that is going to make life easier, bearing in mind that Loch Ness is a very dangerous place to be.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: I've paddled, I've actually paddled the entire Great Glen with Colonel Jeff.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: We did it in open boats as well, and with other people.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: So I've done it, so I know it, but it's the only inland water that's got its own rnli, so that puts a bit of a combat indicator on how, how dangerous it is.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: So, and don't forget, I'm going to be paddling it solo and, and it will be through the night as well, so I'll be paddling it with a head torch on.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: It's going to be, and if the winds are against me and there's and the wakes can be up to three meters, yeah, it's, it's going to be, it's going to be honky.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: I watched a programme about.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: There's like a top wave.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: It's that deep you know there's a top wave and a bottom wave below it a few metres down and that pushes the top wave even higher.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Massive rollers that can flip a kayak over really easily.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Are you mad?
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I just I've got.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I practice rolling a few times, just to you know, and hopefully I don't fall asleep while I'm under the water, otherwise that's going to be problematic.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: That's more into submarine car, isn't it?
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I hope, I hope I can do the paddle in two days.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Right, I've done it in three and a half days before, but that was in an open boat but I was sailing as well, so it was.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: But I'm in a sea kayak so it can cut through the water pretty quick.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: And I'm training, I'm trying to train hard to break my bicep so I can.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I can paddle and then I'm hoping I can get the the mountain bike nipped in 12 hours that's, that's a breeze, then yeah then the run.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: So when I did the enduro seven, the last event was was the run and it was around the airfield at the camp I was stationed at, bearing in mind I'd done the three peaks a couple of days before and ripped my feet to pieces.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: So Les was the guy that repaired my feet.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: It took him about two hours and I did three and a half marathons in 24 hours when I did the run.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: So that's the equivalent.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: That's more than the equivalent of 100.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: So it's sorted 24 hours so you come up with these challenges yeah, yeah, because I don't sleep.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: I don't sleep.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I think it's stupid stuff to do.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: So this, this is happening in August and in two years time it's probably my last one, which will be the the Enduro.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: 282, 282.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: You all know what that is, charlie the.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Enduro 282, 282.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: You all know what that is, charlie erm, I think is that it's never been done before.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Well, it has, but not like this go on it's all the Monroes in one set right yeah, yeah, I thought it was part of a squadron.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Then, sure, there's a 28, oh no, that's.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: That's the RAS squadron I work with in London, I think.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, sorry, yeah, that that's right record.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Bloody hell, mate.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: And how quickly will you want to do them?
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: The 282?
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm allowing six weeks for that.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: What's the current record?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the difference is no disrespect to the guys.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: They've got the speed records.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: They are insane, well-running athletes.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: But the difference is they're being looked after by a support group accompanied.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: They're not really navving, they're carrying.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: You know, I want to do this off my own back, carry my kit, because that again replicates what these veterans are having to do carry their life on their shoulders and get on with it.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: And I don't want, I just don't, and again I don't want to come across as disrespectful for the guys that have done these amazing feats and and girls, because I think the quickest 214 at the moment is a lady.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I want to do this under my own power and steam and the great thing is, anyone can come and join me.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: It'll all be mapped out and wherever I am they can follow the breadcrumb and they can come and join me and walk in the hills for a couple of days, camp out if they want, do whatever they want.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: You know, that'd be amazing.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say I'd come and see you, but I don't think I'll keep up.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: To be honest, Bloody hell.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Bloody hell, sir.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: I will be doing it fairly quick because I've only got six weeks to do it.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it'll be a bit brisk.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I was saying earlier, I've got 17, 18 weeks to this marathon and I'm dreading training for that and you're doing stuff like this.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: It puts everything into perspective, though, doesn't it?
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: These challenges that you're coming up with.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: How can people sponsor you for a challenge?
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: How can they donate?
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: So if they go on to the Extreme Outdoors website and it's got a tab there Enduro 3 3 and they can just click on it tells you a little bit about why I'm doing it and who it's for, and there's a just giving button on there and it's, it's easy yeah, we'll add these links to.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll add them up and we'll obviously we'll get this out before I really appreciate that.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: you know we're living in a.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: We're living at the current time where everyone's counting the pennies and I've had this discussion with Combat Stress and said look, because last time I raised about I don't know 16, 16 and a half, 17 grand, the time before that, 24.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: The time before that, about 33.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: It's getting less and less and less and I think that trend is going to continue with the current situation.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: But if people can share it, I could rest.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: I think my skimming rock Boulder will finally sink once every single person in the UK have heard of combat stress and what they do for our veterans who are suffering in silence on a daily basis.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, and let's help get the word out, yeah, yeah, well, we're delighted to help you get the word out.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think what you're doing is like we do use these terms of superhuman.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Do you know what more?
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: As a friend, I hope you're doing this challenge and the cause that you're doing it for gives you some rest as well, and it does bring you know, it does bring this boulder to rest, I think, getting everyone in the UK.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I think you might be setting yourself a massive target.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's something to aim for, but you know.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: If anyone wants to do the 214, I've got all the mapping they can have it.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: If anyone wants to do the Enduro 3, I'm creating the mapping they can have it.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: I'm quite happy, you know, quite happy for someone else to have a go.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: You should license them and sell them.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not precious about it.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I will help anybody.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: If it means they get outside in the great outdoors, I will help them.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you should license them or sell them for a small fee.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Put them on your website as a downloadable for a quid or two quid or a fiver.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: It's a good idea, yes.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Well, if you've signed up, I'm sure you would have worked anyway, wouldn't you?
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: So it doesn't really matter.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: At least you're not sat up watching Love Island or something like that, are you?
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: At least you've been.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: I have watched Love Island.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you?
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: There's some essence on there, isn't there?
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: It's not for me, mate.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: It's not for me, I must admit.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, if I want to switch off, I will watch some sort of shit TV, and you like?
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I tend to Something I'll watch at night time all the time is Norseman.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I like First Dates for some reason.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Have you not seen it?
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I watch First Dates for some reason.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: But even that, you know we're watching First Dates.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I'm always looking into.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I always say to my wife I'm like I know why they picked that person because there's a story coming and this story's going to fall out like that.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: But that's what happens when you start running bloody podcasts about mental wellbeing, is it not?
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you always watch it.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: So, sip, what can I say?
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on, thank you for being so open, thank you for what you're doing and you know it's more an inspiration of a guy really, you know, I mean putting yourself out there and doing this for others and I suppose anyone else.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: If we can, I think we're honored just to be part of promoting the event and promoting yourself and combat stress and mountain rescue.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: So thank you be be honest, I feel really humbled that you guys have approached me and you think that I'm worthy of just being on your podcast.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I really do?
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Do you remember up at the Bay Mill Conference near York and I did my talk about the mountains and mental health and PTSD and you came up to me and spoke to me afterwards and it's like even that?
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I was like am I worthy of doing this talk and do I want to do this talk?
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: No, I don't want to do this talk, but we do it.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: But I think that's a trait of PTSD, isn't it?
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: You just don't think you Look at what you're doing.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Look at the impact that you guys are having on people and mental health well, hopefully, I think we're, we're, um, we're looking at another little project, aside projects.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's all about this, it's just giving back in it, you know I mean so there's two sides of it.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I can quickly go into it.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: It's one I suppose it's this thing about survivor guilt, and then the other side of it is it's lived experience, isn't it?
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: It's lived experience.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: So if we can speak about things that people may be starting out on on their unfortunately, people will be starting out on a mental health journey and if we can give some information to them through lived experience, then they might not make some of the mistakes that I made, you know.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: So and, to be honest, you know, mental health crisis is the new cancer and they're doing they're doing amazing things for cancer to try and get a cure, what they are they doing for mental health.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: That's where you come in, by trying to do stuff like this to raise awareness and try and put some sort of support channels out there to help people.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mean, without going, without getting, can I get ranty Without getting?
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: I won't get too ranty, but you know, for things like Battle Back and Combat Stress, we're looking at these charities to help people that have developed injuries and mental health issues through serving the country.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: And then there are charities to set up that have to look after them because the country that they've served are not helping, or am I?
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: So I've kind of been involved a little bit with Op Courage.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: That was set up, you know, and actually I was speaking today with Diane who actually set that, initiated that before it was called that, and Johnny Mercer obviously had his bit.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: And Johnny Mercer has been a massive support for me, you know.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: I've been to see him several times.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: When he found out about Emma, he sent me personal messages.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: So there are good people out there that really do understand veterans, and not just veterans, anyone that's going through crisis.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: It's just we just need to do something more.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: The only thing I can do is because this is not about me.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: I'm just a conduit for combat stress.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: All I want is everyone to know about combat stress so if they've heard of it, they might be able to turn around and say do you know what?
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: My uncle or my dad, I've noticed something.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Hey, have you heard of combat stress?
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: They're here to help you.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: And they might turn around initially and go, fuck, all wrong with me, but then they might go do you know what?
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: I might make a phone call and that's what I did and it saved my life.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: I've got to be honest because I was like fuck this, I'm tapping out that my men, my brothers, my military brothers, and my three-year-old staffie.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: That's the reason why I'm here.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Well, on that note, I mean thank you for picking the phone up and thank you to Combat Stress, so that you are still here, so that you can then go on to help the people and share your story.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Cool, thank you, sip.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: You take care.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Thanks, sip.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Quite emotionally, but stay strong, yep, and we will follow your.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: I won't be doing it and I probably won't be coming with you, but we will follow everything you're doing, so we'll keep in touch.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, buddy, take care, mate.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks, guys, and if you'd like to support us and help us keep the podcast going, then you can go to BuysACoffee or you can click that on our website, whitefoxtalkingcom, and look for the little cup.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you,