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The Dangote Refinery IPO—How Can E. Africans Invest · The Mwango Capital Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the space and thank you for making time to join us.
0:03
SPEAKER_02: We're having an exciting conversation that has sparked quite a bit of conversation
0:08
SPEAKER_02: in Kenya's investment circle.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: We are talking about the Dangote Refinery IPO and more specifically,
0:16
SPEAKER_02: how can East Africans invest in this?
0:19
SPEAKER_02: So if you've been following the conversation,
0:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you've probably come across terms like global depository receipts,
0:26
SPEAKER_02: cross-border investing, underlying shares, currency exposure.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure you've seen a number of jokes in me.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: Flying around with everybody saying that they're looking to be shareholders
0:38
SPEAKER_02: and invest in Dagoche's company.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: So today we're looking to unpack all of this,
0:43
SPEAKER_02: especially if you're wondering what does this mean for me as an investor.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: So we're going beyond the headlines and we're looking at what it means
0:52
SPEAKER_02: to have access to a major Nigerian industrial company
0:56
SPEAKER_02: through Kenya's capital market.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: And some of the important questions we will be asking today is what exactly is a GDR?
1:03
SPEAKER_02: What are you buying?
1:04
SPEAKER_02: How does this offer work?
1:06
SPEAKER_02: What is the cost of participation?
1:08
SPEAKER_02: And for you as an investor, what rights and protections do you have?
1:13
SPEAKER_02: And also,
1:14
SPEAKER_02: just zooming out a little bit,
1:16
SPEAKER_02: we are looking at,
1:17
SPEAKER_02: could this be a step toward making it easier for Africans to invest
1:22
SPEAKER_02: across African markets?
1:24
SPEAKER_02: And more specifically, or even more locally, what does this mean strategically?
1:28
SPEAKER_02: And to help us unpack and make sense of all of this, we are joined by two lovely natives.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Kazemiwarui,
1:46
SPEAKER_02: who is the head of investment banking,
1:49
SPEAKER_02: as well as Divine Onumese, who is a research analyst at Renaissance Capital Africa.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: What you can expect us to talk about is...
1:59
SPEAKER_02: A deep dive into the Dangote Refinery IPO.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: And we're focusing on how East African investors can participate
2:06
SPEAKER_02: through global depository receipts, which you'll hear us commonly refer to as GDRs.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: So when looking at how do these GDRs work, what is the investment process?
2:18
SPEAKER_02: What is the offer structure?
2:20
SPEAKER_02: What does the pricing look like both here in Kenya and Nigeria?
2:24
SPEAKER_02: And what are investor rights?
2:26
SPEAKER_02: Associated costs and risks,
2:28
SPEAKER_02: and also largely the opportunities for cross-border investment in African capital.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for joining us.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: At this juncture,
2:36
SPEAKER_02: I will let our speakers of the day introduce themselves, starting with you, Karimi.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: We're delighted to have you here.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: Please tell us about yourself and let's get the conversation started.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Nicole.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: My name is Karimi Warui.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: I head investment banking at Renethan's Capital.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: Mainly in the East African and Central African region.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Uranus Capital has been around in the Kenyan markets since 2007.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: So we've been around for a while.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: I've been involved in most of the regional capital markets transaction.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: And therefore we've been able to really participate.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Personally, I've been in the investment banking space for about 17 years now.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Been part of some very exciting transactions in my career.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: I led the Safaricom IPO.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: I led the first reverse takeover in Eastern Central Africa,
3:24
SPEAKER_00: which was the I&M,
3:25
SPEAKER_00: which led to the I&M holdings listing and a couple of others,
3:29
SPEAKER_00: bonds across the region, the first WHO certified IPO in Uganda.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's an exciting time to always see new instruments and new transactions coming
3:39
SPEAKER_00: to the market.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for taking your time to join us as we look to unpack IPO and the GGR specifically.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Nicole.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: Divine, over to you.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: Please tell us about yourself and what you do at Renaissance Capital.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Nicole.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: My name is Divine Ulumesi.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: I am from Renaissance Capital, Africa, Lagos, Nigeria.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: And I currently cover the oil and gas sector.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: And within my coverage companies, Settlard, Aradel, Uwando, and now Dangote Refinery.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: I've been doing this for about three years.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Divine.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: Now, Karimi,
4:22
SPEAKER_02: kindly tell us about the firm's involvement in bringing
4:26
SPEAKER_02: the Dangote Refinery GDR offer to the Kenyan markets.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: If we remember when Dangote started speaking about doing the African IPO,
4:35
SPEAKER_00: I think first off to begin that this whole discussion and the offer is specifically
4:39
SPEAKER_00: on the Nigerian refinery.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: So this does not touch on the Lamu refinery that is set
4:45
SPEAKER_00: for discussion later once it's up and running an operation.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: So if we take a step back,
4:51
SPEAKER_00: I think he had been discussing about this for about a year and he had really wanted
4:55
SPEAKER_00: to see the IPU happening in at least 10 African countries.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: We had hosted him at the NSC and one of the things that he said was the reason
5:05
SPEAKER_00: or why he really wanted to do this is because almost all his companies that are
5:09
SPEAKER_00: under the group are listed somewhere or other.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: And he has seen how much it has helped people grow.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: More importantly, it's to be able to bring solutions to Africa for Africa itself.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: When you think about us having to export our crude oil and then only for us to have
5:26
SPEAKER_00: to import at much higher prices,
5:28
SPEAKER_00: it's only fair that if we are able to mine some of it,
5:31
SPEAKER_00: that we're able to refine it here and get it at much friendlier prices.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: So that is the motivation behind this.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: And at that time, the company was then considering being at least 10 African countries.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, until the rubber meets the road, some of these things are never tested.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: And when you hit the road,
5:51
SPEAKER_00: if you pick the top 10 countries in Africa,
5:55
SPEAKER_00: we are talking about 10 different jurisdictions.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about at least 20 minimum regulators.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: So one being like the equivalent of the CMA and then one being the exchange.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: In some cases, it may involve a central bank.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: So it just became really onerous for the company as itself to do one IPO and
6:14
SPEAKER_00: then cross-listing all the countries it was intending.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: And Dangote requested that if any of the countries or regions can find A way
6:22
SPEAKER_00: to make this IPO available to the people or investors within that region,
6:26
SPEAKER_00: they'll be more than happy to support it.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: And so that's where the discussion we started.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: And we had very close discussions through Renaissance Capital Africa in Lagoon.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Very good relations with Dangote themselves as a company,
6:43
SPEAKER_00: as well as we had been speaking to the NAC here to see how we can bring this
6:48
SPEAKER_00: into being.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: And we've had the GDR,
6:51
SPEAKER_00: the Global Depository Receipts Policy Guidance Notes that have been issued by
6:56
SPEAKER_00: the CMA since 2017, but we have never had a GDR.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: And so it was, I believe, something that was not automatic or many people did not think of it.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: But we talked to the company and to the NFE and to CMA and the SEC about this.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: And we had first the company buy-in.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Once we had the company buy-in,
7:16
SPEAKER_00: we got the Nigerian regulatory buy-in and then got the Kenyan regulatory buy-in.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: So that's partly the reason why also by the time this went to market,
7:27
SPEAKER_00: it had eaten up about one and a half, almost two weeks of the IPO off a period.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: But it's been quite intense.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: We've had to learn everything from the ground up,
7:37
SPEAKER_00: including the regulators,
7:38
SPEAKER_00: because remember,
7:39
SPEAKER_00: The issue of policy guidance goes,
7:41
SPEAKER_00: it can only be tested when you have an actual transaction.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: And so with the success of these GDRs,
7:46
SPEAKER_00: which we believe we'll have, this becomes the first inward GDR in Africa.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: We have other GDRs out of Ghana,
7:55
SPEAKER_00: Nigeria, Egypt, Jobag,
7:58
SPEAKER_00: but most of these are outer GDRs that go out to other markets and most
8:02
SPEAKER_00: of those GDRs are listed in Europe.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: But this is the first inward GDRs.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: And within the African continent,
8:10
SPEAKER_00: no, that could be wrong because I believe there is from Nigeria to Joe Bag as well.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: So it's been quite a learning experience for all of us.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: It's been quite exciting.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: I really have to commend our CMA and NFE for getting us through to this point.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: We believe is the best solutions for investors who are interested.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: And therefore we strongly stand behind this program.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: There's a word that you've mentioned there and I really want us to define what exactly it is.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: You've been saying GDR, a global depository receipt.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: So please kindly explain to us what a GDR is and how it works.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: A GDR is a listed security that represents underlying share of a foreign company.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: So for example, in this case, the GDRs in Kenya are going to represent the underlying shares.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a I'm speaking to an investment forum,
9:05
SPEAKER_00: so most of us understand when I say it is a derivative, so an equity, a share.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: So because the IPO in its form as an IPO is not approved or even applied for
9:17
SPEAKER_00: in Kenya, the GDR is what represents those shares.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: So in this particular case, we have one global depository receipt.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: In the case of equity, if it's against a bond, it's called a global depository note.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: So this receipt is issued, one receipt will be issued against one underlying share.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: So the shares will be allotted and held in a custodial account in Nigeria.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: And then against those shares, we will issue one GDR for every one share held.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: So for example,
9:49
SPEAKER_00: you apply and let's say you get allotment for 1,000 shares,
9:53
SPEAKER_00: in which case it means you will then have 1,000 GDRs in Kenya.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: And those GDRs will then be Held in your CDS account and you'll be able to trade
10:03
SPEAKER_00: on them as you would in any other normal security.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: The GDR program targets 39 billion ten years shilling with each GDR price that is
10:14
SPEAKER_02: to three shillings at 50 cents and representing one underlying share.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: So as you've mentioned, one for one.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: What can you walk us through?
10:23
SPEAKER_02: How was this price determined?
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Nicole,
10:26
SPEAKER_00: for that question,
10:27
SPEAKER_00: because I have seen a lot of information that has gone through the media.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes,
10:33
SPEAKER_00: especially when it goes into people,
10:36
SPEAKER_00: blogs and vlogs in ETC, you can't catch everyone.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: So one share in Nigeria is going for 525 naira.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: When you convert one for one for that naira for 525,
10:47
SPEAKER_00: that comes to around 51 shillings and 60 cents.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: So the difference between buying the share directly in Nigeria and
11:01
SPEAKER_00: the share here is roughly about two shillings.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: Now, how does these two shillings arrived at?
11:07
SPEAKER_00: These two shillings was arrived at to make sure that the platform can pay
11:12
SPEAKER_00: and be supported by the required party as per regulation.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: So these two shillings per share is ensuring that we have a custodian in Nigeria, we have a
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Brokerage account in Nigeria.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: In Kenya, everyone can use their normal brokers.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: That we have a registrar who's able to hold a register of the GDRs.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: That we also have a legal firm that can confirm
11:40
SPEAKER_00: that everything that's being done is legal and correct.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: Then in addition to all those costs, we have PR, marketing.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: Part of that cost is also to ensure that we're able to inform people Investors
11:54
SPEAKER_00: of any changes that happen,
11:55
SPEAKER_00: whenever you lease a share, there's always regulatory costs.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: So those costs to the CMA, to the NSE, to the CDSE are all included in that two shilling.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Now, beyond that,
12:08
SPEAKER_00: what Rencap did is I had a lot of discussions with banks and we were able to
12:13
SPEAKER_00: then take a call on where we see the Fx difference coming in December,
12:19
SPEAKER_00: at which time we expect to be listing the GDRs.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: And so then Rencap has taken a risk on that to hedge part of that risk,
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Fx risk,
12:29
SPEAKER_00: so that the price that the investor sees today is the price that the investor has.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: It's a final price.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And that is the price that will be on the NSE, on the date of listing.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, once we list, that takes a life of its own.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: But this was to ensure that there is no additional cost to investors.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and this also, that same cost also then gets to pay all the placement agents too.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: All the brokers and all the investment banks that participate
12:57
SPEAKER_00: in placing this will be paid out of this.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: So I think two shillings for what an investor is getting,
13:04
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a fair premium,
13:06
SPEAKER_00: especially because if you had to do this on your own,
13:10
SPEAKER_00: I think it would cost you a lot more than two shillings more per share.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: Now let's get practical.
13:15
SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of our listeners are wondering, how do I invest?
13:19
SPEAKER_02: So suppose I'm a Kenyan investor with a thousand bob and I want to participate in the offer.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: What exactly do I need to do?
13:26
SPEAKER_02: Walk us through the process from opening a CDSP account to applying,
13:32
SPEAKER_02: making payment, receiving the GDRs.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: And also in this, please tell us what are the minimum investment requirements.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Nicole.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: So the minimum investment requirements as of now is 535 shillings.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: That's for a minimum of 10 GDRs.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: And with that, there are two avenues to invest.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: So you can choose to invest through your regular broker
13:56
SPEAKER_00: or your regular investment bank,
13:59
SPEAKER_00: or you can choose to invest through the ZD platform, the ZD Trader platform.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: So the GGRs are available on the ZD Trader platform.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: If you do invest on the ZD Trader platform, you do not need to open a CDF account.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: And that will,
14:12
SPEAKER_00: the back end of it,
14:13
SPEAKER_00: we will ensure that at the end of the day,
14:15
SPEAKER_00: together with the ZD team,
14:17
SPEAKER_00: that every investor who's applied through that platform gets what they got allotted
14:21
SPEAKER_00: for.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: If you invest in the regular way,
14:24
SPEAKER_00: so we have a portal, which we can share the link at the end of this conversation.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: We have a portal and once you log on,
14:31
SPEAKER_00: that portal will give you everything and any information you require.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: You'll find the GDR IMs plus the two supplemental IMs,
14:40
SPEAKER_00: which were issued to show the decrease in the minimum and also to show
14:44
SPEAKER_00: the offer extension.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: It then also links to the underlying IPO IM.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: It links into the Dangote IPO site,
14:53
SPEAKER_00: which then also allows you just to see what's happening in that market.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: It also has a set of FAQs.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: From what we got in feedback from market, we keep updating that on the portal.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Now, the beauty with the portal is once you choose to invest,
15:08
SPEAKER_00: if you don't have a CDS account, you can apply for it online.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: You just need to provide the details,
15:13
SPEAKER_00: upload your ID KYC requirements and choose who you'd like to be your broker.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: And that will be linked in the backend.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: And then after,
15:22
SPEAKER_00: I believe within a day,
15:23
SPEAKER_00: you should be able to complete the application once the account is open.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: If you already have an existing CDS account,
15:30
SPEAKER_00: you just need to log on the same portal, put in your CDS account.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: It will populate your information,
15:35
SPEAKER_00: put in how much you want and click to show that you're making payment.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Choose your mode of payment.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: If you're making M-Pesa, it'll give you the details of how to make that.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: If you choose to do a bank transfer, it'll give you the details of how to do that as well.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: And so once you click that you have submitted,
15:53
SPEAKER_00: then all your information is submitted to the registrar directly with a copy
15:57
SPEAKER_00: to your broker so that your broker is aware of who has paid under their name.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: And the beauty is it's an e-offer.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: And so the portal is open 24-7.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: It's not like days of Safari come when you know it's only working hours.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: So anytime you have some extra time, you're able to log on to the portal.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: We have also set up a call center,
16:20
SPEAKER_00: but I believe this call center runs until about 8 p.m.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: that you can call if you need assistance and or you can send an email to
16:28
SPEAKER_00: the call center that they're able to respond to you if you have any queries.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: So I think we're trying to be quite agile.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Today's the one edge.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: We need to support the tech that's there.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: Divine, this is for you.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: So beyond the GDR structure, let's talk about the underlying business.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: What did prospective investors understand about Dangote's refineries operation and
16:55
SPEAKER_02: the position within Nigeria's downstream industry and
16:59
SPEAKER_02: the wider African energy market?
17:02
SPEAKER_01: The simplest way to understand Tanguti Refinery is it's a very large
17:08
SPEAKER_01: and modern plant that is sitting in the right place to process Nigeria's crude into
17:15
SPEAKER_01: the folds that the market actually buys.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: And it's designed to run at about 700,000 barrels per day.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: And with an announcing complexity index of 11.5,
17:28
SPEAKER_01: which means that it's able to turn every barrel of crude into high value products.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: In terms of position in Nigeria, Nigeria is one of Africa's largest oil producer.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: And what we've seen is that for decades,
17:44
SPEAKER_01: we've been exporting crude and also importing most
17:48
SPEAKER_01: of those unrefined products like diesel.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Petrol and jet fuel.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: So what the refinery does is that it changes that dynamic.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Now, so what we've seen at least from 2025 to date is that the refinery has helped
18:04
SPEAKER_01: to reduce Nigeria's reliance on imported products.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: And due to the refinery, it's able to meet the needs of Nigeria, domestic needs.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: And then in terms of pricing,
18:16
SPEAKER_01: it's actually priced at the import parity,
18:18
SPEAKER_01: meaning that it's priced at the international benchmark plus a freight and
18:22
SPEAKER_01: a premium.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: So what it ends at home is tied to the global prices instead of being priced locally.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: And then also to mention that according to the company Redo Refinery,
18:33
SPEAKER_01: In June or July, it was one of the largest suppliers of jet fuel.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Basically,
18:38
SPEAKER_01: the refinery has been positioned to meet the demands of Nigeria and also
18:44
SPEAKER_01: the excesses are being exported to other African countries.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: What do the company's recently published operational financial performance
18:53
SPEAKER_02: and profitability results through?
18:55
SPEAKER_02: And what indicators should investors examine when they are assessing the performance
19:01
SPEAKER_02: of Dangote Refinery?
19:03
SPEAKER_01: From what we've seen, from the numbers that we saw, it's just the financials.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: In terms of operational numbers,
19:11
SPEAKER_01: like the utilization rates and the volumes that were produced,
19:15
SPEAKER_01: we don't have that information yet.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: So we're waiting for nine months or unaudited numbers to come.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: But beyond that,
19:22
SPEAKER_01: like looking at what The numbers that we saw, revenues increased significantly.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: When you compare it year-on-year from 9 months, 2025 to 2026, there's a huge jump.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: And then we've also seen EBITDA of around 5.5 billion and also a net income at 4.7 billion.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Which, like I said, when you compare it to the previous period, the jump is significant.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: And just to highlight that 2025 was like a ramp up period, right?
19:51
SPEAKER_01: The volumes were lower, utilization rates were lower.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: The jump that we've seen now from the nine months results is as a result of
19:59
SPEAKER_01: the refinery is now in a steady state.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Utilization rates are up.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: The refinery reported utilization rates as high as 101% during the year.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: Volumes are improving.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: And then in terms of what indicators investors should look at is you're looking
20:15
SPEAKER_01: at margins, right?
20:16
SPEAKER_01: We also understand that 2021.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Beyond the IPO subscription price,
20:45
SPEAKER_02: What business fundamentals and valuation considerations should investors assess?
20:51
SPEAKER_01: The offer price tells you what you pay.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't tell you where you're buying.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: They're just like other things, right?
20:58
SPEAKER_01: And so the first thing is, what does the business earn to a full cycle?
21:02
SPEAKER_01: You're not just looking at this year.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Like I mentioned, this year has been a non-normal year, right?
21:08
SPEAKER_01: And so we're looking at 2027, 2028.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: We expect like some moderation, given that 2026 was very exceptional.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: And the management already has given guidance for those refining margins
21:23
SPEAKER_01: that we should expect to see.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: According to management,
21:27
SPEAKER_01: in bare case, we should expect margins to be around $22 to $23 per barrel.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: And then also a thing to look out for also is the expansion part.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: A lot of cash is going to go into that expansion and the cost is actually around 14 billion.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: There's going to be a lot of capital expenditures from now to the commissioning of
21:51
SPEAKER_01: the second phase of the refinery, right?
21:54
SPEAKER_01: And then also looking at how does the valuation compare?
21:58
SPEAKER_01: We've tried to compare the refinery to compared and then we've seen that it trades
22:04
SPEAKER_01: at a premium.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: It's at a premium to other refineries because it's in lower costs and refinery
22:10
SPEAKER_01: and also it's newer.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: All these things are fundamentals that investors should access basically.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: So what are the key opportunities and business specific risks that are associated
22:22
SPEAKER_02: with investing in the company?
22:24
SPEAKER_01: I think the first to be positioning the refinery is at a location where it's at
22:31
SPEAKER_01: the Atlantic basin, right?
22:32
SPEAKER_01: So in terms of it able to get crude easily into the refinery and also cost
22:38
SPEAKER_01: and scale, operating costs are low.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: Utilization has been high.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: And then also something to look at the balance sheet,
22:46
SPEAKER_01: which like we've seen has gone from a net debt to a net cash position
22:51
SPEAKER_01: in just nine months.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: And then also the growth part,
22:55
SPEAKER_01: like I mentioned on phase two,
22:57
SPEAKER_01: phase two, which we expect to be commissioned by 2030 should double capacity.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: That doubling, those are the opportunities that are there for investors now.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: And then in terms of risk,
23:10
SPEAKER_01: The first thing is margin and the high crux environment that we are in now.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: It's not exactly easy to predict.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: We can see that from 2027, we're expecting some more dreads.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: But what if it happens faster?
23:24
SPEAKER_01: So those are the risks that are peculiar in the refinery.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Basically, in terms of the cracks, the non-normal cracks that we've seen now.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: So if we see faster than normal,
23:34
SPEAKER_01: if the cracks normalize faster than we've expected, that poses a risk.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: And then also there's the execution risk.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: The plan is to commission the refinery in 2029.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: And then in our evaluation by BitConservative,
23:48
SPEAKER_01: we're saying that By 2030,
23:50
SPEAKER_01: that's when the second phase of the refinery is going to come.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: But what if that doesn't happen?
23:55
SPEAKER_01: What if there are delays and then some other things that can push the commissioning
24:00
SPEAKER_01: of the second phase further?
24:02
SPEAKER_01: So those are the risks that are peculiar to the refinery.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Devine.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: We definitely look forward to the project proceeding as per the agreed timelines.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for shedding light on the risks and opportunities.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: Now I want to transition back to Karimi.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: And now Karimi, we are looking at participation by East African investors.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: So somebody who's in Uganda,
24:26
SPEAKER_02: Tanzania, Rwanda,
24:28
SPEAKER_02: or just basically anywhere else in East Africa,
24:32
SPEAKER_02: how can they participate in this offer?
24:34
SPEAKER_02: What eligibility requirements apply?
24:37
SPEAKER_02: And...
24:38
SPEAKER_02: How can investors who are outside Kenya open accounts,
24:42
SPEAKER_02: make payments, and eventually trade their GDRs?
24:47
SPEAKER_00: The GDR is open to any investor who has access to the NSC.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: So even if you're South African,
24:56
SPEAKER_00: for example,
24:57
SPEAKER_00: or even you're a foreigner,
24:59
SPEAKER_00: as long as you trade on the NSC,
25:02
SPEAKER_00: this is open,
25:03
SPEAKER_00: but it's largely targeted and Is being marketed to
25:06
SPEAKER_00: the East African investor directly.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: So it would be the same process that we indicated that you would get onto
25:15
SPEAKER_00: the portal, open a CDS account.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: In order to open a CDS account, there's 13 KYC documents that will be requested of you.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: And then once you've done those and we do the background on each,
25:27
SPEAKER_00: depending on the broker you choose,
25:28
SPEAKER_00: because your broker or your investment bank is who is charged
25:32
SPEAKER_00: with confirming your KYC documentation.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: And then that can be open and you're able
25:37
SPEAKER_00: to buy like any other investor who's trading on the NSE.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for shedding light on that.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: Now on ownership rights and investor protection.
25:48
SPEAKER_02: So say I purchase Adangote GDR through the NSE.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: Who actually owns and holds the underlying shares in Nigeria?
25:56
SPEAKER_02: And what legal protections exist for GDR holders,
26:01
SPEAKER_02: especially if Say,
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Renaissance capital or the custodian encounters financial difficulties.
26:09
SPEAKER_02: Walk us through the ownership rights and how you're going about investor protection.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: So the ownership rights for the GDR holders are exactly as they would be for
26:21
SPEAKER_00: the ordinary shareholder.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: The GDR is a pass-through vehicle, so it's not a company, it's not a fund, it's a platform.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: So it's a pass-through platform that passes through all the rights attributed to
26:35
SPEAKER_00: the GDR to the underlying shareholder, same rights attributed to the GDR.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: For example,
26:42
SPEAKER_00: if Dangote has called for an AGM,
26:44
SPEAKER_00: we would be aware,
26:45
SPEAKER_00: and so we would call for a GDR holder's AGM prior to the Dangote AGM.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Do all that.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: And then the custodian would be then voted as the proxy.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: To represent the GDR holders at the actual AGM.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: In cases where you have rights issue,
27:04
SPEAKER_00: bonus issues,
27:05
SPEAKER_00: they would be passed through to each of the GDR holders as though they were holding
27:10
SPEAKER_00: the actual underlying shares.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: A dividend,
27:12
SPEAKER_00: the same thing with a small caveat that which shall be approved year and year
27:18
SPEAKER_00: from shareholders in terms of what's required to keep holding a custodial account,
27:24
SPEAKER_00: the regulatory costs.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: Those will be passed through to the holder.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: And the holders as part of the AGM would approve them.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: So when dividends are paid, that would be withheld and then dividends are paid directly.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: Now in Nigeria,
27:38
SPEAKER_00: Adangote has indicated that they pay dividends in dollars or in IRA because
27:46
SPEAKER_00: the GDI would be considered an institutional investor
27:49
SPEAKER_00: because those shares are being held in a custodial account in Nigeria.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: The UDR would receive dividends in dollars.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: This will be passed through to the holder.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Retail investors will receive dividends in Kez.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Institutional investors have the choice whether to receive dividends in Kez or in USD.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: So again, remember this is a pass-through vehicle.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: Anything that Rencap has signed as an issuer has signed and actually done
28:18
SPEAKER_00: a declaration of trust that all this is being done on behalf of the of
28:23
SPEAKER_00: the GDR holders.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's why the shares will be held by custodians, not Rencap.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: I think we've taken careful choice to make sure that the custodian is a strong,
28:34
SPEAKER_00: good balance sheet.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: So we do not expect them to get into financial crisis.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: But we never know if anything were to happen, we would handle that.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: But we really do not foresee that at
28:47
SPEAKER_02: Please walk us through withholding taxes,
28:50
SPEAKER_02: especially in Nigeria and Kenya.
28:53
SPEAKER_02: I know this is a question that people are quite interested about.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: So paint a picture on how we'd handle the taxation.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: So remember withholding tax is a final tax and it's usually taxed at source.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: So in this case,
29:07
SPEAKER_00: the withholding tax would be charged in Nigeria,
29:11
SPEAKER_00: in which case I believe it's 10% withholding tax.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: And that is the final withholding tax that's charged to that.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: The reason that is a final tax is because,
29:22
SPEAKER_00: again, the GDR is not a company, so it's not receiving the dividends as income.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: The GDR is not a fund,
29:30
SPEAKER_00: it's a pass-through platform and all the funds that come save for what
29:34
SPEAKER_00: the holder approves for the continual operations of the GDR platform will be passed
29:40
SPEAKER_00: on directly to investors.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Now, once the funds hit investors,
29:44
SPEAKER_00: I believe that's where personal responsibility comes in because it's
29:48
SPEAKER_00: as you would handle your normal dividend income.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: So if you're a company, you'd need to seek your own professional advice.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: But there is no extra withholding tax as a result of this structure.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: One of the key differences, again,
30:03
SPEAKER_00: why the GDR is preferably allowing me to say this,
30:07
SPEAKER_00: a better option than buying the shares directly,
30:10
SPEAKER_00: is that in Nigeria, there is a capital gains tax, CGT, of 30%.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: So if you've bought the shares directly,
30:19
SPEAKER_00: when you sell them,
30:20
SPEAKER_00: any yield you make, We'll be charged at 30% CGT, capital gains tax.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: If you buy this through the GDR,
30:29
SPEAKER_00: there is no capital gains tax because you will be trading on the NSC.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: One of the benefits of listing on the NSC is that we do not have CGT or the NSC.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: So if you're trading on the NSC, there is no CGT tax.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for that.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: So earlier you had said that the two shillings between the conversion in Kez
30:49
SPEAKER_02: and Naira Caters for some of the agency fees,
30:53
SPEAKER_02: brokerage commissions, and other charges, as well as FX.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: Can you walk us through that?
30:59
SPEAKER_02: Expound a bit more on that.
31:01
SPEAKER_02: What about brokerage commissions, custody charges, and FX conversion?
31:06
SPEAKER_00: For the offer price, all that is taken into consideration for the two shillings per share.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: And that's for the offer price.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Once the GDRs are listed on the NSC,
31:17
SPEAKER_00: then they'll be subject like any other share on the NSC with
31:20
SPEAKER_00: the regular commissions.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: So when you sell and buy, there's a broker commission fee.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Seller Commission, part of it that goes to regulatory.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: So it will be as you would with any other share on the NSE.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: But as of now,
31:35
SPEAKER_00: anything and all costs up until the listing have been catered for within the price
31:40
SPEAKER_00: that has been set.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: Now, let's go to secondary market trading and liquidity.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: GDR is expected to begin trading on the NSE in December.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: How will buying and selling work after listing and what arrangements are in place
31:57
SPEAKER_02: to support liquidity?
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Sorry to sound like a broken record, but the GGRs will trade like any other share.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: If you have Sepharicom shares,
32:07
SPEAKER_00: the way you normally trade them is exactly how the GGRs will trade.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: I know what the question that is at the back of everyone's mind is,
32:15
SPEAKER_00: but then how does this tie in?
32:17
SPEAKER_00: So remember, because you have the underlying share that's in the Nigerian market.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: So we have started with the NSE and come up with a pricing mechanism.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: And that every morning when the market's open,
32:30
SPEAKER_00: we'll recalculate to reflect the underlying shares in Nigeria.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: And then it'll continue.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: The beauty with having the two different tradings is that an investor
32:41
SPEAKER_00: in Kenya may have very different sentiments.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: To an investor in Nigeria.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: So you're able to trade on your GDRs in Kenya based on your sentiments.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: The Nigerian investor is able to trade on their shares based on their sentiments.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Now, for sure,
32:58
SPEAKER_00: whatever happens to the Nigerian shares will always have an effect on the price here
33:03
SPEAKER_00: because it's the underlying price.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: But it still allows the investor here to react as you do with any other shares based
33:12
SPEAKER_00: on news, based on economic outlook, as you would with any other share.
33:17
SPEAKER_02: So you've mentioned something that is quite fascinating.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: Of course, any movements in the Nigerian Naira will affect the Kenyan shilling for the trade.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: So maybe just paint a picture.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: How would movements in the Naira against the Kenyan shilling affect investors' returns?
33:33
SPEAKER_00: In terms of how will changes in the Naira affect the price here?
33:38
SPEAKER_00: The thing is, we do not see generally a lot of shift between the Naira and the shilling.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: Because remember, this conversion is not EUSD-Kenya.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: It's direct and that's why it's going through banks that are direct.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's Naira to Kenya shilling.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't have as wide movement as say Naira-USD.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: But that is also contemplated on in the pricing mechanism that have been worked out
34:04
SPEAKER_00: with the NSE.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: So how to readjust the price every morning, taking those into considerations.
34:11
SPEAKER_02: So could the GDRs trade at a premium or a discount to the underlying shares in Nigeria?
34:17
SPEAKER_02: And are investors able to convert their GDRs into ordinary Dangote shares?
34:24
SPEAKER_00: So yes, there is a possibility that the GDRs could trade at a premium.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: The rent cap is acting as market maker between the two markets.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's part of our fiduciary duty and what's required of us by the CME to try
34:37
SPEAKER_00: and keep that to as low and as market specific as possible.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: At this point in time, no, you cannot convert your GGRs into shares.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: However,
34:48
SPEAKER_00: should Dangote,
34:49
SPEAKER_00: the company choose to cross list,
34:52
SPEAKER_00: Or to list eventually the LAMU,
34:54
SPEAKER_00: because he said that at the launch we had,
34:56
SPEAKER_00: that once it's operational and stable, hopefully they can list it on the NSC.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Should either of those events happen,
35:03
SPEAKER_00: then yes,
35:03
SPEAKER_00: the GGRs will then definitely at that point be converted into direct shares.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: But in purposes of the functioning of the GGRs, no, investors cannot directly convert.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: And for Rencap acting as the market maker between the two markets,
35:18
SPEAKER_00: our role is also to ensure,
35:20
SPEAKER_00: for example,
35:21
SPEAKER_00: We are holding all the 57 million shares and suddenly there's more demand.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: And now the GDR is asking for more GDR.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: Then Rencap is able to go into the market in Nigeria and buy them from
35:35
SPEAKER_00: the secondary market to increase the GDR size and buy more.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: And that will always depend on supply and demand, which shall be passed on to the investors.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: So beyond currency risk.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: What other structural,
35:50
SPEAKER_02: regulatory and market risks could investors consider before participating?
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Remember the portal we said we've put in quite a bit of information.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: We've also put in there specifically a risk advisory note.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: Just because this is a GDR,
36:06
SPEAKER_00: even though investors are investing in the underlying shares,
36:10
SPEAKER_00: there is an added risk, which is a risk of an offshore.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, The underlying share is an offshore security.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: What that means is,
36:19
SPEAKER_00: should there be a dispute where investors want to take action,
36:25
SPEAKER_00: there's an added risk because now you're operating in a different jurisdiction.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: But the good thing is because you've gone through the regulators in each market,
36:33
SPEAKER_00: it's a big clear issue.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: So there's the added risk of offshore investing.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: There's the added risk effects, which I think is a bit clearer now.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: And then there's the added risk of the fact that the two markets,
36:48
SPEAKER_00: while Nigeria is the underlying market,
36:50
SPEAKER_00: we have no control per se in terms of what happens in that market.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: But that's why investing is a risk, yeah?
36:56
SPEAKER_00: We hope for the best and invest and try and make money while at it.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: And now we're looking at the future of cross-border investing in Africa.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: So looking beyond the Dangote refinery, GDR.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: So could GDRs become a practical way for East Africans to invest
37:16
SPEAKER_02: in companies listed elsewhere on the continent?
37:20
SPEAKER_02: And what does the future of this
37:21
SPEAKER_00: look like?
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Just a quick point from your earlier question.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: In terms of affecting investor returns,
37:28
SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to mention that While the share is trading in Naira,
37:32
SPEAKER_00: in Nigeria, and in cash, the company itself sells and operates in US dollars.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: So that kind of mitigates a bit of the risk to investor returns,
37:43
SPEAKER_00: because remember, then the company is paying dividends directly.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: So in terms of those returns,
37:49
SPEAKER_00: the fact that the company operates And does everything for its revenues,
37:53
SPEAKER_00: its costs, its expenses are largely in USD.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: That sort of mitigates a bit of that,
38:00
SPEAKER_00: of the risk to investor returns as a result of the company performance itself.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: But back to your question in terms of whether GDRs could become a practical way,
38:11
SPEAKER_00: I strongly believe they will.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: We have tried doing cross-listings.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: We are yet to achieve a true and proper cross-listing between markets.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: I know we've been trying also to set up the African exchange system,
38:25
SPEAKER_00: forget the protocol name for it.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: And that hasn't really worked out, again, because of the same issue of the plumbing.
38:34
SPEAKER_00: The NSC is operating on a different platform from, for example, let's say Morocco, from the JSC.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Again, you're operating with different regulations.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: There are different depths of capital and inflow of investors.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: So I honestly think GDR could be A big win with we could regularize raising capital
38:54
SPEAKER_00: from Africa to support Africa.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Interestingly,
38:59
SPEAKER_00: all regional capital markets transactions that Renaissance has been involved in,
39:05
SPEAKER_00: we have found that it's usually African capital that supports these issues.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: So while we do see a lot of foreign investment coming in and out,
39:14
SPEAKER_00: at the end of the day,
39:14
SPEAKER_00: during the IPOs,
39:16
SPEAKER_00: during the actual capital raising, African capital really just does support.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: So I think this could be a very practical way To look
39:25
SPEAKER_00: at capital raising going forward and which allows investors within Africa to tap
39:31
SPEAKER_00: into each other's markets.
39:33
SPEAKER_02: So what would it take to bring more Nigerian,
39:36
SPEAKER_02: South African or even other African companies to the NSC through similar structures?
39:41
SPEAKER_02: And what could this mean for the development of Kenya's capital markets?
39:46
SPEAKER_00: The real big question is to follow what investors are interested in.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think as long as it's very clear that Investors within a certain region or
39:55
SPEAKER_00: a certain place are interested in a particular stock.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: It makes it easier to use the GDR route.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: For example, in this case, at the end of the day, Renaissance capital removed the GDR issuer.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: By being the GDR issuer, we're taking quite a bit of risk on our balance sheet.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: In order to see more investment banks doing this across the continent,
40:18
SPEAKER_00: It will have to be a reading of what investors are looking for
40:21
SPEAKER_00: and what investors are willing to buy.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: So I think this is going to follow a lot more conversations
40:26
SPEAKER_00: that we're seeing coming,
40:28
SPEAKER_00: especially when we talk of infrastructure and how to support regional and especially
40:34
SPEAKER_00: within the private markets infrastructure.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure we'll see quite a bit more of this
40:40
SPEAKER_00: because limiting some infrastructure projects to just one pool
40:43
SPEAKER_00: of capital does limit growth.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: It's also for issues to be able to learn and to see how to sell their story.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: The one reason that we are all excited about Angot is because we all know who he is.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: We believe in his vision.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: We've seen him doing business.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: We've seen him grow.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: So he does leave the story that he actually tells.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: And so we have confidence.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: I believe if today Elon Musk did the same,
41:07
SPEAKER_00: we would have quite a few investors who would be takers of doing a thing in a GDR,
41:12
SPEAKER_00: for example.
41:13
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's also just being able to,
41:16
SPEAKER_00: and maybe this is a lesson for myself and for the other intermediaries
41:20
SPEAKER_00: who may be represented.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Just learning how to bridge the gap between investors and issuers.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: I think this is definitely a way forward,
41:29
SPEAKER_00: both for inward and for outward GDRs,
41:32
SPEAKER_00: so that tomorrow if there's an opportunity to set up a GDR for EABL in Nigeria,
41:38
SPEAKER_00: why not?
41:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure we'll see more of this happen.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Karimi.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: Now that we have come to the end of our conversation, a parting shot to our listeners.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, all of you, for your time.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: It's really an honor and a pleasure to be able to speak to people
41:56
SPEAKER_00: who are actually interested in what that means and what this could mean
42:00
SPEAKER_00: for capital markets.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: We are very open to hearing more from investors and curious
42:06
SPEAKER_00: about how we can find better ways to help businesses capitalize within Kenya and
42:12
SPEAKER_00: within the region and in Africa.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: So we look forward to being more engaged.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Mwango,
42:18
SPEAKER_00: for this opportunity to interact with Your followers and Niko for being such
42:23
SPEAKER_00: a gracious moderator.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: And if anyone is interested in reaching out to us,
42:29
SPEAKER_00: our contact information is also on the portal.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: So we will share through Mwango our contact information.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: And just to remind you all that the offer closes on October 27th at 1.00 AM.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: So that's next week on Tuesday.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: So we're looking forward to all of you.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: And just to also give you the confirmation.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: The company, the issuer has again reaffirmed them supporting the GDRs.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: They are giving a specific allocation to the GDRs.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: So as long as we're within that allocation, we expect everyone will get full allocation.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: It's already oversubscribed in Nigeria.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: So we think the better way to go is through the GDRs.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: But remember, please do apply before the 27th at 1 p.m.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
43:16
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Karimi.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for taking time to unpack this conversation for us.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: That has been Karimi Warui, who is the Head of Investment Banking at Renaissance Capital.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: And we also had Divine.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: Divine, just a parting shot to our listeners as we conclude this conversation.
43:35
SPEAKER_02: If we just slide part in the headline, Sean, our podcast.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: We will be happy to answer any questions,
43:42
SPEAKER_02: if anybody has any further questions, or if there is any information.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: You have been talking about the Dangote Refinery IPO,
43:51
SPEAKER_02: focusing on how East African and global depository receipts, how the GDLs work.
43:58
SPEAKER_02: The investment process,
43:59
SPEAKER_02: the offer structure,
44:00
SPEAKER_02: the pricing,
44:01
SPEAKER_02: investor risk,
44:02
SPEAKER_02: costs and protection,
44:04
SPEAKER_02: as well as what this means for us as a country and as a continent
44:09
SPEAKER_02: in capital markets.
44:10
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for joining this conversation.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much to our host and facilitator, Mwango Capitals.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: Kindly do follow Mwango for expert reports and analysis across
44:21
SPEAKER_02: the East African business and economic space.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: My name is Nicole Njuguna.
44:26
SPEAKER_02: I have been your moderator for this conversation.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: Even beyond this space, let us keep the conversation flowing.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: And remember that the deadline for this is 27th of October at 1 p.m.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: Have a good night.
44:42
SPEAKER_02: God bless.