Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Colin Blunstone

Transcript

Colin Blunstone · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Searts Podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My guest today is Colin Blumstone, lead singer of The
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Zombies and so Much Moork. Colin, you just said you
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: realize you have allergies. Tell me about that.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Well, just know, I've been forty eight hours in Los Angeles.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I've realized I don't know anything about allergies. Is it
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: hay fever or whatever. But I just realized I do
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: suffer from that. And I was just going to apologize
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: to you in case I started sneezing while we're doing this,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: while we're doing this interview. That was all I was
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: going to say, was if I start sneezing, I've just
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: realized that I have this problem.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: You know, there are pills for that now, but it
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: begs the question, why would you not have a problem
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: in England, a different weather, different thing.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: You know, I think I have had this problem, but
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I've thought, for some strange reason, I've thought I've got
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: a cold rather than I've got allergies. It's just the
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: realization that, yeah, hay fever affects me. And I'm seventy
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: nine years old and I've just found that out, which
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: is a bit embarrassing.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Really. How's your health otherwise?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Actually pretty good. I have to say the usual aches
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: and pains that people coming into the autumn of their
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: careers will suffer from, but generally speaking pretty good.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, okay, you know, we are a generation they
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: thought we were going to rule till we die, but
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: we are going to die. Okay. So I found I
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: turned sixty and it was like I've seen the trick.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: But once I turned seventy, it's a whole new thing.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: So what's your perspective of aging?
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I think my wife always says it's just a number.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: If I try to talk about it with her, It's
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: just a number. Just get on with it. I think.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Actually that's important things to just keep busy, you know,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: find something that intrigues you, interests you, and throw yourself
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: into it. That's what I would say, and that's what
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I try and do. I love music. I'm always trying
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: to write. I'll record at the drop of a hat,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: and I'll tour at the drop of the hat too.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I love doing that and as a complete alternative, it's
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: just great. When I'm not working, I love to be
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: at home with my family.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: So Rod Hargen had a stroke. He's not hitting the
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: road anymore, that's right. So to what degree are you working,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: whether it be live or recording.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I've always had a solo band, I'll be honest
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: with you. I've never said this to Rod, but I
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: wondered how long he would keep touring because I was
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: very successful songwriter. He's been a very successful producer in
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: his time. He really doesn't need to be getting out
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: on the road and not sleeping and all the things
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: that go with being out on the road. But he
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: loves playing. And we got together in nineteen ninety nine,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: and I wondered how long he would keep touring, and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: we've kept it going to twenty twenty four. It was
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: last year that he had his stroke. But I wondered
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: how long he would keep touring, and so I always
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: kept a solo bang going. I've sort of had that
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: tucked up my sleeve, and so now I slipped back listen.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I would have loved to kept this Zombisky for as long.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: We always said that for as long as we're physically capable,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: we want to keep this guying. We're having such a
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: great time, and also it's so unexpected. The band finished
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: in sixty seven. It's insane. What are we doing playing now?
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I don't understand. It's a mystery, but I don't have
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: to understand it. I love it, so let's keep going.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: But I always get when there's a break. I would
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I would tour and record with my solo ban which
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: I must admit. The band has changed personnel over the years,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: as these band as bands do, but it's a really
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: nice group of guys at the moment. I've just come
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: back from Germany and Holland. Just a few days before
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I came over here and I was with my solo man.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: It was great, playing a completely different program to what
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I would play with the Zombies. I play. She's not
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: their time of the season. This will be our year.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: That's about it. Otherwise it's completely different tunes and it's
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: it's nice to to break things up and do you
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: know a completely different repertoire?
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: So you playing in Germany? Do they know your solo
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: material the audience.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I wish you hadn't asked me about Germany. Actually, it
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: is not one of my not one of my great
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: success areas some doing some don't should we say that?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: But if you wishes mentioned Holland, it's a different, different
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: kind of fish. It always intrigues me. These countries are
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: right next door to one another, or you can say
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Holland and Belgium. They have different hits, they know different artists,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: and you have to be aware of where you're going.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: What do they know any of your songs? And if
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: they do, what songs are they because they'll be expecting
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: to hear them. And in Holland, I've had a lot
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: of hits and it's always a thrill to go back there.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Let's say you're playing like someplace like Germany where the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: audience doesn't know all your material. How do you perform
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: such that you win them over and keep their attention.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the first thing is to have a
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: bit of a pep talk before you go on stage
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: and you just say, okay, come on, guys, this we've
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: really got to pull it out of the bag this time.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Attle bit like with the sports team, you know, and
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: say it's going to be tough. We know that it's
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: going to be tough, but I think an audience always
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: appreciates a hundred effort. I mean, listen, you have to
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: have a degree of professionalist and you have to understand
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: your instrument or be able to sing the songs. Of
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: course you do, but they appreciate one hundred percent commitment
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: and you can usually bring people around if you go
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: out there and give one hundred percent. That's the best
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: you can do.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Okay. As you mentioned earlier, Rod wrote some of the
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: hits alone and in addition had a success with his
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: band eponymously named Origent. But you were not a member
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: of the Money tends to be in publishing. So are
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: you working because you have to or because you want
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: to or both?
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Well, in the Original band, I was very much working
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: because I had to, And you're right. I think I
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: think that the writers should of course be paid in full,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: and you know I'm I'm not in any way after
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: their money. I always say, if you haven't got a
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: good song, you can all pack up and go home.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: This is before you start. You're wasting your time if
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: you haven't got good songs. So we should treasure and
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: nurture the writers. And we had two great writers in
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the Zombies and Rod Argent and Chris White, and we
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: were extremely lucky to have them. It does happen, though,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: that their income stream is completely separate to the band
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and of course they're living a different life to the
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: three non writers, and that was one of the reasons
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: why the band finished. That the three non writers had
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: no money, so it was tough. Over the years, I've
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: managed to establish a career, so I'm fortunate enough now
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: that no, I don't have to work, but I love it.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: And also at the back of my mind, I'm thinking,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: at this time in my life, if I was to stop,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: it would be very hard to start up again. And
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: that's a motivation in itself. I think, you know, I'm
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: going to be in my eighties soon. I'm not going
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: to have a gap and come back at eighty five.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: It's it's not going to happen, So I want to
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: keep it going. You know what does it use it
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: or lose it?
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Right? Okay, you have a new documentary. We'll get to
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: that in a second, but it talks about when the
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Zombies break up. You get a job an insurance office,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: and it goes through your ups and downs. You go back,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: you record under Neil MacArthur. Since that time, have you
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: been forced to get a day job?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no, no no, I mean from
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: the time a little bit after my Neil MacArthur episode.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I went back to my real name, and I had
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: regular hits for the next twenty something years, and then
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: there was a bit of a drought. The music business
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: is peaks and troughs. You know, you've got to learn
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: how to get through those. I think you need to
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: have a degree of musicality, of course, but also you
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: need to have tenacity. You have to learn how to survive,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I think in the music business. I hope that doesn't sound.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Too no, no, that sounds to.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: You know, well, there's going to be except for a
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: minute percentage at the top of the business. You know,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: you know, the big names. Apart from them, you're going
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: to have struggles, and you've got to learn how to
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: get through those struggles and stay positive and stay energized
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: when when it seems the world's against you. You have
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: to do that. I'm sure that's happened to me over
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: the years.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, so okay, let's break it down. Your solo records
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: were not commercially successful in the US.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: They certainly weren't, so.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: You know, they were successful elsewhere, so it wasn't a
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: matter of not being in the grooves. Were you aware
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: of that time, were you frustrated. Why do you think
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: they weren't successful in the States.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't think they've fitted in any format that might
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: be something to do with it. I mean, my first
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: of album, A lot of that album features a string
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: quartet with wonderful string arrangements by Chris Gunning, just like
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Bartok esque arrangements, And for some reason radio in the
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: UK accepted it. But I don't fully understand why they did,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: because there's nothing else like that. But it didn't work
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: in America, and I never quite got a level of
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: acceptance with the American media, particularly radio.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: And do you think it's possibly a lack of effort
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: by the label or a manager, or that's just the breaks.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Well, at the end of the day, I think it's
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: just the breaks, isn't it. I mean, I'm not going
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: to start pushing responsibility onto other people, a little bit
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: of everyone, maybe including me. I mean, I don't think
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I really knew how to how did it go about
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: things properly? You know, it's very dissipated everything I did.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I don't think I still don't really understand the business
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: at all, especially considering I've been in it so long.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: But I think that sometimes you know, certainly management could
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: have been a bit better. The Zombies have been very lucky.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: They've they've fallen in with a very wonderful management company,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: and I think that's when things started to turn round
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: for the second incarnation of the Zombies, when we signed
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: with the Rocks, a new management company.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about the ups and downs and surviving.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: How do you survive emotionally and financially? I mean, you've
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: had most people tend to have one peak, that's it. Okay,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: you had multiple peaks. You had peak with zombies, peak
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: working under another name, peak working under your name. Then
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: things lie out and then the zombies come back. How
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: do you handle would financially and emotionally.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Well, Financially it is tricky at times. You have to
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: just cut back on what you spend. You know, you
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: have to live at very what people wouldn't think that
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: people in contemporary music would lift that kind of lifestyle.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: I mean there have been times when in the winter
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to put the heat on, I'd
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: go to bed to keep warm. What age that would
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: have been when I was probably forty or something like that,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: maybe in the mid eight I think the mid eighties
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: were really bad for me. But what really saved me,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I think, was that every so many years, quite possibly,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: when I might be thinking I've got to find something else,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: something would come along. And none of these records charted
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: in America. So it's something in some ways it makes
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: it more difficult to explain. But every four or five
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: years I would be involved in a big record and
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: that would bring the energy back, bring the self belief back,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: and you'd start again. It's just sort of a cycle,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: isn't it really, And you try to hang on to
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: this bit of success while you can, but it's like
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: trying to hold sand. You know you're desperately you can
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: see it or draining out of your hand as you
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: go along. And then the cycle goes on, and then
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I would find myself. The two things I used to
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: do when things are really bad. And this sounds a
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: little bit lightweight, but this is what I used to do.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I'd get my address book and i'd start at a
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: and I'd just go all the way through it to
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: like and I always found someone who wanted to talk
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: about maybe, yeah, just could there be a project there?
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Why don't we go together and have a chat? Always
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: the other thing I would do, which is even perhaps
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: a little stranger is I would get in the bath,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: because have you ever noticed when you get in the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: bath the phone rings.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I noticed when I get in the shower. That's what
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: I have all my clear thinking.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Well as far as but if you get into a bath,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I guarantee the phone will ring. And that was my
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: last My last resort would be again in the bath
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: at the phone would ring, and I just hope it's
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: the offer of some work.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, So let's say you're going through your address book
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: A Z, Yeah, you call me up. How hard a
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: pitch would it be? How would you get to the point?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Oh no, we'd be very conversational. What have you been doing?
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Tell me what you've been doing? Do you know anyone?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I know anything I can grab hold of here? You're written,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: any songs? You know any projects? Anybody needs some singing.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: But I wouldn't say it in those words. I would
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: just saying, how's things, what you been doing? Anything I
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: can get involved in?
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: But you would ultimately put it.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Out there in a very subtle way.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: But the person on the other end could miss it.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I hope not. Otherwise I'm wasting a time calling him.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, how about going to see people in person that
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: were not in your address book, saying, well, maybe I
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: have to go to London hang out. Maybe i'll bump
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: into something.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not so good at that. Years ago, when I
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: was younger, I would even just going to London is
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: I used to live in the center of London, and
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I think I just sort of kind of London's wonderful,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: you know, But as you get older, it's it's frantic,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: it's full of people, it's very noisy, and I find
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: it quite challenging just to go to London, let alone
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: go to meet people. No, I'm not very good socially,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: and i'd tell you another reason why. It might be
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: if you're in a band, you're used to people coming
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: to you socially, and that happened to me a lot
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: in my formative years. So when I was a teenager,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: we're playing, people would come up. This sounds like such
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: a silly thing to say. I find it hard to
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: go up and talk to people, and I'm embarrassed to
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: say it, but I do. And so I'm not very
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: good at, you know, circulating and meeting people in music
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: business circles. I'd go to something like that, and I
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: would stand in the corner all on my own and
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: just sulk out of the door. Eventually when no one
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: speaks to me.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: So okay, So let's say you're home now with your wife,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: and your wife says, hey, you know someone invited us.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Let's go. Are you going to say, ok, let me
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: get ready? You're going to say, I don't think I
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: want to go?
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm afraid yeah. It would be the second I
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: al would say how much do you want to go?
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: How much do you want to go? Trying what's a
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: put too much pressure on them? How much do you
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: want to go? And she said I really would like
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: to go? I said, okay, let's go.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back a step back. When the Zombies
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: had their original hits, recording contracts were horrific in terms
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: of the percentage the acts got. In addition, as we
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: established earlier, most of the money is in publishing. Have
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: you ever gotten a royalty on a record, whether it
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: be the Zombies or anything else?
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I have, not on many, I hasten to add, but
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I have, and some very healthy ones, but only on
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: a few. It's mostly the Zombies. The Zombies sell a
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: lot of requords. There's a big mystery in the Zombies.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I don't Okay, So you're a member of a band,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: there's five people in the band and you have a
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: shitty deal. Was the deal renegotiated at some point? I
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: think there's a lot of it. Again, I'm embarrassed to
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: say this. I'm not sure I fully understand everything that happened.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: But what I will tell you is we didn't sign
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: to a record label in the sixties. We signed to
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: a production company and they signed to the record label.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: So all of our masters reverted to us. Oh that
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: made a huge difference. Okay, you know a lot of
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: acts made deal sixties or seventies. It was a standard provision.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: You get twenty five years, you get the record back,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the Errol Smith, a lot of other racks to get
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: another bite at the apple. They got rid of that
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: to a great degree. Was somebody smart making the deal
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: or that was just a standard deal. I just think
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: we were lucky. We met someone. It was a friend
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: of Chris White's uncle. Bizarre thing. Who was going to
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: look look at the contracts we've been offered. We're eighteen
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: years old, we know nothing, and at the end of
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: the evening. Look at these contracts we've been offered. He said,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. We this production company that he
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: earned his name was Ken Jones. He became our producer
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: and he had a partner called Joe Roncroni, and he said,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: we will offer you better than these deals. And we
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: went with them, and they did look after us, they
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: really did, and they protected us from the worst of
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: the of the things that had happened to you with
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: a record company. I think where we came unstuck really
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: was in live performances. We never really made any money
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: on the road, and we worked all the time.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's stay with the record today. Could you live
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: off the royalties alone?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty amazing, considering multiple members of the band, etc.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I know it's good, isn't it. Hey?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: You know it's been sixty years. Has it gone up
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: and down in this last twenty five years, been a
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: renaissance going up? Or has it always been consistent?
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: No renaissance going up? And the eighties around there, it
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: didn't seem to be making a lot of money. And
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: then slowly but surely I remember sort of the first
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: check coming through that was really worth having. I'm on
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the phone to Rod, you got the post yet? This
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: check just going what's happening? And I don't know what
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: is happening? And gradually the checks and we used to
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: get to we've just negotiated a new deal. But in
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: these old, these old checks, we would get two a
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: year and every six month. You know, my hands are
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: shut when the postman goes has the bubble burst? But
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: it didn't. And if I say I don't fully understand
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: what's happened with the Zombies, I'm embarrassed to say it,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: but it's honestly the truth. The Zombies records sell in
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: very healthy quantities around the world and have done for
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: the last twenty or twenty five years.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, how much? This is hard to split up, but
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna try anyway. You have the original in America,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Original two Hitch, She's not there to tell her no
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Bam breaks up. You have Time Sea of the Season.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: But that album grows Out've see an Oracle grows in
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: reputation over the years. Is it about the hit or
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: is it about the album that is driving this mania?
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's the album. And it's almost as though
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: the album did it on its own, because no one
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: was promoting it, No one was marketing it. It had
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: gone you know, it was really never a hit. I
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: looked it up. It went to ninety eight in Billboard
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: for one week and disappeared. Rolling Stone named it as
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: one of the top hundred albums of all time. And
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: you see the albums around it, you know, it's the
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Beatles and Simon and Garfunk, all these wonderful classic albums,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: and there's little old honesty on Oracle right in the
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: middle that was never really a hit. And there's just
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: there is a mistique about that album. It's just word
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: of mouth. People like Tom Petty in America and Dave
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Gohl and Susannah Hoffs and people have quoted it so
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: often as a favorite album, and it's really helped.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, general question. You're the singer, you're the front person.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: You're not writing the lyrics. That is relatively rare. There
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: are bands like Rush where the drummer wrote the lyrics.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: What's it like singing somebody else's lyrics, especially I won't
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: say they're unbelievably personal, but they're delivered in a very
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: personal way.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I was, you know, I was brought
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: up doing that all about three formative years. I never
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: contributed to the songs. I don't want to say that
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: I did in any way at all, but Rod always
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: worked with me with the songs. The phrasing of the
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: songs is always very important. There's nothing thrown together about,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: especially our laser performances. Rod has always got a vision
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: on how a song should be phrased, and we spend
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of time on that, and so it feels
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: very natural to me when I'm performing it for real
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: as if I wrote it, because we spent a lot
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: of time on it, and I hope I fully understand
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: what he's trying to say and how he's trying to
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: say it, and most importantly, how he's trying to phrase it.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: And he's very patient, and he knows what he wants
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: and he's determined to get it too. He's very tenacious.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I tell you, Okay, in your solo career, you have
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: a noted song about an ex girlfriend, Caroline. How did
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: that come to be an What did she say about it?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if she was all that pleased. Really,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: it came about you know, I was just a fledgling writer,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: and you know you're a teenager or early twenties or something.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: You write about heartbreak. That's how you most people start anyway,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: And so I did. I just wrote down what was happening.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: But I always planned to change the name.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Of course. I wasn't going to use the real name.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: And the recording day came out and can you think
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: of another name that would It's a little late now perhaps,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: but I often say that to people, if you can
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: think of another name that fits. Maybe it's a bit late,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: but maybe we could slit the other name in. And
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: so I took a chance and I recorded it with
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: the real name in there. And a journalist knew the
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: story who worked for a national newspaper in England, and
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: he did a full page story about that. That's it
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: wasn't a hit, he just did it. But I think
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: she was very beautiful and it was a way of
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: getting a picture of a girl in a bikini into
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: the newspaper because it was about her as much as
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: the song, and the secret was out, you know, and
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: it's I mean, I don't think it's anything to be
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: too embarrassed about. But it wasn't my intention to use
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: the real name.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: So did you ever hear from her about it?
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: I've met her, but she's never really said much since then.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I've never really discussed it with her, but I mean,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I hope she wouldn't be offended. There's nothing to be
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: offended about in there. But I am a little bit
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: self conscious about it. Okay, us the real name.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, just to go back, you did have a relationship
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: with her, right, I did. Okay, It wasn't something from
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Afar being no no, no, no no. So how long
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: did it go on? Oh?
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: It was a couple of years. And she was very young,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: and I think she was so was I. She was
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: about seventeen, I think, and I was nineteen or something
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: like that. And I, you know, I was always a
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: huge romantic. And it's funny because the guys in the
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: band would always say I would be the first one
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: to be married. At the time, I thought we would
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: be married, and I honestly it's terrible, but seventy nine,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about a romance I have when I.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Was nineteen actual.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, anyway, she got a partner film in Spain,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: and this is how my mind worked at that time.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I thought, this is okay, she's going to be away
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: for six months. If we can get through this six
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: months apart, then we really should get married. How presumptuous,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: you know. I didn't say that to her. It's just
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: what I was thinking. And of course she met someone
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: on the film and she married him. That was That
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: was the end of the relationship, but it was the
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: beginning of the song. You see, every cloud has a
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: silver lining. And so I lost the girl, but I
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: found the song.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Now, this woman was an actress, however young. How'd you
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: meet her?
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: There was a some kind of presentation night for the
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: zombies and she was involved. David Bailey, the photographer, named
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: her as the face of the year.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what year it was, but it was
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a long time, right right. I named her the face
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: of the year, and part of her prize for being
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: the face of the year was to be at this
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: presentation thing that we went to, and I just said
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: to her, would you like to come to a club afterwards?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: And that's how I met her.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, you've been married how many times?
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Twice though I don't always count the first time.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: So how old we were married the first time?
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Old enough to know better.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I'm old enough to know better because.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Because I married a total stranger when I was blind drunk.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: There's more to the story than that you met the person.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: How long after you met her did you marry her?
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: About seven or eight days?
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Tell me the story.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I was hoping you'd say that I signed a
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Rocket Records and I've made a record with Gus Dudgeon,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: super bloke, great producer. We spent a lot of money.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I had lunch with Elton and shortly after we'd made it,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: and you know, I said what do you think of
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: the album? And he may not have used these words,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: but you know, he said, well, I don't really like it.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: And we spent I felt terrible. We spent a fortune.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: And he said to me, you know what I think
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: you should do. You go to California and record, as
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: you know, West Coast Rock album, which is what I did.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I came over here and I recorded with Bill Shne
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: and wonderful group of musicians, and I recorded in LA
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: and I ended up back in England. Now I've I've
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: recorded the record. Right for recording two albums, Now I'm
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: up to a huge amount of money. I dread to think.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: And because the Zombies finished at the end of the seventies,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I haven't played live since the end of the seventies
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: and the sixties, sorry, the end of the sixties, this
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: is the mid seventies. I've spent probably one hundred and
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: fifty one hundred and seventy thousand pounds, which would be
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: more in dollars, and they wanted me to come back
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: here and promote it and play some live dates and things.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: That's the weight on my shoulders for the responsibility of
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: spending this money, and then the anxiety of can I
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: still perform live? And it was getting very close to
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: flight time to come over here, and I met a
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: very beautiful, vivacious, confident young lady who helped me get
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: carried away with the whole spirit of the time. I
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: drank a lot of champagne to take the edge off
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: my anxiety. I found myself married. That was it, really.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's break it down. Did you end up doing
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: the West Coast dates? The live date?
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Actually most of them seemed to fade away. I did
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: lots of interviews. I don't remember actually performing live, so
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: that was a relief. But I did do lots of interviews,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: and having just met this young lady about two days
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: after we got married, might have been the next day,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I can't remember. I came to California. So when I
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: was doing this, I had literally just got married to someone,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: and of course then I had to go home and
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: we had to face up to what we've done. And
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: it was a tricky one. It was a tricky one.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: But how long did it last?
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Not very long, I'm afraid. I mean like two weeks,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: three years, a few months, I would maybe a little
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: bit longer than that, maybe a little bit longer.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, So how did it end? And we're both people
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: happy or were certain people unhappy?
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Well, she went off around the world and she just
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: take quite a long time in La actually, and she
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: lived with a very famous rock and roll manager here
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: longer than she lived with me. I mean, you don't
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: know whether to laugh or cry in these situations, do
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: you really? And then she went off to Japan and
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: eventually she came back and we sorted things out. I
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: was a huge learning experience for me.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Well, other than the fact I don't get married after
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: you meet someone drunk in a bar, what were the
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: other lessons?
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, don't yeah, don't marry a total stained stranger
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: when you're blind drunk. That was the main one, right,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: And it certainly will hit you financially, that's for sure. Right,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: they were the two main lessons I think.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, so how all were you when that happened?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, thirty three?
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Okay? So when did he get married the second time?
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: The second time, it's a different kettle of fish. I
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: met a wonderful lady who was actually an airline stewardess.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: But I didn't meet her on an aeroplane. I just
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: met a few friends, you know, And I think I
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: was about forty two when I got married. We've been
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: married for thirty eight years and we have one daughter.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: It's wonderful. She's a doctor, and it's been a wonderful marriage.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: And you know, maybe I learned something from that. You know,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed about that first marriage, for my sake and
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: for the person I'm marriage. You know, I would apologize
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: to everyone concerned. I should have known better. But I
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: learned a lot out of that.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I learned marriage is a very serious commitment and you
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: have to work at it, and you have to be
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: sure of the person you're marrying and they have to
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: be sure of you. And for the second marriage, it's
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: really worked out incredibly well. And maybe it wouldn't have
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: worked out if I hadn't done that insane thing. How
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: did we get onto the subject of marriages.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Because we're asking about the song about Caroline.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Or perhaps that's what it was. Yeah, and you said
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: how many times have you been married?
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, kind of twice, Okay.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: The nature of being someone who is successful in the
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: public eye first, I mean, I'm just speak in English here.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Many people are attracted to performers and songs in a
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: different way from movies starts, because the performers embody the song,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: it is them. So yes, when you're in the public eye,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I would think there are people who had attracted you
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: because of that. And then there's also your identity, and
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: there's relative power struggles as opposed to just meeting people
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: in your hometown. Did you experience that? Oh?
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, of course all musicians have experienced that. And I
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: think when I was younger, I didn't really understand the
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: difference between meeting people on the road, you know, backstage,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: and meeting someone in your hometown. It is different. I
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: can always remember I was managed for some time by
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the same person who managed Cat Stevens, and I remember
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: him saying to me you you you know, meet people,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: go out with people that you meet on their own.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Well what everybody did, right, you know, he couldn't believe it,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: And I think you have to be on your guard
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: for the people at the show's sake and for your sake.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: But you know, I'm married now, there's.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Right, right we're talking about.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's there's an imbalance. You know, if you're
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: a performer and someone is attracted to you as a performer,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: it's not fair on them. There's saying something that's that's
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: not there, and so you just have to be you
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: have a responsibility to protect them and yourself. Really, I think,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I mean it's easy for me to say that now.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: You know, I said earlier I'm seventy nine. Now I've
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: been married for thirty eight years. But I still believe
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: that's true.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you make your present wife where she for
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: familiar with you in your career.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: A little bit, I think, But it was more a
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: meeting of mutual friends, you know. I think she was aware, yeah,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: but not over impressed.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, So she's a flight attendant, you're a rock and roller.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: How does your daughter end up a doctor?
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Well, she's very academic she enjoys taking exams. And I
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: tell you what happened. She used to go to a
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: summer school, and then as she got older, she became
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: a helper at the summer school. And there was a
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: problem with someone in a swimming pool. You know, they
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: could have died, and she, as a young teenager, helped
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: to revive them, and she felt something about what had
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: happened there. And from then on there was part of
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: her that definitely wanted to explore, at least the idea
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: of being a doctor. And she went on and she
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: did it. She's very bright and very tenacious as well.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: And now she qualified years ago, but she's now a
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: psychiatrist actually, and she said that there are probably two
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: or three treatable traits in me that should be attended to.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I haven't actually asked what they are, but obviously she
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: sees traits in me that could do with a little
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: bit of work. Maybe I'll get one of her friends
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: to try and psychoanalyze me.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Or whatever they do.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know what.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: They do, Okay, unfortunately, or fortunately I know what they do.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: But being on the other side of the or being
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: on the couch, so to speak. But your daughter's obviously
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: very successful. You're a musician. Is this totally self directed?
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Or when she was growing up, were you and your
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: wife saying, hey, pay attention to your school, do this,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: do that?
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: No, but she did. She would come home from school
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: to get her school book books out, and she would
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: do homework. But what we would do was we would
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: keep the house quiet, TV's off, you know, we would
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: try and make it easy for her. But we never
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: had to say work. The one thing I regret this,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: the one thing I did do was one evening she
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: was singing, and the conversation went along the lines of,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: you know, could me and my friends could we make
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: a record? And I really regret this, but it's a
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: tough business, you know, and especially perhaps for girl singers
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: as well. They're very vulnerable and there's so many good
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: girl singers out there. And I said no, no, no, don't.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I wish.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I really regret it, but I said don't. And she
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: just wanted a bit of fun.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I think she would have liked to have made a
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: record with her friends. And I don't know, I don't
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: do that, don't do that. And I wish I'd have
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: said I'll fix the studio, let's make a record with
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: you and your pals. I wish i'd done that, But
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: that was the only time that I kind of closed
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: her down on something she wanted to do, just because
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: I was concerned. I knew how often tough it was,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: and I was trying to protect her. But the memory
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: of it embarrasses me.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: You know, Okay, she grows up and you hear about
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the progeny of people who are not impressed with the
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: success of their parents. How did she feel about you
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: and your success?
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Well, she certainly wasn't impressed when I was young. When
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: she was young, I'm sorry. I think no, she wasn't
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: impressed at all. As she's got older. I think first
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: it became intrigue that people were interested in me. I
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: think she found that quite interesting herself. Why are they
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: talking to my dad? Why is this happening? And then
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: she started coming to gigs and so, you know, she
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: is a doctor, she's a psychiatrist. She's thirty seven or
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: something like that, but she comes to gigs. She comes
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: to festivals with her husband, and sometimes she'd bring the
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: little baby along as well. She likes festivals and I
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: think she really enjoys it now. But when she was
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: a teenager. First of all, I think she was in denial,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: and secondly, I think she was a bit embarrassed. Probably
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: her friends were all parents were all investment bankers and
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: diplomats or whatever they were. They weren't near rock and
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: roll singers in the parents group at her school.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: It's only me, okay, from my life, You're the only
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: person I've ever known named Blundstone. Yes, if you're in
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: England or are there other Blundstones or does she say
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I'm so and sold Blunstone said, oh is your father Colin?
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I think people do say that to her. But there
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: is only one family, I believe, but most of them
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: are in the north of the country. My father came
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: from the north of the country. But if someone's called Blunstone,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: then as far as I know, we would be related. Yeah,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: but people do say that to her because it's an
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: unusual name.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So where exactly do you grow up?
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I grew up just north of London in a place
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: called Hatfield, and I went to school in a place
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: called Saint Albans, which is four or five miles away,
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: and that's where all the zombies all went to school.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: In Saint Albans and that's the connection.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, but you know people in America are not that savvy.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: From the center of London. How far was the town
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: that you grew up in.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Probably about twenty five twenty eight miles quite close.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: And could you take the train in if you wanted to?
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Half an hour on the train.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: And did people in your town did some of them
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: take the train to go to work?
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, yeah, it was it was commutable.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And your parents did what for a living?
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Well, my father really was. He was say, a gentleman's hairdresser.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Some people might say Barbara, that was his trade. Really.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: My mom when she was younger, she was a dancer,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: but then later on, you know, she worked in offices
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: and she was a mom. She didn't particularly have a career,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: but she was a wonderful personality because she'd been on
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: the stage, you know. I mean, she would love to
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: sing at the drop of the hat and was very good.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, the war has just ended, we hear you know
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: the metaphor I always say, You know, ultimately in England
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: went from black and white to color. It was different
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: in America. So it's nineteen forty five, you're not conscious
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: but as you become conscious the end of the forties
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: and early fifties, especially with in retrospect, were there limits
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: could you feel the hangover the war? Were there things
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: you couldn't get? What was it like?
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, it was very austere in the UK after the war.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I've heard people say that it was tougher after the war.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: I mean I was a child, so I wasn't aware
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: of this, but I've heard people say it was tougher
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: after the war. And it was during the war and
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: most things were Russian. So food was ration and you
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: and you know it really if to see an orange,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: you might see an orange at one orange at Christmas,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: that would be it. Clothes were rationed, Petrol was rationing,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: so you know, you could only use so much pet
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: petrol in a week. You had you had a ration
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: book and you could only use so much petrol. And
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: I think butter was Russian. It was quite tough. And
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: on top of that from people have told me, I
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: think it was nineteen forty eight, it was a very
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: very bad winter and it's very hard to get hold
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: of coal to heat your house, so it was tough
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: in the late forties and fifties. And I think that's
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: part of the reasons why the sixties exploded in such
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: a way, because we were just coming out of that
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: post war austerity in the late fifties and into the sixties,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: it was still a hangover. If you drove up to
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: London in the fifties, there were huge areas that where
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: it had been bombed that were just there were no
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: houses there, and you knew why there were no houses
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: there because that lort Ha got bombed.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're an only child. Some only children, all the
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: wholes dreams of the parents are invested. They say how
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: great they pushed the kid. Other family if they treat
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: the kid more as an adult. What was your experience
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: growing up?
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I was very supported and loved growing up. I
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: was so fortunate. I really loving parents who just wanted
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: the best for me. Really, that's all. I don't think
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: they were over ambitious because they were in a way.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Not to talk down about them, they were wonderful people,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: but they were working class people and so they just
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: wanted me, wanted me to be happy. Really, that was it.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're going to school, you know, in America, public
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: school is one thing, and in the UK public school's
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: private school. But it was a regular government school, right, yes,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: And what was that like?
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: It was fine. I went to a nice local school
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: up till eleven and I could walk to school, and
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: they were quite interested in music. Not guitars or rock
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: and roll, but there was an interest in music. And
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: I established actually even then that I had a little
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: bit of a boy as a young boy. They got
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: me to sing some solo pieces, but that kind of
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: faded away. I forgot that that wasn't going to lead
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: to a career in a rock and roll band at
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: eleven in those days, and in some areas in the
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: country they still do this. They have an exam it's
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: called the eleven plus and if you pass that exam,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: you go to a more academic school. And I went
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: to a more academic school. I went to Saint Albans
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Grammar School in St Albans. It was an all boys
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: school and I got a shock because there were a
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: lot of bright people there and I, you know, I
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: certainly wasn't amongst them. I was very average. But it
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: was a good school. And also I discovered a love
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: for sport while I was there, and I probably did
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: too much sport. I should have been at home, helping
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: out at home really, but you know, every night I
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: would stay on and do one sport or another, and
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: I loved it. And then at about fifteen, the guy
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: in front of me, we were it's a strict school,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: and we were arranged enough better ordered by our surnames.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: No one ever called us by a Christian names. And
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: the guy in front of me was a guy called Arnold,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Paul Arnold and Colin blunts and sat behind him. And
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: he turned around to me and he said, I've got
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: a mate who's putting a band together. Yeah, you've got
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: a guitar, haven't you? And I said, yeah, I have
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: got a guitar actually, And he said, do you want
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: to be in the band? And that basically was that's
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: my audition for the Zombies.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You say you're a very average
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: student when you're less than eleven. Are you someone who's
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: more of a loner or are you someone who has
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of friends? What kind of kid are you? No?
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I think I had I had, I had friends. Yeah.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: And then in your house, your mother was a dancer.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Did they play music in the house?
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Not an awful lot, No, But any excuse she would
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: sing and dance. I don't remember, but she had five brothers.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: I used to go a lot to my grandparents' house,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: which was about ten miles away, but like two or
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: three nights a week. I don't quite understand how we
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: got over there in those days. We didn't always have
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: a car. It would have to be on the bus.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: But we went there a lot. And my mother had
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: five brothers and they all played instruments. Most of them
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: played two or three instruments really well, sort of semi professional,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: And so I heard a lot of music in that house.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: At Christmases were wonderful. They would do a fanfare for
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: the Christmas pudding to come through. It'd be two trombones
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: and a trumpet. And then after the meal we'd have
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: a we had a dance band, so we we would
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: we would experience live music when these guys you know,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: chose to play it was. It was wonderful. But I
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: don't remember an awful lot of the radio. BBC Radio
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: didn't play a lot of contemporary music. They would play
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: like light classics or else it was talk music. It
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: wasn't till the till the Pirates came about and they
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: were playing records and the beeB had to compete and
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: so then they started playing records too. The BBC before that,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: they didn't play records for one reason or another, one
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: being that the musicians' union was very strong and they
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: didn't want records played. They wanted musicians to be employed
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: to play live music. And it used to be called
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: needle time. BBC only had so much needle time when
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: they could play records. It's very old fashioned and very
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: different to radio here. Now, we followed you very much
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: and it's it's similar over there to the radio set
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: up here.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Let's go back a step. You say you go to
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: I think it was Saint Albans, the second school, and
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: you become very interested in sport. So what sports did
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: you play and how good were you?
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Well, my favorite sport was rugby, and for the first
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: rehearsal when I turned up, Paul Arnold asked me to
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: go along to rehearsal on a Saturday morning. On the
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Wednesday afternoon, I broke my nose playing rugby quite badly
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: and my nose was nearly in my ear and they
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: I had to go to hospital and they'd strapped me
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: with white tape across the face and I had two
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: black eyes. And I turned up for the first rehearsal
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: and they were scared of me. What surprised time would
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: have been scared to. Rhodes told me that we were
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: standing on this street corner. Paul Arnold is the only
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: guy I know from my school. Rod had got some
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: guys from another school, so the other people didn't know me.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: And Rod was standing under his breath. God, don't say that,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: rough guy, And it was me. Yeah, but yes, I
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: love to play rugby. I would have loved to have
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: been a good rugby player, but I wasn't really good enough.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: I was a sprinter, so I was very fast. You know,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: it seems silly to say this now, but I was
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: a schoolboys sprint champion at school of the County, which
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: would perhaps be like the state. And actually I had
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: a national trial at basketball, believe it or not, because
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: basketball is not a big sport in the UK, and
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: that's probably why I got a national trial because there
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: weren't many other people. There weren't many many other people
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: playing it, so they were the three sports that I play, Rugby,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: athletics and basketball.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about the BBC not playing records, but
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: in the fifties rock and roll starts to happen. You
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: have Rocket Ada, you have Rock around the Clock, you
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: have Elvis, you have Little Richard. Is this on your radar?
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: It is, and it's always intrigued me. Where did I
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: hear it? I used to, at quite a young age,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: hang out at this sort of cafe place that had
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: a jukebox. That was one place I heard it. They
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: occasionally played things on the BBC, but it's really not
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: very much, but I was aware of it. Elvis especially.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I don't even think we had a record player at
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: home when I was really younger. Later we did, but
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: I heard Elvis's early records. So the three for me
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: that got me interested were Elvis, Little Richard, and Chuck
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Berry and I I just thought they were one for
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: all Americans. And this is the thing I always say
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: to American people is that British musicians always want to
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: come to America. It's the home of the blues, jazz,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: rhythm and blues and rock and roll. This is where
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: it all happened, and British musicians always want to come here,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: and nearly always they get interested in music through American musicians.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe not always, but mostly they do. And certainly my
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: generation did.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, how did you end up with a guitar? Well?
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I loved the kind of people we're talking about, and
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: then later on very much. Ricky Nelson was huge for me,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: and Buddy Holly.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Did as an heiot show play. No, it didn't know,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: so you didn't get Ricky playing at the end.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: No. I saw occasional clips on the TV. It's it's
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: a mystery to me how anybody ever heard these songs,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: but we did because because we you know, we loved
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: the music and you just five ways to do it.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: I begged for a guitar, and it was a big
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: sacrifice for my parents to get me a guitar. I
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: think it cost twelve pounds. It was a famous Atlantis
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: and I think it was made in East Germany. And
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: it was quite a nice acoustic guitar and I could
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: play a few chords on it, you know, I loved
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I think my father was a bit worried it was
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: going to be a three day wonder, but it didn't
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: work out that way. I loved to play. I would
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: play for hours on end.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, how'd you learn?
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Mostly? I taught myself mostly? Yeah.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, So when Paul Arnold says, hey, these guys are
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: forming a band. You just played your acoustic guitar at home. Yes,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: you didn't play out anywhere. It wasn't like you went
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: to friend's house and picked up the guitar and they said, oh,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: you're the famous guy who plays the guitar.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: No, not very much. I don't think I might have
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: done it a little bit, but no, I just played
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: at home and I joined the Zombies as a rhythm guitarist.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Rod Argent was going to be the lead singer, and
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: at that first rehearsal there was a we we played.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: We just played an instrumental called Malaguena. It's like a
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: classic song that people play. And because it was an
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: instrumental and Rob was going to be the lead singer,
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: of course he didn't actually do anything. But there was
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: a break in the middle of the first rehearsal. We
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: had a coffee and there was an old, broken down
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: piano in the corner, and he went over and he
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: played not Rocker by Bee Bumble and the Stingers, and
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: he was just so much better than us. We were
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: really ordinary and I just I've only just met him,
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: so I wasn't too sure of what his name was,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: but I went over. I thought this was quite bold. Actually,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: I went over to him and I said, you know,
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: whatever your name is, you should play keyboards in this band.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: You're really good. And he said, no, no, we don't
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: want keyboards in this band. It's a rock and roll band.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: That's three guitars. And he was adamant. And then at
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: the end of the rehearsal, just as I was putting
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: my guitar away, I just started singing a little bit
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: to myself and it was I know, its a Ricky
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Narsen song and I think it was it's late, but
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not absolutely sure. And he just turned around and
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: said he heard me singing, and he said, if you'll
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: be the lead singer, I'll play keyboards. And essentially that
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: was the Zombies. It was all so so much chance,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: you know. I mean, you have conversations like that, you
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: be the lead singer, and I'll bet you're not thinking
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: that sixty years later we'll be touring the world and
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: having had hit records and being inducted in the Rock
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: and Roll Hall of Fame. I said, well, okay, I'll
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: give it a go, and that was it.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Really okay, So you had a whole scene in the
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: UK that didn't happen in America. The skiffle bands. Okay,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: when you formed the band, I believe in nineteen sixty one,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: was that a thing? I mean, like, after the Beatles
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: hit in America, everybody here formed the band. Okay, So
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: in sixty one were a lot of people starting bands
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: or were you more of the outliers.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: No, there were a lot of people in bands, yeah,
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: but not skiffle right had come and gone. So it
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: was it was rock and roll. It would have been
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: you know, the American greats, and then in the UK
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: it would have been people like Cliff Richard perhaps and
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: Joe Brown and Marty Wilde and people like that. But
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: I think we were more looking towards America. In fact,
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: as time went by, we renamed the Zombies. Were called
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: as Zombies R and B for quite a long while
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: because we were trying to explore the R and B artists.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: But then, of course we realized I'm skipping ahead a
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: bit here, but we realized we had two guys in
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: the band who could write, and that changed everything.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, before you get there, yeah, you're playing an acoustic guitar.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: I had a little pickup on him, which my dad
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: I think someone gave it to me. My dad managed
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: to stick it onto the guitar. I mean it it
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: looked very cumbersome, but what do you do for an
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: e app Well, that first rehearsal, Rod's cousin Jim Rodford,
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: who was twenty years in the Kinks and then twenty
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: years in the Zombies as well. Sadly he's passed away
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: quite recently. But Rod's cousin, Jim Rodford, was in the
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: big band in Saint Albans who were called the Blue Tones,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: and they were really good, and they had all the
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Fox equipment and a full drum kit and everything, and
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Jim managed to persuade them to let us borrow their
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: gear on that first rehearsal. So we thought we sounded
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: pretty wonderful through these ants and drums. Jim much later,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: you know, fifty years later, admitted that when he heard
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: us play and I'm thinking we sound wonderful, Jim was
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: listening and watching and he thought no chance, no chance.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: He'd waited fifty years and he'd only said it in
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: a very light way. We just died laughing because we
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: thought we were great. But he thought we were terrible.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Then the next rehearsal we had of course, we didn't
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: have all their equipment. We had one handmade, broken down
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: old amplifier that everyone had to plug into, and a
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: handmade speaker, and our drummer, Hugh Grundy, had two drumsticks
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: and he played on that. They were his drums, and
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: I we had a microphone that was like a shot put.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: It was really very heavy to hold, and that was
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: a real wake up call. That was our second rehearse
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: and you think, God, we're hopeless. We haven't got any gear,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: and we just It took us a year, you know,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: to save and buy bits and pieces before we played
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: our first little gig at a youth club and again
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I thought it was fantastic to actually play. And in
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: the last song, they used to always try and put
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: the lights down in the last song so they could
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: do a close dance. And we were doing an instrumental
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: called Nivram, which is a song from The Shadows, and
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: there's a bass solo in the middle of the song
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: and when they put the lights down, Paul Arnold at
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: that time was playing bass and he got onto the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: wrong threat because the lights had come down and you
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: play this whole based solo, a semitone sharp to what
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: we were playing, and I think it sounded it sounded
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: very modern, something Miles Davis might have tried.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: You know, it was okay in that year. How many
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: times are you getting together and at what point do
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: you guys say we're committed.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: I don't remember a discussion about being committed or not,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: but most sundays we got together to rehearse. And it
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: got a bit much for Paul Arnold. He wanted to
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: be a doctor. He's very aware of having to keep
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: up on his studies, and so he was the only
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: guy who left. He's the only guy who escaped. And
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Chris White turned up.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: What happened to Paul Arnold in life?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Became a doctor and he's in Edmonton and we've played
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: up there quite a few times and he always comes
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: and we always introduced him to the audience. I think
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: he really enjoys it. Actually gets the spotlight on him
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: and he really likes it. And Chris White came and
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: took over. But it was very interesting. I'm not I
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: don't really know where Chris White came from exactly. I
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: don't know who approached him. He just arrived, and what
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: intrigued me was usually bass playing. The Drama are very
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: tight because they played together well. Chris had been coming
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: in and playing bass for about five or six weeks,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: and Hugh Grundy, our drummer, came up to me and
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: very quietly whispered in my ear. He said, who's this
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: book who keeps coming in and playing base? I realized
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: that he'd been coming in for five or six weeks
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: to play bass, and Hew had never spoken to him,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: and he didn't know who he was. And I think
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: there's something of the Zombies in that that things just
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: used to happen and no one really knew. No one
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: really knew why or how. I don't know where Chris
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: came from.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, so playing in B and B. Believe me, I
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: was never any good. There's always one person who says,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: we got to get a gig. They're like the business person.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: She happened. Usually this is a drummer. What happened in
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: the Zombies.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not so sure about We've got to get
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: a gig? But musically it was always Rod. It was
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: Rod's but Rod formed the band. It's Rod's band. He's
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: the leader of the band. He was head and shoulders
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: better than us musically, and he was the first one
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: to start writing as well. So the whole musical direction
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: came from Rod. But I think we all knew if
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: we're going to do this, we have at some point
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: we've got to we've got to try and perform. And
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: I think we all tried to get gigs. Really, it
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: wasn't all down to the drummer as he has been
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: in your experience. I think we all tried to get gigs.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: And I remember I got them into some youth clubs
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: around hat and then I got them into my rugby club.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: And this is when you're taking your life into your
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: because these guys they're quite physical and they drink lots
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: of beer and a bit crazy, you know, And I
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: was very relieved. Apart from anything else, they really took
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: to us. And the rugby club dancers used to be
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: very poorly attended, but it really built up into something.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: That's when we started to build a local following at
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: the rugby club I played for, and then we played
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: at other rugby clubs as well, and it was really
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: shortly after that we won a big rock and roll competition.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Before you get there when you're rehearsing, what material are
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: you playing?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Well, until we got into the beat until the Beatles happened,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: we were trying to get into as much rhythm and
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: blues and blues as we could, although we did play
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: pop tunes as well. When we first started, we played
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of instrumental but gradually they started to drop out,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: and I used to play guitar, you know, But they
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: gradually dropped out, and then we mostly just played songs.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: I think they got I think they got a little
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: bit frustrated because when they played instrumentals and I was
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: gradually stopping playing guitar. It's really uncool this, but they
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: would do instrumentals and I get off the stage and
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: dance with a pretty girl. And I don't blame them.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: It's very unprofessional, you know. And then at the end
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: of the song, I'd have to rush back up and
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: start singing again. So more and more we were just
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: playing songs.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: What happened first, the Battle of the Bands or the Beatles?
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: The Beatles happened first.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, so tell us about the Beatles. Fabulous, I mean,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: how did you hear them?
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: But I think by then the BBC were playing a
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: few or maybe we were listening to the pirates stations.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: You know, they were on ships out in the sea,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: and so they weren't regulated by the government. So I
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: think by then we could we could listen to the music,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: and they just took our breath away. They were just sensational,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: and they wrote their own songs. They changed everything, and
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: so this is one of the problems we had. Later on,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: we'd started playing lots of Beatles songs. Well, if you
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: have a hit record, you can't your live show can't
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: be based on another band. So it created a bit
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: of a problem for us. But I know it was
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: the Beatles first because in the rock competition that we won,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: one of the songs we played was you Can't Do That,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: which was a B side for the Beatles, a really
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: good song actually, and that was one of the songs
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: that we played.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, what is the general tone. Everything happened in America
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: a year and a half later. Really, the Beatles in
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: UK is sixty two sixty three. Doesn't happen in America
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: until sixty four. And then it's a tsunamiavacts Herman Hermon's Billy,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: you know Kramer in the Dakotas. You know, you're still
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: trying to make it. Do all these bands start to
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: have success and are you aware of them?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, But I thought they were in a separate
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: world to us, and thought never crossed my mind that,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: you know, we would be playing some of the same
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: dates as them, perhaps not the Beatles, but the other ones.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: I thought, you know, we'd just keep playing locally. Really,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: Then we were entered into this rock competition and there
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: were one hundred bands, but there were ten bands a
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: night for ten weeks, so I know there are one
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: hundred bands, and we won our our heat. You know,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: it's really surprised, and this is not false modesty. I
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: thought that was fantastic, you know. And then we got
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: into the final. I believe it. We won it out
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: of all those bands. And one way or another, and
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: all the guys in the band remember this differently, but
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: one way or another, it led to a contract with
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: Decca Records. From memory, I think it was only for
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: a single. It wasn't for an album, but we got
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: the chance to record in Decca studios.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, at what point in this story do you stop
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: going to school.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: I had just stopped. So Chris White was the oldest
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: he'd gone to art school and he just finished three
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: years at art school. And Hugh Grandy were roughly the
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: same as Rod and I are only ten days apart,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: and we had all worked for a few months. I
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: think he was in a bank, Rod was working in
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: a the offices of a factory, and I was working
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: in an office as well. None of us had embarked
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: on huge career projects, you know, So when things started
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: to happen with the band, it wasn't a hard decision,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: you know, that we were going to stop doing those jobs.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: But everybody finished school.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: Everybody had finished school. Oh no, I'm sorry, Paul Arnold.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Paul Atkinson was a year younger than us, so he
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: went straight from school into the band, playing professionally.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, from the time you first started playing out, which
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: was a year after you first started playing, how long
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: from then until the one hundred BM competition?
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: From when we first started playing, well, we first started
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: playing in sixty one and the band competition was in
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: sixty four. It was in the spring of sixty four.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, so the first year you just would shedding in
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: those two intervening years, what are you doing?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: We're playing anywhere? That would have us anywhere. I remember
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: playing at what they would call working men's clubs, but
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: you know, probably older men would go there and drink
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: beer and talk about the war, probably, and they and
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: we would play, and they wouldn't want us to play, really,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: but we would play anyway. We'd play at schools, we
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: would just play anywhere, at the youth clubs, anywhere that
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: they would have us.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: And were you making any money?
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a money making thing. I think from memory,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: I think we would charge six pounds a night. It's
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: a precise figure. I know that's what we charged, So
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: that would be seven or eight dollars. But the six
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: pounds we would use one pound for expenses for everyone
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: getting there, and the five pounds we would reinvest in equipment,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: because you know, we still had pretty awful equipment.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: So by time you go to the one hundred band competition,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: what equipment do you have and how good is it?
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting point. We had the equipment that we
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: recorded She's not there on and some of it was homemade.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: But a big thing for us was Rod discovered a
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: keyboard player called a honer pianette, and up until then
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: he just had to use whatever piano was there, and
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: we put a microphone in the piano and we'd have
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: to tune to the piano because often they're tuned down
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: and you could never really hear him properly. And I
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: used to gauge how well the band had gone by
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: how much blood was coming out of his thumb, because
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: he used to do these Jerry Lee Lewis blisses and
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: if it was going well, he'd really dig in and
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: his thumb, you just blood would be dripping out of it.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: And I think that gig went really well tonight. Look
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: at Rod's thumb, And that's how we had to do
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: it until he got this Honer pianette, and that's a
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: whole different ball game. We could hear him properly. The
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: unfortunate thing was it had a strange system where it
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: had arms that used to go down with little stickers
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: on the end of it, and they'd pull off and
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: that would pull the note. But we would play, especially
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: at these rugby clubs, it would get very hot and sweaty,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: and these stickers wouldn't work properly, and thinking back, I
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: don't know how people would put up with this, but
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: so that wouldn't work, so Rob would just say, oh,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: we just have to stop for a bit now, and
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: he would get his hair dryer out and take up
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: the top of the p and dry the stickers. In
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: the honer, we'd just I don't know what they did.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: If it's a rugby club, they'd probably be drinking and
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: then okay, it's drying out, we start up again. So
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: it had its disadvantages to Honah, because if it was
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: really hot, it would stop playing.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: But okay, prior to the one hundred billion gig, how
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: often are you playing?
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: I think we play most weeks, and sometimes it would
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: be Friday and Saturday, but sometimes it might only be once.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: And did you rehearse it all or just live?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: We would rehearse on a Sunday and play on either
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: a Friday or a Saturday.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, you win the competition. What happens next?
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: We all remember it differently, but eventually we were introduced
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: to this guy Ken Jones.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: How long after the competition.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: It must have just been weeks because she's not there.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: Came out July the twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four. My
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: birthday is June the twenty fourth. Please send big presents
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: because it's coming up, and I know the record came
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: up month after my birthday, so it must have all
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: happened really quickly, and it was a hit quite quickly.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: Wait, a little bit slower. So you win the competition.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: In the part of the competition is you get a
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: single deal with Decca, which Ken Jones is now voisted
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: on you. Do you meet Ken Jones because of that
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: contrag deal?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: No, he was a friend of Chris White's uncle. This
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: is a bit bizarre connection. You know. I didn't know
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: Chris White's uncle. I didn't know Ryan Jones. But he
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: sat down and read through all these contracts and he said,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: but we can do better than this for you, and
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: we went with him. He got us to deal with
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: Decca and it was decided we recorded Decca Studios. And
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: this is how crazy things are. It would seem to
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: be the cool thing to record. Often they would record
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: through the night, but we'd started at seven o'clock, so
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: we're going to record at least through the evening, if
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: not the night. And we were given a very successful
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: recording engineer. He had a great track record, but because
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: we started at seven at night, he'd been I know
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: this sounds bizarre, but he'd been at a wedding all day. Unfortunately,
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: he was blind drunk when we turned up, but more
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: than that, he was really aggressive as well. And we
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: go into the studio at seven o'clock. This guy can
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: hardly stand and he's shouting and screaming and coming through
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: the headphones really really loud, the language terrible, and I'm thinking,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: after about twenty minutes of this, taking into account I've
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: been in the music business for sixty years. After twenty minutes,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: I thought, this isn't for me. This is not for me.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: But then we had a luck. He passed out. We
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: had to carry him out of the studio two flights
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: of stairs up into a black London taxi and actually
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: I never saw him again, and his assistant took over,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: and his assistant was Gus Dudgeon. Really, isn't that bizarre. Yes,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: that's Gus Dudgeon's first session ever. He never forgot that,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: and it was our first session ever. I never forgot
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: it either. And in that first session we recorded four
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: or five tracks, four maybe, and one of them is
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: She's not there.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go a little bit slower. I want to understand.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: You won the competition, and with that came the ability
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: to record. What was the prize exactly?
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: Well, this is we all disagree on this. If you
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: if Rod was here, he would tell you pass. The
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: prize was a deal with Decca, and I'd probably say okay,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: because I don't want to argue it's not true. It's
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: not true. We won two hundred and fifty pounds. But
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: the interest in having won the competition led us to
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: talking to people. It was sponsored by a big newspaper
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: and it created an interest. We were introduced to three managers.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: I remember apart from Ken Jones. This is the first
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: time manager. One was definitely a crook and he wanted
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: to give us drinks and we were so scared of him.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: We wouldn't have a drink. We would hardly sit down,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: and that wasn't going to happen very flash. The second
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: guy greeted us at his flat door in a silk
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: dressing gown, and I thought, I don't think this is
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: really for us. And he floated around and mentioned a
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: few things, but then he came to the door to
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: see us off, and he locked himself out of his
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: flat in his silk dressing gown. I thought, if he
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: can't get that together, he's not going to manage this band.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: We had to go around to the back of this
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: lack of block of flats and they had a system
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: on hoists for getting dustbins up to the flats and
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: down like that. I mean, he has it's quite an
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: older gentleman. And to get this older gentleman into this
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: kind of open box. It had sides on it, but
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: it didn't have a back in the front, and he
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: had to crouch down in this thing where the dustbin
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: would go, and we had to hoist him up to
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: his flat, which is on the first and the second one.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Bloody dangerous, I think first or second one. I thought, firstly,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: please don't let me look up and see what's happening
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: under the silk dressing gown. So I'm definitely looking at
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: the floor while I'm pulling on this rope. And secondly,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: please don't let him manage the band because he can't
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: even sort out his door key, let alone manager band.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: So that that went, and then yeah, we got a manager.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: Okay. In the movie it says that Ken Jones says, well,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: you know, if you want to write some original material,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: and it says Rod goes off and write, She's not there.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: What really happened.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: It's true. He was giving us a pep talk two
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: weeks before the session, and this is just a part
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: of the pep talk. I can't remember what you should rehearse, guys,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: this is really important, you know, and you get one
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: by the Apple. I can't remember what he said, but
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: in the middle of it he said, you know, you
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: could always write something for the session, and then went
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: on and spoke about other things. It. You know, I
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: couldn't think in terms of a band writing their own songs.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: I should have, really, because the Beatles had already started
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: doing that. But Rod and Chris went off and wrote
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: two songs in the next two or three days. Rod
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: wrote She's Not There and Chris wrote the B side,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: which is a good song too, you Make Me Feel Good.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: And that was it.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, before you went into the studio to cut them,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: did you rehearse them?
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: We did. We rehearsed them a lot, and I think
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: we all thought that they were special songs. Sometimes I
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: say to myself, but I knew She's Not There was
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: really special. But I'm going to be really honest with you.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: We were in two minds whether She's Not There or
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: the B side You Make Me Feel Good was the
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: better song when we were recording it, so it was
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: only afterwards that She's not there was chosen. It's funny,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: isn't I mean? Now, of course it's a fantastic song,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, you record four songs the first night.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: Then what happened, Well, the A side was chosen and
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: it came out very quickly. Things always moved very quickly
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: back in the sun. How quickly, well, I think it was,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: you know, four or five weeks through or four weeks
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: something like that.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, the record is done. Let's you know, it's totally different.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You're recording the one track back, then
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: recording mono.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: We're recording fast four track.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it's four track, you know, normally forget you're
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: all playing at the same time.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: No, the band played, and then we did the vocals
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: they did back in vocal Rodin christed, but we're on
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: one track. Roden Christ did back in vocals, run one
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: mic and I'm here in the same room at the
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: same time singing the lead vocal. And of course it's
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: all one.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Take, okay, and the instrumental part. Those were on how
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: many tracks and how many times did it take to
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: get that?
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's really quick. I mean, yeah, they might have
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: done four or five takes, but that would that would
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: have been it. I think based in drums is on
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: one guitar and keyboards was on another track, and then
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: lead vocal and backing vocals were on separate tracks. It
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: was something like that.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. So I mean, now there's so much equipment, but
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: you record, then you have to mix. In the modern world,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: there's been this way for decades to this point. You
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: might add compression, you might add weaverb you might take
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: a whole day to do one song. Okay, so everybody
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: touched the stuff. Do you remember what it took and
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: when it was that it was mixed down to the single.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: Well, this is a bone of contention with us. Ken
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: Jones was very strict with us and he would never
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: let us go to the mixes and so that was
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: all done. You know, we weren't there, We weren't involved
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: in the mixes at all. I know, for instance, that
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: he put a lot of compression on She's not there
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: because people are always talking about the breaths, you know, right,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: I can't remember where it comes down. And told me
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: about her the way she liked that's the thing. And
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: I mean some of that's real, but some of it
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: is helped by the compression that's on the track. But
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: I think overall, and she's not there, sounds great. I think.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: That's the whole thing. Yeah, it sounds not rough at all.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: It sounds very modern to this day.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: I agree with you. I agree with you. But after
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: that session, I think we always struggled as a band
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: accepting the mixes, and there were some quite fierce arguments
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: about why we weren't allowed to go into the mixes.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: But that first session and summertime also, I think is
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: a lovely track, and you made Me feel good. And
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: there was another real punky song that Rod wrote, It's
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: Alright with Me. We played that really recently. It's mad song,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: but it's like a punk song, and all of those
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: I think, so that was it. I think it was
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: four tracks and I thought they all sounded great. But
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: after that we were never really happy with the mixes.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: And I know, I keep moving forward. But the last
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: one we did was a cover of Little antonin the
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: Imperials going Out of My Head, and they mixed it
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: while we were out of the country. Well, we wouldn't
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: have been in the mix mixing studio anyway. But anyway,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: we came back and we were so disappointed. It had
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: been no resemblance to how we left it in our minds,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: and that was the end of our And it was
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: a fairly friendly breakup with Ken Jones. And that's when
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: especially Rod and Chris decided they wanted to make an
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: album with them in the production chair. And that's when
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: we recorded Odyssey on Oracle. There was no independent producer
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: in the studio. It was Rod and Chris produced that
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: with the help of the wonderful Abbey Road engineers Jeff
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: Emerick and Peter Vince, absolutely wonderful engineers.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back the first night you're recording the
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: four songs recorded on four tracks. Do they do a
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: rough mix, you know, instantaneously so you could hear it,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: or did you never even hear everybody together?
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: I think I probably heard a rough idea of it. Yeah,
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: it is sixty something years.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is I'm wondering what the
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: experience is when you actually hear it, go, Holy fuck,
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: this is this is unbelievable. Was that after the mix
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: or never until it became a hit.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: I didn't think I ever really felt like that. I'm
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: trying to remember. I think I thought it was pretty good.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, it comes ounds very it comes out in like
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: three weeks. Yeah, I mean we're in America, it's different.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: It's already hit in England by the time it gets here. Yeah,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: how did the ascension on the track? How did it break?
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you one thing that happened. There was
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: a TV show in the UK called Jukebox Jury, so
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: they'd have five stars would vote on whether the particular
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: record would They would pay play thirty seconds of a
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: record and then they'd vote whether this is going to
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: be a hit or a miss. And on the week
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: when She's Not There came out, George Harrison was on
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: the panel of Jukebox Jury and they played She's Not
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: There and he loved it. And I remember, and I
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: won't try and do a Liverpool accent, but I remember
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: he said, well done, Zombies. Obviously he didn't know us,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: he didn't know us from Adam, but he said, well done, zombies.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: That was a thrill when.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, sure it was.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: When George Harrison said She's Not There was a good
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: record well, blimey, yeah, that really took my breath away.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, it was on TV. That's a huge step. But
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: when did it start to become successful really quickly?
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: It's funny because I don't think Deca were particularly keen
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: on it. I don't know. I'm sure they weren't, but
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: it was a hit very quickly. Funnily enough, it came
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: out in America about three months later on Parrot on
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: Parrot and London Records who owned the Parrot, they weren't
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: keen on it either, But although it came out later,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: it was a hit quite quickly in America as well.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: It's funny, isn't it.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: The record is a hit. This was a lark. Yes, yeah.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: What's going through your mind? And what happens?
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: I think when you're young, you see, I don't know
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: the answer to that question, but I think when you're
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: young you take an awful lot for granted. It's you know,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: you just get on with it, don't you. Really. So
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: one day you're an amateur band playing at the local
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: rugby club and the next day, inexplicably, you're on huge tours.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: They used to these package tours in the UK, and
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: our management company was very involved in that. So shortly
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: after we played the old Varion Alium's rugby club, and
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: where Rod's drying his keyboard with the hair with the
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: hair dryer, We're touring with the Searchers, Deal Morriic and
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: the Isisley Brothers and some other artists as well around
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: some of the major venues in the UK. Wasn't a
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: big gap and we just had to get on with it.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: How was the reception in those multi gig tours insane?
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: I often said that, certainly for the first couple of years,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: I needn't a bothered singing at all. Really, I don't
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: think anybody heard anything very very noisy on those tours.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: How many songs would you play?
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: Not many? Two or three? Four? Maybe?
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, So now the records are hit, how often are
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: you working?
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: We were working at a lot, working all the time,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: and at the same time the pressure's on from Decca Records.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: We need another single in six weeks and that was
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: all the time we were with Decca. Another single in
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: six weeks. But the problem we had was the challenge
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: that we had was that Rod Argent and Chris White
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: had only just discovered that they could write songs, so
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: they didn't have a back catalog of songs, and they're
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: trying to write as we're going along, but we're touring
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: all the time, so there wasn't much time. The pressure
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: really went on for a follow up, and Rod had nothing,
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: and Chris White had one song and it was a
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: song called leave Me Be, and none of us thought
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: instead of hope and hell, of being a single. But
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: we we didn't understand enough about the record industry to
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: dig our heels in and say, well, you'll just you'll
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: have to wait, And so leave Me Be was released.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately it wasn't a hit, and it's it just seems
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: so such a short sighted way of doing things that
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: Decker would put the pressure on like that. It's almost
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: you know that in a very short period of time
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: your career is going to be over because they want
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: singles all the time, and no one can keep producing
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: singles self for what's the word, I can't think there's an.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: Extreme fulfilling prophecy.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: Self fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, you can't keep putting out singles
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: every six Well, I mean, I suppose the Beatles did,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: but they were the exception. We certainly couldn't.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: So how does tell her no come to be recorded.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: I you know, we were kept on by Decker even
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: though we'd had this flop record, And again we were
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: recording through the night, and I can't remember how many
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: other songs we recorded, but I remember how one of
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: the trigger for writing that song for Rod because we
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: toured with Dean Morrick and she was singing a lot
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: of Bert Baccarak songs and Rob was really impressed with
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: those songs and the kind of chords that they've made
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: up those songs. He's not copying anything in the songs,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: but he's just I can hear it now, Yeah, tell
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: her those sounds like a really simple song, and melodically
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: it is, but if you get someone to try and
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: play it, it's not simple. It's not simple at all.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: And he'd used the idea of some of those chords
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: from Burt Bacharak, So that's how that came about. Again,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: we were recording late, and as it happens, they did
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: all the tracks first, and I fell asleep and they
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: woke me up to same tell him, and I went
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: up there and I sang it, but the second chorus
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: I was still half asleep, and the second chorus I
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: just mumbled my way through it, but I kept going.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: And then I went into the control room aarters and
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: I said to Kenja's I'm really sorry. You know, I
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: just mumbled through that second chorus. I mean, can you
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: drop me in and I'll just do that. Don't worry
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: about that. That's fine, that's fine. And obviously he understood
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: the record industry better than me, because there's a mumbled
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: second chorus. The record went to number six in America
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: and pretty much sold a million copies, so he understood
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: it better than I did.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, so now you have the success, when's the first
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: time you get a check?
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I know we were getting checks. It's funnily enough,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: I don't. I think we did quite well out of
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: the records, not thousands and thousands, but enough to live.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: But I remember getting checks more for time of the
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: season than I do for.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: I'm actually asking question less about the checks. You're just
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: dirt bags hanging out in your hometown. Now you have
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: a hit record. When you go back home, there are
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: people who love you, and there are people will hate you.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, you come back the conquering heroes.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: Exactly what you said. I think there were people that
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: admired us, but you know, a lot of young guys
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: could be problems. And I can remember, this is my
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: sort of attitude to it. Always it's not going to
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: change me. This is not But it's really naive to
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: think like that because it changes other people. Doesn't matter
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: whether you change or not, they change. And I used
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: to love to go to the rugby clubs. I'd love
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: to go to the pub and have a few pints
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: and some guy becoming up, who do you think you are?
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: Before you know where you are? You know, they're rolling
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: their sleeves up and they want to fight, you know.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there were a few challenges locally. I was
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: never a very good fighter, but I did get involved
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: in a few fights. And I can't fight my way
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: out of a paper bag. I think famously at Rod's
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: twenty first, he sort of turned away for a minute
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: and I got in a fight. He said, I turned around,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: You've got one sleeve pulled off your pullover and blood
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: streaming down your nose. I need to turn around for
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: a second. And this guy, you know, just to get
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: him frisky, and you're off. So there was a little
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: bit of that.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: What'd your parents say?
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: I think my parents they weren't too keen on the fighting.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: But I think my parents are immensely proud actually, and
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: I'm very encouraging. You know. They were wonderful people.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what point did you start discussing going to America.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: It was quite soon, I guess when it was a
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: hit record. I know when we arrived here. We arrived
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: here just before Christmas nineteen sixty four, and we played
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: Murray the Kay's Christmas Show and we opened on Christmas
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: Day and we would play six, seven, eight shows a day,
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: but you only played two tunes, and there was fourteen
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: or sixteen acts Shangri Las, Dean Warwick again, Benny King,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: the Charell's, Chuck Jackson, lots of wonderful life, and we
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: had to follow Patti LaBelle and the Bluebells. How would
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: you remember, We've only just come into the business and
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: we're standing in the wings watching herb bring the house down.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: They were wonderful and we had to follow them. But
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: it was okay, it was all right. And that was
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a nerve wracking moment. I've got
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: to be honest, But okay, all those acts are there
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: at the Brooklyn Fox. Are you all hanging together being friends. Yes,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: to a large extent we were. There was great camaraderie
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: backstage because although we are abroad, you know, we're British
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: and there American. We opened on Christmas Day. They're away
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: from their families on Christmas Day the same as we are.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah, they were very supportive and there was really
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: great camaraderie backstage for the most part.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: How what was it being in America.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: It's very different. I was thinking about it on this
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: trip over here. Now America and the UK are much
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: more similar now, but then it was very very different.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: Got off the plane and we're walking into you know
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: where you show your passports and everything. This guy's got
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: a bloody gun. He's got a gun. I've never seen
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: a gun before. It was really scary. Anyway, this is
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: what happened to me. My mom never quite got into
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: the swing of me being in a band and everything
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: like that. So we went to the airport. There were
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: lots of people seeing us off at the airport. She
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: fought her way through and gave me a pack lunch
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: with an apple to take on the plane. And so
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: I think I had eaten the sandwiches, but I hadn't
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: eaten the apple. So the man with the gun opens
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: my bag. He took my mom's apple out of my
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: bag and he ate it in front of me. I thought,
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: this is really not very cool. Anyway, I kept quiet.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: He got a gun, and then the next guy I
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: spoke to took me off out of the line and
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: he had a gun too. Took me off out of
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: the line. I'm in trouble. He walked me across the
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: hall and into a phone booze and made a phone call,
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: and he said, this is my daughter. Would you just
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: say hello to I thought I was going to be arrested.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: So that was that was our entry into America. And
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: then we were met by two big Cadillac or Lincoln
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: limousines and run to the airport. And the next day
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: the record company sent us the bill for the You know,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: I would have taken the subway if I'd known we're
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: going to be built for them. So that then that
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: was our entry into America.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, you go back. I assume you tour until you
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: come back to go on the Dick Clark tour.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: M I don't remember too much about what happened when
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: we went back to the UK, but yes, we came
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: back and toured on the Dick Clark Tour, which but
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: because with Mary the Kay we'd just been in New
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: York and I think we played on the first Hullablue
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: TV show. Jack Jones was the compare. The New Christian
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: Minstrels were on there, and you know, and we were
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: on there, and then we went home and we came
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: back for the Dick Clark Caravan of Stars and we
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: were on a bus for for six weeks with Del
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: Shannon and the ad Libs, the Valvelettes, lots of wonderful acts.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: Well I've forgotten who some of them were. Now, isn't
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: it awful?
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: Okay? But you're on the you know, it's different now
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: many acts prefer a bus to going commercial plane anyway,
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: but they have these births. You're going on a regular
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: bus and you got to sit there and you got
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: to sleep on the bus. What's that like?
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: It was tough, I tell you, because some of the acts,
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, we weren't being paid very much. But some
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: of them we've been paying so little that they couldn't
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: afford a hotel every night. So on alternate nights we
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: would leave the gig as slowly as possible, and they
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: would drive through the night very slowly, so we'd we'd
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: sleep on the bus but in regular seats, you know,
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: and and we'd arrive and hope that we could get
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: into the hotel the next night. So it was it
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: was challenging. But we were young, but it was it
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: was quite tough.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: Okay. So the American perspective is, we're just living our lives.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: The Beatles hit, there's a British invasion, you're part of that.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: We see you as equal to all the other racks. Okay,
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: did it feel like that to you?
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: We weren't. I think that. I think there were there
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: were the top, the top ones, you know. I mean
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: obviously the Beatles were that they were on their own,
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: the Stones probably, and then there are other ones that,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: funnily enough, were really successful here that weren't so successful
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: in the UK. So Herman's Hermits were huge here. We
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: played with them and I saw the audience reaction they got,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: but they weren't so big in the UK. The Dave
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: Clark five weren't so big in the UK as they
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: were here, and we weren't on a par with them,
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: So it was kind of like a league, you know,
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: they were the top ones, and I think we were Oh.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you were seen as top tier from the
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: American perspective. So you go on the second American tour
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: that's sixty five. In the movie the documentary, you talk
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: about going to the Philippines. When does that happen?
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: That was towards the end of the band. That was
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: in sixty seven, and it.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: Was wait, wait, wait, so let's not go there. Okay,
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: walk me through what happens between the Dick Clark tour
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: leading up to the end of the band.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that in many ways things were slipping.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: The records weren't charting, well, they were charting, but very
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: low down, you know. And also I think that we
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: concentrated or put our attention too much towards the UK
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: and America. These are the charts that we followed. Because
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: when the band finished, we realized that the Zombies always
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: had a hit somewhere in the world the whole time
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: we're together, which seems insane, but there was no Internet
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: in those days, and often you might you might never
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: find out that you'd had a hit, but you also
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: might find out months later that you'd had a hit,
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: And of course you would have liked to have been
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: there to promote it and maybe hopefully play some dates,
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: you know, but we never knew. The Zombies always had
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: a hit somewhere, but they didn't know it, and so
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: so it seemed as though that most awful of things
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: in Koreas, if you like, we started at the top
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: and then gradually slipped down the pole, you know, even
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: though I think we were getting better as a band,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: there was that last record going out of my head.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: Because we were in America a lot we knew songs
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: that were hits here that people in the UK didn't know,
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: and that was one it hadn't been a hit, and
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: I thought we did a really good version of it,
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: and the mix was horrendous, and it was at that
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: point we just couldn't work with Ken Jones anymore. And
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: again I was kind of on the periphery of this
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: because to some extent, the writers Rod Argent and Chris
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: White were senior members of the band, if you like,
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: and a lot of the negotiations were done with them.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if they realized that, but it
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: was the case. We ended up getting a one record
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: deal with CBO.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, just to be clear, this is before or after
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: the Philippines. This is just after the phillip So tell
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: us what happens in the Philippines. Well, it's an extraordinary experience.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: We were asked if we wanted to go to the Philippines.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: I'd be honest with you. I didn't really know where
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: the Philippines was, and I thought we would go there
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: and be playing. It was it was called the Aaronetta
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: Coliseum where we were going, and I thought, maybe that's
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: a hotel and we'd play in the foyer in the
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: evenings and we'd sit on the beach and the day.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: I thought we were going for ten days, and I
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: thought it would be fun. You know, this is my feeling.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: I think at the time the contracts were actually being
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: sent to me. No one else wanted to do that.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: It just had to sign it.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: That wasn't doing anything other than signing contracts. And so
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: we arrived there at three I think someone bought the
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: cheapest ticket flight you could ever do. So we're flying
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: to the Philippines and stopped in Paris, then Rome, then
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: in the Middle East, then on both sides of India,
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: and then in Hong Kong, where we had a seven
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: hour layover and then we flew to Manila. You can imagine.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: I can't it was like thirty hours, or maybe that's
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: an exaggeration. It was a long time, but you know,
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: it probably was thirty It was a long time. Probably
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: could have got there on a bike faster. Anyway, we
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: arrive at three o'clock in the morning. There are thousands
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: of people at the airport, so I'm thinking there must
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: be someone famous on this plane. I'm getting off the plane,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: I'm looking over them. I'm looking backwards over my shoulder
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: to see who was on the plane. And then they
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: start putting up flowers and things around our neck, and
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: I can see there's like a movie newsreel camera thing filming.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: It was totally unprepared for this filming us. And we
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: go to the aeron Aaronessa Coliseum and at the time,
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: I believe it was the second biggest call it arena.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: There was one in Texas that was bigger. There was
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: like a hotel at the back and a restaurant where
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: we stayed. It was huge, and we opened to twenty
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: eight thousand people. Now those figures might not be absolutely accurate,
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: but that's what I was told. I can tell you
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: it was a shedload of people. It was big. We
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: stayed for ten days. That was a Friday night. The
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: Saturday we played a matin eight of fifteen thousand, and
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: Saturday night we played to thirty two thousand, and it
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: went on roughly like that for the whole ten nights. Sadly,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: we were being paid eighty pounds a night, out of
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: which we had to play a manager and an agent,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: so we were probably playing for about five pounds each
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: a night to twenty eight thousand people or thirty two
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: thousand people on the Saturday night. And you know, we
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: have never been people who are particularly motivated by money.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: But it just starts to get a bit ridiculous. You know,
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: we've got the non writers, have got no money anyway,
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: We're playing this huge venue in getting nothing, and it
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: it just it turned very strange. We asked the promoter
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: there who his name was, Aaronetta. It was his coliseum.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: He had a private army, you know, and he wanted
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: to keep us in there. It's unbelievable, you know, very
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: much in their power. He got our passports, he had
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: armed guards who were used to circular and he wanted
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: us to stay inside there. But we met people because
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: there was a hotel and restaurant backstage. Lots of people
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: would come backstairs and they would ask us to pass this,
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: and we would go out in the boot of the
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: trunk of their cars. These people had submachine guns on
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: the doors of the stadium, so we would go out
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: to passes and things like that. But at the end
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: of the ten days we said, well, we'd like to stay,
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: and we'd like to I didn't actually speak to him,
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: but I know they asked for a couple of guys.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: Tour manager and someone else in the band asked for
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: one thousand dollars a night and fifty percents at all,
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: and you kicked him out and said, look, I paid
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: for your flights here, I'm paying for your flights back,
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: off you go. You know. So it got very difficult.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: We managed to get our passports back, but he made
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: it very uncomfortable for us being in the Philippines. We
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: went to Hong Kong whilst another promoter and tried to
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: get us some dates, and eventually he managed to get
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: us some dates. We went back to the Philippines and
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: the first gig we got we were playing two on
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: the first night. It was at the club called the
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: Nile Club, and it was sort of the place to be.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: We'd sound checked, we'd had a meal, We're going to
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: go on stage, and they said, sorry, you can't play,
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: and it was very obvious they'd been threatened. So we
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: didn't play. The second We went on to the second
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: place and we did play, and in the morning we
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: got on a plane to fly to another island. We
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: got a newspaper and that second club burnt down in
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: the night. Now I'm not like, maybe it was a coincidence,
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: but that's that's what happened in the Philippines. The audiences
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: were wonderful the Philippine and people were wonderful. But we
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: just got involved in a very strange setup, and it
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: was it was very difficult, Okay.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: In the movie, which I keep referencing, you talk about
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: playing a gig for almost no money and then talking
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: to the promoter, promoter says, you know, it's too expensive
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: to have you back. Who was getting the money?
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, in some ways I wonder whether I
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: didn't say too much. And and but remember when you
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: see the movie, I might have been talking for an
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: hour and a half when I get to that bit,
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: because no one's alive now that we're talking about so
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: they can't speak, They can't give their side of the argument,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: you know, but it is true. I was talking when
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: I spoke to a promoter and I'm just the place
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: was heaving. This is back in the UK. The place
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: was heaving, and I said, I see you next time.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: It won't be a next time. What is it? Why's
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: that you're too expensive? I knew what we remember, I said,
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: I was signing the contracts. No one else wanted to
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: do it. I knew what we were getting and I said, well,
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: what did you pay for us? And he told me
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: and it was three and a half times what we
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: were getting. But listen, I don't want to get into
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: too much details.
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: Well who do you think was getting the money?
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I can certainly tell you it wasn't us. Who
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: do you think was getting the money?
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: Do I think it's usually the manager who takes the money?
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: Well you said that, not me?
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, Just moving on. You're recording Odyssey and Oracle for CBS.
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: Forget with hindsight when you're making it. Is it a
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: good experience? Do you think it's good? Or the band
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: is running on fumes? Let's just finish the record. What
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: was going on?
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: Well, again, I think we remember this differently. I'm a
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: herd Rod say that we knew the band was going
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: to finish, and we felt that we would like to
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: make an album before the band finished. I didn't feel
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: like that. I thought the band was still going. But
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: that's not an argument with him. We just remember it differently,
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: you know, I really enjoyed it. We had a really
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: small budget. We had one thousand pounds from CBS, and
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: somehow we managed to get into Abbey Road Studios, which
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: was called EMI Studios at the time. It's in a
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: road called Abbey Road, but it was called EMI Studios,
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: but we weren't on EMI, and as far as as
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: I know, very few or no non EMI artists had
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: ever recorded in Abbey Road. So I don't know how
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: we got in there, because it was at the time
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: was definitely the best studio in the country. Because we've
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: got a really small budget, we rehearsed really extensively before
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: we went in. We knew what songs we were going
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: to record, and what key and what the arrangement was.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: We're just looking for a performance and we went in
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: and named check these engineers before I think it was
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: mostly Pietervince, but Emeric certainly helped was recording as well,
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: and he actually engineered Time of the Season. Jeff Emeric,
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: and of course he worked with the Beatles and later
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: on with Paul McCartney, and I remember it as a
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: really good experience. We recorded quite quickly and I thought
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: it sounded pretty good. The only time there was a
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: little bit of tension was actually on Time of the Season.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: It was the last song that was written for the album,
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: and it was the last song that was recorded, and
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: we hadn't really fully rehearsed that particular song. It was
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: finished in the morning before we recorded it, and Rod
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: was trying to guide me through the phrasing of the song.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: And he's in the control room, and of course all
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: the engineers and the band and everyone is in there,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: and I forgot that I've got the headphones on. He's
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: trying it. No, Colin, can you be more on the
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: beat with that phrase? Can you push this? Can you
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: do it? And in front of me, I've got a
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: big clock. I know we're running out of time and
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: we're running out of money, and there was a red light,
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: big red light underneath the studios live it's running out
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: of time, and I'm getting more and more fraught, and
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: the language between us is getting worse, and I forget,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: there's all other people, it's not just me and all
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: the other people in there, and I can't really say
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: the language. But it came to the point was listen,
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: if you're so good, you come in here and you
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: sing it. And he said to me, you're the bloody
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: lead singer, your bloody stand there till you get it bloody, right,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: But it wasn't bloody that he was saying. And it's
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: always made me smile because at the same time as
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: we're having this kind of back and forth, I'm singing
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: is the time of the season for love thing? And
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: in between doing this, it's you bloody get that freak,
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: come on, get it on the beat? Why can't you?
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that was the background for that track. That
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: was the only bit of tension, though otherwise I remember
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: it as great fun.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: So how does the BM break up?
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: Well, we were by now a single was released and
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: they are in the UK. It was still a singles market.
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: It was moving towards albums, but at this point it
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: was still singles were all important, and CBS released care
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: of Sale forty four, which I thought was probably one
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: of all the most commercial track on the record, but
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: it was nothing happened. A couple of nice reviews, one DJ,
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: quite a famous DJ, really loved the album, a guy
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: called Kenny Everett, who was very successful in the UK.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: But the media no interest in the album, all, the
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: single at all, and it just seemed as though, you remember,
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: we just had this experience in the Philippines which was
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: really scary. The three non writers were broke by now.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: We didn't have a manager, we didn't have an agent.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: I remember we went and talked to an agent and
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: I could tell he wasn't really interested in us at all,
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: and everything seemed to be pointing towards it's time to
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: move on guys. You know, Rod called a meeting at
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: his flat. He shared a flat with Chris White, and
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: the first thing that happened was Paul Atkinson said, guys,
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: I've just got married. I have to get a job.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: I haven't got any money. And then from memory, Rod said, look,
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: if Paul's leaving, I think we should finish the band.
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: And I've always been embarrassed I didn't say anything. I
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: wish i'd have said something, but I didn't say anything,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: and that was it.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: It was hard to feel.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: I felt deflated, sad, devastated, depressed. I didn't have a plan.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: B I didn't know what the hell I was going
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: to do. I remember driving home feeling very lonely. Yeah,
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: it was it was over.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: How long until you end up working in the insurance place?
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: Fairly soon. It was two or three months. I actually
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: heard my parents discussing my future from another room, and
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: you know, they would have I need never have worked.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: They would have supported me if they possibly could have. Well,
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: I mean they I don't know if they could have really,
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: but I did. My dad say, well, you know, just
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: because he's been in a band, he can't just sit
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: around doing nothing for the rest of his life. He's
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: got to do something. So I started getting on the
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: phone and I literally took the first job I was offered.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: People always laugh at I ended up in it. I
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: don't know anything about insurance. I ended up in an
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: insurance company. But the first I went to three interviews,
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: and the first one it was for a sales director.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: I thought this sounds pretty good sales. I could see
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: myself in a slick suit, you know, maybe with a
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: company car, and so a friend of mine drove me up.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: It's quite a long way to go there. I thought
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: we'd make a day of it, and so I was relaxed.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: We went to the pub first and had a few beers.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: So I see, I was very inexperience, in naive. I
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: would have smelled of beer when I went in for
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: this interview. And also I was very keen on making
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: eye contact. And this guy said, you do realize if
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: you get this job, we would have to work together.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: Obviously he thought I had some kind of you know,
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: mental violent problem or something. And then just as I
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 2: was getting up to leave, he said, and how would
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: you feel about selling ladies lingerie at retail? I thought
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: I was going to be a director of sales of something,
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: but it was selling ladies underwear into shops. I'm really
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: quite relieved I didn't get that job. So people laugh
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: at I'd got a job in insurance. I could have
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: been selling ladies underwear. You know, I didn't get that.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: I went for a second interview and the guy, I mean,
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: I was just very naive if some kind of electric
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: putting alarms into factories, And he said, tell me in
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: your own words, why do you want this job? And
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: I said to him, well, I don't really want it.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: He said, let me stop me there, you won't get
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: this job. But no one's ever said that before. Would
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: you just stay and talk to me for a while.
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: I'm quite interested. So we had a nice chat. I
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: was just being open and honest to him. I didn't
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: want the job. I needed a job. If he said
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: why do you need this job? I would have answered
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 2: it differently anyway. And then there was a job advertising insurance,
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: and I don't think anybody else wanted to work in insurance.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 2: You know they were desperate.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what is it like? You know this is
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: reference in the documentary You're there, everybody else ses. He
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: is the lead singer of the Zombies.
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 2: It was a tricky moment the first time I walked
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: into the insurance company, because they did all sort of
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: stare a bit. But there's not only lasted for a
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: day or two. But the real tricky moment for me
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: was the first time I had to answer the phone.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: I know nothing about insurance, absolutely nothing, and some of
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: the accounts were worth millions. Very quickly I was given
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: the British Army has social clubs and I don't know
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 2: what it stands for, but everyone knows them as NAFFI.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that stands for, but it's the
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: social clubs for the British Army. And they had the
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: insurance for it, so I would imagine that's worth millions
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: and millions of pounds. They gave that to me and
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: the women. The woman who phoned me about it, you know,
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: she was saying, using insurance terms, I couldn't tell you
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: what it was all about, and she sucked me out. Really,
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: I tried. I'm quite a good bluffer. I tried to
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: give the impression I knew what I was talking about,
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: but I only lasted about five minutes. She would talk
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: to me after that. But I did handle some big
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: accounts and I did manage to bluff it.
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: How long did you last there?
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: Well, the time of the season started going up the
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 2: charts after about six months, and so every second call
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: I got was from record companies and producers saying, you
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: want to make records again because no one was interested
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: when the Zombies finished. And I must admit, you know,
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: I wasn't a person who got on the phone and pushed,
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 2: but then the phone started ringing and a guy called
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 2: Mike Hurst, who was a very successful producer at the time.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: He produced the early Cat Stevens records. I'm not sure
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: if there hits in America, but Matthew and Son we.
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: All knew them. They weren't not regular radio hits, but he.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: Was big well, they were huge hits in the UK.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: And then he wanted to produce me, and I wasn't
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 2: I was still devastated about the Zombers. I wasn't sure
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: if I wanted to try again. But he said, look,
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: I tell you what. I'll get Olympics, which is where
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: the Stones used to record in Barns. I'll get that.
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: I'll put some tracks together and you come along after
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: the office and put some vocals on the tracks and
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: let's see what happens. And he got the idea of
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: re recording She's not there. That's bit of a strange idea,
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: but I didn't know if it was going to lead anywhere,
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 2: so I just said, well, okay, we'll do it. And
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: then somehow I ended up with this name, Neil MacArthur,
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: and I've seen him quite recently and I always thought
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: it was his idea that I was Neil MacArthur. He
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 2: thought it was my idea. So where that came from
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know. But I ended up recording under the
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: name of Neil MacArthur, a re recording if She's not there,
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: and it was a hit in the UK and I
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: was back in the music business. No one was more
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: surprised than me or Neil. Neil was surprised too that
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 2: it had happened.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, just go back a step. How do you find
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: out the time of the season is catching on?
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 2: People started calling me. I didn't believe them to start with.
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: I thought the Zombies was over. I think maybe Paul
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 2: Atkinson was calling me some people in America, because you know,
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: it went through the charts very slowly, and so it
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 2: was sort of you know what, Timember the Seasons come
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 2: into the top one hundred in the state, No, can't
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: have it came in and then over a period of weeks,
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: you know, it's eighty sixty five and you're sort of
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: dreading the next phone call it's going to have gone down.
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: But in cash Box it actually went to number one.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: It was gigantic. There was no thought of reforming the band.
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: Not one iota, never a conversation. Nothing. Mostly I think
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: because Rod and Chris were really very involved in Argent
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: at that point.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: So how did you feel that they restarted without you?
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what can you say? I mean, it
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: was a strange feeling. It was a strange feeling. I
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 2: was just a fan of Argent, you know. I thought
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: Argent were incredible. I used to pay for tickets to
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: go and see them. I just thought they were fantastic
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: and I knew them. I went to some of their
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 2: very early rehearsals, so I knew they were going to
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: be good. I really did.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: How did they find Russ Ballen?
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 2: Well, they let me get this right. They went to
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: see Unit four plus two because they were after Bob Henryt,
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: who was the drummer in Unit four plus two. And
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: it's really funny because they went to see them play
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 2: thinking they could creep in at the back and no
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: one would see them. When there was no one there
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: when they got, you know, this very small so they
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: walked in and it was really obvious that they were
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: there and they'd gone to see Bob Henritt. And I
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: think that they Russ Ballard was in the band as
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: well at that point, and I think they were very
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: impressed with Russ and I think maybe, I mean, this
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: is a little bit outside of my knowledge. Really it's
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: been explained to me, but I maybe don't remember correctly.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 2: But either I think it was a bit of both.
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 2: They thought Buss Ballard was fabulous, which he is, and
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 2: also I think Bob Henritt recommended him as well. And
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: what a what a great band. They were fabulous, great band.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: How do you end up playing with Alan Parsons?
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: Well, Alan was really he was an assistant engineer at
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: Abbey Road when we were recording Odyssey and Oracle, and
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: I spoke to him a bit. I mean, I certainly
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: remember him from then, and also he lived near me.
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 2: I bought my first flat in West Hampstead and I
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: used to see him in Hampstead Village, which is in
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: northwest London on a Saturday morning. He used to drink
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: in a pub called the Flask, and I used to
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: drink in this sometimes. So we knew one another vaguely,
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: and that's that's basically it. I think I might have
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 2: asked him about producing me as well at one point,
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: but by then he'd got the project going and so
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 2: he wasn't really producing other people. And I also knew
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 2: Eric Wilson vaguely as well. He'd come to some Zombie
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 2: gigs and they just called me up and said, I
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: think the first one I did with that was that
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 2: Eagle will Rise Again. And to start with, they used
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: to give me about a week's notice. They would send
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 2: me an assetate in those days and they'd give me
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 2: a week to learn the song, so Eagle will Rise Again.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: I got a week old and wise I got a week.
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 2: But then the later ones they would phone me up
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: and say, we've got this song. Come down to the studio.
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: We'll play it through to you learn it. And I
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 2: didn't say learn it in the stupid That's what it was,
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: and we'll have a go at it. And that was
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: a bit more challenging. You know, you'd learn it in
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 2: front of Alan and Eric and you and you have
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: to record it. But there, I mean, those project albums
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: are wonderful, great songs because Alan's a magical producer as well.
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: It was a wonderful experience.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: So how do you ultimately reform the Zombies again?
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: If Rod was here, he would tell you a slightly
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 2: different story, but I'll tell you the truth. I was.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: I had a solo band don Airy, who's the keyboard
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: player in Deep Purple. He'd already played in a lot
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 2: of big heavy metal bands, and I'd met him, I
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: knew him vaguely, and he took it upon himself to
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: you let me know that I should be out playing live.
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 2: He started calling me. Must have called me five or
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 2: six times. You should be playing, like you've got to
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 2: get out playing. But at this point I hadn't played
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 2: for twenty something years. I've made lots of records, some
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: had been hits. I had a little bit of success.
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: I probably was more scared than anything I could. You
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: could say anxious if you like, but scared would probably
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 2: fit it better. And in those days I used to
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: like to have a couple of beers in the evening
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: quite I liked Stellar Artois quite strong. And he just
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: picked the right moment. The fifth or sixth phone call,
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 2: I was on my second Stellar Artois and he said,
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 2: you should be out playing it. Okay, I will, And
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 2: he said, right, you don't have to do anything. I'll
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 2: put a band together, I'll rehearse them, just come up
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: and we'll run through and then we'll do a gig.
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 2: And that's what we did, and he got a great
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 2: band together, all really really good players, and it held
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: together for quite a time, but one by one they
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: drifted off, and eventually don Airy drifted off, and he
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: played with lots of good people, but for the last
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: I think twenty years, has been with Deep Purple. And
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: I got another keyboard player. But this keyboard player good player,
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 2: but he had an achilles heel in that he wrote
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: his own songs, and if anyone asked him to play
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: at the local coffee shop but his own songs, he
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: would be off. And so I would turn up to
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 2: a date and I didn't have a keyboard player. And
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: the last time this happened, it happened. I mean, there's
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: no warning. He just would go, and we managed to
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: scramble some guy in who didn't know me and didn't
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: know any of my songs. I don't know how he
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 2: got through the evening. And this I had new guys
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: and everything. I had my regular bass player, our mother
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: was on his second gig, and the guitarist was on
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 2: his second gig, and the keyboard player didn't know any
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 2: of the songs at all. And I thought I was
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: going to have heart failure on this show. I thought
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: I'm going to die if I go on like this.
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: And I phoned Rod. I didn't think he would be interested.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: I really didn't because he was a very successful producer
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 2: and he hadn't played live that much. And I said, Rod,
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: I've got six dates left on this tour. It's driving
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 2: me nuts. You know, this guy just keeps not showing up.
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 2: Would you help me out and play these six dates?
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: And I was really surprised, but blessed him. He said, Look,
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 2: of course I'll help you out in the six dates,
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 2: but I don't want to go back on the road
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: full time, but I will play the six dates. And
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 2: he did, and it was magical and he loved it,
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 2: and those six dates developed into twenty five years.
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, how hard was it for you to call him?
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: Very hard? Very hard? Well, I think I've always been
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 2: a bit in aura of Rod. He's a world class musician.
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I did find it difficult. It was because
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't have a choice, and also I didn't think
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 2: he'd want to do it either, honestly, didn't think he wanted.
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: How often did you have contact with him in the
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: ensuing years.
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, quite a lot, and I would talk to him
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: four or five times a year something like that, but
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 2: not very regularly, so it was it was difficult, and
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: partly because I didn't think he'd want to do it,
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: but he did, and it was It was great for
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: both of us. None of us were expecting what happened,
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 2: the second incarnation of the Zombies. Who would have thought that.
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 2: We thought the Zombies finished in nineteen sixty seven, and
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: then when we started playing, people get asking for zombie tinges.
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: When after those six dates we continued, but we played
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: hardly any zombie songs. I'd had a few hits, He'd
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: had a few hits. We played solo stuff, and people
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: kept asking for zombie tunes. But Rob was adamant we
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 2: wouldn't call the band the Zombies for like six or
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 2: seven years. We're not the zombies. We can't call ourselves
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: the zombies. I said, okay, But in the end we
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: were playing twenty zombie tunes to an audience that had
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 2: come to hear the Zombies. And then in one day
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: he was talking about the artwork on the next album
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: and he said, I hope we won't mind me having
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 2: a bit of a chuckle. But it was quite funny
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 2: because he sort of said I had a dream and
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about that famous speech, and I had
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 2: a dream and it was the artwork for the album
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: and it was a white dove doing something and the zombies,
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 2: and I thought, did he just say the zombies? I
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: thought we weren't using them the zombies, and I didn't
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 2: say anything, And from then on we were the zombies.
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 2: We had to have a sit down with Rod Argent,
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 2: with Chris White and Hugh Grundy and have a chat
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 2: with them about it, and they were okay. I mean
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 2: I don't think they were that keen to start with,
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: but that they were okay in the end. And then
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: we were the zombies again, the second incarnation of the Zombies.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: Well, of course, it's been an amazing success live shows,
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 1: getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: But you're in Los Angeles right now promoting the new
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 1: Zombies documentary Hung Up on a Dream. How did that
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 1: come to be?
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of it was down to
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 2: our management company, of the Rocks. They felt that we
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: had a story to tell and it would be great
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: to do a documentary, and through mutual friends, they were
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 2: introduced to Robert who had already made movies in Hollywood scripted,
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: fully funded movies. But he's also a musician, and I
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 2: think that really helped. We were introduced to him on
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: a zoom call. He'd made movies, he was a musician
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 2: in his own right, and he came over as a
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: genuine fan of the Zombies, and he won us over
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 2: very quickly. So it came about, yes, just through people talking,
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 2: you know, I management company talking to a middleman who
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: who knew Robert, and then he made it very easy
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 2: for us. We would just turn up and talk.
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: How long has this been in production?
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 2: Well, it probably started a couple of years ago, I think,
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 2: but it's been it kept being re edited, but I
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: mean a nearly final version has probably been around for
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 2: nine months or so. I would have thought, and are
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 2: you happy with it? I think it's great. I think
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 2: it's really really good. I haven't seen the final cut
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: that there are some I think, some subtle changes, but
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 2: I'm going to see it tonight because I'm going to
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: be part of a Q and A afterwards, and I thought,
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I really ought to see it again because
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 2: one or two questions have come up, real subtle things.
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it in suntme, but my experience in
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: the insurance office has really helped me, you know, like
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 2: when I learned to bluff, and so I've managed to
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: bluff my way through it because one or two things
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 2: have come up and I've thought I need to see
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 2: it again. So I'm going tonight. I'm really excited about it.
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: I'm going to see it tonight.
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I think you know the story well enough you
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 1: won't have to bluff, and you've certainly been very open
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 1: and honest. You know, Listen, you're very convivial. You tell
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 1: a great story. I could talk to you forever, but
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: I think we've come to the end of the feeling
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: we've known. Colin. I want to thank you so much
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 1: for taking this time with my audience.
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much for having me on the show.
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've for a long time I'd loved to
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: have been on this show. I say, you know, I'm
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 2: just really happy to have been. I've really enjoyed having
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 2: a chat.
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, as I said earlier, and I've experienced.
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 1: You have no idea how big the zombies were. You're saying, Oh,
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 1: I did it for a couple of years and then
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: the band fell apart. The zombies were as big as
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: any of the other acts, and it sounded unique. It
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 1: had this darkness where some of the other like animals
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 1: records like don't Bring Me Down, We're dark, but they
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: had a very period sound. They were rough, where the
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 1: zombies songs were not rough. They were as they sueing generous.
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 1: There was nothing else like them. You know, she's not there,
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: tell her not that. Of course, at the time of
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: the season, and there was no more zombies. I mean
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 1: the average person, it was like, yeah they were. They
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: were just like you know, nobody is the Beatles and
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: also the Stones. But in the next year down zombies
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 1: were as big as anybody.
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 2: I know, it's extraordinary, but if you had any one
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 2: of the zombies in here, I don't think we've ever
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: been able to understand that. And it's a bit late
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 2: in the day now for it to get through. But
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 2: it's very kind if you just say that, and I'm
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 2: thrilled that you see it that way. But we we
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know, we just think we're just young kids
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 2: from San Jobn's.
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: Really there is a magic in these records, and just
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: like anything magical, you know, especially Yeah, they're cut really quickly,
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: and you know, I went to see Journey the pr person.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: We were having dinners, so I gotta go to the
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 1: Hollywood Bowl and they have this leads sing from the
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: Philippines ironically, and I'm there and the whole audience is
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 1: singing so well, you know, it's not Steve Perry, but
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: the songs are so iconic the audience owns them. Same
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 1: thing with the zombies. The audience now owns those records.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: Those records are forever, okay, irrelevant whether they know a
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: single person in the band or the story. They remember
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: where they were and you know, time of the season
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 1: to use a you know there's an evergreen never dies,
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 1: you know, it just keeps up. Okay, I'm getting the
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: signal you have to move on to your next gig. Yes,
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 1: So until next time. This is Bob left Sex