Latest / Tits, Wit, & Grit / Self-Worth, Discipline, and Learning to Ask for Help with Ilya Lerma

Transcript

Self-Worth, Discipline, and Learning to Ask for Help with Ilya Lerma · Tits, Wit, & Grit

• Sara Frasca: Tits Wit and Grit is a podcast created to hold honest, intelligent conversations with women who lead, build, and navigate demanding professional lives. This podcast was born from a belief that women benefit from spaces where experience is honored, perspective is shared openly, and leadership can be discussed in both depth and candor, and maybe even a little laughter. Each episode brings forth voices that will offer insight drawn from their experience, and we will all speak honestly about leadership, resilience, ambition, and personal evolution. So let's get started. Tits, wit, and grit. Tracy Laskos: So today we're joined by Ilya Lerma, a nationally recognized civil trial attorney based in Phoenix, Arizona. For more than two decades, Ilya focused her work on complex personal injury cases. ⁓ including traumatic brain injuries and catastrophic accidents. She's known not only for her legal skill, but for the way she brings the human story to life in the courtroom, helping juries truly understand the impact behind the facts. Beyond her practice, Ilya is a sought after trial coach and keynote speaker, working with attorneys across the country on strategy, storytelling, and how to show up with clarity and conviction in high-stake moments. She's also served as past president of the Arizona Association for Justice, continuing to shape and elevate the legal community. At her core, Ilya's work is about advocacy in its truest form, standing beside people in some of the hardest moments of their lives and helping them find a path forward. If that doesn't say badass, Ilya, I ⁓ just... you Ilya Lerma: Thank you very much. It's a gracious introduction. Laura Raether: So is it true? Ilya Lerma: You know, I have to say it is, it is true. ⁓ I certainly didn't always feel like a badass, but at this point in my life, I do. I embrace it. Laura Raether: That's awesome. Tracy Laskos: I love it. That's great. That's great. ⁓ Sara Frasca: really great. So tell us about an ⁓ shit moment that you've had in your career. Something that has just been like, ⁓ shit. Ilya Lerma: ⁓ ⁓ My ⁓ shit really came when I was struggling. ⁓ after I'd lost a couple of cases, not even a trial. couldn't even get to trial. I'd lost several cases in a row and I was feeling really low and starting to feel like maybe this isn't for me. And I was actually thinking about taking a sabbatical. I'm going to go wash dogs at PetSmart. And that's a true story. There was a PetSmart around the corner from my house and I was like, I clearly need a break. I'm doing something wrong. Everybody seems to understand the law better than me. because I'm not getting to jury trials. And when I do, my results were kind of win some, lose some. I felt like below average or mid-limbs affair. And so I just really wanted a change. And I had a colleague who said, hey, you should come to this seminar. We're sponsoring a couple of new attorneys. So if you want to go, we'll send you." And I said, well, I'm not really new. I've been at this for a while. And he's like, no, no, you really have to come. And ⁓ so I ended up going. It was just how I got there is kind of a story and on its own. But it was in that seminar that things really turned around for me. And I felt like, I didn't fully understand what it was that I was experiencing. was it was a seminar that was very different. The team that was putting on was talking a lot about the psychology of the courtroom. And it wasn't so much about, know, here, you know, I won a million dollars. Here's how I did it. And that kind of seminar. And it was more ⁓ really understanding that you have to construct the wins and construct the case. And here's how you do it. And that was that seminar was really pivotal because I met my trial partner who actually told me, he said, you have the goods to make an excellent trial attorney. Don't quit. He said, please don't go watch dogs at best. He said, you're good. You just don't understand that you have to do more than when on the facts, the law and the evidence, he says, and I can teach you. what you need to learn. And he did. And it absolutely just ⁓ changed the course of everything. That was kind of a wrong answer. ⁓ Laura Raether: That's it. Sara Frasca: It's great. Laura Raether: No, I mean, Ilya for our listeners, so the oh shit in that was, I mean, don't give up, take advice from others, mean, kind of break it down for us. Ilya Lerma: sure. So the old shit was in a couple of things. The old shit was, I'm going to have to really dedicate myself to this because clearly I'm not going to learn it quickly. Right. And that was really, I think the old shit was realizing if this is something that I really want, if what I really want to do is trial work at a high level, I'm not going to be able to shortcut it. And I'm going to have to take a couple of chances. I ended up going without a paycheck for a couple of years. ⁓ So the ⁓ shit was like, I have a lot of work to do, you know, and being able to turn it around and, and do this at the level that I really wanted at a mastery level, I knew it was going to take a lot of work and a lot of commitment. And that probably meant, you know, not being able to work for the paycheck I had kind of gotten used to. Laura Raether: Sure, absolutely. Yeah. Can you share with us a little bit of a moment or time when you had to like dig into the grit? Like we all kind of talk about tit, sweat and grit. That's what kind of we're here for. Just gritting it out. And I think, you know, our past guests, a lot of them had different definitions of it. So I think it's good for everybody to kind of share, you know, the grit times where you've had to really dig deep. Ilya Lerma: Right. So the the grit for me is ⁓ that's what I'll say is that it's on a daily basis for me. ⁓ You know, I think that Like historically, I think women are amazingly hard workers, right? We're the kinds who are like super focused. ⁓ But I don't think we understand that the grit is carved in the everyday. So for myself, ⁓ you know, I get up at 3.30 every single morning. I meditate, I have a heavy meditation practice. I exercise. very religiously, I'm super committed about my diet and my health more than anything. ⁓ And I think I got that way because, you know, after that period of time where I really needed to give something up, you know, I realized, hey, if I'm going to be a great trial lawyer, I really need to dedicate myself. I gave up TV, I gave up, you know, drinking, I gave up toxic relationships. most of them, some of them I had to find my way out of. ⁓ And it was really about, ⁓ you know, digging in and finding that resiliency to do it again and again. So for me, like it's there wasn't a moment of grit, except that I think those those things are kind of carved in a little bit at a time. Does that make sense? Laura Raether: Yeah, I mean, it totally makes sense. I mean, I think that's wisdom. And we're all three, for those of you that are listening, we're all kind of shaking our heads because it's it's it's great every day in some cases, you know, and it's not like, well, what was us great every day, but it's just part of our kind of DNA of working hard and we're going to do this. We can do it. And I think, you know, that's just interesting perspective that you just further highlighted for me and hopefully people listening that it's not. Ilya Lerma: Right. Laura Raether: One and done. Ilya Lerma: You know, a lot of people talk about motivation. You know, they'll tell me, gosh, you're so motivated or I wish I had your motivation. in my mind, I don't really wait for motivation to come to me. So motivation is like the guest and it's great if she's there and I'm feeling it. But essentially, I try to look at discipline being my home. So I read a lot of like stoic wisdom. I listened to Bruce Lee on repeat, like to try to get myself in that place of just knowing I can't give myself any excuses no matter what I have to show up. And I think a lot of women have that sense, only our thoughts aren't directing that train. A lot of times our thoughts tend to be negative and self-critical. So I think the real shift, because we have the grit, right? Like it's in us, especially if we were... Tracy Laskos: in. Ilya Lerma: you know, we're working moms and, you know, we're juggling all of these different roles. And to kind of hammer that into something that becomes useful instead of ⁓ self-abusive, for me, the mindset came with, this is my discipline. This is really where I want to end up at the end of every day, is I want to feel like I showed up and I left it all on the mat. Sara Frasca: That's it for today's episode of Tits, Wit and Grit, where bold women, big ideas, and a little bit of fearless attitude collide. Tracy Laskos: Absolutely. But Ilya, knowing you personally, having known you for quite some time when I was in Phoenix, I know that you've got this amazing sense of humor. And so I'm curious if you can share with us a little bit how you balance this beautiful wit that you have, as well as this tremendous grit that you just shared with us about. If today's conversation sparked something for you, share it with someone who needs it and make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss what's coming next. Ilya Lerma: ⁓ gosh, I of course think I'm funnier than I think other people appreciate. So I have like a nerdy sense of humor. I'll make literary jokes or like I have this whole arsenal of like dead artist jokes on Van Gogh and Stradivarius and know, so people think it's weird. ⁓ But I also... So in this stage of my life, I have probably the closest girlfriends that I've ever had professionally. And they all happen to be ⁓ female. They all have to happen to be law firm owners. One of them is not a law firm owner. But one of the things we'll do is we have these these little text strings. And so we're constantly in so far as they'll be useful for exchanging the names of great experts or bashing people online for their kind of like questions that were asked last week if they were paying attention. We will also use it to circulate like ADHD memes and, you know, sort of ⁓ survival tips when you have ADHD and ⁓ lots of love bombing with each other. But I absolutely love my text circles ⁓ because that's the humor that, you know, it's just it's. It's funny because that humor is so generational because I have a text stream with my daughters too and the things they send me I don't think are funny and I'm sure the things I send them they don't think are funny. But with a ⁓ mutually situated group of girlfriends that's definitely the way to get through a hard week. Laura Raether: Remember, show up with confidence, trust your wit, and never underestimate the of grit. Yeah. Sara Frasca: That's great. We all have daughters and I think we're all kind of chuckling because there's many times where I'm like, what? You didn't think that was funny? That was brilliant. And they're like, no, that's so dumb. Laura Raether: See you next time. Ilya Lerma: No Yeah, I'm like literally cackling like with my kids and I'll be like, ⁓ my god, they're gonna think this is so funny. And nowadays I'm lucky if they even watch them because they we definitely don't share the same sense of humor. Sara Frasca: So funny. All right. We talked about grit. We talked about wit. Let's talk about tits. And by that, of course, we're asking you to just chime in about your femininity. What is it that you love about being a woman? Ilya Lerma: There's so many things, honestly. I'll follow up my last comment by saying I think that women are amazing at being friends. We're also amazing at being enemies, which is unfortunate. But I also think that women have this incredible ability to unite and create community and friendships that unfortunately are male counterparts really don't have. And I don't know if that's a product of socialization or biology or maybe a combination of both. But I know now ⁓ how thankful I don't have sisters. And my mother has ⁓ two sisters and I always grew up being super envious of their relationship with how close they were and ⁓ just the similar things that they would share and the fun times that they always seem to have. So I was always a little bit jealous. And I never really had that closeness in my friendships. But, you know, as I said, kind of coming into this decade, I really started to see this really special side of women and open myself up more. And I think the more I dropped my own perfectionism, my own self-criticism, my own comparison, I was able to meet women where they are. And I think the same, they received me very openly. And so that I think is probably the biggest asset to being a woman is the opportunity that we have to create and celebrate these relationships with women of all ages, because I have now women who are much younger than me, ⁓ starting with my daughters, but also ⁓ that are just kind of beginning their lives and starting to get married and have babies and at that point. And I love being able to share some of the things that I learned going through those times that felt very lonely to me. ⁓ So I just can't reiterate that part enough. It's just the friendships and the community that women have an opportunity to build. It's, it's, we have it so far over the men. just have no idea. Laura Raether: Don't tell them. Let's not tell them. ⁓ Tracy Laskos: F and O. Ilya Lerma: You wouldn't know how to do it right anyway. You can tell them all day long, they'll still do it wrong. Laura Raether: I want to ask you about something you said about women were friends, but then sometimes were not friends. And so talk to us a little bit about that. Again, I think all of us here, we've probably experienced that, just for maybe people who might be going through it for the first time of like, you think they're on your side and not, and then it's like, ⁓ Ilya Lerma: Yeah, it's so hard ⁓ because, yeah, women can be brutal ⁓ with their criticism and their gossip and their kind of bringing you down, sometimes even well-intentioned, you know, trying to tell you, ⁓ you know, but that seems so scary. Are you sure you're ready for that? And sort of these these negative, undermining comments. And sometimes they are deliberate. you know, and finding that out can be painful because, you know, not all of my friends were lawyers. So they weren't always happy, you know, when I settle a big case or we'd have a good verdict or things would be going well for you. And, you know, it's painful because you, would like to think that your friends are going to celebrate you no matter what. And I did have a lot of the, the sort of frenemies the fake friends. And I think consequently, I learned not to be real open with women until, more recently. But a lot of it was, I think, becoming more intuitive with myself, I think, because I didn't I didn't cultivate self-trust and I didn't cultivate a lot of inner wisdom and I hadn't done a lot of self work in the first. 25 years of my life. So the people I was aligned with were sort of negative and toxic people. And so those were the friendships that I found myself in. What I found was being able to work on myself and ⁓ dig really deep into those places in my life and make myself better. I became the kind of person who could be a good friend. And so consequently, I earned my place with good friends. So a lot of it is, you if you don't have those friendships, a lot of it may have to come down to you and like what kind of self work might you need in order to invite those special people in? Because as much as I used to believe they just weren't out there for me, I was completely wrong. Tracy Laskos: Mm. Laura Raether: Yeah, I think that's great advice. And I think what I always say is like being a friend, it's work. I mean, you don't have to look at it as work, but it is a two way reciprocating, whatever it might be. And sometimes, of course, there's people who are better at communicating than others or whatever it might be. But I think people who just think like, I'm just going to be your friend just because, no. I think it's, yeah. Ilya Lerma: It's so true. Yeah, it's so true. mean, relationships take nurturing and they also take understanding. And my friends know that I'm terrible about texting and calling. I'll go, you know, four to six days without responding to a text. And then I'm catching up on the text string memes after everybody else. They know that about me. But they also know that, you know, if something goes wrong, If you need me, I will be there. I will take whatever flight I need to be. I will pack a bag. I will meet you at the hospital or the jail. Whatever it is, I am there for you. And that kind of, it doesn't happen by accident. You can't treat your friends like a dumping ground every time you need something. You have to learn how to be able to be that for them too. Tracy Laskos: There are certain beliefs that we have about ourselves, Ilya, that we get to meet as we're kind of continuing to evolve, right? ⁓ Whether it's decade over decade or it's just seasons life. ⁓ And I'm kind of curious, you know, what is one of those seasons? What is one of those beliefs that you left behind in a prior version of yourself to truly meet yourself where you are today? I mean, it's inspiring what you've shared so far. And I'd love for some of our listeners to really hear what that process looked like for you, because they might be going through a similar season and it helps hearing from somebody who's done likewise. Ilya Lerma: There was a friend who at a very difficult time in my life, I was going through a divorce and a firm, a partnership breakup. And I was, I literally watched my name getting scraped off of the front door of the firm that I had spent the last 11 years building. And I broke out in tears. I was like, ⁓ you know, I was just so, it was such an affront. You know, I felt like I was being erased from history. And what I, I had this ugly cry, like just bawling. And then what I realized is, wow, if you can be reduced to this because you're having your name scraped off the door, like you really haven't built yourself in the right way, you know, because that's such an external marker of success that it's going to reduce you to tears in your car and the ugly cry. Like that's kind of pitiful. And that was another one of those ⁓ shit moments where I realized, OK, dry your tears, put your big girl pants on. You know, we're going to we're going to recover from this. It's OK. You don't have to have your name on the door to mean something. And it was only a couple of years later that I was sort of losing my my grip on that ⁓ that self-discipline, you know, ⁓ growth, self-growth and self-examination. that I had a friend kind of do the same thing to me. I was, it was complaining, you know, the divorce was almost final. I had started my own practice, but I was complaining about something, I'm sure. And she says, you know, I just, I love you, but I can't feel sorry for you because I need to hear from you. I've already heard all of the things like why life is not treating you fair. And I get it. But I need to now hear what you're going to do about it. And It was kind of like I kind of took myself aback and I at first I got I felt myself getting offended. And then I was like, you know what? She's right. She's absolutely right. I need to do something about this. If I'm not happy, I I need to fix it. And I did. I made trying to ⁓ make myself happy kind of my life's mission. If I didn't like the work that I was doing, I was going to. change the work that I was doing so that I did. And just through a lot of, again, that's sort of that daily grit, right? You don't see it as grit at the time, but it's that daily practice of just getting into it and saying, okay, I'm going to try again today. Like yesterday was a disaster and I'm going to put that in yesterday. Today feels much better and I'm going to reapply myself and just kind of, you know, getting back up and getting back at it to, you know, to try to keep. going and then eventually like there I don't know when it was it was definitely a period of a couple of years of just focusing on myself focusing on ⁓ trial skills you know turning on YouTube University instead of watching some soap opera that or you know some television show that I wanted to watch it was a few years of that where I was able to kind of look back and think wow like I've I really have come a long way. Like I almost don't even recognize that person. And as much as I love her and appreciate her for being part of my journey, I'm so glad that's not who I am anymore. Tracy Laskos: Beautiful. Sara Frasca: that things that struck me is just how I'm picturing you giving yourself a lot of self-talk. I'm, you seem to have it mastered and I sometimes think of like there's a little devil over here and there's a little angel over here and they both can talk to you, but you seem to be good at like turning the volume down on the devil one and saying like, what is it going on over here, angel? Tell me more. Is that true? Ilya Lerma: You could be more right. We talk to ourselves anyway. I realized this when I had a baby and I was home alone and I was nursing her and I was like, man, does everybody's brain go like this? I literally thought I might be in the early stages of some kind of mental illness because of how much chatter. And what I realized is I was so busy working as a lawyer and working so hard, like I didn't notice the thoughts. But once I had time to slow down, I was literally frightened because they were so destructive and they were self-critical and they were very loud and they were judgmental. And we were talking about those women in your life. Some of the most judgmental people I'd ever met in my life were other moms. ⁓ because it was like, ⁓ you breastfeed, ⁓ you work, ⁓ you formula feed. It was like, you couldn't do anything, right? Like everybody had some way of putting you down. And I was plagued with this like indecisiveness and worry and I must be doing it wrong. And look at this person has it all figured out. And I was making myself nuts. And so that's what started a bit of the journey to trying to slow those thoughts down, developing a yoga practice, a meditation practice, and doing a whole lot of weird hippie stuff that ⁓ needed to happen so that I could get control of the thoughts. So I still regularly wrestle with my perfection monster. I regularly wrestle with my own self-criticism, but I'm so much better because now it's like the angel is really big. and the devil is tiny, tiny. So when he says shit to me, he has it in this like cartoon voice now, because I can recognize like this is my inner saboteur. So it's hard to take it seriously. Laura Raether: Ha Sara Frasca: That's really good. I hope young women out there everywhere are getting this message and able to really start to kind of dial those two in. Tracy Laskos: you Mm-hmm. Laura Raether: I think my devil had twins, a twin brother. I tried to knock one off, I think I got another one. But I want to talk about some good shit. I want to talk about either good shit that you, again, you talked a little bit about what you do for yourself, that again, our listeners given, you know, we're all looking for not lightning in a bottle, but just tips of like, ⁓ wow, you know. Ilya Lerma: ⁓ I'm so sorry to hear that. Let's talk about some big shit. Laura Raether: If she can do it, maybe I should try it. I will tell you personally, like I'm a little bit of a hamster on the wheel, self-diagnosed, ADHD, you name it, whatever. And I started doing yoga now it's been 12 years. And for me, like when people heard that they're like, you, you know, and it was life-changing. So I get it. So I'd love for you to share good shit that you do as well as good shit that you do for other women. And it can be professionally, personally, but just, you know, idea sharing. Ilya Lerma: ⁓ I love it! you Honestly, the good shit that I do is talk about this. This is a part of me that I don't really get to share a lot. My daughters would probably tell you they get an earful, but I love talking about self-growth. I love talking about my struggles. I probably overshare much to their dismay as well, but I... you know, if I could share, if I could spare women going through half the stuff that I went through, or even one of the things I went through by sharing my story and to say, I am living proof that you can change your life. And that makes me like super emotional because it really is true. There was a time in my life I did not believe it. You know, so many people, especially as we get older, we're like, well, this is how I've always been. This is how I am. part of my personality. I'm telling you, my personality is different. I'm a different human. I'm a different I'm in I'm a different person in my current marriage than I was in my first marriage. Right. Because I have evolved so much. And if I can talk about anything, it's this and I want to share it. And that's why I have. younger women in my life and this is what we talk about. ⁓ So that part I love. I also love, ⁓ I very down on the ⁓ kind of like the Western ⁓ view of health and I talk about that all the time and I love learning more and I'm like on this peptide journey, you know, and I've gone. ⁓ Tracy Laskos: Mm-hmm. Ilya Lerma: You know, I've done every diet. I've done, you know, keto. I've done, I've been vegan for, I was vegan for six years. I was vegetarian. I've, you know, studied everything and when it all comes down to it, like now I just do me. ⁓ But that came from like talking to people and reading about health and learning about all of this stuff and stepping out of my box and realizing if I define me as the person who always does something, I'm never going to. Laura Raether: you Ilya Lerma: outside of that box. So this is the stuff I'd rather talk about than more than law, more than trials. I love talking about how do you change you? Because it's hard. It's really hard to change yourself. Tracy Laskos: in Absolutely. I love that. mean, like Laura, mean, I yoga for years. I'm actually a yoga instructor ⁓ as well as ⁓ a reiki practitioner. And so hearing you talk about all of these things just really hits home. And I am hopeful and optimistic that the individuals who are listening, Ilya, like really, it really lands on their hearts and feels seen and heard in this space and as they journey in whatever season to whatever next iteration of their chapter. ⁓ invites them to know that they're not journeying alone, that the path is something that they can lock arms and listen in and connect with you and connect with us and know that they've got somebody who's here and walking alongside them. So at the beginning of this, you asked, what is this about? And that's, you hit it. You really did, hit it. Ilya Lerma: ⁓ that's great. That's great. But let me just add, as I hear you say, you know, I hope this and one of the things I love saying, is a ⁓ title of a book from years ago, is that hope is not a strategy. And what I what I want to implant in other people is so much of our struggle, especially women with our perfectionist tendencies and our ability or our ability and overwillingness to take care of everybody before ourselves. It's really ⁓ a deprivation and hope is not a strategy. A strategy is making the decision that I'm not gonna, I may have those negative thoughts about myself, I'm not gonna listen to them. I'm gonna shed some guilt, I'm gonna give myself some grace. I didn't do it perfect today, that's okay. I did some things that, like I look back now. And I'm like, wow, that was a terrible thing to do to a you know, which is hard because like at the time I really wanted to do everything right. wanted to, well, of course, you know, my kids will tell you I was not a perfect parent. And I'm at a stage now where it's not that I'm letting myself off the hook, you know, I think it's important that I recognize the things that I did wrong and acknowledge that in their ability to, you know, kind of heal and grow from their past. But Also, like I don't hold it over my head anymore. And that came, everybody asks like, how do you do it? And what I'll say is it's a choice. It's a choice to self abuse. It's a choice to decide you're going to put the stick down. So when you're in yoga practice, put the stick down, you know, like you may not be able to get to the love part and the forgiveness part and the letting go of guilt, but we can all put the stick down. And that's a big start. Sara Frasca: Yeah. Laura Raether: Yeah. Or as I would say to my daughters, I know I was the worst mom ever. And they're like, mom, you weren't. I'm like, well, kind of that's sometimes how you make me feel. So I did the best I could. you know, but I, as a mom, I agree with what you're saying. Like, you know, sometimes never good enough is never good enough. So let's just say it. It's, you know. Ilya Lerma: Right. But but at the same time, everything that you did came from a place of love. didn't you didn't desire to hurt them. You didn't intend it. It's not like you set out with this agenda to mess them up. This is part of the journey. And so there is like there was a great peace that I had in reconciling the feelings that I had towards my parents, who are wonderful people in a lot of ways. And they were terrific parents. They were awful in others. They modeled horrible relationships for me, which unfortunately kind of dictated the first few decades of my life. But being able to see that they didn't do it on purpose, right? Like we're all sort of served a bag of dysfunction that we have to sift through and realizing that I can still love them anyway and not judge them. Why can't I do the same for myself? Right? Why can't I give that piece of, yeah, it was... Maybe it wasn't perfect, it was messy and ugly sometimes, but man, I did a really good job in a lot of other ways. And that's the part that I, that's what I try to focus on the angel and listen to the things, because it's really hard to raise kids. Sara Frasca: I'm raising five teenagers right now, so I hope they'll listen to this episode and you know, I hope they're listening out there and realizing like there's no instruction manual. You just make it up on the fly. Yeah. Ilya Lerma: of It's so true. Yeah, it's so true. It's hard. It's hard. That's definitely the hardest job. And it's a thankless job. And you won't know how great you were at it until they have kids. And like me, I call my mom like on a weekly basis and tell her like, man, you were such a great mom. I didn't realize how hard this was. Laura Raether: you Right, totally. Ilya Lerma: Five team leaders, Sarah. That's hard, Sarah. Wow. Sara Frasca: Nice. Yes, yes the other piece of your story that really resonated is that I grew up in a family of like super tight-knit like ⁓ You know just like the perfect TV family and my parents loved each other and I had and So that's what I knew and then I walked into my first marriage didn't know myself very well and I ended up divorced and so I Still don't know if I have fully put the stick down and fully forgiven myself for not knowing myself enough and getting divorced and having kids and getting married, having kids and then getting divorced. Like I just grapple with that still of like, I am a perfectionist like you. So like I have a blemish on my record and that bothers me. Anyway, so. Ilya Lerma: We need to have like a ceremony out in the desert for you to let that shit go. Yeah, we need to... ⁓ Sara Frasca: I'm totally not Burning Man or something, but I some sing. Laura Raether: Yeah. See, that's gonna be our next podcast. We're gonna do Tits, and Grit at Night or In the Dark. Sara Frasca: Yeah. Ilya Lerma: I love it. I'm there. I'm there. Yeah, I mean, but it comes down to it. make it more complicated than it is. It's a choice. It's a choice to say, you know what? Maybe I don't deserve it. Maybe it makes me less than perfect. You know, I don't know, but I'm going to choose it. I'm going choose to put the stick down. I'm just not going to beat myself up over that anymore. You know, it feels good. It does. Laura Raether: I love that. Tracy Laskos: Well, and what it also does, Ilya, is gives others permissions to do likewise, right? If you demonstrate that, they then say, ⁓ she did it and is okay. That means I can do that, right? Yep. Ilya Lerma: Yes! 100 % yes. Laura Raether: Can I put the stick down and pick up a martini? In moderation, of course, in moderation. I'm not advocating that, but I'm like, okay. I like that. All right, good. That's awesome. That's awesome. Ilya Lerma: Yeah, I'm for it. No, I'm for it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Tracy Laskos: That's funny. So, Ilya we've talked about shit. We've talked about good shit. What about no shit? Was there a moment in your life where you were like, no shits, ⁓ more? Ilya Lerma: God, am, yes, there was. And I'm gonna talk about something I rarely talk about. I was in a relationship actually before this marriage that became physically abusive. And it was so, you know, to have done so much self work and so much healing and so much like to get over my past and then to find myself here, you can imagine was like, very, very damaging to my spirit and my self-worth. And I woke up in the hospital ⁓ with four broken ribs. And he was in the room with me and I remember he was crying. And I thought, no, I'm not doing this anymore. am, the next time, there may not be a next time because I may end up dead, ⁓ but. This is it. Like no more shit, no more bullshit for me. Like I can't talk about loving myself and stay in this relationship because that's the biggest act of self denial ever. And so that was my moment and it took some doing because he was ⁓ very toxic and embedded in deep parts of my life, but I got him out. you know, and every time he would do what would get us back together, I was like, no, it's you or my self respect really is what it came down to. And I just said, absolutely not. And I told him, don't talk about getting back together. Don't bring it up. Don't get nostalgic. It's not going to happen if you do. Like, because he was in my house during COVID. So trying to get him out was ⁓ very difficult. And I told him that he could stay until it was, you know, until he could find a place where he could, he could land. But I should have put him in prison, candidly, in retrospect. But what I needed was to just be done. And I was, I was done. So being able to do it at that level makes doing it at a smaller level much easier. So now I'm much better at saying no when I mean no. I'm not. interested in trying to please people all of the time and I'm more about doing things for myself. And I used to think that selfishness was like such a bad thing. But what I realized is if I'm not living to my fullest, how is that serving anything? Right. If I'm self-depriving and I'm giving everything to everybody else, how does that make me? like the best version of myself when I die. And that really hit me. So now I, there's a lot of things that I do and I say it's about me, but it's, it's really about me because this is the best place that I can give from. So if I'm feeling full, I, I'm not, you know, feeling like I'm being taken from that. allows me to deliver the best version of myself to my clients, my, you know, the folks that I consult with, to you ladies, you know, I get to show up the best version of myself and how is that not serving like what the world needs right now. Laura Raether: Right. Well, and you have daughters as well, examples for them. Tracy Laskos: Absolutely. Ilya Lerma: Exactly. I I thought about this. This used to be a thing that the moms would say when I had young babies and they were like, ⁓ I live for my kids. I live for my kids. And I started to say it. And then I was like, you know, when my kids have kids, I don't want them to stop being a person because they have kids. So why do I have to stop being or why should I like being a mom was? Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Ilya Lerma: the greatest thing ever. And I love it. And I almost wish I'd had two more kids because it was like it went by so fast. I know it's hard to imagine Sarah, but it does go by. There will be a time you look back on it you're like, can't, it by so fast. But the truth is like, I realized if they were ever going to learn how to forgive, how to not judge themselves, how to not ⁓ people please, how to set some healthy boundaries. Sara Frasca: you Laura Raether: you Ilya Lerma: they weren't going to learn it if I just gave it lip service. So they had to see me draw lines in the sand and get rid of toxic people and expel the, you know, the abusive boyfriend. I don't even know if they even knew about the physical abuse, but they knew that he was toxic in other ways. So seeing me make that, make those commitments and stick to them, that's the best example. I could possibly give. So yeah, they might think I messed them up, but in their 40s they'll realize my mom was a badass. Sara Frasca: Yeah. Laura Raether: There's therapy. Ilya Lerma: Yeah, that's right. And martinis. There's martini. Sara Frasca: I mean, Ilya, that is an incredibly powerful story. mean, to say that I have goosebumps from the top to the bottom is an understatement. I mean, thank you for sharing. Thank you for being so courageous. And ⁓ maybe we give you a quick round of applause because I think that is unbelievable. ⁓ Laura Raether: That's heavy shit. Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Ilya Lerma: Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that was a tough one because I certainly was always like, man ever touches me, I'm going to, you know, and then the universe is like here, OK, you know, be big with your mouth, go solve this. And it was tough. was tough. It was was harder than ending my marriage candidly. It was really brutal. But thank you for that. Laura Raether: Yeah. Tracy Laskos: Mm-hmm. Laura Raether: for Tracy Laskos: Yeah. Sara Frasca: Thank you for sharing. know there's someone out there that's going through something like that. And so I think the pearl of wisdom is put your mask on first. Like you've got to protect yourself and you've got to have enough awareness that you make choices on a daily micro basis that will help you make those baby steps out of whatever bad situation you're in. Everything, there are choice paths and you're in control. Tracy Laskos: Mm. Ilya Lerma: Well, and even if you aren't, let me just add this, because I think this is something that that a lot of women probably need to hear. And I probably can't say it enough. We also need to be able to ask for help because I felt so isolated, so alone. mean, I had people who were close to me and had no idea, had no idea because I didn't share it. And those choices to put down the stick eventually should become a choice to ask for help. Sara Frasca: Yes, please. Ilya Lerma: because I know I like helping other people. I want to give that opportunity to other people to help me and I'm worth helping. The message that we send is that I'm not worth helping so I don't need to ask for help so I will be, you know, the survivalist, the lone survivalist. And what I've learned in my current marriage is the ability to make those little choices. Like I let him, open doors for me. You know, I let him treat me like a a gentleman or treat him be the gentleman and treat me like a lady. And it sounds funny, but there was a time in my life I was like, no, no, I got it. Like, I'll pick up the check. I'm on a date and I'm always doing. And what I realized is it was such a deprivation, right, to them. And fortunately, I have a very strong, you know, ⁓ male spouse and he's he can be Laura Raether: Thank Ilya Lerma: kind of dominant and he's like, no, I'm going to do this for you. So you remind me that sometimes it's okay. But especially in the times of when I'm so used to clamping down and saying, no, I'm going to figure this out. That's a choice to to say, you know what? I don't have to choose to do that. I can call one of my girlfriends or, you know, I can reach out to Brad and tell him, hey, this is what I'm feeling. And that I think those two things will go so far for most women the sooner you learn how to do them. Put down the stick and ask for help. It's so simple and yet we make it so hard. Tracy Laskos: And let go of the shame, right? There's a narrative that we tell ourselves that we're shameful of what has happened to us because we allowed it, right? So as you're putting down that stick, put down shame with it and invite help in because it just allows others to love you in the way that they're just craving to do so. Ilya Lerma: Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Somebody asked me once what I thought shame did. And I ended up on the side of I think shame is almost useless, almost a useless emotion. And yet guilt and shame together can be completely useless because they only serve to make us feel bad about ourselves. Right. There's nothing. The only good that I've been able to come up with. And this is why we should pay attention when we have it, is did we do something or we didn't act our best that we should learn from, right? Like if we ⁓ hurt somebody else or left somebody stranded or whatever that may be that we carry some guilt or shame over, then continuing to live in that, like our kids, Laura. Like, okay, we messed up our kids. Like, am I going to keep feeling guilt and shame over that? I could, but it's not serving anything anymore. It's not like I can go back and fix that. So it's time to let that go. So when I realized that like guilt and shame were almost totally useless, I was like, I need to get rid of some of it because I don't want to carry this around for the rest of my life. Laura Raether: Yeah. That's a lot of baggage. Ilya Lerma: Yeah, it is. Sara Frasca: One thing I want to mention, because I think you would be an excellent attendee slash presenter slash helper, is that we serve a lot of industries, but one of the niches is the law industry. And we have a program called Empowering Women in Law, and we're doing a retreat this November in Austin. So we got to get you the dates. If you're available, I think you should come, because I think there's going to be a good kind of outpouring of people, especially in the law industry, I think women have not had their moment yet. That's my opinion. ⁓ So I just wanted to put it on your. Ilya Lerma: I love it. Yeah, no, I'm totally I know I have a trial in November, but you know, like they get moved all the time. They get moved. You know, I never I just never know what my schedule is going to look like. Laura Raether: trial. Are we really? Sara Frasca: Yeah, that's true. All don't worry. You don't have to commit at this moment. ⁓ But I am, because we're kind of coming up to the time that we have left with you, if we can put you into a little bit of a rapid fire of our questions, we like to ask all of our guests a few things. ⁓ Any favorite book that you feel like helped shape you? Laura Raether: Yeah. Ilya Lerma: The Mastery of Love by ⁓ Don Miguel Ruiz. It's really short, but ⁓ it will help any reader kind of take a different perspective of love and self-love. It's excellent. Yeah. Sara Frasca: Mmm. Great. Okay, what about a mantra or a phrase that you like to live by? Ilya Lerma: This is going to sound so dumb. I say in my head, I have written on my board, I got that dog. So what that says to me, because I used to in my conversations with my daughters, their thoughts, you know, like running around like loose dogs. And what I told them is you can be in that park and let the dogs run around or you can do the training so that eventually they sit. Right. They sit. If that dog is worrying about money or worrying about my boyfriend or worrying about this and worrying about that. So however many years it takes, that dog is going to sit at my feet. Like, you know, if it's if it's the guilt and this the worry about the past, Laura, no, not today. You come sit. You come sit by me. I'm not I'm not chasing after those dogs anymore. So I have I got that dog written on my board. Laura Raether: like it. And do you have a dog? Sara Frasca: Great! Ilya Lerma: No! It's just the mental dogs. I have a cat. Laura Raether: Awesome. Ilya Lerma: But that dog is like whatever it is, like the worry, the fear. You know, I looked at one of the financials on one of my cases today and it was like, it was multiples and multiples of seven figures. And I, know, my brain just went, went and then, you know, it was just kind of like, no, you got that dog too. You got that dog too, sit. Laura Raether: Yep, love it, that's awesome, that's great, fantastic. Sara Frasca: love you. Tracy Laskos: Ilya, what's one thing few people know about you? Ilya Lerma: that I am a, well, guess maybe people know that too. ⁓ I was going to say that I am a Bruce Lee fanatic. ⁓ Not his movies and that kind of thing, but his philosophy of life. And I think most people wouldn't know that I'm like an uber nerd when it comes to like reading like philosophers and ⁓ I study a lot of really nerdy stuff. ⁓ Some of it is for work, but I think like the Bruce Lee and the Stoics, ⁓ I think most people would never guess that about me. But they wouldn't know. Maybe they would guess it. Laura Raether: That's cool. Okay, last question. Mocktail, since it's almost, it's way past happy hour for me. I don't even know what time zone I'm on. But cocktail or mocktail of choice these days? Ilya Lerma: ⁓ gosh. I have to admit I'm a fan of the painkiller because it's usually true to its name. Yeah. Laura Raether: Okay, orange juice with orange juice. Do you have orange juice? put orange juice in yours? Ilya Lerma: I don't even know how it's made. It's like a little bit of like, I don't know. I don't even know how it's made. I'll be candid. have one of those little, I don't drink very much. I really don't, because I just can't handle it. So two drinks is like my top maybe a couple times a month. But I have one of those like curing for alcoholics with it have the little kit, right? And so that's the one I default to. Yeah. Laura Raether: Yeah. All right, painkiller, love it. That's awesome, great. Ilya Lerma: Yeah. Well, thank you, ladies. This is a lot of fun. Sara Frasca: Hmm. You... Laura Raether: Thank you and thank you for being so open and honest and words of wisdom and I am gonna put down that stick and I am gonna go get a martini. Yeah. Ilya Lerma: Good for you! Go do it! Sara Frasca: Me too. I said me too and me too. Ilya, you're amazing. I mean, I'm so excited that you are in our circle or clan or whatever you want to call it. But yeah, tribe. I'm just really inspired by what you've done and I'm just very grateful you joined us. So. Laura Raether: May too. tribe. Ilya Lerma: Oh, thank you. Thank you. So, oh yeah, yeah, do that. Do that. Yeah, I love being part of the tribe. Thank you for having me. It was super fun. So yeah, anytime. Anytime. This was awesome. Laura Raether: And we'll send you some swag. Sara Frasca: You Laura Raether: Thank you.