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Cubs mailbag, Part 1: Where is the payroll heading? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: I think that's the type of guy you trade and
0:02
Speaker 1: then in April a bunch of injuries hit and you're like, man,
0:06
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger could have done X, Y and Z.
0:13
Speaker 2: Welcome into Northside Territory Foul Territory Network Cubs Podcast. I'm
0:18
Speaker 2: Sahad Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney, where your Cubs
0:21
Speaker 2: beat writers over at the Athletic. Patrick Winter is here,
0:26
Speaker 2: so I'm dressed appropriately.
0:30
Speaker 1: I'm out of Marriott, so I'm in in season mode.
0:33
Speaker 3: Actual. Yeah that was pretty good. Yeah, yeah, nice?
0:36
Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, we got another mail bag episode here
0:41
Speaker 2: for Thanksgiving week. We're gonna do two mail bags. You
0:43
Speaker 2: guys have a lot of questions last week. I think
0:49
Speaker 2: we did a mail bag last week or two weeks ago.
0:51
Speaker 2: The frustration wasn't nearly at the level it is now.
0:56
Speaker 2: I would a couple things before we even get into this.
1:00
Speaker 2: It's we're recording on Tuesday, November twenty sixth. Winter meetings
1:05
Speaker 2: haven't even come yet. I get the frustration when there
1:10
Speaker 2: are rumblings out there that make it seem that make
1:13
Speaker 2: it clear the Cubs aren't going after Wan Soto and
1:15
Speaker 2: Corbyn Burns and that type of talent. I'd also just
1:20
Speaker 2: caution everyone about making assumptions about where this team is headed,
1:27
Speaker 2: like they they're ninety nine point nine percent sure that
1:31
Speaker 2: they're going to look better on paper at the end
1:35
Speaker 2: of this winter. That now, if you like all the
1:39
Speaker 2: moves or not, that that's a separate that's a separate debate.
1:43
Speaker 3: But they haven't.
1:44
Speaker 2: They've made a couple of smaller moves to help the bullpen.
1:47
Speaker 2: I would not I would not react like this offseason
1:50
Speaker 2: has already been decided. We'll we'll get into where your
1:54
Speaker 2: frustrations lay and maybe try and explain some things, because
1:56
Speaker 2: I think some things have kind of been twisted over
1:59
Speaker 2: the past cup weeks with what we've written, with what
2:01
Speaker 2: Ken's written, and of course a report from Bob Nightingale,
2:07
Speaker 2: our good friend. You know, it's easy to twist these
2:10
Speaker 2: things and get to a really negative place. And I'm
2:13
Speaker 2: not saying you shouldn't be in a negative place. I'm
2:15
Speaker 2: just saying I don't think it's as bad says some
2:18
Speaker 2: fans have have turned turned it to Patrick.
2:21
Speaker 3: Should we just get to the questions here?
2:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it.
2:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So the first.
2:26
Speaker 2: One from Peyton Coopman, who is more likely to get
2:29
Speaker 2: traded Cody Bellinger or Nico Horner.
2:34
Speaker 1: I honestly think both are doubtful or unlikely. I would
2:39
Speaker 1: say that some team may want Nico more at shortstop
2:44
Speaker 1: and maybe willing to overlook a very uncertain rehab. I
2:50
Speaker 1: think with Bellinger, the money, his volatility year to year
2:54
Speaker 1: is too much. Although we'll see where Jan Soto signs.
3:00
Speaker 1: That could happen, you know, by the end of the
3:02
Speaker 1: winter meetings, and maybe some teams could pivot as you've written,
3:05
Speaker 1: as I've written, and say, well, maybe Bellinger for a
3:09
Speaker 1: year or two could help, you know, bridge a team
3:16
Speaker 1: until the next big free agent. But I'm still I
3:20
Speaker 1: feel part of this is just sort of like the
3:22
Speaker 1: vacuum of kind of the off season before stuff really
3:27
Speaker 1: starts happening, and just how stuck the Cubs are. I
3:30
Speaker 1: think you've made this clear, like they don't really want
3:33
Speaker 1: to trade either of these guys, Like they there's no
3:38
Speaker 1: like negative personality conflict going on right right, It's just
3:43
Speaker 1: they're sort of stuck and they don't have no trade
3:47
Speaker 1: clauses the way several of their key players do.
3:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you that I think Nico may
3:53
Speaker 2: have more value on the trade market yeah, for sure.
3:57
Speaker 2: You know when when you can market him as a
3:59
Speaker 2: shortstop even with the injury, assuming that a team is
4:03
Speaker 2: able to look at the medicals and say like, yeah,
4:06
Speaker 2: we're not concerned here, he'll be ready by April fifteenth.
4:10
Speaker 2: I'm throwing out a number. I'm throwing out a date
4:13
Speaker 2: that's not a real date that we have.
4:15
Speaker 3: We're good with this. You know, we'll take two weeks.
4:19
Speaker 2: We'll take losing two weeks for a plus defensive short
4:22
Speaker 2: stop that can make a ton of contact and steal
4:24
Speaker 2: a ton of bases.
4:26
Speaker 3: I think there's value there.
4:28
Speaker 2: I don't think the Cubs are as aggressively moving or
4:33
Speaker 2: as aggressively trying to move Horner as they are with Bellinger.
4:38
Speaker 2: We'll get into that right now, Patrick that the next
4:43
Speaker 2: question is why are the Cubs desperately trying to trade
4:46
Speaker 2: Bellinger when we who are the Cubs already have close
4:50
Speaker 2: to fifty five million available before the luxury tax. Okay,
4:54
Speaker 2: we got into this last week, and I think it's
4:58
Speaker 2: something that's just important to get in to continually.
5:01
Speaker 3: I think.
5:04
Speaker 2: Jed Hoyer and Carter Hawkins and this front office kind
5:07
Speaker 2: of expected Cody Bellinger to opt out. Now that doesn't
5:10
Speaker 2: mean they didn't plan for him topped in. That doesn't
5:13
Speaker 2: mean that they were like completely blindsided and like, oh no,
5:16
Speaker 2: what do we do? I think their hope, like you said,
5:20
Speaker 2: is that they can market him as the number two
5:23
Speaker 2: outfielder after Juan Soto, you know, like Santanderer and Taoskar
5:29
Speaker 2: Hernandez have something to say about that. Of course, neither
5:32
Speaker 2: of them can play center field. They don't have the
5:35
Speaker 2: versatility that Cody Bellinger has. I'll say this, we'll get
5:41
Speaker 2: into the luxury tax thing. I wonder how much of
5:46
Speaker 2: what we're seeing Ken had it. We've been hearing it,
5:50
Speaker 2: Bob had it. Teams don't want to deal with this
5:53
Speaker 2: contract like it's some albatross. I don't buy that as much.
5:58
Speaker 2: I feel like that's trying to uh cloud the market
6:02
Speaker 2: and and and make it seem like he's like some
6:05
Speaker 2: untradable piece. I'm not buying that. Like, yeah, I get
6:09
Speaker 2: it's a one like one year, it doesn't matter. In
6:11
Speaker 2: a second year. Oh maybe if he's bad, that drops
6:14
Speaker 2: his you know, he's gonna opt in. And I'm sorry,
6:17
Speaker 2: I just don't think like he's some albatross contract that
6:20
Speaker 2: destroys Uh you know, everyone's desire to like spend like
6:26
Speaker 2: they just crushes everyone's payroll. I don't know if you
6:33
Speaker 2: agree with that or not. Patrick, I think sometimes we
6:37
Speaker 2: can be listen, we have to report what we hear.
6:40
Speaker 2: But I also think sometimes we can be leveraged as
6:44
Speaker 2: media too.
6:47
Speaker 3: Never never yeah, yeah.
6:49
Speaker 2: So I don't doubt that, Like we've like we have
6:53
Speaker 2: heard all these things. It's just sometimes I wonder, it's
6:55
Speaker 2: like I hear it over and over again. I'm like,
6:58
Speaker 2: is it really that bad as it earned so negative
7:02
Speaker 2: that that people really think, like I can't touch that contract.
7:06
Speaker 2: It's not It's not seven years at most, it's two
7:09
Speaker 2: years and fifty million bucks.
7:13
Speaker 1: Well, it's going to be a pretty big number. I mean,
7:15
Speaker 1: depending on how you know a potential negotiation would shake
7:20
Speaker 1: out in terms of paying it down bad contract, going
7:22
Speaker 1: back the level of the prospect or two included in
7:28
Speaker 1: the deal. I just think there's like, why did Cody
7:30
Speaker 1: Bollinger come back to the Cubs. Why did he right
7:34
Speaker 1: all the way back to the beginning. Why was he
7:36
Speaker 1: non tendered by the Dodgers. Why did he come back
7:39
Speaker 1: to the Cubs at the start of spring training last year?
7:42
Speaker 3: Why did he opt in for next year.
7:43
Speaker 1: There is, you know, fair or not, some hesitation out
7:50
Speaker 1: there about what's what would you be getting for salary
7:56
Speaker 1: number X, depending on you know, how it shakes out
7:59
Speaker 1: in in those negotiations, And it's like the teams that
8:04
Speaker 1: are super data driven are going to have concerns about
8:08
Speaker 1: the quality of contact. He's not old, but he is
8:13
Speaker 1: thirty next year. I think you sort of wonder, like,
8:15
Speaker 1: have you already seen the best of Cody Bellinger?
8:20
Speaker 3: I don't know.
8:21
Speaker 1: Watching him play every day and particularly on this Cub's roster,
8:25
Speaker 1: I think it's a nice piece to have. Like you say,
8:29
Speaker 1: there aren't like who's name a better center field option
8:33
Speaker 1: out there that's like available. They're just very scarce left
8:38
Speaker 1: handed hitter, playoff experience, like all these things. So I actually,
8:41
Speaker 1: I don't think the Cubs are desperately trying. I think
8:45
Speaker 1: they're eager to hear what's out there. I think they
8:48
Speaker 1: would certainly like to repurpose that money. But at the
8:55
Speaker 1: same time, I think that's the type of guy you trade.
8:58
Speaker 1: And then in April a bunchunch of injuries hit and
9:01
Speaker 1: you're like, man, Cody Bellinger could have done X, Y and.
9:04
Speaker 2: Z, right, right, Yeah, no, I think we're also starting
9:09
Speaker 2: to downgrade his value on the field for this team,
9:12
Speaker 2: just thinking about him as a contract number instead of
9:16
Speaker 2: in payroll, instead of his production. And just to touch
9:20
Speaker 2: on this, the Cubs have yeah, close to fifty five
9:23
Speaker 2: million available. You sign one picture, good picture. Half of
9:27
Speaker 2: that is almost gone, okay, and then you want to
9:31
Speaker 2: have So let's let's get into payroll, because here's the
9:36
Speaker 2: next question.
9:37
Speaker 3: Patrick, go ahead and read it.
9:40
Speaker 1: All right, The rumbling seem to be pointing towards cutting salary.
9:43
Speaker 1: I just can't understand why. I'm not asking for it
9:46
Speaker 1: to make sense. Instead, I'm asking for you to paint
9:48
Speaker 1: me a best case scenario off season.
9:51
Speaker 2: Okay, I couldn't fit in the name there. I think
9:53
Speaker 2: that was Shane. I apologize if that wasn't Shane. We
9:58
Speaker 2: got a lot of questions. Can't even go through Twitter
10:01
Speaker 2: and find find out exactly who that was. But so
10:04
Speaker 2: let's let's deal with the first part of this, right,
10:07
Speaker 2: cutting salary. So, if let's say it's fifty five million
10:11
Speaker 2: left right now, and they're they're trying to get rid
10:14
Speaker 2: of Bellinger, trying to move Bellinger's salary to open it
10:17
Speaker 2: up to like almost eighty five million. Okay, that's you
10:22
Speaker 2: touch on it. They just want more payroll flexibility. They're
10:25
Speaker 2: not like fifty five million goes quickly when you have,
10:29
Speaker 2: say they want to sign a pitcher, and then what
10:32
Speaker 2: if they want like a depth Yeah, yeah, they're still
10:37
Speaker 2: like Matt Tyce isn't the answer at catcher, right, bullpen
10:41
Speaker 2: happens quickly if they want to add like different pieces
10:45
Speaker 2: on the bench, right, because I don't think they want
10:48
Speaker 2: to start the season with these kids as the bench pieces,
10:52
Speaker 2: because they want them as depth, but they don't want
10:55
Speaker 2: them sitting on the bench at the major league level.
10:59
Speaker 2: So there's it's going to be a few more like that.
11:02
Speaker 2: Money goes quickly. It just it flies off the payroll quickly,
11:08
Speaker 2: and you need to find the right player suspended on.
11:11
Speaker 2: They're looking for more flexibility there to do different things.
11:16
Speaker 2: Whether that's the right move to get rid of Bellinger
11:19
Speaker 2: or not. You know, I'd need to see what more happens.
11:24
Speaker 3: I said this last time.
11:25
Speaker 2: I kind of looked at it as if they're moving
11:27
Speaker 2: Bellinger and they don't get anything of significance really in
11:31
Speaker 2: return other than payroll flexibility.
11:35
Speaker 3: That basically is.
11:36
Speaker 2: The beginning of the off season. In my mind, it
11:39
Speaker 2: looks like, okay, this is how it would look like
11:42
Speaker 2: if he opted out. So you know what's an ideal
11:48
Speaker 2: a best case scenario off season for me?
11:51
Speaker 3: Right now?
11:52
Speaker 2: It's it's it would be it would be finding a
11:57
Speaker 2: way to get no doubt outstarter that looks like a
12:02
Speaker 2: two sometimes but as you know, you feel comfortable saying
12:05
Speaker 2: he's a three, right. It'd be getting two more legitimate relievers,
12:11
Speaker 2: one with some closing experience. Doesn't have to be a
12:14
Speaker 2: lockdown closer, but just someone or at least someone that
12:16
Speaker 2: looks on the precipice of like, hey, this guy can
12:19
Speaker 2: handle the high leverage, we're gonna give him save opportunities
12:23
Speaker 2: and spread it around to him, Porter Hodge and whoever
12:26
Speaker 2: I'm missing, you know. And then and then it would
12:30
Speaker 2: be finding a way to get another bat in the lineup,
12:34
Speaker 2: whether that is something smaller like Michael Conforto or something
12:40
Speaker 2: you know, via trade. And when I talk about a picture,
12:45
Speaker 2: I like adding a starting picture that could be via
12:49
Speaker 2: trade too, well, you have to consider that. Don't just
12:52
Speaker 2: assume that they're gonna So that's that's a way that
12:55
Speaker 2: if they don't move Bellinger's contract, if you add picture
13:00
Speaker 2: that's like, areb eligible that you feel good about, then
13:04
Speaker 2: you can spend a little bit more money and find
13:06
Speaker 2: a way to add a bat.
13:07
Speaker 3: I'm just like that.
13:09
Speaker 2: These are realistic scenarios, right These are not dream scenarios.
13:14
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say go get Anthony Santander and
13:17
Speaker 2: sign Max free because I don't think they're They're They're
13:20
Speaker 2: not going to be aggressive with the qualified offer guys.
13:23
Speaker 2: I don't think they're shopping at that level right now.
13:27
Speaker 2: I think things can change if they move Bellinger. I
13:30
Speaker 2: just don't know what that looks like or what that means.
13:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think part of their strategy has been
13:40
Speaker 1: to just be patient and see what happens in January
13:43
Speaker 1: when players and agents have to scramble when other team's
13:47
Speaker 1: more impacted by the cable TV situation, if they're sidelined.
13:56
Speaker 1: Like you say, Conforto is one of the names our
14:00
Speaker 1: colleague here and not the athletic Ken Rosenthal mentioned in
14:02
Speaker 1: terms of the braves of like looking at outfielders, Like
14:06
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of the thing with Bellinger right Like,
14:09
Speaker 1: if he was a free agent right now, like what
14:11
Speaker 1: would he get, Like probably not thirty plus million a year, Right,
14:15
Speaker 1: you could probably get more than two.
14:17
Speaker 3: But like.
14:20
Speaker 1: There are guys out there that they may see if like, oh,
14:22
Speaker 1: that would be like a nice piece like for this
14:24
Speaker 1: particular group. And I do think they'll be able to
14:29
Speaker 1: pounce on those. And we've written this before. The trade
14:33
Speaker 1: market will open up for them, Like they have a
14:38
Speaker 1: lot of trade chips, they have needs, they have relationships
14:43
Speaker 1: to try and go after.
14:44
Speaker 3: You know that picture you're talking about.
14:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you talk about waiting and being patient, I
14:51
Speaker 2: think that's going to trigger Cubs fans for sure, and I.
14:54
Speaker 3: And I get it. Yeah, I'd like it would be
14:57
Speaker 3: annoying to watch.
14:58
Speaker 2: Again, like no real significant moves at least have made
15:02
Speaker 2: some smaller moves here. We can't we can't make the
15:05
Speaker 2: how much did we have or the like they're one
15:07
Speaker 2: of like two teams that hasn't added the player to
15:10
Speaker 2: the forty man it's.
15:11
Speaker 1: Only like the second inning of the offseason.
15:13
Speaker 2: Right yeah, yeah, yeah, so at least they we can't
15:18
Speaker 2: use that as an argument anymore. Is it a Tom
15:23
Speaker 2: Ricketts problem or a Jed Hoyer problem? If it's true
15:26
Speaker 2: the team wants to get back under the luxury tax
15:30
Speaker 2: next year, Yeah, you know, I think they they may
15:34
Speaker 2: be under the luxury tax next year because it goes
15:36
Speaker 2: up four million from last year, and I think they're
15:41
Speaker 2: going to be hovering around. They're going to end up
15:43
Speaker 2: hovering around where they were last year. I think that
15:47
Speaker 2: is kind of that. This was my understanding, but well
15:51
Speaker 2: before they'd really finalized the budget, So I don't know
15:55
Speaker 2: how much that's changed. If it's changed dramatically. Obviously, by
16:00
Speaker 2: the way they've been behaving and the signals they're sending out,
16:03
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like it's changed dramatically.
16:08
Speaker 3: In either direction. But who listen, Tom Rikins gives you
16:14
Speaker 3: a hoy or a.
16:14
Speaker 2: Budget, and he has money to spend and he has
16:17
Speaker 2: to spend it as he sees fit. Right, And that's
16:19
Speaker 2: a budget for everything right all around, you know, whether
16:28
Speaker 2: it's manager, yeah, the manager, the front office, how they
16:33
Speaker 2: set all that stuff up. You know, I think that's
16:39
Speaker 2: who is it a problem? You can you could make
16:43
Speaker 2: an argument on either side.
16:45
Speaker 3: Right.
16:45
Speaker 2: You could say, like Jet isn't spending it the way
16:48
Speaker 2: he should. You can make that argument he go get
16:51
Speaker 2: better players. I come back to an argument I made before. Yes,
16:55
Speaker 2: he's spent about two hundred and forty million dollars on
16:57
Speaker 2: this payroll. There were not many young players that were
16:59
Speaker 2: emerging yet. And the combo ideal combo is you spend
17:03
Speaker 2: your payroll and then you have super cheap young talent
17:07
Speaker 2: coming up as well. So you have the paid players,
17:09
Speaker 2: the well paid players, veterans Ian Hap Saya, Suzuki Dansby Swanson,
17:16
Speaker 2: Jameson Tyne, those guys, and then you have and then
17:19
Speaker 2: you have the rookies, the young players Pete ro Armstrong,
17:22
Speaker 2: Miguel Amaya next year, Matt Shaws, Is Biastero's maybe Kate Horton. Right,
17:29
Speaker 2: those guys are are so much more affordable, and now
17:33
Speaker 2: you're talking about a two hundred and forty million dollars
17:34
Speaker 2: payroll that looks a lot different. That's what I want.
17:37
Speaker 2: I want to see what they can do when they
17:39
Speaker 2: have that combo. Is this is their plan coming to
17:42
Speaker 2: fruition or not? I like through like Tom Ricketts's.
17:48
Speaker 3: You know, I'll let you.
17:51
Speaker 1: I think they're I think they're tied together in a
17:54
Speaker 1: lot of ways. I think their like outlooks on this
17:57
Speaker 1: are not totally dissimilar in terms of like resetting the
18:04
Speaker 1: market with you know, fourteen year contracts like Jed's concerns
18:10
Speaker 1: and hesitations, I think are very similar to Tom's, and ultimately,
18:16
Speaker 1: you know, Jed's the one who has to operate within
18:19
Speaker 1: that structure. I think, from ownership's perspective, two hundred and
18:25
Speaker 1: forty million is exponentially more than anyone else in their division,
18:30
Speaker 1: and therefore more than enough to win the division, even
18:34
Speaker 1: though historically that hasn't really proven to be.
18:39
Speaker 3: The case. And so.
18:43
Speaker 1: On the other hand, I think Jed has been a
18:45
Speaker 1: good company man. I think he's pretty loyal to the
18:50
Speaker 1: organization and has kind of presented a plan to ownership
18:54
Speaker 1: which they signed off on, and he has I think
18:58
Speaker 1: done it in a way that makes sense from ownership's perspective.
19:03
Speaker 1: And so that's why, of course, this is a huge
19:07
Speaker 1: offseason for this front office. It's a huge year for
19:09
Speaker 1: them to make the playoffs or not. The results and
19:14
Speaker 1: accountability matter. But it's also like it's not like Jed's
19:19
Speaker 1: gone rogue here or that, like he hasn't been surprised
19:21
Speaker 1: by what the Rickets are doing like this is. I
19:25
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of uh kind of ownership in
19:28
Speaker 1: this from both the business side and the baseball side,
19:31
Speaker 1: and I think it's kind of would be unfair to
19:33
Speaker 1: totally pin it on one or the other, even though
19:35
Speaker 1: that's probably what will happen if they don't win next year.
19:39
Speaker 2: Right, And here's the similar question, why are the Rickets
19:43
Speaker 2: operating the Cubs like the team is based in Pittsburgh. Look,
19:49
Speaker 2: I think there's so much nuance here and I think
19:51
Speaker 2: it's unfair to go to the extremes right at Pittsburgh.
19:56
Speaker 2: I want to say they had a payroll of like
19:58
Speaker 2: seventy five million last year. What happens in Pittsburgh is
20:03
Speaker 2: extremely embarrassing and frustrating to see from afar, and I'm
20:07
Speaker 2: sure the fan base there and everyone is not happy
20:13
Speaker 2: with the way they do things. They have a lot
20:15
Speaker 2: of young talent and they're not spending any money to
20:18
Speaker 2: upgrade around them. That's maddening. Right, At least the Cubs
20:24
Speaker 2: are spending. It's what I said before. They're spending, and
20:28
Speaker 2: your fans are understandably not happy with the results. Right,
20:34
Speaker 2: they're spending not at the level that I think they
20:37
Speaker 2: should that many of you think they should. I think
20:40
Speaker 2: they should be just below the Mets and the Dodgers.
20:45
Speaker 2: I think that'd be nice if they were a top
20:47
Speaker 2: five payroll. They're like a top ten right around there payroll.
20:51
Speaker 2: So it's not as extremely bad as like, this is
20:54
Speaker 2: the cheapest owner, what a joke.
20:56
Speaker 3: But it's also not.
20:59
Speaker 2: Hey, you own all of Wrigleyville and and and fill.
21:03
Speaker 3: That ballpark up.
21:05
Speaker 2: Marquee is probably not doing as well as hoped, but
21:08
Speaker 2: not doing as terribly as every other you know, you know,
21:13
Speaker 2: outlet around the game outside of like the Dodgers and
21:17
Speaker 2: a select few, right like most everyone else is not
21:20
Speaker 2: making any money from their TV companies if they even
21:23
Speaker 2: have one their TV deal, So you know, it's that
21:29
Speaker 2: they have a nice situation financially. They're not spending like
21:34
Speaker 2: Steve Cohen, and that's just the reality. It's not gonna happen.
21:39
Speaker 2: I also, I don't think it's helpful to compare them
21:43
Speaker 2: to like just not spend at all, because it muddies
21:47
Speaker 2: up the waters and it's just like there's nuance here.
21:52
Speaker 1: I think the way to reframe it for Fraying David's
21:55
Speaker 1: question would be why aren't the Ricketts operating the Cubs
21:58
Speaker 1: like the yes ownership groups in Philadelphia and San Diego?
22:04
Speaker 1: And we'll see how the Padres move forward over the
22:08
Speaker 1: next couple of years, and you know whether that does
22:12
Speaker 1: cripple their operation, but you've seen the energy yet Petgo
22:16
Speaker 1: Park and how good that team has been and how
22:19
Speaker 1: they were able to like reimagine it on the fly.
22:23
Speaker 1: Philadelphia was a straight ownership decision to say, yeah, we're
22:27
Speaker 1: going for it, and they have Dave Dombrowski who's very
22:29
Speaker 1: good at kind of twisting ownership's arm to spend.
22:34
Speaker 3: More money.
22:35
Speaker 1: Again, we'll see with Philadelphia like what sort of cliff
22:38
Speaker 1: they're approaching or not. And you're right, like this just
22:44
Speaker 1: does come down to ownership, Steve collenk the Meths, you know,
22:47
Speaker 1: we're you know, a second team in that town and
22:50
Speaker 1: maybe they always will be, but the gap is certainly
22:53
Speaker 1: closing where they can go, you know, dollar for dollar,
22:56
Speaker 1: player for player with the Yankees. And you know, I
23:00
Speaker 1: do think what you alluded to earlier, sat of is relevant.
23:04
Speaker 1: Of Okay, when the Caid Horton's and the Matt Shaws
23:09
Speaker 1: are on those minimum salaries again, how are they gonna
23:15
Speaker 1: really like turbo charges this roster because that was the
23:19
Speaker 1: big thing in twenty sixteen. Right, If you have Chris
23:21
Speaker 1: Bryant and Hobby Bias and Addison Russell, all these guys
23:25
Speaker 1: making virtually nothing, and then they kind of went for it.
23:29
Speaker 1: And that would probably be Jed's argument here or his
23:34
Speaker 1: presentation to ownership and the fan base of like, all right, once,
23:38
Speaker 1: once these pieces are in place, you know p Crow
23:41
Speaker 1: Armstrong before as a pre arbitration player, for example, Michael Bush,
23:48
Speaker 1: you'd have after twenty twenty six, some of these guys
23:51
Speaker 1: who were paid the higher aav to come to Chicago
23:56
Speaker 1: and kind of dress up the product and make it
23:59
Speaker 1: look a little more spect those things fall off as well,
24:02
Speaker 1: and then I think maybe you'd see the Cubs unleash
24:06
Speaker 1: to a certain extent. Not always fair to like drop
24:11
Speaker 1: Theo's name in these things, but he clearly was a
24:14
Speaker 1: catalyst for a lot of what happened in that area.
24:17
Speaker 1: And it's kind of to be determined how they'll operate
24:21
Speaker 1: when that similar, if a similar opportunity presents.
24:25
Speaker 2: Itself, right, And and I just wanted to touch on
24:28
Speaker 2: this before we wrap up the episode, but you you
24:31
Speaker 2: kind of touched on it a couple of times here.
24:34
Speaker 2: People like Dave Dombrowski have a way about them that
24:37
Speaker 2: that they're able to get more out of their owner.
24:40
Speaker 2: They're able to like kind of sell it to the owner, like, no,
24:43
Speaker 2: let's let's go for this in a different way.
24:46
Speaker 3: Let's let's push all in. Uh. Let's uh.
24:50
Speaker 2: And THEO had that ability, right, THEO was really good
24:53
Speaker 2: at that and then it stopped working and and I
24:58
Speaker 2: don't and I don't think they was thrilled about that.
25:02
Speaker 2: And Jed kind of is like, these are my working
25:04
Speaker 2: parameters and I'm not going to you know, I don't
25:08
Speaker 2: know if it's Jed not pushing or Jed just saying like,
25:10
Speaker 2: this is the reality that I'm faced with and I'm
25:13
Speaker 2: not going to bother to deal with it. But that's
25:17
Speaker 2: a real thing, you know, having a front office, having
25:20
Speaker 2: you know, head of baseball ops that's able to kind
25:22
Speaker 2: of push the owner, and having an owner that's willing
25:25
Speaker 2: to be pushed.
25:27
Speaker 3: I think Tom Ricketts was.
25:29
Speaker 2: That owner pre twenty sixteen and maybe even post twenty
25:34
Speaker 2: sixteen when you talk about you Darvish.
25:35
Speaker 3: But something changed.
25:37
Speaker 2: Maybe it was just as simple as that twenty eighteen season,
25:41
Speaker 2: and maybe maybe that was what it was that kind
25:44
Speaker 2: of changed the way he looks at it.
25:46
Speaker 3: Maybe is that.
25:48
Speaker 2: Combined with seeing teams like Tampa Bay and Cleveland and
25:52
Speaker 2: Milwaukee do it the way they do it. But you
25:55
Speaker 2: know it's clear that he's not going to spend like
25:58
Speaker 2: the Padres in the Phillies, and it'll always just be
26:02
Speaker 2: a talking point of like look at the Diamondbacks, look
26:05
Speaker 2: at the Rays, look at Cleveland, whatever it may be,
26:08
Speaker 2: that year's talking point may be all right. Thanks for
26:12
Speaker 2: listening everyone, Thanks for watching on YouTube. Make sure to
26:15
Speaker 2: rate review, Subscribe to North Side Territory, Subscribe on YouTube.
26:19
Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick and I will be
26:23
Speaker 2: covering everything all off season, all things Cubs. Truly appreciate
26:28
Speaker 2: everyone that listens.
26:29
Speaker 3: Thanks