Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 234: Cane train charging: Semis loom and ABs coaching coup

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Rugby Direct Episode 234: Cane train charging: Semis loom and ABs coaching coup · Rugby Direct

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.
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Speaker 1: Straight Down the.
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Speaker 2: Middle Sky, try to.
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Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every end goal. It's Rugby
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Speaker 1: Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Navier powered by News
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Speaker 1: Talks at B.
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Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Habit Health, Visio book
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Speaker 2: today and stay in the game. Elliott Smith with me
0:45
Speaker 2: Liam Napier. We have our semi finalists sorted for Super
0:49
Speaker 2: Rugby Naps. But boy, it's been a busy Monday morning
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Speaker 2: in the inbox, hasn't it? Some big news coming out
0:56
Speaker 2: of New Zealand rugby.
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Speaker 3: Has indeed, Elliott's yeah, Super Rugby sort of what doesn't
1:01
Speaker 3: quite fade into the background.
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Speaker 4: It's the business end of the year.
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Speaker 3: But Tony Brown coming home and plenty to unpack there
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Speaker 3: and twenty twenty eight as an All Blacks assistant coach
1:12
Speaker 3: and who knows who the head coach is going to be.
1:15
Speaker 2: That's right, well, let's dive into that big surprise when
1:18
Speaker 2: that landed. Obviously, he's been a peripheral figure to the
1:22
Speaker 2: last three coaching changes for the All Blacks. When you
1:25
Speaker 2: think in twenty nineteen he was quartered potentially be part
1:30
Speaker 2: of the Ian Fosters set up twenty three, his name
1:33
Speaker 2: was mentioned again around Scott Roberson. He was aligned with
1:37
Speaker 2: Jammie Joseph Dave Renny. Earlier in the year when that
1:40
Speaker 2: change happened, there were conversations about whether we could get
1:42
Speaker 2: out of that contract and he had to front pretty
1:45
Speaker 2: publicly and say that he could and he was committed
1:47
Speaker 2: to South Africa. So finally they've got their man, albeit
1:51
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty.
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Speaker 4: Eight they have.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, Tony Brown, I think for quite a long
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Speaker 3: time now has been regarded as one of the best
2:00
Speaker 3: creative attacking mines in world rugby and it has been
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Speaker 3: a great shame that the All Blacks haven't managed to
2:08
Speaker 3: get access to him. You mentioned the backstory about how
2:13
Speaker 3: successive All Black coaches wanted him.
2:15
Speaker 4: Involved but didn't get him involved.
2:17
Speaker 3: And I think we've seen the impact he's had on
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Speaker 3: the spring Box in recent times in terms of evolving
2:24
Speaker 3: their style of play, bringing in a lot of creativity,
2:27
Speaker 3: a lot of innovation, particularly in the way that they
2:31
Speaker 3: look to use the ball, and their style of athlete
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Speaker 3: has evolved significantly as well.
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Speaker 4: So look, I think it's a coup for the All Blacks.
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Speaker 3: But it is an interesting appointment in so many different realms,
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Speaker 3: isn't it. When you look cast the head to the
2:44
Speaker 3: Greatest Rivalry Tour. I'm sure there'll be plenty of conspiracies
2:48
Speaker 3: out there in South Africa that we'll hear in the
2:51
Speaker 3: coming weeks and months, and then we'll go through to
2:53
Speaker 3: the World Cup with the spring Box before joining the
2:56
Speaker 3: All Blacks. Dave Rennie has been across disappointment, but it
3:00
Speaker 3: is interesting that there's the potential for Tony Brown to
3:04
Speaker 3: be involved with Rennie or another All.
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Speaker 4: Black's head coach.
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Speaker 3: So that probably just speaks to how keen New Zealaerogby
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Speaker 3: were to lock him up and get him involved, regardless
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Speaker 3: of what happens at the next World Cup.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, they've gone early twenty twenty eight, so the new
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Speaker 2: All Blacks coaching group hasn't even got together year. It's
3:23
Speaker 2: two years away from Tony Brown being involved. But look
3:27
Speaker 2: I like it. It's future planning from New Zealand Rugby
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Speaker 2: and look, he's a coach that is highly wanted, highly
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Speaker 2: desired right around the globe and if they didn't move
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Speaker 2: now then they potentially would be left out in the cold.
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Speaker 2: I'm sure he's going to have a number of suitors.
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Speaker 2: Although he'd said he was keen to move back to
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Speaker 2: New Zealand. You know that may you know, he can
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Speaker 2: always be swayed by an extra dollar sort an extra
3:53
Speaker 2: zero on the end of the check or whatever it
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Speaker 2: might have been. So he comes. And now my understanding
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Speaker 2: of this there is that at this point in time
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Speaker 2: now obviously the coaching set up for twenty twenty eight
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Speaker 2: hasn't been formalized apart from Tony Brown, but he is
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Speaker 2: seen as a potential addition to a coaching group, not
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Speaker 2: a someone comes in so someone's got to leave scenario.
4:15
Speaker 2: So he could be an extra voice in the coaching
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Speaker 2: group if it's retained beyond the twenty seven World Cup
4:21
Speaker 2: or that. You know, people will move on potentially and
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Speaker 2: look for different past years beyond the Rugby World Cup,
4:28
Speaker 2: but they're not tied to the fact that it's one end,
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Speaker 2: one out.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it does put that's all very well in theory,
4:36
Speaker 3: but it does put Mike Blair in particular in an
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Speaker 3: interesting position, doesn't it. Let you say, this all black
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Speaker 3: coaching team is yet to start and Mike Blair is
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Speaker 3: coming in as the attack coach, and there's no doubt
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Speaker 3: that Dave Renny will have a massive say and how
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Speaker 3: that shapes and plays out as well. But Mike Blair
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Speaker 3: two year runway to the World Cup, eighteen months or
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Speaker 3: whatever it is, and then Tony Brown is coming in
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Speaker 3: and a lot from an all black perspective, you'd hope
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Speaker 3: Tony Brown, given his credentials, given how desperate New Zeller
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Speaker 3: Rugby are, would be given full rains with the attack.
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Speaker 3: But what happens with Mike Blair and Dave Renny do
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Speaker 3: a fantastic job over the next eighteen months we saw
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Speaker 3: with Scott Robertson's team. I think the difficulties of shared
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Speaker 3: portfolios when you look at Scott Hansen and Jason o'haleran
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Speaker 3: and Leo McDonald and the way that dynamic did not
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Speaker 3: play out well.
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Speaker 4: So it is an interesting scenario.
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Speaker 3: But look, when a guy like Tony Brown wants to
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Speaker 3: come home and he's on the open market, I don't
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Speaker 3: think you can knock what new Zell and Rugby has
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Speaker 3: done at all.
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Speaker 4: I think it's a great appointment.
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Speaker 3: It's just an interesting circumstance and the way things are
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Speaker 3: going to play out.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fair point around that, because we've seen
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Speaker 2: the shared portfolios not work. Look, Mike Bleier, he's a Scotsman.
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Speaker 2: Hard to know where the Gregor Towns ends going to
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Speaker 2: stay beyond the twenty seven World Cup. Might depend on
6:00
Speaker 2: the results, might not, but I am sure that he
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Speaker 2: would be in potential conversations to take over from twenty eight.
6:06
Speaker 2: So maybe you know he's aligned for the knee eighteen
6:08
Speaker 2: months and then as an open book after that. I
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Speaker 2: guess we'll wait and see. Hidden in that media lease
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Speaker 2: as well was a mention that they've given Dave Reny
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Speaker 2: the word that they will discuss the coaching set up
6:22
Speaker 2: for beyond twenty twenty seven, not later the next year's
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Speaker 2: Rugby Championship. Doesn't mean they'll make a decision by then,
6:29
Speaker 2: but they'll have a chat with him about what the
6:32
Speaker 2: next steps are. So we're beginning to see a little
6:35
Speaker 2: more detail around how this next couple of years is
6:37
Speaker 2: going to play out.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
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Speaker 3: I think that's prudent as well. And the one person
6:43
Speaker 3: that we haven't mentioned at this point who's had an
6:47
Speaker 3: immediate impact and influencers, Don Tricker. He's been behind the scenes.
6:51
Speaker 3: He has only been appointed a matter of months. He's
6:54
Speaker 3: still juggling his other duties with baseball and the States,
6:59
Speaker 3: but he has been integral clearly and getting this Tony
7:03
Speaker 3: Brown appointment across the line, and no doubt making sure
7:07
Speaker 3: it's a smooth train experient process with Dave Rennie, which
7:10
Speaker 3: would have included mapping out a timeline to discussing the
7:13
Speaker 3: head coach role. Like you say, that doesn't guarantee anything.
7:16
Speaker 3: It doesn't sign not necessarily that new Zone rugby is
7:18
Speaker 3: going to.
7:19
Speaker 4: Go early before the World Cup.
7:21
Speaker 3: But they're going to open those conversations and it'll be
7:23
Speaker 3: interesting to see where they go, particularly given the way
7:27
Speaker 3: in which the last appointment played out with Scott Robinson
7:30
Speaker 3: and m Foss. That was incredibly messy, wasn't it, And
7:33
Speaker 3: I think everyone would acknowledge that they don't want to
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Speaker 3: repeat of that scenario.
7:37
Speaker 2: Indeed, turning Brown back from twenty twenty eight, more on
7:42
Speaker 2: those sort of things. In the final four, let's get
7:44
Speaker 2: into the semi finals rather the qualifying finals of Super Rugby.
7:49
Speaker 2: Let's go backwards and the Chiefs beating the Reds forty
7:51
Speaker 2: six to twenty four this game and the balance for
7:54
Speaker 2: a little bit, but the Chiefs ultimately kick away and unfortunately,
7:58
Speaker 2: I suspect this game Liam might be more remembered for
8:02
Speaker 2: Wallace a TT and what happened there than the fact
8:05
Speaker 2: that the Chiefs were just a little bit too good
8:07
Speaker 2: for the Reds. What did you take out of that performance?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, first of all, on Wallace, I yes, look, it's
8:14
Speaker 3: great that there has been some positivity around what happened there,
8:19
Speaker 3: the incident where he unfortunately received a double head knock,
8:24
Speaker 3: wasn't it one from the Reds lock and then one
8:28
Speaker 3: friendly fire and that caused those really distressing scenes seeing
8:32
Speaker 3: him on the ground like that shaking. Look, Rugby is
8:35
Speaker 3: a contact sport, but that was pretty stark images and
8:40
Speaker 3: we all hope that Wallace makes it full recovery, so
8:44
Speaker 3: very sort of scary scenario. And yeah, he certainly won't
8:49
Speaker 3: be available this week, and it's conventioning to see how
8:53
Speaker 3: things play up from it in the coming weeks, looking
8:55
Speaker 3: ahead to a potential final and the All Blacks. But
8:58
Speaker 3: like you said, the Chiefs, look, they got the job done.
9:02
Speaker 3: The Reds were highly competitive. I don't think the scoreline
9:05
Speaker 3: reflects the nature of that contest. The Chiefs had to
9:08
Speaker 3: tighten things up in those conditions. They went to work
9:11
Speaker 3: through their forward pack, Damian McKenzie a couple of very
9:14
Speaker 3: influential touches and set up a Grand Final rematch with
9:19
Speaker 3: the Crusaders they did.
9:20
Speaker 2: Indeed, Yeah, I was impressed by the Chiefs in the
9:23
Speaker 2: way they went about tightening things up. The reads obviously
9:25
Speaker 2: gave him a scare, and they were right in at
9:28
Speaker 2: the halftime and were beginning to threaten not being able
9:32
Speaker 2: to sort of shake them off. But there was also
9:35
Speaker 2: inevitability about the Chiefs sort of making a run, which
9:38
Speaker 2: they did obviously in the second half, and McKenzie had
9:42
Speaker 2: that run of points that he scored to really tack
9:44
Speaker 2: the game away from the Reds. In the blink of
9:46
Speaker 2: an eye, you know, the game was essentially gone. So
9:50
Speaker 2: I think it gives the Chiefs some hope as they
9:52
Speaker 2: head into the next two weeks of the season. Obviously
9:55
Speaker 2: they hope it'll end in a title in a couple
9:59
Speaker 2: of weeks, but their ability just to kick away is
10:02
Speaker 2: probably as good as the Hurricanes. I honestly, there is
10:06
Speaker 2: a good a team, but they have an ability just
10:08
Speaker 2: to take the game away from you before you realize
10:11
Speaker 2: in many ways. And the Reds are on the receiving
10:14
Speaker 2: end of that.
10:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think different contrasting styles to the Hurricanes. Hurricanes
10:19
Speaker 3: are very probably used the width and attack and offloads more.
10:25
Speaker 3: Where when things get distressing or the games and the balance,
10:29
Speaker 3: the Chiefs probably tighten things up and really go back
10:32
Speaker 3: to their forward pack that use them more. Really well,
10:35
Speaker 3: semasons Takeyaho scores for fun. Off the back of that,
10:40
Speaker 3: they can play direct. They're very physical in the carry
10:43
Speaker 3: and clean so and then they'll try and bring the
10:47
Speaker 3: Ckenzie in and give him a bit of time and
10:49
Speaker 3: space as well through that sort of approach. So the
10:53
Speaker 3: Chiefs have stood up when it's mattered most this year,
10:56
Speaker 3: and that's a good sign given how many finals they've lost,
10:59
Speaker 3: and maybe they've learned a lesson or two there.
11:03
Speaker 2: Indeed, the Reds on the other hand, look that they
11:07
Speaker 2: hang in the content. They were obviously always outsiders for
11:10
Speaker 2: that game, but ultimately didn't have eighty minutes heading across
11:14
Speaker 2: the tears and probably played out, you know, relatively as
11:17
Speaker 2: people thought it ed might.
11:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty symptomatic of the Crane's teasman contests. I think
11:25
Speaker 3: in general that we've seen this year, the Reds look,
11:29
Speaker 3: they were competitive, They had some good performances Tate McDermott,
11:32
Speaker 3: Carter Gordon, Harry Wilson. You know, some real talent in
11:36
Speaker 3: that team, but they just couldn't stick with the Chiefs
11:39
Speaker 3: long enough. And that's a tail of the tape for
11:43
Speaker 3: these For Ossie's teams, they seem to be able to
11:47
Speaker 3: hang tough for forty sixty minutes, but no match for
11:52
Speaker 3: the elite upper echelons of the Kiwi opposition for the
11:57
Speaker 3: full contest.
11:57
Speaker 2: Indeed, well, let's get to the closest game of the weekend.
12:00
Speaker 2: Twenty one points the Crusader's fifty two over the Blues
12:04
Speaker 2: thirty one Crusader's just two. I mean, obviously they had
12:09
Speaker 2: the benefit of playing against an extra man or had
12:13
Speaker 2: an extra man rather for twenty minutes in that game,
12:16
Speaker 2: in a crucial twenty minutes where they really blew them
12:19
Speaker 2: apart with three tries before halftime. At that point it was,
12:23
Speaker 2: you know, tip for tat fourteen all but the Crusaders,
12:26
Speaker 2: as soon as they got a sniff just ran rampants
12:30
Speaker 2: over the Blues and while you know, you look at
12:34
Speaker 2: that school line and go, well, they conceded thirty one.
12:37
Speaker 2: I think that was a warning sounded by the Crusaders.
12:41
Speaker 2: I don't think they're as good as the Hurricanes or
12:44
Speaker 2: necessarily the Chiefs, even though they beating them a couple
12:46
Speaker 2: of times. But I think you united in your piece
12:49
Speaker 2: of the Herald writing it up and the post match
12:52
Speaker 2: reportly and this all feels rather familiar, doesn't it.
12:56
Speaker 4: It does.
12:57
Speaker 3: Momentum and confidence and look the Crusaders there was a
13:01
Speaker 3: point following their dire tour to Australia. They came back
13:05
Speaker 3: home and I think at one point in my even
13:08
Speaker 3: completely wrote them off for the title. Elliott I still
13:10
Speaker 3: thought they'd make the playoffs, but look they've really come
13:16
Speaker 3: home and found some form.
13:19
Speaker 4: This match in particular, I felt the Blues.
13:22
Speaker 3: Started well and it was that red cards undisputable red
13:26
Speaker 3: card from Malochai Rampling that did turn the contest. But look,
13:30
Speaker 3: the Crusaders have to be good enough to pounce on
13:32
Speaker 3: that advantage, and they were. They think they scored four
13:34
Speaker 3: tries to one during that twenty minute period put the
13:38
Speaker 3: game to bed. Essentially by halftime, the Blues line out
13:43
Speaker 3: started to unravel, They falled off, fell off tackles, but
13:46
Speaker 3: the Crusaders were good enough. David Heavilli another big performance
13:50
Speaker 3: Christian Leo. We're in probably career best form. I think
13:55
Speaker 3: Sevy Reese was highly involved from the edge. Johnny McNichol
13:58
Speaker 3: gets a hat trick and the Crusaders, I don't think
14:02
Speaker 3: they'll have a lot of fear going to Hamilton. They
14:07
Speaker 3: have a good record and that rival with the Chiefs
14:11
Speaker 3: interesting to see if they can get maybe Fletcher Newle back,
14:14
Speaker 3: which would be a big in for them.
14:16
Speaker 4: But they have really hit their straps at the back
14:19
Speaker 4: end of this year, haven't they.
14:20
Speaker 2: They have, and obviously playing at home helps, but as
14:23
Speaker 2: you mentioned, I don't think they've got with too much fear.
14:25
Speaker 2: They beat a week in Chiefs seehim a couple of
14:28
Speaker 2: weeks ago. They beat a relatively strong Chiefs team earlier
14:32
Speaker 2: in the season, but they just seem to be finding
14:35
Speaker 2: their way. Lester foing Onnoku had another really strong game
14:39
Speaker 2: at open side. Flanka continue to be impressed by what
14:43
Speaker 2: he's doing there, even that high shot by Melica Rampling.
14:46
Speaker 2: Now maybe he should have gone off for an Hia check,
14:48
Speaker 2: but the mouthguards didn't trigger and we keep on going.
14:52
Speaker 2: But he was everywhere. And another player on a highlight
14:55
Speaker 2: is David Harvilly as well. Now he hasn't had the
14:58
Speaker 2: greatest of seasons, and we've touched on this a couple
15:00
Speaker 2: of times, but the last couple of weeks he has
15:03
Speaker 2: stood up big time for this Crusader's team.
15:08
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think we commented a number of times
15:11
Speaker 3: earlier in the year that he looked a bit lost.
15:14
Speaker 3: There was one really strange moment I think it was
15:17
Speaker 3: against the Hurricanes, really kick the ball out or away
15:21
Speaker 3: near the near the end of the game, which was
15:23
Speaker 3: quite baffling. But in the last few weeks, man, he's
15:28
Speaker 3: doing it all. He's providing for others, he's got time
15:31
Speaker 3: on the ball, he's making great decisions, he's really leading
15:35
Speaker 3: that team. Well. So big players step up, don't they
15:40
Speaker 3: at the back end of the year, and this is
15:41
Speaker 3: when form counts. So he hasn't really factored international conversations.
15:47
Speaker 3: Certainly last year fell out of favor under Scott Robinson.
15:50
Speaker 3: And there's a number of midfielders going around. But he
15:53
Speaker 3: does have a skill set. I think that that's not
15:56
Speaker 3: all midfielders have. I don't think he's necessarily going to
16:01
Speaker 3: crack the first All Black team of the year. But
16:02
Speaker 3: when you're looking at a wider squad and a guy
16:04
Speaker 3: with a bit of experience and leadership potential. I think
16:11
Speaker 3: he's certainly putting himself well back in that frame.
16:13
Speaker 2: Isn't here well to me, he strikes me as for
16:16
Speaker 2: that South African until the ultimate midweek captain. Look, he
16:20
Speaker 2: could he could obviously do a job view at test
16:23
Speaker 2: level and slotting really well there. But in terms of
16:26
Speaker 2: his leadership, which we see from him with the Crusaders
16:29
Speaker 2: week in week out, but also a player that maybe
16:32
Speaker 2: won't be in that first choice top twenty three but
16:35
Speaker 2: could be if needed. You know, I think he might
16:38
Speaker 2: slot in maybe as a potential midweek captain maybe for
16:41
Speaker 2: that tour. If they do announce a standalone midweek skipper,
16:45
Speaker 2: he would be sort of my pack for that because
16:47
Speaker 2: I think he's the kind of player that could lead
16:50
Speaker 2: that midweek group and get a you know, get them
16:53
Speaker 2: towards a job and keep them sort of on their
16:56
Speaker 2: toes and pushing for spots in the top team. So
16:59
Speaker 2: just a bit of foother thought, but he is playing
17:01
Speaker 2: some good rugby over these last few weeks and the
17:05
Speaker 2: Hurricane sixty six twelve over the Brumbies. Look, I don't
17:09
Speaker 2: think any of us now in your world is streams.
17:11
Speaker 2: Potentially Liam would have thought that would have gone like this,
17:13
Speaker 2: But on a wet night in Wellington, the Hurricanes made
17:18
Speaker 2: it look easy in that contest, and the Brumbies what
17:22
Speaker 2: a woe will finish to their season. You know, at
17:25
Speaker 2: one point they were odds on to be in the
17:27
Speaker 2: top two. Now they sink out in the first week
17:29
Speaker 2: really without a trace.
17:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Look, there's two ways you can look at this.
17:34
Speaker 3: You can stick the boot into the Brumbies and say
17:37
Speaker 3: how woeful they were, particularly some of those defensive efforts,
17:41
Speaker 3: Warnerdern's try one of his tries and kem.
17:46
Speaker 4: Rougate as well, just.
17:49
Speaker 3: Going straight through Rob Valentini at one point, you know,
17:53
Speaker 3: expect much better from a standout Wallabies loose forward in
17:59
Speaker 3: a day. But also don't think you can overlook some
18:01
Speaker 3: of the decision making, the execution, the pace, the movement
18:06
Speaker 3: that the Hurricanes are playing with. Obviously they were given
18:09
Speaker 3: far too much time, space and freedom, but you've still
18:12
Speaker 3: got to take those moments. You're still going to make
18:13
Speaker 3: the right decisions the end to play between the backs
18:15
Speaker 3: and the forwards.
18:18
Speaker 4: Look, this was as good as the Hurricanes have looked
18:20
Speaker 4: all year.
18:21
Speaker 3: In very very challenging conditions, and then you've got a
18:25
Speaker 3: guy like Ruben and Love kicking every conversion in those
18:29
Speaker 3: conditions as well. So him and kem roygad starting to
18:32
Speaker 3: combine really nicely as well. So not much much tougher
18:37
Speaker 3: tests to come for the Hurricanes. But when Valentonian's looked
18:41
Speaker 3: out the window on Friday night and saw the driving rain,
18:45
Speaker 3: saw the Brumbies coming in, I think there would have
18:47
Speaker 3: been a few nerves, but there was clearly no need
18:50
Speaker 3: for those.
18:51
Speaker 2: No, there wasn't sixty six points on a wetnightlight. That
18:54
Speaker 2: was exceptional. And the Hurricanes look good for every part
18:58
Speaker 2: of it. And it's going to take a special effort,
19:00
Speaker 2: I think to stop them winning the title this year.
19:03
Speaker 2: That they're playing some outstanding rugby and even with you know,
19:07
Speaker 2: Finnannger for not playing on the weekend, you know that
19:12
Speaker 2: they still can just slot players and you know Moreby's
19:15
Speaker 2: doing a job for them, Hark and all those sort
19:16
Speaker 2: of players in the back line. They've got that depth
19:19
Speaker 2: which is working out really really well for them. And
19:22
Speaker 2: Darrow say it, Jason Hollins as an attack coach or
19:26
Speaker 2: with his hands on the attack is doing some pretty
19:28
Speaker 2: special things after not being able to do much for
19:31
Speaker 2: the last couple of years with the All Blacks.
19:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and Clark laid law only enhancing his credentials.
19:39
Speaker 3: You know, had a clear plan around this team, building
19:42
Speaker 3: them up for the past three four years, keeping the
19:44
Speaker 3: nucleus of that squad. And yeah, I don't want to
19:47
Speaker 3: jinx anything, but look, if they're ever going to win,
19:50
Speaker 3: it is this year. Because they are losing a number
19:53
Speaker 3: of players plus Jason Hollins. They had a vision for
19:57
Speaker 3: this team coming together and they're starting to really come
20:00
Speaker 3: to fruish and now. So look, the only other question
20:04
Speaker 3: you need to ask here is about the Super Rugby Playoffs, Eliot,
20:07
Speaker 3: the Blues make the semifinals after four straight losses. The
20:10
Speaker 3: Brumbies were an embarrassment. None of those quarterfinals were even
20:16
Speaker 3: close in the finish. So it's not a great endorsement
20:20
Speaker 3: of the competition or the playoff format, is it.
20:23
Speaker 2: No, it's not. And I think you, yeah, well, we
20:26
Speaker 2: talked about this a little bit last week, but I
20:28
Speaker 2: think automatically, if you have three v six, four v five,
20:31
Speaker 2: you get better contest. And that would have meant the
20:34
Speaker 2: Crusaders host the Brumbies. Now the Brumbies have put fifty
20:36
Speaker 2: on a very different Crusaders side, a very different Brumby
20:39
Speaker 2: side at the start of the year, but they put
20:40
Speaker 2: fifty on them in christ Church at the start of
20:44
Speaker 2: the season. That's automatically. I think a better game for
20:48
Speaker 2: a fan perspective four v five is the Blues hosting
20:52
Speaker 2: the Reds. On the evidence of what we saw on
20:56
Speaker 2: the weekend, I think that's a very very close game
20:58
Speaker 2: and the Reds maybe even tip up the Blues at
21:01
Speaker 2: Eden Park and that changes the complexion of the next week.
21:04
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I could see the red Speed and the
21:06
Speaker 4: Blues in their current form.
21:08
Speaker 2: So then you'd have the Hurricanes playing the Reds. You'd
21:11
Speaker 2: still have Chiefs Crusaders the following week, but I think
21:15
Speaker 2: in that week one you get two better elimination games
21:18
Speaker 2: out of it, rather than the Blues, who were pretty
21:22
Speaker 2: confident they'd get a second shot at it had to
21:23
Speaker 2: wait to nine oh five on the Saturday night, but
21:27
Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily and they couldn't go in with this attitude.
21:30
Speaker 2: As we talked about last week. They couldn't go in
21:32
Speaker 2: thinking it was not knockout, but they didn't know at
21:35
Speaker 2: the back of their minds that they were likely to
21:37
Speaker 2: get a second opportunity.
21:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
21:40
Speaker 3: I think it does shine a light on the integrity
21:42
Speaker 3: of the competition and the playoff format. I completely understand
21:46
Speaker 3: that broadcasters revenue pays the bills, but there needs to
21:50
Speaker 3: be a balance between putting the fan first and retaining
21:53
Speaker 3: the integrity of the competition. So as they look to
21:57
Speaker 3: square away what happens with winner next year and look
22:00
Speaker 3: at the competition format and the playoff format, I think
22:03
Speaker 3: it needs a real spotlight on the playoffs because it
22:08
Speaker 3: can and should be a lot better.
22:09
Speaker 2: Speaking of fans, first, we're gonna put our fans first
22:11
Speaker 2: and give you a little bit of a break. We're
22:13
Speaker 2: back right after this on Ragby Direct. You're back with
22:16
Speaker 2: Rugby Direct. Time now for the Final four and MVP
22:18
Speaker 2: voting after that. But first up Final four. Dave Rennie
22:22
Speaker 2: leaves Kobe as a winner, beat Cabota in the final
22:27
Speaker 2: twenty two thirteen. I watched most of this Liam last night.
22:31
Speaker 2: It was a gritty final in many ways. It was
22:35
Speaker 2: basically decided by the kicking of the boots three penalties
22:40
Speaker 2: if memory serves in The second spell to Kobe was thirteen.
22:44
Speaker 2: All the halftime they just kicked on the threatened to
22:47
Speaker 2: score a few more tries but couldn't quite do so.
22:49
Speaker 2: It was a really gritty, tense final but impressed Brodie
22:54
Speaker 2: Ritalik Man of the match deservedly. Sooth Or Anton Lenet
22:57
Speaker 2: Brown contributed for Kobe. Ardie Savilla was impressive. Couple of
23:01
Speaker 2: big turnovers that he got, all big moments that he
23:05
Speaker 2: had in that game. So look, you know he's gonna
23:08
Speaker 2: leavebe as a winner and let's hope from a New
23:10
Speaker 2: Zealand aspective he arrives and picks up as a winner
23:13
Speaker 2: as well.
23:14
Speaker 3: That's right, and it's a real nod I think to
23:17
Speaker 3: Dave Rennie's ability to bring a team together and progress them.
23:20
Speaker 3: When he started with Kobe there were ninth. The following year, fifth,
23:24
Speaker 3: then third and now they're champions. So progressively improved and
23:28
Speaker 3: I think that's what we've seen largely throughout Dave in
23:32
Speaker 3: his tenure, probably barring the Wallabies where he was turfed
23:35
Speaker 3: well before his time. And I think it probably is
23:39
Speaker 3: an endorsement for New Zealand Rugby's decision to appoint him
23:43
Speaker 3: over Jamie Joseph. And also, yeah, like you say, good
23:46
Speaker 3: to see those all blacks and form more all blacks
23:49
Speaker 3: standing up big time and what was a tight, tense,
23:52
Speaker 3: nervy final.
23:53
Speaker 2: Indeed fascinating to see who pops up over there as well.
23:56
Speaker 2: Ash Dickson playing for Kobay now called himself for the
24:00
Speaker 2: top fourteen winner. Michael Little was there I think as well. Look,
24:05
Speaker 2: it was just quite funny just seeing a few of
24:07
Speaker 2: those players that haven't we really thought about it in
24:09
Speaker 2: a while popping up in the Japan system. Totik number
24:12
Speaker 2: two to Marsi. Farmer leaves as sevens coach in New Zealand,
24:16
Speaker 2: losing both the men's and women's finals in Bordeaux and
24:18
Speaker 2: a very confusing championship format that I don't think anyone
24:22
Speaker 2: really understands. But Tomasie Tharmer leaves, it felt liam like
24:27
Speaker 2: he never quite clicked as head coach. He's been around
24:31
Speaker 2: obviously as a wonderful player, then as an assistant and
24:34
Speaker 2: head coach once Clark Ladler left the program two or
24:37
Speaker 2: three years ago Pride to the Paris Olympics, but it
24:40
Speaker 2: never quite clicked for Tamasi Tharmer.
24:44
Speaker 4: No, and that's unfortunate.
24:46
Speaker 3: This is a guy that's been involved in that set
24:48
Speaker 3: up for the best part of twenty years now. But look,
24:51
Speaker 3: not all former players make good coaches, and Tamasi Karma
24:57
Speaker 3: hasn't had or he's had some challenges. He's said a
25:00
Speaker 3: number of those veterans move on and recent times and
25:05
Speaker 3: had to try and regenerate that squad. A lot of
25:07
Speaker 3: those players also progressed to Super rugby, so he's had
25:11
Speaker 3: to bring through young talent. But I think the men's
25:14
Speaker 3: sevens certainly needs a refresh. I've had some big losses
25:19
Speaker 3: in recent times and while yeah, they finished second in Bordeaux,
25:24
Speaker 3: the results have not been what's what do you'd expect
25:27
Speaker 3: from from an elite team, So I think a change
25:30
Speaker 3: of coach was required.
25:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the sevens program for the men's anyways
25:34
Speaker 2: stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's quite
25:37
Speaker 2: clear that the top players in this country do not
25:39
Speaker 2: want to play sevens. I don't see any other reason
25:43
Speaker 2: for it. And they want to play seven they want
25:46
Speaker 2: to play super rugby. We've seen play obviously, Moses Leo
25:51
Speaker 2: has gone on to the NRL William Warbrick as well,
25:55
Speaker 2: but it's very much seen now as a stepping stone
25:57
Speaker 2: barring a few players, and it's hard to see a
26:01
Speaker 2: way out of that. Necessarily from New Zealand. There has
26:04
Speaker 2: always been an element of that, you know, that went
26:07
Speaker 2: back to Sir Gordon Kitchens plucking these players out and
26:10
Speaker 2: then they get poached by super rugby clubs. So it
26:11
Speaker 2: feels more so than ever that the top men just
26:15
Speaker 2: do not want to play seven. That's not an attractive
26:18
Speaker 2: prospect to them. There is still a little bit of
26:20
Speaker 2: a pathway. Leroy Card is another example of that, but
26:23
Speaker 2: it's not seen as a priority for a lot of players.
26:27
Speaker 2: Until that changes, it's hard to see exactly how the
26:30
Speaker 2: program goes forward in New Zealand. The women, on the
26:32
Speaker 2: other hand, will be out losing a couple of finals
26:34
Speaker 2: to Australia in the last couple of weeks is going
26:36
Speaker 2: great guns. But yeah, the men, I've got a big
26:39
Speaker 2: question mark over its future as a program and where
26:42
Speaker 2: it goes to.
26:44
Speaker 4: Yeah.
26:44
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it needs a bit of a rething and it's
26:46
Speaker 3: a good point you make about it being seen as
26:48
Speaker 3: a stepping stone peyton spencer and a number of these
26:52
Speaker 3: young guys, there's a number of examples of them that
26:54
Speaker 3: are using it as a launch pad rather than a
26:58
Speaker 3: real career pathway.
27:00
Speaker 2: Indeed, topic number three Australia's contributions to Super Rugby this year.
27:05
Speaker 2: Are they going backwards? Lee and what do you reckon?
27:09
Speaker 4: I think there's certainly a case for it.
27:11
Speaker 3: I think in recent years we've seen the Australian teams
27:15
Speaker 3: even out with the spread of their talents.
27:17
Speaker 4: The Force were a great example of that.
27:19
Speaker 3: Took them the back end of their year was actually
27:22
Speaker 3: highly successful. They didn't start well, they had a number
27:25
Speaker 3: of close losses, but it was one of their best
27:28
Speaker 3: years in recent memory. But they cannibalized each other to
27:31
Speaker 3: a point. The Brumby started well and then shot the bed.
27:34
Speaker 3: The Warrior Tales never got going, The Reds were in
27:36
Speaker 3: fits and starts. So I think the talent has spread
27:39
Speaker 3: quite evenly across Australia and that's almost weakens. They normally
27:43
Speaker 3: have one standout team, whether it was the Brumbies or
27:45
Speaker 3: the Reds, but this year they were all pretty much
27:48
Speaker 3: mediocre and were largely swept aside fairly easily. You know,
27:55
Speaker 3: the Reds were competitive in that quarter final, but yeah,
27:59
Speaker 3: superbly desperately needs at least one strong Australian team, But
28:03
Speaker 3: at this points I'm not sure where that's going.
28:06
Speaker 4: To emerge from no.
28:07
Speaker 2: Well, we thought the Brumbies were going to that team
28:08
Speaker 2: this year, didn't we. You know, they beat all the
28:11
Speaker 2: New Zealand sides apart from the Highland the Hurricanes. But
28:15
Speaker 2: this year it proved the Australigan teams where they're undoing.
28:18
Speaker 2: They lost to the Drewer in Canberra, a game you
28:21
Speaker 2: would have expected them to win. Maybe it's time for
28:25
Speaker 2: Australia to get back to three teams potentially, maybe they
28:28
Speaker 2: had it right in the first place. I don't know.
28:31
Speaker 4: I think absolutely from a talent perspective they could.
28:36
Speaker 3: I think three teams would be ideal, but that's not
28:40
Speaker 3: ideal for the Wallabies. I think you want as many
28:43
Speaker 3: players in the shop window, developing, playing every week as possible.
28:48
Speaker 3: But I think from a financial perspective and from a
28:53
Speaker 3: genuine elite playing perspective, I think Australia is suited for
29:00
Speaker 3: three teams.
29:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a right back in the nineties.
29:04
Speaker 2: I mean, along with many other things topic number four.
29:07
Speaker 2: Do we read it anything into this for the Wallabies? Obviously,
29:11
Speaker 2: Jodsman has three games left for them in the Nation's
29:14
Speaker 2: Championship before les Kiss takes the reins. But does super
29:18
Speaker 2: form translate into international form.
29:22
Speaker 3: I think the Wallabies, if they're at full strength, if
29:24
Speaker 3: they have the availability of everyone, including some of you know,
29:29
Speaker 3: their overseas players, that they're still capable of knocking over
29:34
Speaker 3: most teams on their day. I think they'll struggle for
29:38
Speaker 3: consistency that I think they struggle for depth, and it's
29:42
Speaker 3: going to be very interesting to see how that coaching
29:44
Speaker 3: transition plays out as well. I think less Kiss has
29:48
Speaker 3: done a decent job with the Reds, but I think
29:51
Speaker 3: he's got a lot to prove as a international coach
29:55
Speaker 3: and it's a very challenging market, so yeah, it could be.
30:00
Speaker 3: I think we saw that with the Wallabies last year,
30:01
Speaker 3: didn't we. They performed well early in the year against
30:04
Speaker 3: the spring Box and the British and Irish lines. Then
30:06
Speaker 3: they've got a couple of injuries and the back end
30:08
Speaker 3: the year they really fell off a cliff. So depth
30:11
Speaker 3: and consistency I think are still big concerns for Australian
30:14
Speaker 3: rugby and the Wallabies.
30:16
Speaker 2: Agrees. Let's get into our three two ones the MVP voting.
30:22
Speaker 2: Fofo still maintains his lead, hasn't played in what three
30:26
Speaker 2: weeks now, but still out on top on sixteen points,
30:29
Speaker 2: Cam roygad on ten, Lister fing Onooku on nine, so
30:32
Speaker 2: to Lucas, Casey Warner, Durn's, Christian Lego, Willie. We do
30:36
Speaker 2: award points in the finals. So Liam your three two
30:40
Speaker 2: ones please.
30:42
Speaker 3: Well, Elliott at the back end of the year, I
30:44
Speaker 3: think you can't win well Rivers. The REHNA stepped up,
30:47
Speaker 3: didn't he for the cruses last year?
30:48
Speaker 4: But you need world class tens.
30:51
Speaker 3: You needs people to step up in those influential playmaking roles,
30:55
Speaker 3: and I think we saw that this weekend. So I'm
30:57
Speaker 3: going three to Ruben Love, I'm going two to David
31:01
Speaker 3: Villi and I'm going one to Damian McKenzie. So Christian
31:05
Speaker 3: Leo where he went close, but no Fords this weekend
31:08
Speaker 3: watch for the big boppers.
31:10
Speaker 2: It's a clean sweep of the tens. Remarkable. I'm going
31:14
Speaker 2: Camroy guard for three. Another exceptional performance from him. Johnny
31:18
Speaker 2: McNichol gets my two. I was tossing up similar to you,
31:21
Speaker 2: Havilli and also between Leo, Willie, Ethan Blackat. I had
31:27
Speaker 2: an argument potentially as well, but mcnicholl just sneaks ahead
31:30
Speaker 2: above for me and Damien McKenzie gets my one as well,
31:34
Speaker 2: so good week for Damian McKenzie bagging a couple of points.
31:38
Speaker 2: I'll throw those into the pod and see where they land.
31:40
Speaker 2: With two weeks to go in the Rugby Direct Medal,
31:43
Speaker 2: the much sought after I should add Rugby Direct Medal.
31:47
Speaker 2: That'll do us for another edition of the pod. You
31:50
Speaker 2: can get in touch via the mail bag anytime Rugby
31:52
Speaker 2: Direct at News Talk, zb dot co dot and ZED.
31:55
Speaker 2: We are back on Thursday. Nate's good to catch up
31:58
Speaker 2: as always.
32:00
Speaker 3: Indeed, Elliot look forward to chewing through everything Rugby on
32:03
Speaker 3: Thursday and making some big Bowl predictions no doubt for
32:08
Speaker 3: the semifinals, and make sure that you're on the cane
32:11
Speaker 3: train for the business end of this year.
32:13
Speaker 2: You were saying you thought I was listening to your
32:14
Speaker 2: Blue Scrusader's rematch in the final, would you?
32:17
Speaker 4: I was definitely not saying.
32:19
Speaker 2: Must have be suard you. That'll do us for Rugby
32:21
Speaker 2: directs our producers Mark Kelly and We're powered by Habitall Physio.
32:24
Speaker 2: Book today and stay in the game.
32:27
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks ed B. Listen live on
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32:32
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